/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/10/#ubuntu-ops.txt

rwwIdleOne: indeed02:57
IdleOneerrr, libreoffice just crashed on me :/02:59
rwwbeta software is beta ;P03:00
IdleOneindeed03:00
IdleOnebut it waited till I was almost done editing to go and forget what I had done03:01
ryaxnbtonyyarusso, you were talking with rww about +q ing me03:43
ryaxnband then topyli denied knowing anything and un qed me03:43
ryaxnbthat seems a bit... unethical and against the irc code.03:43
IdleOneryaxnb: like tsimpson told you yesterday? if there is an issue with the behavior of one or more of the ops email the IRCC with links to relevant logs and they will look into it.03:44
ryaxnbtsimpson, said it would be fine to talk to them last i talked to him :)03:45
ryaxnbhes not here now03:45
ryaxnbi specifically remember tsimpson saying  i could do it, i asked him03:45
IdleOnetrue you can speak to them about it.03:45
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (bullgard4 appears to be abusive - 4.5)03:45
ryaxnbso then do you have a problem with me pinging him here?03:46
ryaxnbapparently hes either not here or hiding03:46
ryaxnbso im gonna part in a minute or two03:46
ryaxnbbut since hes not marked away, i figured i should try...03:46
IdleOneperhaps send a PM to rww and/ort tonyyarusso03:46
ryaxnbok03:46
IdleOneno I have no issue with you pinging them here03:46
ryaxnbok03:47
ryaxnbcya03:47
rwwI already replied to him pinging me in -ot the other day. Dunno what he wants, or if he just didn't get my reply.\04:06
IdleOneyup I saw it. I'm thinking you might want to talk to him in here, just so it is on the record.04:08
ryaxnbhello rww04:09
rwwhi04:10
rwwHere's the message you missed the other day:04:10
rww#ubuntu-offtopic freenode2011-01-08.log:02:14:04 < rww> ryaxnb: The reasons why I quieted you are outlined in the irclogs.ubuntu.com page you linked. I do not plan to apologize for what I consider to be valid reasoning.04:10
ryaxnbso why did you do that, and do you have any sort of justification at all? it violates the irc rules, and the reasons given in Mr. Log make nonsense04:10
rwwIf you have questions about that page you linked, feel free to ask them. If you take issue with my handling of the situation, please contact the IRCC.04:10
ryaxnbi havent violated nay Ubuntu policy that i know of04:10
ryaxnbid like to know what policy i violated04:11
rwwryaxnb: I explained why I did that on the log file you've already linked. I assume you read that page/04:11
ryaxnbi did04:11
ryaxnbyou said something about not participating04:11
rwwthen I'm not sure why you're asking me which policy I think you violated, since I said that there.04:11
ryaxnbi did not know that was part of the rules, and besides i try to04:11
rww"tonyyarusso: considering his tendency to ramble about stuff not even #ubuntu-offtopic can find interesting, the fact that he's been asked not to do so repeatedly, and the fact that he seemingly doesn't care that he's annoying other people, I think he passed the threshold of violating "don't be annoying" months ago."04:11
rwwfor example04:11
ryaxnbof course i care im annoying other people04:12
ryaxnbthats why i stop rambling when asked, generally.04:12
ryaxnb:)04:12
rwwConsidering that you've been asked to change your behavior and have not, I find this hard to believe.04:12
ryaxnbi have changed my behavior04:12
ryaxnbwhen was the last time i talked about flashlights?04:12
ryaxnblong time ago04:12
rww2011-01-01, which was the day before I quieted you.04:13
ryaxnbi stopped as i was not finding a response, same with wii (for the most part) and many other topics04:13
ryaxnbi never seriously talked about them or rambled endlessly, though04:13
ryaxnbim not one to do that anymore, im tired of getting pigged on for being the rambler and have been working to change that image04:13
