[00:08] <bigcalm> Which /etc/ files tells you what version of ubuntu is installed?
[00:09] <bigcalm> s/files/file
[00:10] <bigcalm> lsb-release ?
[00:10] <howefield> lsb_release will tell
[00:11] <bigcalm> Parents' server is running 9.04. Wondering if I attempt a remote distupgrade or not
[00:11] <bigcalm> Would be happier if it were on an LTS
[00:11] <jacobw> is it lsb-release?
[00:12] <bigcalm> On 10.04: # ls /etc/lsb*
[00:12] <bigcalm> /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh  /etc/lsb-release
[00:12] <bigcalm> On 9.04: $ ls /etc/lsb*
[00:12] <bigcalm> /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh  /etc/lsb-release
[00:12] <bigcalm> Erm
[00:12] <bigcalm> Ignore me
[00:13] <jacobw> yeah it is, i've just checked, was thinking about /etc/debian_version
[00:13] <bigcalm> Doh, there is the command lsb_release
[00:13] <bigcalm> That's what was confusing me
[00:19] <ali1234> hackers in my vps :(
[00:21] <Azelphur> it's more likely than you think :(
[00:22] <ali1234> someone decided to convert their website to e107 and it got exploited by a bot
[00:23] <ali1234> then the bot owner installed rapidshare leech and downloaded 50GB in 2 days
[00:25] <Azelphur> ouch
[00:26] <ali1234> it normally seems about 500MB traffic per month :/
[00:27] <Azelphur> that's quiet :o
[00:27] <Azelphur> My dedi has used 1.1TB this month
[00:27] <ali1234> yeah, it only has some crummy websites on it, it's not actually mine - just get called when something goes wrong
[00:27] <ali1234> "why are we getting charged for extra bandwidth?"
[00:28] <Azelphur> hehe :)
[00:42] <JohnThomson> Hi, anyone here wanting to help the Linux community in possibly a very major way, please contact me about volunteer work, data mining, in exchange for free website hosting and email hosting. Basically, we are trying to convert the UK Government and, ultimately, the uk population, to Ubuntu, or at least, Linux. Email me at "mail@johnthomson.me.uk"
[00:42] <JohnThomson> Thanx
[00:54] <ali1234> JohnThomson: data mining?
[01:10] <ali1234> ... and we're back in business
[01:11] <ali1234> i wonder how long it will take mr website designer guy to notice his login doesn't work any more
[01:12] <dwatkins> One million seconds.
[01:17] <Azelphur> exactly.
[05:19] <lazarus_> hoping i may have fixed my bsod issue
[05:50] <kaushal> hi
[05:50] <kaushal> Good Morning Everyone
[05:56] <kaushal> Can someone recommend any good apps for 10.10 ?
[06:01] <BigRedS> kaushal: what sort of apps?
[06:01] <kaushal> for desktop use ?
[06:02] <BigRedS> to do what with, though? I can reccomend Claws-mail, vim, terminator and openarena if you like...
[06:02] <MartijnVdS> sure, but what do you want to do with them?
[06:02] <BigRedS> but it's likely that none of them are what you're after
[06:04] <MartijnVdS> there isn't one (set of) "the best app(s)"
[06:04] <MartijnVdS> it really depends on what you want to do, and how you like to do things
[06:06] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: like thunderbird
[06:07] <kaushal> if there is a new message there is a pop up
[06:07] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: I prefer gmail/gcalendar
[06:41] <kaushal> is there a way to calculate CIDR from Netmask ?
[06:42] <BigRedS> yeah, given the network address - they both define the same thing
[06:42] <BigRedS> there's a bunch of websites about with js things for doing it or, I think, ipcalc is in the repos
[06:42] <BigRedS> it's certainly in debian's
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> ipcalc and ip6calc
[06:46] <MartijnVdS> ip6calc does v4 and v6
[06:50] <BigRedS> That said, ipcalc is one of those things I try to not let on that I'm using
[06:50] <BigRedS> just to give the impression of that little bit more competence :)
[07:11] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "I do it in my head *stabs at ipcalc*"
[07:12] <BigRedS> haha, almost exactly! Used to be a running joke when I shared an office with a cisco wizzkid
[07:13] <MartijnVdS> Tea!
[07:20] <BigRedS> Seriously now, Apache, absence of a log file shouldn't cause you to not start
[07:20] <BigRedS> especially at 07:20
[07:37] <czajkowski> BigRedS: not a good start to your day then
[07:40] <maco> czajkowski: i went to a ceili!
[07:42] <czajkowski> maco: oh fun
[07:43] <maco> czajkowski: i got a bunch of my family to go along too and we learned 4 dances
[07:58] <czajkowski> siege of Ennis?
[07:58] <maco> siege of carrick, two hand hornpipe, haymaker's jig, and keel row
[08:05]  * TheOpenSourcerer ponders the "two hand hornpipe"...
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: !family ;P
[08:17] <BigRedS> czajkowski: ach, it's not so bad
[08:17] <BigRedS> at least it was so early nobody noticed :)
[08:36] <daubers> Morning
[08:37] <kaushal> daubers: Good Morning
[08:38] <daubers> Still not found someone with a hot wire cutter :(
[08:55] <screen-x> morning :)
[08:55] <andylockran> guys
[08:56] <andylockran> recommendation for moving imap folders around an imap tree?
[08:58] <screen-x> andylockran: within a single user account?
[09:00] <screen-x> if so, a normal mail client should do..
[09:00] <andylockran> screen-x: yeah
[09:01] <kazade> morning
[09:03] <andylockran> screen-x: yeah, it does a mailbox rename, rather than a move.. which is good
[09:03] <andylockran> but ideally like to do it via a CLI so I know it's been done. rather than trusting the mail client too much.
[09:08] <screen-x> andylockran: just been experimenting with the cyrus imap store, manipulating folders directly doesn't work, probably need to rebuild indexes with cyradm after moving stuff around.
[09:10] <andylockran> yeah
[09:23] <hoover> mornin all
[09:23] <BigRedS> g'morning!
[09:25] <hoover> -5 C here this morning *shudder*
[09:25] <BigRedS> -5? Positively tropical 8 or so
[09:26] <hoover> Nice.. in the uk? temps not expected to rise here until Friday or so
[09:26] <hoover> (germany btw)
[09:30] <screen-x> +6 gere
[09:30] <screen-x> err here
[09:32] <screen-x> Heh, my parcel arrived at UPS Cardiff at 19:28 yesterday, it then arrived at UPS Cardiff at 04:39 this morning..
[09:38] <JamesTait> Moooooooornin' all!
[09:38] <screen-x> \o JamesTait
[09:40] <hoover> screen-x: Looks like it had a good night out in Cardiff ;-)
[09:40] <screen-x> ;-)
[09:57] <czajkowski> nperry: ping
[09:57] <kazade> hehe, just closed my first bug as "Wont fix" - seems evil somehow
[09:58] <czajkowski> kazade: I'm sure folks will agree on it and comment with such :)
[09:59] <kazade> czajkowski, indeed :)
[10:01] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[10:03] <bigcalm> Anybody know when cron.daily is run?
[10:04] <screen-x> bigcalm: 25 6    * * *   root    test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )
[10:04] <czajkowski> kazade: is a it fun bug or just a impossible to fix or just you really do not want to fix it
[10:04] <bigcalm> screen-x: ta. Where did you find that?
[10:04] <screen-x> /etc/crontab
[10:04] <kazade> czajkowski, no it is actually a "really not our problem" bug
[10:04] <bigcalm> Doh
[10:05] <czajkowski> kazade: ah fair enough
[10:05] <shauno> I wonder how it populates those; mine's a few hours off that, so I assume they're not hardcoded
[10:06] <krimzon2> mine are different too
[10:06] <shauno> never thought of that, but that's clever :)
[10:07] <screen-x> good idea, especially for VMs..
[10:13] <screen-x> I've just checked three lucid boxes, and they all have 25 6    * * * for cron.daily, there is nothing in the pre or post inst scripts to randomise it.. 25 6 * * * is also in the crontab in the cron package (for lucid)
[10:13] <popey> mine is 6:05
[10:13] <popey> but mine started life as ubuntu dapper
[10:13] <popey> iirc
[10:14] <shauno> mine's 4:25, but I don't recall changing it
[10:14] <screen-x> shauno: lucid?
[10:14] <shauno> yeah
[10:14] <shauno> (had to check, I'm bad with names)
[10:16] <shauno> altho I supose there's every chance bitfolk poke it as part of their rollout (which would be perfectly sensible)
[10:16] <screen-x> ahh ha
[10:16]  * screen-x checks bitfolk vps
[10:16] <screen-x> nope, still 25 6 * * *
[10:17] <AlanBell> bytemark certainly do, they have some stuff to jiggle the clocks too I think
[10:30] <bigcalm> I wonder why my job didn't run then
[10:31] <bigcalm> Is it because I didn't include the full path to the command being used?
[10:32] <czajkowski> feck need to get some Ubuntu Cds
[10:33] <MooDoo> czajkowski: best get burning :p
[10:34] <AlanBell> we have an allocation of CDs as a loco somewhere
[10:34] <hoover> I'm still having issues with random freezes / crashes in 10.10 on amd64 and intel...
