[00:12] <cyberanger> hard to say which
[00:12] <cyberanger> maybe both
[00:12]  * cyberanger just finished watching the social network
[03:33] <wrst> how was it cyberanger?
[03:41] <cyberanger> well, it was intresting
[03:42] <cyberanger> I liked the fact they metioned linux tools in reasonable ways
[03:42] <cyberanger> and kept it to linux too
[03:43] <cyberanger> not to metion the inner bits that was intresting, metioning the race in london, watched live on facebook
[03:44] <wrst> cool cyberanger, well off to bed i go see you tomorrow!
[03:46] <cyberanger> wrst: see ya
[04:19] <exodus_ms> What ever happened to binarymutant?
[04:19] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: hard to say
[04:20] <cyberanger> similar to you I suppose
[04:20] <cyberanger> circumstances got in the way
[04:20] <exodus_ms> The last I was on here regularly was prolly a year ago
[04:20] <exodus_ms> Ah, gotcha
[04:20] <cyberanger> your case you came back, his case idk
[04:21] <exodus_ms> Yeah, I had to take a break. Put my focus on other things
[04:21] <cyberanger> yeah, he had some issues between him and his ISP (and I could assume his wallet same as my own for awhile, mainly feb to july)
[04:22] <jfenn2199> Evening all
[04:22] <cyberanger> I meant like I did feb to july
[04:22] <cyberanger> hey jfenn2199
[04:22] <exodus_ms> Evening jfenn2199
[04:23] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: I was on most nights, hung out at hotspots and such, the word addicted comes to mind, all three of us had bigger fish to fry
[04:23] <exodus_ms> I still don't have internet at home. Using my phone atm
[04:23] <cyberanger> and another word comes to mind, stubborn, I was too stubborn to let lack of a good connection stop me
[04:23] <jfenn2199> How goes cyberanger and exodus_ms (long time no see)
[04:23] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: can't blame you, I'd do the same here, and probally will again
[04:24] <cyberanger> jfenn2199: reasonable
[04:24] <cyberanger> messing with tor
[04:24] <exodus_ms> Pretty good. At work still, bout 30 more mins to go :)
[04:24] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: I thought you couldn't use it at work
[04:24] <cyberanger> work still is out at arnold right?
[04:25] <jfenn2199> Sounds good I've been out for 5 hours if you don't count the public transit commute
[04:25] <exodus_ms> Using my phone
[04:26] <exodus_ms> cyberanger I still work at AEDC, using my phone to chat
[04:26] <cyberanger> jfenn2199: I would
[04:26] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: suprised they let you
[04:27] <cyberanger> guess you've got some weaker policies than others I know
[04:28] <cyberanger> fear of a roving bug threats I guess
[04:28] <jfenn2199> At my work we're not supposed to be on our phones but since I got all but one person to get an Android phone even my manager is always on his
[04:28] <cyberanger> lol
[04:29] <jfenn2199> It was funny after I got mine every 3 months someone else was getting one
[04:29] <jfenn2199> I'm about to upgrade to an Epic
[04:29] <cyberanger> I'm gonna just upgrade the software of mine for now
[04:29] <cyberanger> gingerbread
[04:30] <cyberanger> I still want to get a Nokia N900
[04:30] <jfenn2199> Well the moment I don't think will handle froyo and sprint let's me get a new one every year so why not
[04:30] <jfenn2199> Symbian?
[04:31] <jfenn2199> (Sorry don't feel like going to google)
[04:31] <cyberanger> no, was Maemo
[04:31] <jfenn2199> Ok
[04:31] <cyberanger> well, I guess still is, but I can dev it for Meego
[04:31] <cyberanger> or stick froyo on it too
[04:32] <jfenn2199> That's nice
[04:33] <jfenn2199> I'm just stuck to Samsung after the Moment this phone has been super durable
[04:34] <jfenn2199> I've litterally dropped it so hard that the battery cover flies off and I just pick it up put the cover on and go right back to what I was doing
[04:38] <cyberanger> the HTC Desire Z is that sturdy
[04:40] <jfenn2199> Yeah I don't like SenseUI though
[04:43] <cyberanger> oh, well, that's nice it's all software
[04:43] <cyberanger> here it's branded as the T-Mobile G2, pretty much stock
[04:43] <cyberanger> and that's really what I have (I just prefer it's htc name)
[04:44] <cyberanger> and I don't use the stock build
[04:44] <cyberanger> I use a root and dev cyogenmod build
[05:08] <jfenn2199> Sorry phone died
[05:32] <jfenn2199> Wb exodus_ms
[05:32] <exodus_ms> thanks jfenn2199
[05:33] <exodus_ms> a little easier on my computer to chat
[05:33] <jfenn2199> Haha I hear that
[05:33] <jfenn2199> It's still another month till I have access back at the house
[05:34] <exodus_ms> right now im tethered to my phone, got about a .5s lag
[05:34] <jfenn2199> Yeah I need to root this one
[05:35] <exodus_ms> i didnt need to root my phone to tether
[05:35] <jfenn2199> Newer one with an extra bill or....?
