[06:33] ochosi: I think jeromeg is on it [06:33] and yeah, we can discuss the panel more, just ping me [06:34] and yeah², the first start is very slow (because of gvfs iirc); maybe jannis knows what we can "preload" to improve that. [08:28] mr_pouit: good morning :) [08:29] mr_pouit: the main thing i'm uncertain of is the bottom panel. i mean whether we really need/want it (by default) [09:09] re [09:09] ochosi: maybe only a dock-like bottom panel ? [09:10] hmpf, that's already present in the first iteration ;-) [09:10] hehe [09:11] well, the problem with the "dock-like" is that in the xfce-panel we can't combine open windows and starters [09:12] you mean, like windows 7? [09:12] yeah, or like macos for that matter [09:12] docky basically does that too [09:16] so, you're in favor of the bottom panel? [09:26] I think people are used to launcher icons, and if we put them on the top panel it will be a bit 'overcrowded' [09:31] yes, i think so too [09:32] i mean i don't use launchers, therefore i wasn't sure whether "the general public" needs that [09:32] neither do I, but I think they use it ;> [09:46] mhm [09:46] so we can keep it this way [09:46] auto-hidden by default [09:46] so it's not too much in the way [16:20] is there a meeting today? [16:22] good question [16:22] this would probably be the first time i could make it :) [16:25] Do you have updates? [16:25] I am willing to have one [16:26] well, i'm working on a new default panel layout [16:26] you can see iteration1 here: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xfce-panel [16:26] feedback appreciated [16:27] the only thing that's incorrect in that screenshot is that the windowlist would have the titles enabled [16:28] also: we've settled on elementary as default icon theme for natty [16:28] i'll fix it together with upstream [16:28] i'm still working on the gtk and xfwm themes, both are not final yet [16:28] i guess that's pretty much all the news from my side :) [16:29] I am using that layout, with the addition of a third panel for workspaces. I added it to the bottom, as a "grow as needed" panel, with a space between it and the launcher panel [16:30] My eight workspaces took too much room on the top panel [16:30] hehe [16:31] well, not sure whether eight workspaces is the typical use-case :) [16:31] heh, no? [16:31] but yes, the desktop-switcher is maybe one thing that's missing in my layout [16:31] do you think it should be there? [16:31] Yeah, I need it [16:31] mhm [16:31] I think many of our users do use more than one workspace, but that is an advanced thing [16:32] k, i'll try to make iteration2 soon and integrate it [16:32] would you mind posting a screenshot of how your panels look right now? [16:32] You do know the default for ubuntu 10.10 was 2, right? [16:32] most users that are not experienced will not use workspaces at all [16:33] yeah, i know [16:33] that's why i didn't put the switcher there until now [16:33] but we can try and see how it looks in the top-panel [16:33] unless you think we don't need it [16:34] I don't know if we need to add it, or just release note that the user is welcome to add it [16:34] mhm [16:34] about the bottom launcher panel: [16:35] i briefly discussed this with mr_pouit recently, he said he thinks people need launchers [16:35] If the user doesn't use workspaces, they won't even know it is gone [16:35] I like the launcher panel [16:35] ok, then we should focus on what we'd like to have there by default [16:35] what do you think about having it on autohide by default? [16:36] hate it [16:36] rly? [16:36] hm [16:36] ok [16:36] i thought that would be a good idea not to lose too much vertical space [16:36] here's the screenshot - http://imagebin.org/130258 [16:36] of course we can also put the second panel on the left side (like ubuntu does with unity) [16:37] We have two panels in all the releases, how would changing the bottom panel to a launcher panel change that? [16:37] I tried the panel on the side. It is ugly and screws up text if used [16:38] i never really liked the two-panel layout [16:38] I would really like to see orage clock replace that clock we use, too [16:38] sure, that's already there [16:38] i don't see a definite reason for having two panels. up to now the top panel was a complete waste if you ask me [16:38] I also use the orage world time clock, as you see [16:38] i mean a waste of space [16:38] yeah, i like that [16:39] That is clicking on orage with the middle button [16:39] and then adding the timezones. I find it convenient [16:39] your resolution is definitely high enough so that the second panel won't matter much, but people who have netbooks or <=13'' laptops... [16:39] yeah, orage worldclock is a nice thing [16:40] don't really get why it wasn't there by default in previous releases [16:40] I wonder if we can't make the top panel shrink too, and let it grow as windows are opened and closed? [16:41] hm, not sure, it's not something i would like :) [16:41] If we used a no text launcher panel, it would work on the side [16:41] That is the reason unity is icons only, I think [16:41] yeah, i think the text-launcher panel is out of the question [16:41] the texts are mostly too long [16:42] ok, anyways, g2g now [16:43] The way I use it, with workspaces on a separate panel, the side panel screws me up [16:43] worth thinking about, though [16:43] mhm [16:43] in case i don't make it to the meeting you at least now the status quo now :) [16:43] if there even will be a meeting [16:43] Thanks [16:44] mr_pouit: do we want a meeting today? [16:44] no problem [16:44] I forgot to send the reminder out [16:44] hm. so maybe we would be the only attendees anyways [16:44] yeah [16:45] guess in that case i'll find other things to do ) [16:45] ;) [16:45] Oh, yeah, I add launchers to the launchers, too. like under firefox, I have email, terminal, newsreader [16:45] mhm, maybe we can work on a list of launchers we'd like to have in the launcher panel [16:45] now that we've decided to have one [16:46] that would be good [16:46] and i'll try to put the launcher panel on the side and on the bottom so that we can see the difference [16:46] (even though maybe you have to use it to see whether you like it) [16:46] I think at least put in firefox, mail, thunar [16:46] yeah, and maybe the xfce-settings [16:46] I been using this launcher thing since 4.7 came to natty [16:47] we also should think about default dimensions [16:47] currently it's 24px top panel [16:47] hm, maybe abiword too? [16:47] yeah, maybe [16:47] and software center [16:48] I couldn't use the small panel, so I gave it up for "big" [16:48] I think mine are at 40 now [16:48] sure, your screen-resolution is high enough [16:48] but on a small laptop-screen this would steal too much space imo [16:48] even on small screens, I have to make it big to see the things [16:48] k [16:48] yeah, I am not good when it comes to deciding sizes, since my eyes are not doing good again [16:49] sorry to hear that [16:49] * charlie-tca shrugs [16:49] just something to live with [16:49] i'll try to discuss it with mr_pouit and maybe a few others [16:49] good idea. [16:49] k, rly g2g now [16:49] see you around [16:50] * ochosi waves [16:50] Thanks [16:50] oh, and in case i don't manage to stop by before that: happy new year [16:50] Same to you [16:50] thx, bye [16:50] Enjoy it [16:56] mr_pouit: are we going to activate the "software-sources" menu item for Natty? [16:57] Ubuntu is no longer using it since 10.10, but we could [16:59] OTOH, if we use "Application Finder" for the menu, it is there under System [17:16] I don't have any update =] [17:16] heh, then let's not have the meeting. We will have one next week, though [17:16] and I will still be in the train when the meeting starts I'm afraid =( [17:17] Well, then... [17:17] Have a really happy New Year's [17:19] By next week we'll hopefully have a schedule for 10.04.2 [17:19] Yay! [17:19] That would be really good [20:09] mr_pouit: heya, just realised that the version of the time-out panel-plugin we're having in xubuntu is really ancient, any chance we could update that from git to version 1.0 until natty?