[10:35] <MooDoo> AlanBell: it would be nice to split the allocation around the country for ease of postage
[10:35] <MooDoo> for events and stuff
[10:35] <awilkins> Might even be nice to start doing USB sticks
[10:35] <awilkins> Or SD Cards
[10:35] <AlanBell> we should probably figure out what events we want to use them at in each cycle
[10:35] <MooDoo> awilkins: to expensive i think
[10:35] <awilkins> The small ones are probably nearly as cheap as media now
[10:36] <AlanBell> this is a Daviey question i think
[10:36] <czajkowski> awilkins: USB are too expensive, we've asked
[10:36] <awilkins> Ah well :-)
[10:36] <AlanBell> czajkowski: is this for fosdem or the plugfest or something else?
[10:36] <czajkowski> MooDoo: what we do in Ireland is one person gets them, as that's the easiest way for the shipment to come and he then sends out packages, or people collect them off him and spread them out elsewhere
[10:36] <awilkins> I just do myself one anyway - much faster than optical media
[10:36] <czajkowski> AlanBell: BETT next week, just sent request to Canonical for them
[10:37] <AlanBell> ok, that generally uses up quite a few boxes
[10:37] <awilkins> The LiveCDs are _not_ optimal - the drive heads seek way too much, there should be something that works out the order the files are accessed in the stream and optimizes for it
[10:37] <czajkowski> awilkins: just asked for a small enough number
[10:37] <czajkowski> bah
[10:37] <czajkowski> AlanBell: just asked for a small enough number
[10:37] <awilkins> Or just dump the whole image into RAM and use it from there
[10:37] <andylockran> ureadahead for CDs ?
[10:38] <popey> awilkins: thats a boot-time option already
[10:38] <popey> unless it's been removed
[10:38] <MooDoo> do we have a lightscribe lable for ubuntu cd's i might do a few of them.
[10:39] <popey> maybe not, knoppix has it
[10:47] <shauno> sounds like 'toram' is meant to work, per bug 25496
[11:08] <KrisDouglas> Hello everyone
[11:08] <hoover> hello
[11:17] <bigcalm> Will I get any post today? Place your bets!
[11:19] <screen-x> bigcalm: yes!
[11:19] <gord> why wouldn't you?
[11:19] <screen-x> but it will probably be a takeaway menu :(
[11:19] <bigcalm> gord: lazy postmen
[11:19] <bigcalm> screen-x: damn, that would be likely
[11:19] <gord> ah, i have similar problems
[11:20] <bigcalm> I'm considering cancling my graze.com subscription
[11:20] <hoover> hey biggie
[11:20] <gord> woo the scott pilgrim vs the world: the game soundtrack was on ubuntu one, i love ubuntu one more every day -_-
[11:20] <bigcalm> Hi Hoovie
[11:21] <bigcalm> GF's brother gave me SPvsTW on Blu-Ray yesterday as a delayed xmas present
[11:21] <bigcalm> Excited to be able to watch it again
[11:21] <gord> wasn't too impressed with the movie, but i looooove the books and the game
[11:21] <BigRedS> that film confused the hell out of me
[11:22] <bigcalm> Not read the books or played the game
[11:22] <DJones> SPvsTW?
[11:22] <screen-x> DJones: see gords line
[11:22] <MooDoo> DJones: scott pilgrim vs the world
[11:22] <DJones> Ah
[11:22] <gord> yeah it'll do that, it has weird pacing. in the books the events depicted in the film happen over months, possibly years. in the movie its all crammed into two weeks or so
[11:22] <gord> its weird
[11:22] <BigRedS> Yeah, did seem all rather hectic
[11:23] <bigcalm> And I thought that Canadian relationships just happened quickly
[11:23] <screen-x> BigRedS: problem is, that films dipicting life at normal speed are rather boring.
[11:26] <BigRedS> screen-x: Napoleon Dynamyte comes to mind :)
[11:27] <screen-x> haven't seen that one..
[11:27] <gord> don't
[11:28] <BigRedS> haha
[11:28] <BigRedS> It's a film in which almost nothing at all happens
[11:28] <davmor2> morning all
[11:29] <kaushal> Hi
[11:30] <kaushal> please suggest/guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-January/238026.html ?
[11:31] <terran> Napoleon Dynamite is excellent
[11:43] <SuperMatt> ok, anyone want to tell me what I might be doing wrong: I have set my preferred browser to be firefox, but whenever I load a URL in gwibber, it tries to open in my last preferred browser - chromium
[11:44] <SuperMatt> in fact, I double click an html file on my desktop, that goes to chromium too
[11:44] <BigRedS> what does
[11:44] <BigRedS> ls -l /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser
[11:44] <BigRedS> output?
[11:44] <SuperMatt> so how is it getting my default browser so wrong?
[11:45] <SuperMatt> I see
[11:45] <BigRedS> 'cause that's another of the places you can set teh default :)
[11:45] <SuperMatt> seems a little silly to have it in two places but not update both
[11:45] <SuperMatt> thanks
[11:45] <BigRedS> that should be a symlink to whatever executable you want to run as a browser
[11:46] <BigRedS> I gather one was the fashion, then the other became it, and nobody quite standardised on which one to follow
[11:46] <BigRedS> that's the wonderful thing about standards, there's so many to choose from :)
[11:46] <screen-x> I presume System > Preferences > Preferred Apps sets a gconf key?
[11:46] <mattt> i couldn't tell if i loved or hated SPvsTW
[11:47] <screen-x> mattt: sounds like an overall "meh"
[11:47] <gord> maybe you are capable of emotions that are somewhere in the middle of "love" and "hate"
[11:47] <mattt> gord: :/
[11:47]  * mattt stares at gord
[11:47] <BigRedS> starWarsQuote()
[11:47] <screen-x> mattt: in a loving or hating way?
[11:48] <mattt> screen-x: :P
[11:51] <SuperMatt> BigRedS: didn't work
[11:52] <SuperMatt> I've even rebooted my pc
[11:52] <SuperMatt> ah, there's also gnome-www-browser
[11:53] <kaushal> Checking in again for the query ?
[11:53] <SuperMatt> and changing gnome-www-browser didn't work >.<
[11:54] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: apt-get remove chromium   ? In all honestly, that was the first thing I tried when 10.10 clobbered my preference, so I don't know what it actually did
[11:54] <SuperMatt> I guess I could
[11:58] <BigRedS> it might be worth waiting around to see if anyone more patient came across it
[12:05] <SuperMatt> well I've managed to hack it to work
[12:05] <BigRedS> ln -s /usr/bin/chromium-browser /usr/bin/firefox-bin  ? :)
[12:07] <SuperMatt> hah
[12:07] <SuperMatt> no
[12:08] <SuperMatt> I removed chromium as you said and it fixed it
[12:08] <SuperMatt> but I really wanted things to open in ff4
[12:08] <SuperMatt> I had to play with it to get that working :P
[12:08] <BigRedS> ahhh
[12:24] <alejandra> czajkowski, ping
[12:26] <czajkowski> alejandra: pong
[12:27] <alejandra> czajkowski, hello! could you do me a fave and check planet for me?
[12:28] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[12:28] <alejandra> czajkowski, just published a fix, want to see if works for you :)
[12:29] <czajkowski> alejandra: ohhhhh :D
[12:29] <alejandra> czajkowski, :)
[12:29] <czajkowski> alejandra: you my dear rock! Planet is now readable again :D
[12:29] <czajkowski> yay
[12:29] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stabs*
[12:30] <alejandra> czajkowski, yay!
[12:30] <czajkowski> no more text over on chrommium :D
[12:30] <MooDoo> czajkowski: poke prod and stab :p
[12:30] <BigRedS> That's a nice contrast in sentiment there
[12:30] <davmor2> czajkowski: you know by stabs you mean *hugs* right?
[12:31] <MooDoo> davmor2: she doesn't do hugs so shhhhhhhh
[12:31] <czajkowski> alejandra: nicely done! Thanks
[12:31] <alejandra> czajkowski: happy it worked, looked awful!!
[12:31] <davmor2> MooDoo: good day me old mukka
[12:31] <AlanBell> yay \o/
[12:32] <MooDoo> davmor2: hello matey.
[12:32] <AlanBell> alejandra: what was the problem with it?
[12:32] <czajkowski> alejandra: yes just a tad :)
[12:32] <czajkowski> alejandra: did you have a good Christmas?
[12:32] <alejandra> czajkowski, altho there is the matter of a bunch of girls wrestling a pig to the floor... buy hey!
[12:33] <popey> good old jdub
[12:33] <MooDoo> i hate that photo....
[12:33] <alejandra> czajkowski, yes brilliant, too much food and booze... but got away to a nice place in Wales for a while too, which was nice. Did you have a brilliant time? Was your evil journey back justified? :)
[12:34] <popey> MooDoo: I'd never seen it before
[12:34] <popey> MooDoo: why?
[12:34] <czajkowski> alejandra: there is still some posts going outside past the border, but not sure if that's their post being too wide ? like Fabien Tassin post and Martin Pitt posts there today as an example
[12:34] <MooDoo> popey: i just get drawn to the poor pigs face lol
[12:34] <alejandra> AllanBell: Was a line of code... let me check for you and can give you exact details... one sec
[12:34] <czajkowski> alejandra: it was indeed Wales is soooo nice!
[12:36] <j0nr> hello!
[12:36] <j0nr> Happy new year all
[12:38] <screen-x> good to hear some positive comments about Wales :)
[12:39] <alejandra> AlanBell: It turns out the problem was caused by text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; Take out this line and the problem will be fixed. Basically, the optimisation causes a miscalculation on the font width/kerning on sizes <20px
[12:39] <AlanBell> is that specific to the Ubuntu font?