[05:35] <exodus_ms> not sure what ya mean?
[05:36] <exodus_ms> using an app called easyThether.
[05:36] <jfenn2199> Ok that's what I was wondering
[05:37] <exodus_ms> everything goes thru my data plan (unlimited)
[05:37] <jfenn2199> Is it available on 2.1?
[05:38] <exodus_ms> http://www.mobile-stream.com/easytether/android.html
[05:38] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: cool they let you hang onto your phone at ADEC
[05:38] <cyberanger> some guys in similar places, they can't
[05:39] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, yeah, but there are places I cant take it.
[05:39] <cyberanger> I'd assume a roving bug fear, podslurping and so on
[05:39] <cyberanger> ah, per area
[05:39] <exodus_ms> you have to drop it off before you enter
[05:40] <cyberanger> for those places I just use a nokia 2320, dumb can't do anything device
[05:40] <cyberanger> out of concern of something happening to my smartphone
[05:40] <exodus_ms> brb, my pup needs to go outside...
[05:42] <jfenn2199> Ugh since I don't have a usb cabel I'll have to wait until I'm at a hotspot to use it :-/
[05:43] <jfenn2199> *cable
[05:47] <exodus_ms> jfenn2199, im confused
[05:50] <exodus_ms> if you had a hotspot to use, you wouldnt need your phone to tether to?
[05:50] <jfenn2199> Oh it says I need to install something on the computer I could dl it to the phone and transfer it to the machine but I've lost my usb cable so I can't transfer it
[05:50] <exodus_ms> ah, gotcha. yes, there is a deb pkg you need to dl
[05:52] <exodus_ms> yeah, and you would need the cable anyway to tether
[05:52] <jfenn2199> Ahhhh
[05:52] <jfenn2199> So no ad_hoc
[05:53] <exodus_ms> i know nothing about networking, i just connect and use :)
[05:53] <exodus_ms> sorry
[05:54] <jfenn2199> It's cool
[05:54] <exodus_ms> but why would you need ad_hoc if you have bluetooth? or am i totally off
[05:57] <exodus_ms> or is ad_hoc and bluetooth the same thing?
[05:57] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, what smartphone are you using?
[05:58] <jfenn2199> I may be using the wrong terminology but wifi to wifi
[05:59] <cyberanger> I have a T-Mobile G2
[05:59] <exodus_ms> sorry you guys, i got a serious lag over here
[06:00] <cyberanger> want to also grab a Nokia N900
[06:00] <exodus_ms> i keep dropping off the 3g to 1x...
[06:00] <cyberanger> as for ad-hoc wifi, there are some advanages
[06:00] <cyberanger> same with bluetooth
[06:01] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: it's fine, I remember using 20kbps link
[06:01] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, whats the cl chat program?
[06:01] <exodus_ms> I cant remember
[06:02] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: there are some things that can be done to lessen the bandwidth pain too
[06:02] <cyberanger> command line chat program for irc?
[06:02] <cyberanger> irssi, weechat, common two
[06:02] <exodus_ms> irssi, thats it, thanks
[06:03] <exodus_ms> do you think it would run any faster (bandwidth) than xchat?
[06:03] <cyberanger> for im, finch (or use bitlbee which is an im to irc gateway, and use another)
[06:03] <exodus_ms> na, I just want irc
[06:04] <cyberanger> bandwidth alone, no, but it can help indirectly
[06:05] <exodus_ms> what can I do about the bandwidth?
[06:05] <exodus_ms> using xchat
[06:05] <cyberanger> which was kinda weird, I saw programs lighter on cpu and ram actually speed up when bandwidth was the issue
[06:06] <cyberanger> even when bandwidth didn't change
[06:06] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, just curious. where are you seeing me connecting from?
[06:08] <cyberanger> the main thing I did was setup a local dns server and squid proxy, which ensured that as much traffic wasn't requested twice
[06:08] <cyberanger> view the same image on facebook, request the same ubuntu package, no point downloading it twice
[06:08] <cyberanger> sorry I've got lag here too, tor expirement
[06:08] <exodus_ms> ah man, see there, you get all crazy. I dont have internet dude!
