[01:36] <ShootEmUp> Hello Everyone!
[01:37] <ChrisDruif> Hai ShootEmUp :)
[01:37] <ShootEmUp> whats up ChirsDruif?
[01:38] <ChrisDruif> nm :)
[01:41] <stlsaint> ShootEmUp: like in the movie shootemup??
[01:42] <ShootEmUp> kinda just a referance to shootemup style games
[01:42] <stlsaint> oh
[01:42] <stlsaint> like Cod?
[01:42] <ShootEmUp> my fav games
[01:42] <ShootEmUp> yup
[01:42] <ShootEmUp> I also like RTS's, like CnC
[01:43] <stlsaint> ShootEmUp: PS3?
[01:43] <ShootEmUp> nope, PC and Wii
[01:43] <stlsaint> BOOOOO!!!
[01:43] <ChrisDruif> Wii?
[01:43] <ShootEmUp> the Wii is not that bad
[01:44] <ShootEmUp> It's a good chep system
[01:44] <ChrisDruif> ShootEmUp: Then you haven't tried Kinect yet ;)
[01:44] <ShootEmUp> BOOOOO!
[01:45] <ChrisDruif> Listen: I don't like Microsoft one bit, but that Kinect works pretty good. And so does their Office-Suite I'm afraid to say...
[01:46] <ShootEmUp> It's not that I hate microsoft, it that Kinect is too little, to late to take on the Wii
[01:47] <ChrisDruif> That's what you think ;)
[01:47] <ChrisDruif> I prefer it over Wii :)
[01:47] <ShootEmUp> is it out selling the Wii? I don't think so
[01:48] <ShootEmUp> I wouldn't mind having one
[01:48] <ShootEmUp> but again, too little, to late
[01:49] <ShootEmUp> don't even get me started on the Playstation move
[01:49] <ChrisDruif> I won't :)
[01:49] <ShootEmUp> good
[01:50] <ShootEmUp> If I had the cash I would buy me a Xbox360
[01:50] <ChrisDruif> Haven't tried that, nor would I think I will ever like it above the Kinect :)
[01:50] <stlsaint> im buying one next week ;)
[01:51] <ShootEmUp> xbox?
[01:52] <stlsaint> yep
[01:52] <ShootEmUp> cool, I've hered good things about it
[01:56] <ShootEmUp> stlsaint, black ops is a good game if you like shootemup (pun intended!) games
[01:56] <stlsaint> ShootEmUp: i hate black ops, i only play the gun game for wager matches and ZOMBIES!!
[01:56] <stlsaint> i play zombies everyday!!
[01:57] <ShootEmUp> *GASP*
[01:57] <ShootEmUp> black ops on the Wii is epic!
[01:57] <ShootEmUp> single player is crap, but online rocks!
[02:13] <Unguided> hello all. Does anyone have ubuntu setup in their home theater and if so how does it for you?
[02:14] <Unguided> I meant work for you?
[02:15] <holstein> i have a HTPC setup
[02:15] <holstein> really just a computer on the TV
[02:16] <holstein> not doing much else with it
[02:16] <holstein> works great
[02:16] <Unguided> I understand. I currently have windows 7 but I am having problems with display resolution. R u using mythbuntu or ubuntu
[02:17] <holstein> im not using any of the myth packages
[02:18] <Unguided> r u recording tv with it or no?
[02:18] <holstein> nah
[02:18] <holstein> i have an ancient cable card
[02:18] <holstein> i set up an XP box to use with it
[02:18] <holstein> its windows only
[02:18] <holstein> not sure if im going to keep that or not
[02:18] <holstein> i was trying to make a DVR out of what i had laying around
[02:19] <holstein> free-VR :)
[02:20] <Unguided> Thats what im trying to do but u get screwed by the cable companies and m$. cant record with the new cable card standard & that is all my cable provider uses
[02:20] <holstein> drag
[02:20] <holstein> thats what i was hoping to do next
[02:20] <holstein> get a different card
[02:21] <Unguided> brb
[02:26] <Unguided> Holstein: sorry. I just put my htpc back in the entetainemtn center & it gave me an overheating alarm
[02:27] <egossett> hi
[02:27] <Unguided> hello
[02:29] <egossett> I just installed the xchat. so proud of myself
[02:29]  * st33med applauds
[02:29] <egossett> joined  9 groups - I know i will lurk on most. this is the one i really need
[02:30] <egossett> o and the loco group
[02:31] <Unguided> does anyone have experience with wubi. good way to try ubuntu
[02:31] <holstein> i think wubi is great
[02:31] <aveilleux> Noooo
[02:31] <aveilleux> Wubi is the worst way to try Ubuntu
[02:32] <egossett> i am so sick of windows i did not want to try it that way
[02:34] <Unguided> i am still learning ubuntu as in really newb. I was hoping to be able to use it without trashing a system. if i screw it up just reinstall
[02:35] <Unguided> what do u recommend aveilleus?
[02:37] <aveilleux> Dual-boot.
[02:39] <Unguided> ok. what about a VM using vbox?
[02:40] <Unguided> why dual boot vs other options is what i am getting at?
[02:43] <holstein> sorry, i was on the phone
[02:43] <holstein> the good thing about wubi is you can uninstall it like a program from windows
[02:43] <holstein> IF changing your drive is scary for you for some reason
[02:44] <aveilleux> Dual booting gives you the ability to run on your native hardware, without any weird setup like wubi, and it's totally reversible and nondestructive.
[02:44] <holstein> and the newer boxes dont usually come with acutal windows install disks
[02:44] <holstein> so reverting to a windows only box can be challening
[02:44] <aveilleux> No
[02:44] <aveilleux> not at all
[02:45] <holstein> you run fixmbr from?
[02:45] <aveilleux> Nothing.
[02:45] <aveilleux> You just remove the Windows partition and tell GRUB to boot right into Windows. It's not hard to do from the LiveCD
[02:45] <holstein> right
[02:45] <holstein> then you have grub booting windows
[02:45] <holstein> thats not fully reverted
[02:46] <aveilleux> Does it matter?
[02:46] <holstein> well, it might to Unguided
[02:47] <holstein> i feel like in the spirit of full disclosure
[02:47] <nhandler> aveilleux: Dual Booting also (usually) requires shrinking the windows partition and creating a new partition for Ubuntu (which can result in problems if not done right)
[02:47] <holstein> grub should be read about
[02:47] <holstein> and discussed
[02:47] <nit-wit> holstein, they called me a troll on the ##windows chanel I think I ginna cry.:)
[02:47] <holstein> what exactly is happening to the drive
[02:47] <nit-wit> *gonna
[02:47] <holstein> nit-wit: ;)
[02:47] <aveilleux> nhandler: The partitioner does it automatically
[02:48] <nit-wit> holstein, they had never heard of lilo.lol
[02:48] <holstein> you could in theory not have access to a windows recovery partition
[02:48] <nhandler> aveilleux: Yes (now it does). It still has its risks though
[02:48] <aveilleux> holstein: ...who has recovery partitions anymore?
[02:49] <holstein> aveilleux: everyone
[02:49] <stlsaint> aveilleux: um, all modern windows laptops!
[02:49] <holstein> they dont make CD's anymore
[02:49] <holstein> recovery discs
[02:49] <aveilleux> That's stupid.
[02:49] <holstein> agreed
[02:49] <holstein> BUT still, something to be aware of
[02:49] <nhandler> Most companies will send you a disk to re-install windows for free if you ask
[02:50] <holstein> nhandler: ive gotten them from acer and HP before
[02:50] <holstein> for free
[02:50] <stlsaint> or you can make the one time recover disk set within windows (vista and above)
[02:50] <Unguided> I have a laptop that I rebuilt from the ground up so no recovery partition etc. i just wanted to "play' while learning before rolling it out to a computer in the house. If i screw up I canjust uninstall and start over. no harm no foul.
[02:50] <holstein> Unguided: if you have a windows CD
[02:51] <holstein> and your data is backed up
[02:51] <holstein> have fun :)
[02:51] <holstein> dual boot
[02:51] <holstein> no dought thats the way to go over wubi if you're comfortable with the process
[02:51] <holstein> and the risks
[02:53] <egossett> the answer for ME was - since i have 3 computers at home. Use one to learn Ubuntu, it has taken me several years in between working and playing silly games. to finally get it. I bought the Ubuntu magazines every 6 months and tried with the newest version then i bought the Ubuntu bible for 8.04 and now i got 10.04
[02:53] <Unguided> Im okay with that. I just didnt want to rebuild the laptop from scratch just yet but still wanted to work with the system. There is a lot to leran with a whole new OS and thought with wubi i would at least have something to fall back on
[02:54] <egossett> I agree Unguided
[02:55] <egossett> the whole network thing is getting me now. once i get that - i can switch all 3 computers. but i also want to do cloud computing
[02:55] <holstein> egossett: samba?
[02:55] <egossett> o really?
[02:55] <JackyAlcine> o//
[02:56] <egossett> what is samba?
[02:56] <holstein> oh, i thought maybe that was the networking woes you were having
[02:56] <egossett> checking the ubuntu tweak now
[02:56] <holstein> samba is how we would communicate with windows shares
[02:56] <JackyAlcine> egossett: Samba's file sharing
[02:56] <Unguided> I just bought ubuntu unleashed 2011 edition. So i am learning how to install pitfalls etc. I havent been this excited about learning in a long time. I used to work for an IT department at a hospital but they were al windows machines. I guess i am just being cautious. Nothing like hosing a perfectly great system b/c of the idiot user at the keyboard (me)
[02:57] <holstein> Unguided: get the live cd
[02:57] <holstein> the installer is quite clear
[02:57] <holstein> i think the alternate installer is a little more challening to read and select
[02:58] <holstein> but setting up a dual boot with the normal live CD isnt a big deal really
[02:58] <Unguided> okay.
[02:59] <egossett> a lot same up with the samba search, file share and network admin. I will look at this
[02:59] <egossett> thank you
[03:00] <egossett> i did the live cd for knoppix, suse,
[03:00] <egossett> and some others.
[03:00] <holstein> ah, cool
[03:00] <holstein> knoppix is fast and handy
[03:00] <egossett> installed fedora and it crashed several times went back to ubuntu
[03:00] <holstein> i like the suse studio
[03:01] <holstein> i hope we see something like that for ubuntu soon
[03:01] <egossett> that was over 1 yr ago
[03:01] <egossett> i always came back to ubuntu and now the 10.04 seems best for me for now
[03:02] <egossett> really awesome indeed
[03:02] <holstein> yeah, ubuntu is usually the go-to for a 'just works' system
[03:02] <JackyAlcine> right you are, egossett, although i like my maverick.
[03:02] <holstein> the maverick installer is pretty nice
[03:03] <holstein> i liked the way the files were already copying while i was answering the keyboard layout questions and whatnot
[03:03]  * ianto just erased Maverik in place for Gentoo but he's gotta admit that the Maverik installer was really good
[03:03] <egossett> i had that too. but decided to go with this LTS so i can really learn - as Unguided said there is so much to learn
[03:03] <JackyAlcine> That's something Windows doesn't have :D
[03:03] <JackyAlcine> ianto, you do C++ or C?
