[15:39] <ScottL>  hi AutoStatic  :)
[15:39] <AutoStatic> Hello ScottL
[15:40] <ScottL> abogani, my comments yesterday were not directed at your work, i want you to understand that
[15:41] <ScottL> abogani, they are more derived from frustration of not being able to include a kernel that we know works and works well with -rt
[15:41] <ScottL> abogani, of course some of the current issues might be derived by a confluence of activities including the new firewire stack and the cgroups issues
[15:42] <ScottL> ailo,  how is your work on -controls moving along?
[15:42] <ScottL> astraljava, are you getting close to helping with backporting?  i think in a week i'll be in full swing for it :)
[15:43] <ScottL> morning paultag  :)
[15:43] <paultag> morning ScottL :)
[15:44] <paultag> ScottL: How goes, my friend?
[15:44]  * abogani waves all
[15:45] <paultag> heyya ab	
[15:45] <ScottL> persia, still no movement on the new kernel documentation for getting -lowlatency into natty :(
[15:45] <paultag> abogani *
[15:45] <paultag> ScottL: damn, still?
[15:45] <ScottL> paultag, i'm doing well, taking a week of vacation and hoping to get some ubuntu studio development done :)
[15:45] <paultag> ScottL: :)
[15:46] <abogani> ScottL: I accept any types of comments. :-)
[15:46] <ScottL> paultag, yes, i'm getting a little frustrated with it myself and worried that the -lowlatency will not make it into natty :(
[15:46] <paultag> it's getting really late
[15:46] <paultag> ScottL: is anyone on the kernel team engaged with it?
[15:47] <ScottL> abogani, i know you readily receive any comments :) 
[15:47] <ScottL> abogani, part of my frustration derives from the combination of having to align kernels with desktop and then not having -lowlatency in the repos
[15:48] <ScottL> abogani, the second is from new and unexpected problems, but that is something we can work through and can't really be expected to be resolved before we experience them
[15:48] <ScottL> paultag, yes, but i forget his name and can't find the blueprint currently, although i have it bookmarked _somewhere_
[15:48] <paultag> ScottL: humm
[15:49] <ScottL> paultag,  apparently it's andy whitecraft
[15:50] <ScottL> whitcroft
[15:50] <paultag> ah
[15:50] <ScottL> the bug is: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hardware-kernel-n-version-and-flavours
[15:51] <ScottL> err, not bug but blueprint
[15:52] <abogani> I suspect that JFo and diwic are also informed about that.
[15:52] <paultag> ScottL: just had a talk in another channel about it abogani 
[15:52]  * JFo reads back
[15:52] <paultag> wow, that was an odd ping
[15:53] <ScottL> paultag,  the is the  part:  [apw] document how to build a new derivative flavour/branch:TODO
[15:53] <ScottL> this provides a vector for us to get -lowlatency into the repos so it can ship on the ubuntu studio disc
[15:53] <paultag> ScottL: looks like the kerenel work is on us, not the kernel tea
[15:53] <paultag> team *
[15:54] <ScottL> paultag,  yes, but the kernel team was to provide documentation framework to do so that was acceptable with the team
[15:54]  * JFo takes a look at the blueprint
[15:54] <paultag> sorry to rag on you there JFo 
[15:55] <JFo> paultag, no sweat
[15:55] <JFo> :)
[15:55] <paultag> :)
[15:55] <ScottL> JFo, paultag: thank you both for taking time to help work with this :D   i appreciate it
[15:55] <JFo> no problem
[15:56] <JFo> like I told paultag, I only wish I could help you guys more
[15:56] <paultag> ScottL: no problem, I'm in here for a reason :)
[15:56] <paultag> true that.
[15:57]  * JFo has apw here nearby. I will chat with him between meetings to see what the timeline looks like for that documentation
[15:57] <JFo> given the enormous amount of work we are in the middle of anything is possible
[15:57] <paultag> JFo: you're a rockstar, my man. Are you in TX?
