[00:00] <hajour> here
[00:00] <phillw> here
[00:00] <cprofitt> good showing this time... thanks for making it everyone
[00:00] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#preview
[00:00] <cprofitt> topics are there
[00:00] <egossett> here
[00:01] <aveilleux> here
[00:01] <cprofitt> I want to take some time to discuss Focus Groups
[00:01] <cprofitt> [topic] focus groups
[00:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  focus groups
[00:01] <cprofitt> as there have been some mis-perceptions about them
[00:01] <nhandler> b/39
[00:01] <cprofitt> Focus Groups are for practical purposes umbrellas
[00:02] <cprofitt> they have a lead person who coordinates that group
[00:02] <cprofitt> they will contain sub-groups or interest areas...
[00:02] <cprofitt> or experts in a certain area that is under that group
[00:02] <cprofitt> to give two examples...
[00:02] <cprofitt> lubuntu is a sub-area under support...
[00:03] <cprofitt> accessibility is a sub-area under support and development
[00:04] <phillw> cprofitt: that sounds fantastic to me.
[00:04] <cprofitt> we used to form Focus Groups for each interest area, but due to passing interests and people moving on to dedicate themselves to other things we have a very fluid state with focus groups
[00:04] <cprofitt> we do not want to have that amount of 'churn' for new people trying to find their way
[00:05] <cprofitt> in rare cases we may form a sep. FG -- if there is enough interest... and large enough group of people... and an existing team that requests that FG to be created
[00:05] <cprofitt> note it will take all three of those to happen
[00:05] <cprofitt> any questions?
[00:05] <nhandler> Nope
[00:06] <phillw> cprofitt: thanks for clearing it all up.
[00:06] <UndiFineD> I have taken the liberty to register #ubuntu-beginners-accessibility
[00:06] <nhandler> Hmm...That is a good question. Do we actually want IRC channels for the sub-areas?
[00:07] <nhandler> UndiFineD: Can you make UBTCouncil a founder in there?
[00:07] <UndiFineD> I noticed people saying such has their interest, now people could go to #ubuntu-accessibility or we could discuss to have them pass this channel first
[00:08] <UndiFineD> nhandler: I would be happy to do so
[00:08] <nhandler> Yes, but if it is part of the support fg, it might make sense to use that IRC channel (or the accessibility team channel)
[00:10]  * Timo_ is here as well
[00:10] <UndiFineD> maybe, it was just a thought, and we could discuss it outside the meeting
[00:12] <cprofitt> nhandler: we can take that off-line
[00:12] <cprofitt> sorry, but I was typing in the wrong channel
[00:12] <cprofitt> irris fail
[00:12] <UndiFineD> heh
[00:12] <cprofitt> in conjunction with that we have to re-define mentors
[00:13] <cprofitt> to help them learn about the team, the process and the skills needed to contribute to that team
[00:13] <cprofitt> becoming a mentor will require some work
[00:13] <UndiFineD> how about some classes ?
[00:13]  * phillw back...
[00:14] <cprofitt> so mentors are dedicated to a specific are of knowledge... they will fall under a specific FG
[00:14] <cprofitt> we then need people who will assist people with becoming UBT members...
[00:14] <cprofitt> in the past those folks were called mentors... but to avoid confusion we need a new name
[00:14]  * phillw waves hand....
[00:14] <cprofitt> one group (mentors) are subject experts
[00:15] <cprofitt> the other group are more guides
[00:15] <ibuclaw> cprofitt, in the past they were called 'masters', no? :)
[00:15] <cprofitt> we also called them masters in the distant past in a galazy far far away
[00:15] <UndiFineD> :D
[00:16] <cprofitt> masters and padawan
[00:16] <cprofitt> we could revert to that term...
[00:16] <cprofitt> we just need to have two different terms... to avoid confusion
[00:16] <cprofitt> becoming a mentor will involve much more proof that you are a subject expert
[00:17] <cprofitt> [VOTE]use the term master to describe UBT guides
[00:17] <MootBot> Please vote on: use the term master to describe UBT guides.
[00:17] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:17] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:17] <phillw> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from phillw. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:17] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:17] <UndiFineD> +1
[00:17] <egossett> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from egossett. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:17] <IAmNotThatGuy> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from IAmNotThatGuy. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:17] <cprofitt> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:17] <Timo_> +1
[00:17] <MootBot> +1 received from Timo_. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:17] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:18] <hajour> +1
[00:18] <MootBot> +1 received from hajour. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> cprofitt, only UBT members can vote right?
[00:18] <cprofitt> IAmNotThatGuy: yes
[00:18] <egossett> sorry
[00:18] <hajour> sorry
[00:18] <cprofitt> soon IAmNotThatGuy soon
[00:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> no worries egossett
[00:18] <cprofitt> be patient padawan
[00:18] <cprofitt> :-
[00:18] <cprofitt> )
[00:18] <egossett> kk
[00:18] <IAmNotThatGuy> (:
[00:18] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:19] <cprofitt> [endvote]
[00:19] <MootBot> Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8
[00:19] <phillw> cprofitt: do you want to carry out the vote after the election of the new padawans, as it does directly affect them?
[00:19] <cprofitt> [agreed]guides will now be called Masters
[00:19] <MootBot> AGREED received: guides will now be called Masters
[00:19] <cprofitt> anyone want to volunteer to update our wiki?
[00:19] <phillw> cprofitt: I'll do it.
[00:19] <cprofitt> some padawan who wants to work with the doc team?
[00:19] <aveilleux> I have to be right back, I need to reboot to fix some permissions
[00:20] <cprofitt> [action] phillw will update wiki with master information
[00:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  phillw will update wiki with master information
[00:20] <UndiFineD> that would be me
[00:20] <cprofitt> thanks phillw
[00:20] <cprofitt> phillw: can you let UndiFineD do it?