[03:04] <ianto> JackyAlcine: C
[03:04] <egossett> yes maverick was good. somehow i ruined it. and had to reinstall. but i have made a backup of my 10.04 already - to usb
[03:04] <JackyAlcine> Can you tell me the major differences between the two, especially in C?
[03:04]  * JackyAlcine is a C++ guy. =/
[03:04] <egossett> sorry Jacky i am not able to tell you difference. to newb
[03:05] <egossett> no IT - I am self taught
[03:06] <ianto> JackyAlcine: I'm not really sure about how to answer that to be honest, perhaps a search for "C C++ Comparison" on Google might help (I have no X server atm)
[03:06] <JackyAlcine> o.o! I can't run a console-based system; I'm too scared.
[03:07] <JackyAlcine> I mean, I know how to, and I've done, but >_<
[03:07] <holstein> ianto: you're on a command line only box?
[03:07] <holstein> you do wifi on there?
[03:08] <holstein> i was looking at wicd-curses
[03:08] <Unguided> holstein: i agree with you. the suse studio looks sweet. i hope there is a studio for ubuntu soon. that would be awesome
[03:08] <ianto> holstein: Yeah I can do wifi on here, connecting to q WEP or unsecure network is easy through command line but I get stick with wpa networks ;)
[03:08] <ianto> *stuck
[03:09] <holstein> cool
[03:09] <Unguided> holstein: im dyslexic. do u know of nay free video training programs? it would really help me get up to speed quickly
[03:10] <Unguided> *any
[03:10]  * ianto has just CLI on his laptop so that he can just open it up, open up vim, write code and then feed it through gcc
[03:11] <holstein> i wanted a CLI on my EEE
[03:11] <holstein> for the speed
[03:11] <holstein> and for me to learn
[03:11] <egossett> holstein: do you think i should install gdmin-samba (i want to create network for 3 computers, wifi for two laptops and vpn on all three computers).
[03:12] <egossett> *gadmin-samba
[03:12] <holstein> sure
[03:12] <holstein> there were a couple of apps that make life easier
[03:12] <holstein> that i used in the past
[03:12] <holstein> and i forget the particulars
[03:13] <holstein> egossett: i would fire up synaptic
[03:13] <holstein> and search samba
[03:13] <egossett> ok
[03:13] <egossett> thanks
[03:13] <holstein> and you can probably get a good idea of what would be helpful
[03:13] <holstein> from the descriptions
[03:13] <holstein> egossett: setting up permissions is usually the only tricky bit
[03:14] <egossett> yes it is. I am so confused with that - must learn
[03:14] <egossett> hahahaha
[03:14] <holstein> i did get a nice funcional printing situation going on at home
[03:15] <holstein> from linux to windows
[03:15] <holstein> and at a church
[03:15] <holstein> from windows to linux
[03:15] <holstein> so i know its possible
[03:15] <holstein> it was fiddly
[03:15] <holstein> this was a couple years ago though
[03:15] <holstein> im sure its easier now
[03:31] <Unguided> holstein: how does network boot work in ubuntu? if the client is diskless does it boot an image from the host?
[03:32] <holstein> Unguided: i still havent really worked all of that out
[03:32] <holstein> im not sure how dependant on hardware you are with that
[03:32] <holstein> maybe you can make a live CD
[03:32] <holstein> or floppy
[03:33] <holstein> that just goes looking on the network for the OS
[03:33] <holstein> Unguided: but yeah, you just have the disk image hosted somewhere
[03:34] <Unguided> I was referring to how linuxmce works. I set up the server and let the client boot diskless and it worked great but didnt understand what was happening in the background
[03:34] <holstein> AH cool
[03:34] <holstein> so you're ahead of me on that then :)
[03:35] <holstein> Unguided: where did you have the OS disk ?
[03:36] <Unguided> the OS loads on the server. I just set the client to boot from the network. the client found the server and booted right up. it looked just like the servers screen etc. they dont use client/server they use another term but essentially the same thing
[03:37] <holstein> PXE boot?
[03:37] <holstein> on the client?
[03:37] <Unguided> yes.
[03:38] <Unguided> check out linuxmce.org it is based on ubuntu but i believe they are a few versions behind
[03:38] <holstein> i had a hard time finding the image
[03:38] <holstein> when i was looking probably last year sometime
[03:39] <Unguided> you mean for linuxmce or in general?
[03:39] <holstein> AH
[03:39] <holstein> http://linuxmce.iptp.org/snapshots/
[03:39] <holstein> heres some
[03:39] <holstein> i think that page was down when i was looking last
[03:41] <egossett> well I installed samba and need to do the backup but i will return another time to chat with all. Unguided hope you find solutions comfortable for you You are gonna love ubuntu  i know i do.
[03:44] <Unguided> thanks egossett. i believe i will also. i just checked it is still is down but the snapshots is what i found. check out the gallery and then video. the only thing i didnt necessarily like was the fact that the server took over everything. dhcp, router, etc. at that time i barely knew what linux was let alone anything else
[03:47] <holstein> Unguided: i remember being a little daunted by the setup, and thinking it was overkill for what i wanted
[03:49] <Unguided> yeah. i thought the same thing. i didnt liek some of the other things either like the home theater receiver had to use ir emitters or be serial controlled. i dont have a receiveer with a serial port on it
[03:49] <Unguided> *like
[03:49] <Unguided> darn i have suasages for fingers
[03:49] <Unguided> *sausages
[03:51] <holstein> hehe
[03:51] <Unguided> I know the developers work really hard to get the software out but they are still at version 8.10
[03:54] <Unguided> They even incorporate mythtv. I think if the mythbuntu guys got with linuxmce guys they could make a distro that would rock anything else out on there
[03:55] <Unguided> for home theater applications
[04:00] <Unguided> holstein: how does remote access work in linux? is it the same as remote desktop for windows?
[04:00] <holstein> Unguided: what is the goal?
[04:01] <holstein> i think you'll find the same funcionality
[04:01] <holstein> if not more
[04:01] <holstein> just different ways to do things
[04:01] <holstein> VNC is a way to control the desktop remotely
[04:01] <holstein> most use SSH though
[04:01] <Unguided> i will sit with my laptop, log in to systems in the house and deploy new software, run updates, fix comuters etc.
[04:01] <holstein> yeah, you can so that with SSH
[04:02] <holstein> do*
[04:02] <holstein> im running this chat session on a server
[04:02] <holstein> i connect via SSH
[04:03] <Unguided> okay. sounds like i still need to read more. did you have any suggestions on free training videos for ubuntu. i would get up to speed really quickly
[04:03] <holstein> Unguided: i dont
[04:03] <holstein> but there are tons of guides
[04:03] <holstein> if you need something, you can always ask her
[04:03] <holstein> e
[04:03] <holstein> or google ubuntuwiki sshserver
[04:03] <holstein> or whatever
[04:04] <holstein> SO many wiki pages
[04:04] <holstein> and a guy of your skills is going to have no trouble falling in
[04:06] <Unguided> kewl. i appreciate your help.
[04:06] <holstein> anytime
[04:08] <Unguided> i just installed a wifi enabled programmable thermostat in the house yesterday. now i can control the heat from my smartphone.
[04:08] <holstein> cool
[04:09] <holstein> my pop had an x10 rig
[04:09] <holstein> years ago
[04:09] <holstein> the software was on several floppies
[04:09] <holstein> windows 95 i think
[04:09] <holstein> worked great
[04:09] <holstein> little remote control units to turn the heat up
[04:10] <holstein> and the lights off and on
[04:10] <holstein> timers
[04:18] <Unguided> yeah. i log in to the web portal and set eveything up there
[04:19] <holstein> you had to hook this up
[04:19] <holstein> the brain
[04:19] <holstein> serial connection
[04:19] <holstein> and edit the config
[04:19] <holstein> cool for 15 years ago
[04:20] <nit-wit> holstein, you a fan of bill laswell
[04:21] <Unguided> yeah. this thing has the ability to have two radios so u can use home automation software etc
[04:21] <holstein> nit-wit: im not totally hip to him
[04:21] <Unguided> same price as the other programmable thermostats
[04:21] <holstein> im sure ive heard him
[04:22] <nit-wit> holstein, the brain reference, one of the drummers that plays for him made me wonder
[04:22] <holstein> hehe
[04:22] <nit-wit> holstein, you want a link to something
[04:22] <holstein> nit-wit: sure
[04:22] <nit-wit> hold a second
[04:23] <shawn146_> i
[04:23] <shawn146_> hi
[04:23] <shawn146_> how are you holstein
[04:24] <nit-wit> holstein, this was from a PBS special that had from bootsy collins to bucket head to some othere biggies check out who is playing the tablas.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQa6hSzUWQ
[04:25] <holstein> shawn146_: im good, and you?
[04:25] <shawn146_> somewhat good
[04:25] <shawn146_> dad got a new keyboard
[04:25] <shawn146_> i can doa  lot more lol
[04:25] <nit-wit> holstein, bill is the dub king this is a sort of off shoot from his regular activities.
[04:25] <shawn146_> but now i want to try to get linux working on my jornada
[04:26] <shawn146_> i do not want to miss another day or night
[04:28] <shawn146_> could you help me?
[04:29] <holstein> nit-wit: i dont recognize the tabla player
[04:29] <holstein> ?
[04:30] <AbhiJit> hello
[04:30] <holstein> shawn146_: did you prepare that CF card?
[04:30] <nit-wit> holstein, akbar forget the last name one of the best in gthe world
[04:30] <holstein> i think thats your best bet
[04:30] <holstein> nit-wit: cool :)
[04:30] <shawn146_> not yet
[04:30] <holstein> i like it
[04:30] <shawn146_> here one sec
[04:30] <holstein> shawn146_: i would say after you do that, and it fails
[04:30] <shawn146_> i actually got someones attention in #jlime lol
[04:30] <holstein> IF it fails
[04:30] <shawn146_> i am going to talk to him for a bit
[04:30] <nit-wit> holstein, Pharaoh Sanders was in this broad cast as well
[04:31] <holstein> its time to put that thing to good use
[04:31] <holstein> as a paperweight or something
[04:34] <nit-wit> holstein, ZAKIR HUSSAIN  is the percussionist. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As1OMMcHXFs
[04:35] <nit-wit> scarry player
[04:35] <AbhiJit> ??
[04:35] <AbhiJit> he is great player
[04:35] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, I agree one of the best and so was his father
[04:35] <AbhiJit> yah
[04:36] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, do you play some music instrument?
[04:36] <holstein> nit-wit: nice
[04:36] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, are you indian
[04:36] <holstein> i like how effortless tabla seems
[04:36] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, ofcourse!
[04:36] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, i play violine!!!!
[04:36] <nit-wit> cool
[04:36] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, you?