[06:09] <cyberanger> 68.sub-174-252-154.myvzw.com
[06:09] <exodus_ms> if I had internet coming into my apt i could do something like that maybe
[06:09] <cyberanger> that's not crazy,or at least not crazy dependant on internet
[06:10] <exodus_ms> i was just curious, for some reason i get routed thru north carolina at times
[06:10] <cyberanger> ah, that's understandable with verizon's setups
[06:11] <exodus_ms> i was just under the impression that irc was light on bandwidth. just text being transfered back and forth
[06:11] <cyberanger> the above I metioned, was due how I operated
[06:11] <cyberanger> worse than you, 20kbps iden
[06:11] <cyberanger> and it really helped
[06:12] <exodus_ms> cool
[06:12] <cyberanger> irc is light, but also real time
[06:12] <cyberanger> 1987 there wasn't alot around
[06:12] <cyberanger> same in the 92 august coup or the 1992 gulf war
[06:12] <cyberanger> irc's biggest days
[06:13] <exodus_ms> ok, irc is light but real time.... thats what im saying, were using something that was good for dial up, so why cant i get decent speed thru 3g?
[06:13] <cyberanger> but due to everyone having better links now, it shows more defined
[06:13] <cyberanger> high latency, no low bandwidth
[06:13] <cyberanger> that's the issue
[06:14] <exodus_ms> ok
[06:14] <cyberanger> satellite internet is the same, high bandwidth, but higher latency
[06:14] <cyberanger> and thus your great on bandwidth compared to dial-up, but dial up had lower latency
[06:15] <exodus_ms> ah
[06:15] <exodus_ms> i see said the blind man
[06:15] <cyberanger> since each msg is a packet, latency is it's travel time
[06:16] <cyberanger> bandwidth is the size of the packet or packet stream
[06:16] <cyberanger> streaming music on pandora can be cached, buffered, nobody notices the latency
[06:16] <exodus_ms> so, if there were more folks in this discussion, i would see greater latency?
[06:17] <chris4585> exodus_ms, I get a latency of 15 seconds sometimes on IRC but I don't really notice the lag with few people in a conversation
[06:17] <cyberanger> hard to say, if your truely on 3g there, not dropping below to 2.5g or older
[06:17] <cyberanger> you shouldn't
[06:17] <cyberanger> chris4585: is on hughesnet, he also understands it
[06:17] <chris4585> my lag right now is 1.3 seconds right now, thats only twice as large as cell phones really
[06:17] <exodus_ms> im showing 3g with all bars :)
[06:18] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: I think it'd be the same, until the channel size really jumps
[06:18] <chris4585> things usually just take longer to start, egg youtube, but once started its all good
[06:18] <cyberanger> it's a per packet phenomenon
[06:18] <cyberanger> more chatter, more packets
[06:19] <cyberanger> and the way celluar routes, the more tricks
[06:19] <exodus_ms> chris4585, i see that in pandora like cyberanger mentioned, it kicked me off the other day for not having a fast enough connection :/
[06:19] <chris4585> yeah it sucks
[06:19] <chris4585> hughesnet has really good speeds after hours though
[06:20] <chris4585> or if its a really clear sky
[06:20] <cyberanger> what I was metioning in pandora, was more of how it doesn't break up due to a few packets lost
[06:20] <cyberanger> but miss enough it'll suffer
[06:20] <exodus_ms> someone around my apt has wifi called "virusplace" its unprotected, great signal but Im not so sure i should connect to it ;)
[06:20] <cyberanger> but latency isn't the issue
[06:21] <cyberanger> awesome psyop ssid
[06:21] <exodus_ms> but why leave it passwd unprotected?
[06:22] <cyberanger> I'd love to help you both optimize your connections, something I've gotten great at here
[06:22] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, you need to invest in small towers and put them in strategic places around tn
[06:22] <chris4585> exodus_ms, to allow people to connect to it? lol
[06:22] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: becuase he can, he's effectively scared you off, there is no further incentive to him to keep you off
[06:22] <cyberanger> thus why I said psyop
[06:23] <chris4585> cyberanger, that too
[06:23] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: as for small towers, I'm looking at tech that is like that
[06:23] <exodus_ms> well, im going to connect to it and dl a bunch of horse porn on his puter, and show him :p
[06:23] <cyberanger> and celluar tech, satellite too
[06:24]  * cyberanger has seriously been looking at starting an isp for small towns in highly rual areas, and learned alot of low bandwidth tricks in the process
[06:25] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, the last time we talked seriously you were working on that. i think its great bro
[06:25] <cyberanger> hehe, forgot you were here for that
[06:26] <exodus_ms> there is def a need for something like that. but its way over my head. i understand the concept but thats about it
[06:26] <cyberanger> you've been gone so long, hard to remember something ongoing for the past 7 months, if I recall
[06:27] <exodus_ms> yeah, about that time. it was around this time last year i started falling back
[06:28] <exodus_ms> i literally "unplugged" for awhile.
