[12:21] <vish> gah!!! "fileless" paradigm
[12:26] <darkmatter> vish: quit abusing the term paradigm or I'll be forced to slap you:P
[12:27] <vish> darkmatter: not me ;)  … it's being abused on Ayatana mailing list.. but i do hope you get to slap someone ;p
[12:27] <darkmatter> hehe
[12:31] <thorwil> vish: i for one can't wait to have all my stuff trapped in application specific databases and i'm not at all concerned about having to deal with both the filesystem and stuff on top of it. incremental backups are also no topic at all
[12:33] <vish> i'm not sure what they expect to result from that thread.. o.0
[12:36] <thorwil> vish: not everyone is that goal oriented. some enjoy traveling on a road to nowhere
[12:38] <darkmatter> goals are overrated, more duct tape!
[12:39] <vish> thorwil: well, travelling aimless is good, but is it necessary to force everyone to watch it/listen to it? ;)
[12:41] <thorwil> vish: forget about the ayatana list, or delete all mail without reading, except from a selected few senders or new ones
[12:42] <thorwil> vish: as you know what happens if you express being displeased about the running around in circles and argument for the sake of it
[12:43] <vish> yea, thats what i'v been doing.. i read if there was a response from someone specific..
[12:44] <vish> thorwil: i did try to break that thread in the early stages though! when it was something "File menu" , but fredrik revived it in it's new avatar as the fileless paradigm! ;p
[13:03] <doctormo> vish: Perhaps we need to get the adults together to talk about it some more
[13:03] <doctormo> It's a very interesting topic, but the ayatana mailing list thread is dumb.
[13:04] <vish> yea, the topic is interesting but i dont think it would be solved by discussing there. :s  hence i find their energy being misplaced/wasted..
[13:05] <doctormo> vish: What do you want to see?
[13:07] <vish> well, for starters some more solid discussions (though i deleted a lot from that thread) ;p
[13:10] <doctormo> vish: I meant what do you want?
[13:11] <vish> doctormo: oh no! not going into that topic.. ;)  i think we can stick with pushing the art-owl usage for UFS ;)
[13:11] <vish>  that would be much more productive and more in the present.. ;)
[13:11] <doctormo> :-)
[19:32] <thorwil> doctormo, vish: so we got mail
[19:33] <doctormo> thorwil: Yes I just read it
[19:33] <doctormo> Facinating
[19:33]  * vish checks mail..
[19:33] <thorwil> doctormo: almost manages to make me feel bad
[19:34] <doctormo> thorwil: It's a very good poolitical email
[19:35] <doctormo> thorwil: Don't feel bad, the email is designed to make you feel bad. I'm heading out right now but when I come back I will decypher it with you.
[19:36] <thorwil> doctormo: don't worry, that why i said "almost"
[20:17] <vish> sheesh!
[20:17] <vish> what a waste of time! :/
[20:17] <troy_s> vish: ?
[20:18] <vish> troy_s: john baer.. :/
[20:18] <troy_s> Oh gosh the drama.
[20:18] <vish> troy_s: thorwil sent him a mail asking him to explain his actions and very conveniently he side-stepped all those issue and copy-pasted COC !!
[20:19] <vish> meh..
[20:19] <troy_s> So what. Ignore him.
[20:19] <vish> yea..
[20:20] <troy_s> http://uxmag.com/strategy/the-importance-of-designing-an-experience-culture
[20:20] <vish> thorwil: you know we can remove him from the list, right?  only he needs to contact the council if he wants back in ;p
[20:20] <troy_s> vish: Bah. Bully with brilliance. Not bs.
[20:20] <thorwil> troy_s: ignoring him is a 'solution' only for an inner circle. all in all he would still be poison for the team (or any attempt at having/being one)
[20:21] <vish> troy_s: if he was worth even a fraction of the energy we spend on him, then there is a point in trying to outsmart him, or talk some sense into him..
[20:21] <troy_s> thorwil: Personal opinion, but I have always seen leadership as something that is earned. Having a challenge for leadership isn't a bad thing really. If it turns dark, the intelligent can decipher it.
[20:22] <troy_s> vish: I'd be more worried with the whole 'why bother'. Are there valuable people on that mailing list? I'd like to think there are...
[20:22] <vish> troy_s: nah, we have explained and any questions we asks he rarely has a reply
[20:23] <vish> ask*
[20:23] <troy_s> vish: Have faith for those with ability. If there is a serious worry about someone spooling off talent, then it should be at the merits of that talent.
[20:23] <troy_s> vish: Don't sweat it.
[20:23] <vish> ;)
[20:23] <troy_s> (Great article by the way)
[20:24] <troy_s> (Should read it)
[20:25] <vish> if someone posted such articles to the list would be nice too ;) <hint>
[20:25] <thorwil> vish: if you get 2 receipts from me, it's because evolution crashed when it was supposed to send the first one
[20:25] <vish> cool..
[20:25] <troy_s> thorwil: What is this Evolution?
[20:25] <vish> lol!
[20:26] <vish> troy_s: seriouslY ?
[20:26] <troy_s> vish: AlwayS.
[20:26] <thorwil> troy_s: evolution is a terrible mail client that i would get rid of, if it wasn't for my archive of mail and address book
[20:26] <troy_s> vish: I get the feeling it is a useless bag of behind-the-times client for email, but it has been such a long time since I cared.
