[07:38] <sagaci> so if I want to package something, would it be best to package it for natty?
[07:38] <sagaci> rather than maverick
[07:44] <kklimonda> sagaci: yes
[10:31] <hrw> morning
[10:31] <hrw> I added debdiff to bug 691407 - can someone check and if it is ok then do upload?
[10:36] <geser> hrw: can you convert it to a proper quilt patch (in debian/patches) so your change doesn't end as debian-changes-*?
[10:37] <dapal> hrw: and maybe forward it to me, since I'm going to make a bash-completion 1.3 upstream release in the next few days?</spoiler>
[10:38] <hrw> ok
[10:38] <hrw> will do both
[10:38] <hrw> thx
[10:38] <dapal> hrw: (nevermind, for next time, I'm already committing that)
[10:38] <hrw> dapal: ok
[10:39] <dapal> hm. Is "apt-get changelog" an Ubuntu-specific thing?
[10:39] <dapal> I don't have it on my sid.
[10:39] <dapal> $ LANG=C apt-get changelog bash-completion
[10:39] <dapal> E: Invalid operation changelog
[10:40] <hrw> dapal: yes, it is ubuntuism
[10:41] <hrw> dapal: ubuntu packages have changelogs cut to 10 entries
[10:41] <dapal> hrw: ack, then go ahead with the quilt patch, and look for a sponsor. I'll do a merge when I'll release 1.3
[10:41] <dapal> hrw: ah, right.
[10:41] <dapal> thanks for reminding :)
[10:42] <evaluate> hello dapal :-)
[10:42] <hrw> geser: http://pastebin.com/bxD3NGW3 looks properly?
[10:42] <dapal> hello evaluate :)
[10:42] <dapal> evaluate: I'm replying to your mail right now :)
[10:43] <evaluate> dapal, sure, no hurry here
[10:44] <geser> hrw: yes, much better
[10:44] <hrw> geser: ok, will add to bug and hunt for sponsoring
[10:47] <dapal> evaluate: could you point me to a .dsc ? :)
[10:48] <dapal> evaluate: I wrote other things in the mail, if you have any doubts re the advocacy, just ask :)
[10:49] <evaluate> dapal, hmm, I pushed the package to mentors.d.n, but I just noticed that the version there is the old one (although dput didn't report any erorr). I'm checking on this roght now
[10:50] <dapal> evaluate: also, since you receive the confirmation mail from mentors, it'd be nice if you included the link in the RFS mail :) (so I don't have to dig up mentors to find it, but just dget it)
[10:51] <evaluate> dapal, awkward: http://pastebin.com/LTxZ5Awf
[10:52] <evaluate> dapal, yes, I normally include that link (and did so in the past) I just forgot about it this time. Sorry about that
[10:52] <dapal> evaluate: remove the *.upload files you have there ;)
[10:54] <evaluate> dapal, ok, dput worked again (just like the first time around), but mentors.d.n still shows me the old version... http://pastebin.com/1mUxxaZa
[10:55] <dapal> evaluate: maybe it's just down/under maintainance/whatever. Do you have any place to upload: .debian.tar.gz, .orig.tar.gz, .dsc ?
[10:55] <evaluate> dapal, sure. Give me a minute please.
[10:55] <dapal> evaluate: if not, just send them to my inbox. :)
[11:03] <evaluate> dapal, http://clipit.rspwn.com/files/
[11:04] <dapal> evaluate: uhm. I get 404's.
[11:04] <dapal> (on the files, while I see the listing)
[11:04] <dapal> i.e. wget http://clipit.rspwn.com/files/clipit_1.3.11-1.dsc → 404
[11:05] <evaluate> dapal, ok, please try http://b3r3.info/files/
[11:06] <evaluate> I guess the wordpress installation that's on clipit.rspwn.com screwes that folder up...
[11:06] <dapal> yup, it works
[11:09] <hrw> dapal, geser: bash-completion bug 691407 landed in archive
[11:09] <dapal> nice, I'll re-check that when I'll make a merge for 1.3/2.0
[11:10] <dapal> (still haven't decided what to exactly include in the release)
[11:12] <dapal> evaluate: uploaded. If I had to decide re DM based only on this package, I'd say yes ;)
[11:13] <dapal> evaluate: still, it'd be nicer if you maintained other 2-3 packages :)
[11:14] <evaluate> dapal, ok. I replied to your mail
[11:15] <dapal> evaluate: you can directly contact me :)
[11:19] <evaluate> dapal, ok. I have also seen that gpointing-device-settings has been put up for adoption and it's quite an interesting package, but it seems a bit complicated for a newb...