[12:40] <alejandra> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/text-rendering
[12:43] <czajkowski> alejandra: http://twitpic.com/3n89dq/full
[12:44] <alejandra> czajkowski, thanks, will check that out...
[12:44] <terran> Speaking of Ubuntu font, check out the font on the signs at the train station in Kings Langley http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs677.snc4/61750_442205016949_785146949_5060446_5959572_n.jpg
[12:44] <alejandra> czajkowski, saw one of the graphics also expands beyond the bubble...
[12:45] <alejandra> AlanBell, not sure if just Ubuntu font...
[12:45] <czajkowski> alejandra: aye
[12:45] <czajkowski> alejandra: but the main thing, the font being fixed is great.
[12:46] <alejandra> czajkowski, i know, hooray!
[12:46] <czajkowski> :)
[12:46] <alejandra> czajkowski, AlanBell: off to lunch, will ask more and let you guys know about those bits
[12:46] <czajkowski> alejandra: Thank you
[12:47] <alejandra> czajkowski, no problem! :)
[12:55] <daubers> screen-x: Talking of Wales, it's more than likely that the missus and me will be over that way in the first weekend in february. Since we have to pass Cardiff both there and back, could pop in and say hello
[12:56] <screen-x> daubers: cool :)
[12:56] <screen-x> do you know whenish?
[12:57] <screen-x> we are in Cardiff that weekend..
[12:57] <daubers> It'll be the weekend of 5/6th feb. Idea of staying in a hotel (probably in Swansea) Saturday night and then coming back this way sometime Sunday. Supposedly meeting Swansea peeps Saturday afternoon
[12:58] <czajkowski> cardiff is so pretty, home of torchwood, though i keep meaning to go there and be sober to see more of the place
[12:58] <popey> isnt that fosdem weekend?
[12:58] <czajkowski> yes
[12:58] <czajkowski> popey: you going ?
[12:58] <popey> dunno
[12:58] <screen-x> daubers: Sunday afternon/eve would be good
[12:59] <daubers> screen-x: Cool, I'll let my calender (Kat) know, and she'll prod me to sort something out a bit closer to the time :)
[13:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: Captain Jack isn't real, he doesn't abide in a fountain in Cardiff honest ;)
[13:02] <AlanBell> davmor2: next you will be saying that the prezzies didn't really come from Santa
[13:04] <davmor2> AlanBell: Oh no Santa's real :)
[13:05] <czajkowski> davmor2: there is only one reason I watched strictly come dancing christmas special was to see him dance!
[13:05] <czajkowski> oh my :D
[13:06] <davmor2> czajkowski: pervert ;)
[13:06] <davmor2> and then admitting it publically :D
[13:07]  * Dave2 realizes which channel this is, deletes what he was going to say.
[13:08] <davmor2> Dave2: I should thinks so this isn't the LR channel you know
[13:08]  * MooDoo watches SCD but only coz he watches his new future wife on it :)
[13:09] <Pendulum> MooDoo: who is your future wife?
[13:09] <MooDoo> Pendulum: Flavia ;)
[13:09] <Pendulum> heh
[13:09] <popey> MooDoo: the coffee?
[13:09] <AlanBell> one of our friends used to be Anton's regular dance partner
[13:09] <davmor2> MooDoo: I'm awaiting the sound of the whack you're about to receive from your current wife
[13:10] <AlanBell> and good morning Pendulum
[13:10] <Pendulum> Hi AlanBell
[13:11] <Pendulum> I used to train with one of the former Strictly pros
[13:11] <Dave2> popey: that's what I was thinking too
[13:11] <Dave2> (Speaking of which, I'm about to fall asleep on the keyboard.)
[13:13] <czajkowski> davmor2: you're not in lrl to make the comment
[13:15] <brobostigon> afternoonings all.
[13:19] <BigRedS> afternoon!
[13:20] <brobostigon> afternoonings BigRedS
[13:22] <DJones> Hmmh, Dodgy news headline on el reg, Doctor who to marry Doctor Who's daughter
[13:22] <AlanBell> so does this mean that on upgrade to Natty OpenOffice.org will be uninstalled and LibreOffice will be installed? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-January/032298.html
[13:23] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I thougt that was the plan
[13:24] <AlanBell> I thought the original plan was to have both in the repos and LO would be default for new installs
[13:25] <AlanBell> this means, I think, that Oracle OpenOffice.org won't be available at all on Ubuntu
[13:27] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you free tonight to do some work for the april event ?
[13:27] <popey> april event
[13:27] <popey> ?
[13:28] <AlanBell> sure czajkowski
[13:29] <czajkowski> popey: aye teacher event
[13:29] <czajkowski> Jan - April I am fully booked with events!
[13:29] <andylockran> AlanBell: looks like it
[13:29] <BigRedS> When you speak of 64-bit vs 32-bit, you're talking about what? the bitness? That sounds wrong, and 'width' sounds a bit overly-literal, to the point of innacuracy
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: cpu architecture :)
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> bus width maybe.. instruction word length
[13:30] <popey> data word length
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> or that
[13:30] <BigRedS> the sentence is "the problem is not with the <bitness?> of the system""
[13:30] <czajkowski> AlanBell: great what time suits?
[13:31] <BigRedS> mmm, data word length works
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> Time suits.. that's what the Doctor wears ;)
[13:31]  * popey fills in an invoice
[13:31] <BigRedS> actually, maybe it doesn't :)
[13:31] <czajkowski> AlanBell: what days next week are you going to BETT ?
[13:31] <czajkowski> also is anyone in here going to BETT ?
[13:31] <czajkowski> we can have a mini meet up
[13:32] <czajkowski> :D
[13:32] <BigRedS> is that the educashun computer thingywotsit?
[13:32] <BigRedS> today is not a wordy day for me
[13:32] <czajkowski> BigRedS: in English, Yes
[13:32] <czajkowski> http://www.bettshow.com/bett11/website/Home.aspx?refer=1
[13:32] <AlanBell> czajkowski: after 8 should be fine for tonight, or maybe earlier if kids are behaving
[13:32]  * brobostigon looks up BETT
[13:32] <czajkowski> AlanBell: don't get off the train till 7:30 so after 8 is good for me
[13:33]  * czajkowski needs to buy a car soon before she cracks up 
[13:33] <BigRedS> I might be in London for some of it, but not at the conference itself
[13:33] <czajkowski> train ticket went up :s
[13:33] <AlanBell> I am going on Thursday 13th (with a little speaking part)
[13:33]  * popey tickles AlanBells little speaking part
[13:33]  * popey puts it in a circus
[13:33] <popey>  /nick dave2
[13:33] <AlanBell> oi, that tickles
[13:34] <Dave2> :o
[13:34] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I might go up another day too, which would be best?
[13:39] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I've no idea never been. we're not taking a stand either
[13:39] <AlanBell> oh, no stand, I thought there was one
[13:40] <AlanBell> It is quite a busy event, or has been in the past
[13:40] <czajkowski> AlanBell: we decided against it
[13:40] <czajkowski> Mark is there I think on the Friday but in london on the wednesday.
[13:41] <AlanBell> totally understand that, they are fearsomely expensive
[13:46] <czajkowski> AlanBell: on the phone to Anne
[14:07] <bigcalm> AlanBell: LOL
[14:11] <AlanBell> you have to wonder what it is that Oracle thought they were buying
[14:11] <czajkowski> I don't think even they know
[14:13] <daubers> AlanBell: Java was probably their main target, and the rest of Suns IP
[14:13] <daubers> Although they've managed to burn their bridges with Java really
[14:17] <directhex> daubers, it's about controlling the ecosystem. oracle customers have always been java users (e.g. jnitiator as the VM for oracle financials) - relying on sun was always a risk
[14:41]  * hoover 's playing with VirtualBox 4.0 ATM
[14:41] <hoover> I hope they don't fsck that up, too
[14:51] <dwatkins> I've been using vmware instead of virtualbox for a few weeks, and am impressed with the desktop integration of vmware
[14:52]  * daubers just uses kvm these days
[14:52]  * BigRedS hasn't used imaginary hardware for quite a while
[14:53] <dwatkins> I need to have multiple versions of server software available, and can't just keep them all running in case I need one, so virtual machines seem the best way.
[14:55] <BigRedS> Ah, I need to get all my multiple versions of server software down to not-that-many different versions...
[14:55] <daubers> I use it to test various upgrades before rolling them out to various servers :)
[14:56]  * awilkins looks and goes oooOOooooo at Vbox 4
[14:57] <awilkins> I'm suspicious ; is this new "reorganisation" an attempt to monetize it (more) by Oracle ....
[14:59] <dwatkins> Oracle is a business.... I imagine everything they do is to make money.
[14:59] <dwatkins> I did get a free t-shirt from them once, though.
[15:00] <shauno> vbox worries me, because it's far too easy to recommend to people (free & cross-platform), but I simply don't trust the current ownership
[15:01] <dwatkins> How about KVM, shauno?
[15:01] <shauno> that's a bit less cross-platform
[15:01] <dwatkins> true
[15:01] <BigRedS> dwatkins: and I was so proud of my free MS t-shirt...
[15:01] <dwatkins> I imagine vmware is also questionable in terms of their motives.
[15:02] <shauno> I think they're a bit more transparent.  they're obviously trying to monetise it, and we can see exactly where/how
[15:07] <gord> honestly, i don't get why everyone seems to think oracle are evil
[15:08] <dwatkins> gord: I don't, but I do know that their software can be very convuluted.
