[14:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
[14:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <janimo> hello all
[15:00] <rsalveti> hey!
[15:00] <GrueMaster> Zzzzzz
[15:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110106
[15:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110106
[15:01] <NCommander> No items standing from last meeting
[15:01] <NCommander> so
[15:01] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html
[15:02] <ogra> hrm
[15:02] <rsalveti> we're bad
[15:02] <NCommander> burndown chart looks really bad
[15:02] <ogra> where are the canonical-arm charts please ?
[15:02] <ogra> there is still time until a2
[15:02] <NCommander> ogra: there's identicial to the ubuntu-arel, and this is the ubuntu ARMl meeting
[15:02] <ogra> and a rally inbetween
[15:02] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:03] <rsalveti> and next week we can see what can be moved to alpha-3
[15:03] <rsalveti> and discuss better
[15:03] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
[15:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/natty/canonical-arm.html
[15:03] <NCommander> overall wI progress
[15:03] <NCommander> [link] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[15:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html
[15:03] <rsalveti> ogra: ^
[15:03] <NCommander> Assigned bug page has really grown crazy
[15:04] <NCommander> definiately need to do some work (all of us) on cleaning it out
[15:04] <rsalveti> my bugs are mostly just waiting uploads
[15:04] <rsalveti> the kernel team just updated the master branch for maverick, so we should see a new kernel at the proposed
[15:04] <ogra> some of mine are moot
[15:05] <rsalveti> and that will fix some of my bugs
[15:05] <ogra> and need a decision if i drop them
[15:05] <ogra> but then i only have 5
[15:05] <marjo> ogra: what decision do you need?
[15:05] <rsalveti> ogra: there's still the alsa-utils bug, that's not open I guess
[15:05] <ogra> NCommander, what do you think is crazy about it ? looks pretty good to me
[15:05] <rsalveti> yeah, looks ok for me too
[15:05] <ogra> rsalveti, yeah, tegh linux upload closed it
[15:06] <janimo> it is definitely not exhaustive
[15:06] <NCommander> ogra: davidm said we need to work towards clearing it out
[15:06] <rsalveti> I'm more worried about the WI than the bugs
[15:06] <janimo> but I guess ftbfs bugs are a separate issue
[15:06] <ogra> marjo, there are some packages we dont have anymore and i need to decide if i want to work on them or not
[15:06] <marjo> ogra: ack
[15:06] <ogra> janimo, yeah, we dont treat them separately with bugs
[15:06] <rsalveti> there are some quite old ones for persia, but he's not around for weeks :-(
[15:06] <ogra> yeah
[15:07] <NCommander> also some for dyfet that should be cleared
[15:07] <janimo> rsalveti, still many are filed as bugs nontheless
[15:07] <ogra> but all in all we only have 21 bugs on that page
[15:07] <davidm> If anyone sees persia please let him know I'm trying to reach him
[15:07] <ogra> doesnt look problematic to me
[15:07]  * janimo wishes those were linked form the qa ftbfs page
[15:07] <ogra> davidm, what worries you about that page ?
[15:07] <rsalveti> davidm: is there anyone else from canonical at japan?
[15:08] <rsalveti> maybe trying a hard ping, to see if he'sok
[15:08] <davidm> rsalveti, not that I know of
[15:08]  * NCommander would stop in Japan in RL if I had any trans-Pacific travel planned :-/
[15:08] <rsalveti> yeah, we can just send NCommander over there
[15:08] <ogra> NCommander, quick, just plan one
[15:08] <rsalveti> hehe, as he loves traveling
[15:09] <ogra> just fly to dallas through tokio
[15:09] <GrueMaster> Yes, he does.
[15:09] <ogra> just a minor extra leg to do
[15:09] <ogra> davidm, what worries you about http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html ?
[15:09] <NCommander> ogra: pft, GrueMaster could trivially do it while going to Bellingham, WA :-P
[15:10] <ogra> many of these are either reminders (in emmets case) or will be solved togerther with other fixes (my flash-kernel ones) or are already in progress (rsalvetis)
[15:10] <rsalveti> yeah
[15:11]  * NCommander will work on clearing some on his
[15:11] <NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
[15:11] <ogra> you only have two
[15:11] <davidm> ogra, that is part of it
[15:11] <ogra> and dont be worried about the WI tracker
[15:11] <ogra> lets revisit after the rally
[15:11] <davidm> there is also the armel bugs in general but that is shared with Linaro and community
[15:11] <ogra> we usually get 30% done during a sprint
[15:12] <rsalveti> cool
[15:12] <ogra> davidm, sure
[15:12] <davidm> Yea, I expect next week with be a good one
[15:12]  * ogra plans to implement the whole jasper rewrite 
[15:12] <ogra> which should clean out the majority of my tasks
[15:12] <ogra> and if i manage i'll finish the PPA builder image too
[15:13] <ogra> what will you guys focus on ?