[00:20] <cprofitt> [action] UndiFineD will update the wiki with information about Masters
[00:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  UndiFineD will update the wiki with information about Masters
[00:20] <cprofitt> there we go
[00:20] <UndiFineD> :)
[00:21] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] New Members Announcement
[00:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  New Members Announcement
[00:21] <phillw> cprofitt:  UndiFineD if you want to do it, be my guest.
[00:21] <cprofitt> as was agreed to last meeting the council is now responsible for voting on new UBT members
[00:21] <cprofitt> there are several that have been put before the council
[00:21] <cprofitt> but I want everyone to understand the process
[00:22] <cprofitt> a padawan or their master can put them forward to the council
[00:22] <cprofitt> the padawan should have testimonials on their wiki
[00:22] <cprofitt> the padawan is encouraged to either be present at the council meeting or send the council an email with their statement of why they feel they are ready
[00:23] <cprofitt> the council, and I apologize for this, has not determined a meeting date/time
[00:23] <cprofitt> but we are looking at doing a regular meeting...
[00:23] <cprofitt> and we will meet soon about the people we have in the que now
[00:23] <cprofitt> I apologize to them for the delay
[00:24] <cprofitt> also... I want to make everyone aware of the current que of folks seeking masters....
[00:24] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership
[00:24] <cprofitt> we have 15 people looking for help on joining the BT.
[00:24] <cprofitt> we need to get these folks paired up...
[00:24] <ibuclaw> cprofitt, that is quite a queue
[00:25] <cprofitt> we also need to get the Masters list updated so masters are under their TZ
[00:25] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:25] <UndiFineD> which is why I suggested doing classes on becoming a master
[00:25] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: good suggestion... we can look at doing that...
[00:25] <phillw> cprofitt: with no disrespect to the council, and I know full well you are up to your collective eyeballs in work. We do really need to shift our padawans off and elect mentors. There is a 'log-jam'.
[00:25] <cprofitt> can you send an email to the list with that suggestion and some details on how we would run that?
[00:26] <cprofitt> masters you mean phillw ?
[00:26] <cprofitt> or mentors?
[00:26] <aveilleux> I'm sorry, I'm back
[00:26] <ibuclaw> UndiFineD, The first rule of becoming a master is the First rule of becoming a master. :~)
[00:27] <UndiFineD> hmmm ibuclaw must be a jedi
[00:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> inetpro, (:
[00:27] <IAmNotThatGuy> erm tab fails )':
[00:27] <ibuclaw> The rest is simply being there to answer any questions they may have about team internal processes.
[00:27] <cprofitt> ok... phillw did you mean log jam for masters or mentors?
[00:27]  * pedro3005 is here :P
[00:27] <cprofitt> hey pedro3005
[00:28]  * CensoredBiscuit arrived late and feels lost
[00:28] <phillw> cprofitt: bioterror is a mentor yet to be elected, as for masters the faster we get them approved, the sooner we can adopt the ones waiting. It is heartbreaking to hear them plea for a mentor :'(
[00:28] <cprofitt> CensoredBiscuit: we will post the minnutes after the meeting
[00:28] <pedro3005> cprofitt, I put my mentees for membership I think
[00:28] <pedro3005> well at least I added it on the meeting table
[00:28] <cprofitt> phillw: well the folks on that list are looking for masters... not mentors
[00:28] <cprofitt> I am aware of bioterror and the issue has been raised with the council
[00:28] <IAmNotThatGuy> I ll br gone in 10 mins. powercut :'(
[00:29] <ibuclaw> cprofitt, so that entire page needs moving and a new table put in it's place?
[00:29] <cprofitt> ibuclaw: the table needs to be renamed at the top
[00:29] <cprofitt> UndiFineD: is working on it
[00:29] <UndiFineD> after the meeting
[00:30] <cprofitt> we then will need a new table for mentors -- which we have zero of right now
[00:30] <ibuclaw> I mean
[00:30] <ibuclaw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors
[00:30] <cprofitt> and a list of people looking to be made mentors
[00:30] <ibuclaw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Masters
[00:30] <UndiFineD> yes
[00:30] <cprofitt> ibuclaw: the mentors page can have two tables on it...
[00:30] <ibuclaw> kk
[00:30] <cprofitt> mentors and masters... with some explanation as to the difference
[00:31] <pedro3005> when are you guys going to look at the people up for membership?
[00:31] <cprofitt> pedro3005: We are working on that as I speak
[00:31] <cprofitt> literally
[00:32] <pedro3005> ok, great
[00:32] <cprofitt> the council will be meeting immediately following this meeting to consider those in the que
[00:32] <cprofitt> ok... there are no other topics
[00:33] <cprofitt> any other last minute business?
[00:33] <nhandler> o/
[00:33] <cprofitt> yes nhandler
[00:33] <phillw> cprofitt: I know that pedro3005 also has a list of people wanting to be a padawan, as does at least one other mentor. We need the queue clearing so we can help.
[00:33] <nhandler> I just want to remind everyone that we will have a BT Council election probably around the start of March. So think about if you might be interested in running
[00:34] <cprofitt> nhandler: what positions are up?
[00:34] <nhandler> cprofitt: You, me, and bodhi. I updated https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners-council/+members
[00:35] <cprofitt> I thought we served two year terms...
[00:35] <nhandler> cprofitt: Yeah. You joined in 2009
[00:35] <cprofitt> but not sure when the last election was...
[00:35] <nhandler> cprofitt: Half the council joined a year after us in 2010
[00:35] <nhandler> I also believe we decided not to fill bodhi's seat (so the council will be 5 people) when he expires
[00:35] <cprofitt> I did... but I thought I was just recently re-elected... but maybe not... I will have to look back
[00:36] <pedro3005> it's been 2 years since 2009?
[00:36] <pedro3005> damn!
[00:36] <cprofitt> ok... no other business?