[15:09] <gord> well yeah if they start making the ex sun properties suck then the market will decide to not use them, no big deal
[15:11] <shauno> evil isn't my problem.  I mean.  I use a mac at home.  I'm down with evil.  It's unpredictable that worries me.
[15:38] <bennie> hey all
[15:43] <popey> hi bennie
[15:44] <bennie> hey popey
[15:44] <bennie> did you ever get a o2 jogler during the big rush to pick them up?
[15:44] <popey> i did
[15:45] <bennie> does it work with a stylus bu any chance?
[15:46] <popey> not tried
[15:46] <bigcalm> That an ipad magic wand thing?
[15:47] <bennie> hmm, i was thinking to trying to pick one up to use to write some notes up on the cheap.
[15:47] <bigcalm> Ug
[15:47] <bigcalm> You'd want to remove the metal stand then
[15:48] <bigcalm> Or you could do what I do and just use it as an alarm clock using the web app I wrote ;)
[15:48] <bennie> not a problem, just a pet project i just thought of.
[15:49] <Mez> Suggestions for Hosted Bug Tracker software?
[15:49] <BigRedS> as in, a bug tracker on somebody else's hardware?
[15:49] <bennie> ha, i already use three alarms. I had thought of retasking my old eee 701 with a touch screen addon, but that wouldn't be ideal.
[15:50] <Mez> BigRedS: as in a bug tracker we don't have to manage for security updates, etc etc. But is for us.
[15:50] <Mez> BigRedS: Think Google Apps stylee
[15:50] <BigRedS> yeah, that's what I was thinking. In that case, I've no idea.
[15:51] <BigRedS> I've just been helping a customer for whom 'hosted' means 'hosted on our server, by us'
[15:51] <BigRedS> I'd guess people on here would suggest Launchpad mostly, though :)
[15:52] <Mez> Yeah - LP is overkill.
[15:52] <gord> bennie, ... get a notepad and a pen
[15:53] <BigRedS> github has one in it's pay-for packaged, wonder if bitbucket or gitorious do same?
[15:53] <Mez> BigRedS: Fogbugz would be nice - but over-expensive for our needs.
[15:54] <BigRedS> Mez: google code is very google apps stylee :)
[15:54] <BigRedS> but, really, I shouldn't be suggesting these since I've never used them
[15:54] <bennie> gord: whilst sound advice, i was hoping to have something i could index. with my papers and load on to my kindel  not to worry
[15:55] <gord> bennie, a notebook also makes a pretty good kindle ;)
[15:57] <bigcalm> Did some serious reading time with the kindle last night
[15:57] <kazade> Can you still buy Jogglers? I looked a while back and couldn't find one..
[15:57] <screen-x> kazade: no
[15:57] <bigcalm> kazade: not from o2
[15:57] <bennie> gord, again true, but not for the number of books i carry around with me.
[16:00] <Mez> BigRedS: yeah - but not private.
[16:04] <andylockran> hwody
[16:04] <andylockran> ooh,
[16:04] <andylockran> bad spelling
[16:09] <AlanBell> wow, stroppy children are now deleting my programs on the Sky+ box as an act of revenge for being told off!
[16:10]  * DJones wonders at the stupidity of a business sending out a letter with "The purpose of this letter is to confirm your address and contact details, if you do _not_ receive it, please contact us to update your details"
[16:10] <bigcalm> AlanBell: time to set a pin on the box
[16:10] <AlanBell> bigcalm: there is a pin, I don't know what it is
[16:10] <davmor2> AlanBell: You obviously need to show them whose boss,  take away every eletrical gadget and no tv
[16:10] <bigcalm> Doh
[16:11] <DJones> AlanBell: Always used to be the last 4 digits of your sky card number
[16:11] <bigcalm> I keep disabling the pin on the v+ box, and it keeps reactivating itself. Silly 1234
[16:11] <AlanBell> yeah, it changed, I need to plug it in to a phone line and go through the recovery procedure
[16:11] <AlanBell> unless the kids do it first
[16:12] <bigcalm> Time to put them up for addoption
[16:12] <AlanBell> you can't sell them on ebay
[16:12] <bigcalm> Damn
[16:12] <BigRedS> Gumtree'll probably let you sell 'em there, though
[16:12] <AlanBell> don't think you can on etsy either, although you should
[16:12] <BigRedS> wont get the money you would've on ebay back in the day
[16:12] <seeker> How old are they?
[16:13] <AlanBell> 10,8,6
[16:14] <DJones> You might be able to sell them on craiglist
[16:15] <seeker> Tell them that if they don't behave, popey will come and get them
[16:16] <AlanBell> they have met popey, I don't think that will scare them much
[16:16] <czajkowski> AlanBell: your kids deleted stuff after being told off...... I'd remove the tv swifty and anything they got for xmas!
[16:16] <AlanBell> czajkowski is strict
[16:16] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that's probably what would have happened to me as a kid.
[16:16] <bigcalm> It's been a while so I can't remember - does getting a flu jab knock you about? Contemplating walking to the doctor's later
[16:17] <bigcalm> Pendulum: oh, that happened to me
[16:17] <seeker> bigcalm: I had an achy arm for a day or two
[16:17] <Pendulum> (of course my parents only get the US version of freeview anyway so there was no chance of us deleting stuff off the box ;) )
[16:17] <czajkowski> AlanBell: kids should not be allowed do that, it's just simple, and it's not that I'm strict, there is just no way my parents would tolerate me doing that
[16:17] <bigcalm> Had my bbc micro removed several times
[16:17] <Pendulum> czajkowski: +1
[16:17] <AlanBell> czajkowski: she is in trouble, certainly
[16:18] <czajkowski> AlanBell: if we mis behaved we lost out on something, which was usually horse riding so no way would we
[16:18] <brobostigon> bigcalm: :(
[16:18] <czajkowski> or I'd have to wash the car and hoover and not get money for doing it as punishment
[16:18] <bigcalm> brobostigon: I was addicted to it
[16:18] <AlanBell> just so funny the way she walked up and told me she had deleted the Wallace and Grommit I had recorded
[16:18] <brobostigon> bigcalm: it was good.
[16:18] <Pendulum> AlanBell: sounds like she's almost looking for the discipline
[16:19] <Pendulum> like, that's an attention-seeking thing
[16:19] <czajkowski> AlanBell: dear gods man! if that's not rubbing it in I don't know what is
[16:19] <seeker> AlanBell: Sounds like you've got a juvenile delinquent there
[16:19] <DJones> AlanBell: Sounds like a definate case of "Deleting the childrens tv/food/staying up" priviliges & replacing with a non-politically correct spanking
[16:20] <AlanBell> seeker: or the next George Washington
[16:20] <bigcalm> That was a myth
[16:20] <czajkowski> DJones: indeed
[16:20] <bigcalm> He didn't say it
[16:20] <bigcalm> Policatal spin by a news paper
[16:20] <AlanBell> no doubt
[16:21] <bigcalm> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_I_can_not_tell_a_lie
[16:25] <czajkowski> AlanBell: it's not that I'm strict, it's just that I'm more strict than you, but I suspect many people are :)
[16:25] <popey> wow
[16:26] <bigcalm> Heh, aww
[16:26] <popey> Thats "bed with no supper" territory where I come from
[16:26] <czajkowski> Pendulum: +1
[16:26] <AlanBell> interestingly enough she failed to actually delete it
[16:26] <czajkowski> dear tab completion please stop confusing me
[16:26] <czajkowski> AlanBell: NOT THE POINT!
[16:26] <AlanBell> she is having some time in her room to think about things
[16:26] <BigRedS> Ah, I'd have had something related as punishment normally. Can't quite think what here, perhaps just a ban on watching $popularShow for a bit
[16:26] <bigcalm> I would have got a damn good hiding as well
[16:27] <czajkowski> AlanBell: is that where her toys are
[16:27] <popey> AlanBell: does she have materials to construct a rope ladder?
[16:27] <MooDoo> Jimmy is only two but we've started using the "Naughty Step" :)
[16:27] <popey> yup, we use naughty stair too
[16:27] <popey> works well
[16:27] <popey> one minute for each year of their age
[16:28] <MooDoo> yes it's working for us, exept we can't help but laughing when he goes and sits on it himself lol
[16:28] <brobostigon> taking away my spectrum would have worked when i was young,
[16:28] <popey> heh
[16:28] <Pendulum> we were sent to the bathrooms for timeouts (obviously dangerous things were not out and were locked away from us)
[16:28]  * AlanBell is 35
[16:28]  * MooDoo is 38
[16:28]  * popey starts the clock
[16:28]  * popey doesn't expect to see AlanBell for another 35 mins
[16:28]  * bigcalm doesn't feel so young any more
[16:28] <AlanBell> :)
[16:29] <czajkowski> taking away my horse riding from me was enough to smack manners on me, plus we also have the church thing to put manners/scare us
[16:29] <seeker> popey: You've been watching supernanny?
