/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/14/#ubuntu-ops.txt

ubottuxangua called the ops in #ubuntu ()02:08
tonyyarussoOoo, fancy-pants poll invite.04:20
tonyyarussobother, there's a substantially higher ratio of "people I think would be great for the job" this time around - have to actually think :S04:27
Madpilotactual thought whilst voting? Imagine!04:32
tonyyarussohehe04:32
tonyyarussoyeah, I'm one of those nerdy people that prints out a sample ballot, researches the candidates all the way down through judges and soil & water commissioners, make notes on it, and bring that with me to the polls.04:33
FlannelYou have to print out a sample ballot?04:34
Madpilotvoting for judges... sorry, don't get me started. I'll just refile it under Exotic Foreign Practices.04:34
tonyyarussoFlannel: so I can remember my choices when I get there04:34
tonyyarussoMadpilot: hehe04:34
Flanneltonyyarusso: Right, we get sample ballots mailed to us (these are also the absentee ones if you need to vote by mail)04:34
tonyyarussoMadpilot: hey, at least we don't have appointed unvetted Senators-for-life04:35
Madpilotfor municipal elections with big fields, I usually know three or four I'll vote for, one or two I'd never in all eternity vote for, and take potluck or ignore the rest.04:35
tonyyarussoFlannel: Usually those are sent by the political parties and don't bother including the non-partisan races on the back of the ballot.04:35
tonyyarussoWe don't get a sample ballot mailed by the actual government.04:36
Madpilottonyyarusso, OK, you can just file our senators in the same file I put your judges :)04:36
tonyyarussoMadpilot: I prefer to file them under "this is wrong and should be abolished" rather than "huh, weird".04:37
Madpilotand they are so vetted. A certain skill at Prime-Ministerial buttock smooching counts as vetting, doesn't it?04:37
tonyyarussoSingle house elected with MMPR with Condorcet RCV for the local constituency seats FTW!04:37
Madpilottranslate that from Political Geek back to English for the rest of us, plz?04:38
tonyyarusso:(04:38
tonyyarussoCondorcet RCV = the system being used to elect new IRC Council members as we speak - it's one of many ranked-choice systems.04:38
Madpilotah, gotcha. And MMPR is Mixed Member PropRep, I recall04:39
tonyyarussoMMPR = Mixed Member Proportional Representation - used by Germany and New Zealand, recommended for Canada by the Law Commission of Canada's study on electoral reform.  Involves most of the house representing local ridings like they do now, and then a certain number of seats being used to "top off" in proportions such that the finally total of members broken down by party matches the percentage of the popular vote for each party in ...04:40
tonyyarusso... the party-specific section of the ballot.  (The individual candidates are a separate vote from your generic party preference vote.)04:40
tonyyarussoAnd single house obviously means abolish the senate.04:41
Madpilotgotcha04:41
Madpilotwe've come close twice to some sort of MMPR here in BC, but never quite convinced enough people04:41
Madpilotpossibly Gordon Campbell's only moment of near-greatness, the whole Citizen Assembly thing04:42
tonyyarussoSome MMPR systems have the top-off seats assigned to regions as well, so one way you could do it would be to eliminate the senate, take the number of seats that the senate had and make them the top-off seats for the house, thus not even needing to redraw the riding boundaries.04:42
tonyyarussoRequiring 60% supermajority fail though :(04:43
IdleOnetonyyarusso for president of the USA and prime minister of Canada.04:48
IdleOneone world!04:48
IdleOnewait04:49
IdleOneI take that back04:49
IdleOnejust move to Canada and run for office.04:49
MadpilotAFAIK we have no native-born requirements for any office in the Dominion.04:49
IdleOnejust needs to be a citizen I think04:50
Madpilotcertainly a long string of Gov-Gens were born overseas04:50
IdleOnebut yeah i don't think he has to be born here04:50
tonyyarussoIdleOne: I'm currently eligible for neither post :P04:50
IdleOnein the US you are to young and in Canada you don't have citizenship04:51
tonyyarussoBut no, Canada does not have any native-born nor age requirements for anything.  The US has both.  (native-born and 35 years for President)04:51