ryaxnbive been trying to respond more to other posts.... and critique and discuss points of view04:14
ryaxnb:)04:14
rwwHad I seen an improvement, I wouldn'04:14
rwwt have quieted you.04:14
ryaxnbwell perhaps you had already decided on me and weren't really looking!04:14
ryaxnbthats IMHO of course04:14
rwwAnd incidentally, "I stop when asked" isn't really relevant, since you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Every other regular in that channel knows how to have a conversation.04:14
ryaxnband i tend to to04:15
ryaxnbi often start out in the channel by querying other people about what they are chatting about and going on that04:15
rwwryaxnb: Yes, it's entirely possible that I and the two other ops that replied when I asked about you, and the other ops that didn't object to me quieting you, are wrong.04:15
rwwHowever, I do not think this is the case. You're welcome to disagree, and you've been informed of the appeals process if you want to take ity.04:15
ryaxnbno, but i want to let you know that i am working to improve, and i would appreciate if you have any further complaints about my behavior, you talk to me04:16
ryaxnbthen you take action after. :)04:16
ryaxnbthanks for chatting, even if i didnt get the answer i wanted, i got the message across, ya know?04:16
rwwThe problem with this is that the significant number of other times people have talked to you about your behavior, you haven't changed it. But hey, maybe the n+1 time will be different. topyli removed the quiet I set, and I trust his judgement more than my own (since he's been opping forever), so we'll see.04:17
ryaxnb:/04:18
ryaxnbseeya04:18
rwwbye04:18
rww@mark #ubuntu-ops ryaxnb discussion between ryaxnb and rww about his +q, marked in case this goes to IRCC in the future04:19
ubottuThe operation succeeded.04:19
Amaranthwe should always do that04:19
IdleOnedo @mark's?04:20
Amaranthyeah04:20
IdleOnethey are useful04:20
IdleOnebut I wish we could get more @comments on bans04:20
rwwnhandler: on a rather relevant note, I read that document you linked during the IRCC meeting recently, and will be adjusting my behavior accordingly04:20
rwwIdleOne: I comment all of mine. Makes things a lot easier on my horrible memory.04:21
IdleOnerww: same here. I try to make the reasoning clear so that the next op doesn't need to go looking up logs04:22
rwwHrm. So tech support in -offtopic is now in a similar situation to !o4o? Not banned, but stop it if someone asks you to?04:27
IdleOneseems so.04:29
rwwCould just combine them. "war, race, religion, technical support" (j/k) ;)04:29
IdleOneI would say it depends on the mood of the channel at the time.04:29
IdleOneif most of the active users are discussing the support issue then let it be.04:30
rwwso does !o4o though, imho. We get into politics and religion in there and have no trouble if there's a sensible mood. The newfangled !o4o rule is good that way.04:30
IdleOneyup04:30
* rww is realizing over time that change is not always a bad thing, should consider protesting less >.>04:30
IdleOnechange is good, when it is good04:31
IdleOneI think we can improve the channel and still maintain order without being to fanatical about it.04:31
* IdleOne is trying this new "grow as a person thing"04:32
rwwOne thing about -ot that I'm seeing more on this side of the fence is that you need to take things on a case-by-case basis, a lot more so than other channels.04:33
IdleOnethere are a lot more variables in -ot then most channels04:33
IdleOnewe tend to tease each other, so knowing when something is playful or hurtful requires a more hands on approach I guess. Not sure I am making any sense but I know what I mean.04:35
rwwThe line's a lot more blurry in there, which causes headaches.04:37
elkymaybe s/but trolling, baiting, hostility or repetition are not/but trolling, baiting, hostility, repetition or being annoying are not/04:52