[15:13] <davidm> Cool
[15:13] <rsalveti> nice, lot of fun work to do :-)
[15:13] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney)
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney)
[15:13] <rsalveti> ok, moving to kernel
[15:13] <ogra> would be good to coordinate that while we're at the Wi tracker topic
[15:13] <ogra> hrm, we arent anymore
[15:13] <ogra> k
[15:13] <rsalveti> omap 3 kernel is up again
[15:13] <rsalveti> thanks to apw
[15:13] <NCommander> hrm no cody-sooloney
[15:13] <ogra> yep
[15:13] <rsalveti> I can report from him
[15:13] <ogra> meta was just uploaded
[15:13] <rsalveti> NCommander: also, you can put my name on this topic
[15:14] <rsalveti> as I'm mostly working with kernel bugs all the time
[15:14] <NCommander> rsalveti: will do
[15:14] <rsalveti> and for omap 4 there was only one upload
[15:14] <ogra> omap4 had an upload too
[15:14] <NCommander> just ell me when to proceed
[15:14] <rsalveti> fixing bug 694461
[15:14] <rsalveti> we still don't have any image, but we'll need a new x-loader upload
[15:14] <rsalveti> the package is ready and tested
[15:14] <rsalveti> will poke ogra during the sprint :-)
[15:15] <ogra> yeah
[15:15] <rsalveti> probably on monday
[15:15] <ogra> i'll try to get omap3 rolling tomorrow
[15:15] <rsalveti> and no other news from TI
[15:15] <ogra> though it will fail due to u-boot too
[15:15] <ogra> waiting for lool still
[15:15] <rsalveti> :-(
[15:15] <ogra> if there wasnt a u-boot upload by end of my day tomorrow, i'll do one myself
[15:15] <rsalveti> also, finally there was one update at maverick's kernel
[15:16] <rsalveti> should be on proposed soon
[15:16] <ogra> to be over-synced by the debian upload from lool
[15:16] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: that will close a lot of bugs
[15:16] <rsalveti> as the last upload was from mid december
[15:16] <GrueMaster> ok
[15:16] <rsalveti> guess that's all from kernel
[15:17] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:17] <GrueMaster> No images since Dec. 14.  Testing limited to dist-update only.
[15:17] <GrueMaster> Python update caused a bit of a headache as it killed checkbox.  This was recently fixed.
[15:18] <GrueMaster> Firefox is still broken.
[15:18] <GrueMaster> Bugs are filed (don't have numbers off hand).
[15:18] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: are you able to successfully open the X server and the usual efl session?
[15:18] <rsalveti> you said you had some issues in the past with that
[15:19] <GrueMaster> I will be making a dup of my ports.ubuntu.com mirror to bring.  I can keep it up to date there.
[15:19] <GrueMaster> netbook-efl works again (I think).  Not sure if it was a setting that got clobbered.
[15:19] <ogra> i thought elmo brings one anyway
[15:19] <GrueMaster> He usually only has x86/amd64.
[15:19] <rsalveti> oh, ok
[15:19] <ogra> ah
[15:20] <rsalveti> maybe we can request that
[15:20] <GrueMaster> Meh.   I have one locally.
[15:20] <janimo> GrueMaster, firefox broken in what way? Crashes on startup?
[15:20] <GrueMaster> Not that hard for me to dup.
[15:20] <GrueMaster> Firefox crashes on startup, yes.
[15:20] <rsalveti> janimo: sounds fun for you :-)
[15:20] <NCommander> GrueMaster: elmo always had ports to my knowledge
[15:20] <janimo> rsalveti, indeed
[15:20] <ogra> yeah, i thought that too
[15:21] <rsalveti> janimo: by the way, you're doing a great job on the ftbfs
[15:21] <ogra> janimo, well, you have chrisccoulson there ... we can just corner him until he fixes
[15:21] <ogra> ++
[15:21] <ogra> absolutely
[15:21] <NCommander> anyway, I'm going to move on
[15:21] <GrueMaster> Hm.  Firefox appears to be working again.  Must have fixed in an update yesterday.
[15:21] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:21] <ogra> the ftbfs never looked that good at that time of release
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:21] <janimo> ogra, if it is arm specific I can look into it
[15:22]  * NCommander didn't mean to change topic but ..
[15:22] <ogra> only 70 packages
[15:22] <NCommander> FTBFS list looks outstanding
[15:22] <rsalveti> yeah, quite ok
[15:22] <GrueMaster> Oops, nevermind.  Wrong image.
[15:22] <ogra> and that includes universe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:22] <janimo> quite a lot are haskell ones, which should be fine once (when) ghc6 builds ok
[15:22] <ogra> janimo, you rock !!!!!!!111111!!!!!!!!!!one
[15:22] <NCommander> +1 janimo
[15:22] <NCommander> shall he get much free beer atthe rally
[15:22] <ogra> ++
[15:22] <janimo> thank, I didn;t think I did that much actually
[15:22] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:23] <ogra> davidm, can you request that as expense
[15:23] <ogra> ?
