[04:05] <ailo> ScottL: about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows, I suppose this is meant to be a sort of documentation project? How should it be implemented?
[04:07] <holstein> the idea is to learn how people use the tools
[04:07] <holstein> maybe fashion some meta-packages
[04:07] <holstein> like sudo apt-get install ubuntustudio-podcasting
[04:07] <holstein> and get a certain set of tools ready to rock-n-roll
[04:10] <ailo> I'm thinking there could be a very simple wizard for new users with links to documentation.
[04:10] <holstein> i keep thinking that too
[04:10] <holstein> but, its challenging
[04:10] <holstein> just getting JACK running can be a real drag
[04:11] <holstein> ailo: remember that guy last nite
[04:11] <holstein> i had to totally re-learn how ive been setting up my firewire device for the past 3 or 4 releases
[04:11] <holstein> and he *still* didnt get it running
[04:12] <holstein> it would have to be a dynamic wizard
[04:12] <holstein> with lots of sections
[04:12] <holstein> ailo: im into entertaining that idea though
[04:12] <holstein> i was thinking about doing some screenshots on my webserver 
[04:12] <holstein> for what happened last nite
[04:13] <holstein> how to get the kernel you need
[04:13] <holstein> etc
[04:13] <holstein> ailo: were you thinking something fancier than a wiki?
[04:14] <ailo> Well, the fundamental things should of course work first, if possible, but there will always be problems.
[04:15] <ailo> A wizard could be anything from a 3 step guide to a program that collects data from your system to adjust your installation.
[04:16] <holstein> ailo: i would like to see something like that in the installer
[04:16] <holstein> OR on the desktop after install
[04:16] <holstein> ailo: have you installed KXstudio?
[04:16] <ailo> not yet
[04:17] <holstein> lots of slick prompts
[04:17] <holstein> kernels and extra packages
[04:17] <holstein> ailo: when you add the user to groups
[04:17] <holstein> that has a page
[04:18] <holstein> with radio buttons
[04:18] <holstein> or check boxes
[04:18] <holstein> themed really nice
[04:19] <holstein> something like that after the install
[04:19] <ailo> I always felt that adding oneself to groups was a kind of bug. Should happen automatically, I think.
[04:19] <holstein> you click and get a little set-up wizard
[04:19] <holstein> ailo: i was thinking about filing a few bugs
[04:19] <holstein> maybe i'll drop them here
[04:19] <holstein> and you can glom on
[04:20] <holstein> if you file a bug for the adduser thing
[04:20] <holstein> i'll add myself :)
[04:20] <ailo> You mean to the Ubuntu people? Isn't this specific for US?
[04:21] <holstein> well, we're on the same repos
[04:21] <ailo> Or audio distros.
[04:21] <holstein> i think we get a category on LP right?
[04:21] <holstein> maybe not
[04:23] <ailo> I guess if it doesn't hurt them, it could be worth a shot, but considering how RT is maybe about to change, maybe that wont matter soon
[04:24] <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/695892
[04:25] <ScottL> ailo, originally i was concerned because ubuntu studio didn't see cohesive, a lot of the apps just seemed included "just because"
[04:25] <holstein> not sure how to change that to 'wishlist'
[04:25] <ScottL> ailo,  they didn't seem to support anything in particular, other than to include a neat app
[04:25] <ScottL> ailo, so to "justify" an app's inclusion we needed to identify it's need
[04:26] <ailo> of course :)
[04:26] <ScottL> ailo, therefore, if a viable workflow could be developed that would demonstrate it's worthiness we keep it :)
[04:26] <ScottL> ailo, but also, the workflows provide framework for documentation and testing
[04:27] <ailo> Who is hands on with the US iso? A live CD seems like a better choice for a number of reasons.
[04:27] <ScottL> holstein, it's marked as "wishlist" now ;)
[04:27] <ScottL> ailo, supposedly falktx was working on a livedvd for ubuntu studio but i haven't seen it yet, i hope to though
[04:28] <holstein> ScottL: where is that ?
[04:28] <holstein> wishlist
[04:28] <ailo> I would rather see a cd, or both, since burning DVD's can be a challenge. Memory sticks is fine, CD are fine.
[04:28] <ScottL> holstein, your bug is now marked as wishlist
[04:30] <ScottL> if ubuntu studio continues i think a community supported stripped-down liveCD would be an awesome "calling card" or hardware test (as holstein suggested)
[04:30] <ScottL> i mean, people give cd's away but dvd's are still kinda pricey
[04:31] <ailo> Main reason why I stopped using Ubuntustudio DVD was because none of the recorders at my disposal were able to do it right. Installing would mostly fail, while retrieving some small file.
[04:31] <ScottL> holstein, on your bug, to the right of assignee, do you see the "importance" heading?  do you see a yellow circle below it?
[04:32] <ScottL> errr.left...to the left of the assignee
[04:33] <holstein> how about
[04:33] <holstein> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/695893
[04:35] <ScottL> holstein, do you want me to change that one to wishlist as well?
[04:35] <holstein> ScottL: not sure
[04:35] <holstein> i mean
[04:35] <holstein> its a bug right?
