[00:00] here [00:00] here [00:00] good showing this time... thanks for making it everyone [00:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Meetings#preview [00:00] topics are there [00:00] here [00:01] here [00:01] I want to take some time to discuss Focus Groups [00:01] [topic] focus groups [00:01] New Topic: focus groups [00:01] as there have been some mis-perceptions about them [00:01] b/39 [00:01] Focus Groups are for practical purposes umbrellas [00:02] they have a lead person who coordinates that group [00:02] they will contain sub-groups or interest areas... [00:02] or experts in a certain area that is under that group [00:02] to give two examples... [00:02] lubuntu is a sub-area under support... [00:03] accessibility is a sub-area under support and development [00:04] cprofitt: that sounds fantastic to me. [00:04] we used to form Focus Groups for each interest area, but due to passing interests and people moving on to dedicate themselves to other things we have a very fluid state with focus groups [00:04] we do not want to have that amount of 'churn' for new people trying to find their way [00:05] in rare cases we may form a sep. FG -- if there is enough interest... and large enough group of people... and an existing team that requests that FG to be created [00:05] note it will take all three of those to happen [00:05] any questions? [00:05] Nope [00:06] cprofitt: thanks for clearing it all up. [00:06] I have taken the liberty to register #ubuntu-beginners-accessibility [00:06] Hmm...That is a good question. Do we actually want IRC channels for the sub-areas? [00:07] UndiFineD: Can you make UBTCouncil a founder in there? [00:07] I noticed people saying such has their interest, now people could go to #ubuntu-accessibility or we could discuss to have them pass this channel first [00:08] nhandler: I would be happy to do so [00:08] Yes, but if it is part of the support fg, it might make sense to use that IRC channel (or the accessibility team channel) [00:10] * Timo_ is here as well [00:10] maybe, it was just a thought, and we could discuss it outside the meeting [00:12] nhandler: we can take that off-line [00:12] sorry, but I was typing in the wrong channel [00:12] irris fail [00:12] heh [00:12] in conjunction with that we have to re-define mentors [00:13] to help them learn about the team, the process and the skills needed to contribute to that team [00:13] becoming a mentor will require some work [00:13] how about some classes ? [00:13] * phillw back... [00:14] so mentors are dedicated to a specific are of knowledge... they will fall under a specific FG [00:14] we then need people who will assist people with becoming UBT members... [00:14] in the past those folks were called mentors... but to avoid confusion we need a new name [00:14] * phillw waves hand.... [00:14] one group (mentors) are subject experts [00:15] the other group are more guides [00:15] cprofitt, in the past they were called 'masters', no? :) [00:15] we also called them masters in the distant past in a galazy far far away [00:15] :D [00:16] masters and padawan [00:16] we could revert to that term... [00:16] we just need to have two different terms... to avoid confusion [00:16] becoming a mentor will involve much more proof that you are a subject expert [00:17] [VOTE]use the term master to describe UBT guides [00:17] Please vote on: use the term master to describe UBT guides. [00:17] Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to MootBot [00:17] E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from phillw. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1 [00:17] Private +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 2 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from egossett. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3 [00:17] +1 received from UndiFineD. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from IAmNotThatGuy. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from cprofitt. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6 [00:17] +1 [00:17] +1 received from Timo_. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7 [00:17] any more votes? [00:18] +1 [00:18] +1 received from hajour. 