[00:36] <phillw> nhandler: if you need an admin person, then I will do it (i.e. put up for election).
[00:36] <nhandler> cprofitt: You might have. I can't remember if we were up for re-election in the last batch or not
[00:36] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[00:36] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:36.
[00:36] <cprofitt> alright... the council will be meeting about the new UBT members
[00:36] <cprofitt> I hope to update those folks tonight
[00:37] <cprofitt> thanks everyone.
[00:37] <phillw> cprofitt: thanks, for chairing the meeting.
[00:37] <UndiFineD> yep was fun
[00:37] <egossett> thank you all
[00:38] <hajour> :)
[00:45] <Timo_> why is this bot running times like this
[00:45] <Timo_> 18:36 whilst it is 01:36 in GMT+1
[00:46] <Timo_> Why doesn't it use GMT or CET?
[00:47] <ibuclaw> Timo_, in an ideal world, I guess it should follow UTC
[18:03] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[18:03] <Riddell> the agenda hasn't been tidied since the last meeting
[18:04] <Riddell> but let's start with memberships
[18:04] <Quintasan> o\
[18:04] <stalcup> oh my
[18:04] <Riddell> stalcup: you want to be a kubuntu member again?
[18:04] <stalcup> Riddell: yes, I have cjilled for over a year now and as of 4.5.5 I'm ready to be back
[18:05] <stalcup> chilled*
[18:05] <Riddell> you still love us?
[18:05] <stalcup> with all my heart <3
[18:05]  * Quintasan hugs stalcup
[18:05] <highvoltage> it's really hard not to love the kubuntu team
[18:05] <Riddell> stalcup: tell us a bit about yourself and what you want to do in Kubuntu?
[18:05] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SteveStalcup
[18:05] <stalcup> thanks Riddell
[18:06] <rgreening> 'ello Riddel
[18:06] <rgreening> et al
[18:06] <rgreening> :)
[18:06] <stalcup> I've been an ubuntu/kubuntu user for over 5 years now
[18:06] <stalcup> I started contributing to Kubuntu during 8.04 cycl
[18:06]  * rgreening friendly punches stalcup in the arm :)
[18:07] <stalcup> hehe ,'lo rgreening
[18:07] <stalcup> I have also helped with several release updaates
[18:07] <JontheEchidna> stalcup was also a member of the original Kubuntu Ninjas dreamteam.
[18:07] <stalcup> I would like to do that again
[18:07] <Riddell> he's the admin of ~kubuntu-ninjas no less
[18:07] <stalcup> yep, thoses weree the days
[18:08] <stalcup> Riddell: odd eh?
[18:08] <stalcup> but basicly, I miss you guys (and I need less sleep)
[18:09] <stalcup> oh, and I'm a MOTU
[18:09]  * rgreening misses stalcup also  .. haha
[18:09] <Riddell> stalcup: how do you rate your own packaging skills?  how do you think you managed with 4.5.5 for example?
[18:10] <Quintasan> maemologger: I thought we were supposed to slap +1 sticker on every item on agenda for you :P
[18:10] <stalcup> well, I was slower and more dileberate - but thats good
[18:10] <stalcup> its really like riding a bike
[18:11] <stalcup> I really enjoyed packaging 4.5.5
[18:11] <Riddell> stalcup: actually I thought you were surprisingly fast, did you do them one at a time or in parallel, what checks did you do at the end of compiling to make sure it was ok?
[18:11] <Quintasan> :O
[18:11] <stalcup> well, that was the slow part
[18:12] <stalcup> I didnt know about the meta package - that did not help me
[18:12] <Riddell> it can be a blocker right enough
[18:12] <rgreening> stalcup: since the last time you were here and active, what do you see as needing to change (if anything) to make us better at what we do?
[18:12] <rgreening> :P
[18:12] <maemologger> More phononess
[18:12] <maemologger> Obviously :P
[18:13] <rgreening> maemologger != stalcup :)
[18:13] <maemologger> :P
[18:13] <stalcup> I would like to see moer coordiation via the mailing list, and more karma for JontheEchidna
[18:13] <Quintasan> :D
[18:13] <JontheEchidna> :D
[18:13] <stalcup> sorry, my hands are shaking :s
[18:14] <rgreening> lol
[18:14] <Riddell> mailing lists are a weak point for me
[18:14] <rgreening> np stalcup :)
[18:14] <Riddell> stalcup: you got the version numbers wrong on some packages in 4.5.5, how can that be prevented in future?
[18:14] <stalcup> since my job is afk, email is about the only commnication I have
[18:15] <stalcup> yes, I already have a plan for this
[18:15] <stalcup> I printed out the dep chaart, and make a checklist for every package
[18:16] <stalcup> the checklist includes complete/deb check
[18:16] <stalcup> I plan on makeing a wiki page of reminders, or recipies
[18:17] <Riddell> stalcup: do you think you understand what's expected of members with respect to the code of conduct?
[18:17] <stalcup> 100% understand
[18:17] <Riddell> any other questions anyone?
[18:18] <stalcup> I've really learned alot about who I am, and how others see me, and how what I say or do impacts may people
[18:18] <stalcup> It has been a very humbling year
[18:18] <neversfelde> ok
[18:19] <rgreening> +1 from me based on above
[18:19] <JontheEchidna> +1
[18:19] <maemologger> +1
[18:19] <neversfelde> +1
[18:19] <Riddell> +1 too
[18:19] <stalcup> whoo hoo! <3 to all!
[18:19] <rgreening> yay stalcup :P
[18:19] <Riddell> welcome back stalcup
[18:20] <Quintasan> \o/
[18:20] <rgreening> welcome back dooooooooooooooooood
[18:20] <stalcup> thank you all!
