[02:42] <Visiblejunk> you guys in the cities then?
[02:43] <Takyoji> Faribault, for me
[02:43] <Takyoji> Most are in the cities it seems, yes
[02:43] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, most are.
[02:44] <Visiblejunk> cool, I just installed ubuntu and am figuring out the basic stuff
[02:44] <Takyoji> Woo
[02:44] <Visiblejunk> not as much command line as I thought
[02:44] <tonyyarusso> AlphaCluster spends some of his time here, some near Bemidji, ripps is in Duluth, not actually sure about a number of other people here atm.
[02:44] <tonyyarusso> not really, no
[02:44] <Takyoji> Command line usage is a very big misconception
[02:44] <tonyyarusso> I use a command line a lot, but you certainly don't *have* to - I just like to.
[02:44] <Takyoji> It seems when you say "Linux" people think "command line"
[02:44] <Visiblejunk> yeah it seems like everything can be done in gui
[02:45] <Visiblejunk> well yeah i have been trying to ... like see how it works
[02:45] <Visiblejunk> you guys running compiz at all?
[02:45] <Visiblejunk> I think I'd have to mess with my drivers to get it to work
[02:46] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, but just the default effects.
[02:47] <Visiblejunk> so I have been looking throught stuff and learned of the "man" command then I did man net in terminal
[02:48] <Visiblejunk> reading that made me think you could hack the shit outta someone
[02:48] <Visiblejunk> is that what people use to do that then?
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> (Careful with the language)
[02:48] <tonyyarusso> There are various things, depending on what you're trying to do.
[02:49] <tonyyarusso> Most of the people here are in the business of blocking network attacks though, not committing them.
[02:49] <Visiblejunk> yeah understandable, but that had warnings galour
[02:49] <Visiblejunk> right, need to know how they work before you could block I'm guessing though
[02:50] <Visiblejunk> so like what is there to do in linux that you can't do in windows that noobs don't know about
[02:51] <tonyyarusso> Well, there are a lot of things that you *can* do in Windows, but are WAY easier in Linux, like running a web/mail/caching/ftp/etc. server.
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> And various sorts of software development.
[02:52] <Visiblejunk> even while running your desktop then
[02:52] <Visiblejunk> yeah thats why i installed
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> And, you know, browsing the web without getting a billion viruses.
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> sure.
[02:52] <Visiblejunk> hmmm
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> If you get into the command line stuff, the text processing tools are awesome.
[02:53] <Obsidian1723> hey tony, in fense of the CLUI, many Linux applications are merely GTK front-ends for command line programs. On that same note, often times features available in the CLUI are not available in the GUI, thus the CLUI is better. You can also script for the CLUI, something you cannot for the GUI.
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> (although also available on Windows through things like Cygwin)
[02:53] <Visiblejunk> i guess running a server would be cool, but what are the benefits these days when I have tons of space on a gmail account
[02:53] <Obsidian1723> If you are going to admin in Linux, you need the CLUI. Period.
[02:53] <Visiblejunk> clui =? command line user interface ???
[02:54] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: No, if you're going to admin *efficiently*, you need the CLI.  You can do it either way, it's just easier if you know your way around commands.
[02:54] <Obsidian1723> Well, there are things that cannot be done i nthe gui.
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: Well, for one, I'm currently chatting with you from a server in New Jersey that is on 24/7, so I never log off.
[02:54] <Obsidian1723> iptables for instance. gufw or firestarter or even fwbuilder, severely lack.
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> There are also web sites there.
[02:55] <Visiblejunk> hmm ok yeah haha, i was talking about the FTP kind of servers i suppose
[02:55] <Obsidian1723> Like as part of my ubuntu install script for a desktop, I configure iptables all from the CLUI.
[02:56] <Visiblejunk> what made me install ubuntu was when comcast went out and the cause was DNS servers and I had no idea about that and wanted to know more about the net
[02:57] <Obsidian1723> Right on...
[02:57] <Visiblejunk> so... is my assumption that linix or unix people made the net... correct?
[02:57] <Visiblejunk> i mean more or less
[02:57] <Obsidian1723> Actually DARPA and the NSF made it.
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> Well, sort of?