8 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 8 [00:18] cprofitt, only UBT members can vote right? [00:18] IAmNotThatGuy: yes [00:18] sorry [00:18] sorry [00:18] soon IAmNotThatGuy soon [00:18] no worries egossett [00:18] be patient padawan [00:18] :- [00:18] ) [00:18] kk [00:18] (: [00:18] last call for votes [00:19] [endvote] [00:19] Final result is 8 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 8 [00:19] cprofitt: do you want to carry out the vote after the election of the new padawans, as it does directly affect them? [00:19] [agreed]guides will now be called Masters [00:19] AGREED received: guides will now be called Masters [00:19] anyone want to volunteer to update our wiki? [00:19] cprofitt: I'll do it. [00:19] some padawan who wants to work with the doc team? [00:19] I have to be right back, I need to reboot to fix some permissions [00:20] [action] phillw will update wiki with master information [00:20] ACTION received: phillw will update wiki with master information [00:20] that would be me [00:20] thanks phillw [00:20] phillw: can you let UndiFineD do it? [00:20] [action] UndiFineD will update the wiki with information about Masters [00:20] ACTION received: UndiFineD will update the wiki with information about Masters [00:20] there we go [00:20] :) [00:21] [TOPIC] New Members Announcement [00:21] New Topic: New Members Announcement [00:21] cprofitt: UndiFineD if you want to do it, be my guest. [00:21] as was agreed to last meeting the council is now responsible for voting on new UBT members [00:21] there are several that have been put before the council [00:21] but I want everyone to understand the process [00:22] a padawan or their master can put them forward to the council [00:22] the padawan should have testimonials on their wiki [00:22] the padawan is encouraged to either be present at the council meeting or send the council an email with their statement of why they feel they are ready [00:23] the council, and I apologize for this, has not determined a meeting date/time [00:23] but we are looking at doing a regular meeting... [00:23] and we will meet soon about the people we have in the que now [00:23] I apologize to them for the delay [00:24] also... I want to make everyone aware of the current que of folks seeking masters.... [00:24] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Membership [00:24] we have 15 people looking for help on joining the BT. [00:24] we need to get these folks paired up... [00:24] cprofitt, that is quite a queue [00:25] we also need to get the Masters list updated so masters are under their TZ [00:25] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors [00:25] which is why I suggested doing classes on becoming a master [00:25] UndiFineD: good suggestion... we can look at doing that... [00:25] cprofitt: with no disrespect to the council, and I know full well you are up to your collective eyeballs in work. We do really need to shift our padawans off and elect mentors. There is a 'log-jam'. [00:25] can you send an email to the list with that suggestion and some details on how we would run that? [00:26] masters you mean phillw ? [00:26] or mentors? [00:26] I'm sorry, I'm back [00:26] UndiFineD, The first rule of becoming a master is the First rule of becoming a master. :~) [00:27] hmmm ibuclaw must be a jedi [00:27] inetpro, (: [00:27] erm tab fails )': [00:27] The rest is simply being there to answer any questions they may have about team internal processes. [00:27] ok... phillw did you mean log jam for masters or mentors? [00:27] * pedro3005 is here :P [00:27] hey pedro3005 [00:28] * CensoredBiscuit arrived late and feels lost [00:28] cprofitt: bioterror is a mentor yet to be elected, as for masters the faster we get them approved, the sooner we can adopt the ones waiting. It is heartbreaking to hear them plea for a mentor :'( [00:28] CensoredBiscuit: we will post the minnutes after the meeting [00:28] cprofitt, I put my mentees for membership I think [00:28] well at least I added it on the meeting table [00:28] phillw: well the folks on that list are looking for masters... not mentors [00:28] I am aware of bioterror and the issue has been raised with the council [00:28] I ll br gone in 10 mins. powercut :'( [00:29] cprofitt, so that entire page needs moving and a new table put in it's place? [00:29] ibuclaw: the table needs to be renamed at the top [00:29] UndiFineD: is working on it [00:29] after the meeting [00:30] we then will need a new table for mentors -- which we have zero of right now [00:30] I mean [00:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Mentors [00:30] and a list of people looking to be made mentors [00:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/Masters [00:30] yes [00:30] ibuclaw: the mentors page can have two tables on it... [00:30] kk [00:30] mentors and masters... with some explanation as to the difference [00:31] when are you guys going to look at the people up for membership? [00:31] pedro3005: We are working on that as I speak [00:31] literally [00:32] ok, great [00:32] the council will be meeting immediately following this meeting to consider those in the que [00:32] ok... there are no other topics [00:33] any other last minute business? [00:33] o/ [00:33] yes nhandler [00:33] cprofitt: I know that pedro3005 also has a list of people wanting to be a padawan, as does at least one other mentor. We need