[00:00] <Daskreech> Trotting off home
[00:08] <smoothtaste> hey guys
[00:10] <James147> hi smoothtaste
[00:11] <smoothtaste> never been on freenode before, but proud user ;)
[00:11] <smoothtaste> figured since I use Quassel all the time for android, might as well hop over here
[00:13] <smoothtaste> does freenode support ip masking in #help, etc?
[00:14] <James147> !mask | smoothtaste
[00:14] <smoothtaste> thaanks
[00:18] <JackOfHearts> hello
[00:22] <smoothtaste> hola
[00:43] <psykatog> anyone know how to change the startup sound?
[00:44] <James147> psykatog: notifications in system settings
[00:45] <James147> under "KDE Workspace"
[00:46] <smoothtaste> cool
[00:46] <smoothtaste> never thought about changing that
[00:47]  * James147 always disables it... donst see the point in having a startup sound...
[01:04] <smoothtaste> anybody got any cool conky setups?
[01:07] <smoothtaste> here's mine
[01:07] <smoothtaste> http://tinypic.com/r/16bc85t/7
[01:27] <Walzmyn> smoothtaste: that on KDE?
[01:28] <smoothtaste> Walzmyn: Yes, kubuntu 10.04
[01:28] <Walzmyn> i had a hell of a time trying to get conky to work with kde
[01:28] <smoothtaste> Want my script?
[01:28] <Walzmyn> been a while back. Friend of mine was trying to gimme his cpu usage script
[01:28] <Walzmyn> nah
[01:28] <smoothtaste> I just used feh
[01:28] <Walzmyn> I never have enough stuff closed you can see the desktop anyway
[01:29] <smoothtaste> i hear you
[01:29] <smoothtaste> but it's nice for a screenshot
[01:29] <Walzmyn> I don't remember what my problem was, but it gave me enough fits, I gave up on it
[01:29] <Walzmyn> yes it is
[01:30] <smoothtaste> Yeah it was a hassle
[01:31] <smoothtaste> Took about 20 minutes to get it right
[01:32] <smoothtaste> I was like, fml
[01:34] <jim__> hello
[01:34] <smoothtaste> hello
[01:35] <jim__> can someone help me to either get my dvd light scriber working or install gentoo over the net using ubuntu
[01:36] <smoothtaste> OOhh
[01:36] <smoothtaste> I wish I could
[01:36] <smoothtaste> If someone does I'll be watching
[01:36] <smoothtaste> I've been very interested in gentoo for quite a while now
[01:36] <jim__> are there any people talking its amazing so many people and no one talking
[01:37] <jim__> isnt it something like net-install gentoo.iso /dev/sda?
[01:38] <jim__> wheres everyone from
[01:39] <jim__> My name is jim...Im a recovering addict....I have an addiction.....I am compulsivly looking for things in the way the countries leaders and other fools like those cutting down our forestry to pick at and high light in everyday life
[01:39] <James147> jim__: gentoo isent support on this channel... try asking in the gentoo channel for help with insatalling it
[01:39] <jim__> I did but I am using this wretched Ubuntu
[01:40] <jim__> If I wanted windows I would have gone oout and spent 199.00
[01:40] <jim__> what have you done with ubuntu?
[01:41] <jim__> ????
[01:41] <jim__> anyone?
[01:41] <smoothtaste> what do you mean what have you done
[01:42] <smoothtaste> and ubuntu or kubuntu
[01:42] <jim__> I agree the grafix kick as.... but Im confused
[01:43] <jim__> why don't I have the same red had actions as to when someone trys to break in my system
[01:44] <jim__> whos an engineer
[01:45] <smoothtaste> oh... i see.
[01:46] <jim__> I've both and kubuntu freezes
[01:46] <jim__> what do you do to init cdrom/dvd
[01:46] <jim__> if inserted nothing but a little spin
[01:49] <jim__> heellloooo
[01:54] <jim__> hello
[01:55] <jim__> _DerHorst_
[01:55] <_DerHorst_> DONT highlight random persons
[01:56] <jim__> this is stupid no one knows how to talk or type unless all of ya don't have hands
[01:57] <Snowhog_> This is a Kubuntu support channel on IRC. It isn't a 'chat room'
[01:57] <James147> jim__: no one tends to talk here unless they have a questions or know how to naswer a questions... if you want general chate go to #ubuntu-offtopic or a similar channel
[01:57] <jim__> what the hell is it with americans everybody responds if you are going to argue or command someone but natural talk is oblivious
[01:57] <James147> jim__: I am not american....
[01:58] <jim__> all i asked was a technical question....
[01:58] <jim__> I'm obviously trying to get recognized before over looked which  you must agree is what america does.
[01:58] <James147> jim__: and it appeared that no one watching knew how to answer your question... this time of day is very quite for this channel
[01:59] <Snowhog_> jim__: Yes, but a question that was not related to Kubuntu Linux. This channel is for questions concerning and about Kubuntu Linux.
[01:59] <jim__> no is related
[01:59] <jim__> I understand where you are coming from there are many people here
[02:00] <James147> jim__: I suggest you look at the fourms or ask again when more people are awake
[02:00] <jim__> My question I could ask you again
[02:00] <smoothtaste> I've got a question regarding amarok in kubuntu 10.04
[02:00] <James147> jim__: there are many people in the channel, not everyone is watching or paying attention
[02:00] <James147> !ask | smoothtaste
[02:01] <jim__> just wanted to know how to get my cdrom/dvd lightscriber working again thats all
[02:01] <jim__> sorry for bothering you
[02:02] <smoothtaste> Fair enough, my apologies. Has anyone found a proper way to change themes in the included version of amarok for 10.04 LTS. The version in the repositories doesnt support this feature.
[02:02] <James147> jim__: and as I said, it appears that no one currently watching knows the answer, ask again in a while or search the forums
[02:03] <James147> smoothtaste: amarok 2 dosent support changing themes directly in the application, you can however change your system theme... You can also change the layout of the different parts of amarok from within amarok
[02:04] <d_ed> jim__: have you read http://community.kde.org/Real-Time_Communication_and_Collaboration/Components/Accounts_KCM_Hack_Day
[02:04] <d_ed> ooops
[02:04] <d_ed> wrong link
[02:04] <d_ed> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LightScribe
[02:04] <FloodBotK1> d_ed: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[02:04] <d_ed> sorry floodbot :-(
[02:04] <smoothtaste> James147: Thank you. I remember changing it in /kde/share/apps/amarok/images (i think) before but didn't see a change this time. Back to Clementine :)
[02:06] <jim__> so not one of you know how to start the cdrom working on auto detect again
[02:06] <jim__> should I update my /etc/mtab or something
[02:07] <d_ed> jim__: you've got my attention, what's the question
[02:07] <d_ed> *?
[02:08] <jim__> how cacn I get the cdrom detecting inserted disk
[02:08] <jim__> I get a brief spin then nothing
[02:08] <d_ed> a normal data CD?
[02:08] <jim__> like if i wanted to burn something
[02:08] <d_ed> oh ok
[02:09] <d_ed> so you've put in a blank disk?
[02:09] <Walzmyn> if I insert a blank disk, it dosen't do anything, but K3B knows its there
[02:09] <James147> jim__: kde dosent do anything with blank cd... but burning programs like k3b should still see them
[02:10] <jim__> oh okay....?
[02:10] <jim__> Umm what now...
[02:10] <jim__> I'll ggo do something
[02:10] <jim__> Im using gnome
[02:11] <James147> jim__: if you want to burn an image open k3b and burn it... not much else you can do with blank cds
[02:11] <jim__> im on gnome
[02:11] <d_ed> ok, exactly what they said except replace "k3b" with "brassero"
[02:11] <James147> jim__: and if you using gnome ask in #ubuntu
[02:12] <jim__> sorry if I sound ignorant but what part of it doesn't see the disk or somethings not write don't you understand
[02:12] <jim__> your mind is small, vary small to limit yourself to one way of thinking
[02:13] <shane4ubuntu> d_ed: actually in gnome I still used k3b or Gnomebaker, as I always disliked brassero
[02:13] <James147> jim__: it probally is seeing the disk.... well as much of a blank disk there is to see.... kde dosent warn you or do anything when it detects a blank disk has been inserted though
[02:13] <jim__> no it doesn't
[02:13] <shane4ubuntu> actually in Gnome it should pop up saying, "Would you like to burn a disk" when a blank disk is inserted
[02:14] <jim__> I I I.....KNOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.........
[02:14] <James147> shane4ubuntu: ^^ i dont know gnome I can only talk about what kubuntu does...
[02:14] <sniper1> hello have trying to install cdde cd detect andexecute utility
[02:14] <James147> jim__: if you want help with gnome see #ubuntu
[02:14] <shane4ubuntu> James147: right, that is why I was saying something, I'm a gnomer. :)
[02:14] <shane4ubuntu> sort of.
[02:17] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog_: are you the same on the forums?
[02:17] <Snowhog_> shane4ubuntu: Yes.
[02:17] <shane4ubuntu> ok, I'm shane2peru on the forums
[02:17] <shane4ubuntu> ya know the help Trying to upgrade from Kubuntu-ppa
[02:18] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: I figured that out when I saw your post, and recognized it as the same issue you posted here.
[02:18] <shane4ubuntu> :)
[02:18] <shane4ubuntu> with apt-get it is wanting to remove kdm is that odd?  shouldn't kdm be upgraded?
[02:19] <jim__> what verson of kde do you have
[02:19] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: When upgrading KDE, some of the packages get removed and replaced at the same time. Let me look at my upgrade notes and see what was removed/installed when I upgraded to KDE 4.5.x
[02:19] <shane4ubuntu> jim__: 4.5.1
[02:20] <jim__> thats the new one right
[02:21] <James147> jim__: wouldnt call it new anymore :) 4.5.4 or 5 is the latest stable version of kde
[02:21] <shane4ubuntu> jim__: right, actually 4.6RC1 is out now
[02:21] <jim__> I just got the newest here and it seems fine althought the cd is problematic when I use bintoo.gentoo sabayon aLinux.tv it works fine
[02:22] <shane4ubuntu> jim__: did you try a different disk?
[02:22] <jim__> i think it holds to much info out though kde newest makes tou look all day for what you want
[02:22] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: When I added the ppa:kubuntu-ppa repository after my initial install of Maverick back on October 12, 2010, kdm was one of the packages upgraded, but not indicated as to be removed.
[02:22] <jim__> I've tried the whole pile
[02:22] <shane4ubuntu> jim__: that is odd, and not normal.
[02:23] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: hmm, I'm thinking of being content with 4.5.1
[02:23] <jim__> i just inserted a mp3 recorded disk to copy to my music files and nothing
[02:23] <jim__> The disk mech. it self workes just not with this os
[02:23] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: Are you sure that kdm isn't going to be replaced within the dist-upgrade?
[02:23] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: kdm was one of the major hangups, for some reason when it removed it, it deleted the /etc/init/kdm.conf file first
[02:24] <rtdos> my screensaver is not kicking in automatically (unless i lock the screen)
[02:24] <shane4ubuntu> then kdm couldn't be removed, I created a bogus file and then removed it and that finally did the trick
[02:24] <sithlord48> do we have a current ppc build?
[02:24] <jim__> maybe I need to reset my login display mngr. i switched from gdm to kdm
[02:25] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: no, there are 0 newly installed, :(
[02:25] <shane4ubuntu> jim__: did you reboot afterwards?
[02:25] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: And kdm is listed as a package to be REMOVED??
[02:25] <jim__> see mI like to weave alot of things together here but not so much my disk wouldnt' work
[02:25] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: yep.
[02:26] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: That isn't good or correct AFAIK. Definitely not 'normal'
[02:26] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/550058/
[02:26] <James147> shane4ubuntu: do you have the kubuntu-desktop package installed?
[02:26] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: You don't have the kubuntu 'beta' repository active by chance, do you?
[02:26] <shane4ubuntu> James147: yes
[02:26] <jim__> what are you getting at
[02:26] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: no
[02:27] <jim__> who are u talking to
[02:27] <sithlord48> Snowhog, shane4ubuntu kde  4.6 upgrade?
[02:27] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: I was looking at them all,
[02:27] <shane4ubuntu> sithlord48: 4.5.6 upgrade
[02:27] <shane4ubuntu> sithlord48: with kubuntu-ppa
[02:28] <sithlord48> looks like im gonna be in on that one too since i have the kubuntu-ppa installed.
[02:28] <shane4ubuntu> sithlord48: no this is my initial upgrade, if you are already running 4.5.6 you are probably fine
[02:28] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: sithlord48, I do as well, and I don't have the problem. I'm on KDE 4.5.4
[02:29] <sithlord48> im on 4.5.4....
[02:29] <shane4ubuntu> oh, maybe it was upgrading to 4.5.4
[02:29] <shane4ubuntu> my bad
[02:29] <shane4ubuntu> on sec, brb
[02:29] <sithlord48> its ok im trying to get a g3 imac from like 12 years ago to run something useable
[02:30] <sithlord48> the hw limits are strain enuff , and on top of it the machine is a ppc, so this is gonna make the web browsing part kinda harder..
[02:31] <sithlord48> w/ flash and that stuff..,
[02:31] <sithlord48> leading back to does anyone know if there is a current ppc build that is ubuntu-server..? i
[02:32] <sithlord48> nm, i found one :P
[02:33] <rtdos> my screensaver is not kicking in automatically (unless i lock the screen)
[02:42] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: From the output of your dist-upgrade, I'm inclined to think that at some time after installation of Kubuntu, you installed an application that was not in the repositories, and it brought in dependencies that are now in conflict with what you are now wanting to do. Did you install any packages 'manually?'
[02:42] <sithlord48> rtdos: have you checked system settings -> display and monitor to check the time ?
[02:43] <rtdos> yes it is set to start automatically after 5 minutes. but the screen just dims.
[02:43] <James147> rtdos: ^^ also the power management settings
[02:44] <harleen> hello i am unsing ubuntu 10.04 and i cannot get my iphone to show on the desktop after plugging in the iphone
[02:44] <harleen> someone help
[02:44] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: ok, back, yes, actually I had a few ppa's, one is pidgin which I'm using now for irc, and then x-swat? for the drivers or something like that, I can probably remove that on this one, I think I did it to see if I could lower the graphics card temp some.
[02:44] <James147> harleen: #ubuntu for ubuntu support
[02:45] <James147> !iphone | harleen
[02:45] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: actually I know my way around synaptic and can pick out what apps were installed from those ppa's and remove them.
[02:45] <rtdos> james, I have power management settings off when it's plugged in (i'm using a laptop)
[02:46] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: That is likely a good approach. Get back to a 'clean' installation, with standard repos, including the kubuntu-ppa, then update and dist-upgrade (simulated).
[02:46] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: oh, and xiphos and adobe and dropbox
[02:46] <harleen> !iphone
[02:46] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: ok, let me give that a try thanks
[02:48] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: hmm, hit a nerve seems as though libdrm-intel1 is related to about every package on my system, removing it removes my system, that is probably the prob
[02:48] <harleen> thanks
[02:48] <harleen> i will give these a try
[03:10] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: x-swat is likely what is now causing you the problem.
[03:12] <harleen> hi my iphone is not connecting to ubuntu can anyone help?? i plug in my iphone and i do not nothing happens
[03:13] <harleen> !iphone
[03:14] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: yep, working on weeding it out. learned a new trick with synaptic, and force version to get rid of old versions without removing everything
[03:15] <Snowhog> shane4ubuntu: Synaptic is a very nice package manager. Lot's of power, and user friendly.
[03:15] <gabriel__> alguien habla español?
[03:15] <shane4ubuntu> Snowhog: yep,
[03:15] <shane4ubuntu> !es | gabriel__
[03:16] <gabriel__> ok thanks
[03:16] <Snowhog> gabriel__: You are welcome to ask questions here, just in English please.
[03:17] <luc_> So is this Ubuntu channel in general or just Kubuntu?
[03:17] <Snowhog> luc_: Kubuntu.
[03:18] <gabriel__> i have 2 hard disks, want to be sure how to get all my files from home in ide, the other is a solid state.
[03:20] <gabriel__> i use KXStudio, like Ubuntu studio but KDE
[03:20] <James147> gabriel__: "rsync -avhP SOURCE DEST"   is a good way to copy alarge number of files, if it get intrupted it will resume where it left if you rerun it
[03:29] <gabriel__> ok thanks, that's why i wanted to speak in spanish, 'cause i can't explain my problem very well, neither understand your help. sorry.
[03:30] <Daskreech> gabriel__: what do you have the solid state mounted as?
[03:34] <gabriel__> solid state: / 20 Gb (+-), /home 10 (+-) & swap the rest. Ide: /home too 120 Gb (+-)
[04:03] <dfrey> I bought a new sound card and I'm having trouble getting it to work.  It's an Auzentech X-Meridian.  It's documented here on the ALSA site: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-AuzenTech
[04:03] <dfrey> I can see the device when I use lspci, but when I try to run alsamixer, I get the message "cannot open mixer: No such file or directory"
[04:09] <DarthFrog> dfrey: Try amixer.
[04:09] <DarthFrog> Or alsamixer
[04:10] <dfrey> DarthFrog: amixer gives me "amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such file or directory"
[04:10] <dfrey> DarthFrog: I already tried alsamixer as mentioned above.
[04:11] <DarthFrog> dfrey:  Do you have sound?
[04:11] <dfrey> no
[04:11] <Snowhog> dfrey: What version of Kubuntu and KDE are you running?
[04:12] <DarthFrog> Hmm. Try this: "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install paprefs padevchooser pavucontrol pavumeter"  All on one line.
[04:13] <DarthFrog> Then run padevchooser, which will put an icon in your SysTray.  Use it to play around with pulseaudio.
[04:14] <dfrey> Snowhog: kubuntu 10.10 and whatever the latest version of KDE is
[04:16] <dfrey> DarthFrog: I'm trying your suggestion
[04:18] <dfrey> DarthFrog: The "devices" tab only shows dummy devices
[04:19] <DarthFrog> dfrey:  Sounds like your sound card isn't being seen by the system.
[04:19] <dfrey> DarthFrog: It shows up in lspci though
[04:20] <dfrey> What is the meaning of the "used by" column in lsmod output?
[04:20] <DarthFrog> Then the drivers aren't being loaded for the sound card.  Do you know what ALSA driver you need?
[04:21] <DarthFrog> dfrey: "Used by" means just that.  One kernel module (or driver, if you prefer) is being used by, and possibly depends upon, the other.
[04:21] <dfrey> I believe it's snd_oxygen
[04:21] <DarthFrog> then try "sudo modprobe snd_oxygen" and see what happens.
[04:22] <DarthFrog> If that works, add "modprobe snd_oxygen" to the bottom of /etc/rc.local
[04:22] <DarthFrog> Or add "snd_oxygen" to /etc/modules.
[04:23] <dfrey> The module loads fine, but I still don't see any device in pulse audio.  back in a minute...
[04:24] <DarthFrog> Does alsamixer work now?
[04:53] <j1mc|afk> dear kubuntu. don't be afraid to admit who you are. be proud. http://img233.imageshack.us/i/selection001k.png/
[04:53] <j1mc|afk> :)
[04:57] <Daskreech> wow it's over a year old?
[04:59] <Westyvw> two updates today returned an error, but i cant see what package is causing it
[04:59] <Westyvw> or waht the error actually is, can i manuanlly run apt to check the status of dpkg?
[05:04] <rjwiii> any one know how to set up printing in virtualbox guest OS?
[05:05] <Westyvw> virtualbox non ose will use the hosts printer via the usb port
[05:05] <Westyvw> dont know what to do with the OSE version
[05:06] <rjwiii> Whats the difference?