elkymay however be too long for the rfc though04:53
rwwWouldn't help much, though. All the regulars in -ot (myself included) have blinders on that stop them from noticing when they're annoying >.>04:54
mneptokjust assume you always are. helps in marriage.04:54
rwwyou should tell that to snuxoll.04:55
elkyrww, sure, but we're ass covering. if you're told repeatedly you're annoying by more than just a few people, then you're annoying. "stop when asked to stop" doesn't help when the topic changes for each instance of annoyingness04:55
rww"Don't be annoying" is already in the Guidelines, though, and nobody pays attention to it anyway.04:56
elkymost can recite o4o though04:56
rwwor, to be more precise, it's not liberally interpreted04:56
elkyhence why we /have/ o4o. it's the tl;dr-safe version.04:56
rwwtrue04:57
h00krww: I'm glad you didn't mention me for the whole blinder/marriage thing04:58
rwwh00k: I forgot about you, you're not around enough ;P04:58
elkyh00k, you got engaged only yesterday?04:59
h00krww: you hate me :(04:59
h00kelky: no :-)04:59
h00kelky: back in July04:59
elkyh00k, that's why snuxoll matters. he's way more noob than you. you've had 6mths of advice already04:59
h00kthat doesn't make me pro-leet yet ;)05:00
rwwyou've been engaged for as long as snuxoll's been dating!05:00
elkynah, but it makes snuxoll much more fun to 'splain to.05:00
elkylol05:00
h00kI understand05:00
h00k:D05:00
h00kDid he set a date?05:00
elkyi did wonder why we hadn't seen him since mid last year05:00
rwwI thought maybe the dragons had won.05:01
elkyrww, see -ot, he's started again already05:01
h00kAre you guys talking about someone doing homework through -ot?05:02
rwwIf you mean gidimanunaki, that isn't homework, it's gbrainey.05:02
elkyh00k, no, mr xb braindumping.05:02
elkyerm. xnb*05:02
h00koh no.05:02
h00kyeah.05:02
h00k'xb' and 'braindump' was enough for that association05:03
elky"i like thing. what do you like about thing"05:03
h00k"xyz is detailed specifics about thing. 123 are oppinions on the history and future of thing"05:04
elkywell, to be more comprehensive "i like thing. what do you like about thing. i like this about thing"05:04
elkythough, with a few returns thrown in05:04
rwwI'm doing badly at my new years resolution of staying out of the top 25 on the #ubuntu-offtopic stats. This is helping.05:04
elkyhah05:05
elkydude, you're not supposed to say resolutions out loud!05:05
IdleOneI think we need to give him a break. he asked a question about a current/ongoing event. I mean if we are going to jump on his every word we may as well ban him now.05:05
h00kOh, I'm probably *way* down05:05
elkyIdleOne, hence why we haven't actually jumped on him05:05
elkyIdleOne, just noting the lack of change and bracing for the impending cascade of "shut him uuuuupppp!"05:06
rwwh00k: 25th, actually. tonyyarusso and I reset for the new year.05:06
h00kbah!05:06
IdleOneelky: you are assuming the worst.05:06
rwwh00k: ( !stats-#ubuntu-offtopic has the links, if you care ;)05:06
elkyIdleOne, no, not even close.05:07
h00kNice.05:07
rwwwhich reminds me, I need to look into fixing pisg a little. some of the stats use total lines, not total spoken lines (so includes joins, parts, etc.), which means netsplits make things all wonky.05:08
h00kalso, hackergotchis!05:09
elkyfrom launchpad?05:09
h00ksure05:09
rwwwill probably go raid Planet for them at some point05:09
h00koh, mine isn't my floating head on LP. it is on planet!05:09
elkyrww, launchpad would be more comprehensive05:09
rwwelky: true, but I'm lazy05:09
elkyand has irc nicks listed05:10
rwwplus a lot of the -ot regulars don't have LP accounts, or don't have photos set on them05:14
rwwgoing down the list, the ones I know do are mostly all members05:15
elkywhere were you goign to get the hackergotchis from then? if they're not members, then they're not on planet...05:16