[02:57] <Visiblejunk> yeah but linux made it usable for consumers
[02:57] <Visiblejunk> right?
[02:58] <tonyyarusso> DARPA and NSF did it, but it was developed at the same time as Unix, and used Unix to work, so they were pretty hand-in-hand.
[02:58] <tonyyarusso> Linux didn't come around until 1991.
[02:58] <Obsidian1723> UNIX for the back-end, Windows desktop for the end-user.
[02:58] <tonyyarusso> (and wasn't really usable for another ten years after that)
[02:58] <Obsidian1723> When the web could do images in 1991/92 was when it blew up.
[02:59]  * Obsidian1723 started on the net in '78.
[02:59] <Visiblejunk> right thats the basics, how does one go about learning the details
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> Visible, if you are new to networking, checkout Hobbes Internet TIme Line for an overall history of the Net, and also learn the basics of networking, the OSI Model, etc. That will give you a good foundation to start with.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: You're enough of an old fart to appreciate this - the guy who invented the "Reply" button in e-mail was over at my house a few days ago for dinner.
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> You learn the basics first.
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> Nice!!
[03:00] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Who was that?
[03:01] <Obsidian1723> Visible, you can't understand ATM, MPLS, Load-balancing, etc unless you know how TCP/IP works, how the OSI works, etc.
[03:01] <Visiblejunk> whats the etc? I'm seriously taking notes
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#From_SNDMSG_to_MSG
[03:01] <Obsidian1723> a lot man, a hell of a lot.
[03:02] <Visiblejunk> TCP/IP where is the playground for that then
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> tony RFC 822
[03:02] <Visiblejunk> what do you play around with
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> Sept 1980
[03:02] <Visiblejunk> to understand it
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> Me?
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: yup
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> Dude, I grew up with it. Started in 78 at age 11. Im 43, I have 32 years of living with it as stuff was created.
[03:02] <Visiblejunk> yeah sure, what do you play with to learn the TCP/IP and OSI stuff
[03:03] <Visiblejunk> haha
[03:03] <Visiblejunk> your that guy
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> I read?
[03:03] <Takyoji> Wireshark is a useful tool
[03:03] <Takyoji> and reading of course
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> nmap too
[03:03] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Although I see it labeled as August 1982.
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> Maybe I'm thinking of another one> Lotsa rfcs
[03:04] <Obsidian1723> Visible, gets some stuff for the Network+ course
[03:04] <Obsidian1723> buy that book, that covers a lot.
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> tony wireshark is good, etherape, etc. I'm a fan of namp, you can mape out an entire network with it. By using zenmap for the GUI front-end, you can even export to a JPEG of the network, save it, edit it, etc...
[03:05] <Visiblejunk> what book? is it called Network+
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> Good stuff.
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, CompTIA Network+
[03:06] <Visiblejunk> yeah well i should tell you my background ... I have a degree in math and stats and have learned a bit about the RSA algorithm
[03:07] <Visiblejunk> so kind of learning how that stuff works is interesting to me
[03:07] <Visiblejunk> you know RSA then?
[03:08] <Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/CTRL%2BALT%2BDelete%20Creator.flv <--tony
[03:08] <Obsidian1723> What about RSA?
[03:08] <tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: If you're looking for some background reading, some good (and huge) texts on the subject:  http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networks-5th-Andrew-Tanenbaum/dp/0132126958/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1293678268&sr=1-2 , http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networking-Top-Down-Approach-5th/dp/0136079679/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678421&sr=1-1 , ...
[03:08] <Obsidian1723> I use it often to get into government machines.
[03:08] <tonyyarusso> ... http://www.amazon.com/Network-Networks-Networking-Course-Technology/dp/1423902459/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678455&sr=1-1 , http://www.amazon.com/Practice-System-Network-Administration-Second/dp/0321492668/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678495&sr=1-1 , http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Linux-System-Administration-Handbook/dp/0131480057/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293678495&sr=1-3
[03:08] <Obsidian1723> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/CTRL%2BALT%2BDelete%20Creator.flv <--tony
[03:09] <Visiblejunk> haha yeah right
[03:09] <Visiblejunk> if it isn't secure, thats what I want to learn, so if you get around it thats cool man
[03:09] <Obsidian1723> yeah right what?