tonyyarussoexactly04:51
IdleOneUS have to be born there, min. 35 and lived in the us for 15 years04:51
MadpilotWikipedia says simple citizenship & eligible to vote (18+) for PM04:52
tonyyarussoYup.04:52
IdleOnewell get your citizenship and make it so I don't have to pay more taxes and you got my vote04:53
tonyyarussoSo if you guys want me to run for office there, you should arrange for a job offer for me in Thunder Bay, start date circa January 2012.04:53
tonyyarussoheh, there's a decent chance I'd raise your taxes :P04:53
tonyyarussoDepending on the economic conditions at the time, anyway.04:54
IdleOnedon't know about Thunder bay and why you are so stuck on moving to the middle of nowhere04:54
tonyyarussopsssh, it's not the middle of nowhere.  It's perfect.04:54
MadpilotIdleOne, he's used to the middle of nowhere, he's already in the US version of same04:54
IdleOnewell I don't mind paying taxes as long as it isn't to give pay raises to the politicians04:54
tonyyarussofair enough.04:54
tonyyarussoMPs already make a pretty good amount afaik04:54
IdleOneMadpilot: I suspect job opps in Thunder Bay are slim to none04:54
tonyyarussoMadpilot: ....04:54
tonyyarussoMadpilot: I'm in a metro area of 3 million people.04:55
tonyyarussocertainly *advertised* jobs in TB are hard to come by04:55
tonyyarussonon-zero, but small04:55
Madpilotthe PM's salary isn't bad, but it's not AFAIK spectacular given the hours...04:56
Madpilot"In a poll conducted by Ipsos-Reid following the first prorogation of the 40th parliament on 4 December 2008, it was found that 51% of the sample group thought the prime minister was directly elected by Canadians"04:57
Madpilotouch.04:57
tonyyarussogood lord04:58
MadpilotDear Fellow-Countrypersons, "Prime Minister of Canada" != "American President". Thank you.04:58
Madpilotfrom Wiki's PM of Canuckistan article04:58
tonyyarussoSo, if you usually have like 62% voter turnout, which 9% didn't notice that the PM wasn't on their ballot?04:58
tonyyarussowow, mathfail04:59
Madpilotyeah, not sure where you were going there04:59
tonyyarusso3% - I think that's what I meant04:59
tonyyarussoAssume that 48% are ignorant, 51% are still wrong, so 3% voted but still got it wrong.  Yeah.05:00
Madpilotthe whole proroguation (sp?) episode revealed vast gaps in basic civic knowledge in this country05:00
tonyyarussoThis of course assumes Ipsos-Reid was polling eligible voters.05:00
tonyyarussoindeed05:00
Madpiloteven PM Harper thought we elected his government05:01
tonyyarussoIt doesn't help that your PM keeps trying to convince people that coalitions are illegal.05:01
Madpilotwe elected the Parliament of which your gov't is a part, mate.05:01
tonyyarussoNote to Stevie:  David can remove you any time he pleases, just for giggles.05:01
MadpilotJean should have. Would have been epic. "No, you may not prorogue Parliament just because it's inconvenient. Good day, Mr. Harper."05:02
tonyyarussoI suppose referring to the GG by first name is probably a faux pas of some sort, eh?05:02
MadpilotI'm sure05:02
tonyyarussoYeah, I don't know what she was thinking - that was rather surprising.05:02
Madpilotthey are Lizzie the Tooth's Official Viceroyal Representatives to the Dominion of Canada, after all05:03
tonyyarusso"His semi-royal highness" :P05:03
MadpilotViceregal05:03
Madpilotwhich is "semi-royal" dressed up for the town05:03
elkytonyyarusso, it's a bit of a disconnect for most people. they often vote for the party whose leader they prefer, hence think they're voting for the leader even though the words on the page they tickytick indicate something completely different.05:14
elkyWhile Ipsos-Reid knew what they were asking, the participants possibly thought they meant something else.05:15
tonyyarussoYour faith in humanity is impressive :)05:16
Madpilotelky, true enough. I've voted against local candidates I didn't mind because I couldn't stand the thought of their party actually forming a government.05:17
Madpilotone local MP we always called "Wrong-party Keith"05:17
elkytonyyarusso, nah, just my faith in statistics is appalling.05:19
elkyThe problem with survey statistics is that they depend on people knowing and recalling stuff. I don't have faith they can do that.05:19
tonyyarussoWas Wrong-party Keith aware of this nickname?05:19
