[02:48] <ailo> holstein: How are things going?
[02:50] <holstein> not bad ailo :)
[02:50] <holstein> and you
[02:50] <holstein> ?
[02:51] <ailo> Fine. Just recovering from my aunties birthday party. Did you do any more firewire testing?
[02:51] <holstein> not yet
[02:52] <holstein> i have some things i need to mix down
[02:52] <holstein> i'll try and do some of the work over in natty
[02:53] <holstein> with the -lowlatency kernel
[02:53] <holstein> see how the performance is
[02:53] <ailo> Sounds like a good idea.
[02:53] <ailo> Live mixes?
[02:54] <holstein> well, we recorded live
[02:54] <holstein> at a friends house
[02:55] <holstein> i put it up for the singer to check out
[02:55] <holstein> a rough mix of the whole session
[02:55] <holstein> just one big track
[02:55] <holstein> http://holstein.shacknet.nu/melody/
[02:55] <ailo> Nice vocals
[02:58] <holstein> ailo: yeahh
[02:58] <holstein> she's alright
[02:58] <holstein> im not crazy about the material
[02:58] <holstein> but its not bad
[02:58] <ailo> Sounds very traditional.
[02:59] <holstein> its in the neighborhood of what i do
[03:51] <holstein> raonyguimaraes: are you on the mailing list?
[03:51] <holstein> the IRC channels tend to be a bit dead
[03:51] <holstein> mailing list are more active
[03:52] <raonyguimaraes> not yet, I will subscribe where I can see what's going on ?
[03:52] <holstein> ScottL is who you need to talk to
[03:52] <raonyguimaraes> ok thank you
[03:52] <holstein> let me get some links going
[03:53] <holstein> raonyguimaraes: are you already a buntu dev?
[03:53] <raonyguimaraes> not really, I just use ubuntu for a long time and decided to start helping... 
[03:53] <holstein> cool
[03:54] <holstein> i was trying to decide what i can link you
[03:54] <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio
[03:55] <raonyguimaraes> let me take a look
[03:56] <holstein> you'll want
[03:56] <holstein> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
[03:56] <holstein> maybe the users list https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users
[03:58] <holstein> raonyguimaraes: welcome :)
[03:58] <holstein> might take a bit to figure out what going on
[03:59] <holstein> ScottL is quite active
[03:59] <holstein> if you can hang for a bit, or check back
[04:00] <holstein> raonyguimaraes: you might also want to find and meet falktx
[04:00] <holstein> the KXstudio guy
[04:00] <raonyguimaraes> I saw his blog and some video he made as well
[04:09] <raonyguimaraes> thank you holstein ...
[04:10] <raonyguimaraes> Where I can read the e-mails that were sent ?
[04:11] <holstein> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/ maybe?
[04:11] <holstein> raonyguimaraes: i wouldnt sweat it too much
[04:11] <holstein> hopefully we'll make some new news soon :)
[04:11] <raonyguimaraes> great
[04:30] <ScottL> raonyguimaraes, hi, i wanted to touch base with you to say that i am very interested and excited that you want to help us :)
[04:30] <raonyguimaraes> cool man :) hope I can help !
[04:31] <ScottL> raonyguimaraes, unfortunately, i need to go to bed already, but i will be around for most of the day tomorrow and will try to catch you then and we can talk further
[04:31] <raonyguimaraes> all right ... I will be online tomorrow and almost 24h this week !
[04:31] <raonyguimaraes> Good night!
[04:31] <holstein> w00t :)
[14:11] <ScottL> i found bugs for the "drop to sigterm" during installation and for a kernel panic during installation that i have been experiencing trying to get a natty installation so i can fix the "unity/gnome-session" issue
[14:16] <ScottL> hi rlameiro , how are you this morning?
[14:17] <rlameiro> sleepy but great
[14:17] <rlameiro> its raining... I hate when it rains so much but welll, what to do
[14:17] <rlameiro>  :D
[14:44] <ScottL> previous couple of days had been raining for us, i'm glad today wasn't since i took my daughter to school this morning
[14:44]  * ScottL is taking a week of vacation this week :)
[14:47] <rlameiro> ScottL: great
[14:47] <ScottL> hi Raony, i have some time right now to talk when you are ready
[14:48] <ScottL> rlameiro, yeah, i'm hoping to make some progress for natty _if-i-can-get-a-working-install-of-natty-running_  :madface:
[14:49] <rlameiro> yeah
[14:49] <rlameiro> I will try to test some firewire also. lets see what happens
[14:50] <ScottL> rlameiro: holstein and ailo have been working on it pretty diligently, you might talk to them first and see where they are at
[14:50] <ScottL> apparently firewire has been broken since maverick :(
[14:50] <rlameiro> yeah. i need to test it with my edirol
[14:51] <rlameiro> My usb card is broken in maverick too, didnt had a chanve to test it on natty yet
[14:51] <rlameiro> *chance
[14:54] <ScottL> i also think that the tasksel is broken (or at least fracture) in natty as well
[14:54] <ScottL> from what i've seen it looks like there are more choices than were intended :(
[14:54] <ScottL> more fun to work through :/
[15:06] <ailo> It would be great to get to the bottom of that. The picture I have so fat is, that firewire does not work on either Maverick or Natty without Aboganis -lowlatency kernel for Natty.