[11:21] <dapal> evaluate: shared libraries are evil beasts, but I can help you if you want to get it :)
[11:24] <evaluate> well, if you have some links for me, where I could get some knowledge on what for example the *.install and *.symbols file are and what they do, and also what to take into consideration with such packages, I'd be happy to adopt it...
[11:24] <dapal> evaluate: *.install files, simple -- just read "man dh_install"
[11:25] <dapal> evaluate: symbols files are only used in shared libraries, wait a minute
[11:25] <dapal> evaluate: http://wiki.debian.org/UsingSymbolsFiles , man dpkg-gensymbols
[11:29] <evaluate> dapal, cool. Thank you!
[11:29] <dapal> evaluate: in a word, they reflect the API of the library, and how it changes through versions
[11:30] <dapal> evaluate: if you remove something from the .symbols, it means the library broke the API, so it needs a SONAME bump and a package rename
[11:30] <dapal> evaluate: also, library packaging has certain policies -- but since this isn't a new package, and you're probably adopting it, you'll have time to learn :)
[11:39] <evaluate> dapal, ok, I'll contact the maintainer. Not sure if I can really "show off" my skills with this package though, as upstream seems to be kinda slow with releases (last release was more than half a year ago).
[11:40] <dapal> evaluate: you can always fix bugs :D
[14:29] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: ping
[14:29] <highvoltage> good morning everyone
[14:30] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: pong
[14:31] <ari-tczew> hi highvoltage
[14:31] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: could you add comment on MoM when you have done debdiff for merge? we use like "merge bug #xxxxxx"
[14:32] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: is it really necessary? I fear I don't have a lot of time for doing that..
[14:32] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: 30 sec of work
[14:32] <ari-tczew> and you won't waste time of other contributors
[14:32] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: they can check the bugs of that package ;)
[14:33] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: are you egoist?
[14:35] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: no, I'm just saying the reason why I don't do that (usually). Another reason (like I said above) is that I don't have much time to spend for doing that :) we have different opinions, and that doesn't mean a person is egoist
[14:36] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: ok, I'll still inhibit your core-dev application.
[14:38] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: if your comment will be constructive I will have no problems accepting it (aside if it's positive or not ;)
[14:41] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: if applicant couldn't spend 30 sec for improve flow of information, he is not ready to join core-dev.
[14:41] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: so in your opinion who doesn't that shouldn't be core-dev? :)
[14:42] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: dunno, better is rate on examples
[14:43] <ari-tczew> 100% greenhorns shouldn't join core-dev
[14:46] <BlackZ> ari-tczew: I can't agree with you. But let me tell you a thing: like somebody else said you, your behavior is a bit "provocative" and "irritating" sometimes. Unfortunately, this is not only a my impression.. in Ubuntu we're a great family and I'm sorry to see people like you not respecting the Ubuntu CoC..
[14:49] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: nice play, changing the subject of discussion
[14:51] <ari-tczew> BlackZ: so Ubuntu community is a totalitarian system? if you have another view than CoC, get out?
[14:51] <ari-tczew> I can! but what will say Ubuntu development...
[14:52] <Pici> Lets be civil here.
[14:53] <ari-tczew> Pici: hehe, I thought we are.
[14:54] <ari-tczew> CoC is blocking my sincerity. what can I do?
[14:55] <Kmos> BlackZ: how about to spend time doing the debdiff instead of the bad talking?
[14:55] <kklimonda> ari-tczew: CoC is not about the substance but a form.
[14:56] <ari-tczew> hello Kmos
[14:56] <Kmos> hi ari-tczew
[14:56] <highvoltage> My personal code of conduct is much stricter than the CoC so following the CoC has never been a problem for me personally
[14:56] <BlackZ> Kmos: *bad talking* ?
[15:12] <ScottK> BlackZ: FWIW, I agree that putting comments in MoM when you upload something is overkill.
[15:13]  * kklimonda would suggest a direct link for package's b.lp.n page sorted by added date in the descending order
[15:13] <ScottK> Kmos: AFAIK you still aren't supposed to be involved in Ubuntu development.  Please stick with that.
[15:14] <kklimonda> that would make it easy for people who care about package to see if someone is working on it, and remove the need for updating an additional page when you start work
[15:15] <ScottK> kklimonda: It only shows up on MoM until the next time it updates.  It's a pretty narrow window of time to worry about it.
[15:18] <ScottK> Kmos: OK.  I understand that's not the case, but I will say that I don't find such comments helpful participation.
[15:19] <ScottK> cody-somerville: Since I gather you're supposed to be keeping track ...  ^^^ This we don't need.