[15:23] <rsalveti> haha
[15:23] <ogra> "get janimo lots of drinks"
[15:23] <NCommander> ogra: nah 'Developer Fuel'
[15:23] <ogra> heh
[15:23] <NCommander> much easier to pass by uppe rmanagement :-)
[15:23] <ogra> anyway, move i guess
[15:23] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:23] <ogra> bad
[15:24] <ogra> Riddell, removed uboot-mkimage on dec. 14th
[15:24] <ogra> that broke all image builds
[15:24] <ogra> uboot-mkimage is supposed to be replaced by a new u-boot package from debian
[15:24] <ogra> which didnt get its MIR approved
[15:24] <ogra> because it builds bootloader binaries as well as the toold
[15:24] <ogra> *tools
[15:25] <ogra> so we are waiting for a split package from debian that splits out the tools
[15:25] <NCommander> ugh
[15:25] <ogra> lool committed that upstream in debian
[15:25] <ogra> but it wasnt uploaded there yet
[15:25] <ogra> if we dont get that new package by tomorrow evening i'll do an upload myself
[15:26] <ogra> from the git tree
[15:26] <rsalveti> cool
[15:26] <NCommander> cool, thanks ogra
[15:26] <ogra> so we will have overcome that issue
[15:26] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:26] <rsalveti> then we should be fine again, at least getting images
[15:26] <ogra> but that willo not guarantee tghat the images build
[15:26] <ogra> since we dont know how out of sync the archive is
[15:26] <rsalveti> well, we'll move ahead of one bug :-)
[15:26] <ogra> beyond that ...
[15:27] <ogra> we will need to spend a lot of time next week on the seeds
[15:27] <rsalveti> but over the weekend we generally get a stable archive
[15:27] <ogra> well
[15:27] <ogra> you never know who uploads crap before steppping on the plane
[15:27] <rsalveti> heheh, true
[15:27] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[15:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:27] <ogra> i wouldnt count on a stable archive
[15:27] <rsalveti> sprint
[15:27] <ogra> WIs
[15:27] <NCommander> no IRC meeting next week
[15:27] <ogra> what is who working on next week ?
[15:28]  * ogra already outlined his plans above
[15:28] <rsalveti> I'll be working on the gles stuff and try to work on the core boot update
[15:28] <ogra> how are yours
[15:28] <ogra> cool
[15:28] <rsalveti> but that one depends on the arch detect stuff from Nafallo
[15:28] <rsalveti> ops
[15:28] <rsalveti> NCommander
[15:28]  * NCommander has his Texian visa
[15:28] <janimo> I'll work on packaging qemu-linaro and miniamkl devel images
[15:28] <janimo> minimal
[15:28] <rsalveti> janimo: nice
[15:28] <ogra> yeah
[15:28] <rsalveti> then we can change rootstock and test over there
[15:29] <ogra> ++
[15:29] <GrueMaster> I'll be focused on checkbox.
[15:29] <NCommander> mostly work items, and archdetect since cjwatson will be accessible
[15:29] <NCommander> also other stuff
[15:29] <NCommander> anyway
[15:29] <NCommander> closing meeting in 3
[15:29] <ogra> davidm, how is the status for the build cluster ?
[15:29] <rsalveti> no
[15:29] <NCommander> 2
[15:29] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:29] <NCommander> 3
[15:29] <NCommander> bah
[15:29] <ogra> NCommander, can you wait ?
[15:29] <NCommander> waiting
[15:29] <ogra> we still have 30min
[15:30] <davidm> build cluster is stalled until panda boards ship
[15:30] <ogra> what HW do we need to bring
[15:30] <rsalveti> talking about hardware, please make sure we're bringing yours panda
[15:30] <ogra> and who brings what ?
[15:30] <davidm> I'm hoping to see them soonish
[15:30] <rsalveti> I'll also bring one xM
[15:30] <davidm> Everyone should bring panda's
[15:30] <davidm> and their cables
[15:30] <rsalveti> janimo: anything you're missing at your setup?
[15:30] <davidm> We will get monitors as needed
[15:30] <GrueMaster> I'll have 2 pandas, beagle, XM, and my flyswatter.
[15:31]  * NCommander has his AC100, and will help with GrueMaster's pandas
[15:31] <janimo> rsalveti, no, all is fine
[15:31] <ogra> do i need to bring both pandas ?
[15:31] <rsalveti> one should be fine
[15:31] <ogra> or am i fine with one ?
[15:31] <ogra> i heard linaro has some need
[15:31] <rsalveti> the latest and the greatest
[15:31] <janimo> doing only headeless work now, but monitor works too
[15:31] <GrueMaster> Also contemplating bringing a core2duo MB to use for builds and other stuff.
[15:31] <ogra> do we want to help them out ?