[04:36] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, American but a Jazz musician
[04:37] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, nice to hear that
[04:37] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, have you heard any of holstein
[04:37] <AbhiJit> no
[04:37] <AbhiJit> what is that?
[04:37] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, he is on this page
[04:37] <holstein> hehe
[04:38] <holstein> you'd have to really want it to find me
[04:38] <AbhiJit> holstein, ??
[04:38] <nit-wit> holstein, give us another link you master bass player you:)
[04:38] <holstein> hmmm
[04:38] <AbhiJit> holstein, 'what' are you? or who are you? :p
[04:38] <AbhiJit> holstein, you are a musician too?
[04:38] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, he is a great player.:)
[04:39] <AbhiJit> ok
[04:39] <AbhiJit> holstein, nice to meet you too. which instu you play?
[04:39] <nit-wit> holstein, I have the chick cover saved should I post it
[04:39] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, sure!
[04:39] <AbhiJit> :P
[04:40] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, I think they are looking for something to post
[04:40] <AbhiJit> nit-wit, they?
[04:41] <nit-wit> the person we are talking to I referenced
[04:41] <AbhiJit> ohh
[04:41]  * AbhiJit waits
[04:41] <holstein> http://vimeo.com/13482653
[04:41] <AbhiJit> ok
[04:41] <nit-wit> holstein, thakns.:)
[04:42] <AbhiJit> holstein, you are the one on piano or cello?
[04:42] <holstein> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RnThpo0Atk
[04:42] <holstein> ^^ i like youtube better
[04:43] <holstein> seems lighter on resources
[04:43] <holstein> AbhiJit: bass
[04:43] <AbhiJit> holstein, bass means that big instru looks like violine?
[04:43] <AbhiJit> i dont know their proper names
[04:44] <nit-wit> holstein, watch out John Patitucci
[04:44] <holstein> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RnThpo0Atk#t=2m50s
[04:44] <holstein> nit-wit: hehe
[04:44] <AbhiJit> oyeeee
[04:44] <AbhiJit> whos who?
[04:45] <AbhiJit> i dont know what bass means?
[04:45] <AbhiJit> holstein, ??
[04:45] <nit-wit> AbhiJit, its the stringed thing the enormous violin
[04:45] <holstein> AbhiJit: bass viol
[04:45] <AbhiJit> i can only see one piano and one cello
[04:45] <AbhiJit> ohh its called viola?
[04:45] <AbhiJit> ok
[04:46] <holstein> viol da gamba
[04:46] <holstein> cello is smaller
[04:46] <holstein> tuned in 5ths
[04:46] <AbhiJit> hmm
[04:46] <AbhiJit> i see
[04:46] <holstein> and part of the violin family
[04:46] <AbhiJit> i only familiar with violine!
[04:46] <holstein> you play them seated
[04:46] <AbhiJit> yeah
[04:46] <holstein> you can play bass seated too
[04:46] <AbhiJit> both way
[04:46] <AbhiJit> i see
[04:46] <holstein> but you cant really stand with a cello
[04:47] <holstein> AbhiJit: so you play sitting down
[04:47] <holstein> with the top of the violine on your knee?
[04:47] <AbhiJit> holstein, no. i mean i can play both way sitting down and standing. as per my mood and songs mood!!!
[04:47] <AbhiJit> :)
[04:47] <AbhiJit> holstein, you are from which country?
[04:47] <holstein> US
[04:47] <AbhiJit> holstein, i learned 1st the sitting method then standing
[04:48] <AbhiJit> ok
[04:48] <nit-wit> holstein, sorry for outing you.:)
[04:48] <holstein> nit-wit: nah, thanks :)
[04:48] <holstein> im horrible at self promotion
[04:48] <nit-wit> holstein, I had a person on the ##windows channel yesterday asking if a add9 was the same as a f9
[04:49] <Unguided> very nice holstein. you sounded great
[04:49] <holstein> Unguided: thanks
[04:49]  * holstein bows :)
[04:49] <nit-wit> *smattering of applause
[04:49] <holstein> nit-wit: thats a challenging one to deal with
[04:49] <holstein> i usually say add2
[04:49] <holstein> if i dont want the 7
[04:49] <holstein> just to try and be more clear
[04:49] <AbhiJit> holstein, hey i like that video its cool
[04:49] <AbhiJit> :)
[04:50] <nit-wit> holstein, they new the differnce between a +9 or-9 so it was easy
[04:50] <holstein> nice tune right?
[04:50] <holstein> thats the piano players piece
[04:50] <holstein> suzy's walts
[04:50] <holstein> i think
[04:50] <nit-wit> holstein, very nice
[04:50] <AbhiJit> yeah
[04:51] <Unguided> I think this is the first time i have talked with someone famous and has brains too. thats awesome.
[04:52] <holstein> famous?
[04:52] <AbhiJit> :P
[04:52] <holstein> ;)
[04:52] <Unguided> you define it how you want. dont bust my bubble now
[04:52] <holstein> hehe
[04:53] <nit-wit> I play the fretles bass but never even tried the upright. My fretless has the lines where I jerked the frets
[04:54] <holstein> i think its easier
[04:54] <holstein> the action can be challenging
[04:54] <holstein> when switching over
[04:54] <nit-wit> holstein, it may be I need to see the lines
[04:54] <holstein> something about it acutally standing up feels more natural to me
[04:54] <holstein> eh, you'd get used to not having the lines prolly
[04:55] <nit-wit> holstein, you don't have the action all that low I have mine set really low
[04:55] <AbhiJit> i wish to learn harmonica. but cant find proper onbline guideline
[04:55] <holstein> yeah, my action is kinda high
[04:55] <holstein> compared to most
[04:55] <holstein> i like it
[04:55] <holstein> more volume acoustically
[04:55] <nit-wit> holstein, do you play wiyhout a pickup always
[04:55] <holstein> nit-wit: whenever i can get away with it
[04:56] <holstein> only certain drummer can do it
[04:56] <nit-wit> holstein, that is the best sound
[04:56] <holstein> 2 guys down here really can handle it
[04:56] <holstein> and a couple guys i play with up in NYC
[04:56] <holstein> up there, the venues are tight and small
[04:57] <nit-wit> holstein, my friend Ben wolfe does as well
[04:57] <holstein> i think the drummers learn how to do it
[04:57] <holstein> whisper jazz
[04:57] <holstein> nit-wit: yeah
[04:57] <holstein> ben has a great sound
[04:57] <holstein> i remember his tone really influencing me
[04:57] <holstein> early on
[04:57] <holstein> when i was trying to find a voice
[04:57] <nit-wit> holstein, I know him mainly from college and the scene.
[04:58] <holstein> nit-wit: you should get an upright
[04:58] <nit-wit> holstein, I saw him about a year ago alomost perfectly in tune quite amazing really
[04:58] <holstein> and hang with him for a bit
[04:59] <nit-wit> holstein, I don't play right now just a college student, black studies major though
[04:59] <holstein> *we dont have frets, so we're always perfectly in tune :)
[04:59] <nit-wit> holstein, to many fans I just said hello
[04:59] <nit-wit> holstein, have you hear Phill Baker
[04:59] <nit-wit> &phil
[05:00] <holstein> http://www.philbakermusic.com/
[05:00] <holstein> ?
[05:00] <holstein> i dont think so
[05:03] <nit-wit> holstein, he is a local port ore player play with pink martitni, played with diana ross as well a monster upright player as well
[05:03] <nit-wit> trying to find a link I bought my bass from him
[05:05] <Unguided> holstein: the cd you dowload from ubuntu.com is the live cd right/
[05:06] <nit-wit> holstein, here is Phil with Pink Martini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVyqoHTpJk4
[05:06] <holstein> Unguided: yeah, but you'll know how to use the alternate CD too
[05:06] <holstein> the live isntaller is easier i think
[05:07] <holstein> the alternate has more options
[05:07] <Unguided> okay. i think im going to use wubi for now. dont have to re partition and that. can play yet tongiht.
[05:08] <holstein> Unguided: the thing about those wubi's is how totally undo-able they are
[05:08] <holstein> why not, right?
[05:08] <holstein> you can always just play around there, and install whenever you want
[05:09] <holstein> moving that install from the wubi to a partition is challenging though
[05:09] <holstein> and id want to do a fresh install
[05:09] <holstein> nit-wit: i like that string section
[05:10] <holstein> thats a nice gig :)
[05:10] <Unguided> right. i would take down the laptop, repartition and do a fresh install with a dual boot
[05:10] <aveilleux> Hey, someone with a vanilla install of Ubuntu. Go to System > Preferences > Main Menu, then find the menu entry for Administration > Network. Double-click on that, then tell me what's in the "Command" box.
[05:10] <holstein> aveilleux: 10.04 ok?
[05:10] <aveilleux> holstein, Good enough
[05:11] <nit-wit> holstein, Pink Martini is quite good I don't really listen much. You can hear Phils intonation in that first part.
[05:11] <holstein> aveilleux: ive got 'network tools'
[05:12] <aveilleux> holstein, Ssssure close enough I guess.
[05:12] <holstein> aveilleux: gnome-nettool
[05:13] <aveilleux> Hrm, that doesn't sound right
[05:13] <aveilleux> thanks anyway, holstein
[05:13] <aveilleux> I'll continue my google trawl
[05:13] <holstein> aveilleux: maybe its different in 10.10
[05:14] <holstein> or something you installed?
[05:14] <nit-wit> holstein, good strings very good. the leader Thomas Laudedale funded another bands latest album a friend of mine instrumental surf music Satans Pilgrims, really good palyers sounds like Duane Eddy and some of the major surf players 3 guitars
[05:14] <aveilleux> holstein, I'm looking for a specific tool I used a long time ago
[05:14] <holstein> maybe a network browser for samba
[05:14] <holstein> nit-wit: interesting
[05:15] <holstein> satans pilgrims ;) thats a good name
[05:17] <nit-wit> holstein, the pilgrims the albums are better, but it is interesting stuff my friend is the bass player.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGvXRkqym60
[05:18] <nit-wit> holstein, they have a cult following they are actually well known
[05:22] <holstein> nit-wit: hehe... fun
[05:23] <nit-wit> holstein, I like all kinds of music
[05:23] <holstein> me too
[05:23] <holstein> alright.. im going to turn in
[05:23] <holstein> suppose to get a crazy snow storm here tonite
[05:23] <holstein> we'll see
[05:23] <holstein> GN all
[05:24] <nit-wit> holstein, when I was younger if you can imagine my ego bigger:) I was a snob, I didn't have a clue, and barely do now, lol
[05:25] <nit-wit> holstein, have a good sleep in the voice of Boris Karloff
[05:31]  * JackyAlcine is pushing a mailing list update to SpeechControl regarding openMary.
[05:35]  * JackyAlcine has sent a message to SpeechControl's developers. Please check your email.
[05:53] <Unguided> holstein: r u still online
[05:54] <Unguided> check it out: Unguided on ubuntu using wubi. WOOHOO!!
