[00:12] hard to say which [00:12] maybe both [00:12] * cyberanger just finished watching the social network [03:33] how was it cyberanger? [03:41] well, it was intresting [03:42] I liked the fact they metioned linux tools in reasonable ways [03:42] and kept it to linux too [03:43] not to metion the inner bits that was intresting, metioning the race in london, watched live on facebook [03:44] cool cyberanger, well off to bed i go see you tomorrow! [03:46] wrst: see ya [04:19] What ever happened to binarymutant? [04:19] exodus_ms: hard to say [04:20] similar to you I suppose [04:20] circumstances got in the way [04:20] The last I was on here regularly was prolly a year ago [04:20] Ah, gotcha [04:20] your case you came back, his case idk [04:21] Yeah, I had to take a break. Put my focus on other things [04:21] yeah, he had some issues between him and his ISP (and I could assume his wallet same as my own for awhile, mainly feb to july) [04:22] Evening all [04:22] I meant like I did feb to july [04:22] hey jfenn2199 [04:22] Evening jfenn2199 [04:23] exodus_ms: I was on most nights, hung out at hotspots and such, the word addicted comes to mind, all three of us had bigger fish to fry [04:23] I still don't have internet at home. Using my phone atm [04:23] and another word comes to mind, stubborn, I was too stubborn to let lack of a good connection stop me [04:23] How goes cyberanger and exodus_ms (long time no see) [04:23] exodus_ms: can't blame you, I'd do the same here, and probally will again [04:24] jfenn2199: reasonable [04:24] messing with tor [04:24] Pretty good. At work still, bout 30 more mins to go :) [04:24] exodus_ms: I thought you couldn't use it at work [04:24] work still is out at arnold right? [04:25] Sounds good I've been out for 5 hours if you don't count the public transit commute [04:25] Using my phone [04:26] cyberanger I still work at AEDC, using my phone to chat [04:26] jfenn2199: I would [04:26] exodus_ms: suprised they let you [04:27] guess you've got some weaker policies than others I know [04:28] fear of a roving bug threats I guess [04:28] At my work we're not supposed to be on our phones but since I got all but one person to get an Android phone even my manager is always on his [04:28] lol [04:29] It was funny after I got mine every 3 months someone else was getting one [04:29] I'm about to upgrade to an Epic [04:29] I'm gonna just upgrade the software of mine for now [04:29] gingerbread [04:30] I still want to get a Nokia N900 [04:30] Well the moment I don't think will handle froyo and sprint let's me get a new one every year so why not [04:30] Symbian? [04:31] (Sorry don't feel like going to google) [04:31] no, was Maemo [04:31] Ok [04:31] well, I guess still is, but I can dev it for Meego [04:31] or stick froyo on it too [04:32] That's nice [04:33] I'm just stuck to Samsung after the Moment this phone has been super durable [04:34] I've litterally dropped it so hard that the battery cover flies off and I just pick it up put the cover on and go right back to what I was doing [04:38] the HTC Desire Z is that sturdy [04:40] Yeah I don't like SenseUI though [04:43] oh, well, that's nice it's all software [04:43] here it's branded as the T-Mobile G2, pretty much stock [04:43] and that's really what I have (I just prefer it's htc name) [04:44] and I don't use the stock build [04:44] I use a root and dev cyogenmod build [05:08] Sorry phone died [05:32] Wb exodus_ms [05:32] thanks jfenn2199 [05:33] a little easier on my computer to chat [05:33] Haha I hear that [05:33] It's still another month till I have access back at the house [05:34] right now im tethered to my phone, got about a .5s lag [05:34] Yeah I need to root this one [05:35] i didnt need to root my phone to tether [05:35] Newer one with an extra bill or....? [05:35] not sure what ya mean? [05:36] using an app called easyThether. [05:36] Ok that's what I was wondering [05:37] everything goes thru my data plan (unlimited) [05:37] Is it available on 2.1? [05:38] http://www.mobile-stream.com/easytether/android.html [05:38] exodus_ms: cool they let you hang onto your phone at ADEC [05:38] some guys in similar places, they can't [05:39] cyberanger, yeah, but there are places I cant take it. [05:39] I'd assume a roving bug fear, podslurping and so on [05:39] ah, per area [05:39] you have to drop it off before you enter [05:40] for those places I just use a nokia 