[00:56] ailo, the ubuntustudio-dev group is restricted to those familiar with code, otherwise some fairly dramatic, although unintentional, issues might result :P [01:02] ScottL: No problem. Just trying to figure out how things are connected. Who does what, what needs to be done. Is there a wishlist. That sort of thing. [01:14] ailo, i'm glad you feel that way :) [01:14] as far as a wishlist, this would be the closest thing, i think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning [01:15] to be honest, it seems that most people are not involved consistently enough to do it collaboratively, so i keep a running list of things i would like to accomplish [01:15] i wish it were otherwise [01:15] ScottL: maybe we could get a few of use commited [01:16] and do something more formal [01:16] ailo and i were talking about a wiki page [01:16] with tasks [01:16] holstein, that would be awesome [01:16] and we assign ourselves [01:16] we used to have something similar, hold one [01:16] i was talking about maybe we could get something like that going on by february [01:16] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/LucidTaskList [01:17] At least it would be great if all participants, even tester can check what needs testing, what needs solving and so on. [01:17] yes it would :) [01:18] i had thought about making a task-list page, one that would be continually updated for each release instead of a new one for each release [01:18] but it doesn't have to be that way, whatever people want and whatever works [01:19] ScottL: whatever you think is more convinient [01:19] We could start by just one for Natty, and if it works to keep the same for later releases, just keep it. [01:20] i like it [01:21] I'm a little concerned with some out of date pages here and there, on launchpad, and maybe on the wiki too [01:21] When people look for info, it can get a little confusing [01:23] ailo: sounds like a good item for that wiki we're proposing [01:24] maybe just a search and locate the pages project [01:24] thats something i could chew through [01:25] I think there should be a link to a development, open to anyone on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/, that doesn't need to conflict with the dev teams work. [01:25] updating the out-of-date pages, or deprecating them, would be a good task :) [01:26] That would be a good starting point to collect links to other pages too [01:26] ailo, the general feeling is that all pages on wiki.ubuntu.com should be for developing ubuntu studio and help.ubuntu.com should be for using ubuntu studio [01:27] OH [01:27] that's just a large and generalized overview of the documentation scheme [01:27] thats news to me [01:27] makes sense though [01:27] there is some cross pollination between the two, but i think it would be helpful going forward to try to adhere to that convention [01:29] We need some standard items to work on as well, I think, but perhaps this could be outlined in a meeting later on. I'm thinking we need a list of things to test, and that sort of thing. [01:30] i like the idea here [01:30] some of the things to test would be based on the work flows beings developed, but also there are other, more system-level things as well [01:30] a non-dev development wiki page [01:30] someting i can just reference real quick [01:30] drop links to wiki pages in [01:30] ping you guys to look at them [01:30] things that i think need to be tested [01:30] OR that i need confirmed [01:31] It's generally the oversight I feel is missing, that probably the dev guys have, but it's not communicating. [01:32] i think the more we do though [01:32] to be organized [01:32] the better [01:32] I agree [01:32] if we have links to present with black and white print of what we need [01:32] drop that in #moto or whatever [01:33] i had tried to get a few guys to form a testing group to develop some of these tests [01:33] just oversight stuff like: does jack start, does ardour start, does gimp start, etc [01:33] its challenging [01:33] with JACK [01:34] making some simple recordings, use a synth to make noise (or music) [01:34] that can be SO hardware dependant [01:34] Is UbuntuStudio-controls still outdated? [01:34] my firewire interface wont start with JACK in 10.10 [01:34] but that doesnt make JACK broken [01:34] I'd say these are issues to put in the wiki [01:35] and im just getting to where i think i could trouble-shoot and get to the bottom of some of that [01:40] I think many users are accustomed to doing fixes themselves on a lot of releases. They won't do a bug report even. [01:40] bug reports are still challening for me [01:40] and its a lot of work too [01:41] can be [01:41] ailo, yes, ubuntustudio-controls is outdated [01:41] and, like my issue [01:41] is that a bug? [01:41] JACK works [01:41] i can't find anybody with python experience who is willing to work on it [01:41] just not with my firewire interface [01:41] ScottL: I know a little python. [01:41] i filed a bug report though [01:42] holstein, i don't think it's that big of deal to test jack, we need someone with pci card and another with firewire to test it using their normal setup [01:42] I'm guessing it's basically just a script, but it needs su permission to edit files. [01:42] they should be familiar enough with their hardware to understand what it should take to get it started, if it doesn't start then there is a problem [01:42] ailo, yes, basically, but there is other stuff [01:42] sure, but how do we get it fixed ? [01:43] like checking to see if the limits.conf file (or whatever) already has rtprio, et al, already there and change that line