[16:29] <popey> nope
[16:29] <popey> my wife is qualified
[16:30] <DJones> Pendulum: Hope the household had another bathroom, or some punishments could have been quite short in case of emergency
[16:30] <AlanBell> czajkowski: my lot seem to like church which is a bit of a disappointment
[16:30] <Pendulum> DJones: yep
[16:30] <popey> she teaches childcare
[16:30] <czajkowski> Charlotte Church doesn;t count AlanBell
[16:30] <seeker> popey: Ah, k
[16:30] <czajkowski> therealpopey is really nice
[16:30] <czajkowski> but kids do well to obey her :)
[16:30] <popey> why yes, yes she is nice :)
[16:30] <Pendulum> my parents would also one-by-one remove things from my room. down to including my furniture (other than bed). Once did get to the point where I was going into my parents to get clothes every day. Although that was for not keeping my room clean
[16:30] <AlanBell> things get difficult when a child is quite capable of going into a 3-4 hour raging tantrum
[16:31] <MooDoo> AlanBell: my son went tochurch the other day for the first time
[16:31] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I beg to differ, outside  in the garden, knock yerelf out there
[16:31] <popey> I'd be looking at the root cause of the rage
[16:31] <Pendulum> popey: I was about to say that
[16:31] <popey> and divert to other things
[16:31] <popey> "hey look, shiny!"
[16:32] <czajkowski> we also had the wooden spoon in our house
[16:32] <czajkowski> I could run fast!
[16:32] <MooDoo> czajkowski: scholl slippers in mine.
[16:33] <AlanBell> not my style
[16:33] <MooDoo> big wodden things
[16:33] <Pendulum> definitely got the garden punishment. Including in the snow
[16:33] <popey> yeah, I'm not a smacking type
[16:33] <AlanBell> garden has been used
[16:33] <AlanBell> "you will be sleeping with the chickens"
[16:33] <popey> with a hose?
[16:33] <bigcalm> If it was good enough for us then it's good enough for them...
[16:33] <DJones> Cupboard under the stairs?
[16:34] <MooDoo> DJones: doesn't that take you to narnia?
[16:34] <MooDoo> ah no wrong cupboard
[16:34] <DJones> MooDoo: Nah, thats the bedroom cupboard
[16:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: it may not be yours, but you need to find something and I turned out ok :) it was also not an every day thing, more waved about to scare the shit out of us, and there is no way I eould ever pull a tantrum for 2 hrs let alone 2 mins
[16:34]  * bigcalm gets distracted by his Tardis spinning
[16:34] <czajkowski> the sister used to fake dead for hours on the floor  and the parents would just walk oever
[16:34] <czajkowski> her
[16:34] <hippychick> i was thinking more harry potter...
[16:34] <bigcalm> Hehehe :D
[16:34] <DJones> Actually, cupboard under the stairs isn't a good idea when its got the electricity meter & fuses in it
[16:35] <MooDoo> czajkowski: my sister used to hold her breath
[16:36] <czajkowski> MooDoo: I tend to laugh at kids when they do that
[16:37] <MooDoo> czajkowski: yea we leave them to it, when they faint they naturally start to breath again
[16:38] <czajkowski> MooDoo: exactly but kids don't know that
[16:38] <AlanBell> MooDoo: at least that is a quiet form of protest
[16:38] <MooDoo> lol
[16:38] <czajkowski> AlanBell: do they behave at school ?
[16:38] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm at work, time for an experiment ;)
[16:38] <AlanBell> czajkowski: pretty much, yes
[16:39] <czajkowski> AlanBell: well that's not really good, manners for strangers... but not for ye
[16:40] <MooDoo> czajkowski: my son would be nice if we stopped him watching the wiggles or peppa pig :)
[16:40] <czajkowski> I do like peppa pig
[16:41] <czajkowski> or whats the one in the garden...
[16:41]  * TheOpenSourcerer believes in the birch and the strop.
[16:41] <MooDoo> in the night garden?
[16:41] <MooDoo> with the ninky nonk and pinky ponk?
[16:41] <MooDoo> iggle piggle and the whohars?
[16:41] <czajkowski> yes
[16:41] <czajkowski> I like that one
[16:41] <czajkowski> *cough* when I see it of course
[16:41] <seeker> I was smacked if I did something really wrong
[16:41] <MooDoo> czajkowski: it's nuts :D
[16:41] <seeker> Soon stopped me doing it
[16:42] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: what now ?
[16:42] <MooDoo> czajkowski: if you like that, and think it's strange, watch Yo Gabba Gabba!
[16:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Beating them to within an inch of being visible ;-)
[16:42] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i've got to be careful doing that, i'm 6'6 and jimmy is expected to be bigger than me one day ;)
[16:42]  * DJones checks MooDoo's ident to see if waffle has pinched the nick
[16:43]  * MooDoo looks around and whistles :D
[16:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ha MooDoo I'm sure my eldest son (10) will be significantly taller and stronger that I in a few years.
[16:43] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: what goes around comes around :D
[16:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - maybe I should be buying him beer instead then...
[16:44] <MooDoo> besides, when england beats ireland at the rugby i'll get my beatings from czajkowski :)
[16:44] <bigcalm> Haha
[16:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Me too.
[16:44] <bigcalm> When?
[16:44] <bigcalm> If?
[16:44] <popey> Someone I know does something I consider very scary.. verging on child abuse.
[16:45] <popey> He gets told if the kids have been bad during the day, when he gets home from work
[16:45] <popey> if they have, he yanks them from their beds and smacks them
[16:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - that's a bit old-school isn't it popey
[16:46] <popey> the kids will have no clue why as they dont relate punishment "now" to misdemeanor "then"
[16:46] <popey> yeah
[16:46] <popey> he's younger than me!
[16:46] <czajkowski> popey: bit bad alright, child has no context what  he's done to get that
[16:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> My Dad used to do that to us, but he's 83 and so has a decent excuse
[16:46] <AlanBell> not conducive to a quiet evening either
[16:46] <czajkowski> MooDoo: oi cheeky go look at the past stats for games won recently!
[16:46] <DJones> As somebody who doesn't have kids, but has dogs, that would seem useless, if the punishment isn't there & then, its two different things as far as the dog is concerned
[16:46] <popey> yeah
[16:46] <popey> hence "abuse"
[16:47]  * czajkowski is really looking forward to an Ubuntu evnet that doesn't have a talk/presenation/demo/geekery associated with it 
[16:47] <MooDoo> czajkowski: er er :)
[16:47] <popey> czajkowski: \o/
[16:47] <popey> there will be geekery
[16:47] <popey> people will be tweeting :)
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I was planning a short presentation on something tedious and boring.
[16:47] <czajkowski> popey: oh there will be but secodary to the match and drink and just casual chatting and putting face to names
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> (not)
[16:47] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I was planning a long presentation on something tedious and boring
[16:47] <czajkowski> wonder does the pub ave wifi...
[16:47] <czajkowski> popey: TheOpenSourcerer ye'll be both on ignore that day misters!
[16:48] <popey> when is it again?
[16:48] <czajkowski> you signed up for it
[16:48] <czajkowski> March 19th
[16:48] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
[16:48] <popey> ooo thats near paddy day
[16:49] <czajkowski> yes
[16:49] <popey> hmm, sophie has a ballet exam the next day
[16:49] <czajkowski> but ye don't have paddys day here!
[16:49] <popey> which means I will be "stay at home dad" on sunday
[16:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Not many peeps...
[16:49] <czajkowski> so that will be mine :D
[16:49] <popey> recovering
[16:49] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: no not yet and for some too close to commit to
[16:49] <shauno> everywhere has paddy's day.  any excuse is a good excuse :)
[16:49] <popey> added to calendar
[16:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have booked the day out from Mrs TheOpenSourcerer
[16:50] <popey> i have added to the shared calendar
[16:50] <popey> which in effect means I am going when/if I get approval
[16:51]  * MooDoo looks for clapham junction on the tube map
[16:51] <czajkowski> Free wifi in pub!
[16:51] <BigRedS> ooh. Clapham's down in teh wilderness
[16:51] <czajkowski> Clapham was picked due to good train access
[16:52] <BigRedS> I've always known the south to be mostly devoid of good public transport
[16:52] <popey> have we got room booked for the 19th?
[16:52] <BigRedS> but, thinking about it, that's a very london-centric view :)
[16:52] <MooDoo> czajkowski: got to get there from st pancras
[16:52] <shauno> this may possibly be the strangest turnout they've had for a game
[16:52] <popey> MooDoo: you coming out to play!?
[16:52] <MooDoo> popey: yes i am :D
[16:52] <popey> yay
[16:52] <MooDoo> got my pass and everything
[16:53] <czajkowski> popey: nope not a room booked just rang, but come early and grab tables or they may be opening the function room to book a table and platter
[16:53] <czajkowski> MooDoo: change from might be to are attending :D
[16:54] <czajkowski> shauno: I cant get home to watch the match and I want to meet more people, seems like a good way to combine both really
[16:54] <dutchie> wonder if i can be bothered to wander down from ox
[16:55] <BigRedS> I might well be there, assuming a complete indiference to rugby is permitted
[16:55] <BigRedS> I do like beer, though
[16:55] <czajkowski> dutchie: no reason not to
[16:55] <dutchie> actually, term will have finished
[16:55] <dutchie> so i will be in worceste
[16:55] <dutchie> r
[16:55] <czajkowski> BigRedS: of course, all about the beer chat food and just meeting people
[16:55] <popey> czajkowski: looking forward to it
[16:55] <czajkowski> :D
[16:55] <czajkowski> YES!
[16:55] <MooDoo> czajkowski: done!
[16:55] <czajkowski> I dont relaly mind the result!  but I do like to watch a game with folks! and something different :D
[16:56] <MooDoo> hmmm ubuntu or england top is now the decision ;)
[16:56] <BigRedS> Ah, I might end up having my birthday celebrations then, we shall see. This is the downside to outsourcing birthday celebration organisation...
[16:58] <dutchie> dunno if i can justify coming all the way from worcs just for an afternoon in the pub
[16:58] <dutchie> :(
[16:58] <BigRedS> dutchie: 'just' ?