[05:56] <Unguided> Come on guys. This is the first time using ubuntu
[05:58] <JackyAlcine> :D
[05:58] <JackyAlcine> Hey Unguided
[05:58] <JackyAlcine> Good job!
[05:59] <Unguided> Damn Im excited. Now I have something that i can feel touch and break etc.
[06:00] <JackyAlcine> Lol, ;D
[06:01] <JackyAlcine> Unguided: have fun, it's best to mention that back up software like Back In Time or Deja Dup would be useful.
[06:01] <Unguided> Okay. hey can you install a gui on ubuntu server.
[06:01] <Daniel0108> yes, you can
[06:02] <Daniel0108> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[06:02] <Daniel0108> I think :P
[06:02] <JoeMaverickSett> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop is the right one! :)
[06:03] <Unguided> okay. can i configure the server after desktop install
[06:03] <JackyAlcine> YUP
[06:03] <Unguided> i meant using the desktop instead of the command line
[06:03] <Daniel0108> yes
[06:04] <Unguided> swwweeet!!
[06:05] <nit-wit> Unguided, if you decide to dual boot I can give you a link for transferring the wubi to a partition if you like.
[06:06] <Unguided> yeah that would be great thanks
[06:06] <nit-wit> Unguided, here you go. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1519354
[06:09] <Unguided> sweet thanks. Now off to bed. its 1:00 AM and im tired. GN all
[06:09] <Daniel0108> GN :)
[06:23] <Daniel0108> BYE :) gtg, sorry ;) see ya :D
[06:40] <jermza> Anyone know anything about Nautilus settings?
[06:43] <jermza> Like, the button bar, for example.
[06:44] <MrAnthrope> What about it?
[06:44] <JackyAlcine> ?
[06:45] <jermza> I installed Nautilus Elementary, but had some hassles, so found a Terminal command that reverted Nautilus to its original state. But, now, in Nautilus, the button bar isn't buttons like it was before.
[06:47] <MrAnthrope> I use elementary.
[06:47] <jermza> This is what the button bar looked like: http://www.rebelzero.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lucid_nautilus_button_mode-500x103.png
[06:48] <MrAnthrope> When you say button bar, you mean back, forward, stop reload et c? or /adam/Desktop
[06:48] <MrAnthrope> Or everything?
[06:49] <jermza> No, not "back", "forward", etc
[06:50] <jermza> Just the buttons of your location
[06:50] <MrAnthrope> Make your window active and do CTRL+L on your keyboard.
[06:50] <MrAnthrope> Is that what you mean, it's different?
[06:50] <jermza> As per the link (graphic) above
[06:50] <JoeMaverickSett> so, you're saying you can't click on them? jermza
[06:51] <JackyAlcine> The breadcrumb you mean jermza
[06:52] <jermza> Now my button bar looks more like this: http://lh3.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/S-XWvj0HT0I/AAAAAAAAA-Q/VLJ19xWQG3E/Desk%201_011.png
[06:52] <jermza> I think it's a "text" mode (?).
[06:54] <supersnail> hello, I just installed ubuntu and need some help
[06:54] <supersnail> I'm new to Linux in general
[06:54] <MrAnthrope> Anything in particular, supersnail?
[06:55] <supersnail> When I reboot it goes to the Grub command
[06:55] <supersnail> well actually before that I can choose Windows 7 or Ubuntu
[06:56] <supersnail> and if I choose Ubuntu there are 3 OS to boot, Windows 7 and 2 forms of Winodws Vista
[06:56] <supersnail> but not Ubuntu
[06:56] <supersnail> I can ESC to the Grub command prompt from there
[06:57] <JackyAlcine> Are you running wubi?
[06:57] <JackyAlcine> ^^ supersnail
[06:57] <supersnail> i don't know
[06:57] <MrAnthrope> So are you trying to triple boot?
[06:57] <MrAnthrope> Ubuntu, Win7, and Vista?
[06:58] <supersnail> Vista is recovery, I want to only boot Ubuntu but it's not an automatic option
[06:58] <MrAnthrope> More to the point, we're trying to figure out how you installed Ubuntu.
[06:58] <supersnail> the windows installer
[06:59] <MrAnthrope> Ah, that's wubi isn't it? I have no experience with wubi.
[06:59] <jermza> seemed to have been logged out for a moment
[07:00] <supersnail> then yes, I used wubi
[07:00] <MrAnthrope> JackyAlcine does that sound like wubi?
[07:04] <JackyAlcine> Kinda.
[07:04] <JackyAlcine> Like if he has to go to two boot loader screens; the first being Windows and Ubuntu in the *Windows* bootloader; then it's Windows.
[07:06] <supersnail> yes i have been seeing 2 boot loader screen
[07:06] <supersnail> s
[07:12] <supersnail> Used wubi to install ubuntu, installation was fine, when computer starts 2 options: windows 7 or ubuntu, when I choose ubuntu there's another boot menu with 3 options: windows 7, vista and vista (which are recovery), there's no way to choose ubuntu as the os to load
[07:14] <MrAnthrope> No idea, sorry. I'm not sure if that's normal or not.
[07:16] <nit-wit> supersnail, when did you install the wubi
[07:16] <supersnail> today
[07:16] <supersnail> a few hours ago
[07:16] <nit-wit> super did it ever boot to Ubuntu
[07:16] <supersnail> i haven't seen the interface, it finished installing
[07:17] <nit-wit> supersnail, so in other words t has never booted to Ubuntu?
[07:17] <nit-wit> *it
[07:17] <supersnail> no
[07:18] <shawn146_> how come i am getting bash: cd: lib: Permission denied ?
[07:19] <nit-wit> supersnail, did you build any partitions or put wubi in a partiton other then C
[07:19] <shawn146_> is their a way toa ccess it?
[07:19] <shawn146_> *access
[07:19] <supersnail> no, I put wubi in C
[07:21] <shawn146_> holstein ?....anyone?
[07:21] <shawn146_> i don't have much longer
[07:22] <nit-wit> supersnail, sounds like a bad install really, do you need it being a wubi?
[07:23] <shawn146_> -_-
[07:23] <supersnail> no, I havent tried a usb load yet
[07:25] <nit-wit> supersnail, you could remove it and try again. Did it load the ISP then restart and install originally
[07:25] <nit-wit> *ISO
[07:27] <supersnail> i just tried to uninstall and reinstall with the same result, yes it loaded then restarted and installed
[07:28] <nit-wit> supersnail, did you download at the install or do you have actual cd
[07:29] <supersnail> I do not have a CD, I downloaded wubi from the ubuntu website
[07:30] <shawn146_> ???????
[07:31] <nit-wit> supersnail, have you run a MSD5sum https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM
[07:32] <supersnail> no, i will look
[07:33] <nit-wit> super could be a number of reasons why it isn't working starting here is sometimes the answer
[07:35] <supersnail> i dont know what that md5sum is... i'm going to try to download to a flash drive
[07:36] <shawn146_> uughh...
[07:36] <supersnail> thanks for your help nit-wit and all, I will prob be back :p
[07:36] <shawn146_> bash: cd: lib: Permission denied
[07:36] <nit-wit> supersnail, no problem
[07:36] <shawn146_> -_-
[07:36] <shawn146_> (shoots self in the head)
[07:36] <nit-wit> shawn146_, your abusing the channel.:(
[07:37] <shawn146_> oh
[07:37] <shawn146_> well i am tired, frustrated, and wanting to get this done tonight.
[07:37] <shawn146_> i have been at it for days
[07:38] <nit-wit> shawn146_, if somebody had an answer they would post one continuing to post negative responses diminishes this possibility.
[07:38] <shawn146_> oh..
[07:39] <nit-wit> shawn146_,  can you give a better description
[07:40] <shawn146_> good night
[07:52] <Byb> Hi. My laptop cannot resume from suspend to ram
[07:56] <Byb> ?
[07:57] <MrAnthrope> I think that's a common problem.
[07:57] <MrAnthrope> I've never had a laptop, though.
[07:58] <Byb> they are not for ubuntu?
[08:00] <Byb> Sorry, i am new in ubuntu. I mean, can only the desktop suspend/resume? This is strange
[08:01] <Byb> Bonjour evfool
[08:02] <evfool> hello
[08:02] <AbhiJit> suspend work here in my ubuntu
[08:02] <AbhiJit> i am using lucid 64
[08:02] <evfool> suspen should work on all hardware that supports it
[08:03] <evfool> it worked for me on all 4 laptops I've used
[08:03] <Byb> AbhiJit and evfool, do you say it works also for me?
[08:03] <AbhiJit> it should
[08:04] <Byb> Maybe I badly know what resume/suspend is.
[08:05] <AbhiJit> Byb, https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/hardware/C/pm-suspending.html
[08:07] <Byb> When the computer goes to sleep, there is a led light with a moon that lights near the keyboard, and the Fn+F1 or power button won't awake it back to use. I have to press a long time the pwr button and it reboots
[08:09] <Byb> I have the ubuntu 10.10
[08:10] <Byb> Not Found  The requested URL /~hughsient/quirk/quirk-suspend-debug.html was not found on this server.
[08:11] <AbhiJit> Byb, http://askubuntu.com/questions/14289/laptop-does-not-wake-up-after-sleep
[08:18] <Byb> Yes I tried to wait ~1 hour after pressing once the pwr button or the Fn+F1.
[08:26] <Byb> Please, where shall I find someone with skills that will ask me for logs?
[08:31] <Byb> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10334640
[09:28] <upsla> hi. i have beetel 100 cx usb adsl modem. i unable connect to internet. i am running ubuntu 10.10.can u help me ?
[09:31] <upsla> hi. i have beetel 100 cx usb adsl modem. i unable connect to internet. i am running ubuntu 10.10.can u help me ?
[09:45] <Bipul`> i want's to compile this file libgtkhtml2-dev can any one tell me the steps for compiling
[10:21] <Silver_Fox_> Hello.
[10:23] <ChrisDruif> Hai Silver_Fox_ :)
[10:24] <Silver_Fox_> Hello ChrisDruif .  How are you ?
[10:24] <ChrisDruif> I am great, how about you?
[10:25] <Silver_Fox_> Oh not so bad,  just seen I made the resolution center on ubuntu forums.
[10:26] <ChrisDruif> How do you mean?
[10:27] <Silver_Fox_> ChrisDruif,  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1663755
[11:36] <jermza> Do installed applications - but not necessarily in use - slow down Ubuntu?
[11:36] <akshatj> I don't think so
[11:37] <jermza> Eg, if I don't use Open Office, but it's installed, does it slow down Ubuntu's performance?
[11:37] <akshatj> no
[11:37] <JoeMaverickSett> no, it just uses your hard disk space if it's not in use.
[11:38] <jermza> So, it's unlike Windows (which gets slowed down)
[11:44] <ChrisDruif> jermza: I think most apps in Windows have some startup function, which slow it down...
[12:50] <jermza> I installed Nautilus Elementary and absolutely nothing has changed.
[12:50] <jermza> What am I doing wrong?
[12:52] <ChrisDruif> Did you restart nautilus?