[06:28] <cyberanger> yeah, concept is one thing, the technical methods another, insuring the customer has no need to know how it works
[06:29] <cyberanger> that's the goal
[06:29] <cyberanger> however, if they ask, I would answer
[06:29] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: well, idk if that was a year ago, I don't recall starting an isp then, or starting my router project
[06:30] <exodus_ms> do you have an outline, proposal or plan on paper you could present to anyone?
[06:30] <cyberanger> however my networking knowlege has been there, so I might have considered it as an idea to toy with longer than I recall
[06:30] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, maybe not, but I do recall talking with you about a need for it. at the time you were traveling a bit
[06:30] <cyberanger> not atm, right now I just do it q&a
[06:31] <cyberanger> maybe you were around in june a little, in the middle of things
[06:31] <cyberanger> and I've used xmpp to chat with you too (your end was probally facebook)
[06:31] <exodus_ms> idk, i think the last time i was on here consistently was the earlier part of last year
[06:32] <cyberanger> so who knows
[06:32] <exodus_ms> at any rate, its good to be back chatting with old friends :)
[06:32] <cyberanger> indeed
[06:33] <exodus_ms> ive been so out-of-the loop. slowly getting back into it
[06:33] <cyberanger> and now that I think a little, you were around a year ago, I recall the motlaw game, same day as your christmas day parade, and you had a night shift
[06:34] <cyberanger> went to the game, root the away team, that was dec.
[06:34] <cyberanger> and I had a trip later on, into tullahoma, febuary, you were still around
[06:34] <cyberanger> but in nashville then (forget the reason)
[06:34] <cyberanger> one hell of a year for both of us
[06:35] <exodus_ms> yeah, i think i remember that. February was when i moved out
[06:35] <exodus_ms> indeed
[06:36] <exodus_ms> i just had a lot going on. I had to unplug bro. I felt a need to purge alot of things. I didnt mean to be rude to anyone
[06:36] <cyberanger> I think everyone understands
[06:36] <exodus_ms> cool
[06:36] <cyberanger> I know I do
[06:37] <exodus_ms> right on, thanks bro
[06:38] <cyberanger> wrst and I saw the departing the team launchpad email, he wondered at that time, but you had already filled some of us on the mess
[06:39] <cyberanger> and he understood, those that know bits of your nightmare really do understand that kind of stand back and think mentality you took
[06:39] <cyberanger> and I do mean that offer on tethering tweaks to help
[06:40] <cyberanger> or in chris4585's case, slightly different reason, pretty much the same tweaks
[06:40] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: it wouldn't take much to use your smartphone as a modem, and your ubuntu machine as a router
[06:42] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, the thing is, right now the setup allows incoming txt msg, calls etc to still come thru when im tethered
[06:42] <exodus_ms> granted, it usually disrupts my connection to my laptop and i have to "reconnect" when that happens
[06:43] <exodus_ms> im curious if i used my phone as a modem if i could also receive calls, txt msgs etc at the same time
[06:44]  * cyberanger remembers taking an asus eee pc with two wifi cards, connecting one to mcdonalds wifi, having the other act as an access point, and was on for 4 hours (with their stuff set to try and kick off every two hours, it was fun proving how weak that setup was)
[06:45] <cyberanger> if your tethering now fine, then yes
[06:45]  * exodus_ms just needs stuff to work... is thankful he can chat at the moment
[06:46] <cyberanger> the one bit needed is the routing bit, that's not the phone, that's the computer next to it
[06:46] <exodus_ms> what is the benefit to your proposal?
[06:46] <cyberanger> and linux kernels really excel there
[06:46] <exodus_ms> smartphone (modem) *buntu machine (router)?
[06:47] <cyberanger> pretty much
[06:47] <exodus_ms> thats what im asking, what is the benefit to that?
[06:48] <cyberanger> depends on how your setup for what I'm proposing exactly, but as for the smartphone and linux machine combo
[06:48] <cyberanger> just a way to share it's internet connection
[06:49] <cyberanger> if you have more than one machine
[06:49] <cyberanger> as for the squid proxy (one other idea) has the additional benifit of conserving bandwidth
[06:50] <cyberanger> if you head to facebook once via squid proxy, and open it later, squid has most of the images already
[06:50] <cyberanger> so you only download what squid doesn't have
[06:50] <exodus_ms> where is it stored? the cache that is?