[15:23] <Kmos> ScottK: It was just a personal comment for something that isn't nice to read, nothing more, but I'll continue with my mouth closed. I don't see this as Ubuntu dev participation, but Ok.
[15:24] <ScottK> Kmos: The topic of this channel is Ubuntu development.
[15:25] <joaopinto> here we go again, the helpful, friendly and constructive law enforcement
[15:32] <ScottK> joaopinto: I'd like some helpful friendly contribution to development.  If people aren't going to do that, there's no point in them being here.
[15:34] <joaopinto> ScottK, "people aren't going to do that" is an assumption from your side, based on past experience
[15:34] <ScottK> joaopinto: If it's based on experience, unless there's evidence to the contrary, it's fact, not an assumption.  So far Kmos's contribution is to bitch about how other people are talking.  I'm still waiting for something productive to happen.
[15:39]  * kklimonda just discovered abort-on-upstream-changes option and is wondering why isn't it default for v3..
[15:41] <tumbleweed> kklimonda: yeah, I wish it was, but that would break backwards compatibility
[15:43] <kklimonda> that would also save us from uploading packages that revert all patches - which is probably going to become a new badge of honor ;)
[15:44] <kklimonda> tumbleweed: are you talking about breaking compatilibity now, or has it been decided not to enable it by default when the new source format was being drafted? i.e. is this a new option or has it been since the beginning?
[15:44]  * tumbleweed calls those quilt anti-patches :)
[15:44] <tumbleweed> it was a selling point to people who didn't like quilt - that they could just treat it as a 1.0 package, and their patches would get stored as quilt patches
[15:45] <joaopinto> ScottK, criticism can be a constructive form of contributing, I just wished we could drop the blacklisting approach and just either ignore or support those willing to contribute
[15:46] <ScottK> joaopinto: I wish we didn't have people attempt 'contribution' that was so destructive it needed blacklisting.  Fortunately it's only happened once so far.
[15:50] <joaopinto> I remember school education from my parents stories, when it was freely accepted that punishement and isolation was a proper mean for education
[15:51] <joaopinto> since then there has been a significant improvement on society, we are expected to have better people management skills these days
[15:51] <kklimonda> actually, punishment is a perfectly fine as an education tool if used rationally.
[15:52] <kklimonda> meh, I should finish making a dinner instead of discussing philosophical topics.. ;)
[15:52] <joaopinto> :P
[15:53] <geser> the ban was not issued easily, it took time and several attempts to resolve the problem and was a last measure.
[15:55] <joaopinto> geser, I am aware of the story, I still don't think it was the best outcome
[16:05] <joaopinto> I don't see how the existing discussion between the "unbanned" users was any more constructive than the comment from Kmos in order to prompt for a ban warning
[16:32] <ScottK> joaopinto: Which is why I think the whole unbanning thing is a mess.  He should just find another way to spend his time.  This is already causing distraction.  But I can already guess you'll have a different view.
[16:36] <joaopinto> I don't believe bans are positive or even effective means to block someone genuinely willing to participate in an open community style managed project
[16:38] <micahg> udienz: just to update you on firestarter, I got a little more information about it and the patch is mostly fine, there's one extra change that shouldn't be needed, I'll test and upload tonight if it works, sorry for the delay
[16:46] <ari-tczew> Kmos, BlackZ: sorry for my away, I have problems with electricity
[17:06] <joaopinto> ari-tczew, reading your previous conversation, if you don't agree with the CoC is very unlikely that you will feel happy contributing to Ubuntu
[17:07] <ari-tczew> joaopinto: I'm reading into your mind that you don't want me here.
[17:07] <joaopinto> our community is not totalitarian but there is a common base of values which is shared, otherwise we would not be a community at all, mostly of those values are described in the CoC
[17:09] <ari-tczew> joaopinto: OK, I'll leave this circus and I'll have more free time for me.
[17:10] <joaopinto> ari-tczew, this is not about being wanted or not, this is about you wanting to be part of this community or not
[17:10] <ari-tczew> bdrung: does new update-maintainer update also debian/control if control.in exist?
[17:12] <ari-tczew> joaopinto: I see no problem. That's all.
[17:15] <joaopinto> ari-tczew, that is not an answer for the question about willing to be or not a community member
[17:16] <joaopinto> and judging from your answer you have doubts about your willingness :)
[17:16] <ari-tczew> joaopinto: You're right.
[17:19] <ari-tczew> joaopinto: I don't like the politics of love.
[18:25] <aboudreault> What's the command to see all lintian warning of a package? is this dependant of the debhelper version used?