[05:07] <rjwiii> do you have to pay for te OSE version?
[05:09] <Westyvw> no you dont have to pay if you are using it for personal use
[05:10] <Westyvw> it doesnt come in the repos, you have to add the sources to your package manager
[05:10] <rjwiii> that was my next question ...
[05:10] <rjwiii> so, the OSE version doesn't support printing?
[05:12] <Westyvw> i wonder if you could do printing using the cups interface?
[05:12] <Westyvw> if you shared a printer on the host i would imagine that the guest could see it
[05:12] <Westyvw> because that would be done via the network
[05:13] <rjwiii> donno ... I set up the printer on kubuntu to be shaired ...
[05:13] <rjwiii> shared ...
[05:13] <Westyvw> whats the guest os?
[05:13] <rjwiii> but M$7 can't find it ...
[05:13] <rjwiii> M$7
[05:15] <Westyvw> i dont have a windows vm to check shared printing with cups :(
[05:16] <rjwiii> Gonna try some stuff I found in Google ...
[05:16] <Westyvw> maybe this post could help: http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=1465
[05:16] <Westyvw> kinda old
[05:18] <frogonwheels> I found printing directly to the cups url works great btw, providing you have the drivers installed on windows
[05:18] <frogonwheels> (and providing you set up permissions in cups) rjwiii
[05:20] <FloridaGuy> did sudo apt-get upgrade...lost the plymounth screen...got a ugly blue text screen now.....how do i get the plymounth boot screen back??
[05:23] <smoothtaste> I hate it when I get that ugly blue screen
[05:24] <FloridaGuy> i like having a nice boot screen when booting
[05:25] <smoothtaste> I agree.
[05:26] <smoothtaste> But plymouth has always been problematic for me.
[05:26] <smoothtaste> Maybe I screw with things I shouldn't. :)
[05:27] <FloridaGuy> mandriva i can change plymounth perfectly....ubuntu ...kubuntu...gives me problems
[05:28] <smoothtaste> Agreed. Fedora as well.
[05:30] <smoothtaste> Any of you out there use dropbox on kubuntu?
[05:36] <luis__> hello everyone good nite to you all i like to ask for your help i installed exaile from direct from the official web page to have the newest version, aparently all went good but when i try to started never did, then i notice on terminal that something went wrong about some glib package i have been tryong to remove exaile in terminal and it says that is done but i do still see the icon on kmenu then multimedia can somebody tell me how to permanently remove
[05:36] <luis__> it please???
[05:38] <smoothtaste> Reboot?
[05:42] <luis__> lets see that
[06:16] <Erisianmonk23> hello I am a new 10.04 usr and am having difficulty getting my desktop to connect to the internet
[06:18] <geekosopher> Erisianmonk23: is it just the web browser or all internet apps?
[06:18] <Erisianmonk23> everything
[06:18] <Erisianmonk23> it worked fine under 9.04, so I know it isn't my wireless card
[06:19] <Erisianmonk23> I upgraded to 10.04 and now it can see the ap but won't connect
[06:19] <geekosopher> hmm
[06:20] <Erisianmonk23> at this point I am seriously considering going back down to 6.04 and working my way back up
[06:21] <Erisianmonk23> I am still kind of new to linux so I'm not sure wtf is wrong, or how to go about checking things...yup another attempting windowz convert
[06:22] <frogonwheels> Have you had a play with the network connection in icon tray?
[06:22] <Erisianmonk23> I've futz'd with the network manager
[06:23] <Erisianmonk23> I've got my network id in there and my wep
[06:23] <frogonwheels> Erisianmonk23: so it's a wireless connection to an access point of some sort?
[06:23] <Erisianmonk23> yeah
[06:23] <Erisianmonk23> it sees the ap but it has a lock icon on it
[06:23] <frogonwheels> if you click on the ap does it allow entering a pass?
[06:24] <Erisianmonk23> ?
[06:25] <Erisianmonk23> I have the available access point scanner up
[06:25] <Erisianmonk23> shows the lock and the ap id
[06:27] <geekosopher> Erisianmonk23: just check if this helps http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1472061
[06:41] <Erisianmonk23> so are you saying that I probably have two sets of drivers trying to connect and thus causing both to fail?
[06:43] <geekosopher> Erisianmonk23: probably, if the op had the same issue as your
[06:44] <Erisianmonk23> not sure, op was using an external usb wireless, mine is a card
[06:45] <geekosopher> try googling "ubuntu lucid wireless internet <your card model>"
[06:46] <geekosopher> Erisianmonk23: or probably you did that already
[06:46] <geekosopher> :)
[06:46] <Erisianmonk23> lol
[06:46] <Erisianmonk23> looking for things to wang myself over the head with
[06:46] <smoothtaste> i had a hell of a time setting mine up as well
[06:47] <smoothtaste> ended up being an old ndiswrapper interfering
[06:47] <smoothtaste> user error
[06:48] <Erisianmonk23> ndiswrapper not installed
[06:48] <Erisianmonk23> one of the guys in my lug just suggested it
[06:51] <smoothtaste> could still be drivers though
[06:51] <smoothtaste> backup and try fresh install? Assuming you upgraded.
[06:51] <Miro8> how can i get a second linux installed on my laptop but still havin the first one as a primary boot?
[06:52] <smoothtaste> VM or Partition your hard drive.
[06:52] <Erisianmonk23> I've been entertaining re-installing with my 6.04 disk and upgrading from there
[06:52] <Miro8> is vm fast if i run it on windwos?
[06:52] <Erisianmonk23> at least I know that disk will work right out of the sleeve
[06:54] <geekosopher> Miro8: when you install second linux, don't install grub when it prompts
[06:54] <Miro8> geekosopher: but will the old grub pick it up?
[06:54] <geekosopher> then update the grub of your first linux with the info of second one
[06:54] <geekosopher> Miro8: ^
[06:55] <frogonwheels> Erisianmonk23: try running the live disk
[06:55] <Erisianmonk23> going to restart w/ 6.04 disk in
[06:55] <smoothtaste> Erisianmonk23: You could do that, and maybe burn the 10.04 live cd?
[06:55] <frogonwheels> (befor eyou go reinstalling)
[06:55] <smoothtaste> :)
[06:55] <Miro8> how do i update the grub?
[06:55] <geekosopher> Miro8: if your first linux has grub2 installed, its just the matter of doing 'update-grub' from the terminal
[06:56] <Erisianmonk23> live-cding w/ 6.04
[06:56] <Miro8> ok
[06:56] <Miro8> thanks
[06:56] <geekosopher> Miro8: np
[06:56] <smoothtaste> 6.04?
[06:56] <Erisianmonk23> seeing if I can dl stuff like ndiswrapper to my hd...what directory to install to though
[06:56] <Erisianmonk23> yeah it's solid
[06:57] <smoothtaste> That's what matters. :)
[06:57] <Miro8> one more Q .. where can i get ubuntu VM?
[06:57] <Erisianmonk23> not sure how it will play with my network in a live cd sesh though
[06:58] <geekosopher> Miro8: there is virtualbox in the repos, so is qemu
[06:58] <Miro8> isnt it the Desktop Edition?
[07:03] <Erisianmonk23> no doing ze networkingz via 6.04 live cd sesh
[07:03] <Miro8> wahts the differencer between runnin Ubuntu as VM and Desktop Edition Ubuntu?
[07:07] <geekosopher> Miro8: VM is a program which runs an operating system within a host system,
[07:07] <smoothtaste> Erisianmonk23: You on a netbook?
[07:08] <Erisianmonk23> laptop
[07:08] <geekosopher> Miro8: for example you may install virtualbox on windows, then install ubuntu (desktop or netbook edition) on it,
[07:08] <Erisianmonk23> the machine I'm trying to get online is a desktop
[07:08] <geekosopher> Miro8: that way, you can run ubuntu from withing windows
[07:09] <smoothtaste> wubi.
[07:09] <smoothtaste> Erisianmonk23: I was gonna say try Linux Mint because it picked up my Acer Netbook when Ubuntu wouldn't... wasted breath.
[07:10] <Miro81> whats the differencer ebtween desktop or netbook edition?
[07:10] <Erisianmonk23> drivers
[07:10] <geekosopher> Miro8: the other way is to partition your hard disk and intall ubuntu on one of the (empty) partitions, may be that is what you meant by desktop edition
[07:11] <smoothtaste> Drivers as well as GUI.
[07:11] <geekosopher> Miro8: netbook edition is for low powered, small screen netbooks
[07:11] <Miro81> i see
[07:11] <Miro81> im installin a VM and i was wonderin how mcu hmemory should i allocate to Ubuntu? i got 4GB total  (64bit)
[07:12] <geekosopher> Miro81: 512 minimum,
[07:13] <geekosopher> Miro81: if you go beyond 2 gb, the host system might complain
[07:14] <Miro81> ok so 1GB should be fine?
[07:14] <geekosopher> Miro81: should be
[07:16] <Erisianmonk23> I'll be back tomorrow with either a newly installed 6.04, or the same problem I have now
[07:16] <Mister> Hi everyone
[07:16] <geekosopher> Mister: hi
[07:17] <geekosopher> Erisianmonk23: all the best :)
[07:18] <coucouille> Bloutch
[07:18] <Mister> coucouille lol
[07:18] <Mister> le Zini la
[07:23] <Miro81> im creating a virtual disk now and it says 1 hour 47min remaining.. is this right??
[07:25] <Guest58991> Erisianmonk23: what nick card? the new kernels don't work with my eth0 or wlan0 :(
[07:25] <Guest58991> Erisianmonk23: any distro
[08:01] <Miro81> i was runnin backtrack live CD and i got the following error "unable to access the X display is $Display set properly?" whats wrong??
[08:17] <administrateur__> yo
[08:19] <smoothtaste> yo yo
[08:19] <administrateur__> :o
[08:29] <Miro81> i started installin my second linux .. and in the partition section it says that my sda has no mount point assigned :s whats does that mean
[08:49] <jhohn> \?
[08:58] <Miro81> i installed my second linux but update-grub didnt work .. in the boot menu i only have a memory test on that linux
[08:58] <Miro81> what do i do?
[08:58] <valorie> I don't know much about this, Miro81
[08:59] <valorie> but did you ever get a mount-point?
[09:00] <Miro81> what do u mean
[09:00] <usaki> hi, can anyone tell me how i can use java programs in firefox?
[09:03] <valorie> [00:29] <Miro81> i started installin my second linux .. and in the partition section it says that my sda has no mount point assigned :s whats does that mean
[09:04] <valorie> usaki: install kubuntu-restricted-extras
[09:06] <KubuntuNoob> hello
[09:06] <usaki> thanks i will try
[09:07] <KubuntuNoob> I just installed kubuntu. I previously used ubuntu for a while, but not much
[09:07] <KubuntuNoob> I'm more a windows user. Usually use windows 7
[09:07] <KubuntuNoob> is there any good tutorials to get me started using kubuntu?
[09:07] <KubuntuNoob> I'm totally lost here
[09:08] <KubuntuNoob> I know how to use gnome, more or less, but I am not familiar with KDE at all
[09:09] <KubuntuNoob> I installed kubuntu, because I think it has nicer graphics, with the plasma desktop thing and etc....
[09:09] <KubuntuNoob> any clues?
[09:12] <valorie> well, what do you want to do?
[09:13] <valorie> if you ask more specifically, it might be easier to guide you
[09:13] <valorie> it's just a tool like any distro/desktop is
[09:13] <valorie> for instance, do you want to listen to music?
[09:13]  * valorie is listening to I'm Outta Love by Anastacia on 20 Years on MTV: 2000 [Amarok]
[09:14] <valorie> are you a writer, web-devel, want to play games, what?
[09:14] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: well, just how to install programs, open programs, etc
[09:14] <KubuntuNoob> basic stuff, pretty much
[09:14] <KubuntuNoob> I'll do the rest myself
[09:14] <valorie> if you are on 10.10, Kpackagekit is rockin
[09:14] <KubuntuNoob> I am a developer
[09:14] <valorie> before that, I installed synaptic
[09:15] <KubuntuNoob> how do I know the version?
[09:15] <valorie> and of course apt-get is great if you know your packages
[09:15] <valorie> well, what did you install?
[09:15] <KubuntuNoob> I don't remember... :P
[09:15] <valorie> lol
[09:15] <valorie> !version
[09:15] <KubuntuNoob> last kubuntu, but a few months ago
[09:16] <KubuntuNoob> !shell
[09:16] <valorie> heh, you aren't a noob
[09:16] <valorie> :-)
[09:16] <KubuntuNoob> I am a noob at kde
[09:17] <valorie> well, I've been using it for a long time, but I'm not very technical
[09:17] <valorie> more of a writer and user
[09:17] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[09:17] <KubuntuNoob> code writer?
[09:17] <KubuntuNoob> or human-readable text writer?
[09:17] <Miro81> valorie: i jsut ignored that mount point..
[09:18] <KubuntuNoob> yes I have 10.10 - maverik
[09:18] <geekosopher> valorie: 0/
[09:18] <valorie> Miro81: I think that's your problem, although I don't KNOW that
[09:19] <valorie> human-readable, for sure
[09:19] <valorie> well, on a good day
[09:19] <valorie> lol
[09:19] <KubuntuNoob> so what if I want to download & install google chrome? will that be in the applications menu?
[09:19] <KubuntuNoob> where should I be looking for my new programs? which menu
[09:19] <valorie> yes, it will be in apps
[09:20] <KubuntuNoob> well, I think I'll learn by doing
[09:20] <valorie> although I just use the lil search, and add to my favs
[09:20] <valorie> or add to the toolbar
[09:20] <valorie> that's the thing about kde -- vERY configurable
[09:20] <KubuntuNoob> yeah, that's like win7
[09:20] <KubuntuNoob> the start menu
[09:21] <KubuntuNoob> I guess win7 stole it from kde, right?
[09:21] <valorie> my hubby uses it, but I've only printed from his puter
[09:21] <valorie> I assume so
[09:21] <valorie> he's not interested in linux, and I could care less about Win
[09:21] <valorie> lol
[09:23] <KubuntuNoob> what's a hubby?
[09:23] <valorie> sorry, my husband
[09:24] <geekosopher> lol :D
[09:24] <KubuntuNoob> oh ok
[09:25] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: so I assume you're a woman...
[09:25] <valorie> indeed
[09:25] <KubuntuNoob> and why do you use kubuntu?
[09:25] <geekosopher> rotfl
[09:26] <valorie> well -- I've always preferred KDE over Gnome
[09:26] <valorie> and I just sort of tried other distros until I tried Kub.
[09:26] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: is your job related to software?
[09:26] <valorie> and stayed here
[09:27] <valorie> I'm retired, but I'm working on the Handbook for Amarok right now
[09:27] <valorie> almost ready to publish
[09:27] <valorie> and write the Amarok Insider newsletter
[09:27] <valorie> and soon will start on Kub. docs
[09:27] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: what's amarok?
[09:27] <valorie> best music player app anywhere
[09:27] <valorie> :-)
[09:28] <valorie> http://amarok.kde.org
[09:28] <valorie> it's standard in Kub.
[09:28] <KubuntuNoob> oh yeah
[09:28] <valorie> so you have it, although you might have an older version
[09:28] <KubuntuNoob> is there a way to deactivate my trackpad?
[09:28] <valorie> yes, but.... I have a button
[09:29] <KubuntuNoob> I pluged a mouse, but my trackpad is locked only through software
[09:29] <valorie> so I don't know the command or systemsetting
[09:29] <KubuntuNoob> no hardware button :(
[09:29] <valorie> System Settings most likely
[09:29] <mbnoimi_> I asked u yesterday: how to enable socks proxy for whole KDE applications just like http proxy (I'm using KDE 4.5.1)
[09:29] <mbnoimi_> and I coulnd't find any answer in the web
[09:29] <valorie> mbnoimi_: you didn't ask ME, because I don't even know what a socks proxy is
[09:29] <valorie> lol
[09:29] <mbnoimi_> does kde support socks proxy?
[09:30] <valorie> I wouldn't know, sorry
[09:30] <valorie> I would assume that the ubuntu forum would be the best place to search and ask
[09:30] <valorie> although kubuntuforum is full of excellent people as well
[09:31] <valorie> !forums
[09:31] <mbnoimi_> valorie: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SOCKS
[09:32] <KubuntuNoob> so I downloaded chrome
[09:32] <KubuntuNoob> now how do I install it?
[09:32] <KubuntuNoob> I't in my home folder now
[09:32] <valorie> how did you download it?
[09:32] <mbnoimi_> ubottu: i ask u here becasue I've kubuntu not ubuntu !
[09:32] <KubuntuNoob> from the google webpage
[09:32] <valorie> you should have done that through 1. kpackagekit
[09:32] <KubuntuNoob> .deb
[09:33] <KubuntuNoob> neh
[09:33] <valorie> or 2. with apt-get
[09:33] <mbnoimi_> most ubuntu guys interest in Gnome not KDE
[09:33] <KubuntuNoob> I think the .deb google offers...
[09:33] <valorie> no, that isn't a good idea
[09:33] <valorie> I prefer Chromium, myself
[09:33] <valorie> but then I end up using FF anyway
[09:33] <valorie> still
[09:33] <KubuntuNoob> why is thta?
[09:33] <KubuntuNoob> why chromium and not chrome?
[09:34] <valorie> it's all free
[09:34] <valorie> and doesn't phone home
[09:34] <valorie> no tracking
[09:34] <valorie> not important to everyone, but it's what I prefer
[09:34] <valorie> they are both available in the repositories
[09:34] <valorie> and I would advise using those
[09:35] <KubuntuNoob> phone home??
[09:35] <valorie> I believe that Chrome comes with the Google Toolbar
[09:35] <valorie> which tracks your web use
[09:35] <valorie> for them, not for you
[09:36] <KubuntuNoob> I dont think so
[09:36] <KubuntuNoob> it uses google a lot, but dones't track you more
[09:36] <KubuntuNoob> than with any other browser
[09:36] <valorie> that would be a radical shift in their philosophy, then
[09:36] <KubuntuNoob> unless you check that in the osption
[09:36] <valorie> I use google a lot
[09:36] <valorie> I have no problem with Google
[09:36] <valorie> I just prefer to have more control
[09:37] <valorie> I'm not preaching, just telling you my opinion
[09:37] <KubuntuNoob> yea I know
[09:37] <valorie> however, I am giving you advice: use the repositories
[09:37] <valorie> not random debs
[09:37] <KubuntuNoob> chrome is not controlled like chromium is
[09:37] <KubuntuNoob> rigth?
[09:37] <valorie> other way around
[09:37] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[09:38] <valorie> chromium is free
[09:38] <valorie> chrome is google controlled
[09:38] <KubuntuNoob> I meant, by the community
[09:38] <valorie> yes
[09:39] <KubuntuNoob> I have a low res screen, is there a way to make all UIs use fewer pixels?
[09:39] <valorie> free to me means controlled by the community
[09:39] <KubuntuNoob> yea i know
[09:39] <valorie> hmmm, I don't know that
[09:39] <KubuntuNoob> I still don't understand why sizes are still tied to resolution
[09:39] <valorie> but you know about multiple desktops, right?
[09:40] <KubuntuNoob> ... why not make sizes resolution independant?
[09:40] <KubuntuNoob> yes I do
[09:40] <valorie> so you can have one for browsing, one for music, one for whatever
[09:40] <KubuntuNoob> yeah I know, but still
[09:40] <valorie> AND now you can set them up as activities
[09:40] <KubuntuNoob> I need smaller windows :(
[09:40] <KubuntuNoob> as activities?