[06:51] <cyberanger> on the ubuntu machine
[06:51] <cyberanger> that it's installed to
[06:52] <cyberanger> so if you have a desktop, and two laptops, and install squid on the desktop, then the cache is on the desktop
[06:52] <exodus_ms> but cant you setup your browser to do that already?
[06:52] <cyberanger> setup your browser to cache images?
[06:53] <exodus_ms> yes, and everything else.
[06:53] <cyberanger> depends on the browser, and most modern ones that'd be a yes
[06:53] <cyberanger> but not everything else (such as deb packages)
[06:53] <cyberanger> and text
[06:54] <cyberanger> and think of squid as a way to share caches too
[06:54] <cyberanger> as if you own 3 machines, they don't have the same cache, necessarlly
[06:54] <exodus_ms> but if you visit somewhere you have never visited before, its irrelevant right?
[06:54] <cyberanger> well, not entirely, but for the most part yes
[06:55] <cyberanger> after all, a different site might have the same image, or embedded content
[06:55] <cyberanger> like google analytics scripts
[06:56] <exodus_ms> maybe i could create a bot that scanned the internet at regular intervals and stored the relevent info on a personal server that could be used to share that cache
[06:56] <cyberanger> the idea is reduction, you'll never hit zero
[06:57] <cyberanger> but on a scale of 0-3 (say, 3 machines) if all machines get ubuntu updates, and visit facebook each day, it would be 3, but with squid, shrink to 1 or less
[06:57] <cyberanger> but not 0
[06:57] <exodus_ms> but, the larger the cache the more time it takes to search thru the archives etc etc, kinda defeats the purpose
[06:58] <cyberanger> I've had extremely large caches, and it'll purge when something is timestale
[06:58] <cyberanger> no isp can rival the speed of your lan
[06:59] <exodus_ms> i understand how it can be useful for redundancy i.e frequently visited sites etc. but what about the not so frequent?
[06:59] <cyberanger> in this case, verizon wireless is the isp, and any speed lost is minor, and gained by the fact your not needing celluar to fetch it
[07:00]  * exodus_ms misses being able to chat a scour the web at the same time...
[07:00] <cyberanger> you'd be suprised how consistant ones web browsing habits are
[07:00] <cyberanger> and not so frequent won't be too big an issue still
[07:01] <exodus_ms> social engineering def plays into effect here, but there are times i break out of habbits, just because ya know ;)
[07:01] <cyberanger> if your connection is slow, this won't slow it down needlessly
[07:02] <exodus_ms> ok, im going to open up chromim, lets see what happens
[07:02] <cyberanger> bandwidth is allways the weakest link
[07:02] <exodus_ms> *chromium
[07:02] <cyberanger> any slow down is milliseconds
[07:03] <exodus_ms> im going to clear the cache as well
[07:03] <cyberanger> and recouped by a single item added or pulled from the cache
[07:04] <exodus_ms> lag = .7s
[07:05] <cyberanger> but is that one computer? and your only one?
[07:05] <exodus_ms> so, looking at the meter i can almost anticipate when a msg will arrive here in xchat, kinda cool
[07:06] <exodus_ms> yes
[07:06] <cyberanger> and only browser?
[07:07] <cyberanger> no firefox
[07:07] <exodus_ms> no ff
[07:08] <exodus_ms> wait, ff is installed but not running. is that what you were asking?
[07:08] <exodus_ms> if it was installed
[07:08] <cyberanger> well, more your usage
[07:08] <cyberanger> you could get away with just xchat and chromium
[07:08] <cyberanger> for a month
[07:12] <cyberanger> reason I'm asking is to define normal usage
[07:12] <cyberanger> to compare to vz's expectations and plus areas to optimize
[07:13] <cyberanger> dns, http, irc
[07:13] <exodus_ms> thats about it ^
[07:14] <cyberanger> maybe also ntp, but for a laptop, there can be another way to deal with that, or ignore it
[07:14] <exodus_ms> if i had a regular dedicated line for my apt, it would be different
[07:14] <cyberanger> but you don't need one
[07:14] <exodus_ms> ntp? what for?
[07:14] <cyberanger> however, what would you change
[07:15] <cyberanger> ntp, network time protocall, something I expect is going on in the backround
[07:15] <cyberanger> it's traffic, gotta count it
[07:15] <exodus_ms> yeah, thats why i was asking why i would us/need it?