[15:57] <JFo> paultag, I am in texas... the rockstar bit is in question though ;-)
[15:58] <paultag> JFo: I've seen those videos
[15:58] <JFo> hahahaha
[15:58] <JFo> my sincere apologies :)
[15:58] <paultag> :P
[15:58] <paultag> hahaha
[15:59] <JFo> ScottL, I suspect the documentation may have more to do with where to put the derivative in the archives etc. but I will get a full description.
[16:01] <ScottL> JFo, i'm also in texas, montgomery actually which is to the west of conroe or northwest of houston
[16:01] <paultag> JFo: in theory applying the patch should be the easy part. In theory.
[16:02] <ScottL> JFo,  re: documentation, that sounds like what i expected from my conversations with persia, it wasn't a HOWTO but more of "this is the form that we would like to see it"
[16:03] <ScottL> paultag, my understanding from abogani is that the -lowlatency kernel doesn't require a patch
[16:03] <JFo> paultag, not from what I have seen :-/. The patch is huge, but it is also very version specific. There is an effort to have all of the rt bits in each kernel in, hopefully, 5 releases or so
[16:03] <JFo> but I think upstream is being optimistic
[16:04] <ScottL> paultag, JFo:   i don't think we are trying to get the -rt kernel into the repositories, i think we only focusing on the -lowlatency currently
[16:04] <JFo> right
[16:04] <ScottL> paultag, JFo: therefore i believe there shouldn't be a patch required
[16:04] <paultag> really?
[16:05] <abogani> really
[16:05] <JFo> but when I inquired at plumber's thinking I could help somehow, I was told that the lowlatency had a similarly invasive patching scheme
[16:05] <paultag> so it's lieterally just a build flag change?
[16:05] <paultag> literally *
[16:05] <JFo> hmmm
[16:05] <paultag> JFo: I thought so too
[16:06]  * JFo is chatting about it in the team
[16:06] <JFo> one sec...
[16:06] <ScottL> paultag, that is my understanding from abogani, i.e. "just a build flag change"
[16:06] <paultag> damn, cool.
[16:08] <JFo> so there are config changes needed
[16:08] <holstein> ScottL: so, what needs to happen to get -lowlatency in the repo ?
[16:08] <abogani> only
[16:08] <JFo> and several frequency modifications
[16:08] <abogani> ScottL: I must go. Please let me know any news.
[16:08] <paultag> JFo: but that's a simle config delta against stock, right?
[16:08] <holstein> abogani: o/
[16:08] <holstein> laterx
[16:08] <JFo> paultag, seems to be
[16:08] <paultag> humm
[16:08] <JFo> we are still discussing
[16:09] <paultag> sure, JFo. I'm going to run to meet up with some friends for lunch. I'll read back later
[16:09] <paultag> JFo: thanks so much for looking into it, man
[16:09] <paultag> JFo: I owe you a beer, for sure
[16:09] <JFo> my pleasure
[16:09] <paultag> cheers, all!
[16:12] <ScottL> holstein, andy whitcroft was working on documentation for getting kernel derivatives/variants into the repos, but he hasn't completed it yet
[16:12] <ScottL> holstein, but it might be that there was a significant misunderstanding on the request
[16:12] <ScottL> holstein, it appears that the kernel team expected ubuntu studio to require a significant and invasive patch
[16:13] <ScottL> holstein, abogani asserts that only compile time flags needs to be set
[16:13] <ScottL> holstein, hopefully this streamlines the entire process :)
[16:14] <ScottL> again, thank you paultag and JFo , you guys rock! (scottl gives $0.05 to the jono licensing fund)
[16:14] <JFo> lol
[16:15] <JFo> my pleasure ScottL 
[16:21] <holstein> ScottL: this is the kind of disconnect that alio and i have been discussing
[16:22] <holstein> im glad to see some discussion and movement :)
[16:22] <holstein> the current generic kernel is natty is not viable for our needs
[16:22] <ScottL> holstein, yes, i hope this is the break that gets it moving :)
[16:25] <ScottL> holstein, i haven't seen raony since the other night, i hope he comes back and at least tells us why he was frustrated with ubuntu studio
[16:25] <ScottL> we can't address what we don't know if frustrating people :(
[16:26] <ScottL> holstein, you don't perhaps know his ubuntu forums name or have an email address, i'd happily pursue him and talk directly to get his knowledge or to secure his help
[16:27] <holstein> raony = alio?