[03:10] <Obsidian1723> Nothing is 100% secure. Security is not a pieceo f hardware or software. It is not a setting. It is a mindset. A way of thinking, acting and being 24/7/365.
[03:10] <tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: Alternatively, just buy me the first and last books on that list, and I'll lend them to you ;)  (I have 2, 3, and 4 already)
[03:11] <Visiblejunk> from my understanding you would have to install something on the system that encrypts the message to figure out the decryption code
[03:11] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: 365.25
[03:11] <Visiblejunk> by something i  mean a keylogger probly
[03:12] <Visiblejunk> can you torrent those books or are they too obscure
[03:12] <Obsidian1723> Well, usually with RSA there is a fob, and thatchanges every so often. Youd need to know the algorithim.
[03:12] <tonyyarusso> They're certainly not obscure, but we don't discuss illegal filesharing on this network.
[03:12] <Obsidian1723> If you want to hack crypotography, you STILL need to know the basics first.
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> You can probably buy them in e-book form though.
[03:13] <Visiblejunk> haha for sure, i don't expect instant gratification
[03:13] <Obsidian1723> :D
[03:13] <Visiblejunk> just looking for something to learn about long term
[03:14] <Visiblejunk> because as a math guy, you set in on a lecture and they show you a proof of the time it would take to break the algoritm
[03:14] <Visiblejunk> and after that lecture you think its unbreakable, but there must be ways around it
[03:14] <Obsidian1723> Start with the basics, go from there. what is your end goal? Security? Databases? just knowledge overall or a speciality?
[03:15] <Visiblejunk> well if I could understand RSA in its application that would be cool
[03:16] <Visiblejunk> the chaulk board is a lot different from a computer
[03:19] <Obsidian1723> yeah but you cant understand that until you understand the other stuff.
[03:21] <Visiblejunk> sweet, so i'll be working on these books for a while then I'm guessing
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> yuppers.
[03:22] <Visiblejunk> you guys on here a lot, if I had a question about something would it be bothersome to ask it then?
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> I'd suggerst Network+ > Linux+ > Security+
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> yup
[03:22] <Obsidian1723> then CCNA
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> If tonyyarusso if offline, something's probably wrong :P
[03:22] <Visiblejunk> yup as in bothersome..? hah
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> (If I'm not here physically, it will be logged and I can reply later.)
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> oh, no.  to the "on here a lot"
[03:23] <Visiblejunk> thats dedication man
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> There are also a bunch of other channels, like ##networking, that may interest you.
[03:24] <Visiblejunk> haha yeah i'll check them out, I just came here since I saw a bunch of local channels and looked up minne
[03:27] <Visiblejunk> is there another layer to this server, since I looked on the logs, at least for today it was pretty bare until I came on here and started asking stuff
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> This particular channel is usually somewhat slow, but other channels can be quite the opposite (#ubuntu, for instance).
[03:30] <Visiblejunk> how many members do you guys have? any particular projects you work on or goals?
[03:31] <Takyoji> Nothing in specific currently
[03:31] <Takyoji> Would like to; but just have to get people active, and get people.
[03:33] <Obsidian1723> tony did you ever hook up with free geek?
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: not so far :S
[03:34] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Somebody certainly could, but I haven't had a chance personally.
[03:34] <Obsidian1723> ah.. figured itd be a good partnership.
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: You'll find some stuff in the beginnings of outlining on Launchpad and the Wiki, but nothing's really taken off much yet.
[03:37] <Visiblejunk> yeah i was just reading that
[03:37] <Obsidian1723> visible, after you get the basics down and then some, maybe look at pen testing.
[03:38] <Obsidian1723> Sounds like your area.
[03:38] <Visiblejunk> gonna need to elaborate or wait for me to goodle that one
[03:38] <Visiblejunk> google*
[03:38] <tonyyarusso> pen = penetration, ie network vulnerability testing
[03:38] <Obsidian1723> penetration testing
[03:38] <Takyoji> http://freegeektwincities.org/
[03:38] <Visiblejunk> haha i swear i was going to ask that
[03:39] <Visiblejunk> like is that the point of it being open source
[03:39] <Visiblejunk> to look for weakness and fix it
[03:39] <Obsidian1723> Ever see BackTrack?