[07:15] <exodus_ms> *use
[07:16] <cyberanger> well, you probally already are, and it's a give away that you are tethering
[07:16] <cyberanger> since the phone doesn't use ntp via vz's data network
[07:16] <chris4585> speedtest before 2am http://www.speedtest.net/result/1110696045.png
[07:16] <cyberanger> the celluar base station sends it the time
[07:16] <chris4585> speedtest after 2am http://www.speedtest.net/result/1110709125.png
[07:17] <cyberanger> chris4585: no fap throttling for it
[07:18] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: as for why it's used, more accurate than the interal clock
[07:18] <chris4585> oh god if I was under fap it would be awful, the test would take 20mins to complete
[07:18] <cyberanger> the internal clock drifts alot
[07:18] <cyberanger> chris4585: not to metion the speed couldn't be that high, they drop to 56k or less
[07:19] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: I'm looking at it as if I was hughesnet, verizon, charter, whoever
[07:19] <cyberanger> looking at all usage
[07:19] <cyberanger> and that's important if your tethering
[07:21] <exodus_ms> is it a bad thing that you know im tethering? you mentioned it was a give away that i was
[07:22] <cyberanger> the nice thing about android, one can explain away some of the signs, such as using a different dns server (I use opennic, and one of my websites is www.zachgibbens.geek, a opennic only site)
[07:22] <cyberanger> but if they have a policy against excessive data and tethering, it's a bit worse
[07:22] <cyberanger> they often turn a blind eye, to a point
[07:23] <cyberanger> ntp traffic is a sign I'd look for that screams tethering
[07:23] <exodus_ms> gotcha
[07:23] <cyberanger> but if my traffic stays low (and your case it will, if that's all your doing) it's pointless to cry foul
[07:25] <cyberanger> it used to be that ssh traffic was a give away, but not anymore, using a different dns server was (that one can be explained too, but that's not as clear cut)
[07:25] <cyberanger> it's gotten to the point where the amount of traffic is the only thing that pisses them off
[07:26] <exodus_ms> why do they care? man, it pisses me off.
[07:26] <cyberanger> much to my disappointment (it's no fun tricking a blind guy into looking for gullibule on the celing)
[07:27] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: are they charging you an arm and a leg?
[07:27] <exodus_ms> it would be different if i were downloading a ton of crap and eating up bandwidth, but they want to nickle and dime every freaking packet
[07:27] <cyberanger> they want both legs
[07:27] <cyberanger> greed
[07:27] <cyberanger> well, they've moved away from nickel and diming like they did
[07:28] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, not at the moment, i have an unlimited data package, one flat monthly rate
[07:28] <cyberanger> tethering is a sign of high usage, in theroy
[07:29] <cyberanger> and what they care about is when one guy tests the defination of unlimited
[07:30] <exodus_ms> im not trying to test anyone, i just want access to what should be a no-cost venture in the first place
[07:30] <cyberanger> on virgin mobile I did just that (knowing I paid cash and they had no data on me, thus the worst thing they could do is kill service and I'd just act like a new customer)
[07:30] <cyberanger> grabbed 10g in under 48 hours
[07:31] <cyberanger> when at the time 5gb was the cap for contract services with everyone but t-mobile
[07:31] <cyberanger> t-mo had a soft cap of 10g and then throttle
[07:32] <exodus_ms> www.zachgibbens.geek <-- not site?
[07:32] <cyberanger> I did that becuase their policy had no fine print (at the time, I got an email today saying they're gonna soft cap at 5gb and then throttle)
[07:32] <cyberanger> (starting feb 15th I think)
[07:33] <cyberanger> your not testing them, or being a heavy user, your fine
[07:34] <cyberanger> they'll see markers like ntp, but ignore them, insignificant amount
[07:34] <cyberanger> it's an opennic domain, http://www.opennicproject.org
[07:34] <cyberanger> if using opennic it'd resolve to 109.74.196.32
[07:35] <cyberanger> my holy grail server of servers ;-)
[07:36] <cyberanger> .com .org .edu ICANN domains
[07:37] <exodus_ms> cool, hey bro im gonna call it a night. nice catching up with you. like always i learned alot ;)
[07:37] <cyberanger> OpenNIC want's an independant and democratic system, due to misdeeds in the current system, such as ICE seizing numerous .com's and such
[07:37] <cyberanger> exodus_ms: understand, nearly 2am there
[07:38] <cyberanger> enjoy the night, see you another one
[07:38] <exodus_ms> cyberanger, yes indeed
[13:32] <wrst> hey linuxman410
[13:32] <linuxman410> hey wrst
[13:32] <wrst> how are things going linuxman410?
[13:33] <linuxman410> going ok got my new phone yesterday
[13:34] <linuxman410> got my laptop too it would not run ubuntu 10.10 but it run xubuntu 10.10 does not make sense
[13:36] <wrst> weird linuxman410, just wouldn't start?
[13:40] <linuxman410> no it just sit there at the ubuntu screen i thought about trying mint on it
[13:42] <wrst> hmm weird, did you try an alternate install cd?