rwwiirc, lhavelund did Planet + self-submissions when he added them05:17
lhavelundIwhat05:17
elkyalso, some might actually add themselves to lp if they have a reason, like getting a picture show up on the page05:17
rwwlhavelund: pictures on pisg05:17
lhavelundoh, yes.05:17
rwwand then server broke and they disappeared, so I can't just steal the old ones ;P05:17
elkyyou could even be evil and have a sekrit facebook mapper...05:18
elkythat'd scare people, lol05:18
rwwI wish freenode had some sort of authentication API for nickserv. Would be nice to make a page where you log in via that and then can put in nicks, photo, homepage, etc.05:19
elkythat's what they're aiming for with GMS05:20
elkymaybe not quite that deep, but i doubt they'll turn down you helping them achieve that :P05:20
rwwI wish I had the time and experience for it :P05:21
tonyyarussoYou'll have to write it in Perl too :(05:21
tonyyarussoSilly Freenode.05:21
rwwI like perl! Never used it for webapps, though.05:21
tonyyarussoGMS is in perl.05:23
* h00k waves to anyone reading the logs05:23
rwwI know, jussi already tried to recruit everyone who speak perl to help with it ;P05:23
tonyyarussoOr rather, theoretically will be, once it's written in 2037, just in time for the Great Crash.05:23
elkylol05:23
tonyyarussoMaybe if they picked a language people actually knew they'd get volunteers, eh?05:24
rwwmaybe they should do a rewrite in Ruby on Rails!05:24
elkyit was once upon a time going to be php with xml-rpc05:24
elkyso it can theoretically be done with anything that can plug on to xml-rpc.05:24
tonyyarussoImplement xml-rpc in fortran!05:25
rwwget chu_ and ldunn to do it in Haskell!05:25
Myrttiyou people...05:43
ubottuJontheEchidna called the ops in #ubuntu-motu ()06:11
nigelbHi06:12
nigelbJust dropped by the say there's a troll in #ubuntu-motu...06:12
rwwYeah, ubottu dropped a note here about the ops factoid call. I don't know if anyone with access is around.06:14
nigelbah :/06:14
Jordan_UCan freenode ops help in #ubuntu-motu?06:15
nigelbelky has access06:15
rwwyes, but she's idle06:15
nigelboh :(06:15
rww!staff | If you're not busy, can you remove Quex01 from -motu?06:15
ubottuIf you're not busy, can you remove Quex01 from -motu?: hey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, Pricey, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)06:15
* nigelb parts06:16
Tm_Thmm, I has no rights there either06:19
rwwelky: thanks :)06:19
Tm_Toh, good06:20
Jordan_UWas OMGWTFBBQ in #ubuntu trying (and failing) to do something malicious?09:24
Myrttiyeah09:24
Jordan_UShould I kickban them?09:25
Tm_The was trying to send himself to us, simple /j would have worked better09:25
Jordan_UMyrtti: Thanks.09:26
Myrttinp09:26
Myrttijust paying back a favour09:26
nigelbHi, the troll from #ubuntu-motu is now in #ubuntu-community-team09:54
nigelbI'm guessing we'll need staff or jussi for that one.09:55
Hobbseenigelb: jono/jcastro may be around by now.09:55
Hobbseeactually, no they won't09:55
nigelbHobbsee: Isn't there a sprint?09:55
elkyit09:56
Hobbseenigelb: yeah, but it's also the middle of the night in the US.  got timezones confused09:56
elkyit's 2am US eastern, isn't the sprint in texas?09:56
elkyerrr.. us western09:56
nigelbYeah, Dallas09:56
Hobbseeyeah09:57
nigelbunless someone wakes up at 509:57
nigelbnot sure who's on the council, but jussi could solve all problems :p09:57
elkyjussi, should appear soon if he hasn't already.09:57
nigelbWell, since you folks know, I guess I should part.09:58
nigelbktxbai09:58
elkythe other council probably need to look up details, and i think only jussi and tsimpson are in awake zones. aim for staff09:58
popeywe need more ops in -community-team09:59
nigelbI agree.09:59
nigelbShould I ask in #freenode?10:00
topylinigelb: let me see10:00