[09:40] <valorie> and tie widgets and backgrounds and such to the activities
[09:41] <valorie> custom settings and all
[09:41] <KubuntuNoob> oh I see
[09:41] <valorie> i haven't had time to set any up yet
[09:41] <KubuntuNoob> I still have to install compiz
[09:41] <valorie> but they look pretty cool
[09:41] <KubuntuNoob> and the rotating cube and stuff
[09:41] <valorie> might change the way i use my desktop, if I experiement enough
[09:41] <valorie> well, that is one way to do changing, yes
[09:41] <KubuntuNoob> I am using linux just to learn the command line and linux stuff
[09:42] <KubuntuNoob> which I will need
[09:42] <valorie> that isn't tied to activities as such
[09:42] <KubuntuNoob> but I prefer win7 so far
[09:42] <valorie> so does my husband
[09:42] <valorie> oh, well
[09:42] <valorie> everyone should use what they prefer
[09:42] <valorie> it's not a religion
[09:42] <KubuntuNoob> well, why would you prefer kubuntu than win7 ?
[09:42] <valorie> freedom
[09:42] <valorie> community
[09:43] <KubuntuNoob> my problem with any linux distro is I can't use same programs I use in windows
[09:43] <valorie> win7 is just a product
[09:43] <valorie> I don't miss any win apps
[09:43] <valorie> did for a bit, but there is much better stuff out there
[09:43] <valorie> unless you are a big photoshop user
[09:43] <KubuntuNoob> and also, I find that in linux  you have to set up everything manually, which sucks up all your time installing apps
[09:44] <valorie> there is cool stuff in linux, but those big expensive apps do have lotsa value in them
[09:44] <valorie> eh
[09:44] <valorie> I don't spend much time at it at all
[09:44] <KubuntuNoob> well, I use many programs. I need to learn what PROs use, because that's what I should be using, even if I know the free alternatives too
[09:44] <valorie> it all depends on what you're doing
[09:44] <KubuntuNoob> for example, there's no such thing as "flash" for linux
[09:44] <Miro81> how can i change the resolution on a virtual machine?
[09:44] <valorie> many professionals use linux, all over the world
[09:45] <KubuntuNoob> yes, but usually coders
[09:45] <valorie> sure, I use flash every day
[09:45] <KubuntuNoob> low level coders...
[09:45] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: an old version, I guess
[09:45] <KubuntuNoob> flash 8 ?
[09:45] <valorie> I think you are misinformed
[09:45] <valorie> no idea, I don't like flash, and can't wait for html5
[09:45] <valorie> but everything I want in flash works
[09:46] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, I can't use flash cs5... or photoshop, unity3d, after effects
[09:46] <KubuntuNoob> etc, the stuff I use
[09:46] <Miro81> valorie: how can i change the resolution on a virtual machine?
[09:46] <valorie> Miro81: I don't know
[09:46] <valorie> if I knew, I would answer
[09:46] <Miro81> kk
[09:47] <KubuntuNoob> there's A LOT of windows specific programs that I cannot use in linux
[09:47] <kuttans> hello everybody, i would like to know how can i tweak nm settings from the backend n not from the gui
[09:48] <valorie> have you tried WINE?
[09:48] <valorie> or you can run stuff in a vm
[09:48] <kuttans> i mean particularly where the ppp configurations are set + or which file is used by nm to hold the config details
[09:48] <kuttans> for example i want to manually configure the dns for my mobile broadband and the nm is not having any option to do that
[09:48] <valorie> !nm
[09:48] <KubuntuNoob> yes wine is great, but it usually has problems with new apps
[09:49] <KubuntuNoob> it's like new apps were made NOT to run on wine, :P
[09:49] <valorie> ubottu doesn't know about nm, and neither do I, sorry
[09:49] <KubuntuNoob> and running on a VM means it can't use nice 3d graphics, etc
[09:49] <KubuntuNoob> which is what I do :S
[09:49] <valorie> well, that's why there is windows, to run win apps
[09:49] <kuttans> no one else available in the room than valorie,ubottu, kubuntunoob and me lolz
[09:50] <KubuntuNoob> xD
[09:50] <valorie> sometimes it's like that, kuttans
[09:50] <KubuntuNoob> yes, I can't find a way to use linux only
[09:50] <valorie> people might be asleep, or working
[09:50] <KubuntuNoob> I always end up using windows...
[09:50] <KubuntuNoob> can't get work done on ubuntu
[09:50] <valorie> which is fine - my husband enjoys it
[09:50] <valorie> I just feel the same way in Win
[09:51] <valorie> so annoying
[09:51] <kuttans> KubuntuNoob, which one is having a problem
[09:51] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: why is that?
[09:51] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: what?
[09:51] <valorie> the biggest annoyance is the littlest thing, really
[09:51] <kuttans> we need a different mindset to use linux
[09:51] <kuttans> i mean which app you find difficult to run in ubuntu
[09:51] <valorie> you have to select AND control C to copy text
[09:51] <valorie> drives me bonkers
[09:52] <valorie> I hate Word
[09:52] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: how else do you do it in linux distros?
[09:52] <kuttans> valorie, you can use ctrl +a to select all , its the normal nuance
[09:52] <valorie> it's so controlling
[09:52] <valorie> etc.
[09:52] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: how would you want to do it?
[09:52] <valorie> in linux, you select
[09:52] <valorie> so simple
[09:52] <KubuntuNoob> ?
[09:52] <valorie> select, paste
[09:52] <KubuntuNoob> selecting copies?
[09:52] <valorie> just like that
[09:52] <FloodBotK1> valorie: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[09:52] <valorie> yes
[09:52] <valorie> thanks, FloodBotK1
[09:52] <valorie> lol
[09:52] <KubuntuNoob> well, that means you can't select without loosing the copied stuff
[09:53] <KubuntuNoob> lol
[09:53] <KubuntuNoob> also, which text editor?
[09:53] <valorie> everywhere
[09:53] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[09:53] <valorie> except googledocs
[09:53] <valorie> where it doesn't work
[09:53] <KubuntuNoob> lol of course
[09:53] <valorie> again, drives me nuts
[09:53] <kuttans> and u can use ctrl+d to delete an entire line which is not a default in ms word
[09:54] <valorie> I've been using computers since before windows
[09:54] <KubuntuNoob> oh, that's the thing
[09:54] <KubuntuNoob> you're already used to non-windows stuff
[09:54] <valorie> I've used Macs too, and Atari, which btw was a cool machine, way ahead of its time
[09:54] <kuttans> no one noticed my question or ist true that no one faced this kinda prob?
[09:54] <valorie> but I used Win for..... 5 or 6 years
[09:55] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: what's your question?
[09:55] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: and linux, for how long?
[09:55] <valorie> since 2001 I think
[09:55] <valorie> Mandrake
[09:55] <valorie> :-)
[09:55] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[09:56] <KubuntuNoob> I've used windows my whole life... since 5, now I'm 17
[09:56] <valorie> kuttans: I saw your questions, but ubottu and me dunno
[09:56] <KubuntuNoob> so that's 12 years !! :S
[09:56] <valorie> I think you have a bit of tunnel vision then
[09:56] <KubuntuNoob> or maybe I'm mistaken
[09:56] <kuttans> n u using linxu now kubuntunoob?
[09:56] <KubuntuNoob> but anyways, windows is all the standard  I know
[09:57] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: I'm trying
[09:57] <valorie> 12+5 does equal 17
[09:57] <valorie> lol
[09:57] <valorie> windows isn't a standard
[09:57] <valorie> they are just a monopoly
[09:57] <KubuntuNoob> I've been trying to use ubuntu for 2 years or so
[09:57] <valorie> and I'm from M$ town
[09:57] <kuttans> then you are growing now....to use linux you need to have a broadmind
[09:57] <KubuntuNoob> but I just can't
[09:57] <valorie> I live south of Seattle
[09:57] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: yes I know, but I can fix that using some piracy magic ;)
[09:57] <valorie> of course you can
[09:58] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: yeah I guess
[09:58] <kuttans> this is the mindset those who use windows have...
[09:58] <valorie> one can learn anything, if you decide to do it, and keep working at it
[09:58] <KubuntuNoob> yes
[09:58] <kuttans> but they forget the amount of work go behind those programs
[09:58] <KubuntuNoob> but I'm unsure if I'm making the right decisions
[09:58] <valorie> I couldn't stand the attitude of the M$ company, and so no longer wanted to use their software
[09:59] <KubuntuNoob> since using linux means lots of learning time, whereas I could be doing something else if I used windows
[09:59] <valorie> if others want to use it, fine
[09:59] <KubuntuNoob> not learning how to use the OS
[09:59] <valorie> freedom and community are values which are important to me
[09:59] <KubuntuNoob> well, yes, of course
[09:59] <kuttans> but noob what you wanted is all to do normal stuff linux dont ask you to learn a lot
[09:59] <valorie> learning is also valuable
[10:00] <valorie> M$ doesn't promote freedom, or community
[10:00] <kuttans> but if you want to do something extra and want it to do without having a fear of stealing then linux is the best way to go
[10:00] <KubuntuNoob> but my goal is not doing stuff I think is *ethical* or *right*. My goal now is to learn in order to be a Pro and get some income ;)
[10:00] <valorie> then I fear you won't make it in the linux world
[10:00] <kuttans> then select a path and just concentrate on that and keep your thinking...its good
[10:00] <KubuntuNoob> really?
[10:01] <KubuntuNoob> well, I guess I need to learn unix commands and stuff
[10:01] <valorie> !unix
[10:01] <KubuntuNoob> also learn some linux stuff, in case I need to make use of the OS
[10:01] <valorie> huh
[10:01] <KubuntuNoob> well I meant GNU software
[10:01] <valorie> !linux
[10:01] <valorie> piffle
[10:01] <KubuntuNoob> packaged in most linux distros and mac OSX, etc
[10:02] <valorie> there are lots of good guides to unix commands
[10:02] <KubuntuNoob> I should also learn some of Gnome and KDE, but mostly the commands, and bash
[10:02] <KubuntuNoob> does mac OSX also use bash for the command line?
[10:03] <valorie> dunno -- it is built on unix
[10:03] <valorie> bsd, I think
[10:03] <kuttans> almost all the os flavours came from unix
[10:04] <valorie> sure, it was the ancestor
[10:04] <kuttans> even dos uses some of its concepts
[10:04] <KubuntuNoob> I've been told using commands is not so difficult, but I think it's archaic, since all of them have different naming conventions for parameters, and you have to know exactly what parameters to use
[10:04] <KubuntuNoob> or yo
[10:04] <valorie> archaic?
[10:04] <KubuntuNoob> or you have to use man pages, --help, which slow you down...
[10:04] <valorie> rather fast, simple, efficient
[10:04] <valorie> oh good grief
[10:05] <KubuntuNoob> what I mean is after knowing better alternatives, like IntelliSense, or GUIs with keyboard shortcuts
[10:05] <KubuntuNoob> commands are crap :P
[10:05]  * valorie is going back to work
[10:05] <kuttans> you can think of this way, all of us learn same things, but the perception changes with everyone, so the way we do things changes a bit and only a bit
[10:05] <KubuntuNoob> well we don't all learn the same...
[10:05] <KubuntuNoob> wut?
[10:06] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, you might not know what I'm talking about. you probably think command line commands are the faster way to do stuff
[10:06] <plan_rich> KubuntuNoob: well if you dont know the commands, i think gui will be faster, but i only use commands cause it is just the fastes way i have found yet to do things
[10:06] <kuttans> i mean in life, when comes to problem solving, you can see the pattern
[10:06] <KubuntuNoob> I think that's untrue since modern GUIs and other technologies have been invented
[10:07] <kuttans> it depends again, sometimes gui are better, and sometimes command line is
[10:07] <KubuntuNoob> plan_rich: well yes but what if you need to use a new command? you have to use a man page
[10:07] <kuttans> if you want to make those man pages a gui its possible, lolz
[10:07] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: yes of course. what I mean is GUIs can be better than most command lines
[10:08] <KubuntuNoob> ?
[10:08] <plan_rich> yep, but you have to understand what the gui does, that also needs some time
[10:08] <KubuntuNoob> how?
[10:08] <KubuntuNoob> plan_rich: usually it's fairly simple
[10:08] <KubuntuNoob> you have tooltips which tell you pretty fast what to do
[10:08] <KubuntuNoob> nicely designed GUIs are REALLY easy to use
[10:08] <kuttans> write a small c program and just run the man command for the given command lolz
[10:09] <KubuntuNoob> whereas commands don't tell you what to do until you open the man page
[10:09] <KubuntuNoob> reading docs for using a program is slower than nicely designed GUIs
[10:09] <KubuntuNoob> intuitive guis / commands
[10:09] <plan_rich> KubuntuNoob: well if i think of office finding a command that creates a footnote (if you have never done it before) it might be slow too. Though office is not a good comparison to cmd line :)
[10:09] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: ?
[10:09] <kuttans> but still you have to take sometime to understand a gui
[10:10] <kuttans> no matter how well it is designed
[10:10] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: no. usually you don't need much time for a GUI
[10:10] <KubuntuNoob> usually
[10:10] <KubuntuNoob> GUIs are increasingly more intuitive with time
[10:10] <KubuntuNoob> look at iOS
[10:10] <kuttans> conventions can give you a bit faster approach but thats in the case of command lines too
[10:11] <kuttans> for example in a gui we all know that File will be the starting point of anything which is new
[10:11] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: yes. but commands still don't tell you what you can and can't do
[10:11] <KubuntuNoob> you HAVE to read docs
[10:11] <jhohn> I think it depends on what to do, like everytime
[10:11] <KubuntuNoob> docs = slow
[10:11] <kuttans> and its same with command lines too, anything --help will give you the help
[10:11] <KubuntuNoob> yes, you first need to do that
[10:12] <plan_rich> KubuntuNoob: whats your profession? if you are not software engineer or working in the IT branch, you might better stick to GUI. But I'm software engineer and i know what i need and thats cmd line
[10:12] <KubuntuNoob> and still then, you can make typos :S
[10:12] <KubuntuNoob> there's no autocompletion for parameters...
[10:12] <jhohn> If I want to do something fast, I use the cmd line
[10:12] <KubuntuNoob> plan_rich: I'm just a noob student
[10:12] <plan_rich> informatics?
[10:12] <plan_rich> informatiks?
[10:13] <kuttans> you master any art with experience......
[10:13] <KubuntuNoob> look: command lines could be better than GUIs, but you need autocompletion EVERYWHERE, and also dropdown menus for all parameters and commands
[10:13] <KubuntuNoob> that would kick ass
[10:13] <KubuntuNoob> plan_rich: I'm in highschool :O
[10:14] <KubuntuNoob> well but the problem is command line programs and their man pages don't follow a convention, so to make such dropdown menus with auto, completion, you would need to make that manually, right? do you see an automatized way of doing this?
[10:16] <KubuntuNoob> how do you know that --x means close after doing something? it should say that in a droptown when you are writing "--", showing you all possible parameters and what they mean, right?
[10:16] <valorie> certainly there is command completion in bash
[10:16] <valorie> geez
[10:16] <valorie> tab key
[10:16] <KubuntuNoob> then you would never need man pages anymore unless it's really complex stuff
[10:16] <valorie> arrow keys
[10:16] <valorie> lord
[10:16] <FloodBotK1> valorie: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[10:17] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: I said parameter completion, not command completion, LOL
[10:17] <KubuntuNoob> command completion is very simple. the problem is when completing parameters, and afaik, it's very hard to solve this problem
[10:18] <kuttans> noob, you dont need a hammer to kill a ant.....
[10:18] <KubuntuNoob> ?
[10:18] <kuttans> so you use command line where the prob can be solved with command line alone,
[10:18] <kuttans> and you will use a gui where it is necessary
[10:19] <KubuntuNoob> look at new languages, they all have code completion because that's what makes coding productive, NOT reading lots of docs to do simple stuff
[10:19] <plan_rich> well who told you that using a computer is just simple? sometimes you need alot of knowledge to complete a task.
[10:19] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: well, command line should be improved ASAP
[10:19] <KubuntuNoob> plan_rich: you should not. we are trying to make computers simple, right?
[10:20] <kuttans> simple for whom?
[10:20] <jhohn> Bash has a programmable completion and there a packages available for parameter completion for many commands
[10:20] <rork> Choice ftw, use commandline if you want/can, use GUI if you have to
[10:20] <KubuntuNoob> it's not the 80s... we can do better!
[10:20] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: packages for each command?
[10:20] <kuttans> tell me are you trying to select computer as your career?
[10:21] <KubuntuNoob> rork: on linux I usually have no other choice than using command lines
[10:21] <jhohn> if one is missing you may add it
[10:21] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: what? computer as career? thats not a career :P
[10:21] <kuttans> and if yes then you should not be talking like this, bcoz if you are a programmer you have the job of making computers easy for others
[10:22] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: uh... do they add dropdowns for parameters?
[10:22] <KubuntuNoob> kuttans: not really. that's not what all programmers do
[10:22] <KubuntuNoob> :O he left
[10:22] <rork> KubuntuNoob: then I wonder what you're trying to do, I think there's a lot of stuff that can be done trough GUI and there's more to come, we can't have everything instantly.
[10:22] <jhohn> we are talking of cmd line, how do you add a dropdown to a cmd line?
[10:23] <jhohn> if you want a dropdown for everything get yourself a MAC
[10:23] <KubuntuNoob> rork: yes I know. I'm just saying that the fact they made command line programs this way, with so much freedom, is now a problem.
[10:23] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: by modifying the interface of the command line program
[10:24] <KubuntuNoob> you can't add a dropdown to a terminal?
[10:24] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: everything should have a dropdown, yes. that's why macs are said to have a nice interface
[10:24] <jhohn> depends on the terminal, I do not want that if I am connected remote to a machine somewhere in Usbekistan
[10:24] <KubuntuNoob> :P
[10:25] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: why not?
[10:25] <jhohn> I want it simple!
[10:25] <KubuntuNoob> yes, dropdowns are not complex
[10:25] <KubuntuNoob> LOL
[10:25] <jhohn> I know what to do and do not need any rubbish arround
[10:25] <valorie> lordy, I sure got spoiled by my GCI students
[10:25] <valorie> smart, motivated,
[10:26] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: then you could disable the dropdowns, but not everybody knows all commands and parameters, xD
[10:26] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: ?
[10:26] <valorie> heh
[10:26] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: I didn't understand that
[10:26] <jhohn> so, if you do not know it you might learn it
[10:26] <valorie> your attitude is everything that is wrong
[10:26] <jhohn> or use a GUI
[10:26] <valorie> well, maybe right for you
[10:27] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you could learn it while having the dropdowns ON
[10:27] <valorie> best thing for me is to shut my mouth now
[10:27] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: dropdowns d.on't get in your way. you can easily ignore them for the ones you already know
[10:28] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: why?
[10:28] <valorie> I can't continue to converse with you and yet follow the code of conduct, sorry
[10:29] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: I mean, the fact that you know 'some' commands and their parameters, doesn't mean you should know all of them, or that anybody else should learn them
[10:29] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: LOL
[10:30] <KubuntuNoob> the reason dopdowns would be cool, is because they would let you use commands only once in your life as easily as if you were a guru and an expert using them...
[10:32] <jhohn> if i only want to use the command once, its no problem to have a look in the manpage
[10:32] <KubuntuNoob> the only reason I see for you guys getting angry at my reasoning, is that this would mean anybody, even noobs could use those commands, and thus gurus would've wasted a lot of their time learning them the hard way... but c'mon, that's how everything is... new technology outdates old tech... and makes things easier for noobs...