[13:42] <wrst> or did it install ? and wouldn't boot afterwards?
[13:42] <linuxman410> no i guess i can download that and try it
[13:43] <linuxman410> no it would not install from regular download media
[13:43] <wrst> lots of times that will take care of those problems or if you want the regular gnome you could just install ubuntu-desktop
[13:52] <linuxman410> wrst i tried sudo apt-get install ubuntu desktop and it said not found
[13:52] <wrst> linuxman410: shoudl be ubuntu-desktop gotta have the -
[13:53] <linuxman410> gotta it was not paying attention still early
[13:53] <wrst> i know the feeling linuxman410 :)
[13:53] <wrst> i had kubuntu installed and did that last night... wow kubuntu still pretty much stinks for me
[13:54] <linuxman410> i have always used ubuntu not xubuntu
[13:54] <wrst> i don't really get xubuntu
[13:55] <linuxman410> me either
[13:56] <wrst> yeah just i don't know just kinda strange to me
[13:56] <linuxman410> finally got natty live cd to boot but it kept crashing
[13:57] <wrst> weird
[14:13] <Xpistos> morning all
[14:13] <Xpistos> wrst
[14:15] <wrst> morning Xpistos
[14:15] <linuxman410> wrst refresh my memory how do i remove xfce-desktop
[14:15] <cyberanger> morning everyone
[14:16] <wrst> linuxman410: should be apt-get remove xfce-desktop or to remove all the config files apt-get purge
[14:16] <wrst> but i'm not positive if that will remove everything xfce
[14:16] <cyberanger> linuxman410: very carefully
[14:16] <cyberanger> and it won't
[14:17] <cyberanger> if any tool is dependant on it
[14:17] <wrst> cyberanger: i see something suggesting apt-get autoremove
[14:18] <cyberanger> ther dependancy settings are sweet for installing metapackages, not so much otherwise
[14:18] <cyberanger> autoremove is fine
[14:18] <cyberanger> just removes what isn't used
[14:19] <cyberanger> Xpistos: you should have an email later today with code you seeked
[14:19] <cyberanger> just gotta get at my machine first
[14:19] <Xpistos> cyberanger: thanks bro
[14:20] <linuxman410> wrst i tried sudo apt-get remove xfce-desktop and it says unable to locate
[14:20] <cyberanger> linuxman410: metapackage, gotta remove it's dependices
[14:20] <wrst> linuxman410: its actually xubuntu-desktop is the metapackage name
[14:21] <cyberanger> oh, that'd also help
[14:24] <linuxman410> ok i have remove xubuntu-desktop and now have ubuntu-desktop with a xubuntu splash screen and login window
[14:24] <wrst> linuxman410: i found a command
[14:24] <wrst> sudo apt-get remove a2ps abiword abiword-common abiword-plugin-grammar abiword-plugin-mathview aumix aumix-common browser-plugin-parole catfish elementary-icon-theme exaile exo-utils fortune-mod fortunes-min gdebi gdebi-core gigolo gimp gimp-data gnumeric gnumeric-common gnumeric-doc gtk2-engines-xfce gvfs-bin hal hal-info imagemagick libabiword-2.8 libaiksaurus-1.2-0c2a libaiksaurus-1.2-data libaiksaurusgtk-1.2-0c2a libbabl-0.0-0 libcdt4 libexo-0.3
[14:24] <wrst> -0 libexo-common libgdome2-0 libgdome2-cpp-smart0c2a libgegl-0.0-0 libgimp2.0 libgoffice-0.8-8 libgoffice-0.8-8-common libgraph4 libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libgtkmathview0c2a libgvc5 libhal-storage1 libhal1 libilmbase6 libjpeg-progs libjpeg8 liblink-grammar4 libloudmouth1-0 libmagickcore3-extra libmng1 libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 libotr2 libots0 libpathplan4 libpsiconv6 librecode0 libsexy2 libtagc0 libthunar-vfs-1-2 libwv-1.2-3 libxcb-keysyms1 libxdot4
[14:24] <wrst>  libxfce4menu-0.1-0 libxfce4util-bin libxfce4util-common libxfce4util4 libxfcegui4-4 libxfconf-0-2 link-grammar-dictionaries-en mousepad murrine-themes netpbm orage oss-compat parole pidgin pidgin-data pidgin-libnotify pidgin-otr plymouth-theme-xubuntu-logo psutils python-cddb python-mmkeys python-mutagen ristretto smartdimmer tango-icon-theme tango-icon-theme-common thunar thunar-archive-plugin thunar-data thunar-media-tags-plugin thunar
[14:24] <wrst> -thumbnailers thunar-volman thunderbird ttf-lyx wdiff xchat xchat-common xfburn xfce-keyboard-shortcuts xfce4-appfinder xfce4-clipman xfce4-clipman-plugin xfce4-cpugraph-plugin xfce4-dict xfce4-fsguard-plugin xfce4-mailwatch-plugin xfce4-mixer xfce4-mount-plugin xfce4-netload-plugin xfce4-notes xfce4-notes-plugin xfce4-panel xfce4-places-plugin xfce4-power-manager xfce4-power-manager-data xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin xfce4-screenshooter xfce4-session