[18:20]  * Quintasan highfives stalcup
[18:20]  * stalcup does backflips and ^5 Quintasan 
[18:20] <Quintasan> stalcup: you got some WB karma :P
[18:20] <Riddell> yofel_n900: are you around?
[18:20]  * shadeslayer hugs stalcup and gives him some koffee
[18:21] <yofel> now
[18:21] <stalcup> thanks shadeslayer
[18:21] <Quintasan> stalcup: have some whiskey to stop the shaking :D
[18:21] <yofel> (came home a minute ago...)
[18:21] <stalcup> no joke
[18:22] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PhilipMuskovac
[18:22] <Riddell> yofel: who are you and why do you want to be a kubuntu member?
[18:22] <neversfelde> stalcup: welcome back. I was not very happy about some posts you made in the past and my +1 is based about what you said about coc
[18:23] <stalcup> thanks neversfelde
[18:23] <yofel> Hi folks, I'm Philip Muskovac, 24, and I've been a linux user for around 4 years, and a k/ubuntu user for 3 years now
[18:23] <yofel> I started contributing to ubuntu during intrepid, and I started testing and giving support for Kubuntu again since karmic
[18:23] <JackyAlcine> Question: is this an open meeting?
[18:24] <stalcup> JackyAlcine: yes
[18:24] <Riddell> yofel: how did you learn about packaging?
[18:25] <JackyAlcine> stalcup: I didn't want to interrupt. Thanks.
[18:25] <yofel> I've mostly learned it first by being part in the bugsquad and trying to fix simple bugs, later started building my own daily packages and started helping with kubuntu packages after that
[18:26] <Riddell> "Get into iso testing" that's something I've found hard to keep people enthused about
[18:26] <yofel> I've been giving user support on IRC too when I had time for it and helped setting up the KDE daily builds
[18:26] <Quintasan> >when I had time
[18:26] <Riddell> it takes a lot of time then when a bug is found people feel their time has been wasted (which is obviously not true)
[18:26] <Quintasan> This makes you look like you have a lot of time yofel :))
[18:27] <Riddell> yofel: based on bugsquad work, how is Kubuntu doing with managing the level of bugs we have reported?
[18:28] <yofel> Riddell: kubuntu is doing rather well compared to the overall ubuntu project, that we report KDE bugs directly upstream helps a lot there
[18:28] <yofel> Quintasan: really? I wish I had more time, but my schedule isn't that stable
[18:30] <yofel> so far I've really enjoyed helping with the 4.6 packaging, learned that I'll have to learn more about library packaging though, which I'm doing currently
[18:31] <Riddell> nobody else got questions?
[18:31] <maemologger> No
[18:31] <neversfelde> yofel: "Make Kubuntu easier to use for everyone. " any more details about this?
[18:32] <yofel> neversfelde: mostly trying to ensure better Q/A on the things a user sees first, since I found it esp. hard to install the proprietary drivers on my dads pc which should go pretty easily normally
[18:32] <Quintasan> I would like to say that yofel (and shadeslayer) are a big help in Project Neon, I would be able to do it myself probably but it would take MUCH more time. If he gets this many thing done in his free time the he is a very effective worker :)
[18:33] <neversfelde> yofel: what do you think about our default plasma desktop with folderview and the microblogging plasma-widget, it's what the user sees first?
[18:34] <yofel> neversfelde: I find that pretty good, you still have access to the desktop folder while using plasma, the microblogging widget is something I don't use, but that's personal (looks good though)
[18:35] <neversfelde> yofel: really? I do not like it :)
[18:35] <neversfelde> kk, no more questions
[18:35] <Riddell> +1 from me for useful and very competant contributions
[18:35] <maemologger> What are we voting on btw?
[18:35] <Riddell> membership for yofel
[18:35] <neversfelde> +1 from me for the good work so far
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> +1
[18:36] <maemologger> +1 then
[18:36] <Quintasan> not council but +1 :)
[18:36] <Riddell> welcome in yofel
[18:36] <neversfelde> welcome yofel
[18:36]  * Quintasan throws confetti at yofel
[18:36] <yofel> hurrray, now I can stop shaking.. *phew*
[18:36] <shadeslayer> hahaha :D
[18:36]  * shadeslayer hands out koffee to yofel
[18:36] <maemologger> Check ur mail
[18:36] <yofel> thanks :D
[18:37] <rgreening> +1
[18:37] <rgreening> lol
[18:37] <rgreening> was distracted
[18:37] <rgreening> by $wrk
[18:37] <rgreening> :)
[18:37] <rgreening> welcome
[18:37]  * yofel hugs maemologger
[18:38] <yofel> thanks rgreening
[18:38] <Riddell> now Quintasan wants into kubuntu-dev
[18:38]  * Quintasan hands whisKey to yofel
[18:38] <Quintasan> Gulp. :)
[18:38] <Riddell> which is something for kubuntu-dev to vote on
[18:38] <Riddell> so we'll probably have to discuss it by e-mail after the meeting
[18:38] <Riddell> but Quintasan do introduce your work so far and we'll quiz you a bit here
[18:38] <maemologger> I would prefer maiil
[18:39] <maemologger> Sorta difficult to intervu from the n900
[18:39] <Quintasan> So, short introduction, eh? My name is Michal, I'm soon going to turn 18 years old. I have been using Kubuntu since Dapper I think and I started contributing somewhere in the middle of Jaunty cycle.
[18:40] <Quintasan> I think I started with patching Qt 4 since we had problems with that one at that point it time. It was quite an fast paced adventure for me
[18:40] <Riddell> in  kde4libs 4:4.5.95-0ubuntu1~maverick1~ppa1  what is the relevance of each part of the version number?
[18:41] <rgreening> lol
[18:42]  * rgreening thinks Riddell sometimes forgets and uploads to main :)
[18:43] <Quintasan> >0ubuntu1 - 0 means no Debian upload of this package and ubuntu1 means this is the first upload in ubuntu, the ~maverick1 is obviously indicating maverick upload and if I am not mistaken decreases the version so 4.5.95-0ubuntu1 upload would replace it
[18:43] <Riddell> and 4:4.5.95 ?