[12:52] <ChrisDruif> jermza: ^
[12:53] <jermza> I restarted my whole machine.
[12:55] <jermza> no help?
[12:55] <che10> hoe start ik sabnzbplus op na de install?
[12:56] <ChrisDruif> jermza: Nautilus Elementary was a temporary project from Elementary OS, did you install NE via their PPA?
[12:56] <UndiFineD> jermza: what is the reason you are worried about performance ?
[12:57] <UndiFineD> che10: geen idee
[12:57] <che10> oke
[12:57] <ChrisDruif> che10: Als je in het Nederlands wilt vragen, moet ik je verwijzen naar #ubuntu-nl :) Heb zelf geen ervaring met sabnzd+
[12:57] <geirha> !dutch | ChrisDruif
[12:57] <ubot2> ChrisDruif: Nederlandstalige ondersteuning voor Ubuntu (en vers gezette koffie) is te vinden in #ubuntu-nl
[12:58] <che10> oke bedankt
[12:58] <UndiFineD> lol
[12:58] <ChrisDruif> geirha: Didn't know there was !dutch command :P
[12:58] <ChrisDruif> !dutch | che10
[12:58] <ubot2> che10: Nederlandstalige ondersteuning voor Ubuntu (en vers gezette koffie) is te vinden in #ubuntu-nl
[12:58] <geirha> d'oh. You ruined my c<tab>  :P
[12:58] <ChrisDruif> ;)
[12:58] <ibuclaw> !klingon | ibuclaw
[12:58] <ubot2> Factoid 'klingon' not found
[12:58] <ibuclaw> :(
[12:59] <UndiFineD> bak'toh
[12:59] <ChrisDruif> Did we scare him? :P
[12:59] <UndiFineD> jermza: ?
[12:59] <ChrisDruif> geirha: Pidgin sees similarities :P And asks which I want :P
[13:00] <ChrisDruif> What should klingon say ibuclaw?
[13:01] <ibuclaw> ChrisDruif, no idea. :~)
[13:01] <UndiFineD> something abouth honor and death if you do not join #ubuntu-klingon
[13:02] <UndiFineD> Kah'less commands you
[13:08] <ChrisDruif> ;add Klingon is If you live on Qo'noS (the Klingon home world) then your honor demands you to join the #ubuntu-klingon channel. If you do not adhere to your own honor, then a death match shall await between you and the current ruler of #ubuntu-klingon. The victor must join the #ubuntu-klingon as part of his obligations and shall be hauled as the new leader.
[13:08] <ChrisDruif> Something like that?
[13:09] <ChrisDruif> ;Klingon
[13:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> ;fail | ChrisDruif
[13:09] <IAmNotThatGuy> :P
[13:09] <ChrisDruif> Indeed, seeing DragonEyes is not present :P
[13:10] <IAmNotThatGuy> ChrisDruif, forgot the channel where you are at? lol
[13:10] <ChrisDruif> Prolly IAmNotThatGuy :)
[13:33] <geirha> ChrisDruif: irssi uses the last seen nick that starts with the current string... which would've been che10 if you hadn't barged in just before I hit tab :)
[13:39] <ChrisDruif> Sorry geirha :)
[13:48] <geirha> :)
[15:04] <ShootEmUp> Hello Everyone!
[15:06] <hobgoblin> Everyone went just before you logged on and left the rest of us behind
[15:06] <hobgoblin> goodnow ShootEmUp :)
[15:06] <ShootEmUp> lol, everyone left you
[15:09] <hobgoblin> ShootEmUp: yep - everyone left us :(
[15:10] <ShootEmUp> but I'm here, so now we can start this party!
[15:10] <hobgoblin> you can if you like, I'll be back later when I find Everyone
[15:10] <ShootEmUp> okay
[15:12] <hobgoblin> ShootEmUp: might be better to take the party to #ubuntu-beginners-team - then if it gets really rowdy it'll not get logged with the support stuff in here :)
[15:12] <ShootEmUp> already there
[15:12] <ChrisDruif> ShootEmUp: Hai, and us...sortof :P
[16:06] <ChrisDruif> ba-bye :P
[16:16]  * JackyAlcine is up and about; and missed school. O.O
[17:24] <supersnail> my computer does not recognize my flash drive as something to boot from... any suggestions?
[17:27] <supersnail> sorry disconnected... I cannot boot from a USB drive, any suggestions?
[17:28] <pleia2> supersnail: that's a hardware problem, not all systems will boot from USB
[17:29] <pleia2> supersnail: you can see if there is a bios update available
[17:29] <supersnail> thanks pleia, i will start there
[17:29] <johnny77> I've had Ubuntu for about a month now and trying to get away from the blind-acceptance of Windows, I have a few questions about Ubuntu configurations.
[17:30] <Unguided> holstein: r around?
[17:30] <pleia2> !ask | johnny77
[17:30] <ubot2> johnny77: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[17:31] <johnny77> In Ubuntu I understand Linux is the true OS, with gnome, KDE, LXDE etc. being the desktop environment, but now I'm seeing things about windows managers. Where do they fit in?
[17:31] <holstein> Unguided: hey
[17:31] <Unguided> holstein: Hey dude. I finally got wubi installed and using right now. WOOHOO!
[17:31] <johnny77> Sorry, I was trying to type the question so I wouldn't post one long message.
[17:31] <pleia2> johnny77: a window manager is the part of the desktop environment (gnome, kde, lxde) that controls behavior of the windows
[17:31] <holstein> Unguided: COOL
[17:32] <holstein> not bad right?
[17:32] <holstein> thats such a neat project i think
[17:32] <holstein> borrowing space on an existing ntfs partition and all
[17:32] <pigy1_alt> guys i got installed to point were i can loging using ctrl+cmd_f1 but stuck here
[17:33] <pleia2> johnny77: so you have the linux kernel, on top of that you may have gnome for the graphical interface, which uses Metacity or Compiz as a window manager
[17:33] <holstein> you'll probably want an actual install in a couple weeks :)
[17:33] <Unguided> no. I agree. now im trying to decide if i want to keep wubi or make a virtual machine using virtualbox then i can test networking between two virtual machines
[17:33] <holstein> i think wubi is a nice step up from Vbox
[17:33] <Unguided> your probably right on the install
[17:33] <holstein> easy*
[17:33] <johnny77> pleia2: I know it's a lot about personal preference, but why choice Metacity, openbox, fluxbox or whatever?
[17:33] <holstein> IF you dont need both win and lin at the same time
[17:34] <pleia2> johnny77: metacity has flawless integration with the gnome desktop, fluxbox and openbox can be run by themselves without a desktop environment if your needs are simple (fluxbox out of the box pretty just gives you borders and basic menus and navigation)
[17:34] <Unguided> right. cant test networking between the two without vbox though. can test 2 vm's in a virtual network environment on the same laptop though
[17:35] <johnny77> When I go to login, I have the choice of Ubuntu, gnome/openbox, LXDE, and openbox session. And I think I can install fluxbox and have many more choice.s
[17:35] <pleia2> johnny77: yep
[17:35] <supersnail> trying to install with wubi, do i need to partition the hd? or just follow instructions?
[17:35] <holstein> supersnail: nope
[17:36] <holstein> you start the install from the windows desktop
[17:36] <Unguided> supersnail: no. just follow the directions. it will make a file on your hard drive. you can tell wubi how much space to use. i told it 10gb
[17:36] <holstein> logged into windows
[17:36] <supersnail> thanks
[17:36] <johnny77> pleia2: I'm in an Openbox session which give me very little. Why would I want to run this versus openbox with a DE?
[17:36] <Unguided> gosh. im already helping others
[17:36] <Unguided> LOL
[17:36] <holstein> Unguided: :)
[17:37] <Unguided> how much snow did you get
[17:37] <pigy1_alt> it looks like maybe something wrong with my vidoe, but only thing read on blogs is to change xorg.conf but i dont see it on 10.10
[17:37] <holstein> Unguided: me?
[17:37] <pleia2> johnny77: you may like a desktop with "very little" :) I use fluxbox on my 2nd desktop because all I ever do is use a browser and watch movies on it, I don't need widgets and things
[17:37] <holstein> we have about a foot some places
[17:37] <Unguided> holstein. yes sorry
[17:37] <holstein> still coming down
[17:37] <johnny77> pleia2: If I can also install Fluxbox or blackbox, do I just have to install them and try them to see if I like?
[17:38] <holstein> hitting a bunch of folk i think
[17:38] <Unguided> holstein: what state r u in
[17:38] <pleia2> johnny77: yep, you'd just select fluxbox or whichever when you log in
[17:38] <holstein> NC
[17:38] <holstein> asheville north carolina
[17:38] <Unguided> holstein: that sucks
[17:38] <holstein> nah, its been pretty tame so far
[17:38] <holstein> and its pretty
[17:38] <holstein> as long as you dont have anywhere to go
[17:38] <holstein> and i dont :)
[17:38] <Unguided> holstein: im in ohio. we r expecting 2-4
[17:39] <johnny77> pleia2: do you prefer fluxbox over blacbox or openbox?
[17:39] <holstein> Unguided: its coming your way
[17:39] <Unguided> holstein: by wednesday night
[17:39]  * pleia2 nudges off-topic discussion elsewhere ;)
[17:39] <pigy1_alt> anyone know how i can get ui to work, if i cant find xorg.conf file
[17:39]  * holstein nudges pleia2 ;)
[17:39] <pleia2> johnny77: I never really tried openbox or blackbox, fluxbox worked well for me so I kept with it
[17:41] <johnny77> pleia2: can I get certain programs to automatically run when I enter openbox?
[17:41] <Unguided> holstein: your opinion: vbox vm for both linux windows and for testing environment
[17:41] <pleia2> johnny77: I don't know much about openbox and whether it has some kind of built-in mechanism for that, you can always write scripts to launch things
[17:42] <holstein> Unguided: i think Vbox is great for testing
[17:42] <holstein> reverting to snapshots
[17:42] <holstein> handy
[17:42] <holstein> and networking is not an issue
[17:42] <holstein> depends on what you need i suppose
[17:43] <johnny77> pleia2: can you do that in fluxbox?
[17:43] <pleia2> pigy1_alt: I'm afraid xorg.conf isn't standard in modern distros since it usually "just works" with auto-detection, but you should start by looking at the /var/log/Xorg.0.log log file to see what is failing
[17:43] <Unguided> Holstein: i think by setting up a vm that way I can walk through the actuall install process nodestructively
[17:43] <pleia2> johnny77: no, you have to use a script
[17:45] <kristian-aalborg> hi y'all
[17:45] <pigy1_alt> pleia2 got log file open.. and looking now
[17:45] <kristian-aalborg> can someone recommend a game or two that does not run via X?
[17:45] <pigy1_alt> would i look at last line ?