[16:58] <dutchie> heh
[16:59] <MooDoo> dutchie: i'm coming from nottingham
[16:59] <dutchie> hmm
[16:59] <bigcalm> dutchie: I thought you'd abandoned WR?
[17:00] <dutchie> bigcalm: only in term time
[17:00] <dutchie> with 8 week terms, i spend more time here than in ox :)
[17:06] <kvarley> For somebody to run an application developed in ruby within ubuntu what packages do they need installed?
[17:06] <bigcalm> I wish all of my clients' server had sudo installed. Would make my life so much simpler
[17:09] <gord> kvarley, i would guess the "roby" package
[17:13] <daubers> !info ruby
[17:13] <BigRedS> kvarley: ruby, and particularly its frameworks, can be *very* picky about versions
[17:13] <popey> hahahahahaahahahahaahahahahah
[17:13] <popey> ruby
[17:13] <popey> on ubuntu
[17:14] <BigRedS> I don't think I've ever found anything that just happens to work with whatever version's in a repository
[17:14] <popey> http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=566
[17:14] <popey> read that
[17:14] <BigRedS> always ends up with something incredibly specific in /opt
[17:15] <BigRedS> popey: really, the 'on ubuntu' bit is immaterial. Most ruby stuff seems to only work on the developer's machine without daft amounts of hassle
[17:15] <popey> you get my point
[17:16] <BigRedS> i've farted about for ages on rpmish machines, again ending up just downloading the specific point-release of everything into /opt
[17:16] <BigRedS> but yea
[17:16] <BigRedS> h
[17:16] <BigRedS> (just didn't like the potential impression that it's ubuntu's fault, until you read the blog post)
[17:16] <gord> attempted to run some ruby stuff before, but always given up
[17:17]  * kvarley will stick to python/java, thanks anway
[17:17] <popey> java....
[17:17] <popey> hahahaha
[17:17] <popey> etc
[17:17] <BigRedS> haha
[17:17] <directhex> c#!
[17:18] <BigRedS> irritatingly, PHP seems the most fire-and-forget
[17:18] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: popey AlanBell ye going to http://digitalsurrey.co.uk/events/DigitalSurreyJanuaryDigitalSurreyEvents_000.php
[17:18] <BigRedS> apt-get install libapache2-php5 && give-to-customer
[17:18] <kvarley> I want to learn a c but can't find tutorials relating to ubuntu that run it natively
[17:18] <directhex> BigRedS, for all its flaws, php does a good job at cross-version compatibility
[17:19] <shauno> reminds me, I tried installing a diaspora node locally the other night.  what a faff that turned out to be
[17:19] <BigRedS> directhex: yeah, you can well see why it's so incredibly popular. And its flaws are receding. Especially flaws that admins need to be aware of
[17:19] <directhex> it's an inherently "bad" language, developed more by accident and beer than by design, but there are great things built with it
[17:21] <shauno> between ruby, redis, mongodb, and whatever other buzzwords it requires, it adds just overr 1Gb to a stock ubuntu-server install.  for a webapp :/
[17:21] <BigRedS> shauno: apt-get install buzzword-full ? :)
[17:22] <popey> czajkowski: hadn't planned to
[17:22] <shauno> when they start pulling in gtk as dependencies you start to wonder
[17:22] <BigRedS> gtk? whatever for?
[17:22] <czajkowski> gonna stick my name down on the list, tis fully booked :(
[17:23] <popey> yeah, i will too
[17:23] <shauno> BigRedS: I dread to think
[17:26] <shauno> appears mongodb uses xulrunner, which seems to be most the stranger dependencies.  pango, gtk, glade, x11 .. on a server
[17:30] <directhex> and people call mono bloated...
[17:36] <shauno> and here I thought the trend towards buying slices of clouds instead of expensive boxes would lead away from that
[17:36] <BigRedS> shauno: I'm pretty sure I've had mongodb installed without all that crap
[17:36] <BigRedS> i did it from the mongo repo, I don't know if that would satisfy the right dependencies, should do
[17:37] <BigRedS> not hard to modify the provides: if it does
[17:37] <BigRedS> n't
[17:38] <nigelb> AlanBell: Did you see http://theashes.spreadshirt.com/ ?
[17:38] <BigRedS> nigelb: haah!
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> ashes to ashes
[17:39] <nigelb> She actually did go to Australia.
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> any other sports trophies/cups with nicknames?
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> (create twitter account.. :))
[17:40] <shauno> this is via mongo's repo too
[17:40] <BigRedS> hmm, wonder what I did then
[17:42] <shauno> if it was something I was actually going to use, I'd probably go looking to see if it's possible to build xulrunner sans X
[17:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Yes.
[18:16] <bigcalm> How do you count the number of files in a dir?
[18:17] <dutchie> ls | wc -l
[18:18] <bigcalm> ta
[18:18] <bigcalm> ls -l
[18:18] <bigcalm> ls will use more than one column
[18:18] <dutchie> not if you pipe it
[18:19] <bigcalm> Oh yes :)
[18:59] <mgdm> popey: when you signed up to bit.ly pro, did it take a while to get back to you? Or did you get into the beta thing?
[19:01] <bigcalm> I wrote my own instead of signing up to another service
[19:01] <mgdm> I'm considering that too, now
[19:01] <bigcalm> I've partly written it
[19:01] <bigcalm> Care to collabirate?
[19:02] <bigcalm> Symfony 1.4 and Doctrine
[19:03] <mgdm> I know little about either, but I've been intending to learn
[19:03] <bigcalm> Cool, I'll add you to SVN if you're really interested
[19:32] <zleap> where does windows store files waiting to be copied to a cd-r
[19:32] <zleap> we have files that have already been burned but it keeps saying files waioting to be burned to cd
[19:32] <zleap> waiting
[19:33] <bigcalm> zleap: this is a linux channel, you should ask in ##windows
[19:36] <jacobw> http://refcards.com/
[19:36] <jacobw> ^ useful
[19:36] <zleap> sirry
[19:36] <zleap> sorry
[19:38] <daubers> Evening
[19:40] <kazade> evening daubers
[19:40] <daubers> Getting used to Unity is odd
[19:41] <kazade> that's because it sucks ;)
[19:41] <daubers> I find myself using workspaces a lot more often...
[19:41] <daubers> kazade: I actually prefer it to normal gnome now
[19:41] <kazade> you don't use dual monitors I assume ;)
[19:41] <daubers> Although being able to make the left hand bar a bit thinner would be nice
[19:41] <daubers> kazade: At work I do... but defo not running Alpha stuff there :)
[19:41] <kazade> I'm more interested in the work Elementary is doing
[19:42] <kazade> so far Canonical's response to concerns about the global menu is "la la la I can't hear you" :p
[19:42] <kazade> well, I guess technically they said they'd do "something"
[19:42] <kazade> for dual monitors
[19:43] <daubers> Oh, not seen much of that really
[19:44] <kazade> I follow (and attempt to contribute) on the Ayatana mailing list
[19:44] <daubers> Ahhhh... fair enough
[19:44] <kazade> I can't recall a single non-Canonical idea ever gain any traction, even if it's obviously superior
[19:45] <kazade> some guy listed really good arguments the other day why having the dock on the right (or at least the option) would be much more usable
[19:45] <daubers> I'm not very good at UI design stuff, so tend to leave that to people who might have a clue :) (i.e. not me)
[19:45] <daubers> I'd kinda assumed the dock would get some position options at some point
[19:45] <kazade> I don't think it will
[19:45] <kazade> like notify-osd
[19:46] <kazade> I'm putting my faith in Gnome shell and Elementary. Elementary actually seem to care about usability
[19:46] <daubers> I dunno, I imagine it will eventually. Obviously priority will be to make it work properly first
[19:46] <daubers> gnome shell was interesting, but was a bit of a pain to work with
[19:47] <daubers> When i toyed with it anyway
[19:47] <kazade> yeah, it seems to have improved a lot recently
[19:47] <brobostigon> i certainly find the workspace manegement easier and quicker to deal in gnome-shell.
[19:47] <kazade> Take a look at the elementary projects, like Postler, Marlin, WingPanel, Dexter...
[19:48] <kazade> they are really thinking about usability, while Canonical mess around with a non-discoverable global menu and moving window controls around (can you tell I'm losing faith?)
[19:49] <daubers> heh
[19:49] <brobostigon> kazade: do you have a linkto their site, my search for elementary projects has retuned everything but software releated subjects,
[19:49] <daubers> I intend to give unity a go for a release or two, see where it goes and then form a proper opinion whether it fits in my daily workflow
[19:49] <daubers> rather than base it on unfinished stuff :)
[19:50] <kazade> brobostigon, OMG!Ubuntu! tend to have the best coverage: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/postler-elementary%E2%80%99s-new-mail-client/
[19:50] <kazade> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/nautilus-elementary-is-dead-marlin-file-browser/
[19:50] <jacobw> i prefer the dock on left, because it is like the margin of page
[19:50] <kazade> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wingpanel-elementarys-slick-new-space-saving-panel/
[19:50] <brobostigon> kazade: i will subscribe to their rss.
[19:50] <mgdm> I dislike that website purely because of their name
[19:51] <kazade> brobostigon, main site: http://www.elementary-project.com/
[19:51] <jacobw> perhaps some people prefer the dock on left because it makes more sense to a mind used to reading left to right
[19:52] <brobostigon> kazade: thank you.