[18:44] <Quintasan> 4: is the..epoch I think
[18:44] <Riddell> yep
[18:44] <Quintasan> and 4.5.95 is the release version
[18:45] <Riddell> all good
[18:45] <Riddell> how important is the Section: field in debian/control ?
[18:45] <Quintasan> It indicates to which section in the repository the package belongs to
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> ^if not present, package managers that don't protect against null const char pointers being returned from libapt-pkg will crash
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> :P
[18:46] <Quintasan> Oh :D
[18:46] <JontheEchidna> (Not the answer jr was looking for) :P
[18:46] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[18:46] <Riddell> Quintasan: but is it actually useful for anything (this is an opinion question as much as anything)
[18:48] <Quintasan> Riddell: Hmm, makes easier to find the package we are looking for, and on second but quite unorganised though I think packages in Section: kde could be in Kubuntu seed for example
[18:48] <Quintasan> The second one is based on the archive reorg so I'm not sure if this would be entirely safe to do :)
[18:49] <Riddell> when will kdelibs5 have to be changed to kdelibs6 ?
[18:49] <Quintasan> ... I saw that coming
[18:50] <Quintasan> If it becomes either soname gets bumped or it becomes binary incompatible I think
[18:51] <Quintasan> becomes kdelibs6*
[18:51] <Riddell> yep
[18:51] <Quintasan> or when KDE 5 get released :)
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> hopefully both would happen simulaneously
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> what is the purpose of the kde-sc-dev-latest package?
[18:51] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: it pulls all latestest DEVelopment packages required to build KDE modules
[18:51] <Quintasan> latest*
[18:52]  * Quintasan 's hands are shaking as well :S
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: in effect, but technically it breaks the dependency chain if a package with too low a version is present
[18:52] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: and by that it makes sure we are not building with an older version of dev files
[18:52] <JontheEchidna> ok, I'm satisfied with that :)
[18:52] <Riddell> what is the significance of debian/compat being 7 ?
[18:53] <Quintasan> Riddell: It means that debian/rules most likely uses things that are COMPATible only with debhelper 7 or newer
[18:54] <Quintasan> or new source format I think
[18:55] <Riddell> groovy, I think we'll contrinue the discussion by e-mail
[18:55] <Riddell> thanks for taking the grilling
[18:55]  * Quintasan feels roasted
[18:56] <Quintasan> I could use some seasonings
[18:56] <Riddell> someone added Project Neon launch to the agenda
[18:56] <Quintasan> \o
[18:57] <Riddell> Quintasan: what's the issue?
[18:58] <shadeslayer> well ... KDE Migrating to Git and cache issues :P
[18:58] <Quintasan> Riddell: Well, there are no issues at the moment but I wanted to know where are we going to announce it and how should we (Project Neon team) handle anything that might come up. I have already set up a ML and a bug tracker
[18:59] <Riddell> I think it should be announced as soon as it's next in a working state
[18:59] <Quintasan> and as shadeslayer mentioned we have a cache issue but if I get to it at the weekend it should get sorted out
[18:59] <Riddell> is it in a working state?
[18:59] <shadeslayer> Riddell: id like to not announce it till KDE finishes its migration to Git
[18:59] <Quintasan> Riddell: it is working but the cache issue makes it change Pager settings from the stable release
[18:59] <Quintasan> and yeah, shadeslayer just imported split kdebindings
[19:00] <shadeslayer> that way we can further modularize stuff in neon and get better QA
[19:00] <shadeslayer> yep
[19:00] <shadeslayer> ill start working on them tomorrow
[19:00] <shadeslayer> im also tracking the migration on #kde-git
[19:00] <Quintasan> Riddell: and where we can announce it? I want to get as many people to use it as possible
[19:00] <Riddell> Quintasan: kubuntu.org than I can do a story on dot.kde.org
[19:00] <shadeslayer> kde4libs is scheduled to move to git on the weekend after KDE 4.6 SC is released
[19:01] <maemologger> Blogs
[19:01] <maemologger> Forums
[19:01]  * shadeslayer runs
[19:01] <maemologger> News sites
[19:01] <maemologger> Microblogs
[19:01] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: I can already see the workload
[19:01] <maemologger> Just bring it up randomly in channels
[19:01] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: no ... i still dont have a blog entry .. :P
[19:01] <shadeslayer> maemologger: i do it on #kde-git alot :P
[19:02] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: That's your problem :P
[19:02] <shadeslayer> also ... im afraid of this currently : http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/kdebindings-deps-colors.png
[19:02] <Riddell> wibble
[19:03] <Quintasan> Riddell: well, it's everything I really wanted to know, now we can get back to work :)
[19:03] <Riddell> but really there's no point in putting in the effort you guys have been doing over the last many months if it doesn't get announced and used
[19:03] <maemologger> Oh you dont want to see what is coming phonon for 4.5 then
[19:03] <Riddell> someone added Switch from kcm-touchpad to synaptiks
[19:03] <debfx> yes, I'd like to implement the switch now
[19:03] <Riddell> go for it
[19:04] <debfx> which means removing the kcm-touchpad package and adding a transitional package to synaptiks
[19:04] <stalcup> lol, love the dialogue on that one
[19:04] <Riddell> debfx: why remove kcm-touchpad ?
[19:05] <maemologger> It is the broken i presume
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> yes
[19:05] <Riddell> well that's easy enough then
[19:05] <debfx> they conflict with each other
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> the maintainer disappeared disappointingly early on in its life
[19:05] <JontheEchidna> synaptiks has an approved MIR iirc
[19:05] <Riddell> just get the synaptiks package to make the dummy .deb
[19:06] <Riddell> any other business?