[17:46] <pleia2> pigy1_alt: could be the last line, could be a few lines up, typically you'll see a warning or failure notice
[17:46] <pigy1_alt> last line says AIGLX: suspending AIGLX clients
[17:46] <Unguided> holstein: i figure using a vm i can make partitions etc even ubuntu server
[17:48] <Unguided> *test ubuntu server
[17:49] <pleia2> pigy1_alt: there will probably be a few errors (even a functioning xserver sometimes has some non-fatal, informational warnings), for each one I'd pop them into google and see if you can figure out what's causing the trouble
[17:49] <Unguided> alright. im out. time to go to work. TTYL.
[17:49] <holstein> Unguided: laterx :)
[17:51] <hobgoblin> pigy1_alt: look for EE and WW in the xorg log, for instance in a terminal cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log |grep WW  and cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log |grep EE
[17:51] <supersnail_> i've been trying to install ubuntu for hours now & have run into problems with every way I try it. When I dl to a flash drive, i cannot boot through a usb, when I use wubi, when I start ubuntu, it is not an option in the 2nd boot screen... is there another way?
[17:53] <pigy1_alt> man, i guess i better usto command like filtering cause that file i huge :)
[17:53] <hobgoblin> there are huger ones ...
[17:56] <johnny77> Is the gnome-panel the same no matter which desktop environment or windows manager I login to?
[17:57] <supersnail_> how do i make sure my usb drive is bootable?
[17:58] <pigy1_alt> damn, just did sudo nano filepath with grep
[17:59] <hobgoblin> johnny77: no - if you logged into a kde one there is no gnome panel - fluxbox wouldn't use it
[18:20] <piromire> so, I downloaded ubuntu and burned it to a disc. I've been running it in the "Try Ubuntu" mode because when I try to install, it sits there for hours at a time and does absolutely nothing (on the language select screen).
[18:22] <piromire> so I guess what I'm asking is, why can I run Ubuntu in Try mode, but not install it?
[18:22] <holstein> piromire: graphics chip i say
[18:22] <holstein> well...
[18:25] <piromire> I use a relatively new laptop, from 2009. is there maybe an older version I can download that will install?
[18:27] <holstein> piromire: what is on your HD now?
[18:30] <hobgoblin> piromire: have you checked the cd - there's an option on the cd boot screen - hit any key once you get the pic of a man and kbd
[18:31] <piromire> I was using vista, but I got a virus and just wiped my computer clean.. and I coudln't re-install vista because the product key on the bottom of my laptop is half worn off
[18:31] <piromire> D:
[18:31] <holstein> piromire: when you're in the live envoronment
[18:32] <piromire> I hold F12 while it's booting up and select "CD/DVD" and it goes straight to the Try It or Install it screen
[18:32] <holstein> try running gparted from the system - administration menu
[18:32] <holstein> see if your HD looks good
[18:32] <holstein> other than that, it could be a bad iso
[18:34] <piromire> Hm, I got the iso from the ubuntu site
[18:34] <piromire> I guess I'll have my friend take a look at the hard drive and whatnot
[18:34] <piromire> haha
[18:34] <piromire> thanks for the help though!
[18:35] <hobgoblin> piromire: did you torrent it - or did you check the iso you donwloaded with md5sum
[18:35] <piromire> I downloaded the iso from the Ubuntu site
[18:36] <hobgoblin> piromire: yea - we underdstand that, doesn't mean that the iso has an error caused between there and you - did you check it or check that the cd was a good burn?
[18:38] <piromire> I guess I'm not really sure how to check that
[18:38] <holstein> you can check from the boot screen as hobgoblin suggested
[18:39] <holstein> OR look at the md5 sum
[18:39] <holstein> several ways
[18:39] <hobgoblin> piromire: reboot and you can check the cd from it's screen - any key at the man and kdb screen
[18:42] <piromire> okay, now i'm just waiting on it to check
[18:43] <holstein> if that passes, id look at the hard drive
[18:43] <holstein> piromire: what computer?
[18:43] <holstein> you might find some info on a wiki or forum about that particual unit
[18:46] <piromire> yeah, no errors found
[18:46] <piromire> I'll look around wiki then and have someone look at the hard drive for me
[18:46] <piromire> thanks a lot!
[18:46] <metaflav> hi just got ubuntu on a CD, want to install it & also keep windows 7, don't know how to partion the hard drives. don't have any "free space"
[18:47] <holstein> metaflav: you'll have to have somewhere to put it
[18:47] <hobgoblin> metaflav: I suspect that you need to look at some partition work - can you open a terminal from the apps- accessories and paste in this command  sudo fdisk -l
[18:48] <holstein> when messing with partitions, i would suggest backing up your data
[18:48] <hobgoblin> then paste the result to paste.ubuntu.com - put a name in the name box and hit paste - give us the new url
[18:50] <metaflav> http://paste.ubuntu.com/552540/
[18:50] <metaflav> I have windows saved on a disk and my files are in the cloud :)
[18:52] <pigy1_alt> pleia2 man this is hard.. ran ubuntu-bug xorg to send bug but not sure what todo next
[18:54] <pigy1_alt> i get err r128 0 fbioput_vscreeninfo
[18:56] <kristian-aalborg> this is kind of embarrasing... I want to update from terminal but can't figure out the proper way to do it without getting a new kernel
[19:01] <MichealH> Hi
[19:02] <MichealH> hobgoblin: around?
[19:02] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: you'd need to pin the kernel then - no idea how though lol - I 'think' you can do so in synaptoc
[19:03] <hobgoblin> MichealH: off and on I am
[19:03] <MichealH> hobgoblin: There is this person I met who is intrested in BT
[19:03] <MichealH> :)
[19:03] <MichealH> But of course me not being a member I cannot mentor him or anything like that... :D
[19:04]  * MichealH hints
[19:04] <MichealH> *hint* *hint* :P
[19:04] <hobgoblin> nice - send them along to the team channel and get them to post to the m/l - hang on and I'll get a link
[19:04] <hobgoblin> MichealH: thanks for thinking of me - but I'm taking a breather from padawans
[19:04] <MichealH> Ah
[19:05] <hobgoblin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[19:05] <MichealH> I am getting to be a member... Well cprofitt thinks im ready :)
[19:05] <MichealH> cprofitt: around? :P
[19:06] <codo> hi ?
[19:06] <kristian-aalborg> hi hobgoblin
[19:06] <akshatj> codo: hi
[19:06] <MichealH> Hi codo
[19:06] <MichealH> :)
[19:06] <codo> hi all :)
[19:07] <kristian-aalborg> that just seems so weird... often you'd not want a kernel update
[19:07] <hobgoblin> hi codo
[19:07] <MichealH> hobgoblin: Care to give the link to codo? :)
[19:07] <codo> hi hobgoblin akshatj MichealH
[19:07] <hobgoblin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[19:07] <codo> ok
[19:07] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: I've never not updated a kernel, lucky I guess
[19:08] <kristian-aalborg> sudo apt-get upgrade gets the new kernel, if there is one
[19:08] <kristian-aalborg> to my understanding, at least
[19:10] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: yes it would - but if the kernel is pinned or whatever you do then it get's left - never done it with a kernle - but I have done it with other packages
[19:10] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: might need to do all the kernel things - not sure - try it
[19:10] <kristian-aalborg> hurm
[19:10] <hobgoblin> unless someone else wants to jump in with more specific information
[19:13] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: if you do it in synaptic - you'll see the update availablilty change as you reload etc - it won't update untill you actually apply changes
[19:14] <kristian-aalborg> hobgoblin: I don't even have X ;)
[19:14] <hobgoblin> well at least it won't update then :p
[19:14] <hobgoblin> hang on a mo
[19:19] <kristian-aalborg> np
[19:19] <hobgoblin> kristian-aalborg: start here assuming you can see websites ... https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto
[19:19] <hobgoblin> found a few forum links - but they point in the same direction - also appears to be problematic
[19:20] <kristian-aalborg> hobgoblin: thanks, I can easily read websites etc etc... I have two computers - this is for the X-less one
[19:21] <hobgoblin> sorry I can't be of more help
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> it's cool, I got somewhere
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1342064
[19:26] <kristian-aalborg> I actually thought this was a wanted feature, but I guess not
[19:28] <hobgoblin> nice find - bookmarked
[19:39] <cprofitt> codo: welcome
[19:40] <cprofitt> thinking about getting a BU-353...
[19:40] <cprofitt> anyone in here had any luck with one of those under Ubuntu?
[19:59] <codo> cprofitt: so is there a nice helpful doc on creating coc key ?
[19:59] <codo> anywhere ?
[20:00] <codo> cprofitt: also thanks for the welcome
[20:03] <UndiFineD> ;CoC
[20:03] <UndiFineD> !CoC
[20:03] <ubot2> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct is a community etiquette document to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere, and can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ .  For information on how to electronically sign the CoC, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SigningCodeofConduct .
[20:04] <codo> ok thanks UndiFineD
[20:05] <UndiFineD> codo: the screencast I can really recommend
[20:05] <UndiFineD> it was made by duanedesign here
[20:05] <codo> ah ok :)
[20:06] <Daniel0108> codo: duanedesign is my mentor ;) ;D
[20:07] <codo> Daniel0108: ah ok :)
[21:02] <Daniel0108>  GTG, bye :D
[21:27] <Red-Raven> hey guys.
[21:27] <Red-Raven> took a new step in Ubuntu/genera computer stuff: VMware. got some questions though.
[21:31] <Red-Raven_> anyone understand how VMware handles memory?
[21:31] <eviljames> Attempting to run ubuntu 10.10 from my lvm root, initramfs is apparently misbehaving.  Refuses to boot, drpos me at the busybox/initramfs prompt.  From that prompt I can modprobe dm_mod ; vgscan ; vgchange -ay, and then mount root, but I don't know why this isn't happening automatically by the initramfs.  Anyone know much about this initramfs / lvm / raid / ubuntu combination?
[21:34] <Red-Raven_> no clue. i've been on Ubuntu for about two weeks now.
[21:34] <eviljames> heh
[21:35] <eviljames> I don't know much about Ubuntu myself, but I've been on Slackware for over 10 yrs..
[21:35] <eviljames> I actually expected Ubuntu not to need much configuring for lvm
[21:35] <Red-Raven_> slackware another Linux-based OS?
[21:35] <eviljames> Slackware is the oldest surviving Linux distro.
[21:36] <Red-Raven_> is it like the original Linux?
[21:38] <aveilleux> Red-Raven_: "Linux" is just the name of the kernel.
[21:38] <eviljames> Well, no.  but it has been around since 1993, and maintained by the same 1 guy for its entire lifetime.
[21:38] <eviljames> (and his band of merry men, of course)
[21:39] <aveilleux> Red-Raven_: If you're interested, here's a timeline: http://futurist.se/gldt/
[21:39] <Red-Raven_> oh right. i srot of knew that.
[21:39] <Red-Raven_> he still does right?
[21:55] <eviljames> Red-Raven_: yes, indeed, Pat still maintains Slackware.
[21:55] <eviljames> ...but about initramfs :P
[22:36] <Red-Raven_> pat?