Madpilotno, it was pretty much a family joke.05:20
ubottuIn #ubuntu, mrchinosun said: !google why is ubuntu05:20
iktHi, how do I report a user for abuse?08:12
IdleOnewhat user and type of abuse?08:12
Tm_Tand where?08:12
iktin #ubuntu, and in private message, user sta7ic08:14
IdleOnewhat exactly is this user doing?08:15
iktvery insulting08:15
ikti can pm you what he said?08:16
IdleOneikt: there really is not much we can do about PM abuse. Best advice is to ignore them.08:16
IdleOneikt: sure08:16
IdleOneq_a_z_steve: How can we help you?08:16
IdleOneq_a_z_steve: do you need any help?08:20
IdleOneq_a_z_steve: welcome back, anything I can do for you?08:21
q_a_z_steveSorry. Crappy wimax this close to my bed???08:21
q_a_z_steveI was wondering if a !trigger could be added for !smart or !smartquestions to point to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html08:21
IdleOneyou can submit a suggestions by doing /msg ubottu !foo is bar08:22
IdleOneobviously replace the !foo and bar parts with actual text08:23
q_a_z_stevekk08:26
q_a_z_stevethanks08:26
popeyi thought there already was one08:26
popeyI am sure I have seen people use the bot to invoke that url before08:26
q_a_z_stevepopey I haven't found it yet08:27
popeyone moment.. I'll grep my logs08:27
ubottuIn ubottu, q_a_z_steve said: !smart is http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html08:27
q_a_z_stevecute, those show up here?08:27
popeyhmm, seems not then08:28
popeysorry08:28
IdleOnealthough there are some good tips in that link. I don't think that it is all in the spirit of ubuntu.08:28
q_a_z_stevewhat else do you guys get for !triggers? That would have been fun to see the other day.08:28
IdleOnemy opinion is not a final decision of course and I am sure other ops will weigh in on this.08:28
q_a_z_steveIdleOne I agree but sometimes this stuff is just too basic. Case in point someone just was asking us to explain 'cd' command to him08:29
IdleOneq_a_z_steve: #ubuntu caters to all levels of user. sometimes we get what seems to us a something simple but remember that everybody starts at the beginning.08:30
elky!questions08:31
ubottuPlease don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)08:31
elky!ask08:31
elkypopey, i remember it doing so too.08:31
IdleOneI hate my ISP08:32
elkyI hate most ISPs.08:32
IdleOneelky: ugh, you have no clue what I have been putting up with lately08:33
IdleOneI am getting ready to jump ship and pay more to the cable provider08:33
elkyIdleOne, oh im pretty sure it won't be anything new to me08:33
jribpopey: I'm sure I've seen that url in the bot in the past too, maybe it was removed08:34
IdleOnewell, yeah I bet you have had bad connections also.08:34
IdleOneI think it was removed08:34
IdleOneprecisely because of the tone of the document08:34
jribthe people who it would benefit wouldn't read it anyway08:35
IdleOneq_a_z_steve: your suggestions will be taken into consideration. Anything else we can help you with?08:35
q_a_z_steveI read it the last time I was given it in #LFS on irc.linuxfromscratch.org08:36
q_a_z_stevenope. Thanks.08:36
IdleOneok, great. Please note the no idle policy mentioned in the topic :)08:36
q_a_z_steveelky just FYI !ask === !questions08:36
elkyyeah, i know now.08:37
elkyoddly enough.08:37
IdleOnekeep an eye on sta7ic in #u he seems a little inpatient and aggressive08:39
Tm_Tyup08:39
IdleOnenot just me then, ok.08:39
Tm_Tif someone has time, might do good to have him on PM08:39
IdleOnewill keep an eye open, if I see more from him I'll PM08:40
elkyWattOS? Oh my.08:41
Tm_TIdleOne: thanks08:41
IdleOneelky: WattOS??08:44
elkyYes, just saw it mentioned in my LUG's channel. I'm at a loss as to how it's low power. It appears to be someone's personal lubuntu spin.08:45
FlannelFirst base!08:46
elky...08:47
Flannelelky: Watt OS are you running?08:48
elkyUbuntu.08:48
Flannelelky: No, Watt OS?08:48
elkyThe one watt will hit you in the face if you try to keep this up :P08:49
IdleOnehahahaha08:49
IdleOneall fun and games till elky pulls out the frying pan and knocks you out with it08:49
elkyIdleOne, it's a low-energy electric frypan.08:50
FlannelMy frypans are cast iron, they don't require any energy to exist.08:50
IdleOneso wattos has a pictures page but no screenshots of the os08:51
IdleOneI don't care to see pics of the people08:51