[19:06] <neversfelde> partitionamanger
[19:07] <Riddell> didn't we discuss that at the last meeting?
[19:07] <neversfelde> I forgot th emir and filed it yesterday evening
[19:07] <neversfelde> sorry for that
[19:07] <Riddell> hah :)
[19:07] <neversfelde> bug 701617
[19:07] <Riddell> I'm in a meeting right now about MIRs so maybe they'll get processed faster now
[19:07] <neversfelde> hehe
[19:07] <shadeslayer> iirc maemologger was gunning for it
[19:08] <maemologger> I only +1 from now on if i get money
[19:08]  * shadeslayer throws some space bucks at maemologger
[19:08] <Riddell> maemologger: what is coming in phonon 4.5, and when?
[19:08] <maemologger> Fair enough +1
[19:09] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: maybe could you poke at QApt? it got pre-promoted 5 months ago but hasn't gotten its security review
[19:09] <maemologger> Phonon 4.5 is going to be the bet phonon ever and is arriving before june
[19:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: bug no?
[19:10] <maemologger> That said 4.4.4 is scheduled for jan 19 ;)
[19:10] <shadeslayer> maemologger: so essentially wont make it into 11.04
[19:10] <maemologger> No
[19:10] <shadeslayer> but i guess we can provide it in updates ppa
[19:10] <Riddell> maemologger: 4.4.4 has magic codec install stuff?
[19:10] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: bug 609247
[19:10] <maemologger> Yep
[19:10] <maemologger> Also rock stable
[19:10] <maemologger> Also kio streaming ... Hopefully
[19:11] <Riddell> maemologger: does that mean we should drop some kubuntu-notifier bits?
[19:11] <maemologger> Yep
[19:11] <maemologger> All of them in dragon and amarok
[19:12] <shadeslayer> nice
[19:13] <Riddell> maemologger: what about the problems dragon has had
[19:13] <maemologger> Fixed
[19:13] <maemologger> Though there is now one with vlc
[19:13] <Riddell> sounds lovely
[19:13]  * stgraber waves
[19:13] <stgraber> Edubuntu meeting
[19:13] <highvoltage> heh
[19:13] <maemologger> But i expect that we push more bakcend updates before 45
[19:13] <shadeslayer> maemologger: dont break my precious vlc :P
[19:14] <shadeslayer> ok lets move to #kubuntu-devel then ? :
[19:14] <JontheEchidna> yes, we can continue there
[19:14] <Riddell> yep
[19:14] <shadeslayer> stgraber: the channel is all yours ;)
[19:14] <stgraber> thanks shadeslayer :)
[19:15] <stgraber> Who besides mgariepy and highvoltage is around for the Edubuntu meeting ?
[19:15] <maemologger> /me leaves cookies for stgraber to givem away for precious edubuntu work :)
[19:15] <stgraber> yeah !
[19:15] <highvoltage> yay cookies
[19:15] <stgraber> thanks maemologger
[19:16] <highvoltage> I uploaded the weblive chromium experimental plugin, fwiw: https://code.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+junk/weblive-chromium-plugin
[19:16] <highvoltage> stgraber: so if you ever feel like adding the required features to vmmanager then we can fix it up nicely :)
[19:17] <stgraber> cool. I started updating weblive's code to export a JSON interface, it's a bit trickier than expected though so I'll need to work in a VM rather than directly on the production instance
[19:17] <highvoltage> oh and then there's http://jonathancarter.org/2011/01/10/edubuntu-live-welcome/
[19:17] <highvoltage> we need some community help there
[19:17] <stgraber> (as in, I broke the live instance last time I did a code roll-out ;))
[19:17] <highvoltage> heh, ok :)
[19:18] <highvoltage> looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap - we didn't ever get any feedback on the included apps
[19:19] <highvoltage> I sent out a mail to edubuntu-devel about it, but we didn't get any response
[19:22] <highvoltage> I've very lazily been looking at the acire and python-snippets packaging last week
[19:23] <highvoltage> will most likely get to that this weekend
[19:23] <stgraber> I'm also planning to include arkose in Edubuntu as soon as the binaries enter natty (currently in the queue)
[19:23] <highvoltage> stgraber: the additional language page is targeted for alpha 2, I guess you can probably look at that after your holiday?
[19:24] <stgraber> I'll try to do some of that when I'm in Europe, will be easier to nag Evan and Colin as I'll be on the right timezone ;)
[19:24] <highvoltage> it would be nice if we could integrate arkose into other services in edubuntu instead of just including in. probably something to look at at next uds
[19:25] <highvoltage> ah I just thought that colin never sleeps
[19:26] <highvoltage> the desktop team seems reluctant to move unity from depends to recommends in the ubuntu-desktop package
[19:26] <stgraber> why ?
[19:26] <highvoltage> so I guess we should probably just install it by default and make the classic desktop the default
[19:27] <highvoltage> stgraber: I had a discussion on the ubuntu-desktop irc channel that just didn't go anywhere. the reason was basically that the default interface should be in depends.
[19:28] <highvoltage> I filed a bug and poked the list/irc channel but didn't get any response on it
[19:28]  * mhall119 is here now
[19:30] <highvoltage> and alkisg too, it seems :)
[19:30] <alkisg> Hi all :)
[19:31] <highvoltage> mhall119, alkisg any updates from you? mhall119 do you want to mention the name changes stuff for the launcher?
[19:31] <highvoltage> I don't have anything else to add
[19:31] <mhall119> so I couldn't get xdg-launcher in Universe because of concerns about the xdg- prefix
[19:31]  * alkisg doesn't have anything newsworthy
[19:32] <mhall119> so I'm forking it, the new fork will be called qimo-launcher
[19:32] <mhall119> and will do only what qimo needs it to do
[19:32] <mhall119> xdg-launcher can live on as-named or under a new name, with new features and such
[19:32] <mhall119> I'm working on the version 3 packages for Qimo
[19:33] <mhall119> including getting the new launcher as part of the session
[19:33] <mhall119> I'm currently only working on the Xfce session, but will hopefully be starting on the gnome session as soon (school, work and life permitting)
[19:34] <highvoltage> so will you use the same launcher under xfce and gnome?