[22:39] <Red-Raven_> oh crap. my moms laptop its having issues again. this time yeildmanager, an ad service owned by yahoo, is directing her to their site when she tries to veiw yahoo news story. yahoo is doing this to its own users! i might have fixed it though by adding yeildmanager to the windows host file.
[22:40] <aveilleux> Red-Raven_: What browser is she using?
[22:41] <Red-Raven_> EI.  Ik Ik.... i might have her switch to FF.
[22:41]  * aveilleux hopes it's not IE
[22:41] <Red-Raven_> too late
[22:41] <aveilleux> Red-Raven_: Actually it's easier in Opera... it has built-in content blocking
[22:43] <Red-Raven_> yah but its a rig we'd rather not DL stuff to cause its not technically ours. she uses it to create power points for church service. and they own it. but FF is already on there, and i may have her get AVG. would that help?
[22:43]  * aveilleux shrugs
[22:44] <Red-Raven_> (sorry to anyone who wants to have a real linux convo. if you need anything feel free. ill stop discussing this)
[22:45] <Red-Raven_> yah so IDK. like i said, i added it to the host file, so if that doesn't work, ill have her switch to FF and get AVG.
[22:47] <Red-Raven_> well seems like the host file worked.
[22:48] <Red-Raven_> so anyways, i had some questions about memory and VMware.
[22:49] <holstein> VMware is just given memory from your system
[22:49] <holstein> is that what you mean?
[22:49] <holstein> i use Vbox
[22:49] <holstein> when you give Vbox 512 of your ram, its just given access to it
[22:49] <holstein> and, AFAIK, the host system loses access to it
[22:49] <holstein> VM might do it differently
[22:49] <Red-Raven__> not that. i mean HD space.
[22:50] <Red-Raven__> AFAIK?
[22:50] <aveilleux> Red-Raven__: As Far As I know
[22:50] <aveilleux> Red-Raven__: Also, memory != hard drive space
[22:50] <Red-Raven__> thx.
[22:50] <aveilleux> Red-Raven__: They're very different things :P
[22:51] <holstein> Red-Raven__: its vitrual HD space
[22:51] <Red-Raven__> oh. so memory=RAM and HD space=?
[22:51] <holstein> its not partitioned or whatever
[22:51] <holstein> its like a file
[22:51] <holstein> you can delete it
[22:51] <aveilleux> Red-Raven__: HD space is how much space you have on your hard drive :P
[22:51] <holstein> Vbox has a way for the guest HD to scale as needed
[22:51] <holstein> like a file that can get larger when you need it to
[22:51] <holstein> im sure VM has that too
[22:52] <eviljames> Attempting to run ubuntu 10.10 from my lvm root, initramfs is apparently misbehaving.  Refuses to boot, drpos me at the busybox/initramfs prompt.  From that prompt I can modprobe dm_mod ; vgscan ; vgchange -ay, and then mount root, but I don't know why this isn't happening automatically by the initramfs.  Anyone know much about this initramfs / lvm / raid / ubuntu combination?
[22:52] <Red-Raven__> i know that. theres mot a simpler word like memory for RAM? you have to say HD space?
[22:52] <holstein> memory isnt HD space
[22:52] <holstein> memory = ram
[22:53] <Red-Raven__> IK that now.
[22:53] <holstein> although some folk say memory for HD space
[22:53] <holstein> which is unclear
[22:53] <Red-Raven__> so then what do you say for HD sapce? or is thatt the shortest possible?
[22:53] <holstein> storage is the buss word associated with HD space
[22:53] <Red-Raven__> ok thx.
[22:53] <holstein> "plenty of memory and storage"
[22:54] <holstein> buzz*
[22:54] <eviljames> I'd say that when people use memory and storage interchangeably, they don't have any real notion of what either means.
[22:54] <eviljames> More often than not, anyhow.
[22:54] <holstein> eviljames: agreed
[22:56] <Red-Raven__> oh got it. so i have an ubuntu ISO on windows. when i use VM to open the ISO, and later close it, it doesn't take any more storage than before i opened it, right? like VM doesn't make some kind of copy for it to use?
[22:56] <holstein> not the iso
[22:56] <holstein> the guest OS just reads that
[22:56] <holstein> the same way a physical machine would read a disc
[22:56] <holstein> a CD
[22:56] <holstein> or DVD
[22:57] <Red-Raven__> so it would be like booting a Live CD, but staying in windows?
[22:57] <eviljames> Red-Raven__: VMWare (or, for a more user-friendly approach VirtualBox) makes a Virtual HD - which attaches to the VM as a storage unit.  You could then install whatever onto the Virtual HD - which is just a file or series of files on your host.
[22:57] <holstein> booting a 'fake' live CD in windows on a vitual machine
[22:58] <Red-Raven__> so how would i save files created in VMware?
[22:58] <holstein> on the vitual hard drive
[22:58] <eviljames> I think there are some concepts here that haven't stuck.
[22:58] <holstein> just think of it like a complete vitual computer
[22:58] <holstein> virtual*
[22:58] <eviljames> 1) Virtual Machine.  This is a complete computer, except instead of running on hardware, it runs in a window.
[22:58] <holstein> with its own hard drive and memory and everything
[22:59] <Red-Raven__> ok i get that part, (virtual PC). but i don't get the virtual HD yet.
[22:59] <eviljames> it is fully separate from the host computer (where the window runs), and provides its own CPU, RAM, Hard Drive, CD Rom Drive, Video Card, USB ports, etc. to the guest OS.
[22:59] <eviljames> The Guest OS then has to be installed onto the hard drive that the Hypervisor (Host software running the Guest OS) provides to the Guest
[22:59] <Red-Raven__> so like windows is pushed to the side while VM runs?
[22:59] <holstein> NO
[22:59] <Red-Raven__> so i need a web host then?
[23:00] <holstein> the fake machine is being hosted my windows in that scenario
[23:00] <eviljames> Windows is still running.  It is running a program that emulates a CPU.
[23:00] <holstein> hosted by*
[23:00] <eviljames> Windows is considered the "Host" machine in this.  "Host" in this context is different from a web host.
[23:00] <eviljames> Logically different, if conceptually similar.
[23:01] <Red-Raven__> so i need two machines to run VM? one host and one to access it/
[23:01] <Red-Raven__> ?*
[23:01] <holstein> no
[23:01] <eviljames> So your Host (Windows) provides a Virtual Hard Disk (which is a series of files in your C:\) to VMWare.  Ubuntu can be installed onto the Vurtal HD
[23:01] <holstein> the guest is faked
[23:01] <eviljames> Virtual, rather.
[23:01] <holstein> yup
[23:01] <eviljames> Red-Raven__: The Hypervisor (VMware) _is_ the second machine.  Or, rather, it's a layer that allows you to pretend you're running a 2nd machine on your first machine.
[23:01] <eviljames> If that makes sense...
[23:01] <holstein> you boot the install medium in the V machine
[23:02] <holstein> and install to a portion of your hard drive
[23:02] <holstein> that will be used as an actual hard drive in the virtual guest
[23:02] <Red-Raven__> ohhhhhh so like the OS your running in VM has access to all the files on your C drive?
[23:02] <eviljames> no.
[23:02] <eviljames> They're fully separate.
[23:02] <holstein> you can set up shares
[23:02] <holstein> but NO
[23:02] <eviljames> The OS running in the VM has its own C drive
[23:02] <eviljames> which is the virtual disk you provide to it.
[23:03] <holstein> its just as if you have a different computer there
[23:03] <Red-Raven__> so you need to give it a blank CD?
[23:03] <holstein> Red-Raven__: for?
[23:03] <holstein> the virtual hard drive?
[23:03] <holstein> you set up a virtual hard drive
[23:03] <holstein> when you make the virtual machine
[23:03] <Red-Raven__> ok i think i just need a good article. i dont understand this virtual HD stuff.
[23:03] <eviljames> Red-Raven__: I think you have plenty of reading to do :)
[23:04] <eviljames> Red-Raven__: First, don't use VMWare, use VirtualBox
[23:04] <holstein> you tell it to use a portion of your hard drive
[23:04] <eviljames> It will make things MUCH more clear I think
[23:04] <holstein> yeah
[23:04] <holstein> just run Vbox
[23:04] <eviljames> VirtualBox, fwiw, is the _best_ consumer-grade Virtualization software.
[23:04] <holstein> and google when you get a quiestion
[23:04] <eviljames> And they have superb documentation.
[23:04] <holstein> its easy too
[23:04] <Red-Raven__> so is there any point in keeping VMware?
[23:04] <holstein> on buntu
[23:04] <eviljames> Red-Raven__: VMWare is the industry standard.
[23:05] <Red-Raven__> ok ill go dlete VMware then.
[23:10] <Red-Raven__> is the standered add/remove programs option in win7 good at removing every peice of a program?
[23:10] <holstein> Red-Raven__: ive only seen windows 7 run for about 10 mintues in total
[23:10] <holstein> i would say no
[23:10] <holstein> but just because thats the way if used to be
[23:10] <holstein> it*
[23:10] <Red-Raven__> um, ok. then how SHOULD i go about removing stuff?
[23:11] <holstein> hmmm, i would google "windows 7, completly remove whatever"
[23:11] <Red-Raven__> ok thx.
[23:16] <Red-Raven__> this looks good: http://www.martau.com/
[23:17] <holstein> lol
[23:17] <Red-Raven__> ???
[23:17] <holstein> dont install more software to make sure the software is removed ;)
[23:18] <eviljames> sudo apt-get remove windows
[23:18] <holstein> hehe
[23:18] <eviljames> how doez it work?! :D
[23:18] <eviljames> removepkg windows-7-*.tgz
[23:18] <eviljames> nope...
[23:18] <holstein> nah, just dont add things to try and get rid of things
[23:18] <holstein> counter-productive in my opinion
[23:19] <Red-Raven__> ok. so then just use add/remove programs in win7 then?
[23:19] <holstein> whatever you feel comfortable with
[23:19] <holstein> i dont have any experience to share about win7
[23:19] <Red-Raven__> ok. anyone else?
[23:20] <holstein> nah, anyone else will refer you to ##windows
[23:20] <Red-Raven__> alright then. ill stick with win7 built in stuff for now then. let me restart so it will delete VMware. wouldn't have to reboot in linux....
[23:21] <eviljames> I think that add/remove programs is ...
[23:21] <eviljames> ok, later dude! :D
[23:25] <Red-Raven> so this is the right thing: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads ?
[23:26] <holstein> Red-Raven: if you would like to download Vbox 4.o for windows
[23:26] <holstein> that would be the place to go
[23:27] <Red-Raven> ok awesome.
[23:28] <robbmunson> hi all! =)
[23:29] <Red-Raven> Hello!
[23:30] <Red-Raven> wow Virtual Box is actually...pretty big...
[23:30] <eviljames> Yeah, but worth it.
[23:30] <Red-Raven> i hope so :)
[23:31] <Red-Raven> is there a good aritcle on how exactly virualiztion works? if you can't think of it off the top of your head don't worry about it. ill find something. maybe wiki.
