[00:18] <eviljames> Anyone alive, preferrably someone who knows lvm / raid / ubuntu and what things I should be hunting down if my initramfs is not mounting my root... ?
[10:37] <theotix> hello worlds
[13:17] <damo22> anyone here?
[13:18] <ailo> damo22: What's up?
[13:19] <damo22> wondering if anyone has a digidesign mbox2
[13:20] <ailo> No, and I was never sure if it's supported or not.
[13:21] <damo22> well, soon it will be .. i just submitted a working patch to alsa
[13:21] <ailo> Ok, so you want to find someone to test it?
[13:22] <damo22> i am playing some tunes through it as we speak
[13:22] <damo22> just wondering if its a popular device
[13:23] <ailo> It used to be among mac users, I thought.
[13:23] <ailo> But it's been long since I've seen one in action.
[13:24] <damo22> i think its quite good for what it is... i havent opened it up to check what brand the preamps are, but it sounds nice in playback @ 24 bit
[13:25] <damo22> i know that the mbox 1 had focusrite pres
[13:27] <ailo> Not many usb devices with full support, right? How is the generic driver? Isn't it 16 bits only?
[13:28] <damo22> i wrote support into the existing usb driver to force the mbox2 into 24 bit mode and actually use it
[13:29] <damo22> you can select 44.1k or 48kHz mode at 24bit
[13:30] <damo22> and it captures at 24 bit too :) duplex works
[13:30] <ailo> No 96kHz? 16 bit only?
[13:30] <damo22> the device doesnt support 96k
[13:30] <ailo> ok
[13:30] <damo22> i believe its usb 1.1
[13:31] <damo22> in my opinion bit depth is more important than 96k sample rate
[13:31] <ailo> It is
[13:32] <ailo> I've never used 96kHz for recording myself
[13:32] <damo22> i record at 44.1, makes mastering for cds easier, less hassle
[13:33] <damo22> but i record in 24 bits
[13:33] <ailo> Well, I'm sure 48kHz is best, but I imagine for some processing, even 96kHz can be better.
[13:33] <damo22> 88.2 is probably better than 96k for audio cd purposes
[13:34] <damo22> because resampling is trivial, just skip every second sample
[13:34] <damo22> ;)
[13:34] <ailo> It makes most difference in the high frequencies of course
[13:35] <ailo> But, most of the time, it doesn't make much of a difference, I think.
[13:35] <damo22> yeah, you cant reproduce anything higher than 22.05 on an audio cd
[13:36] <damo22> but then, my hearing only goes up to 16k or so
[13:36] <ailo> Well, a 10kHz wave is only represented by 4 samples, which is not very much
[13:37] <ailo> And above that, there usually isn't much, but that would depend on what is being recorded.
[13:37] <damo22> true
[14:04] <mbeierl> Anyone with linux sound/studio experience ever look into a software interface to replicate an aviom? http://www.aviom.com/Aviom-Products-1/Mixers-1/A-16II-Personal-Mixer
[14:14] <damo22> what does that network jack do
[14:20] <damo22> some sort of audio transmission over cat5e cable i assume
[14:54] <mbeierl> sorry - just notice post.  The device itself takes the output of 16 channels of digital audio data muxed over the ethernet link - coming from a master mixing board.  The Aviom 16 does all the mixing and panning on board and presents the musician with a stereo output.  I'm wondering if anyone's gone under the hood and plugged the ethernet cable into a linux box and tried to demux the audio data right onto a hard drive for later processing or something 
[15:05] <damo22> how do you know if its actually using a tcp/ip stack
[15:05] <damo22> maybe its a proprietary protocol
[15:06] <mbeierl> that's the problem - I have no idea what stack it's using
[15:06] <crysaz> try out wireshark and see if you can dump it
[15:07] <mbeierl> ah.  good point.
[15:07] <mbeierl> I don't actually own one of these - it belongs to the church where I play on the team
[15:07] <mbeierl> so I'll have to wait til my next time on the rotation to play around with it a little
[15:08] <damo22> seems like a good idea to send audio muxed over cat5
[15:08] <mbeierl> it is becoming very popular
[15:08] <mbeierl> especially for the whole in-ear-monitor space
[15:09] <damo22> but only for those who have a studio with lots of channels
[15:09] <mbeierl> single cat-5 can easily carry the 16 channels and then a small device at the musician provides the ability to create a personal mix
[15:10] <damo22> if it was tcp/ip you could use a simple switch to share the data
[15:10] <mbeierl> the devices do daisy-chain and can be added to without apparent limit
[15:12] <damo22> that is the feature of any network
[15:12] <damo22> could be rs485 or something or 422 who knows
[15:18] <damo22> but what is so good about having a 16 channel mixer at the end of a chain
[15:19] <damo22> i would have thought the mix should be preset at the control room
[15:20] <damo22> where the monitors are
[15:22] <damo22> i can see how it would benefit to have long runs from the control room to the stage made of cat5, then some sort of breakout box with separate preamps to the mics on stage
[15:23] <damo22> to shorten the analogue signal path
[15:25] <damo22> you still need to pick up vibrations from the air, so mics arent gonna go out of fashion
[15:25] <damo22> and thus you need pres
[15:26] <damo22> this cat5 stuff is just to cut the cost of wiring long paths to the control room right? and also to shorten the analogue path
[15:43] <mbeierl> To be clear the avioms are used to control the personal monitor mix for in-ear monitors
[15:43] <holstein> mbeierl: theres just an output at each terminal right?
