| ScottL | ailo, the ubuntustudio-dev group is restricted to those familiar with code, otherwise some fairly dramatic, although unintentional, issues might result :P | 00:56 |
|---|---|---|
| ailo | ScottL: No problem. Just trying to figure out how things are connected. Who does what, what needs to be done. Is there a wishlist. That sort of thing. | 01:02 |
| ScottL | ailo, i'm glad you feel that way :) | 01:14 |
| ScottL | as far as a wishlist, this would be the closest thing, i think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning | 01:14 |
| ScottL | to be honest, it seems that most people are not involved consistently enough to do it collaboratively, so i keep a running list of things i would like to accomplish | 01:15 |
| ScottL | i wish it were otherwise | 01:15 |
| holstein | ScottL: maybe we could get a few of use commited | 01:15 |
| holstein | and do something more formal | 01:16 |
| holstein | ailo and i were talking about a wiki page | 01:16 |
| holstein | with tasks | 01:16 |
| ScottL | holstein, that would be awesome | 01:16 |
| holstein | and we assign ourselves | 01:16 |
| ScottL | we used to have something similar, hold one | 01:16 |
| holstein | i was talking about maybe we could get something like that going on by february | 01:16 |
| ScottL | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/LucidTaskList | 01:16 |
| ailo | At least it would be great if all participants, even tester can check what needs testing, what needs solving and so on. | 01:17 |
| ScottL | yes it would :) | 01:17 |
| ScottL | i had thought about making a task-list page, one that would be continually updated for each release instead of a new one for each release | 01:18 |
| ScottL | but it doesn't have to be that way, whatever people want and whatever works | 01:18 |
| holstein | ScottL: whatever you think is more convinient | 01:19 |
| ailo | We could start by just one for Natty, and if it works to keep the same for later releases, just keep it. | 01:19 |
| holstein | i like it | 01:20 |
| ailo | I'm a little concerned with some out of date pages here and there, on launchpad, and maybe on the wiki too | 01:21 |
| ailo | When people look for info, it can get a little confusing | 01:21 |
| holstein | ailo: sounds like a good item for that wiki we're proposing | 01:23 |
| holstein | maybe just a search and locate the pages project | 01:24 |
| holstein | thats something i could chew through | 01:24 |
| ailo | I think there should be a link to a development, open to anyone on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/, that doesn't need to conflict with the dev teams work. | 01:25 |
| ScottL | updating the out-of-date pages, or deprecating them, would be a good task :) | 01:25 |
| ailo | That would be a good starting point to collect links to other pages too | 01:26 |
| ScottL | ailo, the general feeling is that all pages on wiki.ubuntu.com should be for developing ubuntu studio and help.ubuntu.com should be for using ubuntu studio | 01:26 |
| holstein | OH | 01:27 |
| ScottL | that's just a large and generalized overview of the documentation scheme | 01:27 |
| holstein | thats news to me | 01:27 |
| holstein | makes sense though | 01:27 |
| ScottL | there is some cross pollination between the two, but i think it would be helpful going forward to try to adhere to that convention | 01:27 |
| ailo | We need some standard items to work on as well, I think, but perhaps this could be outlined in a meeting later on. I'm thinking we need a list of things to test, and that sort of thing. | 01:29 |
| holstein | i like the idea here | 01:30 |
| ScottL | some of the things to test would be based on the work flows beings developed, but also there are other, more system-level things as well | 01:30 |
| holstein | a non-dev development wiki page | 01:30 |
| holstein | someting i can just reference real quick | 01:30 |
| holstein | drop links to wiki pages in | 01:30 |
| holstein | ping you guys to look at them | 01:30 |
| holstein | things that i think need to be tested | 01:30 |
| holstein | OR that i need confirmed | 01:30 |