[15:31] <rsalveti> depends on how much time we'll have
[15:31] <rsalveti> but for sure, we can help
[15:32]  * ogra will also bring his ac100 and the genesi netbook
[15:32] <janimo> I like how fast the panda is actually
[15:32] <lool> NB: mkimage removal was actually requested by bdrung who apologized for the inconvenience, and I'm myself waiting for Clint to comment on u-boot-tools before upload, but it can be taken from Debian git and uploaded to Ubuntu if you block on it
[15:32] <GrueMaster> I'll also bring my blaze.  I hope to either upgrade it or offload it.
[15:32] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: yeah, good idea
[15:32] <ogra> lool, yes, but not checked by the archive admin who removed it
[15:33] <ogra> lool, and yes, it needs to be in ubuntu this weel
[15:33] <ogra> *week
[15:33] <ogra> lool, we need working images ready on monday
[15:33] <ogra> GrueMaster, offload ?
[15:33] <ogra> to whom ?
[15:33] <GrueMaster> preferably would be nice to have images by tomorrow.
[15:34] <ogra> we wont
[15:34] <rsalveti> ogra: well, we'll be at dallas
[15:34] <NCommander> GrueMaster: that's extremely unlikely
[15:34] <ogra> MIR isnt approved
[15:34] <GrueMaster> I'll leave it with davidm to return to TI if I can't get it upgraded.
[15:34] <ogra> i expect to get the MIR approved on monday earliest
[15:34] <rsalveti> there will be some TI folks too during the sprint
[15:34] <ogra> most MIR team members are travelling
[15:35] <ogra> GrueMaster, it can bve upgraded at some point
[15:35] <ogra> you should really keep the shell
[15:35]  * NCommander has nothng else on Dallas
[15:35] <GrueMaster> I asked for an upgrade at the TI sprint.  still waiting.  If it isn't going to be upgraded this cycle, I would rather it go to someone that can use it.
[15:36] <ogra> nobody can use it
[15:36] <ogra> without upgraded core board
[15:36] <ogra> so it wont help anyone
[15:36] <NCommander> anything else w.r.t. to the rally, or can I close now?
[15:37] <rsalveti> I'm fine now
[15:37] <lool> ogra: what's breaking your image right now?
[15:37] <GrueMaster> rsalveti: Bring coffee beans.
[15:37] <janimo> there's no schedule, we just show up and work on what we discuss there
[15:37] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: oh, sure
[15:37] <ogra> lool, missing mkimage
[15:37] <NCommander> going once
[15:37] <ogra> lool, it fails to install jasper due to the missing dep
[15:38] <ogra> lool, lets take that to -arm, NCommander is in a rush again
[15:38] <NCommander> :-p
[15:38] <NCommander> anyway
[15:38] <NCommander> going once
[15:38] <NCommander> twice
[15:38] <NCommander> three times
[15:38] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:38] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:38.
[15:39] <lool> I wanted to ask about topics for the workshop
[15:39] <lool> I didn't get replies to my email yet
[15:39] <ogra> hmm, to late, we listed the specs above at least
[15:40] <ogra> lool, i guess we can just sit down on monday
[15:40] <ogra> and coordinate
[15:40] <ogra> lets plan a 20min meeting with both teams or some such
[18:32] <leoquant> @schedule
[18:33] <leoquant> @now
[18:33] <leoquant> thank you ubottu
[19:00] <beardygnome> hi guys
[19:01]  * charlie-tca waves
[19:01] <leoquant> o/
[19:01] <beardygnome> i'm working away from home this week, so am connected via 30-minute hotel wifi vouchers
[19:01] <ochosi> hi
[19:01] <cody-somerville> hi
[19:01] <charlie-tca> I really hope everyone had a really good holiday and New Years! Now let's get this first meeting of 2011 started.
[19:01] <beardygnome> so i'll drop out about half way through and have to re-login!
[19:02]  * pleia2 waves
[19:02] <charlie-tca> That will work. thanks for letting us know in advance
[19:02] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting
[19:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:02. The chair is charlie-tca.
[19:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:03] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] agenda is available in full at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda is available in full at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:03] <charlie-tca> We will cover it one item at a time.
[19:04] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
[19:04] <charlie-tca> I see we are waiting for an update about xubuntu.org?
[19:04] <charlie-tca> pleia2 or cody-somerville ?
[19:04] <cody-somerville> I need to reply to an e-mail from pleia2
[19:05] <charlie-tca> You know we are going to keep bugging you, right?
[19:05] <pleia2> hehe
[19:05] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
[19:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
[19:05] <cody-somerville> I actually forgot about it so its good you did
[19:06]  * cody-somerville hates his inbox.
[19:06] <charlie-tca> heh, no problem
[19:06] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
[19:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
[19:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit here?
[19:06] <mr_pouit> \o
[19:07] <mr_pouit> yep, sorry
[19:07] <charlie-tca> No problem. go ahead, sir
[19:07] <mr_pouit> uploaded Xfce 4.8~pre3
[19:07] <charlie-tca> w00t!
[19:07] <mr_pouit> that's all for this week :P
[19:07] <ochosi> yeah, a lot seems to work better now
[19:07] <charlie-tca> That's a big one! any questions about packaging and development?