the queue clearing so we can help. [00:33] I just want to remind everyone that we will have a BT Council election probably around the start of March. So think about if you might be interested in running [00:34] nhandler: what positions are up? [00:34] cprofitt: You, me, and bodhi. I updated https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-beginners-council/+members [00:35] I thought we served two year terms... [00:35] cprofitt: Yeah. You joined in 2009 [00:35] but not sure when the last election was... [00:35] cprofitt: Half the council joined a year after us in 2010 [00:35] I also believe we decided not to fill bodhi's seat (so the council will be 5 people) when he expires [00:35] I did... but I thought I was just recently re-elected... but maybe not... I will have to look back [00:36] it's been 2 years since 2009? [00:36] damn! [00:36] ok... no other business? [00:36] nhandler: if you need an admin person, then I will do it (i.e. put up for election). [00:36] cprofitt: You might have. I can't remember if we were up for re-election in the last batch or not [00:36] #endmeeting [00:36] Meeting finished at 18:36. [00:36] alright... the council will be meeting about the new UBT members [00:36] I hope to update those folks tonight [00:37] thanks everyone. [00:37] cprofitt: thanks, for chairing the meeting. [00:37] yep was fun [00:37] thank you all [00:38] :) [00:45] why is this bot running times like this [00:45] 18:36 whilst it is 01:36 in GMT+1 [00:46] Why doesn't it use GMT or CET? [00:47] Timo_, in an ideal world, I guess it should follow UTC === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === lan3y is now known as Laney === niko is now known as evilNiko === fader_ is now known as fader === fader_ is now known as fader === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === yofel_ is now known as yofel === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch [18:03] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings [18:03] the agenda hasn't been tidied since the last meeting [18:04] but let's start with memberships [18:04] o\ [18:04] oh my [18:04] stalcup: you want to be a kubuntu member again? [18:04] Riddell: yes, I have cjilled for over a year now and as of 4.5.5 I'm ready to be back [18:05] chilled* [18:05] you still love us? [18:05] with all my heart <3 [18:05] * Quintasan hugs stalcup [18:05] it's really hard not to love the kubuntu team [18:05] stalcup: tell us a bit about yourself and what you want to do in Kubuntu? [18:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SteveStalcup [18:05] thanks Riddell [18:06] 'ello Riddel [18:06] et al [18:06] :) [18:06] I've been an ubuntu/kubuntu user for over 5 years now [18:06] I started contributing to Kubuntu during 8.04 cycl [18:06] * rgreening friendly punches stalcup in the arm :) [18:07] hehe ,'lo rgreening [18:07] I have also helped with several release updaates [18:07] stalcup was also a member of the original Kubuntu Ninjas dreamteam. [18:07] I would like to do that again [18:07] he's the admin of ~kubuntu-ninjas no less [18:07] yep, thoses weree the days [18:08] Riddell: odd eh? [18:08] but basicly, I miss you guys (and I need less sleep) [18:09] oh, and I'm a MOTU [18:09] * rgreening misses stalcup also .. haha [18:09] stalcup: how do you rate your own packaging skills? how do you think you managed with 4.5.5 for example? [18:10] maemologger: I thought we were supposed to slap +1 sticker on every item on agenda for you :P [18:10] well, I was slower and more dileberate - but thats good [18:10] its really like riding a bike [18:11] I really enjoyed packaging 4.5.5 [18:11] stalcup: actually I thought you were surprisingly fast, did you do them one at a time or in parallel, what checks did you do at the end of compiling to make sure it was ok? [18:11] :O [18:11] well, that was the slow part [18:12] I didnt know about the meta package - that did not help me [18:12] it can be a blocker right enough [18:12] stalcup: since the last time you were here and active, what do you see as needing to change (if anything) to make us better at what we do? [18:12] :P [18:12] More phononess [18:12] Obviously :P [18:13] maemologger != stalcup :) [18:13] :P [18:13] I would like to see moer coordiation via the mailing list, and more karma for JontheEchidna [18:13] :D [18:13] :D [18:13] sorry, my hands are shaking :s [18:14] lol [18:14] mailing lists are a weak point for me [18:14] np stalcup :) [18:14] stalcup: you got the version numbers wrong on some packages in 4.5.5, how can that be prevented in future? [18:14] since my job is afk, email is about the only commnication I have [18:15] yes, I already have a plan for this [18:15] I printed out the dep chaart, and make a checklist for every package [18:16] the checklist includes complete/deb check [18:16] I plan on makeing a wiki page of reminders, or recipies [18:17] stalcup: do you think you understand what's expected of members with respect to the code of conduct? [18:17] 100% understand [18:17] any other questions anyone? [18:18] I've really learned alot about who I am, and how others see me, and how what I say or do impacts may people [18:18] It has been a very humbling year [18:18] ok [18:19] +1 from me based on above [18:19] +1 [18:19] +1 [18:19] +1 [18:19] +1 too [18:19] whoo hoo! <3 to all! [18:19] yay stalcup :P [18:19] welcome back stalcup [18:20] \o/ [18:20] welcome back dooooooooooooooooood [18:20] thank you all! [18:20] * Quintasan highfives stalcup [18:20] * stalcup does backflips and ^5 Quintasan [18:20] stalcup: you got some WB karma :P [18:20] yofel_n900: are you around? [18:20] * shadeslayer hugs stalcup and gives him some koffee [18:21] now [18:21] thanks shadeslayer [18:21] stalcup: have some whiskey to stop the shaking :D [18:21] (came home a minute ago...) [18:21] no joke [18:22] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PhilipMuskovac [18:22] yofel: who are you and why do you want to be a kubuntu member? [18:22] stalcup: welcome back. I was not very happy about some posts you made in the past and my +1 is based about what you said about coc [18:23] thanks neversfelde [18:23] Hi folks, I'm Philip Muskovac, 24, and I've been a linux user for around 4 years, and a k/ubuntu user for 3 years now [18:23] I started contributing to ubuntu during intrepid, and I started testing and giving support for Kubuntu again since karmic [18:23] Question: is this an open meeting? [18:24] JackyAlcine: yes [18:24] yofel: how did you learn about packaging? [18:25] stalcup: I didn't want to interrupt. Thanks. [18:25] I've mostly learned it first by being part in the bugsquad and trying to fix simple bugs, later started building my own daily packages and started helping with kubuntu packages after that [18:26] "Get into iso testing" that's something I've found hard to keep people enthused about [18:26] I've been giving user support on IRC too when I had time for it and helped setting up the KDE daily builds [18:26] >when I had time [18:26] it takes a lot of time then when a bug is found people feel their time has been wasted (which is obviously not true) [18:26] This makes you look like you have a lot of time yofel :)) [18:27] yofel: based on bugsquad work, how is Kubuntu doing with managing the level of bugs we have reported? [18:28] Riddell: kubuntu is doing rather well compared to the overall ubuntu project, that we report KDE bugs directly upstream helps a lot there [18:28] Quintasan: really? I wish I had more time, but my schedule isn't that stable [18:30] so far I've really enjoyed helping with the 4.6 packaging, learned that I'll have to learn more about library packaging though, which I'm doing currently [18:31] nobody else got questions? [18:31] No [18:31] yofel: "Make Kubuntu easier to use for everyone. " any more details about this? [18:32] neversfelde: mostly trying to ensure better Q/A on the things a user sees first, since I found it esp. hard to install the proprietary drivers on my dads pc which should go pretty easily normally [18:32] I would like to say that yofel (and shadeslayer) are a big help in Project Neon, I would be able to do it myself probably but it would take MUCH more time. If he gets this many thing done in his free time the he is a very effective worker :) [18:33] yofel: what do you think about our default plasma desktop with folderview and the microblogging plasma-widget, it's what the user sees first? [18:34] neversfelde: I find that pretty good, you still have access to the desktop folder while using plasma, the microblogging widget is something I don't use, but that's personal (looks good though) [18:35] yofel: really? I do not like it :) [18:35] kk, no more questions [18:35] +1 from me for useful and very competant contributions [18:35] What are we voting on btw? [18:35] membership for yofel [18:35] +1 from me for the good work so far [18:35] +1 [18:36] +1 then [18:36] not council but +1 :) [18:36] welcome in yofel [18:36] welcome yofel [18:36] * Quintasan throws confetti at yofel [18:36] hurrray, now I can stop shaking.. *phew* [18:36] hahaha :D [18:36] * shadeslayer hands out koffee to yofel [18:36] Check ur mail [18:36] thanks :D [18:37] +1 [18:37] lol [18:37] was distracted [18:37] by $wrk [18:37] :) [18:37] welcome [18:37] * yofel hugs maemologger [18:38] thanks rgreening [18:38] now Quintasan wants into kubuntu-dev [18:38] * Quintasan hands whisKey to yofel [18:38] Gulp. :) [18:38] which is something for kubuntu-dev to vote on [18:38] so we'll probably have to discuss it by e-mail after the meeting [18:38] but Quintasan do introduce your work so far and we'll quiz