| ailo | It's generally the oversight I feel is missing, that probably the dev guys have, but it's not communicating. | 01:31 |
| holstein | i think the more we do though | 01:32 |
| holstein | to be organized | 01:32 |
| holstein | the better | 01:32 |
| ailo | I agree | 01:32 |
| holstein | if we have links to present with black and white print of what we need | 01:32 |
| holstein | drop that in #moto or whatever | 01:32 |
| ScottL | i had tried to get a few guys to form a testing group to develop some of these tests | 01:33 |
| ScottL | just oversight stuff like: does jack start, does ardour start, does gimp start, etc | 01:33 |
| holstein | its challenging | 01:33 |
| holstein | with JACK | 01:33 |
| ScottL | making some simple recordings, use a synth to make noise (or music) | 01:34 |
| holstein | that can be SO hardware dependant | 01:34 |
| ailo | Is UbuntuStudio-controls still outdated? | 01:34 |
| holstein | my firewire interface wont start with JACK in 10.10 | 01:34 |
| holstein | but that doesnt make JACK broken | 01:34 |
| ailo | I'd say these are issues to put in the wiki | 01:34 |
| holstein | and im just getting to where i think i could trouble-shoot and get to the bottom of some of that | 01:35 |
| ailo | I think many users are accustomed to doing fixes themselves on a lot of releases. They won't do a bug report even. | 01:40 |
| holstein | bug reports are still challening for me | 01:40 |
| holstein | and its a lot of work too | 01:40 |
| holstein | can be | 01:41 |
| ScottL | ailo, yes, ubuntustudio-controls is outdated | 01:41 |
| holstein | and, like my issue | 01:41 |
| holstein | is that a bug? | 01:41 |
| holstein | JACK works | 01:41 |
| ScottL | i can't find anybody with python experience who is willing to work on it | 01:41 |
| holstein | just not with my firewire interface | 01:41 |
| ailo | ScottL: I know a little python. | 01:41 |
| holstein | i filed a bug report though | 01:41 |
| ScottL | holstein, i don't think it's that big of deal to test jack, we need someone with pci card and another with firewire to test it using their normal setup | 01:42 |
| ailo | I'm guessing it's basically just a script, but it needs su permission to edit files. | 01:42 |
| ScottL | they should be familiar enough with their hardware to understand what it should take to get it started, if it doesn't start then there is a problem | 01:42 |
| ScottL | ailo, yes, basically, but there is other stuff | 01:42 |
| holstein | sure, but how do we get it fixed ? | 01:42 |
| ScottL | like checking to see if the limits.conf file (or whatever) already has rtprio, et al, already there and change that line instead of adding a new one | 01:43 |
| holstein | i dont think its OK to ship it out of the box with what would be needed | 01:43 |
| holstein | OR that was the excuse i heard that made sense | 01:43 |
| holstein | and, how much of a priority should firewire devices be? | 01:44 |
| ailo | ScottL: jack is using a different file for that now. It's in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf | 01:44 |
| ScottL | holstein, in a general sense, if testing results in a problem, then report it in a bug or to the -dev team, and we work on a fix before release | 01:44 |
| holstein | it doesnt say anywhere on the site 'firewire support out of the box' | 01:44 |
| ScottL | holstein, but i understand your point about firewire devices | 01:44 |
| holstein | ive seen the bugs for that though | 01:44 |
| ScottL | and i concede the point | 01:44 |
| holstein | since hardy and before | 01:45 |
| ailo | Ubuntustudio control should not be needed anymore, unless one wants to toggle rt | 01:45 |
| holstein | and when i have made noise, i heard a security concern, which i understand | 01:45 |
| ScottL | i would like to perhaps have a ubuntu studio-dev ppa with a -rt kernel in it and have a package that updates the sources.list to include that ppa | 01:45 |
| holstein | ScottL: i like that | 01:45 |
| ScottL | ailo, i think it also enable the raw1394 for video/firewire | 01:45 |