[23:32] <eviljames> Even wikipedia is going to be too detailed.
[23:32] <eviljames> I think what we need here is a good analogy
[23:32] <eviljames> and, unfortunately, there is no car analogy :P
[23:32] <Red-Raven> YES! i love analogys!
[23:32] <Red-Raven> carr?
[23:32] <Red-Raven> car*
[23:33] <holstein> its like having 2 computers in one
[23:33] <eviljames> Not quite
[23:33] <holstein> sharing resources
[23:33] <eviljames> because it's like having N computers in
[23:33] <Red-Raven> ok i get that.
[23:33] <eviljames> one
[23:34] <holstein> eviljames: hehe
[23:34] <holstein> true ;)
[23:34] <eviljames> k.  Let's do this as a series of layers.
[23:34] <Red-Raven> wow please don't start all this again!
[23:34] <holstein> you can have as many as you want
[23:34] <eviljames> Red-Raven: I got this, bear with me :D
[23:34] <eviljames> Red-Raven: layer 1: Hardware.  By itself it does nothing but receive instructions and process that.
[23:34] <eviljames> This much, you understand on an intuitive level.
[23:34] <eviljames> Layer 2: OS.  presents information in a way that human can use it.  Receives information in a way that human outputs it.
[23:35] <eviljames> Translates that information into instructions for the hardware to process, receives output from the hardware, give it to human.  repeat ad nauseum
[23:35] <eviljames> This much, you also understand.
[23:35] <Red-Raven> yah. like the GUI.
[23:35] <eviljames> Layer 3: Software - provides useful features to the OS.
[23:35] <phillw> cprofitt: you called?
[23:35] <eviljames> I'd put the GUI as Layer 3 (because that's where it is Linux)
[23:36] <eviljames> Red-Raven: Note: These Layers I'm mentioning are made up on the fly by me right now.  Nobody else will know whta I'm talking about :P
[23:36] <eviljames> "This is a layer 3!" <- won't mean anything outside this conversation :P
[23:36] <nit-wit> ohhhh the usual suspects.:)
[23:36] <eviljames> anyhow.
[23:36] <Red-Raven> thought so lol.
[23:36] <Red-Raven> hey nit-wit. im learning about virtual......stuf....
[23:36] <Red-Raven> stuff*
[23:36] <eviljames> Red-Raven: Anyhow, the GUI, Excel, Outlook, Firefox, etc, consider this all to be level 3-ish. :P
[23:37] <Red-Raven> right.
[23:37] <eviljames> Another Level 3 software is the Hypervisor
[23:37] <eviljames> The Hypervisor creates a fake Level 1.
[23:37] <Red-Raven> fake hardware?
[23:37] <eviljames> Yes.
[23:37] <Red-Raven> how is that possible?
[23:37] <eviljames> Exactly that.  Fake hardware.
[23:37] <nit-wit> Red-Raven, virtual is cool some things run better the others, but overall it is a good skill to know what to basically do.
[23:37] <nit-wit> *then
[23:37] <cprofitt> yes, phillw -- are you in -team?
[23:38] <eviljames> Red-Raven: For today's lesson, you do not want to know how it is possible.
[23:38] <eviljames> Red-Raven: Just know that it is, and that's what you're doing.
[23:38] <eviljames> Fake Motherboard, CPU, RAM, HD, Floppy, Mouse, Keyboard, USB, everything.
[23:38] <JackyAlcine> >
[23:38] <Red-Raven> um, ok. *puts that in sticky note*
[23:38] <JackyAlcine> ?
[23:38] <JackyAlcine> eviljames: are you talking about virtualization?
[23:38] <eviljames> JackyAlcine: Trying to give a good beginner's view on virtualization.
[23:38] <eviljames> JackyAlcine: Don't clutter it up with the nitty gritty until I'm done ;)
[23:38] <Red-Raven> yup :)
[23:39] <JackyAlcine> eviljames: lol, you're cruel! lol that's such a scary way of describing it!
[23:39] <eviljames> JackyAlcine: When I'm done it will be clear, conceptually! :D
[23:39] <JackyAlcine> eviljames: I'd be afraid to virtualize if I learned about it that way! lol
[23:39] <eviljames> Red-Raven: So, the fake Level 1 that is established is powerful enough to run a level2, which then runs your level 3 stuff.
[23:39] <Red-Raven> ok got that.
[23:39] <eviljames> Red-Raven: But it _also_ sandboxes everything.  The Guest machine has _no_ idea that it is running in a VM
[23:40] <Red-Raven> guest machine is windows?
[23:40] <eviljames> here we'll draw a distinction: "Host" and "Guest" - the Host machine runs the Hypervisor (Vmware, VirtualBox) etc
[23:40] <eviljames> In your case, Windows is the Host
[23:40] <Red-Raven> and guest is whatever ISO you're running?
[23:40] <eviljames> it runs VirtualBox, which provides this fake Layer 1.
[23:40] <eviljames> Yes, indeed!
[23:41] <eviljames> When VirtualBox loads up a window that's running an iso
[23:41] <eviljames> What's _really_ happening is:
[23:41] <eviljames> It creates a sandboxed, fake CPU/RAM/everything.
[23:41] <eviljames> Red-Raven: Did you ever play ROMs?  NES / SNES / Genesis...Mame?
[23:41] <nit-wit> Red-Raven, which computer are you going virtual with?
[23:42] <Red-Raven> no. im 15.
[23:42] <Red-Raven> im vitualizing on my laptop, on windows 7.
[23:42] <eviljames> ahhh
[23:43] <eviljames> Red-Raven: Ok, so virtualbox sets up a sandbox, provides a fake CPU/RAM/etc.
[23:43] <Red-Raven> i know that.
[23:43] <eviljames> It also provides a fake CDRom drive, that is filled with a fake CD (<- the iso image)
[23:43] <Red-Raven> now.
[23:43] <nit-wit> Red-Raven, good the XP unit is to underpowered, but you probably knew that already. Did you get all dualbooted with the XP setup?
[23:43] <eviljames> Then, the fake computer boots up, as a normal machine would.  It reads the ISO as a normal computer would read a bootable CD from its CDRom drive
[23:43] <Red-Raven> nit-wit, yup.
[23:43] <nit-wit> Red-Raven, cool your styling now.:)
[23:44] <eviljames> Which, in turn, initializes the Operating System (layer 2), and allows you to run programs (layer 3)
[23:44] <eviljames> They even provide a fake graphics card so you can use a GUI :D
[23:44] <Red-Raven> nit-wit: yeah. :)
[23:44] <eviljames> that being said, it's not anywhere near what a real graphics card is/can do - so 3D gaming (and pretty much any/all 3D acceleration) is unavailable.
[23:44] <eviljames> Red-Raven: has what I've said made even a little sense?
[23:45] <Red-Raven> ok i get it. so even if there is no CD in the drive, the virtual box tells the guest OS that there is and gives it the ISO files when it asks for the CD?
[23:45] <Red-Raven> yes.
[23:46] <eviljames> Pretty much, yeah.  When virtualbox sees the ISO file, it pretends that it's a disc inside a cd drive
[23:46] <eviljames> durrr, to many "it" in that sentence.  When virtualbox gets the iso, virtualbox pretends the iso is a cd inside a cd drive
[23:47] <Red-Raven> real hardware>real OS>real software>Virtual Box>fake Hardware (including fake CD drive that's replased with real ISO)>fake software>fake software
[23:48] <eviljames> Yeah, something like that.
[23:48] <eviljames> For all intents and purposes, you could treat each VirtualBox window as its own computer.
[23:48] <Red-Raven> ok cool. so is that it?
[23:48] <eviljames> So, you could (in theory, providing your system can do it) run 4 virtual machines side by side
[23:48] <eviljames> and it's like running 4 computers, on your computer
[23:48] <JackyAlcine> yup
[23:48] <JackyAlcine> so fun.:D
[23:49] <eviljames> JackyAlcine: anything I missed, or glossed over too much?
[23:49] <Red-Raven> ...not on my 2 GB RAM you can't...
[23:49] <eviljames> hahahah
[23:49] <JackyAlcine> I'll have to read up a bit.
[23:49] <eviljames> You could run OpenBSD in 256MB or less, FreeBSD on another 256, Slackware on 512 or so... ;)
[23:50] <nit-wit> see you all on the natty side.:)
[23:50] <JackyAlcine> Nope, you got it. :D
[23:52] <Red-Raven> anyways, i only have one main question before i go off to read articles on it: can you explain the whole fake hradware thing? i mean, to get the functions hardware is necissary for done, don't you need actual circiuts? or is that crazy?
[23:52] <Red-Raven> hardware*
[23:53] <JackyAlcine> That's a bit complicated.
[23:54] <eviljames> Indeed, that's why I glossed over it.
[23:54] <JackyAlcine> I don't even know fully myself.
[23:54] <Red-Raven> um, ok.
[23:54] <Red-Raven> ill have to look that up then.
[23:54] <eviljames> If you really want to know, there's a translation layer between the instructions that the OS gives its fake processor and what the Hypervisor sends to the *actual* OS to send to the *actual* processor
[23:54] <eviljames> (roughly)
[23:54] <eviljames> I should've been more clear.
[23:55] <eviljames> There's a translation layer between the instructions that the Guest OS sends to the fake processor, which the hypervisor receives, translates, sends to the Host OS to send to the Host Processor.
[23:55] <eviljames> Somewhat more clear, but for all intents and purposes, treat the Hypervisor as an emulator
[23:55] <Red-Raven> ok i get it. *actual" really does mean real here?
[23:56] <Red-Raven> ok i think i get it enough to get through it all now.
[23:56] <eviljames> Yeah, above, actual = host = the real piece of metal.
[23:56] <eviljames> as opposed to fake, which is the guest / hypervisor provided CPU
[23:56] <Red-Raven> how do i save files i create on these guest OSs though?
[23:56] <eviljames> Right, that's where the virtual HDs come in.
[23:57] <eviljames> The hypervisor takes a single file, makes it, say, 20GB, and provides that to the Guest OS as a Hard Disk.
[23:57] <eviljames> Which, under the Guest, you could then partition, format, install, etc.
[23:57] <Red-Raven> i follow.
[23:58] <eviljames> You can, at least in VirtualBox, fairly easily provide folders on your Host to the Guest.  They're done via the network.  This part gets a little tricky.
[23:58] <Red-Raven> is this file real or fake?
[23:58] <eviljames> heh, here we go :D
[23:58] <Red-Raven> oh noes!
[23:59] <eviljames> So, you have folder C:\temp on the Host (real) machine.  You want to provide it to the guest so that when you copy a file from your guest machine, it appears on the host machine.
[23:59] <eviljames> (yes, technically, all the files from the guest are on the host, but they're buried in a disk image, let's not go there...)
[23:59] <Red-Raven> ok. sorry, i know we're kind of on the role, but my parents are calling me for dinner. ill save the log or something.
[23:59] <eviljames> The Guest OS has to mount the provided folder as a _network_ share (samba / Windows File Sharing) and then write to it that way.