[14:24] <wrst>  xfce4-settings xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin xfce4-systemload-plugin xfce4-taskmanager xfce4-terminal xfce4-utils xfce4-verve-plugin xfce4-volumed xfce4-weather-plugin xfce4-xkb-plugin xfconf xfdesktop4 xfdesktop4-data xfprint4 xfswitch-plugin xfwm4 xfwm4-themes xscreensaver xubuntu-artwork xubuntu-default-settings xubuntu-desktop xubuntu-docs xubuntu-gdm-theme xubuntu-icon-theme xubuntu-wallpapers
[14:24] <wrst> wow sorry
[14:24] <wrst> didn't know it was that large of a command :\
[14:25] <wrst> linuxman410: from here http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/puregnome
[14:26] <wrst> hmm well hate he left after i flooded with that command :\
[14:29] <linuxman410> wrst when i type that lin in it says not found
[14:30] <wrst> hmm not for sure
[14:31] <wrst> linuxman410: that has worked for me before from that site
[14:31] <wrst> but who knows what could be updated etc etc and not match up with all of that
[14:38] <linuxman410> wow that just messed up whole installation so i will re install with alternative cd
[14:46] <wrst> :\
[17:25] <starspot> howdy
[17:26] <starspot> I can't get x to load after uninstalling the proprietary radeon drivers :-(
[17:26] <starspot> what do I do with the boot CD to remedy this?
[18:01] <wrst> hey exodus_ms
[18:01] <exodus_ms> hey wrst
[18:01] <wrst> starspot: you want to reinstall the radeon drivers?
[18:01] <wrst> exodus_ms: long time no see great to see you around!
[18:02] <exodus_ms> thanks wrst you too
[19:30] <chris4585> wrst, I thought you would like to see this http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/unity-2d-qt-now-available-in-ppa-for.html
[19:33] <wrst> that is interesting chris4585, i may have to give that a try
[19:33] <chris4585> yeah the only funny thing is its using qt, but whatever if it works
[19:34] <wrst> yeah what's up with that?
[19:34] <chris4585> apparently mark is gay for qt
[19:35] <chris4585> there are other articles about the news, that was just about it getting a ppa
[19:36] <wrst> well if he is so gay for qt (love that term) why do they not use kde?
[19:36] <chris4585> I'm not really sure, I just got that from the comments on another post lol
[19:43] <wrst> kde is just so unstable for me, i would love to use it, because it looks so good but they seemed to have sacraficed functionality for looks
[20:59] <pace_t_zulu> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/fcc-contest-seeks-more-data-better-net-neutrality
[20:59] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: ^
[21:05] <wrst> pace_t_zulu, cyberanger i'm not exactly on top of the net neutrality stuff what do you guys think?
[21:10] <pace_t_zulu> i am pro neutrality
[21:11] <pace_t_zulu> perhaps one day i will change my mind
[21:11] <pace_t_zulu> but i don't see that happening
[22:07] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: intresting, in a way
[22:07] <cyberanger> wrst: the terms flopped around in a way that makes me dislike it
[22:07] <cyberanger> I'll settle for ethical and consumer driven
[22:43] <wrst> i suppose i may not fully understand what is going on with it cyberanger
[22:44] <wrst> just did a little reading and I understand, why someone would be pro- but also shudder in fear of the fcc doing much of anything other than screwing things up
[22:44] <wrst> cyberanger: i think i willl probalby agree with you on what i have read so far
[22:45] <cyberanger> wrst: that's the fcc
[22:45] <cyberanger> and thus my comment
[22:45] <wrst> yeah i'm very much a "small government" guy so i'm not wild about regulators
[22:45] <wrst> not saying we don't need some regulation i'm not an anarchist :)
[22:46] <cyberanger> well, the fcc in it's original space made sense
[22:46] <cyberanger> try having everyone use 2.4ghz for everything
[22:47] <cyberanger> fm radio, tv, worldwide radio, celluar towers, wifi, bluetooth
[22:47] <cyberanger> no space
[22:48] <cyberanger> (illogical example, but a quick and dirty one too)
[22:48] <wrst> yes agreed like most things they get too power hungry