instead of adding a new one [01:43] i dont think its OK to ship it out of the box with what would be needed [01:43] OR that was the excuse i heard that made sense [01:44] and, how much of a priority should firewire devices be? [01:44] ScottL: jack is using a different file for that now. It's in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf [01:44] holstein, in a general sense, if testing results in a problem, then report it in a bug or to the -dev team, and we work on a fix before release [01:44] it doesnt say anywhere on the site 'firewire support out of the box' [01:44] holstein, but i understand your point about firewire devices [01:44] ive seen the bugs for that though [01:44] and i concede the point [01:45] since hardy and before [01:45] Ubuntustudio control should not be needed anymore, unless one wants to toggle rt [01:45] and when i have made noise, i heard a security concern, which i understand [01:45] i would like to perhaps have a ubuntu studio-dev ppa with a -rt kernel in it and have a package that updates the sources.list to include that ppa [01:45] ScottL: i like that [01:45] ailo, i think it also enable the raw1394 for video/firewire [01:46] ScottL: right, but that has changed too now. [01:46] Because of the new firewire stack [01:46] holstein, let's be honest, laptops and firewire cards are probably half (if not more) of the users now and probably will continue to be a substantial percentage for the future [01:46] yeah, might need to search aroudn and find all the changes [01:46] get them on that wiki too [01:46] so we know what is what [01:46] ailo, oh, i didn't know that [01:47] ScottL: i think its a good idea for it to be a priority IF the focus is going to be pro-audio out of the box [01:47] I put the question to Asmo on the -dev mail list if he got firewire working out of the box on Natty. On Maverick it won't. [01:48] Installing jackd already takes care of rt [01:48] ScottL ailo , i think this has been a productive meeting so far :) [01:51] ScottL: I think it has been proved that there is a gap between user and dev in this case. Testing is a way to redeem that. I think Abogani put it out there first, and that has made a few of us users to get involved. [01:52] We don't need to be so many, but we need all kinds [01:52] To do testing [01:52] And we need to be able to see the results, and then act on them [01:54] ailo, "installing jack takes care of rt"...i think yes and no, it installs a preset in the audio.conf file but what if someone wants to change the memlock from unlimited? [01:54] holstein, i agree, this has been productive :) [01:55] ailo, very true, we had considered developing a matrix of what types of test and testers we would like (e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd using firewire, etc) [01:57] Ubuntustudio-control is a way for a normal user to get access to rt control, without having to know how it works. I think jackd's default settings already take are of that. For a new user, they don't even know what rt is. [01:58] I think abstracting things is a big discussion. On Linux we like to be able to do what we want [01:58] Gui-tools do not always let you do that, but if this one has legitimity, why not? [02:00] ScottL: Anyway, I like "e.g. start jackd using pci card, start jackd...". We need that. [02:02] ScottL: I'll have a look at Ubuntustudio controls. I have knowledge enough to adjust it. The base code is already there. One only needs to tweak it. If needed I can do something with it. Otherwise, I would take it off the repo. [02:11] ailo, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16 [02:12] about 1/2 down the first screen it mentions ubuntustudio-controls update [02:14] ailo, i don't know that we have considered all the uses for -controls [02:14] ScottL: Ok, so there are some big plans for that app, then :) [02:14] Sort of like a US wizard [02:14] not necessarily, just floating ideas, but no one seemed to really get into it [02:15] but you are right, if nothing is going to be done with it (e.g. fix it or improve it), then it should be removed [02:16] +1 on remove [02:16] holstein had mentioned included the -rt kernel on the disc like another distro had done along with instructions how to install it [02:16] this might be translated into something in -controls for the -rt kernel ppa [02:16] for an example [02:17] well, thats true [02:17] and a good ide [02:17] a [02:17] hmmm [02:17] lol [02:17] I'm interested in that. [02:18] I like the idea of some sort of wizard, that would help new users to get comfortable fast. [02:18] stochastic made another suggestion that i had toyed with before: giving new users links to help via shortcuts on the desktop [02:18] i would even like to include a 'release notes' also on the disc that installs and is in the menu [02:18] * ScottL stole that from debian lxde [02:19] i like all of this [02:19] i feel like, if you're using ubuntustudio, and dont get on the irc [02:19] you're just screwed [02:20] OR i was [02:20] when i have built a machine for friends and installed ubuntu studio i do a few things for them [02:20] i used to fire up rosegarden and wonder why it wasnt doing anything [02:20] or wonder what those JACK errors were when i would click on something [02:20] i add firefox icons on the desktop for help.ubuntu.com, ubuntu forums, wiki.ubuntu.com, a video i made for starting and using jack, ardour, rakarrack [02:20] Well, we could decide on a deadline when it needs to be finished. I can take it on. I'm sure there lot's of people interested in participating. [02:20] and setup xchat to get into #ubuntustudio on IRC [02:21] ScottL: NICE [02:21] instead of #ubuntu [02:21] i would love to include instruction videos (or links to them) on the disc [02:21] ScottL: we have missed natty right? [02:21] natty is in freeze for us too right? [02:21] but all these ideas get put on the backburner because i'm struggling to things straight just for releases [02:22] or does that include us too? [02:22] holstein, no, it shouldn't be yet i don't think [02:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule [02:22] release freeze is at the end of february, i think that would be what we need to worry about [02:23] BUT, if we are making new packages, then yes we would have troubles, REVU doesn't move fast :( [02:23] we should probably organize it all and truly understand what we want to incorporate [02:23] then make a simple package for just one part of what we want done [02:24] once it's in the repos, then updating it to include other aspects is much, much easier [02:24] Well, I'm still waiting to hear whether firewire does work out of the box. If it does, US-controls won't be needed anyway, and we can let that one wait until the next release. [02:24] i dont think we need to make new packages [02:24] for now [02:24] for natty [02:24] some of these little changes would be great though [02:25] and a menu item or 2 [02:25] there were still things that i had planned for natty: updating menu, new artwork, new plymouth theme [02:25] ScottL: did you see that email from falk? [02:25] about his menu? [02:25] i liked that too [02:25] yes holstein, but there are things going on in debian that might preclude our efforts [02:26] AH [02:26] they are considering the same thing, but not in the hackneyed way we are currently doing it [02:26] About plymouth, what's the problem other than that it is not syncing with boot (so fast these days) [02:26] they want to create new categories and including these categories in the desktop file [02:26] this way it's all automatic and according to convention [02:27] Categorizing is hard to do on a general level [02:27] ScottL: i like that to [02:27] o [02:27] whats the ETA on that? [02:27] ailo, well, the graphics are crappy :-) i can say that becuase i did them (plymouth) [02:28] seriously, i realized that we were switching, nobody had a plymouth theme, so i spent a frantic weekend learning plymouth, and made that theme [02:28] i dont think i have the US plymouth theme [02:28] Wow, nice work. It impressed my friends, when I showed them US. [02:28] maybe i broke it [02:29] cory's new plymouth theme (that needs some tweaks): http://www.fossmusicproject.org/public/images/new-plymouth-theme.png [02:29] ignore the fact that the circle-like thing is to the left of the coF [02:29] The plymouth theme doesn't really have any reason to exist in the future, I think, since boots are so fast. Better to use a simple image. [02:29] if should be over the CoF and spinning in a circle [02:29] yeah, saw that, and i liked it [02:30] slcik [02:30] slick* [02:30] i would also like to remove the progress bar because of what ailo said [02:30] slick is the word [02:31] * ScottL is going to take a shower [02:31] ScottL: laterx [02:31] ailo: i like where this is going [02:32] holstein: me too. [03:02] ailo, and holstein, agreed, this is asesome progress, i'm very glad that both of you are here :) [03:03] w00t [03:04] i'll try to add these ideas to the release planning page for natty+1 [03:04] just to get them down on "paper" [09:10] * abogani waves [09:10] Which will be the default music player in Natty? banshee? [09:13] abogani: I heard it would be, but so far not.. [09:14] Though, rythmbox has ben removed from the volume indicator menu [09:15] ailo: Thanks! [10:50] ScottL: ping me when you are around - Id like to pass the ML's completely over to you [13:49] jussi: is this something that needs to be done while i am at work? [13:49] s/work/home? [14:00] supercollider may be hitting debian soon :) [14:01] looks like a patch went from debian multimedia upstream and it is being incorporated into the their upcoming release [17:55] scott-work: ScottL if you get a minute, feel free to mark that new bug i filed 'wishlist' as well [17:55] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/697774 [17:55] Ubuntu bug 697774 in Ubuntu Studio "cant install ubuntustudio from USB stick" [Undecided,New] [17:55] i'll go ahead and assigne myself [17:55] bbl... [17:55] hehe, holstein, that will only work if US was a live-cd/dvd [17:56] falktx: i already filed that bug :) [17:56] and marked it wishlist [17:56] just trying to make some official documentation [17:56] i need to get that added to the install wiki at some point [17:57] i promised a live-dvd of US, and I'll make it [17:57] just need time... [17:57] i saw that i missed i question about that in #ubuntustudio [17:58] "cant get unetbootin to work with ubuntustudio iso [17:58] resonable mistake [17:58] if you're new to the alternate installers [18:01] alright, for realz.. BBL [18:01] done with lunch === falktx is now known as falkTX [19:11] holstein: in your bug you link to a flash drive install page and say that it _should_ work, are you saying that you tried it with ubuntu studio and it doesn't work? [22:06] scott-work: OH [22:06] good point [22:06] let me go and fix that [22:06] that is a work-around that i actually havent tried [22:06] BUT i have been told several times that it worked with 10.04 [22:07] hasnt come up since than [22:07] then* [22:08] holstein: sorry, i wasn't meaning to be a syntax nazi ;) i meant more of does it work? [22:09] scott-work: no, totally [22:09] its not clear [22:09] i did it really quick before lunch