you a bit here [18:38] I would prefer maiil [18:39] Sorta difficult to intervu from the n900 [18:39] So, short introduction, eh? My name is Michal, I'm soon going to turn 18 years old. I have been using Kubuntu since Dapper I think and I started contributing somewhere in the middle of Jaunty cycle. [18:40] I think I started with patching Qt 4 since we had problems with that one at that point it time. It was quite an fast paced adventure for me [18:40] in kde4libs 4:4.5.95-0ubuntu1~maverick1~ppa1 what is the relevance of each part of the version number? [18:41] lol [18:42] * rgreening thinks Riddell sometimes forgets and uploads to main :) [18:43] >0ubuntu1 - 0 means no Debian upload of this package and ubuntu1 means this is the first upload in ubuntu, the ~maverick1 is obviously indicating maverick upload and if I am not mistaken decreases the version so 4.5.95-0ubuntu1 upload would replace it [18:43] and 4:4.5.95 ? [18:44] 4: is the..epoch I think [18:44] yep [18:44] and 4.5.95 is the release version [18:45] all good [18:45] how important is the Section: field in debian/control ? [18:45] It indicates to which section in the repository the package belongs to [18:46] ^if not present, package managers that don't protect against null const char pointers being returned from libapt-pkg will crash [18:46] :P [18:46] Oh :D [18:46] (Not the answer jr was looking for) :P [18:46] hahaha [18:46] Quintasan: but is it actually useful for anything (this is an opinion question as much as anything) [18:48] Riddell: Hmm, makes easier to find the package we are looking for, and on second but quite unorganised though I think packages in Section: kde could be in Kubuntu seed for example [18:48] The second one is based on the archive reorg so I'm not sure if this would be entirely safe to do :) [18:49] when will kdelibs5 have to be changed to kdelibs6 ? [18:49] ... I saw that coming [18:50] If it becomes either soname gets bumped or it becomes binary incompatible I think [18:51] becomes kdelibs6* [18:51] yep [18:51] or when KDE 5 get released :) [18:51] hopefully both would happen simulaneously [18:51] what is the purpose of the kde-sc-dev-latest package? [18:51] JontheEchidna: it pulls all latestest DEVelopment packages required to build KDE modules [18:51] latest* [18:52] * Quintasan 's hands are shaking as well :S [18:52] Quintasan: in effect, but technically it breaks the dependency chain if a package with too low a version is present [18:52] JontheEchidna: and by that it makes sure we are not building with an older version of dev files [18:52] ok, I'm satisfied with that :) [18:52] what is the significance of debian/compat being 7 ? [18:53] Riddell: It means that debian/rules most likely uses things that are COMPATible only with debhelper 7 or newer [18:54] or new source format I think [18:55] groovy, I think we'll contrinue the discussion by e-mail [18:55] thanks for taking the grilling [18:55] * Quintasan feels roasted [18:56] I could use some seasonings [18:56] someone added Project Neon launch to the agenda [18:56] \o [18:57] Quintasan: what's the issue? [18:58] well ... KDE Migrating to Git and cache issues :P [18:58] Riddell: Well, there are no issues at the moment but I wanted to know where are we going to announce it and how should we (Project Neon team) handle anything that might come up. I have already set up a ML and a bug tracker [18:59] I think it should be announced as soon as it's next in a working state [18:59] and as shadeslayer mentioned we have a cache issue but if I get to it at the weekend it should get sorted out [18:59] is it in a working state? [18:59] Riddell: id like to not announce it till KDE finishes its migration to Git [18:59] Riddell: it is working but the cache issue makes it change Pager settings from the stable release [18:59] and yeah, shadeslayer just imported split kdebindings [19:00] that way we can further modularize stuff in neon and get better QA [19:00] yep [19:00] ill start working on them tomorrow [19:00] im also tracking the migration on #kde-git [19:00] Riddell: and where we can announce it? I want to get as many people to use it as possible [19:00] Quintasan: kubuntu.org than I can do a story on dot.kde.org [19:00] kde4libs is scheduled to move to git on the weekend after KDE 4.6 SC is released [19:01] Blogs [19:01] Forums [19:01] * shadeslayer runs [19:01] News sites [19:01] Microblogs [19:01] shadeslayer: I can already see the workload [19:01] Just bring it up randomly in channels [19:01] Quintasan: no ... i still dont have a blog entry .. :P [19:01] maemologger: i do it on #kde-git alot :P [19:02] shadeslayer: That's your problem :P [19:02] also ... im afraid of this currently : http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/kdebindings-deps-colors.png [19:02] wibble [19:03]