[16:28] <holstein> i think folks are mis-informed about the kernel
[16:28] <holstein> and i can understand why
[16:29] <holstein> to be honest, i think it was interepid or jaunty?
[16:29] <holstein> when US did not have an RT kernel installed by default
[16:29] <holstein> and i was still learning, and not coming on the IRC
[16:29] <holstein> i did not undertand how to install the RT kernel from the repo even
[16:30] <holstein> or what that meant
[16:30] <holstein> SO i just used 64studio for a while
[16:30] <holstein> im glad i came back to US
[16:31] <holstein> but i imagine some of the frustration wanting an out of the box awesome audio solution
[16:31] <holstein> and not knowing what is going on with the generic kernel to be more RT friendly
[16:31] <holstein> AND its not like you can get a LIVE CD of US and see how the kernel works with JACK and your hardware
[16:33] <JFo> ok, so the amount of items that need to be changed depends on what you want to get out of your kernel...
[16:33] <JFo> it can be as simple as one flag and as complex as you want it
[16:33] <JFo> apparently :)
[16:33] <ScottL> holstein, i'm talking about raonyguimaraes, i don't think that's ailo as well (but i could be wrong)
[16:35] <holstein> ScottL: hmmm, i'll see if i can figure out who that is
[16:38] <ailo> ailo = ailo
[16:40] <ailo> ScottL: I'm not doing anything on the Ubuntucontrols at the moment, but I sketched out a script that is supposed to do all of what is proposed here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign
[16:40] <ailo> I'm still waiting to hear about firewire, how that is set up.
[16:41] <holstein> AI lo
[16:41] <holstein> i was wondering why auto complete wasnt happening
[16:42] <holstein> i thought you were out ;)
[16:42] <holstein> ailo: you need something from me for that?
[16:43] <ailo> holstein: doesn't need to be you, but if you have time..
[16:43] <holstein> i should have time today
[16:43] <holstein> if i get the rig setup
[16:43] <holstein> ill ping you
[16:43] <ailo> Just a step by step on how to get firewire working on Natty.
[16:43] <holstein> and if you're here, we can knock that out
[16:44] <holstein> ailo: yeah, i want to look at all the steps with you
[16:44] <holstein> that i usually do
[16:44] <holstein> and try to do the shortest route that works
[16:46] <ailo> Should be simple enough. I'm guessing you need to be in audio group and add the udev rules file. You have the link?
[16:46] <ailo> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-multimedia/ffado.git;a=blob_plain;f=debian/60-ffado.rules
[16:46] <ailo> But, please try without the udev rules first, just in case they aren't needed. I really have no idea how that works.
[16:47] <JFo> ScottL, sounds like apw had a chat with persia at some point concerning the documentation.
[16:50] <JFo> it seems that we have so many critical items that are getting delayed (and this one has also been pushed back at least one milestone)
[16:50] <JFo> so I don't have a good answer for when you can expect the docs I am afraid. :-/
[16:55] <falktx> ailo: i want to help here
[16:55] <falktx> ailo: i know how to code and should be easy enough
[16:55] <falktx> ailo: but I use Qt, (PyQt)
[16:56] <ailo> falktx: You mean Ubuntustudiocontrols? By all means, if you like. It would be a bit sweaty for me.
[16:56] <ailo> falktx: will it require extra libs?
[16:56] <falktx> ailo: the mockup looks nice, and fairly easy to implement
[16:56] <falktx> ailo: just python-qt4
[16:57] <falktx> afaik, comes pre-installed
[16:57] <falktx> i would add a tab for config audio plugins paths
[16:57] <falktx> and remove the wireless thing
[16:58] <ScottL> JFo, ah, okay. thanks for the update :)
[16:58] <ailo> Yfalktx: es, and I dont' know about System Scan either.