| ailo | ScottL: right, but that has changed too now. | 01:46 |
| ailo | Because of the new firewire stack | 01:46 |
| ScottL | holstein, let's be honest, laptops and firewire cards are probably half (if not more) of the users now and probably will continue to be a substantial percentage for the future | 01:46 |
| holstein | yeah, might need to search aroudn and find all the changes | 01:46 |
| holstein | get them on that wiki too | 01:46 |
| holstein | so we know what is what | 01:46 |
| ScottL | ailo, oh, i didn't know that | 01:46 |
| holstein | ScottL: i think its a good idea for it to be a priority IF the focus is going to be pro-audio out of the box | 01:47 |
| ailo | I put the question to Asmo on the -dev mail list if he got firewire working out of the box on Natty. On Maverick it won't. | 01:47 |
| ailo | Installing jackd already takes care of rt | 01:48 |
| holstein | ScottL ailo , i think this has been a productive meeting so far :) | 01:48 |
| ailo | ScottL: I think it has been proved that there is a gap between user and dev in this case. Testing is a way to redeem that. I think Abogani put it out there first, and that has made a few of us users to get involved. | 01:51 |
| ailo | We don't need to be so many, but we need all kinds | 01:52 |
| ailo | To do testing | 01:52 |
| ailo | And we need to be able to see the results, and then act on them | 01:52 |
| ScottL | ailo, "installing jack takes care of rt"...i think yes and no, it installs a preset in the audio.conf file but what if someone wants to change the memlock from unlimited? | 01:54 |
| ScottL | holstein, i agree, this has been productive :) | 01:54 |
| ScottL | ailo, very true, we had considered developing a matrix of what types of test and testers we would like (e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd using firewire, etc) | 01:55 |
| ailo | Ubuntustudio-control is a way for a normal user to get access to rt control, without having to know how it works. I think jackd's default settings already take are of that. For a new user, they don't even know what rt is. | 01:57 |
| ailo | I think abstracting things is a big discussion. On Linux we like to be able to do what we want | 01:58 |
| ailo | Gui-tools do not always let you do that, but if this one has legitimity, why not? | 01:58 |
| ailo | ScottL: Anyway, I like "e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd...". We need that. | 02:00 |
| ailo | ScottL: I'll have a look at Ubuntustudio controls. I have knowledge enough to adjust it. The base code is already there. One only needs to tweak it. If needed I can do something with it. Otherwise, I would take it off the repo. | 02:02 |
| ScottL | ailo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16 | 02:11 |
| ScottL | about 1/2 down the first screen it mentions ubuntustudio-controls update | 02:12 |
| ScottL | ailo, i don't know that we have considered all the uses for -controls | 02:14 |
| ailo | ScottL: Ok, so there are some big plans for that app, then :) | 02:14 |
| ailo | Sort of like a US wizard | 02:14 |
| ScottL | not necessarily, just floating ideas, but no one seemed to really get into it | 02:14 |
| ScottL | but you are right, if nothing is going to be done with it (e.g. fix it or improve it), then it should be removed | 02:15 |
| holstein | +1 on remove | 02:16 |
| ScottL | holstein had mentioned included the -rt kernel on the disc like another distro had done along with instructions how to install it | 02:16 |
| ScottL | this might be translated into something in -controls for the -rt kernel ppa | 02:16 |
| ScottL | for an example | 02:16 |
| holstein | well, thats true | 02:17 |
| holstein | and a good ide | 02:17 |
| holstein | a | 02:17 |
| holstein | hmmm | 02:17 |
| ScottL | lol | 02:17 |
| ailo | I'm interested in that. | 02:17 |
| ailo | I like the idea of some sort of wizard, that would help new users to get comfortable fast. | 02:18 |
| ScottL | stochastic made another suggestion that i had toyed with before: giving new users links to help via shortcuts on the desktop | 02:18 |