[19:53] <kazade> brobostigon, one final one: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/meet-dexter-elementarys-new-address-book-app/
[19:53] <brobostigon> kazade: thank you..
[19:55] <rox33> I took this 1 minute log: http://pastebin.com/zFege3eH     with the following command "echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/block_dump". What i am investigating is the constant HDD access noises, i think it is related to the jbd2 writes
[19:56] <kazade> right I'm off to write myself a CV, have a good evening all
[19:57] <rox33> I read it is related to ext4 but i dont know if access this frequent is normal or if I need the benefit of ext4 at the cost of that
[19:57] <AlexJ_> Hi
[19:58] <AlexJ_> I would like to add programs for load during startup, but add them in the command line.
[20:01] <SuperMatt> is there any way in unity to stop everything from opening maximised? (10.10)
[20:03] <kvarley> AlexJ_: The default tool "gnome-session-properties" is GUI based and can add most applications to the startup. Why do you want to add them from command line?
[20:04] <AlexJ_> kvarley: I find knowledge of the command line useful :)
[20:05] <kvarley> AlexJ_: I haven't tried this but this article explains how to do it on Ubuntu, not sure if it still works but it's worth a try. http://www.reviewsaurus.com/blogging-tips/statup-program-load-ubuntu-feisty-fawn/
[20:06] <AlexJ_> kvarley: thank you
[20:09] <AlanBell> czajkowski: things are running way behind schedule here
[20:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: like wise dont worry can just ring ya tomorrow
[20:10] <czajkowski> tis just to touch base over eventbrite stuff
[20:10] <czajkowski> not at all urgen
[20:10] <AlexJ_> I was just wondering, is there a booth at CES?
[20:10] <AlanBell> ok, great
[20:10] <AlexJ_> *Ubuntu booth*
[20:11] <AlanBell> CES is in America isn't it?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> 'tis
[20:11] <AlexJ_> I'm not sure
[20:11] <AlanBell> I shouldn't think there would be one
[20:11] <AlanBell> but there might well be OEMs showing off Ubuntu on devices
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> Las Vegas tends to be in the USA
[20:12] <AlexJ_> k
[20:12] <AlexJ_> is there any such thing as an open-source event?
[20:12] <popey> mgdm: yeah, a few days
[20:12] <AlexJ_> like ces, but for open source software
[20:12] <AlanBell> fosdem I guess
[20:13] <AlexJ_> fosdem?
[20:13] <popey> ooo, shallow grave on film4 tonight
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> AlexJ_: fosdem.
[20:13] <popey> http://fosdem.org/
[20:13] <popey> or
[20:13] <popey> http://google.com/
[20:14] <AlexJ_> popey: I was asking because I wanted to visit an Ubuntu event/booth :D
[20:15] <popey> we may have one this year at ..
[20:15] <popey> AlanBell: whats the linux expo called now?
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> oggcamp? 8-)
[20:15] <popey> hah
[20:15] <AlexJ_> :D
[20:15]  * AlexJ_ runs around the room, wants a ticket :p
[20:17] <popey> oggcamp is free :)
[20:17] <AlexJ_> :o
[20:17] <AlexJ_> :D
[20:17] <kvarley> popey: Is that the thing hosted in liverpool?
[20:17] <MartijnVdS> if people bother to host it again... ;)
[20:17] <popey> it was in liverpool last year
[20:17] <kvarley> popey =)
[20:17] <popey> highly unlikely it will be this year
[20:17] <AlexJ_> MartijnVdS: why, what happened last time?
[20:18] <AlexJ_> popey: aww, why not?
[20:18]  * AlexJ_ must have missed something
[20:18] <popey> AlexJ_: see http://oggcamp.org/
[20:18] <popey> it probably wont be in liverpool because only one of the 9 or so people organising it lives there
[20:19] <dutchie> aka "it will be in hampshire"
[20:19] <dutchie> (probably)
[20:19] <popey> :)
[20:19] <popey> maaaaybe
[20:20] <popey> or germany
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> Middle of Scotland.
[20:20] <dutchie> please don't have it in germany
[20:21] <AlexJ_> popey: are there any video coverages of last year?
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> I love how "middle of nowhere" on google maps shows the Isle of Wight ;)
[20:21] <popey> some, yes
[20:22] <jacobw> IoW is awesome
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: but, according to Google, "middle of nowhere" :)
[20:26] <nigelb> popey: Hey, will you have time to help with a user days session this cycle :)
[20:27] <ocean> hi guys. I recently bot a hp 64 bit laptop which uses ATI mobility readon HD 5470 graphics(switchable with intel HD GMA) and installed ubuntu 10.10 and the instalation was flawless. when i restarted i got a massage that the ATM/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics card is available. i installed the driver and on next restart the computer screen went blank. i had to reinstall ubuntu and since then i havent installed this driver. can anyone tell me which graphics
[20:27] <ocean>  could be this machine using without this driver. do i need this driver for the best perfomance? is there anyway to make this machine switchable between 2 cards as windows do?
[20:27] <czajkowski> Anyone going to FOSDEM please add your info to the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2011
[20:28] <popey> nigelb: if I can
[20:28] <nigelb> popey: want me to put you down as a probably instructor?
[20:28] <nigelb> *probable
[20:28] <ali1234> ocean: fglrx drivers are notoriously bad, sorry
[20:29] <popey> nigelb: depends what subject
[20:29] <maco> ocean: fglrx is the proprietary ati driver. there's also an open source one, simply called "ati". the open one should be able to handle 2D on any ati card and 3D on quite a decent chunk of them. fglrx does 3D on the remainder.
[20:29] <popey> nigelb: and when it is
[20:29] <ali1234> i've heard of those laptops that have switchable graphics to save power, never heard of a linux driver for them though
[20:29] <nigelb> popey: subject --> any user oriented subject, date --> 29th of jan weekend
[20:29] <ali1234> if your intel GMA is not GMA500 then the drivers for that are really good, probably better than ATI
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> intel++
[20:30] <ali1234> if it's GMA500 then you are screwed, cos that's only intel in name
[20:30] <jacobw> ATI suck
[20:30] <popey> nigelb: ok
[20:30] <ocean> maco, rhanks.which driver do u recomend? how do i know which driver is on my machine
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> for ATI? the free one
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> for nvidia? depends on what you want to do, but stick with the free one as long as possible
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> Intel? Only one choice :)
[20:31] <maco> ocean: if you look for LoadModule in /var/log/Xorg.0.log it should tell you what driver is in use
[20:31] <ali1234> keep the driver you have until you find something that doesn't work with it
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: exactly
[20:32] <nigelb> popey: talk to me or lyz when you're ready with a topic :-)
[20:42]  * awilkins is quietly relaxed after drinking 1/2 pint of pop-your-head-off 8.2% cider
[20:43] <czajkowski> awilkins: oh which one?
[20:43] <awilkins> Westons 1880
[20:59] <czajkowski> popey: thank you!
[20:59] <popey> np
[21:00] <popey> czajkowski: did you have an etherpad page with a list of uk events this year?
[21:01] <czajkowski> popey: aye
[21:01] <czajkowski> popey: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
[21:02] <popey> ta
[21:02] <czajkowski> np
[21:03]  * czajkowski goes back to watching V
[21:03] <Morganna> poodles, that is all
[21:04] <popey> poodles indeed!
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> oodles of poodles
[21:05] <AlexJ_> aah!, my menu has disappeared, http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/scaled/Xubuntu%2010.10/13.gif how can i get it back?
[21:08] <Yorvyk> AlexJ_, right click on the panel
[21:09] <AlexJ_> ok
[21:10] <Yorvyk> and then click things, the name of which I can't remember :)
[21:10] <Yorvyk> I'm just launch Xubuntu to see what to do and stalling for time :)
[21:12] <Yorvyk> AlexJ_, Add New Items
[21:13] <AlexJ_> Yorvyk: sorry, which 1 do i add?
[21:14] <Yorvyk> AlanBell, the last one. Xfce4 Menu
[21:14] <Yorvyk> I mean AlexJ_
[21:17] <AlexJ_> Yorvyk: thank you
[21:17] <ocean> hi guys, i am not able to connect to wifi with my hp laptop dv6-3150sa where its alright with the wired connection. enable wireless has been ticked. can any one help where to start
[21:18] <ocean> i use ubuntu 10.10
[21:18] <Yorvyk> AlexJ_, np
[22:16] <ocean> guys my ubuntu 10.10 (hp laptop) is not showing the wireless network to trying to connect to it. can any one help thanks
[22:17] <bigcalm> ocean: is wifi enabled?
[22:17] <bigcalm> Do you have any other wifi devices that are able to connect to the network?
[22:18] <bigcalm> Is the wifi network set to hide its SSID?
[22:18] <bigcalm> In a terminal, does the wifi interface show up with /sbin/ifconfig
[22:18] <bigcalm> ?
[22:19] <ocean> bigcalm, thanks for the reply. the blue white lcd is on and blue tooth icon has come up.i presume wireless network is switched on
[22:19] <brobostigon> ocean: and can you scan via commandline, "iwlist scan"
[22:20] <ocean> brobostigon, does it need sudo infront?
[22:20] <brobostigon> ocean: think so, yes.
[22:20] <zleap> anyone here in the chippenham area ?
[22:20] <bigcalm> Nope
[22:20] <zleap> k
[22:20] <bigcalm> ocean: no, you can run it as a user
[22:20] <bigcalm> zleap: I have no idea, my nope wasn't intended for you
[22:21] <zleap> i just realised that
[22:21] <zleap> its me not concentrating
[22:21] <ocean> bigcalm, brobostigon pls find the pastebin http://pastebin.ca/2039112
[22:22] <bigcalm> So it's found the card
[22:22] <brobostigon> ocean: do you see our wifi ap inthe scanned list, ?