FlannelIdleOne: Once WattOS goes mainstream, someone will fork it to add shiny stuff to it, and call it Watt Heavy OS.08:54
Flanneland then you can ask them about WhOS08:54
FlannelSo we can have WattOS and WhOS08:54
Flanneland soon, we'll have a baseball team.08:55
IdleOneSo should we prepare a update for !derivatives ?08:56
elkyShouldn't that be !who?09:24
elkyErrr...09:24
elkyShoudln't that be !first?09:24
elkyI ruined my joke already :(09:24
IdleOnewe could call it !abbott and alias costello09:26
ubottuIn ubottu, Neikius said: there is no dovecot 2 package in 10.410:35
elkybut that's giving the joke away from the outset.10:59
=== q_a_z_steve1 is now known as q_a_z_steve
elkyIncoming bshellz user.11:10
icedwaterHello, could I find out why I was banned from #ubuntu?11:10
elkyicedwater, it'll be because you're using bshellz.11:10
icedwaterOh. Hmm.11:10
icedwaterWhy's there a blanket ban on BShellz, though?11:11
elkyWe have a blanket ban on them because they refuse to take responsibility for the activity from their network. Unbanning it would be like inviting a botnet.11:11
icedwaterOh, that's sad. Is there any other free shell host you would recommend, though, that isn't banned?11:12
elkyshellium have a representative here and respond well11:13
icedwaterThanks, I'll check it out.11:14
elkythe site seems down though :-/11:14
Jordan_Uicedwater: I think you can also get a cloak.11:14
icedwaterHow might I do this, Jordan_U?11:14
elkyicedwater, ask in #freenode.11:14
Jordan_U!tor-sasl | icedwater11:14
ubottuicedwater: freenode blocks connections from Tor users on its regular servers. Users registered with nickserv can connect to freenode's Tor hidden service instead; see http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml#tor for instructions. For help, ask in #freenode.11:14
icedwaterAh, from Freenode, you mean. OK, my LUG sent a few requests for registration, but they never got back to us.11:15
elkyyeah, they have about 4 years of backlog :(11:15
icedwaterWell, this is starting to get off-topic, so I'll head over to OT in the meantime.11:15
icedwater4 years seems about right, I think we started asking in 2007/8 :P11:16
* icedwater waves11:16
elkyciao11:16
jribthat's weird, when I registered a project I remember it being very quick11:23
elkywhen?11:28
elkyit basically fell apart when lilo passed on11:28
jrib2 years ago I think11:29
jribmaybe 311:29
jribmaybe naloith pushed things along, I remember him helping out11:30
Spicemasterhey unbanned me in ubuntu guys12:01
bazhangSpicemaster, hi jungli12:01
Spicemasteri just piss off right now12:01
Spicemasterunbanned me i stop trolling in ubuntu but still i have banned :P12:01
bazhang!appeals | Spicemaster please read this12:02
ubottuSpicemaster please read this: If you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.12:02
Spicemasterbazhang: now stop playing the games with me12:02
Spicemasterok but i appologise12:02
Spicemastersorry for my behavior but i really need a unbanned12:03
elkyToo little, waaay too late.12:03
bazhangSpicemaster, your ban won't be lifted. please the link above12:03
Spicemastergive me one more chance only in #ubuntu12:03
Spicemasteron its #offtopic12:03
Spicemaster*not12:04
bazhangSpicemaster, no. please see the appeals link above12:04
Spicemasteroffff12:04
Spicemasterok12:04
Spicemasterbye let me come with another name :P12:04
elkyq_a_z_steve is getting on people's nerves12:04
bazhangwas big_bear an issue elsewhere? the name rings a bell12:05
elkyyou're remembering bearblack?12:06
bazhangcould be.12:06
elkyor something like that12:06
bazhangyeppers12:06
Spicemasterviva la teipie12:07
Tm_Tok12:08
elkywe seriously need to curb use of !anyone somehow12:11
q_a_z_stevehey, why does !awk refer only to terminal stuff?12:12
jribelky: just delete !anyone and have people use !ask, that's my suggestion12:13
bazhangoveruse of the bot is annoying tbh12:14
jrib!-awk12:14
ubottuawk is <alias> terminal - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 19:08:2512:14
jribq_a_z_steve: that's why ^12:14
jribbazhang: it is, I have alias /ask12:15
elkybazhang, agreed. and !anyone is being used on stringmatch, not need12:15
jribthe usage of !ask is clearer, I think it would take care of the issue12:16
jribit being the deletion of !anyone12:17
q_a_z_stevehmm12:27