[15:44] <mbeierl> there is also a master mix at the control site, but as this is for live performance, the control booth folks are concentrating on the house mix
[15:44] <mbeierl> yes
[15:44] <mbeierl> at the end of the cat5 cable is a mix-down box with 16 sliders - like each musician gets his/her own copy of the mix board
[15:44] <holstein> so you dont *have* to use it with the in-ear system
[15:44] <holstein> in theory
[15:44] <mbeierl> and out of that comes a single L/R channel
[15:44] <mbeierl> correct
[15:45] <holstein> ive been in studios with that kind of rig
[15:45] <holstein> my favorite was just an analog verion
[15:45] <mbeierl> I was thinking for practice I'd like to be able to capture the raw data and do a mix down of my own
[15:45] <holstein> losts of wiring
[15:45] <holstein> but, each 'terminal' had a little makie mixer
[15:45] <mbeierl> yep - that's the idea
[15:46] <holstein> the one that was running via cat5 was kinda cheap-ish
[15:47] <mbeierl> they're not cheap $$$ anymore :)
[15:47] <mbeierl> and it's good, solid construction too
[15:47] <holstein> up at systems2 in NY
[15:47] <holstein> they had it too
[15:47] <holstein> i had a hard time with it though
[15:48] <holstein> i mean, its easier for the engineer and all that
[15:48] <holstein> but, thats kinda what im paying for
[15:48] <holstein> for someone else to turn the knobs
[15:48] <holstein> i had a hard time because the mix was a bit different from the check before one of the takes
[15:48] <holstein> when a horn player was added
[15:48] <holstein> i had the harmony parts louder than the melody
[15:49] <holstein> and i couldnt really adjust it on the fly
[15:49] <holstein> and we were doing just one take of everything
[15:50] <holstein> mbeierl: you're wanting to take the output from this at church as a multichannel mix?
[15:50] <holstein> to record what you guys are doing?
[15:51] <holstein> if there is just a spare one of the brains, you could do a mix, and record it stereo
[15:51] <mbeierl> holstein: yes.
[15:51] <holstein> then you dont have to do any editing ;)
[15:51] <mbeierl> well... level sets afterwards in a mix down
[15:51] <holstein> right
[15:52] <holstein> thats a lot of wor
[15:52] <holstein> k
[15:52] <mbeierl> I already am taking the L/R stereo out and using that, but ... I'm always looking to go one further :()
[15:52] <holstein> if you get a good mix on the thing before hand
[15:52] <holstein> then you just have a ready to go board mix
[15:52] <mbeierl> ya, that's the problem - it's live
[15:52] <holstein> mbeierl: ideally
[15:52] <holstein> you would do it at the board
[15:52] <mbeierl> and I'm playing so it's hard to change my mix on the fly
[15:52] <holstein> with the inserts or whatever
[15:53] <mbeierl> that would require getting another person at the board :)
[15:53] <holstein> nah
[15:53] <holstein> just an interface that can capture it
[15:53] <mbeierl> oh, try
[15:53] <holstein> set it and forget it in theory
[15:53] <mbeierl> true
[15:53] <holstein> as long as you make sure its set at a resonable level
[15:53] <mbeierl> yep
[15:53] <holstein> that likely wont clip
[15:54] <holstein> and it shouldnt in that situation
[15:54] <holstein> where the live sound is going to be the limit
[15:54] <mbeierl> and have it dump all channels to individual audio streams on a HD of sorts?
[15:54] <mbeierl> for a mix down after?
[15:54] <holstein> thats whats going to happen if you work out the other situations
[15:54] <holstein> situation*
[15:55] <holstein> you have to capture each channel somewhere
[15:55] <holstein> im assuming via JACK to ardour
[15:55] <holstein> the end result either way is a recorded track per channel
[15:56] <holstein> for something like that, i would probably just put up a stereo mic somewhere
[15:56] <holstein> nice live sound
[15:56] <holstein> and less HD space and hassle
[15:57] <mbeierl> There again - it being a chuch service, you don't always get the best sound "through the air"
[15:58] <mbeierl> I am reasonable happy capturing my personal mixdown from the Aviom, but I was just curious if there was any known specs for that thing out there
[15:59] <holstein> i think the stereo mic mix would be preferable to a board mix
[15:59] <holstein> that you cant control afterward
[15:59] <holstein> a stereo board mix is usually pretty strange
[15:59] <holstein> really soft drums
[15:59] <holstein> the opposite of the 'room'
[16:00] <holstein> whatever needs to be amplified the most is too loud
[16:00] <holstein> you get to even that out though on your headphone mix terminal a bit
[16:01] <holstein> i would go for a multi-channel interface at the board
[16:01] <holstein> BUT, talk about adding an extra person
[16:01] <holstein> you'll have GB's of mixes stacking up
[16:01] <holstein> to mix down, backup, whatever
[16:01] <holstein> definitely the ideal scenario for fidelity
[16:02] <holstein> but, maybe not worth the extra work
[16:09] <mbeierl> The drums are mic'ed quite well and I get a nice crisp sound for them through the aviom...