[10:32] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: if all you do is use commands once, it IS a problem
[10:33] <KubuntuNoob> I'm not saying you use only 1 new command. I'm saying if you use 20 new commands, but only once!!!
[10:33] <jhohn> keep it simple
[10:33] <KubuntuNoob> which I usually do, at least when programming
[10:33] <KubuntuNoob> that's what I mean, keep it simple
[10:33] <valorie> you are arguing for ignorance
[10:33] <valorie> and laziness
[10:33] <KubuntuNoob> no need to read lots of docs, just use a simple dropdown
[10:33] <valorie> oh good grief
[10:34] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: well if you had a reasonable argument ...
[10:34] <KubuntuNoob> you would say it
[10:34] <jhohn> if this is your problem, use a GUI
[10:34] <valorie> power is POWER
[10:34] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: guis are not the same
[10:34] <valorie> it requires intelligence
[10:34] <valorie> not ease
[10:34] <rork> a commandline with dropdowns = GUI from my point of view
[10:34] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: not really. intelligence != old styled command lines
[10:34] <valorie> grrrr
[10:35] <jhohn> a cmd line with dropdown is just like a GUI
[10:35] <KubuntuNoob> rork: well yes, if you think of command lines as just plain text
[10:35] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: yes
[10:35] <KubuntuNoob> the best of both worlds
[10:35] <KubuntuNoob> ;)
[10:35] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: I have no problem listening to opposite arguments, but make them! :P
[10:36] <rork> how else should I see a command line then?
[10:36] <KubuntuNoob> yes, using dropdowns is slightly more complex than plain text regarding graphics
[10:36] <KubuntuNoob> but not regarding usability
[10:36] <valorie> documents are distilled knowledge and experience
[10:36] <valorie> but you don't want to read them!
[10:36] <KubuntuNoob> rork: ?
[10:36] <ryrych> good morning
[10:37] <rork> if you think of command lines as just plain text ? What's the other option? Give me a dropdown, a manpage or --help on this one :)
[10:37] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: docs are just old-styled dropdowns
[10:37] <valorie> no
[10:37] <valorie> they are not
[10:37] <KubuntuNoob> more accurately, dropdowns would be like new docs
[10:37] <valorie> education isn't a set of instructions
[10:37] <valorie> it is a way of getting you to THINK
[10:37] <valorie> guis can't do that
[10:37] <KubuntuNoob> dropdowns can add all those docs
[10:38] <valorie> guis trap you into one way of doing things
[10:38] <valorie> no, they cannot
[10:38] <KubuntuNoob> put a brief doc in the dropdown, and a link to a longer description
[10:38] <valorie> sorry, but your lack of experience is
[10:38] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: ?
[10:38] <smoothtaste> lol
[10:38] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: I don't see ywh
[10:38] <valorie> sometimes, for very simple things, that could be a possibility
[10:39] <valorie> but for real use, such as administering networks
[10:39] <valorie> that could NEVER work
[10:39] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: lots of them are really simple things
[10:39] <KubuntuNoob> if they are more complex, you NEED docs
[10:39] <KubuntuNoob> if they aren't, dropdowns should suffice, right?
[10:40] <valorie> not even web development can be done the way you say
[10:40] <rork> if they are easy and intuitive who needs dropdowns?
[10:40] <KubuntuNoob> but lots of commands don't need docs really, or SHOULDN'T need docs, because they could be made more easily usable...
[10:40] <valorie> not everything is easy and intuitive
[10:40] <KubuntuNoob> rork: dropdowns increase productivity
[10:40] <KubuntuNoob> rork: I already explained that :|
[10:40] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: sure
[10:40] <valorie> in corner cases
[10:40] <rork> not in my world
[10:41] <KubuntuNoob> rork: ??
[10:41] <ryrych> I wouldn't disturb your interesting chat ;) but I've got a problem :)
[10:41] <KubuntuNoob> ryrych: no problem :P
[10:41] <smoothtaste> I'm with ryrych
[10:41] <smoothtaste> :)
[10:41] <rork> ryrych: give us a break, go for it :)
[10:42] <smoothtaste> This is interesting enough to break away from Black Ops
[10:42] <ryrych> http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=92306 I wrote about it in KDE forum
[10:42] <ryrych> but nobody has helped so far :(
[10:43] <smoothtaste> I also had that problem in 10.10
[10:43] <ryrych> smoothtaste: do you also have problems with flickering when DE are on?
[10:43] <smoothtaste> Yes.
[10:43] <smoothtaste> Toshiba?
[10:44] <ryrych> no, Dell PC but with ATI Radeon
[10:44] <smoothtaste> Aha!
[10:44] <ryrych> I was said that there was regression in drivers
[10:44] <jhohn> ATI Radeon is a Problem, mostly always
[10:44] <smoothtaste> I carried my kernel over from 10.04, solved my problems.
[10:44] <smoothtaste> Could be a coincidence however
[10:45] <smoothtaste> but 2.6.32-27 worked on my end
[10:45] <smoothtaste> 64 bit?
[10:45] <KubuntuNoob> kubuntu comes with flash 10 ?
[10:45] <ryrych> smoothtaste: until 10.10 it was OK
[10:45] <ryrych> nope, 32
[10:45] <smoothtaste> ah
[10:45] <smoothtaste> Mine was fine until 10.10 as well
[10:45] <smoothtaste> Carried my kernel over
[10:45] <smoothtaste> Worked fine for awhile
[10:46] <smoothtaste> Then my tinkering screwed me :)
[10:46] <ryrych> have you tested natty?
[10:46] <smoothtaste> I just went back to 10.04
[10:46] <ryrych> it uses new ATI driver
[10:47] <rork> KubuntuNoob: As I understand you will have a dropdown: [rm,mv,cp] [-R|Recursive,-v|Verbose,-|interactive,none] [-R|Recursive,-v|Verbose,-|interactive,none] [-R|Recursive,-v|Verbose,-|interactive,none] [file1, file2, f*,fi*,fil*] besides having to read all the dropdowns and select the right choise everytime I want to remove/move/copy something selecting costs time. It's faster to do `mv -R ./*`, many parameters (e.g. -R, -v) are shared amongs most
[10:47] <rork>  of the basic commands. Dropdowns would prevent me from learning them. If I type <command> --help, it gives me a quick overview of what the command does and it's options. I see everything at once and don't have to go trough every dropdown looking for a command, reading a popup what it does. That way the classic method sounds more productive to me.
[10:47] <FloodBotK1> rork: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[10:47] <smoothtaste> ryrych: did you test natty
[10:48] <jhohn> often older ATI cards are not supported anymore with newer ATI drivers
[10:48] <ryrych> no, I tried with daily build but got kernel panic :D
[10:48] <smoothtaste> LOL
[10:49] <ryrych> jhohn: yeah, they abandoned older cards (proprietary drivers) :(
[10:49] <KubuntuNoob> rork: do you know anything like that? if you did, you would know it's always better to have the dropdown, because you can as well not use it ;)
[10:49] <ryrych> jhohn: do you think NVIDIA is better for KDE, Linux?
[10:49] <KubuntuNoob> rork: you don't NEED to click on dropdown items LOL
[10:50] <KubuntuNoob> rork: I mean, you can start writing the file name, and the dropdown would update acordingly
[10:51] <KubuntuNoob> until you only have to type the last part of the text, where you can just choose the appropriate dropdown menu item
[10:51] <jhohn> don't know, I also have a ati radeon and always had problems with it
[10:51] <valorie> that already happens in bash
[10:51] <KubuntuNoob> also, to choose them you don't even need the mouse, jusst arrow key
[10:51] <KubuntuNoob> valorie: yes. so what?
[10:51] <valorie> also already in bash
[10:51] <KubuntuNoob> so what?
[10:51] <rork> ok, fair enough, but I still feel it prevents me from learning. Do you have an example program that works that way?
[10:52] <KubuntuNoob> I'm NOT talking about bash, LOL
[10:52] <KubuntuNoob> wtf
[10:52] <valorie> anyway, actually going to bed
[10:52] <KubuntuNoob> rork: you are still learning, the docs are still there, they are now dropdowns
[10:52] <KubuntuNoob> rork: right? I know that from using those dropdowns in visual studio / monodevelop
[10:53] <KubuntuNoob> and yes, they are meant for coders, not users, but they're great!
[10:53] <KubuntuNoob> they are a huge improvement
[10:53] <ryrych> is there any way to try ati driver from natty in maverick? and is it safe?
[10:53] <KubuntuNoob> rork: have you tried such a thing?
[10:54] <smoothtaste> add the repo ryrych
[10:56] <rork> KubuntuNoob: no, primarily trying to visualize the concept.
[10:56] <rork> It probably comes down to personal preference and experience once more...
[10:56] <KubuntuNoob> rork: well, I previously coded without this dropdowns, but this make my life a lot easier
[10:57] <jhohn> Noob: have you tried bash-completion?
[10:57] <ryrych> smoothtaste: yes, I know but I'm looking for something official and not much cutting-edge (to not exacerbate a problem) :)
[10:57] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, yes you can get away with it by reading docs, but that doesn't mean it's the right way
[10:57] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: not much, but commands are not part of bash :S
[10:58] <jhohn> bash-completion is not part of bash
[10:58] <KubuntuNoob> yeah
[10:58] <KubuntuNoob> but I mean, they might be completion, but still not dropdowns :P
[10:58] <KubuntuNoob> can you see what each parameter means without opening the docs?
[10:59] <jhohn> and if it would be a dropdown you would see it? no.
[10:59] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: why not? of course you would
[10:59] <KubuntuNoob> ...
[11:00] <KubuntuNoob> -v = Verbose
[11:00] <KubuntuNoob> etc
[11:01] <KubuntuNoob> -v = Verbose (shows a lot of information while doing stuff)
[11:01] <KubuntuNoob> why not ?
[11:01] <Tm_T> not always
[11:01] <KubuntuNoob> Tm_T: what are you talking about?
[11:01] <Tm_T> I have no idea
[11:01] <jhohn> oh yes, thats very clear if you have ~50 parameters.
[11:02] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you should NOT have 50 parameters
[11:02] <jhohn> ls has 52
[11:02] <KubuntuNoob> and if you do, that's still pretty clear compared to no dropdown at all
[11:02] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: ls has 52, but you can order by most used ;)
[11:03] <jhohn> and (most) parameters do not need any assertion
[11:03] <KubuntuNoob> what do you mean?
[11:03] <jhohn> the parameter name tells very clear what it do
[11:04] <KubuntuNoob> lol
[11:04] <KubuntuNoob> example?
[11:04] <jhohn>  --human-readable
[11:04] <KubuntuNoob> yeah, those are cool parameters
[11:04] <jhohn>  --show-control-chars
[11:05] <jhohn> --group-directories-first
[11:05] <KubuntuNoob> that's how they should be, can you autocomplete those?
[11:05] <jhohn> yes
[11:05] <KubuntuNoob> if you don't have code completion, that sucks
[11:05] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: without installing any addon?
[11:05] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, it comes with bash?
[11:06] <jhohn> again, KISS - keep it simple, stupid
[11:06] <KubuntuNoob> yes, ls has autocomplete, cool
[11:06] <jhohn> if you want completion, install the addon
[11:06] <KubuntuNoob> but now how do I get the list of parameters?
[11:06] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: in the terminal I have, I have that completion...
[11:06] <KubuntuNoob> but how can I get the list of all parameters??
[11:07] <KubuntuNoob> also, I still don't know what --human-readable does...
[11:07] <jhohn> ls --<TAB><TAB>
[11:07] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: that's a good example of a text-based dropdown, LOL
[11:07] <KubuntuNoob> but a GUI based one would be cooler
[11:08] <jhohn> no
[11:08] <smoothtaste> what does --human-readable do? not familiar with that one
[11:08] <KubuntuNoob> anyways, you dont have any description there :/
[11:08] <KubuntuNoob> a description of the parameter
[11:08] <KubuntuNoob> you need that too!
[11:08] <jhohn> a cmd line is a text based tool, if you want izt gui based, use a gui
[11:08] <smoothtaste> +1
[11:08] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: no. a command line is where you type commands
[11:09] <KubuntuNoob> it doesn't mean it should all be text-based like in the beginnings
[11:09] <KubuntuNoob> that attitude is lame lol.
[11:09] <smoothtaste> I disagree
[11:09] <KubuntuNoob> I mean command line itself doesn't mean text-based
[11:09] <KubuntuNoob> doesn't imply text-only
[11:09] <smoothtaste> I think Terminals and all similiar subjects SHOULD be text-based
[11:09] <jhohn> human-readable shows sizes in human readable form (k, m, g) like in most other linux/unix commands
[11:09] <smoothtaste> If you're not a power user, why are you in there?
[11:10] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: that should say next to the parameter in the list...
[11:10] <KubuntuNoob> or in a dropdown
[11:10] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: ??
[11:10] <smoothtaste> Making everything into a GUI would most likely increase the amount of dependency errors, etc. (kernel panics) in the long run by the end user.
[11:10] <KubuntuNoob> maybe yes.
[11:11] <jhohn> no, it should say it where you find it, in the man page
[11:11] <KubuntuNoob> anyways, text-based dropdowns would work too
[11:11] <jhohn> I want to use it, not learn it
[11:11] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: not really. that slows you down
[11:11] <smoothtaste> Depending on the user.
[11:11] <jhohn> if I want to learn it I have a look in the docs
[11:11] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you can use it while learning. it's the 21st cen!ury!
[11:11] <smoothtaste> If you don't want to learn it go back to windows.
[11:11] <KubuntuNoob> 'century
[11:12] <KubuntuNoob> you're acting like if you had to learn OR use stuff
[11:12] <smoothtaste> Should be both, yes?
[11:12] <KubuntuNoob> of course
[11:12] <KubuntuNoob> why would you learn something if you're not using it?
[11:12] <smoothtaste> Very true.
[11:12] <smoothtaste> On the other hand
[11:12] <KubuntuNoob> that's old-styled, and slows people down. it's been proved
[11:12] <smoothtaste> alsa handles my audio
[11:13] <smoothtaste> Why learn how it works?
[11:13] <smoothtaste> Off-topic
[11:13] <smoothtaste> :)
[11:13] <jhohn> if I have an explanation with every parameter it would be very confusing/unclear because of the length of the list
[11:13] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: you shouldn't learn how it works ;)
[11:13] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you should be able to choose to show it or not
[11:13] <smoothtaste> In time I will, I'm going over Dalvik VM more than anything right now.
[11:13] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: if you don't want it at that time, then don't use it
[11:14] <KubuntuNoob> but usually you'll need it
[11:14] <KubuntuNoob> for new commands
[11:14] <jhohn> I do not need it
[11:14] <jhohn> I can take a look in the man page
[11:14] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Have you ever ran Gentoo?
[11:14] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you don't need a screen either
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: you can print everything to paper
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> of course
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> that is pretty fast, yea
[11:15] <jhohn> ohhh, bad example
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> but compared to printing to screen... it's crap
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> that's the same
[11:15] <jhohn> no
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> how isn't it the same?
[11:15] <KubuntuNoob> yes you don't need visual feedbackf, you can memorize stuf
[11:16] <KubuntuNoob> and then print the result to paper
[11:16] <KubuntuNoob> that works for some people
[11:16] <jhohn> no
[11:16] <KubuntuNoob> but visual feedback / help works BETTER
[11:16] <KubuntuNoob> that's all I'm suggesting
[11:16] <smoothtaste> Other people, like myself, can't just print stuff out. It has to be hardwired into my memory.
[11:16] <jhohn> yes, but what visiuall feedback i need depends on what i do
[11:16] <KubuntuNoob> and you keep saying 'i can just print the result to paper' that's enough for me
[11:17] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: standard visual feedback, like the one you're getting right now
[11:17] <KubuntuNoob> it's not personalized visual feedback
[11:17] <smoothtaste> I hope this rom doesn't compile so I can keep observing this conversation.
[11:17] <KubuntuNoob> xD
[11:18] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, it's more or less a good analogy
[11:18] <jhohn> in a cmd line i do not need any dropdowns
[11:18] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: not NEED
[11:18] <KubuntuNoob> just like you don't need a screen
[11:18] <KubuntuNoob> you can get away with it with a printer, like in the old times
[11:18] <jhohn> in a cmd line i do not want any dropdowns
[11:18] <smoothtaste> I don't know about you, but I NEED a screen. :p
[11:18] <smoothtaste> I'm too young for that.
[11:19] <jhohn> I'm to old for that.
[11:19] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: that's like saying you don't want a screen, just because printers are simpler
[11:19] <jhohn> no, screens are simpler, thats why  I use a screen
[11:19] <KubuntuNoob> yes, using a printer is more simple, but a screen is far better
[11:19] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn, lol are you serious?
[11:20] <jhohn> yes
[11:20] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: printers are far more primitive
[11:20] <KubuntuNoob> screens are a modern invention
[11:20] <KubuntuNoob> with that reasoning, a GUI dropdown is far simpler than a CLI interface
[11:20] <KubuntuNoob> because if you obviate the underlying layers of technology
[11:20] <jhohn> what you mean is a slate not a printer
[11:20] <KubuntuNoob> and only look at the last one
[11:21] <KubuntuNoob> if you only look at the last layer, GUI is easier to use than CLI sometimes
[11:21] <KubuntuNoob> for making your program
[11:21] <KubuntuNoob> specially if you had to maker your own terminal / console
[11:22] <KubuntuNoob> in a GUI based world xD
[11:22] <smoothtaste> stupid cm-lunch
[11:22] <KubuntuNoob> well, you can always try the new shiny invention called 'screen' before deciding for the old printer
[11:23] <KubuntuNoob> wait, how long have we been discussing?
[11:23] <KubuntuNoob> :S
[11:23] <smoothtaste> Well guys I compiled my vendor tree wrong. Ended up with buzz.mk.eng instead of heroc.eng -> keep this going
[11:25] <jhohn> new shiny invention called 'screen'? yes very new.
[11:25] <smoothtaste> Being a noob is so much fun sometimes :S
[11:25] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: ? are you serious? I'm using an analogy...
[11:26] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: I meant the code completion with dropdowns + GUIs xD
[11:26] <KubuntuNoob> screen = that. printer = text-based no code completion nor dropdowns CLI
[11:27] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: You must've used a Xerox PARC/Alto eh?
[11:27] <jhohn> a screen is pixel based
[11:27] <jhohn> :o)
[11:28] <jhohn> a printer also
[11:28] <jhohn> ;o)
[11:28] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: no
[11:28] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: LOL so?
[11:28] <jhohn> so, there is no difference ...
[11:28] <smoothtaste> lol, just had the feeling you'd been around awhile.
[11:28] <KubuntuNoob> there is
[11:28] <jhohn> no difference
[11:28] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: a printer is much slower at refresh rates ;)
[11:29] <KubuntuNoob> lol wtf are you talking about now?
[11:29]  * jhohn needs some food
[11:30] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: are you trying to win a discussion by changing topic without making sense ?
[11:30] <KubuntuNoob> :( I don't like when that happens ;)
[11:30] <jhohn> no, I would never do so
[11:30] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[11:31] <smoothtaste> lol
[11:31] <referee> :)
[11:31] <referee> Game ON!
[11:31] <KubuntuNoob> :O
[11:31] <jhohn> we just have different thougts about what might be in a cmd line and we can discuss this until next year
[11:32] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[11:32] <jhohn> but I do not like to
[11:32] <smoothtaste> You could discuss this until the end of time.
[11:32] <jhohn> I am hungry and need some food now
[11:32] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[11:33] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: What's your computer background? Programming?