[18:32] <bdrung> ari-tczew: yes
[20:16] <bcurtiswx_> how can I get pbuilder to use the gnome3-team PPA ?
[20:19] <anoteng> you could just use pbuilder --login, and add the ppa to sources.list
[20:26] <bcurtiswx_> anoteng, thx i'll try that
[20:26] <micahg> bcurtiswx_: there's also the OTHERMIRROR parameter
[20:27] <micahg> err...that should be --othermirror for the parameter :-/
[20:30] <anoteng> bcurtiswx: just remember to apt-get update before logging out again, easy to forget that one...
[20:31] <cybertron> hi i'm realy new into debian packaging, i'll try to build an .deb package only with my binary tool and some extra files, but dont get it :/
[20:32] <cybertron> i tried the ubuntu wiki way
[20:33] <cybertron> s "Building the package locally)
[20:33] <cybertron> +a
[20:33] <bcurtiswx_> micahg, how do I use the --othermirror paramter?
[20:35] <bcurtiswx_> micahg, nvm i hit the spacebor too many times.. i see it now
[20:41] <joaopinto> cybertron, do you have an objective question ?
[20:45] <bcurtiswx_> pbn build empathy_2.91.4.3-0ubuntu1~build1.dsc  --othermirror "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu natty main"
[20:46] <bcurtiswx_> pbn is pbuilder-dist natty
[20:46] <bcurtiswx_> that isn't working but appears from the man to be right
[20:46] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: pbuilder-dist may not play well with --othermirror
[20:47] <tumbleweed> hmm, no, looks like it should
[20:47] <tumbleweed> but you'll need to do an update with the --othermirror first (I think)
[20:49] <cybertron> joaopinto: hm yes in general, perhaps I'm on the right way now...I create in the base dir usr/bin and usr/share/foo, is that correct?
[20:50] <joaopinto> cybertron, which base dir ?
[20:50] <cybertron> foobar-0.4
[20:51] <cybertron> foobar-0.4/usr/
[20:51] <bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, would i need --save-after-login
[20:51] <joaopinto> you don't create install directories in the source
[20:51] <joaopinto> which type of application are you packaging, which language ?
[20:51] <cybertron> joaopinto: k, then where I have to place my images and so on?
[20:52] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: if you want to make changes while logged in, yes. however, pbuilder-dist passes the --overide-config option to pbuilder, so it'll replace the sources.list at the start of the build
[20:52] <cybertron> c++ code
[20:52] <joaopinto> cybertron, the images are located at some directory of your source right ?
[20:52] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: so, I suggest pbn update --othermirror foo; pbn build bar.dsc --othermirror foo
[20:53] <joaopinto> cybertron, you are building a source package, using dh_make and friends ?
[20:53] <cybertron> joaopinto: yes normaly I have this structur foo-binay and images/
[20:53] <cybertron> joaopinto: yes with dh_make, but I wanna only package my binary+images
[20:54] <bcurtiswx_> Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net/gnome3-team/gnome3/ubuntu/ natty/main Translation-en
[20:54] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: that's expected
[20:54] <joaopinto> cybertron, you don't need to recreate the install directories as you do with binary builds
[20:55] <cybertron> joaopinto: but what then?
[20:55] <joaopinto> cybertron, edit debian/dirs add there the directories that you need to be created
[20:55] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: please file a pbuilder-dist bug (package ubuntu-dev-tools) about easy building with PPAs, that sounds like a useful feature
[20:55] <joaopinto> dh_installdirs which is invoked from the debian/rules will make sure they are created in the temporary location for package building
[20:55] <cybertron> joaopinto: there is no dir file
[20:55] <joaopinto> dirs
[20:56] <joaopinto> create it if needed
[20:56] <cybertron> joaopinto: so like debian/bin and debian/bin/images ?
[20:56] <joaopinto> no
[20:57] <joaopinto> you create a file name debian/dirs, containing: usr/bin<enter>usr/share/appname/images
[20:58] <cybertron> k and then? where I have to put my files?
[20:59] <joaopinto> aren't your files already present on the source directory ?
[21:00] <cybertron> joaopinto: if u mean in debian/source ...no
[21:00] <joaopinto> uff, no, I mean your source directory
[21:00] <joaopinto> you don't manually place files from your source into debian/
[21:01] <cybertron> k then it is correct
[21:02] <cybertron> joaopinto: and now? I have something to add to the rules?