nigelb\o/10:01
kloeriI'm mostly around if staff is needed - just hilight me10:04
elkykloeri, can you sort it out, or do you need one of the GCs to ask you?10:06
topyliwow i'm slow without scripts :)10:07
elkytopyli, so you managed?10:08
topyliyeah10:08
topylikloeri: sorted10:08
elkykloeri, also judging from chatter in -irc, he was attacking elsewhere yesterday10:09
Myrttiif they're a persistent pest, perhaps k-line would be in order...10:09
topyliyes -motu apparently10:09
popeyhmm, surprised how many people dont lurk in -community-team10:09
MyrttiI think there was some activity by them/it/he/she at #freenode/#ubuntu yesterday10:10
Myrttican't remember which10:10
Myrttiheadaches make my brain swiss cheese10:10
elkyMmm, cheese.10:10
kloeriI can sort things out if staff is on access list - if staff isn't on access I'd need a GC request (in most cases at least)10:11
elkykloeri, cool. we have staff on our channels pretty much as standard. LoCos are probably the least standardised group of channels10:20
kloerinod10:21
kloeriif you have problems in some channel that staff isn't on acl for I'm willing to bend rules a bit and act _if_ it's sufficiently bad but that will be on a case by case judgement of course10:23
kloerijust because I have some powers doesn't mean I should use them :)10:24
kloeriif I was meant to use my powers as much as possible I'd be rehubbing the network and restarting servers all the time :P10:25
elkyYeah, the daily urge to clear -ot is a common feeling to us too10:26
kloeriheh10:28
MyrttiI just have the constant urge to invent faceslap over IP10:28
Myrttijust so I could slap the people I have trouble enduring with.10:28
elkyNot naming any cow-orkers, of course :P10:31
kloeriI just want to slap my boss right now.. but that might be a career limiting move10:31
Myrttiyou don't really even want to know what I've endured with the past six months10:31
Myrttithe pain of stupidity has been more than usual, and that's said a lot10:32
elkybrb, shops run.10:32
kloeriI also want to slap Debian10:33
ubottuom26er called the ops in #ubuntu (aa074)10:36
Tm_Tsomeone want to slap me too?10:48
* Tm_T doesn't want to feel outsider10:49
* knome touches Tm_T gently10:56
jpds 10:57
knomei love the unpleasant silence10:58
knomei'd like that in facebook as well if i was signed in10:58
elkyChocolate for popey? http://www.robertdyas.co.uk/product.php?product_id=149817&source=froogle13:21
Myrttiew, marmite13:28
jussiAfternoon all... finally found time to open the irc client - been a busy day13:53
jussikloeri: you do realise this channel is publically logged :P13:54
oCeanjust wondering..  is it (still?) policy to actively discourage (use of) public /away messages or nick-changes?13:59
oCeanit seems that some people get upset by being told so, and others ignoring the !afk request altogether, which makes it even more awkward for the users that did change.14:00
AmaranthoCean: Yes, it's still the policy to discourage such things14:02
AmaranthoCean: Ideally you wouldn't say anything when you go away but if you're involved in a discussion it can be appropriate to tell those people you are going away14:02
AmaranthOtherwise don't do it :)14:02
oCeanand "report" users that don't change their habits? Or just leave them be14:02
oCeanthere are still a quite a couple of "regulars" in #u that nick-change to whatever|away when leaving14:03
AmaranthoCean: If you don't listen tell us14:03
oCeanthing is, I don't want to be the only one nagging others about it, if it's not really an issue.14:05
oCeanDon't take this as an away announcement, but I'll be leaving now :)14:07
popeyelky: http://twitpic.com/39p2yg :)14:08
popeyand it's pretty disgusting14:09
Amaranth*shudder*14:14
jussilol14:20
jussi!away14:20
ubottuYou should avoid noisy away messages and -nicks in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also «/msg ubottu Guidelines»14:20