[15:07] <ailo> (..so far* is,..)
[15:09] <ailo> But, I suppose the generic kernel on Natty is not to be recommended anyway, because of RT_GROUP_SCHED being enabled
[15:14] <ailo> A guy on ffado mail list claims that he had no problems getting his audiofire card working on Maverick, but that the firewire mixer won't work with that version of ffado.
[15:27] <ScottL> ailo, i'm glad you understand more of that than i do :)
[15:31] <ailo> ScottL: Don't know if I understand so much, more so I'm just collecting info to try determine which works and which doesn't. Interesting to see if realtime will be accessed in a different way with future jack releases. As for firewire, I have no idea why it's not working on Maverick.
[15:32] <ailo> holstein: do you follow what happens on the ffado list?
[15:34] <ScottL> ailo, it has been suggested that ubuntu studio is borked because it doesn't have a dedicated, specialized kernel
[15:34] <ScottL> and i agree with the sentiment, if not the statement
[15:35] <ScottL> but what price for working within ubuntu
[15:36] <abogani> ScottL: borked?
[15:36] <holstein> ailo: eh
[15:36] <holstein> about half
[15:36] <ailo> ScottL: The -lowlatency kernel seems like the perfect allround kernel to replace a generic kernel for music production.
[15:37] <holstein> abogani: o/ :)
[15:37] <ailo> holstein: just looking for a post, hold on.
[15:37] <abogani> ScottL: Which features should that "specialized" kernel offer?
[15:37] <holstein> abogani: i finally have maverick and natty installs for testing kernels
[15:38] <abogani> holstein: :-)
[15:38] <holstein> abogani: you're not planning on RT anymore though right?
[15:38] <holstein> im going to try and do some actual work in natty today with your -lowlatency kernel
[15:38] <ailo> holstein: https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=COL105-W52B12D342E8EDF1F3C84D0900E0%40phx.gbl&forum_name=ffado-user ..
[15:39] <holstein> seems promising with my presonus firepod :)
[15:39] <abogani> holstein: Do you need of it?
[15:39] <ailo> Check one of the last posts, by Richter
[15:39] <holstein> abogani: as of lucid, i did
[15:39] <holstein> in a bad way
[15:39] <holstein> but, your latest -lowlatency might be OK
[15:40] <holstein> and, i think thats the direction we're going
[15:40] <ailo> abogani: I would like to find out, how big the difference between the two is. For live music, we like to have around 5-10 ms latency, which depending on the machine is quite hard to get.
[15:41] <holstein> ailo: wow, ricoh chip in that first post
[15:41] <holstein> i only have one ricoh chip
[15:41] <holstein> and it xruns like crazy
[15:42] <abogani> I'm waiting to update RT kernel because *seems* that finally upstream have decided to update it to (perhaps) 2.6.37.
[15:42] <holstein> ScottL abogani , i like the idea of having the -lowlatency kernel .deb somewhere in natty on the disc
[15:43] <holstein> and -RT too
[15:43] <holstein> if that is still on the table
[15:43] <holstein> abogani: let me know if i can test something here
[15:43] <holstein> i feel like RT is optimal for firewire
[15:44] <abogani> holstein: the maintenance effort for the first one is very low (anyone could do the job) but it very high for -realtime.
[15:44] <abogani> I don't want fight against Ubuntu Kernel Team again.
[15:46] <abogani> As discussed with ScottL we think to provide -realtime in any case but only trought PPA.
[15:46] <holstein> abogani: COOL
[15:47] <holstein> i thought maybe you got frustrated and dropped it
[15:47] <holstein> *understandably so
[15:48] <ailo> holstein: I was thinking of the problems searching with firewire, to try determine why it is not working
[15:49] <ailo> On a post Richter gives a couple of commands to try determine what is wrong
[15:49] <ailo> There's also an alternative command to start jackd
[15:49] <holstein> i suppose i could try them
[15:50] <ailo> If you have time to poke around with firewire on both Maverick and Natty, maybe you could contact the guys over there
[15:50] <holstein> all i did was change to abogani 's kernel
[15:50] <holstein> and boom
[15:50] <holstein> it worked
[15:50] <ailo> Could be something simple
[15:51] <ailo> Would be great to have it in writing, so to speak.