2320, dumb can't do anything device [05:40] out of concern of something happening to my smartphone [05:40] brb, my pup needs to go outside... [05:42] Ugh since I don't have a usb cabel I'll have to wait until I'm at a hotspot to use it :-/ [05:43] *cable [05:47] jfenn2199, im confused [05:50] if you had a hotspot to use, you wouldnt need your phone to tether to? [05:50] Oh it says I need to install something on the computer I could dl it to the phone and transfer it to the machine but I've lost my usb cable so I can't transfer it [05:50] ah, gotcha. yes, there is a deb pkg you need to dl [05:52] yeah, and you would need the cable anyway to tether [05:52] Ahhhh [05:52] So no ad_hoc [05:53] i know nothing about networking, i just connect and use :) [05:53] sorry [05:54] It's cool [05:54] but why would you need ad_hoc if you have bluetooth? or am i totally off [05:57] or is ad_hoc and bluetooth the same thing? [05:57] cyberanger, what smartphone are you using? [05:58] I may be using the wrong terminology but wifi to wifi [05:59] I have a T-Mobile G2 [05:59] sorry you guys, i got a serious lag over here [06:00] want to also grab a Nokia N900 [06:00] i keep dropping off the 3g to 1x... [06:00] as for ad-hoc wifi, there are some advanages [06:00] same with bluetooth [06:01] exodus_ms: it's fine, I remember using 20kbps link [06:01] cyberanger, whats the cl chat program? [06:01] I cant remember [06:02] exodus_ms: there are some things that can be done to lessen the bandwidth pain too [06:02] command line chat program for irc? [06:02] irssi, weechat, common two [06:02] irssi, thats it, thanks [06:03] do you think it would run any faster (bandwidth) than xchat? [06:03] for im, finch (or use bitlbee which is an im to irc gateway, and use another) [06:03] na, I just want irc [06:04] bandwidth alone, no, but it can help indirectly [06:05] what can I do about the bandwidth? [06:05] using xchat [06:05] which was kinda weird, I saw programs lighter on cpu and ram actually speed up when bandwidth was the issue [06:06] even when bandwidth didn't change [06:06] cyberanger, just curious. where are you seeing me connecting from? [06:08] the main thing I did was setup a local dns server and squid proxy, which ensured that as much traffic wasn't requested twice [06:08] view the same image on facebook, request the same ubuntu package, no point downloading it twice [06:08] sorry I've got lag here too, tor expirement [06:08] ah man, see there, you get all crazy. I dont have internet dude! [06:09] 68.sub-174-252-154.myvzw.com [06:09] if I had internet coming into my apt i could do something like that maybe [06:09] that's not crazy,or at least not crazy dependant on internet [06:10] i was just curious, for some reason i get routed thru north carolina at times [06:10] ah, that's understandable with verizon's setups [06:11] i was just under the impression that irc was light on bandwidth. just text being transfered back and forth [06:11] the above I metioned, was due how I operated [06:11] worse than you, 20kbps iden [06:11] and it really helped [06:12] cool [06:12] irc is light, but also real time [06:12] 1987 there wasn't alot around [06:12] same in the 92 august coup or the 1992 gulf war [06:12] irc's biggest days [06:13] ok, irc is light but real time.... thats what im saying, were using something that was good for dial up, so why cant i get decent speed thru 3g? [06:13] but due to everyone having better links now, it shows more defined [06:13] high latency, no low bandwidth [06:13] that's the issue [06:14] ok [06:14] satellite internet is the same, high bandwidth, but higher latency [06:14] and thus your great on bandwidth compared to dial-up, but dial up had lower latency [06:15] ah [06:15] i see said the blind man [06:15] since each msg is a packet, latency is it's travel time [06:16] bandwidth is the size of the packet or packet stream [06:16] streaming music on pandora can be cached, buffered, nobody notices the latency [06:16] so, if there were more folks in this discussion, i would see greater latency? [06:17] exodus_ms, I get a latency of 15 seconds sometimes on IRC but I don't really notice the lag with few people in a conversation [06:17] hard to say, if your truely on 3g there, not dropping below to 2.5g or older [06:17] you shouldn't [06:17] chris4585: is on hughesnet, he also understands it [06:17] my lag right now is 1.3 seconds right now, thats