| ScottL | i would even like to include a 'release notes' also on the disc that installs and is in the menu | 02:18 |
| * ScottL stole that from debian lxde | 02:18 | |
| holstein | i like all of this | 02:19 |
| holstein | i feel like, if you're using ubuntustudio, and dont get on the irc | 02:19 |
| holstein | you're just screwed | 02:19 |
| holstein | OR i was | 02:20 |
| ScottL | when i have built a machine for friends and installed ubuntu studio i do a few things for them | 02:20 |
| holstein | i used to fire up rosegarden and wonder why it wasnt doing anything | 02:20 |
| holstein | or wonder what those JACK errors were when i would click on something | 02:20 |
| ScottL | i add firefox icons on the desktop for help.ubuntu.com, ubuntu forums, wiki.ubuntu.com, a video i made for starting and using jack, ardour, rakarrack | 02:20 |
| ailo | Well, we could decide on a deadline when it needs to be finished. I can take it on. I'm sure there lot's of people interested in participating. | 02:20 |
| ScottL | and setup xchat to get into #ubuntustudio on IRC | 02:20 |
| holstein | ScottL: NICE | 02:21 |
| holstein | instead of #ubuntu | 02:21 |
| ScottL | i would love to include instruction videos (or links to them) on the disc | 02:21 |
| holstein | ScottL: we have missed natty right? | 02:21 |
| holstein | natty is in freeze for us too right? | 02:21 |
| ScottL | but all these ideas get put on the backburner because i'm struggling to things straight just for releases | 02:21 |
| holstein | or does that include us too? | 02:22 |
| ScottL | holstein, no, it shouldn't be yet i don't think | 02:22 |
| ScottL | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule | 02:22 |
| ScottL | release freeze is at the end of february, i think that would be what we need to worry about | 02:22 |
| ScottL | BUT, if we are making new packages, then yes we would have troubles, REVU doesn't move fast :( | 02:23 |
| ScottL | we should probably organize it all and truly understand what we want to incorporate | 02:23 |
| ScottL | then make a simple package for just one part of what we want done | 02:23 |
| ScottL | once it's in the repos, then updating it to include other aspects is much, much easier | 02:24 |
| ailo | Well, I'm still waiting to hear whether firewire does work out of the box. If it does, US-controls won't be needed anyway, and we can let that one wait until the next release. | 02:24 |
| holstein | i dont think we need to make new packages | 02:24 |
| holstein | for now | 02:24 |
| holstein | for natty | 02:24 |
| holstein | some of these little changes would be great though | 02:24 |
| holstein | and a menu item or 2 | 02:25 |
| ScottL | there were still things that i had planned for natty: updating menu, new artwork, new plymouth theme | 02:25 |
| holstein | ScottL: did you see that email from falk? | 02:25 |
| holstein | about his menu? | 02:25 |
| holstein | i liked that too | 02:25 |
| ScottL | yes holstein, but there are things going on in debian that might preclude our efforts | 02:25 |
| holstein | AH | 02:26 |
| ScottL | they are considering the same thing, but not in the hackneyed way we are currently doing it | 02:26 |
| ailo | About plymouth, what's the problem other than that it is not syncing with boot (so fast these days) | 02:26 |
| ScottL | they want to create new categories and including these categories in the desktop file | 02:26 |
| ScottL | this way it's all automatic and according to convention | 02:26 |
| ailo | Categorizing is hard to do on a general level | 02:27 |
| holstein | ScottL: i like that to | 02:27 |
| holstein | o | 02:27 |
| holstein | whats the ETA on that? | 02:27 |
| ScottL | ailo, well, the graphics are crappy :-) i can say that becuase i did them (plymouth) | 02:27 |
| ScottL | seriously, i realized that we were switching, nobody had a plymouth theme, so i spent a frantic weekend learning plymouth, and made that theme | 02:28 |
| holstein | i dont think i have the US plymouth theme | 02:28 |
| ailo | Wow, nice work. It impressed my friends, when I showed them US. | 02:28 |