[11:33] <KubuntuNoob> it's like with the screen vs printer. you can turn the screen off if you want, but you can't keep others from using screens because yo
[11:33] <KubuntuNoob>  don't like them
[11:33] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: yes, programming, 3d art, mu
[11:33] <KubuntuNoob> s
[11:33] <KubuntuNoob> music, etc
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> I hate this... my
[11:34] <smoothtaste> Makes sense.
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> text keeps being erased :S
[11:34] <jhohn> oh, befor I forget, I am a network engineer
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> by some unknown keyb
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> oard shorcut
[11:34] <smoothtaste> lol
[11:34] <smoothtaste> On a laptop?
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> yeah
[11:34] <smoothtaste> Keep your thumbs away from the pad.
[11:34] <smoothtaste> :D
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> yeah :(
[11:34] <smoothtaste> Hate it
[11:34] <KubuntuNoob> I can't disable it... no hardware button
[11:35] <smoothtaste> I know, I've been dealing with it for about a year and a half now
[11:35] <KubuntuNoob> jhohn: network engineer? you're more theoretical than practical, right?
[11:35] <smoothtaste> Occasionally switching pages in IRC clients, etc. Putting text where it DOESN'T need to be.
[11:35] <Nierok> Hello
[11:35] <KubuntuNoob> usually, stuff is not 'easy' to use, I u  the commands. or you use them a lot, or you have to learn all the docs. lots of them
[11:35] <KubuntuNoob> right?
[11:36] <KubuntuNoob> for networking commands that is
[11:38] <KubuntuNoob> but there are more simple commands... they should've organized them better
[11:38] <Nierok> i can't start my kubuntu, there is a button "signing xxx in ...." and below it is an unknown error, i think it was 127, it doesn't start and i can't move the mouse
[11:38] <KubuntuNoob> there are lots of commands, and they all have their own conventions, don't have really intuitive names or parameters
[11:38] <smoothtaste> 10.10?
[11:38] <Nierok> yes
[11:39] <smoothtaste> can you alt + f2
[11:39] <jhohn_> Noob: no, practical, designing networks and testing them
[11:39] <jhohn_> away now
[11:39] <Nierok> i try
[11:39] <smoothtaste> whats the other one, ctrl alt f1?
[11:39] <Nierok> what to do then? i booted now from disc
[11:39] <smoothtaste> I haven't had to open tty in awhile
[11:40] <smoothtaste> Did you recently update?
[11:40] <Nierok> Yes
[11:40] <smoothtaste> As in today?
[11:40] <Nierok> I made it before and rebootet then
[11:40] <Nierok> doesn't start...
[11:41] <smoothtaste> Were you on 10.04 LTS?
[11:42] <KubuntuNoob> oh fuck, I started 'compiz' and then closed it. now I don't have windows manager
[11:42] <KubuntuNoob> what should I do?
[11:42] <Nierok> Idk, it just said "177 updates available", i installed them all
[11:42] <smoothtaste> ;p;
[11:42] <smoothtaste> alt f2
[11:42] <KubuntuNoob> no I mean
[11:42] <smoothtaste> konsole
[11:42] <KubuntuNoob> my windows don't have a bar on top
[11:42] <smoothtaste> compiz
[11:42] <KubuntuNoob> yes what should I write on console?
[11:42] <smoothtaste> I think, I don't use compiz
[11:43] <smoothtaste> but maybe
[11:43] <smoothtaste> killall
[11:43] <KubuntuNoob> alt+f2 doesn't do anythin!!
[11:43] <KubuntuNoob> i can't open a console either
[11:43] <KubuntuNoob> :S
[11:43] <smoothtaste> ctrl alt del!
[11:43] <smoothtaste> lol
[11:43] <smoothtaste> logout and login
[11:44] <smoothtaste> Nierok: I have had several issues with updates lately on the 10.10 front, mostly driver related, some user related. :p
[11:44] <smoothtaste> I think our *my* hardware support is being dropped in newer drivers.
[11:45] <Nierok> I have to format again? :/
[11:45] <smoothtaste> Maybe not
[11:45] <smoothtaste> It just flat out wont login?
[11:45] <smoothtaste> Can you type in your username and password?
[11:45] <Nierok> No, it logs in automatically usually
[11:46] <smoothtaste> So it just freezes during the login?
[11:46] <Nierok> Yes
[11:46] <Nierok> I could push "Ok" in the window, but my mouse doesn't move
[11:46] <Nierok> Enter doesn't help
[11:47] <smoothtaste> ctrl alt f1 do anything
[11:47] <Nierok> Don't know
[11:47] <smoothtaste> i dont remember if that's the right one or not
[11:47] <Nierok> I can try, but then i have to leave and boot the pc from my HDD
[11:47] <smoothtaste> been awhile :P
[11:47] <smoothtaste> ok
[11:47] <smoothtaste> hold on
[11:48] <mnaines> Has anyone here played with KBFX Sphynx?
[11:49] <smoothtaste> Do you have GRUB installed?
[11:49] <Nierok> When i have to install it manually, i don't
[11:50] <smoothtaste> So your machine DOESN'T go to GRUB while booting then?
[11:51] <Nierok> Ah yes, it goes there
[11:51] <Nierok> I didn't know what it is, but now i know, sorry
[11:52] <Nierok> I can choose between starting Linux, starting the recovery and two options of memory tests
[11:52] <mnaines> Why is KBFX Sphynx so slow to load?
[11:52] <smoothtaste> What is kbfx sphynx?
[11:53] <smoothtaste> You mean boot into ubuntu (recovery) Nierok?
[11:53] <Nierok> Yes
[11:53] <KubuntuNoob> hi
[11:53] <smoothtaste> Nierok: Try that
[11:53] <mnaines> KBFX is a thing in the Kubuntu repository that allows you to customize the start menu
[11:53] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Get compiz back?
[11:54] <smoothtaste> Ah I see.
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> neh
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> I never did
[11:54] <smoothtaste> Not customizable enough mnaines?
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> I don't know how to make kubuntu use copiz
[11:54] <smoothtaste> I don't use it myself.
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> 'compiz
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[11:54] <Nierok> smoothtaste: I did it yet, after some time it stopped and a few lines above stands "recovery complete", so i restarted it and tried to start Kubuntu again
[11:54] <KubuntuNoob> I'm asking aat #compiz
[11:54] <Nierok> It doesn't help
[11:54] <smoothtaste> hmm
[11:54] <smoothtaste> Nierok: Get the 10.04 live cd
[11:54] <smoothtaste> install that
[11:55] <smoothtaste> More stable driver support
[11:55] <mnaines> smoothtaste, the problem I have is when I open the upgraded start menu, its fine, but when I go to scroll through the list of stuff, it lags horribly
[11:55] <smoothtaste> Low cpu mnaines?
[11:55] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Did you check out the appearance tabs in settings, etc?
[11:55] <Nierok> smoothtaste, i format again and try Kubuntu 10.10, maybe it was my fault
[11:55] <KubuntuNoob> no
[11:55] <mnaines> smoothtaste, Intel Core Duo T2350 with 4GB of Mushkin Enhanced 4-4-4-10 DDR2 667MHz memory
[11:55] <smoothtaste> Nierok: It's always possible.
[11:55] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: Im a noob at kde
[11:56] <KubuntuNoob> I don't have the ati drivers, I think
[11:56] <Nierok> smoothtaste: But thanks for your help
[11:56] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Everything you need is in there.
[11:56] <smoothtaste> Incredibly easy to find
[11:56] <smoothtaste> Window managers, etc.
[11:56] <KubuntuNoob> ok thanks
[11:56] <smoothtaste> What'd you use before kde?
[11:56] <KubuntuNoob> gnome
[11:56] <mnaines> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KBFX_%28KDE%29
[11:57] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: where should it be?
[11:58] <KubuntuNoob> to enable compiz
[11:58] <smoothtaste> KDE is a LOT different than gnome
[11:58] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[11:58] <smoothtaste> Do you have all the compiz packages installed?
[11:58] <KubuntuNoob> idk, I think so
[11:59] <KubuntuNoob> compiz and compizconfig-settings-manager
[11:59] <smoothtaste> sudo apt-get install compiz
[11:59] <KubuntuNoob> yes I did that
[11:59] <smoothtaste> Cool
[11:59] <smoothtaste> Lemme check in mine real quick
[11:59] <smoothtaste> Did you try
[11:59] <smoothtaste> System Settings -> Appearance or Window Behavior?
[12:00] <KubuntuNoob> yes but i dont find any compiz
[12:00] <smoothtaste> one sec
[12:00] <smoothtaste> which version of kde are you running
[12:00] <KubuntuNoob> idk
[12:01] <KubuntuNoob> i installed kubuntu 10.10
[12:02] <smoothtaste> do this
[12:02] <smoothtaste> compiz --replace
[12:02] <KubuntuNoob> compiz --replace & ?
[12:02] <smoothtaste> just try that
[12:02] <smoothtaste> see if it puts up compiz instead of kwin
[12:02] <KubuntuNoob> with the & at the end or not?
[12:02] <smoothtaste> no
[12:02] <KubuntuNoob> no it does not
[12:03] <smoothtaste> hmm
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> it says it uses software rendering
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> and that's not supported
[12:03] <smoothtaste> driver related?
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> yes
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> I need to install ati drivers probably
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> I have an ati 5730
[12:03] <smoothtaste> Theres an option for that
[12:03] <KubuntuNoob> where?
[12:03] <smoothtaste> Should be in your panel
[12:04] <smoothtaste> Looks like a piece of hardware
[12:04] <smoothtaste> Or
[12:04] <KubuntuNoob> the updates stuff?
[12:04] <smoothtaste> Yeah
[12:04] <smoothtaste> Fresh install there should be a notification for Proprietary Drivers
[12:04] <KubuntuNoob> i am not downloading a DRM update that will lock my kubuntu, right?
[12:04] <KubuntuNoob> like it happens with win7
[12:05] <smoothtaste> lol
[12:05] <smoothtaste> not that I'm aware of
[12:05] <KubuntuNoob> l
[12:05] <KubuntuNoob> yes, this is fresh install
[12:05] <KubuntuNoob> but no notification so far :(
[12:05] <smoothtaste> open up your kicker *launcher*
[12:06] <KubuntuNoob> ?
[12:06] <smoothtaste> and type hardware drivers
[12:06] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[12:06] <smoothtaste> start menu
[12:06] <KubuntuNoob> nothing found
[12:06] <smoothtaste> hmmm
[12:07] <smoothtaste> Bad install maybe
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> shit, it happened again
[12:08] <smoothtaste> What are you running on?
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> I closed the terminal
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> and now I don't have window manager
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> wtf
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> how do I fix this?
[12:08] <smoothtaste> What kind of machine are you on?
[12:08] <KubuntuNoob> oh, I fixed already
[12:09] <KubuntuNoob> this is a notebook
[12:09] <smoothtaste> For me
[12:09] <smoothtaste> With my laptop and my netbook
[12:09] <smoothtaste> 10.04 has been a lot better *driver wise*
[12:09] <smoothtaste> Before you HATE kde
[12:09] <smoothtaste> Give 10.04 a go
[12:09] <smoothtaste> lol
[12:09] <KubuntuNoob> idk
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> :@
[12:10] <smoothtaste> It's a lot easier to use IMHO
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> hell no
[12:10] <smoothtaste> :P
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> download 10.04 now?
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> :(
[12:10] <smoothtaste> no
[12:10] <smoothtaste> i just meant one day
[12:10] <smoothtaste> lol
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> why not this one?
[12:10] <KubuntuNoob> oh ok
[12:10] <smoothtaste> I use 10.10 on my desktop
[12:10] <smoothtaste> But like i said, 10.04 works a lot better for me on my portables
[12:11] <smoothtaste> Each user will have a different experience
[12:11] <smoothtaste> ATI's always a bitch
[12:11] <gonssal> hi all
[12:11] <KubuntuNoob> ...
[12:12] <gonssal> is it normal for radeonhd package to not show in maverick?
[12:12] <smoothtaste> Do you have any repo's disabled?
[12:12] <gonssal> nope all enabled, including ppa
[12:12] <smoothtaste> Eek
[12:12] <smoothtaste> lol
[12:12] <gonssal> only fglrx and normal radeon showing
[12:12] <KubuntuNoob> how do I make my GPU work?
[12:12] <KubuntuNoob> with compiz
[12:13] <KubuntuNoob> how do I install the drivers??
[12:13] <KubuntuNoob> help
[12:13] <smoothtaste> what card
[12:14] <gonssal> radeon hd 2400 agp
[12:14] <KubuntuNoob> ati 5730
[12:15] <smoothtaste> lol
[12:15] <smoothtaste> okay
[12:17] <KubuntuNoob> how do I install apps without apt-get ?
[12:17] <KubuntuNoob> I mean with a GUI
[12:17] <smoothtaste> KPackageKit
[12:17] <gonssal> according to this https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+package/xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd
[12:17] <gonssal> there should be a radeonhd package
[12:18] <KubuntuNoob> i can't browse programs while updating??
[12:18] <KubuntuNoob> :(
[12:19] <smoothtaste> your installing updates right now?
[12:20] <KubuntuNoob> yea
[12:20] <KubuntuNoob> :/
[12:21] <smoothtaste> Go to system -> administration -> additional drivers
[12:23] <smoothtaste> i think thats right
[12:23] <smoothtaste> its different from 10.04 to 10.10, and I'm on .04 atm
[12:23] <morticum> hi, I recall knowing a shortcut + mouse combo that allowed one to drag a window titlebar to another window titlebar to group them
[12:23] <morticum> where are those settings, and/or what is the combo to do this?
[12:25] <smoothtaste> the only time i've ever used that is to group browsers
[12:25] <smoothtaste> and now that they're tabbed, there's no key combo needed
[12:25] <smoothtaste> i believe the same works in dolphin
[12:26] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Was additional drivers present in your menu?
[12:26] <KubuntuNoob> smoothtaste: yeah it's installing now
[12:26] <KubuntuNoob> thanks
[12:27] <smoothtaste> KubuntuNoob: Cool, sorry I had the versions backwards earlier lol
[12:27] <KubuntuNoob> ok
[12:28] <KubuntuNoob> do I really have to restart the computer to make the GPU drivers work?
[12:28] <KubuntuNoob> I mean, i thought you didn't need to reboot on linux
[12:28] <KubuntuNoob> or do I only need to restart the window manager really?
[12:28] <KubuntuNoob> or X server?
[12:29] <KubuntuNoob> anyways, rebooting... bye
[12:29] <smoothtaste> Driver change... always reboot
[12:30] <jhohn> restart X sould be enough
[12:31] <jhohn> but for (Ex-)Win Users its easier to say: reboot
[12:31] <jhohn> only for a new kernel you need to reboot
[12:32] <whilo> jhohn: or for a new libc6, maybe?
[12:32] <Agu10> hi
[12:32] <Agu10> I'm back (KubuntuNoob)
[12:32] <Agu10> it works now
[12:32] <jhohn> ok, yes with new libc it might be better to reboot but normaly its not necessary
[12:34] <jhohn> you might send a HUP to running processes
[12:34] <whilo> jhohn: sure, its also not really necessary to restart after a kernel upgrade. in fact you only need to do that if you a) have security concerns or b) a bug which is causing you trouble has been fixed
[12:35] <jhohn> and c) you do not use uptrack
[12:36] <jhohn> but you do not need to install the kernel upgrade if you do not restart (or use uptrack) because the new one will not be used
[12:37] <whilo> jhohn: sure
[12:37] <whilo> jhohn: cool i didn't knew ksplice really made it into production
[12:37] <whilo> jhohn: is that supported in ubuntu/debian already?
[12:38] <jhohn> don't know, don't think so
[12:40] <Agu10> how do I disable my fucking trackpad?
[12:42] <jhohn> http://www.guyrutenberg.com/2010/01/08/disable-touchpad-tapping-in-kubuntu/
[12:43] <Agu10> cool :)
[12:44] <gonssal> any idea on why i don't have radeonhd package?
[12:44] <gonssal> all repos enabled including ppa
[12:44] <Agu10> jhohn: and how would I re-enable it? :O
[12:46] <gonssal> could someone with maverick do a radeonhd search?
[12:48] <jhohn> try "synclient TapButton1=1"
[12:51] <jhohn> can't try it, I have only systems without any GUI here
[12:52] <Agu10> jhohn: how should I bind those 2 commands to keyboard shortcuts?
[12:55] <jhohn> Agu10: from the Kubuntu Documentation: choose K-Menu->System Settings->Regional & Accessibility from the desktop menu system. Select Keyboard Shortcuts button to modify your keyboard shortcuts.
[12:56] <jhohn> sometimes its easier to read docu then to wait for dropdowns ;)
[12:57] <Agu10> wtf
[12:57] <Agu10> oh yeah
[12:57] <Agu10> jhohn: I can't find Regional & Accessibilit
[12:57] <jhohn> I have no GUI to check, sorry
[12:58] <Agu10> I open System Settings, but then?
[12:58] <Agu10> jhohn: you don't use linux for your desktop computer?
[12:58] <jhohn> moment pls., I start a VM
[12:59] <Agu10> ok
[12:59] <jhohn> I am at work and my company do not allow linux on  the desktop
[12:59] <Agu10> they use windows on desktop?
[12:59] <jhohn> sadly, yes
[13:00] <Agu10> why?  they think using linux you could hack them?
[13:01] <jhohn> its a really big company and the IT dept. is glad to handle one type of system
[13:01] <Agu10> oh I see
[13:01] <Agu10> so you can't use linux even if you insist? you're not your own IT dept?
[13:01] <Agu10> helpdesk
[13:02] <jhohn> no, i am in the network engineering dept. and i do have linux systems here but all without GUI, I do not need a GUI
[13:04] <Agu10> jhohn: then how do you use IRC ?
[13:04] <Agu10> a console based irc client?
[13:04] <jhohn> have a look in Input-Devices (in my german system its called "Eingabegeräte" so it might be "Input devices")
[13:04] <jhohn> IRC is older than GUIs
[13:05] <jhohn> yes console based IRC client called weechat
[13:05] <Agu10>  yea I know
[13:05] <Agu10> so they don't allow GUIs so that you can't watch pr0n?
[13:05] <Agu10> instead of working
[13:05] <Agu10> ;)
[13:05] <jhohn> running on my private server to which i connect via ssh
[13:05] <Agu10> but you managed to do IRC  xD
[13:06] <jhohn> I installed the linux systems myself, they are used in our lab and we do not need a GUI
[13:06] <Agu10> don't worry, you can still watch ascii porn
[13:06] <Agu10> :P ok.
[13:08] <jhohn> iscii pron is cool
[13:09] <jhohn> did you find "Input Devices" in Ssystem Ssettings?
[13:09] <jhohn> my S is bouncing
[13:09] <Agu10> no, I found
[13:09] <Agu10> yes
[13:10] <Agu10> input devices is here
[13:10] <jhohn> and in there i have Touchpad
[13:10] <Agu10> but nothing about key shortcuts afaik
[13:10] <Agu10> yes
[13:11] <jhohn> I have no Touchpad on my VM so everything is grey but there you can switch on or of
[13:11] <Agu10> oh I see, but
[13:11] <Agu10> I want a keyboard shortcut :(
[13:15] <jhohn> there is a tab calles "shortcuts and gestures" or so (in German its calles Kurzbefehle und Gestensteuerung)
[13:18] <Agu10> where should I place all my scripts??
[13:18] <jhohn> what scripts?
[13:19] <Agu10> the ones I use for fixing the  OS
[13:20] <jhohn> put them to ~/bin/ or /usr/local/bin/
[13:21] <Agu10> ok
[13:21] <jhohn> first if only you use them, second if everyone on the machine should use them
[13:21] <Agu10> what's the difference?