[19:07] <ochosi> great work on that mr_pouit
[19:08] <ochosi> hm, where/when would we discuss default apps and the like?
[19:08] <micahg> o/
[19:08] <charlie-tca> Thanks for keeping up with those changes
[19:08] <micahg> mr_pouit: is it feasible to backport xfce 4.8 to lucid and maverick?
[19:08] <charlie-tca> micahg: go ahead
[19:09] <mr_pouit> micahg: if there's a very recent debhelper, yeah
[19:09] <micahg> I'm wondering if the community would like such a thing
[19:09] <ochosi> i would assume so
[19:09] <micahg> mr_pouit: do you think it would be high maintenance?
[19:09]  * beardygnome would!
[19:09] <charlie-tca> Does it have to be all or can it be a module, like xfce4-panel?
[19:10] <mr_pouit> (well, 'very' = more recent than in lucid)
[19:10] <micahg> mr_pouit: are you using dh8?
[19:10] <mr_pouit> no no, only 7
[19:10] <micahg> lucid has 7.4.15
[19:11] <mr_pouit> yeah, but we use some stuff from 7.4.2 ;-)
[19:11] <mr_pouit> that's why I stopped updating the ppa ;>
[19:11] <ochosi> sry to bring this up again, but default apps now or later?
[19:11] <micahg> ah, you were already trying to do this
[19:11] <charlie-tca> By all means, bring it up
[19:12] <mr_pouit> uh, wait, 7.4.15 is greater than 7.4.2
[19:12] <mr_pouit> (I need to check, let's continue another time)
[19:12] <micahg> mr_pouit: right, was just about to say that
[19:12] <micahg> ok
[19:12] <mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, I think it should be discussed on the ml
[19:13] <ochosi> ok, i was just wondering whether we should maybe talk about a few of the current defaults, e.g. browser
[19:13] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, i'm fine with that
[19:13] <mr_pouit> although it's not usually very cosntructive =]
[19:13] <ochosi> ml is maybe more transparent
[19:13] <ochosi> :)
[19:13] <ochosi> yeah, probably
[19:13] <charlie-tca> ochosi: Want to get that discussion going then?
[19:13] <ochosi> basically i thought that alternatives to ff might be discussed
[19:14] <ochosi> there's midori which is developing nicely and chromium of course
[19:14] <ochosi> dunno whether any of you are not using firefox
[19:14]  * beardygnome uses chromium and loves it
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Midori has issues getting bookmarks transferred from ff, we need an easy way to move them
[19:15] <charlie-tca> I use firefox, because it is default and needs testing too
[19:15] <beardygnome> i also have midori installed, but chromium is much better imo
[19:15] <ochosi> chromium is more grown-up in a way
[19:15] <ochosi> and more stable
[19:15] <beardygnome> and looks way better
[19:15] <ochosi> but i have no clue what version they plan to include in natty
[19:15] <micahg> ochosi: than what?
[19:15] <beardygnome> though is less integrated to the desktop
[19:16] <beardygnome> than midori
[19:16] <ochosi> micahg: in my experience it's more stable than midori
[19:16] <micahg> ah, yeah, for sure
[19:16] <ochosi> beardygnome: not anymore from v.9 onwards
[19:16] <ochosi> beardygnome: i already integrated theming for chromium >= v.9 in our default theme
[19:16] <beardygnome> cool
[19:16] <ochosi> but i agree, v.8 does not look/feel very integrated
[19:16]  * beardygnome checks what version he's running
[19:17] <ochosi> but it's still a bit snappier
[19:17] <ochosi> than firefox
[19:17] <mr_pouit> (I think chromium is more integrated, as it is able to register itself as default browser in exo)
[19:17] <ochosi> mr_pouit: good point
[19:17] <beardygnome> i'm running v9 from the daily ppa, but have pinned it at a version i was happy with
[19:17] <micahg> mr_pouit: we should discuss why Firefox doesn't do that later
[19:18] <ochosi> beardygnome: feel free to test the theme and the chromium theming
[19:18] <beardygnome> will do
[19:18] <charlie-tca> Let's take it up on the ML, and include any other apps we might want to discuss changing. lightdm to replace GDM is one that comes to mind.
[19:18]  * beardygnome adds it to his list
[19:18] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] oshosi will get the discussion started on the ML for default applications in Natty
[19:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  oshosi will get the discussion started on the ML for default applications in Natty
[19:18] <ochosi> charlie-tca: agreed
[19:18] <beardygnome> didn't we have a chat with the devs of lightdm last year?
[19:18] <charlie-tca> That way we get a record of why we used what we did, too
[19:19] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: yes, we did. The results of that is that lightdm is now in universe for Natty
[19:19] <ochosi> has anyone here tested lightdm yet?
[19:20] <charlie-tca> I tested in VBox and it worked great on a new install.