[16:58] <ScottL> falktx, ailo: which mockup?
[16:58] <falktx> ScottL: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1333955/USC.pdf
[16:59] <falktx> system scan seems like a nice feature for me
[16:59] <ScottL> falktx, ailo:  that's rlameiro's before we really decided on what needed to be in -controls
[16:59] <ScottL> not saying don't use it, just don't feel like that's THE form it needs to be in or ALL that needs to be included
[16:59] <falktx> ScottL: so you know exactly what is needed ?
[17:00] <JFo> ScottL, no problem
[17:00] <ScottL> falktx, heh, that's a really good question!  not really, we've bounced ideas back and forth
[17:00] <ailo> ScottL: I'm sure nothing unnecessary will end up there..
[17:00] <falktx> It could help if I had a list of stuff that needs configure
[17:00] <falktx> let me write down now the ideas
[17:01] <falktx> 1  - system-scan
[17:01] <ailo> falktx: We're just been working on the firewire bit, me and holstein.
[17:01] <falktx> 2 - wine setup (wineasio, wine-rt, etc)
[17:01] <ScottL> falktx, we talked about the items under ubuntustudio-controls: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2010May16
[17:02] <falktx> ailo: nice
[17:02] <falktx> ScottL: 2010may16 ??
[17:03] <ScottL> falktx, yes, rlameiro started but got hung up on something trying to update -controls
[17:03]  * ScottL acknowledges ubuntu studio really, really needs some developers :(
[17:03] <falktx> ScottL: i know my plans for kxstudio
[17:04] <falktx> ScottL: i'll start to make the welcome/config tools soon, so...
[17:04] <ScottL> hi quadrispro :)
[17:04] <ScottL> ubuntustudio-controls:
[17:05] <ScottL> he had considered adding a way to enable a standard ubuntustudio-dev PPA for -rt kenerl
[17:05] <ScottL> also adding the user to audio group (might not be needed anymore)
[17:05] <ScottL> also enabling raw1394 (might not be needed anymore)
[17:05] <falktx> ScottL: well, i think it is
[17:05] <ailo> Me too
[17:05] <ailo> At least audio group
[17:05] <falktx> err
[17:06] <falktx> ScottL: we need someone who understand this more than we do
[17:06] <ScottL> also adding a quick and consolidated way to add: flash, mp3 codec, et al restricted formats commonly used
[17:06] <ailo> falktx: no, it hasn't changed
[17:06] <ailo> falktx: except for the new firewire stack
[17:07] <falktx> ailo: i read about it, it seems it can access firewire without the need of a udev rule, right?
[17:07] <ScottL> falktx, ailo: if we view -controls in the sense of someone coming from vanilla ubuntu, then i think adding user to audio group is still a necessity
[17:07] <ailo> falktx: rt will not work on the generic kernel, but on Aboganis, it's just like before
[17:07] <falktx> ScottL: how can jack work in realtime if an user is not in audio group??
[17:08] <ailo> falktx: ScottL: We still need audio group. That hasn't changed
[17:09] <ailo> I think what ScottL is referring to is how jack may use realtime in the future, because of how kernels are configured.
[17:09] <ailo> But that is not a problem yet. Not on Aboganis kernel
[17:10] <ScottL> falktx, exactly!  but if one installs vanilla ubuntu and then adds studio packages by hand, the user will not be in the audio group automatically
[17:10] <ScottL> falktx, -controls will let them do this from a unified location
[17:10] <falktx> oh, wait...
[17:11]  * falktx still thinks he is in 2010!
[17:11] <falktx> lol
[17:12] <ScottL> ailo, i believe the audio group is installs automatically, just if one installs vanilla ubuntu and then installs studio packages then the use needs to be added to it
[17:12] <ailo> ScottL: Yes.