| holstein | maybe i broke it | 02:28 |
| ScottL | cory's new plymouth theme (that needs some tweaks): http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/new-plymouth-theme.png | 02:29 |
| ScottL | ignore the fact that the circle-like thing is to the left of the coF | 02:29 |
| ailo | The plymouth theme doesn't really have any reason to exist in the future, I think, since boots are so fast. Better to use a simple image. | 02:29 |
| ScottL | if should be over the CoF and spinning in a circle | 02:29 |
| holstein | yeah, saw that, and i liked it | 02:29 |
| holstein | slcik | 02:30 |
| holstein | slick* | 02:30 |
| ScottL | i would also like to remove the progress bar because of what ailo said | 02:30 |
| ailo | slick is the word | 02:30 |
| * ScottL is going to take a shower | 02:31 | |
| holstein | ScottL: laterx | 02:31 |
| holstein | ailo: i like where this is going | 02:31 |
| ailo | holstein: me too. | 02:32 |
| ScottL | ailo, and holstein, agreed, this is asesome progress, i'm very glad that both of you are here :) | 03:02 |
| holstein | w00t | 03:03 |
| ScottL | i'll try to add these ideas to the release planning page for natty+1 | 03:04 |
| ScottL | just to get them down on "paper" | 03:04 |
| * abogani waves | 09:10 | |
| abogani | Which will be the default music player in Natty? banshee? | 09:10 |
| ailo | abogani: I heard it would be, but so far not.. | 09:13 |
| ailo | Though, rythmbox has ben removed from the volume indicator menu | 09:14 |
| abogani | ailo: Thanks! | 09:15 |
| jussi | ScottL: ping me when you are around - Id like to pass the ML's completely over to you | 10:50 |
| scott-work | jussi: is this something that needs to be done while i am at work? | 13:49 |
| scott-work | s/work/home? | 13:49 |
| scott-work | supercollider may be hitting debian soon :) | 14:00 |
| scott-work | looks like a patch went from debian multimedia upstream and it is being incorporated into the their upcoming release | 14:01 |
| holstein | scott-work: ScottL if you get a minute, feel free to mark that new bug i filed 'wishlist' as well | 17:55 |
| holstein | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/697774 | 17:55 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 697774 in Ubuntu Studio "cant install ubuntustudio from USB stick" [Undecided,New] | 17:55 |
| holstein | i'll go ahead and assigne myself | 17:55 |
| holstein | bbl... | 17:55 |
| falktx | hehe, holstein, that will only work if US was a live-cd/dvd | 17:55 |
| holstein | falktx: i already filed that bug :) | 17:56 |
| holstein | and marked it wishlist | 17:56 |
| holstein | just trying to make some official documentation | 17:56 |
| holstein | i need to get that added to the install wiki at some point | 17:56 |
| falktx | i promised a live-dvd of US, and I'll make it | 17:57 |
| falktx | just need time... | 17:57 |
| holstein | i saw that i missed i question about that in #ubuntustudio | 17:57 |
| holstein | "cant get unetbootin to work with ubuntustudio iso | 17:58 |
| holstein | resonable mistake | 17:58 |
| holstein | if you're new to the alternate installers | 17:58 |
| holstein | alright, for realz.. BBL | 18:01 |
| holstein | done with lunch | 18:01 |
| === falktx is now known as falkTX | ||
| scott-work | holstein: in your bug you link to a flash drive install page and say that it _should_ work, are you saying that you tried it with ubuntu studio and it doesn't work? | 19:11 |
| holstein | scott-work: OH | 22:06 |
| holstein | good point | 22:06 |
| holstein | let me go and fix that | 22:06 |
| holstein | that is a work-around that i actually havent tried | 22:06 |
| holstein | BUT i have been told several times that it worked with 10.04 | 22:06 |
| holstein | hasnt come up since than | 22:07 |
| holstein | then* | 22:07 |
| scott-work | holstein: sorry, i wasn't meaning to be a syntax nazi ;) i meant more of does it work? | 22:08 |
| holstein | scott-work: no, totally | 22:09 |
| holstein | its not clear | 22:09 |
| holstein | i did it really quick before lunch | 22:09 |
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