[03:39] <Visiblejunk> nope
[03:39] <Obsidian1723> or if you like Gnome, GnackTrack
[03:39] <Obsidian1723> It's for vunerablity testing
[03:39] <Visiblejunk> (still new to this os) is the gnome the gui version and backtrack the command line
[03:40] <Obsidian1723> BackTrack has a GUI, just not in Gnome
[03:40] <Takyoji> GNOME is the desktop environment
[03:40] <Obsidian1723> In Linux, you have ther kernel, the core of the OS, then you have applications surrounding it, all command line.
[03:40] <Visiblejunk> yeah thats what ive come to gather, but its a bit deeper awnser im sure
[03:40] <Takyoji> other desktop environments include KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and much more
[03:41] <Visiblejunk> how many lines of code is the kernal?
[03:41] <Obsidian1723> On top of that, you have Widow Server like XFree86, X.org
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> "Lots"
[03:41] <Visiblejunk> or is it even code at all
[03:41] <Takyoji> Couple billions I believe
[03:41] <Visiblejunk> is it human or machine at that level?
[03:41] <Obsidian1723> on top of that, Window managers like FWVM, Metacity etc
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> Are we into billions?  I don't think we're into billions...
[03:41] <Obsidian1723> on top of that desktop environments, like KDE, XFCE, Enlightenment, Gnome, etc
[03:41] <Visiblejunk> i know doom 3 engine was millions
[03:41] <Obsidian1723> No, 3 million I believe.
[03:42] <Obsidian1723> Not billions
[03:42] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: 13.5 million in 2.6.35, according to Wikipedia.
[03:42] <Visiblejunk> is there a good visual of the hierchy of the os?
[03:42] <Obsidian1723> Google FHS
[03:42] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:42] <Obsidian1723> that shows the File Hierarchy System
[03:42] <tonyyarusso> 324 million in all of Debian 5 "lenny", however they're measuring that.
[03:42] <Obsidian1723> but whaty ou want is probably deeper than that...
[03:42] <Takyoji> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard
[03:43] <Takyoji> Personally I've been wanting to have some project to diagram the structure of a Linux distro and so on
[03:43] <Takyoji> Like of how all the components relate with each other
[03:44] <Obsidian1723> Linux is a modular OS, vs Windows which is monolithic. When you look at Linux, realize it's more than just a technical deal. It's not only technical, sure, that's the end result of the beginning, which is a philosophy of design, the implmentation of it is the pilitical and technical side, with technical being the result.\
[03:44] <Visiblejunk> can someone send you a link on here that says like wikipedia.org/bahaha/blah but it's really meatspin or something???
[03:45] <Obsidian1723> Linux is Linux. Its those political, design philosophies that vary.
[03:45] <Visiblejunk> i got everything out of that cept "pilitical"
[03:45] <Obsidian1723> political
[03:45] <Visiblejunk> haha right
[03:45] <tonyyarusso> Careful now - Linux is a monolithic kernel, but a modular OS :P
[03:45] <Obsidian1723> You can add or remove modules to the kernel. Its modular.
[03:45] <Takyoji> Wikipedia will chop you up and serve you as burgers for such spammery
[03:46] <Visiblejunk> so in lamens, linux is legos building a shape and windows is one block carved out into shape
[03:46] <Takyoji> Yus
[03:46] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: "Modular operating systems such as OS-9 and most modern monolithic operating systems such as OpenVMS, Linux, BSD (and its flavors FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD), and UNIX variants such as SunOS, and AIX, in addition to MULTICS, can dynamically load (and unload) executable modules at runtime. This modularity of the operating system is at the binary (image) level and not at the architecture level. Modular monolithic ...
[03:46] <tonyyarusso> ... operating systems are not to be confused with the architectural level of modularity inherent in Server-Client operating systems (and its derivatives sometimes marketed as hybrid kernel) what use microkernels and servers (not to be mistaken to modules or daemons)."