[17:12] <ailo> ScottL: Wait, err
[17:13] <falktx> ScottL: I'll work on a mockup today
[17:13] <falktx> yep
[17:13] <falktx> btw, is it me, or many packages just fail to build on natty?
[17:13] <falktx> I got so many PPA build fails for natty, while maverick and lucid are fine...
[17:14] <ailo> ScottL: I don't know if the audio group is added automatically. But user needs to put itself manually to the group.
[17:14] <falktx> ailo: it only happens when installling US from ISO
[17:15] <falktx> in all other cases, user has to do it manually
[17:15] <ailo> falktx: A simple script can check that, right. So adding that to the -controls is not so hard.
[17:16] <falktx> yep
[17:16] <quadrispro> ehya guys
[17:16] <quadrispro> happy new year!
[17:16] <falktx> hey quadrispro
[17:16] <ScottL> ailo, from my experience before with lucid and maverick and installing vanilla ubuntu, the audio group was there already, this might have changed for natty of course
[17:16] <ScottL> hi quadrispro 
[17:17] <quadrispro> falktx, I remember we were taking a look at festige, isn't it?
[17:17] <quadrispro> ScottL, have you got my mail?
[17:17] <ailo> ScottL: I'm sure it hasn't changed then. I usually install from vanilla.
[17:18] <falktx> ScottL: the audio groups is there, but the user needs to add itself to it
[17:18] <falktx> quadrispro: yes, I got lazy...
[17:18] <falktx> quadrispro: i need to update festige again, I learned some new stuff I would like to implement there...
[17:19] <falktx> ailo: btw, here's a screen of my current work -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr100.jpg
[17:20] <falktx> ailo: it's a GUI for ladish (and jack patchbay), uses pyqt4
[17:20] <ailo> falktx: Looks nice.
[17:20] <quadrispro> falktx, and it would be good to get in touch with fst's mainstream developer
[17:20] <falktx> quadrispro: he got angry at me...
[17:20] <quadrispro> falktx, ??
[17:21] <falktx> quadrispro: I made a patch for ladi lv1 support, then he went mad
[17:21] <quadrispro> ah! ladi
[17:21] <falktx> quadrispro: he said kinda 'ladish sucks'
[17:21] <quadrispro> lol
[17:22] <falktx> quadrispro: festige uses that custom fst (with my own patches), so it's not a very good idea to talk to the original author...
[17:22] <quadrispro> I don't know, I haven't looked again, I know that it would take the place of lash
[17:22] <falktx> quadrispro: I'll soon add support for 'ghostess' too, so that I can have dssi-vst with jack-midi
[17:22]  * falktx has lots of stuff to do
[17:22] <ScottL> quadrispro, i'm not sure, when did you sent it?
[17:23] <quadrispro> falktx, eh, ok, but I've been thinking to import the original fst source into debian first
[17:24] <quadrispro> ScottL, mmmh.. gmail says 12/31/10 (11 days ago)
[17:24] <ScottL> quadrispro, did you mean in response to my email?  if so, then yes i got it, sorry for not responding
[17:24] <falktx> quadrispro: fst has a branch with jack-session support, so you might wanna use that
[17:24] <ScottL> oh yes, 12/31
[17:24] <ScottL> i kept meaning to respond :(   sorry about that
[17:25] <quadrispro> falktx, so I'll try to mail with fst's author before working on festige
[17:25] <quadrispro> ScottL, no worries! :)
[17:25] <quadrispro> falktx, I've seen, but... does it work?
[17:25] <quadrispro> really?
[17:25] <falktx> quadrispro: i haven't tried yet
[17:25] <quadrispro> I remember that upstream seem'd not very active
[17:25] <falktx> quadrispro: but my version does work with ladish pretty well
[17:26] <falktx> quadrispro: yeah, there are no recent commits
[17:26] <falktx> quadrispro: btw, I packaged ladish for ubuntu
[17:26] <quadrispro> falktx, the bad news is: Debian does not have ladish :)
[17:26] <quadrispro> (for now)
[17:26] <falktx> quadrispro: i sent it to revu, but no one commented
[17:26] <quadrispro> falktx, well, I'll take a look
[17:26]  * falktx remembers why he uses PPAs so much
[17:27] <quadrispro> falktx lol, I see :)
[17:27] <falktx> quadrispro: you're free to use that package for debian
[17:27] <quadrispro> falktx, there was a discussion in pkg-multimedia ML about "do we want ladish or not?"