[13:21] <Agu10> ok
[13:21] <jhohn> ~ is your homedir
[13:22] <Agu10> why is "create new file" greyed out in that folder?
[13:22] <Agu10> I can't create a script there...
[13:22] <jhohn> in which folder
[13:22] <Agu10> ~/usr/local/bin
[13:23] <jhohn> without the ~ in front, /usr/local/bin belongs to root
[13:23] <sresu> I saw an update today for ubuntu-sso-client.. Is it related to Ubuntu client for KDE desktops?
[13:23] <sresu> Ubuntu One*
[13:37] <Agu10> jhohn: yeah I meant /usr/local/bin
[13:37] <jhohn> you need to be root to write in there
[13:38] <Agu10> jhohn: crap.
[13:38] <Agu10> is there a way to get root access without using commands? ;)
[13:39] <jhohn> just use /home/<YourUsername>/bin/
[13:39] <jhohn> its easier
[13:39] <Agu10> :(
[13:40] <jhohn> Maybe there is a way but i always use the console
[13:40] <jhohn> open console
[13:40] <jhohn> type "sudo -i" and your PW
[13:44] <jhohn> then edit your file and do a "chmod 0755 /usr/local/bin/<yourfilename>" so everyone can execute it
[13:44] <jhohn> you see: no problem
[13:48] <Agu10> lol
[13:48] <Agu10> chmod, i hate that
[13:48] <Agu10> I prefer to use the GUI, kkthx
[13:48] <Agu10> or ./myscript
[13:53] <jhohn> why? chmod is easy to use. you have rwx (read, write, execute) for user, group, others (rwxrwxrwx). Now x is 1, w is 2, r is 4. So if you want to set r-x it is 5
[14:15] <FloridaGuy> firefox has no farward and back arrows on it
[14:16] <FloridaGuy> its firefox 3.6.13....that going to be a fix or a reinstall ?
[14:42] <shane2peru> ok, I have did a clean re-install, upgraded all packages, added kubuntu-ppa repo and that is now updating without problems, however I have a blinking monitor that is driving me bonkers how do I fix that?
[14:42] <shane2peru> it blinks about every 45seconds or so, I checked in system settings, and monitors, and tried to set the refresh rate to auto, but that didn't seem to help?
[14:45] <Daskreech> shane2peru: Driver issue?
[14:48] <shane2peru> Daskreech: hmm, perhaps
[14:48] <shane2peru> Daskreech: I do have nvidia card, and dual monitor setup
[14:48] <shane2peru> which was easy to configure, and everything looks good except that blinking
[14:49] <shane2peru> however I setup my dual monitor, as side by side extended desktop and rebooted after the update, and had to set it up again. :(  After the updates I guess I will look for nvidia drivers.
[15:14] <VoraGines> hello everybody
[15:14] <rork> Hi VoraGines
[15:14] <VoraGines> just a question on Kubuntu 10.04 LTS
[15:14] <rork> Go ahead
[15:15] <VoraGines> i have recently installed it in a university office, I am behind a bloody proxy
[15:15] <VoraGines> and sudo apt-get update
[15:15] <VoraGines> does not work
[15:15] <shane2peru> I thought java was sun-java-jre?  what is the java package I need?
[15:16] <VoraGines> whereas configuring konqueror with the proxy allows me to connect to the internet
[15:16] <VoraGines> not sure how to configure the konsole
[15:16] <VoraGines> and wget
[15:16] <VoraGines> to have internet access
[15:17] <VoraGines> any ideas on solving this issue?
[15:19] <rork> VoraGines: you could try `export http_proxy=http://myuname:mypass@myproxy:myport` and then `sudo apt-get update` (I don't use proxy's myself, got it from a forum)
[15:20] <rork> !java | shane2peru
[15:20] <shane2peru> ok, this blinking monitor is going to drive me buggy if I don't get it fixed, any ideas?
[15:20] <VoraGines> rork: i appreciate your help, but that, does not work with kubuntu 10.04
[15:20] <shane2peru> rork: thanks
[15:25] <rork> VoraGines: I have no idea then, just hang on, someone else will know the answer
[15:25] <VoraGines> ok, rork
[15:39] <KF7MTE> VoraGines:  Are you commandline only?  Can you use a gui app for the update?
[15:41] <VoraGines> KF7MTE: why not using sudo apt?
[15:41] <KF7MTE> Just didn't know if you could access a gui app instead.  You know konq is getting out.  Maybe KDE will know about the proxy and using a gui app will allow it get out.
[15:47] <skfin> Hey, I cant get 10.04.1 image to boot from USB
[15:47] <skfin> Complains about gfxboot
[15:48] <skfin> Doesnt give me the text menu where I could check the usb data
[15:48] <skfin> But image that I downloaded has matching md5sum
[15:49] <skfin> Strange.
[15:49] <skfin> 10.10 and 11.04 both work fine from that usb stick
[15:50] <skfin> Gives me the boot: prompt
[15:57] <rtdos> i have a dumb noob question: why is the .04 in the series considered LTS and not the latter .10 ? coming from windows (sorry guys) to me it makes more sense to make the later .10 the LTS version (since it would have the most updates.
[15:59] <tsimpson> rtdos: the LTS version is supported for 3 years, but we still release non-LTS versions every 6 months
[15:59] <tsimpson> LTS is not about the latest software, but stable software
[16:00] <tsimpson> so LTS gets bug fixes and security updates, but usually not new features
[16:03] <rtdos> so help me understand security fixes: do they (3 year support) apply only to the .04 LTS or also to .10 - what i mean is, if i want to continue to receive security (or other) updates I have to go back to .04 LTS ?
[16:04] <tsimpson> the non-LTS releases are updated for 18 months after release, so they get the same updates
[16:04] <tsimpson> but LTS is updated for 3 years (on the desktop) after release
[16:05] <tsimpson> LTS is just supported for longer
[16:05] <rtdos> so after 18 months i have to drop back down to .04 to continue to receive updates? i'm not quite sure i follow?
[16:06] <mfraz74> before the 18 months are up you upgrade to a newer version
[16:06] <mfraz74> or stay on the same version, but not receive any updates
[16:06] <tsimpson> the point of LTS is that you don't have to upgrade so often
[16:07] <tsimpson> especially for server installs, which get updates for 5 years
[16:09] <rtdos> but why .04 and not .10 for LTS? that's where i'm confused.
[16:09] <tsimpson> why not?
[16:09] <rtdos> i don't like upgrading every 18 months (my wallet can't handle it) :)
[16:10] <tsimpson> your wallet?
[16:10] <mfraz74> you can upgrade every 6 months if you want too
[16:10] <rtdos> yea. i just don't like going through the process of upgrading and re-installing stuff.
[16:10] <tsimpson> you don't have to reinstall
[16:11] <tsimpson> just update
[16:11] <tsimpson> I haven't done a fresh install since 2007
[16:11] <rtdos> wow.
[16:16] <BluesKaj> howdy folks
[16:16] <rtdos> tsimpson, sometimes i just don't like some of the changes when going from a major x.04 to the next x.04 - for example i have a ubuntu machine that is still running 8.10 because i like random themed login screens which the took out (i believe) in either 9.04 or 10.04 :)
[16:17] <rtdos> ....though kubuntu does have themed logins :)
[16:17] <BluesKaj> rtdos, you're obviously very visually orinted ...8.10 ?  wow
[16:18] <BluesKaj> err oriented
[16:19] <rtdos> yes. (that's why i switched over to $ubuntu when Vista came out)
[16:20] <rtdos> i guess you could say that vista was my windoze killer. :)
[16:20] <BluesKaj> W7 isn't too bad but it's become very proprietary relative to other windows OSs
[16:22] <rtdos> true, it is a huge improvement over Vista but still lacks some things that made NT/2K/XP unique. (for example, now you have to display all users on system on the login screen, you didn't have to do that in previous version of Windows, esp. XP which you could use either or login screen)
[16:22] <rtdos> i like my visuals, basic. not really into eye candy all that much. :)
[16:28] <BluesKaj> rtdos, I was dual booting this pc , but I got fed up with all the probs I was having with video capture on W7 ,so I dmped W7 in favour of a complete linux
[16:29] <rtdos> i purchased a laptop last month just to put kubuntu 10.10 on it. (it had w7 on it)
[16:30] <rtdos> but i don't plan on changing my ubuntu 8.10 machine anytime soon. :)
[16:31] <shane4ubuntu> ok, clean install, upgraded, upgraded the kubuntu-ppa and I have a blinking monitor and no sound! :(  I need some help because I don't know my way around KDE very well at all.
[16:31] <shane4ubuntu> I take that back I do have sound
[16:32] <rtdos> a loud scream shane4ubuntu? :)
[16:32] <mfraz74> which of the ppas have you enabled?
[16:36] <shane4ubuntu> ok, sorry got a phone call
[16:36] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: I only enabled kubuntu-ppa
[16:36] <shane4ubuntu> I have a nvidia card GT9500 that has always worked fine with ubuntu, and a dual monitor setup
[16:37] <BluesKaj> rtdos, I have a 5yr old amd64 single core pc which I think I may regress to 9.10 ..it ws the OS that supported my Bekin rt2870 driver USB dongle , bcause I need  to move it into my music room an I don't plan on running any more cat5/6
[16:38] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: is there another ppa I should know about?
[16:38] <mfraz74> shane4ubuntu: there's kubuntu-backports, but you'd better get it working with what you have first
[16:39] <mfraz74> shane4ubuntu: have you got a desktop visible?
[16:39] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: right, any ideas on the blinking monitor, that is priority 1
[16:39] <rtdos> i hate cables. :)
[16:39] <BluesKaj> shane4ubuntu, the gt9500 should use th nvidia-current driver succesfully , so there's something else preventing your boot
[16:39] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: yes, both monitors are working fine, and the display is set across both, not cloned
[16:40] <shane4ubuntu> BluesKaj: ohh, no, I boot fine, just have a monitor blinking like every 45 seconds it blinks
[16:40] <BluesKaj> oh, I thought you had no desktop
[16:40] <shane4ubuntu> ok, maybe that is more like every 15seconds it blinks
[16:41] <shane4ubuntu> no, actually everything went very smoothly, the install, upgrade etc.
[16:41] <shane4ubuntu> also when I setup my dual monitor that was easy, however the settings are not saved, and every time I boot I have to reset it
[16:42] <shane4ubuntu> odd, but that can be fixed later, top priority is that one monitor blinks, it will drive a man buggy real quick
[16:42] <BluesKaj> shane4ubuntu, when ppl talk about a blinking monitorin here , mots of us assume no boot
[16:42] <BluesKaj> rr most
[16:42] <shane4ubuntu> right, I could see where one would assume that.
[16:43] <shane4ubuntu> I'm on the verge of installing the proprietary driver just to see if that takes care of it, because I didn't have this prob before.
[16:44] <BluesKaj> shane4ubuntu, are you using the current driver atm /
[16:45] <shane4ubuntu> BluesKaj: I guess, I'm not sure how to find out, what ever was installed is what I'm using,
[16:45] <shane4ubuntu> In gnome it is System -> Administration -> Hardware Drivers
[16:45] <shane4ubuntu> I don't know where to find it in kde
[16:46] <shane4ubuntu> or the package name to use commandline
[16:46] <Miro8> can someone help me.. i installed a second linux and i get this error "zImage doesn't support 32-bit boot" any one knows what the problem is?
[16:46] <mfraz74> shane4ubuntu: system - additional drivers
[16:47] <george_> hello
[16:47] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: I must be blind because I'm not seeing it?
[16:49] <mfraz74> have you got jockey-kde installed?
[16:49] <mfraz74> suppose you can just do alt-f2 jockey-kde
[16:50] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: ok, that is it!  Thanks!
[16:50] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: no the driver was not activated, activating it now, thanks a million!
[16:51] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: there must be a gui of finding that right?
[16:52] <shane4ubuntu> mfraz74: now I find it!  K-Menu -> System -> Additional Drivers.
[16:54] <marion> what program do you guys recomend for importing and editing images
[16:55] <mudassar> hello kubuntu people
[16:55] <marion> hello mudassar
[16:56] <mudassar> can any body tell me which version of skype works fine (chat, voice/video chat) in kubuntu 10.04
[16:58] <BluesKaj> mudassar, I use he skype static version from it's website , an be sure to follow the readme instructions for a successful install
[16:59] <mudassar> can u plz share with the link for its tar
[17:02] <mudassar> in the previous installation of kubuntu 10.04, i had installed a skype with version (something like) 2.0.something, it was working with full features, chat, voice/video chat, screen sharing etc ...... but forgot its exact version
[17:06] <mudassar> anybody there ?
[17:11] <shane4ubuntu> Ok, got the drivers and the blinking is gone!!!  Hurrray!  Thanks
[17:11] <shane4ubuntu> however I only have one monitor now. :(
[17:11] <shane4ubuntu> the other isn't even detected.
[17:12] <BluesKaj> mudassar do you mean you can't find the skype site ?
[17:12] <shane4ubuntu> ahh, but I have my nvidia settings stuff, that will work to set me up with two
[17:13] <mudassar> no no I mean where can I find the static version
[17:13] <BluesKaj> mudassar, it'a thre
[17:13] <BluesKaj> there
[17:13] <mudassar> can u please paste the link
[17:16] <BluesKaj> mudassar, all I did was google skype static, but anyway here it is , http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/get-skype/on-your-computer/linux/post-download/
[17:16] <BluesKaj> mudassar, if you can't find it on the internet then I'm not sure that you're capable of installing it
[17:17] <mudassar> actually i was looking for word "static" ...... :)
[17:18] <Agu10> hey
[17:18] <mudassar> I can search and configure anything ... but the point is I was not aware of static version of skype last time I installed from some other post
[17:18] <Agu10> is there a way to change the colors? from blue to red, for example?
[17:18] <mudassar> but let me give it a try then we will see whether it works or not
[17:18] <Agu10> or will all icons remain the same color? :S
[17:19] <BluesKaj> mudassar, after you decompress the tar file , make sure to read the readme instrctions
[17:21] <mudassar> it is *.deb file
[17:22] <mudassar> and secondly, I had already tried this before......... the voice chat does not work for this
[17:23] <Agu10> halp me!
[17:23] <BluesKaj> mudassar, the file I have is: skype_static-2.1.0.81.tar.bz2
[17:24] <mudassar> i m trying to download "Ubuntu 8.10+ 32-bit" and it downloads deb file
[17:24] <mudassar> can u paste the link to the file
[17:25] <BluesKaj> Agu10, loo in sytem settings / application appearance/ colours
[17:27] <BluesKaj> mudassar, http://download.skype.com/linux/skype_static-2.1.0.81.tar.bz2
[17:28] <Agu10> yes, this is crap
[17:28]  * BluesKaj shakes his head ...that's enuff hand holding or one day
[17:28] <Agu10> this means it will always remain blue :(
[17:29] <BluesKaj> Agu10, you cn download other schemes
[17:30] <BluesKaj> mudassar, a hint , google-linux is your friend !
[17:30] <Agu10> BluesKaj: sure... schemes... but icons are STILL BLUE
[17:30] <Agu10> and everything else is STILL BLUE
[17:31] <Agu10> this means it will ALWAYS remain BLUE
[17:31] <BluesKaj> heh, I like blue...mybe redhat is more your taste :)
[17:32] <Agu10> hmm
[17:32] <Agu10> well, my window decoration program crashed
[17:33] <Agu10> I've been using this distro for 2 or 3 hours now
[17:33] <Agu10> wtf
[17:33] <Agu10> and it's crashed like 4 times already
[17:33] <Agu10> how do I fix it?
[17:34] <BluesKaj> Agu10, what aps are crashing ?
[17:35] <BluesKaj> apps
[17:35] <Agu10> i'll tell you in a sec
[17:35] <Agu10> KDE window decorator
[17:35] <Agu10> kde4-window-decorator
[17:36] <Agu10> Segmentation fault
[17:36] <Agu10> WTF
[17:37] <BluesKaj> Agu10, open the kmenu/ystem/additional divers , choose te recommended driver and instal it
[17:38] <BluesKaj> kmenu/system
[17:38] <Agu10> BluesKaj: I already installed ati drivers
[17:38] <BluesKaj> the recommended drivers ?
[17:39] <Agu10> yes
[17:39] <Agu10> how do I fix this? it keeps crashing :(
[17:40] <mudassar> I have installed the skype but in call test, the pitch of my voice changes when I listen to it
[17:41] <Agu10> mudassar: lol, that's your REAL voice ;)
[17:42] <mudassar> i need the 2.0 version of skype ....... (not 2.0.0.72, it works fine for voice/video chat) but crashes on text chat
[17:43] <mudassar> I do not remember which one I installed last time
[17:44] <Agu10> mudassar: use windows ;)
[17:45] <Agu10> mudassar: or run skype on a windows VM
[17:45] <Agu10> virtualbox
[17:45] <mudassar> yesterday some guy from this channel told me to install lamp using tasksel, I was not aware of it well. (Not good in linux, I can just do things using posts, don't have my own good knowledge about linux), that tasksel installed lampp but remove many other packages, so I had to install kubuntu 10.04 again ... that guy should have told me about other side effects
[17:46] <mudassar> my kubuntu 10.04 was working like a charm ...... everything was configured well and I had spent time on it ....... so spending that time again now :(
[17:46] <Pici> There should be no side-effects of installing the lamp-server task.
[17:47] <mudassar> Pici: that tasksel way of installing this lampp, installed lampp well but it removed other packages that removed my kde, networking, eclipse, android, everything, I hardly could save my precious data
[17:48] <Pici> mudassar: I've never seen that happen on any computer that I've installed the lamp task on, which is quite a few.
[17:48] <Agu10> mudassar: switch to windows, it will be easier ;)
[17:48] <Pici> Agu10: Thats not helpful for this channel.
[17:49] <mudassar> Agu10: Dont say me this. I don't like windows
[17:49] <mudassar> kubuntu 10.04 is best
[17:50] <Agu10> mudassar: ok... then let the hacking begin...
[17:50] <mudassar> I told you before that I had spent alot of time to configure things well for me ... but due to yesterdays accident everything went off ...... :(
[17:50] <Agu10> oh I see
[17:51] <mudassar> I always installed things using either deb or tars .... or apt-get (or package manager)....... so I was not expecting this :(
[17:51] <Agu10> how do I fix my f*king window decoration manager?
[17:51] <Pici> Agu10: Please mind your language here
[17:51] <Agu10> ? that's why I used *
[17:51] <Pici> mudassar: It really should have warned you that you that it was going to remove packages before it went ahead and did it.
[17:51] <Pici> Agu10: Obsfucated swearing is still swearing.
[17:52] <Agu10> oh :( then implicit swearing is NOT swearing?
[17:52] <mudassar> Pici: You are right, it should have. I am not sure what happened at that time. My son was around, he may have pressed some button.........  that's why I say it was an accident
[17:52] <Agu10> ok, then: how do I fix my fantastic window decoration manager?
[17:53] <Pici> mudassar: Right.  I believe you, its just very odd.
[17:53] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: huh?
[17:53] <mudassar> actually, I do alot of things in kubuntu ........ I am doing PhD, have install latex, I do work in c++, java, android, eclipse, i had printers settings (that also took time) and other office specific installations that took alot of my time, but i was successful to make my kubuntu ideal.......... but :(
[17:54] <Daskreech> How is propietary /relative/ to other Windows releases?
[17:54] <mudassar> this is a great OS ....
[17:54] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, networking for one , homegroup
[17:55] <mudassar> Pici: please help me fixing my skype
[17:55] <Agu10> Daskreech: what are you talking about?