[21:06] <bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, sources.list isn't saved in a --save-after-login
[21:06] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: it is, but it gets replaced when pbuilder is called with --overwrite-config (which is what pbuilder-dist does)
[21:06] <bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, ah OK
[21:07] <tumbleweed> I think that's a poor design choice, and I might change it (I'm busy tweaking related bits)
[21:08] <bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, OK
[21:11] <joaopinto> cybertron, bett use some minimal rules like /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny
[21:12] <cybertron> joaopinto: i tried now debuild and it builds but in the .deb there isnt any file of me
[21:13] <joaopinto> which is fine, because you don't have a makefile with an install rule, and you didn't yet specificy that files should be installed
[21:13] <bcurtiswx_> tumbleweed, bug #697411
[21:13] <joaopinto> do you have a minimal Makefile which builds the source ?
[21:13] <tumbleweed> bcurtiswx_: thanks
[21:13] <cybertron> joaopinto: no cauz I dont wanna compile?
[21:14] <joaopinto> so you aren't building from source ? you are going to ship the binaries in the orig tarball ?
[21:14] <cybertron> joaopinto: yes
[21:14] <joaopinto> ok
[21:14] <joaopinto> so now just edit/create debian/install
[21:15] <joaopinto> the format is: source target
[21:15] <joaopinto> example
[21:15] <joaopinto> images/*.png usr/share/appname/images
[21:16] <joaopinto> everyone, is http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ the proper place to look for FBTFS needing working ?
[21:16] <geser> yes
[21:16] <tumbleweed> joaopinto: those are the ones that are currently failed, there is another list on udd.debian.org that will fail if rebuilt
[21:17] <joaopinto> what's the recommended :) ?
[21:17] <tumbleweed> fixing as many as possible :P
[21:17] <cybertron> joaopinto: k, done
[21:17] <joaopinto> is there a bug automatically created for FTBFS ?
[21:17] <joaopinto> cybertron, just rerun debuild
[21:18] <tumbleweed> joaopinto: no, the uploader (and maintainer, IIRC) get e-mails when a package fails to build
[21:21] <cybertron> joaopinto: looks great :D now testing to install with dpkg?
[21:31] <cybertron> joaopinto: mach thx, works fine
[21:32] <cybertron> mach=mich
[21:32] <cybertron> gan
[21:32] <cybertron> much!
[21:34] <joaopinto> :)
[21:35] <cybertron> joaopinto: but a last question...why does my binary is finding the images? cauz it is linked in the binaray as ./images and not /usr/share?
[21:36] <joaopinto> uh ? images are not linked, unless you are inlining them as data, in which case you don't need them externally at all
[21:36] <joaopinto> how do you read the images ?
[21:36] <cybertron> oh ok, dont know exact i worked with the sfml framework
[21:38] <joaopinto> no idea what is that about :)
[21:39] <joaopinto> ah, http://www.sfml-dev.org/
[21:39] <cybertron> joaopinto: np: its a multimedia framework for c++
[21:39] <cybertron> you can code realy easy games with it
[21:41] <joaopinto> when can we get your game from :P ?
[21:42] <cybertron> haha
[21:42] <cybertron> wont be released  ;)
[21:42] <cybertron> its just a project for school
[21:42] <cybertron> and just a "gamepart"
[21:43] <joaopinto> asking open source community packaging support for a closed source project gives you bad karma
[21:43] <cybertron> its a game to lean sql injections
[21:43] <cybertron> +r
[21:43] <cybertron> joaopinto: it will never finished
[21:43] <joaopinto> :P
[21:45] <cybertron> k now its time to sleep, much thx again, bye
[22:28] <micahg> it has been suggested if one needs to bump a build dep because the slower archs (arm, PPC) are out of date,  that should be called a no source change rebuild if the change is not desired to be kept (i.e. want a sync), I think this should be a regular Ubuntu change since there actually is a change in the packaging, even if it's temporary, opinions?
[22:54] <tumbleweed> micahg: I'd agree, no change = no change, temporary changes should be labelled as such
[22:57] <mr_pouit> tumbleweed: is "Bump xfce4-panel-dev b-dep to >= 4.7.7 to force using the new version." okay, or should I add "because lp doesn't support binnmus and makes me waste my time doing 40 source uploads instead of a single mail to -release" next time?
[22:58] <tumbleweed> mr_pouit: yeah, that's fine
[23:04] <micahg> tumbleweed: fine, as in a valid use of buildX?
[23:05] <tumbleweed> micahg: that could be a reasonable use of buildX, it'll mean auto-sync later
[23:05] <tumbleweed> it is misleading, though
[23:05] <micahg> tumbleweed: that's my issue with it
[23:06]  * micahg wishes this was written in a policy somewhere either way
[23:20] <bdrung> tumbleweed: "psuedo-packages."