[17:27] <falktx> quadrispro: just note that final v0.3 has been released
[17:28] <falktx> quadrispro: ladish is the best session handler that ever existed for linux, sadly not everyone sees that
[17:28] <falktx> ladish does much more than what jack-session does
[17:29] <quadrispro> falktx, well, please turn up on pkg-multimedia and say: "Ehy guys! Ladish rocks and my package is ready for reviewing"
[17:30] <falktx> quadrispro: hm, but I'll leave soon
[17:30] <falktx> I hate not having internet at home
[17:30] <quadrispro> falktx, tomorrow or later, no worries
[17:32] <quadrispro> persia, ehy man! how are you?
[17:55] <ScottL> quadrispro, i encouraged falktx to try to push ladish to debian instead of REVU :/
[17:55] <ScottL> debian multimedia team is so much more aggressive and pervasive to get packages in
[17:55] <ScottL> at least for audio packages (i have little to no experience with non-audio packages)
[18:04] <ScottL> quadrispro, also i haven't used ladish, but my limited experience with jack-session is disappointing
[18:04] <ScottL> i don't know if i should expect more from jack-session in the future, but i believe ladish already delivers much of what users desire
[18:08] <ScottL> falktx, did you see my email about debian multimedia team and audio menu?
[18:08] <ScottL> falktx, i doubt they will get anything fixed before natty and since we already have a hack for ubuntustudio-menu
[18:09] <ScottL> falktx, perhaps we should go whole hog and do something like avlinux or dreamstudio (or even kxstudio) and fix the menu to help users
[18:09] <holstein> im for that for 12.04 for sure
[18:10] <holstein> if the changes dont trickle down
[18:10] <holstein> by then
[18:20] <ScottL> TheMuso, how's the work on unity accessibility going along?
[18:31] <TheMuso> ScottL: Its coming along a little quicker now that we have some more people helping out. Its too much for one person. :)
[18:33] <ScottL> TheMuso, oh, i bet it was/is, but i'm glad you have help
[18:33] <ScottL> TheMuso, i'm frightfully ignorant about accessibility, are you able to use anything from gnome?
[18:35] <ScottL>  
[18:36] <ScottL> it also seems that the "sigterm" restart during installation was an alternate installation problem which has since been resolved :)
[18:36] <ScottL> now i can finish up the gnome-session as default xsession issue
[18:36] <ScottL> BUT now it also seems that the tasksel options are borked :(
[18:37] <ScottL> i'll start on that after the xsession issue
[18:38] <ailo> ScottL: Just my opinion, but seems like there's no need for so many tasksels.
[18:39] <ScottL> ailo, there shouldn't be so many ;)   just five
[18:39] <ScottL> 1. graphics
[18:39] <ScottL> 2. video
[18:39] <ScottL> 3. audio recording
[18:39] <ScottL> 4. tone generation
[18:39] <ScottL> 5. plugins
[18:39] <ScottL> although i can't imagine a use case were someone selected either audio recording or tone generation and _wouldn't_ want the plugins
[18:40] <ailo> ScottL: That's what I thought too.
[18:40] <ailo> Usually one selects the whole thing for testing, or to save time
[18:40] <ScottL> just for reference: audio recording would be recording actual instruments and/or bands
[18:40] <ScottL> tone generation would include synths and sequencers
[18:40] <ScottL> ailo,  :)
[18:41] <ailo> tone generation seems like an odd term, too.
[18:42] <ailo> I would go with instruments, normally, but sequencers are included in that
[18:42] <TheMuso> ScottL: Yes, I use GNOME full time.