[20:26] <troy_s> ;)
[20:26] <vish> ;)
[20:27] <troy_s> vish: Secret: IMAP. Gmail.
[20:27] <thorwil> really, it's a shame that it is the default for ubuntu
[20:27] <vish> thorwil: probably by the next LTS it would be gone
[20:27] <vish> TB
[20:27] <troy_s> thorwil: Not really. It is a perfect flag bearer. Warding off all.
[20:28] <thorwil> you could as well have dog poo as recommendation  in a bakery
[20:29] <troy_s> vish: To be brutally honest, I used to concern myself with email clients. Then I gave Chrome a try and well... as much as I was skeptical, I can see it replacing many, many, many pieces of software.
[20:29] <vish> boo, chrome is over-rated
[20:29] <vish> FF4 is good, much better than Chrome can ever be..
[20:29] <troy_s> vish: And in the bigger picture in terms of cross platform ability to migrate (short of the lovely barriers all around us regarding content - perhaps the biggest threat to Libre), it is nothing short of a huge win.
[20:29] <troy_s> vish: You clearly don't use Chrome. lol.
[20:30] <troy_s> vish: The simple boot up time alone is shockingly desireable.
[20:30] <troy_s> desirable even.
[20:30] <vish> troy_s: yea, i used it, but my FF is totally pimped out and there is no easy way for me to replace it ;)
[20:31] <vish> troy_s: try FF with Bartab plugin, it beats Chrome any day
[20:31] <vish> FF loads in a flash..
[20:31] <troy_s> vish: Sure. And by the time it loads I've already finished what I needed to do.
[20:31] <troy_s> rubbish.
[20:32] <troy_s> vish: At any rate, how about something interesting in art / design land?
[20:32] <troy_s> anything?
[20:32] <vish> troy_s: is there a remote possibility of a culture growing so soon? unless we try the petri dish ;)
[20:32] <troy_s> CUT TO: Crickets chirping and a tumbleweed rolling by.
[20:33] <troy_s> vish: I think so. I suppose it depends on visions of that culture. I tend to like people from different regions that happen to also speak my native tongue as they can read articles and such in other languages far faster and translate far superior than I.
[20:33] <thorwil> troy_s: wonder what you think of http://www.flickr.com/photos/vladstudio/5260045459/in/pool-uawt-6
[20:34] <troy_s> vish: Part of the myopia and fundamentalist / absolutist thinking around these parts is precisely because the alternate cultures don't have the agency to participate and voice the alternate viewpoints.
[20:34] <troy_s> vish: Sure.
[20:35] <vish> i guess that 'sure' was for thorwil ^ :)
[20:35] <thorwil> vish: but you can have it ;)
[20:36] <troy_s> vish: Nope. For the wallpaper. I don't really have much to say. It's a very well stylized and executed anteater.
[20:36] <vish> ^for thorwil gain ;)
[20:36] <vish> +a
[20:37] <troy_s> vish: Plus A.
[20:37] <troy_s> ?
[20:37] <vish> nah, i meant to say 'again'..
[20:37] <thorwil> troy_s: to turn gain into again
[20:37] <thorwil> quite a loss, actually
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: Yes. I'm completely lost.
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: Sorry?
[20:37] <thorwil> wtf
[20:37] <vish> oh i should sleep i guess , i'm getting more typos than usual ;p
[20:38] <vish> troy_s: thorwil was the one who asked about the wallpapers ;p
[20:38] <troy_s> vish: Oh balls.
[20:38] <troy_s> thorwil: Sorry thor... color code was the same.
[20:39] <thorwil> yeah, highlighting should leave out the nick
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: Odd... now you are different again.
[20:39] <troy_s> How strange.
[20:40] <troy_s> thorwil: I suppose I don't really know what to 'think'. Just end up disassembling things for no apparent reason. Or not. It just 'is', as it were.
[20:40]  * vish forwards troy_s' link to the list.. ;)
[20:49]  * thorwil found origami and common lisp much more interesting than ubuntu-artwork, today
[20:54] <thorwil> vish: wise canadian, eh? :)
[20:55] <vish> thorwil: well, let's just keep fattening the turkey ;)
[20:56] <thorwil> =8-)
[20:57] <vish> finally got a new expression out of you! ;p
[20:59] <troy_s> Wait. I hate you both.
[20:59] <troy_s> vish: GAH.
[21:01] <thorwil> http://design.canonical.com/2010/12/design-museum-exhibition-london/
[21:01] <vish> troy_s: well, the mailing list is booooooooooooooring! atleast something new happened there , thanks to you ;)
[21:02] <troy_s> thorwil: That's fantastic.
[21:02] <vish> lol!  the first reply!
[21:02] <vish> where did the M really go?
[21:03] <thorwil> it's a - wait for it - Mystery!
[21:03] <vish> the comment rather..
[21:03] <troy_s> vish: Maybe out with the Mentally Miniscule.
[21:03] <troy_s> That is fantastic. Now if only the home team can get into the London Design Museum.
[21:05] <troy_s> ???
[21:05] <troy_s> Charline is the uX lead now?
[21:05] <troy_s> Eikes.
[21:06] <thorwil> i don't actually no if that is new
[21:06] <thorwil> know, even
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: I thought she was research only.
[21:07] <troy_s> thorwil: Seems like an odd choice. And don't get me wrong, I'd be the first to tout the merits of anthropology in design and such. But it just seems... odd.
[21:12] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:17] <troy_s> vish: You got any new work partner?