[19:20] <charlie-tca> Unfortunately, I can't get it to work on my hardware install
[19:20] <ochosi> hm, maybe i'll give it a try if i have time
[19:20] <ochosi> so we skip the rest of the default apps now and continue on the ml?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> Yes, I think so
[19:21] <charlie-tca> We should all be able to test them, then
[19:21] <ochosi> k
[19:21] <charlie-tca> Anything else for mr_pouit ?
[19:22] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
[19:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
[19:22] <charlie-tca> We hit bugs hard this last month. New bugs are down from 243 to 88
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Will start reviewing the packages this week
[19:22] <beardygnome> well done guys, excellent work
[19:23] <charlie-tca> Testing is a bit behind, since the alternate images were bad during the holidays, and now the desktop images are failing to build
[19:24] <ochosi> mr_pouit: if i fix bug 686239 for bluebird in hg i assume you'll need a new release to be able to integrate it, right?
[19:24] <ochosi> i mean basically the fix is already present in greybird
[19:26] <charlie-tca> hm, lost him again?
[19:27] <ochosi> possibly
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Any questions on bugs and testing?
[19:27] <ochosi> i can ask him again later
[19:27] <charlie-tca> yup, and mr_pouit might answer yet, too
[19:27] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
[19:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
[19:28] <charlie-tca> I am guessing we don't have any update on this one yet
[19:28] <ochosi> what is planned for the website?
[19:28] <charlie-tca> update the logo and stuff to the new ones
[19:28] <charlie-tca> Possible port to wordpress
[19:29] <charlie-tca> Want to make it rock!
[19:29] <ochosi> it would be great if the first page would show the slideshow that is shown during installation
[19:29] <charlie-tca> We need to get that updated, though.
[19:29] <ochosi> or at least that would make it a bit more dynamic and descriptive
[19:29] <ochosi> sure
[19:29] <ochosi> but only after choosing default applications ;)
[19:30] <charlie-tca> picky, picky ;-)
[19:30] <ochosi> :D
[19:30] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
[19:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
[19:30] <charlie-tca> ochosi: got any updates ?
[19:30] <ochosi> yep, i started working on the default panel layout
[19:30] <ochosi> http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xfce-panel
[19:30] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xfce-panel
[19:31] <ochosi> you can see where we're heading for here
[19:31] <ochosi> i'm also testing droid as new default font
[19:31] <ochosi> i would say that we definitely should switch away from "sans"
[19:32] <ochosi> and droid is a well supported, not too large (hdd-space-wise), font
[19:32] <beardygnome> think i dropped out there but should be back now
[19:32] <charlie-tca> Great idea! This is a good release for change...
[19:32] <ochosi> elementary will stay the default icon theme for natty
[19:32] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: yes, you are
[19:32] <ochosi> it's just a lot more consistent than faenza
[19:33] <ochosi> and the possibility to get my changes upstream makes it great
[19:33] <ochosi> so upstream will also try to be xfce-complete in the future
[19:33] <ochosi> which takes a lot of work off our shoulders :)
[19:33] <ochosi> the theme has also been improved here and there
[19:33] <ochosi> i mean the gtk theme
[19:34] <ochosi> it would be great if we could switch to greybird as default theme in the next release
[19:34] <ochosi> to get better testing
[19:34] <charlie-tca> whew! you been busy too. Thanks for working so much on this
[19:34] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ^ ?
[19:34] <ochosi> no problem
[19:34] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Can we get greybird as the default theme in Natty Alpha 2?
[19:34] <ochosi> the thing i'd like to work more on is the xfwm-theme
[19:35] <ochosi> but other than that i think we're really far ahead of previous releases where artwork was a last-minute issue
[19:35] <charlie-tca> [IDEA] try to get greybird as default theme in Alpha2
[19:35] <MootBot> IDEA received:  try to get greybird as default theme in Alpha2
[19:35] <ochosi> any feedback from you people?
[19:36] <charlie-tca> I agree with that statement, ochosi. I see us as actually making good progress early enough to correct things.
[19:36] <beardygnome> i've not seen much of greybird, so would be interested in trying it out
[19:36] <ochosi> by the way: you can see droid in the screenshot of iteration3 of the above posted panel-layout wikipage
[19:36] <charlie-tca> It is a really nice theme, beardygnome
[19:37] <ochosi> the shots of iteration1 and 2 show the old "sans" font
[19:37] <beardygnome> is it available for maverick?
[19:37] <ochosi> beardygnome: sure
[19:37] <ochosi> beardygnome: download it here: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors
[19:38] <ochosi> i'm also testing it on maverick
[19:38] <ochosi> so it'll definitely work there too
[19:38] <beardygnome> ochosi: i'll try that out
[19:38] <ochosi> mr_pouit: maybe we should also test the new panel layout in alpha2
[19:38] <beardygnome> where do you want any feedback?
[19:38] <ochosi> mr_pouit: and droid :)
[19:38] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: more info on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty
[19:38] <ochosi> beardygnome: basically everywhere, i've not gotten much yet :)
[19:39] <beardygnome> ok, will check it out
[19:39] <ochosi> beardygnome: btw, you can always ping me on #xubuntu-devel or #shimmer
[19:39] <ochosi> charlie-tca: have you heard of thorwil?