jussiAmaranth: that mightve been useful ;)14:20
kloerijussi: I do :)14:38
Myrtti[17:57] < Shishire_> Whoever needs to already knows about the  ubuntuforums thing?15:58
Myrtti"informative"15:59
MyrttiTEN POINTS!15:59
IdleOnewas that a question or an answer?16:05
Myrttiit was the only thing they said16:07
h00kIdleOne: both.16:09
MyrttiE_MAKENOSENSE16:09
gnomefreak!staff see #freenode please16:46
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)16:46
gnomefreakwhat the hell happened to !staff factoid?16:46
Myrttinothing16:47
Myrttiyou are just using it wrong16:47
gnomefreakoh i cant add any info to it16:47
gnomefreak!staff16:47
ubottuhey Christel, Dave2, Gary, KB1JWQ, Levia, Martinp23, Pricey, SportsChick, VorTechS, jayne, jenda, marienz, nalioth, niko, nhandler, rob, stew or tomaw, I could use a bit of your time :)16:47
Myrttiand there are staff members active there, so...16:47
gnomefreakyep thats it. thanks Myrtti16:47
Myrttipinging them all is pointless16:47
gnomefreakthere wasnt16:47
Myrttinot even RichiH?16:48
gnomefreaksorry i see someone killed one of them.16:49
gnomefreakyes he is active. i didnt know he was staff16:49
gnomefreaksorry for the ping everyone16:49
Myrttiyou can, btw, add more info with the | sign separating the factoid16:49
gnomefreakah thanks16:52
Dave2.win 4116:57
IdleOneError: Permission Denied.16:57
Myrtti.fail 4216:57
gnomefreaksorry again for the pings. feel free to yell at me more in ~2 hours ;)17:02
Dave2far more fail than 42.17:03
jpdsDave2: at 42 surely?17:03
Myrttimy brain hurts17:13
jayneubottu has a highlight for us?18:04
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)18:04
jayne(It's too many nicks in one line to trigger a highlight for me, btw)18:04
gnomefreakwhat trigger?18:35
IdleOnethe !staff trigger18:50
gnomefreakah18:54
gnomefreakyes that was my fault, well at least using it was my fault18:54
gnomefreaki would suggest we remove some names from the hilight but i dont think that is the best idea, example: if we remove the name jayne from !staff and you are only one in that list that is online than it doesnt help us when its needed18:56
gnomefreakremove names if that person asked not just randomly18:56
Tm_Tuh oh19:19
Tm_Tand that said, good night all19:28
Myrttihi robinbowes22:29
Myrttiwhat brings you here?22:29
robinbowesHmm, not sure - I got thrown in here when I started Xchat22:29
Myrttiright22:29
Myrttilet me have a look22:30
Myrtti!give22:30
* robinbowes gives Myrtti some wire22:30
robinbowesOooo, I'm banned from #ubuntu for some reaosn22:30
Myrttiturn that off22:30
robinbowesHrm, I'm not sure how it was turned on22:32
AmaranthWhat is that even for?22:33
MyrttiAmaranth: comedy value22:33
robinbowesIt's random quotes - something to do with Uberscript22:33
robinbowesMust be turned on by default22:33
robinbowesOK, that should be off now22:38
Myrtti!give22:38
Myrttilooks good22:38
robinbowesI turned off "fun stuff"22:38
Myrttiwhat client are you actually using?22:38
Myrttiis that xchat?22:38
robinbowesYes - 2.8.822:39
robinbowesWith Uberscript extension22:39
* robinbowes is still banned from #ubuntu22:40
Myrttiyeah, sorry, had to actually search for the ban to undo it22:40
Myrttishould be fine now22:40
robinbowesyeah, thanks22:41
robinbowesI don't visit very often, but when I do it's usually quite urgent :)22:41
robinbowes(I use mostly RH-flavours of Linux, but have the odd client with Ubuntu LTS)22:41
robinbowesAnyway - getting rather O/T now - I shall bow out22:41
Myrttithanks22:42
robinbowesThanks for bringing that to my attention.22:42
Myrttirww had actually apparently asked you to turn it off22:42
Myrttibut better late than never22:42
robinbowesI didn't see the msg22:42
robinbowesSorted now though22:42
robinbowesttfn22:42
Myrttitata22:42

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