[04:35] <holstein> you can though
[04:35] <holstein> nothing can be done about it now
[04:35] <holstein> ACTUALLY
[04:36] <holstein> let me try to change it to wishlist
[04:36] <holstein> i still dont see it ;)
[04:37] <ailo> A live DVD is mostly nice on a usb, stick. Particularly if you can install programs on the USB like you can on Puredyne. 
[04:37] <ailo> Meaning, on Puredyne you can install programs, add users
[04:38] <ailo> But not all systems support booting from USB
[04:38] <ailo> If burning a DVD fails, you need a CD
[04:38] <ScottL> how does puredyne keep from trashing the usb stick with so many writes?
[04:39] <holstein> maybe it just trashes it ;)
[04:39] <holstein> ScottL: d00d
[04:39] <holstein> im blind
[04:39] <holstein> i cant find the right yellow circle
[04:40] <ScottL> i remember falktx saying something about not writing to the usb until you unmount the stick, everything else is kept in memory until then
[04:40] <ScottL> but he wasn't necessarily talking about puredyne i think
[04:40] <ScottL> holstein, it's probably a permission thing in luanchpad, i can see it because i'm in ubuntustudio-dev probably
[04:41] <ailo> I don't really know anything other than that they use Debian-live and a specific script to create the live usb. 
[04:41] <ailo> It works great, though.
[04:41] <holstein> ScottL: OH
[04:41] <holstein> thats the deal
[04:41] <ailo> Two partitions, live-image + writeable
[04:43] <ailo> Anyway, from my point of view, CD format is still the best, since it excludes all sorts of problems.
[04:44] <holstein> you can always unetbootin the image
[04:45] <ailo> But only if it's "live-able" right?
[04:45] <holstein> i know installing doesnt work from the alternates
[04:45] <holstein> with unetbootin
[04:45] <holstein> like with ubuntustudio's installer
[04:45] <holstein> and ubuntuserver
[04:49] <ailo> I'm still wondering why bios'es aren't adapted to install stuff directly from the internet.
[04:50] <holstein> i should be able to flash my bios
[04:50] <holstein> and get that
[04:51] <holstein> with some tricky embedded linux
[04:51] <holstein> i guess we could if things were more open
[04:52] <ailo> Have you guys ever discussed longer release cycles?
[04:56] <ailo> holstein: how did you get your firewire working yesterday? Was it on 10.04?
[04:57] <holstein> ailo: its been cool on 10.04
[04:57] <holstein> i got it working in 10.10
[04:57] <ailo> If I haven't misunderstood, the guy yesterday was on 10.10
[04:57] <ailo> ok
[04:57] <holstein> using that kernel
[04:57] <holstein> from 11.04
[04:57] <ailo> But with dependency problems?
[04:57] <holstein> or abogani's PPA for 11.04
[04:57] <holstein> ailo: i dont think so
[04:57] <holstein> there's 3 packages
[04:57] <holstein> one of them didnt isntall
[04:57] <holstein> you dont need all three though right?
[04:58] <holstein> it worked
[05:02] <ailo> In many ways I consider Ubuntustudio a sort of central point for debian based Linux Audio. Lately there have appeared several new Ubuntu based distros. Why are we not working together? It't the same base after all.
[05:03] <holstein> i think falk is trying to do that
[05:03] <holstein> help instead of compete
[05:03] <holstein> dont know about the others
[05:03] <holstein> lots of different ideas and focus though
[05:04] <holstein> really doesnt take much to get a fork going on
[05:04] <ScottL> ailo, that is a very profound (and heavily considered) aspect of ubuntu studio
[05:04] <ScottL> i meant, in respect that others are based on ubuntu studio
[05:04] <ScottL> what would they do if ubuntu studio stopped existing?
[05:05] <ailo> exactly
[05:06] <ailo> Certain things are problematic for some people: Desktop, Pulseaudio...
[05:06] <ailo> But the base issues are still the same
[05:06] <ScottL> holstein, tomorrow i will send an email to quadrispro about helping with some items for ubuntu studio that need to be done, that's the start of what we talked about earlier
[05:06] <ScottL> ailo, unless pulse audio is ripped out, then i do not think too much can be done within ubuntu to improve it dramatically
[05:07] <ScottL> meaning that most substantive improvements will most likely come from upstream of ubuntu
[05:07] <ScottL> be it debian or lennar
[05:07] <ScottL> lennart
[05:07] <ScottL> most likely lennart though (when he's not dorking with systemd)
[05:08] <ScottL> i just bought "Guerrilla Home Recording: How to Get Great Sound from Any Studio (No Matter How Weird and Cheap Your Gear Is)"
[05:08] <ailo> Pulseaudio doesn't need to be a consern in my mind for collaboration. Other distros can have it without Pulseaudio, but still share pretty much everything else.
[05:08] <ScottL> i'm hoping this will improve my knowledge and results with recording
[05:09] <ScottL> i'm going to bed, goodnight all :)
[05:10] <ailo> gn
[05:12] <holstein> ScottL: GN