[18:44] <ScottL> ailo, the nomenclature can be updated if we had a better suggestion ;)
[18:44] <ScottL> but persia helped me with it and that was the best we could come up with at the time
[18:48] <ailo> ScottL: Either a big all-in-one, or a ubuntustudio showcase tasksel, I think.
[18:49] <ailo> But, not so important, maybe
[18:49] <ailo> Most people do whatever they want, anyway
[18:49] <ailo> When installing
[18:49] <ailo> By all-in-one, one for audio, one for video, one for graphics
[18:52] <ScottL> ailo, i may be wrong, but i think a large majority of users tends to focus on either recording audio (from instruments) or sequencers/synths
[18:53] <ScottL> that's not to say that overlap doesn't exist, i'm sure it does
[18:53] <paultag> ScottL: you say you need developers, eh?
[18:53] <ScottL> but this will let the users who just do one or other to control which applications are installed better and unclutter the menu
[18:53] <ScottL> paultag, aye!
[18:54] <ailo> ScottL: I have the feeling a lot has to do with the menu, in a way
[18:54] <paultag> ScottL: well, I'm done with a CS major at my Uni, and love to code. Just point me where
[18:54] <astraljava> ScottL: Yeah, things should clear up in a few days.
[18:56] <ScottL> paultag, two things that effect ubuntu studio fairly drastically, although it's only a little coding but more troubleshooting i believe
[18:57] <ScottL> paultag, the first is we need to make sure that the gnome-session is chosen as the default xsession instead of unity
[18:57] <ScottL> paultag, i think this;  http://paste.ubuntu.com/548058/
[18:57] <ScottL> should take care of it
[18:58] <ScottL> paultag, which should be for:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-default-settings/UbuntuStudio/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
[18:58] <ScottL> paultag, i got the additional code from didirock and haven't built it yet or tested it yet
[18:59] <ScottL> i've been having trouble getting a natty install lately
[18:59] <ScottL> paultag, so getting that resolved would be awesome
[18:59] <ScottL> paultag, the second thing is that it appears the tasksel is borked during ubuntu studio install
[18:59] <ScottL> paultag, this might need to be addressed with cjwatson after making sure the meta packages are correct
[19:00] <paultag> ScottL: mmhum
[19:00] <ScottL> paultag, if these are really what you are looking for i'm sure we could find something else :)
[19:00] <paultag> ScottL: I'm here to help, man. any work for U-S us work I'll do
[19:02] <paultag> ScottL: RE default xsession, that's easy enough, should just be a default file change. I think I had to do something similar at some point
[19:03] <paultag> that postinst looks good
[19:04] <ScottL> paultag, right now i'm installing a ubuntu studio natty install and hope to build it locally and test it, i hope to have it by this evening
[19:04] <paultag> ScottL: rock on
[19:04] <paultag> let me know how it goes
[19:04] <ScottL> but unfortunately i'm home on vacation with a wife and two kids as well, it's not conducive to getting stuff done, ya know?
[19:05] <paultag> ScottL: did JF-o get back to you about the kernel stuff?
[19:05] <paultag> ScottL: for sure, man. for sure.
[19:07] <ScottL> JFo, he said that other critical items were holding the process up and some of the deadlines had been pushed back
[19:08] <paultag> OK
[19:08] <ScottL> lol, sorry JFo , that was for paultag 
[19:08] <paultag> better then we're not doing anything :)
[19:26] <ailo> ScottL: Seems like firewire works on Natty, by just adding user to audio group.
[19:27] <ailo> holstein was just testing it
[19:28] <ScottL> ailo, SOOPER SWEET!
[19:28] <ailo> We'll need to confirm, but as it seems now, falktx will have one less task to add to the -control app
[19:28] <ScottL> wow, that's really a relief if true :)
[19:29] <JFo> ScottL, :-) no problem
[19:32] <holstein> ScottL: any reason why i shouldnt install the meta-packages in natty?
[19:32] <holstein> the -audio and -audio-plugins ?