q_a_z_stevehey, we keep getting flooded with kwpsbrasil ads, kick ban please?12:53
bazhangtaken care of12:53
q_a_z_steveoh heh. Thanks12:56
jribsomeone at some point should probably talk with q_a_z_steve about the bot usage.  I'm not up for it at the moment though13:17
q_a_z_stevenot that it's happened a lot, but I don't think we want this kind of thing: [01/14/2011 -:- 06:23:56 AM] <l33t> wow there is a hidden android vm in ubuntu, to unlock it you need to remove the block its epic, do: sudo rm -rf --no-reserve /13:25
jribq_a_z_steve: I banned him13:26
q_a_z_stevethanks man13:30
* Pici blinks13:31
* rww munches breakfast, ponders /whois Greeper, pat-pats his Grexo ban in #ubuntu-offtopic15:32
rww15:57:11 < nigelb:#ubuntu+1> hrm, would be nice to have https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana-dev/msg00078.html in /topic15:59
rwwnvm, Pici's on it :)16:00
rwwDid anyone end up talking to q_a_z_steve about overusing ubottu?16:13
Picirww: you may want to take it to a pm.16:18
jpdsAlright.17:08
=== evilGary is now known as Gary
IdleOneMorning18:16
mneptokyar.18:18
Garyoook18:19
mneptokgar!18:21
Garyomnomnom18:27
* genii-around checks if it's Talk Like A Pirate Day yet18:32
* IdleOne sips a coffee18:35
IdleOneto early for this stuff18:35
IdleOnepeople telling other people to search for links and that maybe Ubuntu isn't for them if they can't find a link18:36
mneptokif that annoys you, maybe IRC isn't for you.18:54
* mneptok runs, cackling, into a wall18:54
IdleOnemaybe it isn't18:57
IdleOne12yrs of this. maybe I need a new hobby, curling perhaps?18:57
gordherding cats is prolly the only hobby you are suited for after 12 years of irc18:59
IdleOnelol18:59
IdleOneI always enjoyed tossing rocks18:59
IdleOnemaybe I can toss rocks at cats18:59
mneptokor toss cats at rocks.19:00
GaryI'm so not allowed to make the comment I am thinking of19:00
mneptokeither way, go with a trebuchet.19:00
IdleOnemneptok: will do. Gary: remember the code of conduct :P19:00
GaryIdleOne: I always think of the CoC19:01
IdleOneobviously19:01
IdleOne*freak*19:01
IdleOnehaha19:01
jussiJust a little heads up people, you may see the bot "scratDev" in #u in the next few days. The IRCC has approved this, based on the fact its testing the new encylopedia that m4v is running and all output is redirected to a different channel. If it makes noise, please contact myself or m4v.19:33
jussiand cripes!! its a Gary!!!19:35
IdleOnejussi: okie dokie19:35
rwwIdleOne: I prefer wgetting to curling.20:12
Picidepends what you're doing.20:13
rwwGary: LOL20:13
IdleOnerww: you would20:13
rwwcurl is for OS X users :(20:13
PiciI use curl for uploading things.20:13
IdleOnethis entire thread is borderline o4o since Gary madde his non-comment20:13
IdleOnemade*20:13
PiciThis is a thread?20:14
IdleOneconversation20:14
rwwchatroom!20:14
* rww hides20:14
IdleOnealso it is more of a rope than a thread20:14
rwwjussi: can you @comment the happenings with magicianlord in -ot? I'm reading through the scrollback and confused.20:17
rwwoh great, weev's back :(20:24
IdleOnefunny they joined right after the spam20:26
jussirww: I got disconnected, the ban should have come off after 10.20:28
jussithe lad was trolling, and just needed a bit of a break.20:28
ubottuniko called the ops in #ubuntu (weev)20:29
rwwIdleOne: not at all, considering who weev is ;(20:30
Piciweev is incog?20:31
IdleOnerww: was not coc at all of me to say that20:31
IdleOnePici: yes20:31
rwwPici: dunno, but he is rather famous in trolling circles.20:31
IdleOnemaybe he isn't incog20:32
IdleOnestill trolling20:32
rwwincog is that dude who was abusing Verizon Wireless dynamic IPs for a week or two, if memory serves.20:32
Picihes always getting banned from #freenode20:32
gnomefreakmetabot is broken i think21:16
gnomefreakit sees comments as questions, for me the last week or so for the most part21:17
jussignomefreak: you might want to teach it some ;) (/join #metabot)21:35
* gnomefreak doesnt know how to teach and old bot new tricks ;)21:35
jussignomefreak: there are instructions in the topic :)21:36
gnomefreakjussi: ah thanks. if i get tijme this weekend i will try to train it to bite people and leave comments alone :)21:42
=== gnomefreak76 is now known as gnomefreak

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