[19:34] <mhall119> I've also just gotten permission to do my school Senior Project on making Qimo 3, so it should be very well documented by the end of Fall 2011
[19:34] <mhall119> highvoltage: yes
[19:34] <mhall119> since the launcher is just python, gtk and gmenu
[19:34] <highvoltage> can it load custom menus? like, would you be able to make menus for it in edubuntu-menueditor?
[19:34] <mhall119> the top panel will be Xfce or Gnome, depending
[19:35] <mhall119> highvoltage: you give it an XDG .menu file, and optional sub-menu path from that file
[19:35] <mhall119> so if you can point edubuntu-menueditor at any xdg .menu file, it should work
[19:36] <mhall119> I've been testing it against the default applications.menu /Games submenu
[19:36] <highvoltage> cool. I'll poke mgariepy to look at it once it hits the archives
[19:36] <mhall119> but for Qimo I'll define a custom qimolauncher.menu
[19:36] <highvoltage> maybe he can add a note about it to the menueditor documentation as well
[19:36] <mhall119> cool
[19:37] <mhall119> other than that, i'm just waiting on debmower so I can start building regular ISOs
[19:38] <highvoltage> it's pretty much there, if you have an hour available any time on friday let me know and we can walk trhough it
[19:38] <mgariepy> hey
[19:38] <highvoltage> not that we actually need an hour, but still
[19:38] <mhall119> hmmm, friday may not be good, will be out of town and at a clinic
[19:38] <mhall119> my internet time will be spotty at best
[19:39] <highvoltage> mhall119: ok, or if you want you can just install it from this ppa and poke me any time: https://launchpad.net/~jonathan/+archive/debm
[19:40] <highvoltage> I just need to add some preseeding/debconf support to it, then you could use it for daily builds too if you want
[19:40] <mhall119> cool, I'll grab it and poke around as I have time
[19:40] <highvoltage> currently you have to just choose 'no' for installing grub during the build process, but other than that it's quite good
[19:41] <highvoltage> for the qimo build it does, you just have to choose 'qimo' from gdm, otherwise you get a xfce session by default
[19:41] <highvoltage> but from a previous discussion we had I understand that's the intended behaviour of the qimo-session package in ubuntu
[19:41] <mhall119> wow, even has a qimo example, handy
[19:42] <highvoltage> yeah, I tested it with qimo :)
[19:42] <highvoltage> anything else for this meeting?
[19:42] <mhall119> correct, qimo-session shouldn't set gdm or plymouth themes
[19:42] <stgraber> nope
[19:42] <mhall119> I'll make a qimo-desktop to include and set them
[19:43] <highvoltage> mhall119: cool, that will be perfect
[19:43] <mhall119> awesome, thanks highvoltage
[19:43] <highvoltage> ok, meeting adjourned!
[21:00] <poolie> hi?
[21:02] <flacoste> hi!
[21:02] <NCommander> hi?
[21:03] <JackyAlcine> :D
[21:03] <JackyAlcine> oops. Hi!
[21:06] <poolie> meeting starting soon from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20110112
[21:07] <poolie> hello barry!
[21:07] <poolie> Ubuntu Distributed Development steering meeting starting soon
[21:07] <poolie> START
[21:07] <poolie> #startmeeting
[21:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:07. The chair is poolie.
[21:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:07] <poolie> blood rushes to my head
[21:08] <poolie> is there anyone here for this meeting that's not in dallas?
[21:08] <flacoste> me
[21:08] <poolie> hi, flacoste!
[21:09] <poolie> [topic] ajmitch to come up with questions/topics for next meeting (re: REVU)
[21:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  ajmitch to come up with questions/topics for next meeting (re: REVU)
[21:09] <poolie> don't know if he's here?
[21:09] <poolie> let's leave it unless/until he shows up
[21:09] <poolie> [topic] poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
[21:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  poolie to send bzr rotation pitch to platform mailing list
[21:09] <poolie> the idea is to see if someone from the platform would like to work on udd for a while
[21:09] <poolie> have not sent mail; still should; will talk to people here about it too
[21:10] <poolie> [topic] Bugs of interest:
[21:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugs of interest:
[21:10] <poolie> some bugs are listed in the agenda page
[21:10] <poolie> we can actually cross quite a few off, which is nice
[21:10] <poolie> http://pad.lv/556132 - don't drop SSH connection after sending 1GB - now fixed on qastaging; will be fixed on lpnet in  afew days
[21:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.lv/556132 - don't drop SSH connection after sending 1GB - now fixed on qastaging; will be fixed on lpnet in  afew days
[21:11] <poolie> http://pad.lv/375013 - support committing direct to stacked branches - now fixed in bzr trunk, will be in 2.3/natty
[21:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.lv/375013 - support committing direct to stacked branches - now fixed in bzr trunk, will be in 2.3/natty
[21:11] <poolie> (watch file support) - james_w and barry to sprint on that at uds-n
[21:11] <poolie> uds-n happened - did this?
[21:11] <barry> james and i started looking at it, but i got distracted on other work
[21:12] <poolie> is there a bug for it?
[21:12] <barry> there is a bug.  it's so merge-package doesn't need the version #
[21:12] <poolie> http://pad.lv/295274
[21:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.lv/295274
[21:12] <barry> not likely to be done any time soon by myself or james
[21:12] <barry> :(
[21:13] <jml> poolie: actually, fixed on lpnet in a few _hours_
[21:13] <barry> s/merge-package/merge-upstream/
[21:13] <jml> poolie: we're rolling out at 2300Z
[21:13] <poolie> barry says he won't get to it soon
[21:13] <poolie> should we shortlist it for bzr?