[19:34] <holstein> i'll go ahead and do it
[19:35] <holstein> whats the worst that can happen ;)
[19:35] <holstein> im going to try doing some actual work in there later if i can
[19:35] <holstein> see how the -lowlatency kernel is in action
[19:35] <ailo> holstein: I've installed them all. No problems here
[20:21] <ScottL> paultag, holstein ailo:  here is a place for proposed improvements:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#Proposed%20Improvements
[20:22] <ScottL> i added all that i could think of, please add more if you think of something :)
[20:22] <ScottL> i'll send falktx the link with thelonius in another channel ;)
[20:22] <paultag> looks great ScottL 
[20:23] <paultag> ScottL: hits on the big stuff for sure
[20:24] <ScottL> paultag, ail and falktx have had conversations about ubuntustudio-controls, which probably is the best oppurtunity for coding
[20:24] <paultag> aye
[20:27] <ScottL> eh, i forgot to the the menu update on their as well
[20:31] <ailo> Considering how firewire seems to work well, and that -lowlatency is low maintenance, yet so good. Only real thing that bothers me is whether the gnome Desktop will be fully functional
[20:31] <ScottL> ailo, i believe it should be from what i've read/heard
[20:31] <ScottL> apparently ubuntu is committed to offering it as an alternate to unity
[20:31] <ailo> Sounds good. 
[20:32] <ScottL> so hopefully the update to ubuntustudio-setting i'm trying to get done should cause the gnome-classic to be the default xsession then
[20:33] <ScottL> of course, my install of ubuntu studio natty has bombed out again  ::angry::
[20:33] <ailo> I've had some bootup problems, but the second try usually works
[20:34] <holstein> just as a note
[20:34] <holstein> im in unity
[20:34] <holstein> for my tests
[20:35] <ailo> ScottL: No one is looking into the Ubuntu Theme GTK stuff, then?
[20:36] <ailo> As I said before, I could do that, but it may take a while to get into it. Been doing other things for now.
[20:37] <ailo> holstein: unity doesnt seem all that complete, right. The main menu doesn't work for me.
[20:38] <holstein> something important up there is still on the way
[20:38] <holstein> i just go in unity and say 'hey, that looks cool'
[20:39] <holstein> and start everything from the terminal ;)
[20:57] <ScottL> updated to add -menu improvements and examples:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#Proposed%20Improvements
[20:57] <ScottL> ailo, correct, no one is looking at that as well
[20:58] <ScottL> i'll add that to the improvements webpage as well
[20:58] <ScottL> ailo and holstein, if you start ubuntu (or ubuntu studio) as soon as you pick your name you can change the session to gnome-classic from a pick menu
[20:59] <holstein> i tried both
[20:59] <holstein> i wanted to see how things looked in unity
[20:59] <holstein> looks fine
[21:00] <holstein> the compiz requirement is not great though
[21:00] <holstein> for us
[21:04] <ScottL> holstein, i find the whole framework sort of kid-ish and everything seems too large
[21:04] <ScottL> reminds me of some touch face interface for the unwashed masses
[21:04] <ScottL> or how yahoo use to be the 'internet' for the masses
[21:04] <ScottL> and kinda how facebook is 'the internet' for the new unwashed masses
[21:04] <holstein> i really warmed up to it when i started running it
[21:04] <ScottL> ymmv
[21:04] <holstein> i thought i would hate it for those reasons
[21:05] <holstein> its not done yet though...
[21:05] <holstein> couldnt get lamer or cooler
[21:25] <ScottL> updated the improvements page again to include:  gtk theme, testing, backports, documentation
[21:26] <ScottL> although it's pretty loose in some of those cases at the moment :P
[23:42] <ailo> holstein: You there?
[23:43] <ailo> Just got an answer from ffado, about udev, which made a lot of sence
[23:44] <ailo> The ffado rules are probably apart from a standard udev installation, and are located in /lib/udev/rules.d/*
[23:44] <ailo> a part, I mean..
[23:45] <ailo> a part of, even..
[23:46] <ailo> So, we don't need to add the rules, because they are already there.
[23:55] <ScottL> ailo, that's good news :)