[17:55] <Agu10> mudassar: tried reinstalling?
[17:55] <mudassar> from now on, i am saving my fixes in some file for later use ....... that i did not do last time
[17:55] <mudassar> yes
[17:56] <mudassar> but still, voice chat is not working fine
[17:56] <mudassar> voice changes
[17:56] <Agu10> hmm
[17:56] <Agu10> maybe you installed some sound/music program?
[17:57] <mudassar> I installed vlc player and other codecs ....... but i did it last time as well ...... it was working
[17:57] <mudassar> I saw some post where some skype 2.0 version was mentioned (that I don't remember now) and it worked like a charm
[17:58] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: The others were propietary before
[17:58] <Daskreech> this is just different
[17:59] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, i was able to connect to wife's vista pc with XP previousl now W7 doesn't allow that , it only allows other homegroup pcs
[18:00] <BluesKaj> anyway I'm not bothering with W7 anymore , kubuntu does the networking quite nicely , Daskreech
[18:00] <Bauldrick> hello, probably an easy question, but, how can I stop kwallet thing asking for authorization to start my wifi at logon? I answered always allow but it always asks for passwd..
[18:00] <Agu10> oh crap, I have no sound :(
[18:00] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: A little odd for Windows but not unheard of. They really need people to upgrade
[18:01] <Agu10> Bauldrick: yes that happens to me too!
[18:01] <Agu10> Bauldrick: we got to do something about it!
[18:02] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, another prob I had was with video capture from a pvr , mencoder does it where w7 can't
[18:06] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, it's too bad that W7 doesn't have a v4l2 equivalent
[18:08] <Agu10> I still don't have a window decorator
[18:09] <Agu10> which means I can't move windows
[18:09] <Agu10> maximize them
[18:09] <Agu10> close them, etc
[18:09] <Agu10> how do I make the OS put window borders around windows???
[18:10] <BluesKaj> Agu10, system settings/workspace appearance
[18:12] <Agu10> BluesKaj: now?
[18:13] <BluesKaj> Agu10, look around try some choices ..not in a hand holding mood today
[18:13] <Agu10> yes I did, but nothing happens...
[18:13] <Agu10> still no window borders...
[18:13] <Agu10> at all
[18:14] <mudassar> still trapped with skype :(
[18:14] <mudassar> plz help
[18:14] <Agu10> most people here come desperately trying to get pretty basic stuff working, right?
[18:15] <Agu10> that on windows would be to easy to even ask in irc... ?
[18:16] <BluesKaj> Agu10, why are you so unwlling to try anything new in decorations?
[18:16] <Agu10> BluesKaj: anything new? I did try. but nothing shows up at all...
[18:17] <Agu10> I still have no window borders...
[18:17] <Agu10> it's obviously a bug... if that's your question
[18:17] <BluesKaj> have you chosen a scheme in system settings colors yet ?
[18:18] <Agu10> yes, the default blue one
[18:18] <Agu10> the others just won't match the window and icon colors
[18:18] <Agu10> so there's no point in trying them
[18:19] <BluesKaj> gotta go ...stuff to do ,postbox and errands , BBL
[18:19] <shane4ubuntu> anyone use yakuake?
[18:19] <Agu10> kkbye
[18:20] <Agu10> so how should I fix this issues?
[18:20] <Agu10> ok... I surrender. I will reboot
[18:21] <Bauldrick> Agu10: last time I ran kubuntu and screwed it up you could just remove ~/.kde and start again - thats probably very bad practice now...
[18:22] <shane4ubuntu> anyone know how to configure yakuake
[18:25] <DarthFrog> shane4ubuntu:  Yes.  On the lower right corner are three dinky icons.  One is for config.
[18:26] <DarthFrog> It's the middle one, "Open Menu".
[18:26] <Agu10> kde4-window-decorator keeps crashing!!! is it because of compiz???
[18:30] <shane4ubuntu> DarthFrog: thanks!  I knew it was there somewhere, I couldn't find that config one
[18:31] <Agu10> help!
[18:35] <Agu10> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1475164
[18:36] <Agu10> wtf is that? that doesn't exist in my system settings
[18:36] <Agu10> it says: Select K | System Settings | Appearance | Windows | Window Decoration (tab)
[18:36] <Agu10> but System Settings is as far as I can go
[18:36] <Agu10> any clues?
[18:36] <Agu10> what is "Appearance"? is that from another version?
[18:36] <Agu10> I don't have such a button as "Appearance". ideas?
[18:38] <Daskreech> Agu10: another version
[18:38] <Agu10> ok
[18:38] <Daskreech> Agu10: alt=F2 -> windows
[18:38] <Agu10> well I found the Plastik decorator
[18:38] <Agu10> but still, no window borders
[18:38] <Agu10> what can I do?
[18:38] <Agu10> every time I install ubuntu / kubuntu, I find it is FULL OF BUGS :S
[18:39] <Agu10> I have to fix those bugs myself every time... it sucks
[18:39] <Daskreech> Agu10: it seems to be attracted to some people.
[18:39] <Agu10> ?
[18:39] <Agu10> you mean debugger people?
[18:39] <Daskreech> Agu10: some people just seem to have issues with it. I know people who have been running it for years with no real problems
[18:40] <Agu10> people or machines you mean?
[18:40] <Agu10> I've tried AT LEAST 4 computers with ubuntu / kubuntu, and they all failed at some point
[18:40] <Agu10> usually I have more than 4 important bugs ;)
[18:40] <Daskreech> people
[18:40] <Daskreech> of course in a lot of areas it's hard to distinguish between the two
[18:41] <Daskreech> what are you mising? Do you have a titlebar for the windows ?
[18:42] <Agu10> nope. no tilebar, no window borders
[18:42] <Daskreech> Agu10: did you try kwin --replace ?
[18:42] <Agu10> Daskreech: yes
[18:43] <Daskreech> and ?
[18:43] <Agu10> it gives the window borders back, but Disables compiz...
[18:43] <Daskreech> lol ah right
[18:43] <Daskreech> what do you want in compiz?
[18:43] <Agu10> what do you mean?
[18:43] <Daskreech> what do you want compiz for?
[18:44] <Agu10> for the cube with virtual desktops, the window switching stuff
[18:44] <Agu10> etc
[18:44] <Agu10> the question is why wouldn't I want compiz
[18:46] <yofel> didn't kwin have a cube too?
[18:47] <yofel> I've seen a few bug reports about compiz-kde crashes though :/
[18:47] <Agu10> so?
[18:47] <Agu10> there's nothing I can do?
[18:47] <Agu10> ... this sucks
[18:47] <Agu10> it's not changed since 2 years ago ... :S
[18:47] <yofel> if it *crashes* probably not :/
[18:48] <Agu10> using linux means spending all your time at fixing bugs instead of getting work done
[18:49] <Agu10> ubuntu is a lie.
[18:49] <yofel> kubuntu works perfectly fine here with kwin
[18:49] <Agu10> lol
[18:49] <Agu10> why is it I don't beleive you at all?
[18:49] <Daskreech> Agu10: Why do you want compiz? :)
[18:50] <Agu10> also, I can't get the wifi to connect without me writing my password every time I turn the computer ON
[18:50] <Daskreech> start kwin and then press alt+f3
[18:50] <Agu10> Daskreech: why wouldn't I want compiz?
[18:50] <Daskreech> go to configure window behaviour and under desktop effects turn on the cube
[18:50] <Daskreech>  there you go. Cube :)
[18:51] <Daskreech> you can setup whichever window switching stuff you want as well
[18:51] <Agu10> Daskreech: there's no such thing under desktop effects...
[18:51] <Agu10> also, kde cube != compiz cube
[18:51] <Agu10> anyways, no cube option either
[18:52] <Agu10> anyways, I don't want that. I want compiz.
[18:52] <Agu10> I wanted to maky my own compiz plugins too
[18:52] <Agu10> how can I do that if I can't even run compiz without breaking all my window borders??
[18:53] <Agu10> this is not a working solution. this is a joke :P I don't wonder why only linux users are hackers and coders that only use the command line xD
[18:54] <yofel> well, feel free to file a bug about the crash (actually, please do so) - sadly compiz-kde is in universe so I'm not sure how much it's looked after
[18:54] <Agu10> I say it fails as a desktop OS.
[18:55] <Agu10> yofel: I tried, but can't. it won't let me do that. It says it doesn't have enough information. didn't even let me write any information oO
[18:55] <DarthFrog> Agu10:  You certainly are entitled to your opinion.  The experiences of others, and their opinions, are not the same as yours.  Kubuntu is an excellent desktop system, IMHO.
[18:55] <yofel> Agu10: it means you don't have enough debugging symbols installed to get a complete stacktrace, incomplete ones aren't really useful
[18:55] <Agu10> well, I've already tried 4 or more times, all separated by a period of time
[18:56] <Agu10> all of them have proved ubuntu's failure
[18:56] <Agu10> yofel: I could just report after installing compiz it will crash
[18:56] <Agu10> but it won't let me
[18:57] <Agu10> DarthFrog: maybe *some* people have the luck to have ONLY 2 or 3 very important bugs
[18:57] <Agu10> but I always find lots of them
[18:57] <DarthFrog> Agu10: Then you are a valued user, if you report those bugs. :-)  You can be proud of that.
[18:58] <Daskreech> Agu10: install compiz  window decorations?
[18:58] <Agu10> I thought windows had too many bugs and was unstable, but ubuntu is 10 times worse at least
[18:58] <Agu10> Daskreech: ?
[18:58] <BluesKaj> Agu10, one question, is desktop effects enabled in system settings ?
[18:58] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: assuming that Agu10  is male he is having issues with window decorations
[18:59] <Agu10> BluesKaj: yes it is
[18:59] <Agu10> Daskreech: ?
[18:59] <Daskreech> I'm presuming that he has the window manager for Compiz installed but no window decorations
[18:59] <Daskreech> Agu10: did you install ccsm?
[18:59] <Daskreech> and emerald?
[19:00] <Agu10> Daskreech: CCSM yes, emerald no
[19:00] <Agu10> do I need emerald at all?
[19:00] <Daskreech> Agu10: It's the compiz window decorations. You have been complaining about them so maybe
[19:01] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, I don't bother with compiz , emerald and ccsm, the default builtin compiz effects works for me
[19:01] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: Why would the compiz effects make a differnce to you if you don't bother with compiz?
[19:01] <Agu10> so how do I make it work?
[19:02] <BluesKaj> gawd i thought he was complaining about the default compiz effects , no wonder he has probs
[19:02] <Agu10> oh shit, I closed the terminal and now I can't open the menu
[19:02] <Agu10> or change virtual desktop
[19:02] <DarthFrog> !language | Agu10
[19:02] <Agu10> this really sucks
[19:02] <Agu10> uh
[19:03] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, desktop effects is the builtin or emmbedded compiz afaik
[19:03] <Agu10> so what am I supposed to do now?
[19:04] <BluesKaj> Daskreech, what I mean is the downloadable installable optional version is what I don't bother wth.
[19:04] <DarthFrog> Agu10: ALT-F2, type "systemsettings" will bring up the system config window.
[19:04] <Daskreech> BluesKaj: ok
[19:05] <Daskreech> Sorry kicked my reset button on the computer
[19:05] <Agu10> DarthFrog: alt+F2 doesn't do ANYTHING
[19:05] <DarthFrog> Agu10: It doesn't bring up a mini-CLI???  Odd.
[19:05] <Agu10> as if alt+f2 should open a terminal or something?
[19:05] <Agu10> alt+f2 = nothing
[19:05] <BluesKaj> Agu10, try the desktop effects default vesion without the optional compiz and emerald etc
[19:06] <Daskreech> Agu10: You have compiz running?
[19:06] <Agu10> how? I can't open anything
[19:06] <Agu10> I'm stuck without window borders, no menu, nothing
[19:06] <DarthFrog> Agu10: Right-click on the desktop, select "Leave".  Logout, then log back in again.
[19:06] <Agu10> :(
[19:06] <Agu10> ok I'll do that
[19:06] <DarthFrog> If that doesn't work, press ALT-SysReq-K.
[19:07] <BluesKaj> remove compiz , especially sioce it isn't working
[19:07] <Agu10> LOL
[19:07] <BluesKaj> since
[19:07] <Agu10> so if stuff doesn't work I just remove it?
[19:07] <Agu10> DarthFrog: wtf is sysReq ?
[19:08] <BluesKaj> it may be interfereing with the default , dunno for sure
[19:08] <DarthFrog> Agu10: It's the key beside the Scroll Lock key.
[19:09] <Daskreech> Agu10: Actually yes that is an option. You can purge a file and reinstall to get rid of bad configurations
[19:09] <Daskreech> doesn't take very long either :)
[19:10] <Agu10_> so
[19:10] <Agu10_> I had to reboot
[19:10] <Agu10_> now what?
[19:10] <Agu10_> my windows have borders now, but idk why
[19:14] <JuJuBee> I have 2 video cards (one onboard and one expansion slot).  They both show up and I can clone my desktop.  I want to have the second monitor be "Right Of" my main desktop.  When I try to set it and apply, it logs out and I have to log back in and it is back to clone.
[19:15] <Agu10> JuJuBee: use windows
[19:15] <Agu10> linux is just for command line
[19:15] <JuJuBee> Eeewwwww
[19:16] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee: Ignore Agu10.  He's having a bad hair day. :-)
[19:16] <Agu10> lol. not really. bad hair 4 years in that case...
[19:16] <JuJuBee> I gathered that... the heretic
[19:17] <JuJuBee> This works on my laptop, but I can't get it to work on this desktop for some reason...
[19:17] <Agu10> ok, so isn't the wifi supposed to connect without me doing anything when I turn the computer on ?
[19:18] <Agu10> why do I have to open the wifi network list and type my password???
[19:18] <Agu10> if I already typed my password before...
[19:18] <Agu10> is this some 'security measure' 'feature' or what?
[19:18] <JuJuBee> Agu10: I dont have to ask my wifi to connect or enter a password  It just does
[19:18] <DarthFrog> Agu10: Are you using Kwallet?
[19:18] <Agu10> yes
[19:18] <JuJuBee> But I use wicd to manage my connections
[19:19] <maxamuz> Hey
[19:19] <DarthFrog> Agu10: Then it sounds to me like you've not got Kwallet and NetworkManager talking to each other.
[19:19] <Agu10> DarthFrog: am I supposed to hack them?
[19:20] <JuJuBee> Any thoughts on my dual monitor issue?
[19:20] <DarthFrog> Agu10: No.
[19:20] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee: Sorry, I've never had two monitors or two vid cards on one system.
[19:21] <mforder> Can anyone help me?  I installed Netbeans fine in Kubuntu but when creating a new project in the Frameworks options I can't check off anything and instead I see false GWT.....
[19:21] <DarthFrog> Agu10:  Do you have it set to connect automatically?
[19:21] <JuJuBee> How do I find out what chipset the video cards use?
[19:21] <Agu10> DarthFrog: yes
[19:21] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee: What does "lspic -v | less" tell you?
[19:22] <Agu10> DarthFrog: I didn't change the configuration. it should be the default one.
[19:22] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee: Oops, that should be "lspci" not "lspic".  sorry.
[19:22] <JuJuBee> I got that...
[19:22] <Agu10> I ONLY typed my wifi password
[19:22] <mforder> so anotherwords the check boxes are gone and true or false is there instead.  Yet double clicking this doesn't do anything
[19:23] <DarthFrog> Agu10: Then delete that connection and make a new one in NetworkManager?
[19:23] <Agu10> DarthFrog: will that cut my internet connection?
[19:24] <DarthFrog> Agu10: I don't know.  Perhaps.  Does it matter?
[19:24] <Agu10> I'll try it
[19:25] <JuJuBee> DarthFrog: Intel 82Q35 it seems, but I only see reference to that one, no other.  I doubt the add on card is the same as the onboard...?
[19:25] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee: You should see two entries, one for each card.
[19:26] <JuJuBee> Only mention of display is http://pastie.org/1429111
[19:27] <mforder> I am using kwallet
[19:27] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee:  Paste the output of "lspci", without the -v.
[19:27] <mforder> oops sorry thats not for me lol
[19:28] <JuJuBee> DarthFrog: ok, same paste
[19:29] <DarthFrog> JuJuBee:  Did you disable one of the video cards in BIOS?
[19:29] <JuJuBee> no
[19:29] <JuJuBee> At the moment, both are displaying same desktop (clone)
[19:30] <Agu10_> of course. you need to change lots of text files to make it work how you want it
[19:30] <DarthFrog> Well, I'd try disabling the on-board card in BIOS, then see what the system sees with lspci.
[19:30] <Agu10_> and they WILL crash your GPU driver
[19:30] <Agu10_> ;)
[19:30] <JuJuBee> ok, I will try that.
[19:30] <JuJuBee> thanks
[19:31] <DarthFrog> Agu10_: You don't have to edit text files normally.  However, some of us actually prefer doing things that way, believe it or not. Really.
[19:32] <domux_> hi there !!
[19:32] <Agu10_> DarthFrog: and why is that?
[19:33] <Agu10_> why would you prefer to edit the text file than using a GUI ?
[19:36] <ralsina> Agu10_: I do that sometimes because I have not found a way to grep the UI
[19:37] <Agu10_> ralsina: to grep?
[19:37] <Agu10_> whats that?
[19:37] <ralsina> Agu10_: meaning, I know I have to change something that involves the word "AxeCop" (say, a host name). I can just use grep (a command) to know what file has that word.
[19:37] <ralsina> Then I edit it, and that's that.
[19:38] <ralsina> On the GUI, I have to know beforehand where that needs to be changed.
[19:38] <ralsina> So, files are good if you don't want to memorize everything.
[19:38] <skafti> how do i setup windows in wine ?
[19:38] <maco> you don't
[19:38] <Agu10_> ralsina: oh yeah but that's if you know you need to change AxeCop
[19:38] <maco> wine reimplements the win32 api so windows programs can run
[19:38] <Agu10_> skafti: wtf?
[19:39] <skafti> need to use autocad
[19:39] <maco> it is not a virtual machine, so you can't install windows in it
[19:39] <skafti> cant do that with kubuntu
[19:39] <Agu10_> skafti: try to install it. just double click the installer
[19:39] <ralsina> Agu10_: that's the thing. For example, if I know the computer is now called AxeCop and I want to change it to DarkPig ... well, that's just easier with files, really.
[19:39] <Agu10_> skafti: it will open it in wine
[19:39] <skafti> ah ok thanks
[19:39] <maco> skafti:  im not sure autocad works with wine. did you check the winehq site and see?
[19:39] <ralsina> Agu10_: different ways for different tasks.
[19:39] <skafti> nope
[19:39] <Agu10_> ralsina: you would find thousands of files with that text
[19:39] <maco> skafti: if autocad doesnt work in wine, install virtualbox and setup a windows virtual machine
[19:39] <ralsina> Agu10_: nope.
[19:40] <ralsina> Agu10_: Let me show you!
[19:40] <Agu10_> ?
[19:40] <Agu10_> ok
[19:41] <JuJuBee> DarthFrog: turned off desktop effects and works like a charm
[19:41] <Agu10_> lol
[19:42] <ralsina> Agu10_: this is a bad example, because it's on a virtual box called natty, which is the name of the release, so you will usually get much less files than this ;-)
[19:43] <Agu10_> ralsina: lol
[19:43] <Agu10_> ralsina: that's what I mean xD
[19:43] <ralsina> http://pastebin.com/957LsYBA
[19:43] <Agu10_> it's not the ultimate solution
[19:43] <ralsina> In real life, you get exactly ONE file, which is the one you need to edit
[19:43] <Agu10_> what format are most config files?