[03:46] <Takyoji> There's so much more variety in Linux
[03:46] <tonyyarusso> Linux is a monolithic kernel.
[03:47] <tonyyarusso> (pedantry!)
[03:47] <Obsidian1723> Visible, for example..... Debian is free. they want only free software, and yes, you can add mp3 support to Debian, but with some work. Its not their goal to really support that or have Debian's users desire it. Contributers to Debioan are coders mainly, whereas with Ubuntu, a fork of Debian, anytone can contribute. Ubuntu's code is based off of Debian's of course, but with easier support for non-free software.
[03:47] <Takyoji> I have yet to see someone write their own desktop environment for Windows.
[03:47] <Obsidian1723> tony I guess we are aruging semantics then :D
[03:48] <Obsidian1723> You cant really write that for Windows since youd have to replace so much of Windows that you cant ever see.
[03:48] <Obsidian1723> You can replace teh shell, modify things, but never replace them in Windows.
[03:48] <Takyoji> One thing I never really understood until like 1-2 years later was the different between open source and free software (as per Free Software Foundation)
[03:48] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: KDE runs on Windows these days.
[03:48] <Visiblejunk> yeah, so in linux if you don't like something very specific it is realistic that you could alter it..?
[03:49] <Obsidian1723> Well, Open vs Free is a political thing, like GNU/Linix vs Linux.
[03:49] <Visiblejunk> i know that, thats not technical or hard to understand
[03:49] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Dude, this is IRC - like 80% of conversations are arguing semantics!
[03:49] <Obsidian1723> For all Stallman is for with software, his main concern isn't software at all, but at his core, he is about freedom overall.
[03:49] <Obsidian1723> hahaha true that tiny, but in what way do you mean, "arguing smenatics"? ;)
[03:49] <Takyoji> Well, there are distinctions.
[03:49] <Obsidian1723> tony, I meant
[03:50] <Visiblejunk> he said seman haha
[03:50] <Takyoji> Open source is about having source code available and editable. Free software is about persistence of that freedom.
[03:50] <Visiblejunk> got it
[03:50] <Obsidian1723> Still, I think people can get too caught up in the minutuae and miss the larger picture of things, be it religion, software, anything.
[03:50] <Takyoji> BSD licenses are OSI-approved, but not considered "free software"
[03:50] <Obsidian1723> right
[03:51] <Takyoji> In the end, it's really all about spreading Communism and Linux zealotry. :D
[03:51] <Obsidian1723> YES!!!
[03:51] <Visiblejunk> so back to the point, they are both monolithic then?
[03:51] <Obsidian1723> Windows yes, Linux no.
[03:51] <Visiblejunk> hrurm reread time
[03:51] <Takyoji> Don't you mean the opposite?
[03:52] <Takyoji> Also, isn't Windows like a hybrid of two structures?
[03:52] <Obsidian1723> no
[03:52] <tonyyarusso> uhhhhh, BSD licenses are totally free software.  Just not FSF-friendly.
[03:52] <Takyoji> Ooo, diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_kernel
[03:52] <Obsidian1723> Windows started out as a GUI which ran on top of DOS, back in the Windows 3xx days
[03:52] <Obsidian1723> well, before that too of course
[03:52] <Takyoji> When I say "free software" I'm referring to the FSF definition. :P
[03:53] <Takyoji> FREE AS IN FREEDOM, NOT FREE BEER!
[03:53] <Takyoji> You alcoholics..
[03:53] <Obsidian1723> You ran MS-DOS, and if you wanted or needed to, you could boot Windows, but you didn't NEED to boot Windows until Windows95.
[03:53] <Takyoji> :P
[03:53] <Visiblejunk> myst and duke3d days you mean..?
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: "A free license may also permit other ways of releasing them; in other words, it does not have to be a copyleft license. However, a license that requires modified versions to be nonfree does not qualify as a free license. "
[03:53]  * Obsidian1723 still has a copy of Windows 3.1.1.
[03:53] <Visiblejunk> was there other gui's for pc's that booted from dos?
[03:54] <Obsidian1723> Not that I remember. for al ong time, no one used a GUI.
[03:54] <Obsidian1723> Linux is like DOS on acid.