[16:09] <holstein> right
[16:10] <holstein> in your headphones or whatever though
[16:10] <holstein> you'll have to compromise what you need to hear for the live recording
[16:10] <mbeierl> exactly
[16:10] <holstein> if it were me
[16:10] <mbeierl> I tap into the headphone mix and record that
[16:11] <holstein> i would not use them at all
[16:11] <holstein> but i dont use monitors really
[16:11] <holstein> i think if its a live performance, and i need a monitor, someone is playing too loud
[16:11] <mbeierl> I'm the bassist.  can't get away without them.  the sanctuary that I play in seats 1,200 people
[16:11] <holstein> me too
[16:12] <holstein> you should be able to
[16:13] <holstein> try and imagine what the monitor mixes must have been like in beethovens era ;)
[16:13] <mbeierl> he didn't use drums
[16:13] <mbeierl> :)
[16:13] <holstein> well, just becuase playing drums and music at the same time has become a problem
[16:14] <mbeierl> so if the electric and the bass do not have amps, how am I to hear them without a monitor?
[16:14] <holstein> doesnt mean we should all fight that with louder stage mixes
[16:14] <holstein> that in turn make the drummer play louder
[16:14] <mbeierl> it's not a louder stage mix - it's there's no sound on the stage
[16:14] <mbeierl> that's why I have the in-ears
[16:14] <holstein> guitar without an amp?
[16:14] <holstein> the guitar players i know
[16:14] <holstein> *electric guitar
[16:15] <mbeierl> correct - guitar without amp.  electric guitar
[16:15] <holstein> depend on the amp for most of the tone they want
[16:15] <mbeierl> yes!
[16:15] <holstein> this sounds like a mess
[16:15] <mbeierl> not anymore.  Thank-you Line 6
[16:15] <holstein> and church gigs usually are
[16:15] <mbeierl> not at all
[16:15] <mbeierl> it's very clean and crisp
[16:15] <holstein> i bet
[16:15] <holstein> totally clean
[16:15] <mbeierl> why would you want an amp?
[16:15] <holstein> no color at all
[16:15] <mbeierl> that just makes unecessary stage noise :)
[16:15] <holstein> mbeierl: ask *any* guitar player
[16:16] <holstein> mbeierl: i totally see the argument
[16:16] <mbeierl> we have several.
[16:16] <holstein> im just saying, the guy i play with
[16:16] <holstein> would never be able to do that
[16:16] <mbeierl> all of them go without amps now
[16:16] <holstein> we would mic the cabinet
[16:16] <holstein> and thats the preferred method
[16:16] <holstein> i mean, you can get electric drums too
[16:16] <holstein> and the drums wont make any sound on stage
[16:17] <holstein> and why would you not do that?
[16:17] <holstein> because the drummer prefers the tone of actual drums
[16:18] <holstein> im not saying get guitar amps
[16:18] <holstein> im just pointing out the differences in this set up with the norm
[16:18] <holstein> AND
[16:19] <holstein> guitar players are right behind drummers usually
[16:19] <holstein> with the volume before musicality
[16:20] <holstein> mbeierl: is there an extra terminal?
[16:20] <holstein> you could have one just for the recording
[16:20] <mbeierl> we've got 4 or 5 terminals
[16:20] <mbeierl> yes.  but someone would still need to ride the mix to make sure it was good
[16:20] <mbeierl> sorry  for the delays - I'm actually at work here... :)
[16:21] <holstein> mbeierl: no worries
[16:22] <mbeierl> what happens sometimes is that say, one vocalist will get louder part way through a song due to bringing the mic too close...
[16:22] <mbeierl> that gets compensated for in the house mix, but not in the personal mixes
[16:23] <holstein> hmmm
[16:24] <holstein> that will be in the interface at the board too...
[16:24] <holstein> ideally, you'd split each line then
[16:24] <holstein> pre-mixer
[16:24] <holstein> each line and mic
[16:24] <holstein> and like you said
[16:24] <holstein> have a seperate guy
[16:24] <holstein> to set that mix going to tape
[16:25] <holstein> then the live sound mixer wont effect those levels
[16:25] <holstein> one of the best sounding local venues here
[16:25] <holstein> they had great sounds in the room
[16:25] <holstein> and rather than taking a board mix
[16:26] <holstein> or hassling with multitrac
[16:26] <holstein> k
[16:26] <mbeierl> take the live room...
[16:26] <holstein> they had 2 sm81's in the room
[16:26] <holstein> and 2 dedicated channels for them
[16:26] <holstein> set and ready to go
[16:26] <holstein> if you have *any* stereo mic
[16:27] <holstein> i think that woud be worth trying at least
[16:27] <holstein> since its SO much easier all around