[15:51] <holstein> yup, agreed
[15:51] <holstein> i'll see how envolved i can get with that
[15:52] <holstein> seems like rlameiro has more time now too
[15:52] <holstein> to help with FW testing
[15:52] <ailo> I will try to get asmo involved too
[15:53] <ailo> Gotta walk the dog. Nice chatting again..
[15:53] <holstein> ailo: w00t :)
[16:14] <ScottL> abogani, i mean that it takes additional tweaking to "fix" it so that it works
[16:15] <ScottL> abogani, and it would be one aspect if there was a initial script that brought up a dialouge box and said "Make it AWESOME!  Just click this button"
[16:15] <ScottL> abogani, and -rt or -lowlatency was installed, settings were adjusted, and firewire works like bananas
[16:16] <ScottL> abogani, so it isn't so much additional features as it is the rest of the kernel flags perhaps set judicially to work better for audio
[16:16]  * ScottL is still readind backscroll
[16:17] <ScottL> holstein, we can only include packages on the disc that are in the repositories
[16:19] <ailo> ScottL: I think the Ubuntustudio controls could do that. Haven't started doing anything yet, but at least firewire should be no problem to set up.
[16:19] <ScottL> abogani, some of the problem might be the new kernel and ffado stack which understandably will need some tweaking under the hood after it's first implementation
[16:19] <ScottL> ailo, you will have a "make it AWESOME!" button ;)
[16:20] <ailo> ScottL: There could be some "system test" thing on it, if one wants.
[16:20] <ScottL> ailo, i kid, but i do seriously thank you for looking into it :)
[16:21] <holstein> ScottL: how can we get around that
[16:21] <holstein> ?
[16:22] <holstein> im seeing some F.U.D.
[16:22] <holstein> on the mailing list
[16:22] <holstein> that i tend to agree with in a small way
[16:23] <ailo> I would like to determine what the problem is with firewire first, since it does not really need any more tweaing than before, at least on Aboganis kernel.
[16:23] <ailo> twaking*
[16:23] <ailo> tweaking*
[16:26] <ScottL> ailo, can you run a diff between -generic source and abogani's -lowlatency kernel?
[16:27] <ScottL> ailo, we can expect some differences of course, some of the other changes might provide us with clues
[16:27] <ScottL> ailo, just a suggestion
[16:27] <ailo> ScottL: From what I understand, Aboganis kernel is the generic kernel, but configured differently. There are some options before compilation that are done differently.
[16:28] <ailo> So, it's not patched. It doesn't include any extra code
[16:28] <ScottL> holstein, i think the currently most viable method to include other kernels is to have a PPA setup with ubuntustudio-controls (or other methodology) enable the repo
[16:28] <ScottL> ailo, hmmm, i think you are right :(
[16:31] <holstein> ScottL: we can have abogani 's PPA setup out of the box?
[16:34] <ailo> Scott: Or is -lowlatency a vanilla kernel, in which case it doesn't include Ubuntu Scpecific stuff? Trying to find that out.
[16:34] <ScottL> holstein, i think we would need to adjust a package to add it to sources.list
[16:35] <ScottL> holstein, this may not be the only install vector, perhaps persia, jussi, JuniperJaxx, paultag, or TheMuso might have a different answer
[16:35] <ailo> ScottL: Can't we add things like that to Ubuntustudio settings? PPA's, that is.
[16:36] <ailo> Then try to do some kind of wizard, that let's you install the kernel.
[16:37] <ailo> Though, adding the PPA's can also be done from a wizard.
[16:39] <ailo> Well, Abogani could of course clarify this to us some more, but since the -lowlatency kernel is listed here, I assume it is a reconfigured Ubuntu kernel, not a Vanilla kernel.
[16:39] <ailo> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git
[16:54] <ailo> ScottL: We could just start with making a script, that adds the user to audio group, fixes firewire, makes sure /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf exists. All the basic stuff. Once we have all the desired functions in place, we decide where or how to add them.
[16:55] <ailo> Also, adding PPA and installing kernel
[16:56] <ailo> Ending with a reboot..
[17:05] <ScottL> ailo, that could be inlcuded in the ubuntustudio-controls package, this could also include a gui to moderate these settings as well
[17:07] <ailo> ScottL: Actually, I see all of this is already been proposed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign
[17:07] <ailo> But, a script would still be the best place to start, to do testing and so on.
[17:11] <ailo> The ultimate solution I think would be to get a popup when starting jackd and something in the system was not properly set up. qjackctl can use a script at startup to do that.
[17:13] <ailo> I'm not an expert in scripting, but I can mock something up. I'll get back on that.
[17:18] <ScottL> ailo, cool :)  i look forward to seeing what you come up with