[03:54] <Visiblejunk> save that for the race war zombie apocolyspe , might come in handy
[03:54] <Takyoji> Not from DOS
[03:54] <Takyoji> What was of OS/2?
[03:54] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: That's from the FSF Free Software Definition article, btw.
[03:54] <Obsidian1723> When I started out, MS was a 3 year old company hahaha
[03:55] <Takyoji> Why didn't you blow up their HQ then? D:<
[03:55] <Visiblejunk> ok skeletor
[03:55] <Obsidian1723> had I of known............
[03:56] <Obsidian1723> besides, watching that assclown Ballmer is fun.,
[03:56] <Takyoji> Why oh why did Sun have to buy VirtualBox, and then Oracle buy Sun?
[03:56] <Obsidian1723> VB 4 is out now...
[03:56] <Takyoji> Was MySQL originally independent, or was it a product of Sun?
[03:56] <Takyoji> I know, I installed it last night
[03:57] <Obsidian1723> me too
[03:57] <Takyoji> I laugh at how Ballmer reacts at things
[03:57] <Obsidian1723> I met that guy once.
[03:57] <Takyoji> When he laughs at competition, say's they're (Microsoft) better, but the competitor prevails. xP
[03:57] <Obsidian1723> wack job
[03:57] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[03:57] <Visiblejunk> its all about the confidence man
[03:57] <Takyoji> They still can't even get an iPad imitation out yet. xP
[03:57] <Visiblejunk> lol
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: MySQL was originally independent, a project of Monty Widenhaus.  He sold it either directly to Sun or possibly through another step.  Monty is now the head of Monty Program AB, the firm behind the MariaDB fork.
[03:58] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:58] <Visiblejunk> yeah ms is not the future... or so it looks atm
[03:58] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: (also, mneptok works for M.P. AB)
[03:58] <Takyoji> MariaDB; that's..
[03:58]  * Takyoji tries to remember the correct term
[03:58] <Takyoji> A non-relational database, with MySQL as the backend, yus?
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> No.
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> Not at all.
[03:59] <Obsidian1723> Did you hear the latest? That are taking WindowsCE for the portability factor, ME for the simplicitic hardware support, and finally NT for the robust nature, and combining it all ine one cohesive OS to be called WindowsCE-M-ENT. Of course it will be so heavy, I doubt it will ever boot up.
[03:59] <Visiblejunk> do you guys ever meet in person?
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> MariaDB is the MySQL code, minus the MySQL trademark, plus patches.
[03:59] <tonyyarusso> occasionally, yes.
[03:59] <Takyoji> I've heard that gag before. :P
[03:59] <Takyoji> ahh; didn't know
[04:00] <Visiblejunk> hmm any upcoming?
[04:00] <tonyyarusso> There's a LUG in the Twin Cities area that has significant overlap with this group that meets once a month at TIES in St. Paul.
[04:00] <Takyoji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mojgIVwQqaQ
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> Google for "Penguins Unbound".  If you follow the mailing list, the guy who runs it is Brian Dolan-Goecke, and he sends announcements a little bit ahead of time.
[04:01] <tonyyarusso> We'll probably organize LoCo events for the next releast in April if nothing else before then.
[04:01] <Takyoji> Anyway, as I was saying; anyone think Unity is like Windows 7 and Mac OS X in one? :P
[04:01] <Takyoji> (earlier)
[04:01] <Obsidian1723> what do ya think of wayland?
[04:02] <Takyoji> Is Wayland the X11 replacement; also to be in 11.04, or?
[04:02] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[04:02] <tonyyarusso> I don't think Natty has it though.
[04:02] <Takyoji> Kind of pathetic that Unity seems to require 3D graphics acceleration..
[04:03] <Takyoji> When I was running it in Virtualbox, it complained about such, and just booted a normal GNOME environment
[04:03] <Takyoji> But when I installed guest additions, and enabled 3d graphics acceleration, it did load when I restarted.
[04:03] <Visiblejunk> ok that whole nascar reference reminds me of this video, all of you if you are proper minnesotan yanks will die watching this
[04:03] <Visiblejunk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z0Z0WhL2aE
[04:04] <Obsidian1723> wayland is the x.org replacement, probably post 12.04LTS, but supposedly, Fedora 15 will have it.