[22:23] <ocean> brobostigon,  thats the output which it has given me. sorry  idon understand by wifi ap
[22:23] <bigcalm> Access Point I think
[22:24] <brobostigon> ocean: yes, access point, the device you connect to,
[22:24] <ocean> no, it is not showing any acees points.
[22:24] <AlanBell> ocean: try "sudo ifconfig wlan0 up"
[22:24] <AlanBell> then scan again
[22:25] <ocean> AlanBell, SIOCSIFFLAGS: Device or resource busy thats the output
[22:26] <AlanBell> ocean: try "dmsg|grep Radio"
[22:27]  * AlanBell expects to see something like iwl3945: Radio disabled by HW RF Kill switch
[22:27] <brobostigon> dmesg | grep radio
[22:27] <AlanBell> which means it is turned off in hardware somehow
[22:28] <ocean> AlanBell, brobostigon [   11.631146] Registered led device: rt2800pci-phy0::radio
[22:29] <ocean> i am using 64 bit, the 32 bit 10.10 is working fine on my older laptop :-(
[22:30] <AlanBell> ok, not that then
[22:30] <AlanBell> ocean: take a look at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613139
[22:31] <AlanBell> if you have the rt2800pci card then it seems others have been hitting issue with it
[22:32] <AlanBell> sounds like a real mess to me
[22:33] <AlanBell> incidentally when reading threads on the forum start at the end and work backwards, often the initial 'solution' is entirely the wrong thing to do
[22:35] <ocean> AlanBell, to be honest i don understand anything whats mentioned over there :-( , does it mean that i am going to have trouble with mobile broadband as well
[22:35] <AlanBell> no, just wifi
[22:36] <AlanBell> or any trouble you have with mobile broadband will be unrelated to the wifi issues
[22:38] <ocean> AlanBell, i was just asking about mobile broadband.would u mind just telling me whats the problem with this device and ubuntu?
[22:39] <AlanBell> bug 653593
[22:39] <AlanBell> ocean: sorry, what is the question relating to mobile broadband?
[22:40] <ocean> i was just querying if this doesnt work, the mobile BB could be affected as well?
[22:41] <AlanBell> mobile broadband is totally different to wifi
[22:41] <ocean> AlanBell, thanks. is there any simple fix for it for me to try?
[22:41] <ocean> i am am not skilled with commands
[22:43] <AlanBell> ocean: can you just do lspci and paste here just the one line relating to the wifi card, it will say something like "RaLink RT2800" or similar in it
[22:44] <ocean> AlanBell, RaLink RT3090 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe
[22:45] <AlanBell> ok, well you might want to subscribe to bug 653593 and click the "does this bug affect you" bit at the top
[22:47] <pr0ph3t> hi all
[22:47] <pr0ph3t> can somebody tell me if this patch file is ok or if the first part needs to be deleted or something please? http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=patch;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43;hp=b3c89998fae5a0aa447667a1b48256ac00d8b18c
[22:49] <pr0ph3t> please!
[22:50] <ali1234> you can't directly apply git diffs
[22:50] <ali1234> so that patch file won't apply
[22:50] <ali1234> so it's not OK
[22:50] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, thank you very much
[22:51] <pr0ph3t> I can not find the right file because I am not sure what I should be looking for
[22:52] <pr0ph3t> can you give me a little help please?
[22:52] <ali1234> you won't find "the right file" - you have to use git
[22:53] <pr0ph3t> This is the address where what I thought the patch was: http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43;hp=b3c89998fae5a0aa447667a1b48256ac00d8b18c#patch1
[22:54] <AlanBell> pr0ph3t: what are you trying to achieve?
[22:54] <ali1234> add that repository to your local git and then you can cherry pick the patch
[22:54] <pr0ph3t> I am following a guide to recompile the kernel in my ubuntu 10.10 64bit so to patch to include support for my in-built 3g modem
[22:55] <bigcalm> Can't it be added as a module?
[22:55] <ali1234> you still need to patch the kernel even if it is a module if the module author didn't include an out-of-tree makefile
[22:56] <bigcalm> Ah
[22:56] <ali1234> which vendors almost never do when dumping code
[22:56] <bigcalm> I left kernel building behind with gentoo many years ago ;)
[22:57]  * Nafallo built a kernel last time in December ;-)
[22:57] <pr0ph3t> I used to do it with slack and others
[22:57] <mgdm> I did LFS a few years ago
[22:57] <mgdm> that was an education ;)
[22:57] <pr0ph3t> but I do not know how to patch it or even what exactly a patch is
[22:57] <ali1234> there is pretty much no reason at all to compile your own kernel if you're not working on a new driver or platform
[22:57] <bigcalm> mgdm: did it age you?
[22:58] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: show me the guide
[22:58] <ali1234> and i will tell you how to do it properly :)
[22:58] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, http://www.question-defense.com/2010/09/26/how-to-recompile-your-ubuntu-10-10-kernel-for-patching-or-to-add-support-for-a-specific-device
[22:58] <pr0ph3t> thanks :)
[22:58] <ali1234> oh, so you don't have a specific guide for this hardware?
[22:59] <mgdm> bigcalm: ... let's just say that Qt didn't compile very quickly on a Celeron 600
[22:59] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, sadly not
[22:59] <bigcalm> Hehe
[22:59] <ali1234> i recommend in this case you don't follow that guide, use this guide instead: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
[23:00] <bigcalm> Yes, the days of leaving things to compile over night
[23:00] <ali1234> specifically, follow the "use git" step
[23:00] <ali1234> then build your own pristine kernel (ie identical to what ubuntu ships)
[23:00] <mgdm> bigcalm: aye - these days, I seriously CBA for anything that I don't care a heck of a lot about
[23:00] <ali1234> when you get that working i can assist you further
[23:00] <mgdm> bigcalm: which, these days, basically means PHP + exts
[23:00] <bigcalm> :D
[23:00] <ali1234> if you get stuck just ask, if i'm still awake i'll try to assist
[23:00] <popey> blimey
[23:00] <popey> windows 8 will support arm
[23:00] <pr0ph3t> oki, thanks sir
[23:00] <mgdm> popey: just reading that - not surprised
[23:01] <bigcalm> The embedders choice?
[23:01] <mgdm> well, Id' have been surprised this time last year, but with all the chat about ARM notebooks etc
[23:01] <popey> yeah
[23:01] <ali1234> "smartbooks"
[23:01] <ali1234> and tablets
[23:01] <ali1234> expect windows 8 to be a walled-garden, like everything else
[23:03] <gord> i keep hearing that windows is gonna start supporting arm, but that sounds crazy
[23:03] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: after you clone the ubuntu git make sure to check out the tag corresponding to your current kernel version
[23:03] <mgdm> Ooo, Jonathan Coulton on Spotify
[23:03] <gord> i mean, windows without all the x86 applications you use on it is essentially useless
[23:03] <ali1234> pr0ph3t: the advantage to using git here is that it will make it easier for you to keep in line with kernel updates, also the driver you want is stored in git so getting it will be easier
[23:04] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, ok I am working on it right now
[23:04] <mgdm> gord: I shudder to think what kind of insane emulation layer they might come up with ;)
[23:04] <ali1234> mgdm: .net
[23:04] <mgdm> .net isn't everything
[23:04] <AlanBell> gord: sounds like windows CE
[23:05] <ali1234> it's a VM, which is just a fancy name for an emulator
[23:05] <ali1234> it just happens to be an emulator for an architecture that doesn't physically exist...
[23:07] <gord> still no gingerbread for gord :(
[23:08] <czajkowski> gord: bake some ?
[23:08] <gord> czajkowski, android ;)
[23:08] <czajkowski> gord: context is a wonderful thing
[23:08] <czajkowski> :)
[23:32] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, if you're still there I cloned it
[23:32] <ali1234> 1 sec
[23:33] <ali1234> ok...
[23:33] <pr0ph3t> ali1234, am I looking at importing a patch now?
[23:34] <ali1234> better to make sure you can actually build the kernel first
[23:34] <ali1234> enter the git repo and do "git checkout -b mybranch Ubuntu-2.6.35-24.42"
[23:35] <pr0ph3t> sure
[23:35] <ali1234> then continue following the kernel building guide and make sure you can get a deb file with the kernel
[23:35] <pr0ph3t> switched to a new branch
[23:36] <ali1234> hmm that git patch you're looking at... it might be in mainline already
[23:36] <brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
[23:36] <pr0ph3t> I did the fakeroot debian/rules clean with no errors
[23:37] <pr0ph3t> and it isn't
[23:37] <pr0ph3t> I even tried natty but no luck
[23:37] <pr0ph3t> it's three months old I think that patch?
[23:38] <ali1234> actually it is
[23:38] <ali1234> it's even in the current ubuntu kernel
[23:38] <ali1234> and i can prove it
[23:38] <ali1234> in your ubuntu kernel repo type "git show 67d9228"
[23:39] <ali1234> hmm
[23:39] <pr0ph3t> not found
[23:39] <ali1234> why do i have it...
[23:40] <pr0ph3t> says: fatal: ambiguous argument '67d9228': unknown revision or path not in the working
[23:40] <pr0ph3t> Use '--' to separate paths from revisions
[23:41] <ali1234> well, ok, carry on building the kernel for now, i'll look into this