[19:39] <charlie-tca> yes, he is the one helped me get the background artwork specs together
[19:39] <ochosi> he wrote me an email last year and i replied but didn't here anything back then
[19:40] <beardygnome> ochosi: we're keeping elementary for natty, so no need to test faenza, right?
[19:40] <ochosi> s/here/hear
[19:40] <charlie-tca> I will push him again, then
[19:40] <ochosi> beardygnome: exactly
[19:40] <charlie-tca> He is part of the community artwork team
[19:40] <ochosi> well, it would be good to get some news on the wallpapers
[19:40] <ochosi> i think he's leading that initiative, no?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> We have 11 wallpapers submitted now
[19:40] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Natty
[19:41] <charlie-tca> yes, thorwil and saleel
[19:41] <charlie-tca> Sorry, 11 wallpapers at [LINK] http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
[19:41] <ochosi> hm, i'm just skipping through the wallpapers
[19:41] <ochosi> nothing really final there yet
[19:41] <charlie-tca> [LINK] http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
[19:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
[19:42] <charlie-tca> No, but at least therer are some nice backgrounds there
[19:42] <ochosi> but some of them really have potential
[19:42] <ochosi> i hope the people keep working on them
[19:42] <ochosi> the color palette is a bit boring in most proposals
[19:42] <ochosi> very blue/grey
[19:42] <charlie-tca> I think we have to give them some guidance on where to go next with them
[19:43] <charlie-tca> thorwil tried to tell them to not go monochrome blue this time, but ...
[19:43] <ochosi> mhm, i read a few mails on the artwork-ml and it seems they discussed other palettes
[19:43] <ochosi> i even once posted there with a link to my current wp to show them that other palletes/colors work with the theme
[19:43] <ochosi> one more thing i'd like to discuss with you
[19:44] <ochosi> what applications shall we have in the bottom (launcher) panel by default?
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Okay, ouch
[19:44] <ochosi> you can see a few in the screenshot of iteration3
[19:44] <charlie-tca> group effort?
[19:44] <ochosi> but i'm not entirely sure whether my usage reflects the average user
[19:44] <ochosi> yeah, group effort would be nice
[19:45] <charlie-tca> [IDEA] default launchers to be used in Xubuntu Panel
[19:45] <MootBot> IDEA received:  default launchers to be used in Xubuntu Panel
[19:45] <charlie-tca> anyone got any ideas?
[19:45] <beardygnome> browser, email, terminal?
[19:45] <ochosi> beardygnome: look what might be missing here: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:panel_it3.png?id=shimmer%3Axfce-panel
[19:45] <ochosi> or even what is redundant
[19:45] <charlie-tca> settings manager, thunar, abiword, too
[19:45] <micahg> office app
[19:46] <ochosi> k, abiword is missing, good point
[19:46] <beardygnome> parole?
[19:46] <ochosi> hm, do you really open media files via parole and not via thunar?
[19:47] <beardygnome> good point
[19:47] <beardygnome> exaile?
[19:47] <ochosi> maybe exaile?
[19:47] <ochosi> hehe
[19:47] <charlie-tca> sure
[19:47] <ochosi> ok, good
[19:48] <ochosi> i guess we don't need update-manager?
[19:48] <beardygnome> gimp? mousepad?
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Let's get it together, then. We can try to get mr_pouit to stick it in alpha2, and we can juggle launchers for alpha3 if needed
[19:48] <ochosi> yeah, good idea charlie-tca
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Maybe mousepad, but I question whether gimp is used that much?
[19:48] <beardygnome> ochosi: i think update-manager is covered by having software-centre#
[19:48] <ochosi> beardygnome: hm, maybe yeah. since exaile is there maybe gimp also makes sense
[19:49] <charlie-tca> update-manager and software center are two different things.
[19:49]  * micahg thought they were going to be integrated
[19:49] <beardygnome> i'm just thinking that everyone will customise it, so why not use to to advertise our key apps
[19:49] <charlie-tca> One adds software and one updates your already there software
[19:49] <ochosi> depends on whether update-notifications in the systray will be "on" by default
[19:49] <charlie-tca> micahg: I think synaptic and software center are the same
[19:49] <ochosi> micahg: hm, maybe it's planned but definitely not implemented yet
[19:50] <beardygnome> true, i'm thinking of synaptic, which i use instead of software-centre
[19:50] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: I like that thinking
[19:50] <ochosi> micahg: at least not in the gui
[19:50] <ochosi> well, let's wait a bit with update-manager and not put it there for now
[19:50] <ochosi> there are notifications for updates most likely anyway
[19:51] <beardygnome> anyway, i think we should use the launcher to promote our key software selections
[19:51] <beardygnome> will it autohide?