[21:13] <poolie> perhaps i should go into that here
[21:13] <poolie> [topic] bzr bug handling
[21:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  bzr bug handling
[21:14] <poolie> we had some discussion at the bzr sprint about the way we queue incoming work
[21:14] <poolie> at the moment we are not getting the right balance across bzr itself, and other projects in lp
[21:14] <poolie> we were using the 'udd' project, but that has a lot of bugs that are about the package importer
[21:14] <poolie> mixed in with our shortlist bugs
[21:14]  * barry will unassign himself
[21:15] <poolie> so instead we are going to have some bugs assigned to ~bzr as a short list
[21:15] <poolie> this will be capped at one page
[21:15] <poolie> (which is probably 25 bugs)
[21:15] <poolie> sorry
[21:15] <poolie> ~canonical-bazaar, not ~bzrc
[21:15] <poolie> or even ~bzr
[21:15] <poolie> (Comments welcome)
[21:15] <jam> I think he meant ~mbp
[21:16] <poolie> the mechanism is a bit arbitrary
[21:16] <poolie> but this seems worth a try
[21:16] <barry> "constraint not satisfied"
[21:17] <poolie> said the melancholy masochist
[21:17] <poolie> ok next
[21:17] <poolie> https://launchpad.net/bugs/653307
[21:18] <poolie> back to the bugs
[21:18] <poolie> so we talked about one similar to this
[21:18] <poolie> may be fixed?
[21:19] <spiv> This one appears to be an old problem, and we plan to just delete the affected imports
[21:19] <spiv> I should grab james_w here in dallas and just get it done
[21:19] <poolie> barry asks, what's the cause?
[21:19] <highvoltage> .wub 17
[21:20] <poolie> so, probably not fixed, but underway
[21:20] <poolie> anything else to say on that bug?
[21:20] <spiv> I don't think so.
[21:20] <poolie> btw i think in future meetings we can probably mostly scan the bugs assigned to ~canonical-bazaar and its members (
[21:20] <poolie> our shortlist)
[21:20] <poolie> i need to setup an api client to make a single page showing all of them
[21:20] <poolie> some won't be relevant
[21:21] <poolie> ok, how about https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/603395
[21:21] <poolie> also still in progress, or fixed recently?
[21:21] <spiv> Still in progress, but close!  Fixed this week I hope.  I intend to get back to landing it after this meeting :)
[21:21] <poolie> hooray
[21:22] <poolie> https://launchpad.net/bugs/653832
[21:22] <poolie> ok, that's on the shortlist and doesn't seem to have been investigated yet
[21:22] <poolie> we'll leave it there
[21:22] <poolie> https://launchpad.net/bugs/499684
[21:22] <poolie> probably true :)
[21:23] <poolie> mm
[21:23] <poolie> the bug makes sense
[21:23] <poolie> is it high priority?
[21:23] <barry> note that i am working on a separate sphinx docs to get away from editing the wiki, and to merge in /usr/share/doc/bzr-builddeb/user_manual
[21:24] <barry> i will at least add this to my doc branch, which might be enough to close the bug ;)
[21:24] <barry> so i suppose i should assign it to myself
[21:24] <poolie> or at least to suppress it
[21:24] <poolie> thanks barry
[21:24] <poolie> http://pad.lv/608450
[21:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://pad.lv/608450
[21:24] <poolie> come on
[21:25] <poolie> "can't use run in recipes"
[21:25] <poolie> seems to be closed as invalid
[21:25] <poolie> let's leave sleeping dogs lie for now
[21:25] <poolie> ok that's the end of the hot bugs list
[21:25] <poolie> [topic] new hot bug nominations?
[21:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  new hot bug nominations?
[21:26] <poolie> i think going over the short list is good because we get to be happy about ones that are fixed and be reminded of those that aren't
[21:26] <poolie> however obviously (to me) we can't discuss every udd bug every week
[21:26] <poolie> ok, no objections, so i'll go on
[21:27] <poolie> [topic] bzr plan 2011
[21:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  bzr plan 2011
[21:27] <poolie> https://wiki.canonical.com/Bazaar/Plan/2011#preview
[21:27] <poolie> internal only now, sorry
[21:27] <poolie> ah, i think everyone at the rally has seen (version of) it, so perhaps i should just talk to francis about it later
[21:27] <barry> yep, it looked good
[21:27] <poolie> it mostly needs
[21:28] <poolie> - making things more specific as in "we'll know we're done when"
[21:28] <barry> well, "good" in the sense of relatively complete list of things we all hope will get done eventually ;)
[21:28] <poolie> - getting rough size estimates
[21:28] <poolie> - sorting
[21:28] <poolie> - perhaps working out how far down the list we're likely to get at our current velocity
[21:28] <poolie> during 2011
[21:28] <poolie> [topic] any other business
[21:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other business
[21:28] <barry> poolie: can we post this publicly after you have your resource and planning meetings, i.e. for udd meeting in 2 weeks?
[21:29] <poolie> i think so
[21:29] <barry> cool, thanks
[21:29]  * poolie post bzr 2011 plans - poolie
[21:29] <poolie> [action] post bzr 2011 plans - poolie
[21:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  post bzr 2011 plans - poolie
[21:30] <poolie> flacoste, anything from you?
[21:30] <flacoste> nope
[21:30] <flacoste> i need to look at the pag ethoguhe
[21:31] <poolie> i hear they serve an excellent Pag Ethoguhe in Budapest :)
[21:31] <poolie> ok, thanks everyone
[21:31] <poolie> #endmeeting
[21:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
[21:31] <barry> poolie, thanks so much for running it!
[21:31] <poolie> np, thanks for your help