[19:43] <Agu10_> why not XML ?
[19:43] <Agu10_> instead of that weird thing they are
[19:43] <ralsina> Agu10_: why don't you take a look? See what's in /etc/hostname
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: because they are meant to be human-editable
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: and XML is not such a thing
[19:44] <Agu10_> not?
[19:44] <Agu10_> I thought XML was human editable
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: not
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: you must know weird humans
[19:44] <Agu10_> then why does XML exist at all?
[19:44] <Agu10_> why not use binary then?
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: it's machine-editable
[19:44] <Agu10_> yes, binary
[19:44] <ralsina> Agu10_: and it's generic
[19:45] <Agu10_> XML is for humans
[19:45] <Agu10_> XML is easy. it's for humans too
[19:45] <ralsina> Agu10_: Oh, really? Start openoffice. Create a document with ONE word in it. Then unzip the odt file and check the large XML file
[19:45] <ralsina> Agu10_: let me know if you can edit it ;-)
[19:45] <Agu10_> ralsina: that's probably a HUGE XML file
[19:45] <ralsina> Agu10_: it has 2 lines!
[19:46] <Agu10_> ralsina: no enters ;)
[19:46] <ralsina> Agu10_: and represents a document with one word in it!
[19:46] <Agu10_> or just 1
[19:46] <Agu10_> ralsina: so what? it has lots of other info in it
[19:47] <Agu10_> though if it's default settings, it should not contain that much info...
[19:47] <ralsina> Agu10_: so, basically, it's human-editable, except when it is not human-editable ;-)
[19:47] <Agu10_> but yeah, it's human editable
[19:47] <Agu10_> XML is human editable
[19:47] <ralsina> Agu10_: please try it.
[19:47] <Agu10_> ok, lemme try
[19:47] <ralsina> Agu10_: if a human can't edit it, it's not ;-)
[19:48] <Agu10_> what's the text editor?
[19:48] <Agu10_> with which program should I open it?
[19:49] <ralsina> If you are in kubuntu, you can use kwrite
[19:49] <ralsina> remember to unzip the .odt first
[19:49] <Agu10_> kwrite not found
[19:49] <Agu10_> oh ok
[19:49] <ralsina> Install it?
[19:50] <Agu10_> oh no! I decompressed 'here'
[19:51] <Agu10_> wow, that XML file is total crap
[19:52] <Agu10_> that's an XML fail
[19:53] <ralsina> Agu10_: see? If the format lets you do that, sysadmins hate it. That's why config files use simple formats that can't get out of hand.
[19:54] <ralsina> Agu10_: for example, here's the content of /etc/hostname  (the example Imentioned):  one line, it has to be your host name.
[19:54] <DarthFrog> XML has its uses.  Plain text files have their uses.  Used properly, both work very well.
[19:54] <ralsina> DarthFrog: indeed.
[19:54] <ralsina> System config files is not one of the places for XML, though.
[19:54] <DarthFrog> Used wrongly, you get a bad attitude.
[19:55] <friese> hi, nobody in #compiz answers me, so i'll post it here :)
[19:56] <DarthFrog> ralsina: I like the way KDE does a registry.  The canonical version is plain text, but the working version is binary.  If the working version becomes corrupted, its tossed and rebuilt from the text file.
[19:56] <gibran> hi guys
[19:56] <ralsina> DarthFrog: yes, that works well.
[19:56] <friese> im running kubuntu 10.10 with colibri and compiz. the compiz-animations shouldnt animate my colibri notifications, but ccsm cant catch the window-class of colibri, anyone knows it?
[19:57] <gibran> need some help with something. i recently installed Kubuntu for my friend and saved her from the msvirus.How can i get the icons bar that pops up when you click it? like on a apl desktop?
[19:58] <DarthFrog> gibran: You can set the panel to autohide.
[19:58] <shane4ubuntu> seems that strigi keeps crashing and stops indexing
[19:58] <shane4ubuntu> any ideas on that?
[19:59] <friese> you mean the dashboard? on my gnome desktop i had docky, idk if it works with kde or if there is something better
[19:59] <rtdos> is there a way to get kate to open up last opened document when launching kate?
[19:59] <gibran> and i have trouble with her rekonq, there is no sidescroll on the window.like i cant scroll down
[20:00] <DarthFrog> shane4ubuntu: Strigi, nepomuk and virtuoso are all part of the semantic desktop, which seems to be lacking maturity at this stage.  You can turn off strigi and nepomuk without problems.
[20:01] <friese> so, anyone knows something for my colibri-problem?
[20:01] <DarthFrog> Virtuoso seems to just be a resource hog AFAICT.
[20:02] <DarthFrog> friese: If anyone could provide help, they would have already jumped in.  Sorry.
[20:02] <shane4ubuntu> DarthFrog: well, I kind of wanted to use it. :)
[20:03] <DarthFrog> shane4ubuntu: Then restart it after it crashes. :-)
[20:03] <shane4ubuntu> DarthFrog: I have a full time job just restarting it. :)  lol
[20:04] <DarthFrog> shane4ubuntu: Sounds like you are motivated to file bug reports and help improve it. :-)
[20:04] <shane4ubuntu> twill do, will do.
[20:11] <gibran> anyone know how to setup the scroll sidebar on rekonq? i cant find a scroll sidebar
[20:13] <domux_> i don't have rekonq anymore but check this out in rekonq setting
[20:42] <Daskreech> Agu10_: GUIs are limited
[20:43] <Daskreech> Agu10_: Unix existed for 45 years before XML existed might be one reason
[20:44] <rtdos> what is the difference between rekonq and konquerer?
[20:44] <ralsina> rtdos: they are not the same program?
[20:44] <smoothtaste> Visual layout's a lot different.
[20:44] <DarthFrog> rtdos: rekonq uses WebKit and Konqueror uses KHTML.
[20:44] <Daskreech> ralsina: Kubuntu ships kate :)
[20:45] <smoothtaste> 10.04 has konquerer
[20:45] <domux_> rekonq is a webkit
[20:45] <smoothtaste> 10.10 has rekonq
[20:45] <ralsina> Daskreech: I though kwrite was just kate part with a simpler UI ;-)
[20:45] <smoothtaste> Rekonq is built with Webkit, like mentioned above. Also built with webkit: Android's stock browser. :)
[20:46] <Daskreech> friese: You are far more likely to get help in #Ubuntu
[20:46] <Daskreech> ralsina: To be technical kate is just kwrite with a more complex gui since I think it came after kwrite
[20:47] <Daskreech> rtdos: Rekonq is a web browser
[20:47] <Daskreech> konqueror is a filetype viewer
[20:47] <domux_> and also a web browser !
[20:47] <DarthFrog> Daskreech: Wrongo, reindeer lover.
[20:47] <Daskreech> domux_: cause html happens to be a filetype :)
[20:47] <smoothtaste> :)
[20:48] <domux_> ;)
[20:48] <Daskreech> As are inodes and ark files and audio files etc
[20:48] <DarthFrog> Everything is a file, except network interfaces.
[20:48] <Daskreech> You can view nearly any filetype in Konqueror pretty much limited to html files in rekonq
[20:48] <Daskreech> DarthFrog: And people and groups
[20:48] <Daskreech> and konqueror can see them all
[20:49] <DarthFrog> First, you had the Internet Explorer, then the Navigator.  Lastly, the Konqueror. :-)
[20:49] <DarthFrog> Konqueror is first and foremost a browser.  On steroids.
[20:50] <rtdos> ah, ok, thanks guys.
[20:51] <rtdos> solifugus, darth frog, what is the difference? difference engines?
[20:51] <DarthFrog> rtdos: Yes.  Webkit vs. KHTML
[20:51] <rtdos> ah, okie dokie. thanks. :)
[20:52] <DarthFrog> rtdos: Webkit, as I understand it, is based upon KHTML.  I believe it comes from Apple.
[20:52] <DarthFrog> Tho' I could be wrong there.
[20:52] <rtdos> used in safari, darthfrog?
[20:53] <DarthFrog> rtdos: Yes.
[20:53] <DarthFrog> I think.  :-)
[20:53]  * DarthFrog doesn't run Mac OS.  But would like to.
[20:53]  * rtdos is glad i don't have even access to internet explorer anymore. :)
[20:53] <DarthFrog> rtdos: You do, actually,  It can run under wine.
[20:54] <rtdos> darthfrog: won't even try that one. :)
[20:54] <rtdos> its off my machine for good. :-D
[20:54]  * smoothtaste hates Safari.
[20:55] <rtdos> btw, i have a question about wine, since you brought it up darthfrog, where does it install programs if i open a setup file with wine?
[20:56] <DarthFrog> rtdos: Under ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files
[20:56] <domux_> i think it install it under ./wine
[20:56] <DarthFrog> domux_: Not ./, ~   They are different.
[20:56] <domux_> yeah
[20:56] <DarthFrog> ./ is current directory.  ~ is home directory.
[20:57] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: actually the nice thing about wine is that you can run it in bottles
[20:57] <shane4ubuntu> I have a few different wine directories so I don't mess up an app I really like, it runs in it's own bottle.
[20:58] <shane4ubuntu> WINEPREFIX=~/.winetest winecfg
[20:59] <shane4ubuntu> actually it is: WINEPREFIX="/home/username/.winetest" winecfg    would setup a new 'bottle' or directory to work out of.
[21:00] <domux_> how do you answer someone with this background color darthfrog
[21:00] <domux_> im using quassel
[21:00] <DarthFrog> domux_: ???  What does background colour have to do with anything?
[21:03] <phoenix_firebrd> hello everyone
[21:03] <domux_> just asking because each time you answer me im seeing an orange colour
[21:04] <yofel> domux_: say his nick in the line
[21:04] <yofel> domux_: this
[21:04] <yofel> compared to this
[21:04] <domux_> ohh okay
[21:04] <domux_> thanks yofel
[21:04] <yofel> ;)
[21:04] <DarthFrog> domux_:  Also, try prefacing your comment with /me.   Have the / in the first column.
[21:04] <phoenix_firebrd> domux_: that is called a hilighted message, you get it when some one typed your nickname
[21:05] <rtdos> and drink it out of glasses, shane4ubuntu (sorry couldn't resist)
[21:05]  * yofel thinks that's nice too indeed ;)
[21:05] <rtdos> thanks darthfrog
[21:05] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: right, I thought it odd at first, but they really do call it bottles.
[21:06] <phoenix_firebrd> domux_: type few letters of a nickname and press tab buttun to complete it, repeted pressing of the tab button shows the possible matches
[21:06]  * DarthFrog agrees with yofel.  Nice, indeed.
[21:06] <domux_> DarthFrog: test
[21:06] <domux_> okay good
[21:07] <rtdos> shane4ubuntu, can wine handle most all versions of windows from 3x upto and include Vista (32bit)?
[21:08] <phoenix_firebrd> domux_: this thing works in kopete too
[21:08] <DarthFrog> domux_:  Tab completion of nicknames is very nice.  But please be careful using it; many times folks get sloppy and don't get the right nick.
[21:08] <domux_> phoenix_firebrd: good to know
[21:08] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: hmm, I think, honestly I haven't messed around with 3x stuff, xp and up for me usually, but I think it can, I know vista is now in the config selection choices
[21:09] <phoenix_firebrd> domux_: nice :)
[21:09]  * DarthFrog finds quassel too much.  Konversation is a simpler IRC client.
[21:09] <domux_> :)
[21:09] <yofel> DarthFrog: how is it too much? the monolithic client is pretty simple
[21:09]  * rtdos prefers xchat and ponders why darthfrog likes konversation?
[21:09] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: wow, down to 2.0!  run winecfg in the terminal and at the bottom you have your windows version selection box, from 2.0 all the way to win 7!
[21:10]  * shane4ubuntu is probably the ONLY one using pidgin. :)
[21:10] <yofel> shane4ubuntu: probaly not, but should be fine as long as you don't use empathy....
[21:11] <rtdos> 2.0 ? wow. that is wild.
[21:11] <shane4ubuntu> yofel: well, I meant in this room. :)  I didn't much care for empathy, that was a bad turn
[21:11] <DarthFrog> I used to use kvirc back in the days.  :-)
[21:11] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: is that not crazy!
[21:12] <domux_> i'll try konversation so !
[21:12] <shane4ubuntu> I did like konverstation, it was nice for kde, and integrated well with the desktop as opposed to xchat, it didn't integrate as well back in the day.
[21:13] <owner_> IS THERE SITE WHERE SOME 1 CAN DOWN LOAD luinx kubuntun?
[21:14] <owner_> a friend down lad the site on my pc
[21:14] <owner_>  but i lost intouch with him
[21:14] <rtdos> wonder if i can find any windows 2.0 software anywhere :)
[21:14] <shane4ubuntu> owner_ http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu   there ya go
[21:15] <owner_> ty shane :)
[21:15] <shane4ubuntu> !kubuntu
[21:15] <owner_> that will help for luinx right?
[21:18] <rtdos> shane4ubuntu: is there even any win2.0 software anywhere still downloadable?
[21:18] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: no idea, perhaps but I really don't know
[21:19] <DarthFrog> rtdos: And more appropriately, why would anyone care?
[21:19]  * DarthFrog ran Windows 1.0 at one point.  Came on a single 360 K floppy.
[21:22] <rtdos> just to play around with (after all, i still play reversi but it only came with Windows 3) :)
[21:25] <Miro8> i accidentally deleted my wifi driver.. how can i install it again?
[21:26] <yofel> Miro8: you mean the .ko file? reinstall your kernel image
[21:26] <Miro8> yofel: yes and how??
[21:27] <yofel> Miro8: which release are you running?
[21:27] <Miro8> Ubuntu 10.10
[21:28] <yofel> Miro8: ok, I'm not sure how to do this in kpackagekit, so open a Konsole and type 'sudo apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-2.6.35-24-generic'
[21:28] <Miro8> ok
[21:33] <shane4ubuntu> how do I disconnect and reconnect my internet?  I have yet to install ifup eth0 doesn't seem to work anylonger.
[21:34] <shane4ubuntu> just says ignoring interface eth0  yet ifconfig -a lists eth0 as the connected thing
[21:35] <rtdos> i get this error when i try to browse drive c: in wine "Unable to run the command specified. The file or folder file:///home/jeff/Documents/.wine/dosdevices/c: does not exist." but when i go to wine configuration screen it won't let me change the drive location. how can i fix this?
[21:36] <shane4ubuntu> ok, figured that out, how do I set my ip with the network manager that is installed??
[21:37] <shane4ubuntu> rtdos: it should be file://home/jeff/.wine/dosdevices/c:
[21:37] <shane4ubuntu> I don't think Documents in there is correct, unless you are talking about inside a window app of some sort.
[21:41] <rtdos> how do i changed it, shane, it won't let me?
[21:44] <rtdos> shane4ubuntu, this is the command entry in my menu:   xdg-open .wine/dosdevices/c:
[21:54] <Daskreech> rtdos: Yes wine works all the way back to 3.x
[21:55] <rtdos> daskreech, i get this error when i try to browse c: drive on my kwin menu: Unable to run the command specified. The file or folder file:///home/jeff/Documents/.wine/dosdevices/c: does not exist.
[21:56] <Daskreech> rtdos: Does it exist?
[21:56] <rtdos> yes.
[21:57] <Daskreech> Why is it there?
[21:57] <rtdos> don't know.
[21:57] <rtdos> where should it be?
[21:57] <rtdos> or how do i reset .wine settings to default (obviously removing the .wine directory didn't work)
[21:58] <rtdos> won't let me change location in wine config.
[21:58] <GinoMan> Hey, I installed a package, and it failed because the dependancies listed are "sun-java6-jre which is a virtual package. or
[21:58] <GinoMan>                            icedtea-java7-jre which is a virtual package. or
[21:58] <GinoMan>                            sun-java6-jdk which is a virtual package. or
[21:58] <GinoMan>                            icedtea-java7-jdk which is a virtual package."
[21:58] <FloodBotK2> GinoMan: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[21:58] <Miro8> how can i open /lib/ in a window explorer?
[21:59] <yofel> GinoMan: those icedtea packages are wrong, someone needs to fix the package - and you can get sun-java from the partner repository
[21:59] <yofel> (enable it in software sources)
[21:59] <rtdos> daskreech, this is the entry in my menu: xdg-open .wine/dosdevices/c:
[21:59] <GinoMan> ok... I was about to ask how to make it say "that package is there correctly even though I don't think it is" because it works
[22:00] <GinoMan> but the package manager thinks it's broken
[22:01] <yofel> GinoMan: the package management doesn't support that, install the dependencies
[22:01] <yofel> where sun-java6-jre is what you actually can install
[22:07] <rtdos> how can i remove / purge wine and re-install wine with default settings? obviously removing .wine directory did not help
[22:09] <GinoMan> thanks
[22:11] <Daskreech> rtdos: winecfg doesn't allow you to change it?
[22:12] <Daskreech> rtdos: What is that relative to?
[22:13] <rtdos> /home/jeff/.wine/dosdevices/drive_c
[22:14] <rtdos> noaXess, daskreech, wine doesn't allow me to change location of drive c
[22:15] <rtdos> and when i tried to run ns48.exe (just for kicks) using the wine windows installer nothing came up.
[22:15] <kb3ien> finally got the thing installed and all it does in cause a K-panic.
[22:16] <kb3ien> i'm going back to vbox v3 at least it gave me VNC and didnt crash the os.
[22:16] <kb3ien> when im done migrating i'll try to get some debugging info to the developers.
[22:16] <rtdos> *BRB*
[22:17] <tiba> Hey , there!
[22:17] <tiba> ??
[22:18] <rork> hi tiba
[22:18] <tiba> hi
[22:18] <tiba> where r u froom?
[22:19] <rork> I'm from the Netherlands, but this is a support channel so general chat in #kubuntu-offtopic please
[22:19] <tiba> ok
[22:20] <rork> if you have any questions about kubuntu you're ofcourse most welcome to ask them :)
[22:21] <tiba> Hey you know how i can get windows messenger ?
[22:21] <tiba> i just saw how to do it with wine but i couldn't do it
[22:22] <GinoMan> tiba: use either pidgin or kopete, I like kopete, but your preferences may vary
[22:22] <rork> There are several native messagers that support the msn protocol, Kopete is the default one for Kubuntu, I'd suggest trying out that one before messing with Wine
[22:22] <tiba> I already know kopete
[22:22] <tiba> i've been using aMSN
[22:23] <tiba> pidgin and emesene
[22:23] <tiba> but i got lots of trouble with them
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> !info kmess
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> pretty good one, I hear$
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> s/$/^
[22:26] <rtdos> use dpkg to reset wine settings to default?
[22:27] <Agu10_> so
[22:52] <rtdos> how do i totally remove wine?
[22:52] <Agu10_> rtdos: why would you do such a thing?
[22:52] <Agu10_> you're fed up with windows, even with wine?
[22:52] <Agu10_> lol
[22:53] <rtdos> i can't change path for drive c: and i can't get it to launch when i use it to run a windows *.exe file
[22:53] <rtdos> or how i can reconfigure or reinstall wine to default settings?
[22:57] <rtdos> even with wine, yes, Agu10_ :)
[22:57] <yofel> rtdos: remove ~/.wine and run 'sudo apt-get purge wine' or whatever the packagename is
[22:58] <rtdos> i did that yofel, but it's still there (in my menu) and it still launches
[22:59] <yofel> no idea, it should't be able to launch if you remove all wine packages
[23:06] <mudassar> hello kubuntu people I need help regarding smtp and skype
[23:10] <mudassar> no one there ?
[23:40] <mudassar> i need help regarding smtp server