[19:51] <ochosi> yes
[19:51] <ochosi> btw, that searchglass there is not catfish but appfinder
[19:51] <beardygnome> very nice
[19:51] <ochosi> (one thing we definitely have to fix in the icon-theme
[19:51] <ochosi> )
[19:51] <beardygnome> yes
[19:52] <charlie-tca>  I been using appfinder. It seems kind of nice, really
[19:52] <ochosi> yes
[19:52] <ochosi> but do we want something like catfish down there as well=
[19:52] <beardygnome> if the launcher auto hides, will it be obvious to new users?
[19:52] <beardygnome> ochosi: yes to having catfish
[19:52] <ochosi> beardygnome: yes, because it's full-sized
[19:52] <charlie-tca> I think we want appfinder there, it introduces a whole new look at applications
[19:52] <ochosi> beardygnome: it has an expanding separator on the left and on the right side
[19:53] <ochosi> beardygnome: but of course we have to test it
[19:53] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, good point
[19:53] <beardygnome> ochosi: catfish?  isn't that fairly stable?
[19:53] <charlie-tca> It should be stable, we have it for many releases already
[19:53] <beardygnome> ochosi: if the launcher autohides, it won;t be shown the screen when the new user logs in
[19:54] <beardygnome> i use catfish all the time and i've not had any issues
[19:54] <beardygnome> this topic is getting sidetracked now shall we move it to the ml?
[19:54] <ochosi> yeah, it's not an "either catfish or appfinder" but a "maybe we want both" :)
[19:55] <beardygnome> i think both
[19:55] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:55] <beardygnome> but with different icons :-)
[19:55] <ochosi> ok
[19:55] <beardygnome> i'm running low in internet credit and want to get into the docs discussion
[19:55] <ochosi> i'm on it
[19:55] <ochosi> sure
[19:56] <charlie-tca> Okay, take it to the mailing list too
[19:57] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] take the discussion about default launchers to the ML
[19:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  take the discussion about default launchers to the ML
[19:57] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Documentation
[19:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
[19:57] <beardygnome> i have reviewed a lot of branch 240 of the docs and have about 30 comments / suggestions
[19:58] <charlie-tca> Book_Em_Dano is not here, but he is working hard to get the documentation up to date for Natty, Maverick, and Lucid
[19:58] <beardygnome> where's the best place to send them?
[19:58] <ochosi> beardygnome: so the docs might be up-to-date for natty?
[19:58] <ochosi> cool!
[19:58] <charlie-tca> xubuntu-devel ML, I think, so we don't lose them
[19:59] <beardygnome> as a single mail, or as an attachment?
[19:59] <charlie-tca> Throw them into one message, and we can forward it to daniel
[19:59] <beardygnome> ok will do.
[19:59] <charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that, beardygnome
[19:59] <beardygnome> i'm about to go offline, but will hang around until i do
[19:59] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: np
[19:59] <charlie-tca> anything else on docs?
[20:00] <charlie-tca> We do still need as many people to review as possible!
[20:00] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
[20:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.2
[20:00] <charlie-tca> micahg: any updates?
[20:01] <micahg> charlie-tca: yes, the freeze for 10.04.2 is 1/20
[20:01] <charlie-tca> yipes
[20:01] <micahg> so, we have 2 weeks to get any fixes uploaded
[20:01] <charlie-tca> I guess I better get looking at the lucid bugs this week then
[20:02] <charlie-tca> That seems early with the release scheduled for Feb 17
[20:03] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseInterlock
[20:03] <charlie-tca> Thanks, micahg.
[20:03] <charlie-tca> Keep poking me for the bugs, huh?
[20:04] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
[20:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
[20:04] <micahg> charlie-tca: sure
[20:04] <charlie-tca> Community Council received a single nomination for Project Lead.
[20:05] <charlie-tca> pleia2, keep me straight now...
[20:05] <pleia2> launchpad polls are back, so if you want we can set up a simple confirmation poll
[20:05] <charlie-tca> Can we hold a vote next meeting to confirm this lead?
[20:05] <highvoltage> yay
[20:05] <pleia2> or at a meeting :)
[20:05] <charlie-tca> Which ever one is best for it?
[20:05] <pleia2> however you see fit, xubuntu is a small enough project that it doesn't have to be super formal
[20:05] <pleia2> just as long as there aren't complaints about the process
[20:06] <pleia2> if you want to do it at a meeting I'd send an email to the list prior to asking for votes if you can't make it to the meeting (I'd be happy to be the contact person for these confirmation votes)
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Let's do that, to keep it solid.
[20:07] <pleia2> great
[20:07] <charlie-tca> thank you
[20:07] <charlie-tca> and, since we are running a bit over,
[20:08] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business?
[20:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business?
[20:09] <charlie-tca> There being no other business, we will meet again on January 13 at 19:00 UTC.
[20:09] <charlie-tca> Thank you all for attending.
[20:09] <charlie-tca> #endmeeting
[20:09] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:09.
[20:14] <charlie-tca> I think meetings past about an hour get too long to keep people