[04:04] <Obsidian1723> code is still too wet, like Unity.
[04:05] <Takyoji> But yea, I'm definitely all for Wayland
[04:05] <Takyoji> Since I do believe that would be very nice for energy-efficiency
[04:05] <Obsidian1723> Wyalnd with Compiz heheh
[04:05] <Obsidian1723> sweet
[04:05] <Takyoji> rather than piping an X session through the network stack..
[04:06] <tonyyarusso> The idea is interesting, but a) getting the drivers to work will be hell, and b) really?  Is there nothing else broken that we should bother fixing first?
[04:06] <Obsidian1723> who knows...
[04:07] <Obsidian1723> I think for things to crow, to be innovative, change must happen in a major way.
[04:07] <Obsidian1723> grow
[04:15] <Takyoji> Got a kick out of the video
[04:16] <Visiblejunk> haha yeah isn't it ridic
[04:16] <Takyoji> otherwise I think it should be possible of having some X11/Wayland abstraction layer
[04:16] <Visiblejunk> no one would blink an eye at you here, maybe a stare or two lol
[04:17] <Takyoji> and man I haven't seen Brainiac in a long time
[04:18] <Takyoji> (I believe one of the folks in the video was/is the host for Brainiac)
[04:19] <Visiblejunk> hmm no idea what that is ...
[04:20] <Takyoji> I shall show you
[04:23] <Takyoji> It's pretty much like "British MythBusters": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QheJ2Gc9l2c
[04:23] <Visiblejunk> ahh cool, hey you on the mailing list for this penguins unbound?
[04:23] <Visiblejunk> you make a user name or something
[04:23] <Takyoji> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yex063_Fblk
[04:24] <Takyoji> They sometimes just post to the ubuntu-us-mn mailing list whenever there's an event hosted by Penguins Unbound
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> Visiblejunk: PU doesn't have it's own mailing list - they use the one for the now-largely-defunct TCLUG and ours.
[04:25] <Obsidian1723> TCLUG is defunct?
[04:26] <Takyoji> I believe so
[04:27] <Obsidian1723> bummer
[04:28] <Visiblejunk> hmmm so how do I get on the mailing list?
[04:29] <Takyoji> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mn
[04:39] <Visiblejunk> i think im on the mailing list, how often does something interesting come up on it
[04:42] <tonyyarusso> Depends on how often you post something interesting ;)
[05:20] <Visiblejunk> there is a whole section of the internet that id say 90% of guys would find interesting ; )
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> uh, no.
[05:27] <Visiblejunk> no sense of humor
[06:05] <Takyoji> I think we really should also advocate the IPv6 transition as well
[06:05] <Takyoji> since I don't think anyone in Minnesota (as of activists) of doing anything about it
[06:06] <tonyyarusso> Why would you need activists for that?
[22:56] <Takyoji> Anyone else agree that the most companies that release open source and proprietary versions, usually overly-cripple the open source version, and really shove the proprietary version?
[22:57] <Takyoji> Good lord SugarCRM's open source version is so over-commercialized. It's like the whole thing is a big advertisement for the "enterprise quality" (proprietary) version; at least like 7 or so times.
[22:57] <Takyoji> "Hay look, we're open source, we care! :DDD"
[22:58] <tonyyarusso> probably true
[23:05] <rlaager> Takyoji: Patch out the ads in the Debian package then. ;)
[23:05] <rlaager> But yeah, that sort of behavior is annoying.
[23:06] <rlaager> By the way, I'm finally getting back to setting up unison for file syncing. It's working well, so far.
[23:07] <rlaager> My use case is that I want to sync a particular directory on my laptop with my home directory on the file server at work.
[23:22] <Takyoji> Is there a way to "capture" what is used for an asterisk in bash?
[23:23] <Takyoji> Because, I don't believe this would really work for example: ffmpeg -i *.VOB (some parameters) *.flv
[23:23] <Takyoji> In other words, converting non-CSSed DVD video to FLV files.
[23:24] <Takyoji> As I believe the asterisk in the latter statement would try to look for all .flv files, when that's actually intended to be the output file