only twice as large as cell phones really [06:17] im showing 3g with all bars :) [06:18] exodus_ms: I think it'd be the same, until the channel size really jumps [06:18] things usually just take longer to start, egg youtube, but once started its all good [06:18] it's a per packet phenomenon [06:18] more chatter, more packets [06:19] and the way celluar routes, the more tricks [06:19] chris4585, i see that in pandora like cyberanger mentioned, it kicked me off the other day for not having a fast enough connection :/ [06:19] yeah it sucks [06:19] hughesnet has really good speeds after hours though [06:20] or if its a really clear sky [06:20] what I was metioning in pandora, was more of how it doesn't break up due to a few packets lost [06:20] but miss enough it'll suffer [06:20] someone around my apt has wifi called "virusplace" its unprotected, great signal but Im not so sure i should connect to it ;) [06:20] but latency isn't the issue [06:21] awesome psyop ssid [06:21] but why leave it passwd unprotected? [06:22] I'd love to help you both optimize your connections, something I've gotten great at here [06:22] cyberanger, you need to invest in small towers and put them in strategic places around tn [06:22] exodus_ms, to allow people to connect to it? lol [06:22] exodus_ms: becuase he can, he's effectively scared you off, there is no further incentive to him to keep you off [06:22] thus why I said psyop [06:23] cyberanger, that too [06:23] exodus_ms: as for small towers, I'm looking at tech that is like that [06:23] well, im going to connect to it and dl a bunch of horse porn on his puter, and show him :p [06:23] and celluar tech, satellite too [06:24] * cyberanger has seriously been looking at starting an isp for small towns in highly rual areas, and learned alot of low bandwidth tricks in the process [06:25] cyberanger, the last time we talked seriously you were working on that. i think its great bro [06:25] hehe, forgot you were here for that [06:26] there is def a need for something like that. but its way over my head. i understand the concept but thats about it [06:26] you've been gone so long, hard to remember something ongoing for the past 7 months, if I recall [06:27] yeah, about that time. it was around this time last year i started falling back [06:28] i literally "unplugged" for awhile. [06:28] yeah, concept is one thing, the technical methods another, insuring the customer has no need to know how it works [06:29] that's the goal [06:29] however, if they ask, I would answer [06:29] exodus_ms: well, idk if that was a year ago, I don't recall starting an isp then, or starting my router project [06:30] do you have an outline, proposal or plan on paper you could present to anyone? [06:30] however my networking knowlege has been there, so I might have considered it as an idea to toy with longer than I recall [06:30] cyberanger, maybe not, but I do recall talking with you about a need for it. at the time you were traveling a bit [06:30] not atm, right now I just do it q&a [06:31] maybe you were around in june a little, in the middle of things [06:31] and I've used xmpp to chat with you too (your end was probally facebook) [06:31] idk, i think the last time i was on here consistently was the earlier part of last year [06:32] so who knows [06:32] at any rate, its good to be back chatting with old friends :) [06:32] indeed [06:33] ive been so out-of-the loop. slowly getting back into it [06:33] and now that I think a little, you were around a year ago, I recall the motlaw game, same day as your christmas day parade, and you had a night shift [06:34] went to the game, root the away team, that was dec. [06:34] and I had a trip later on, into tullahoma, febuary, you were still around [06:34] but in nashville then (forget the reason) [06:34] one hell of a year for both of us [06:35] yeah, i think i remember that. February was when i moved out [06:35] indeed [06:36] i just had a lot going on. I had to unplug bro. I felt a need to purge alot of things. I didnt mean to be rude to anyone [06:36] I think everyone understands [06:36] cool [06:36] I know I do [06:37] right on, thanks bro [06:38] wrst and I saw the departing the team launchpad email, he wondered at that time, but you had already filled some of us on the mess [06:39] and he understood, those that know bits of your nightmare really do understand that kind of stand back and think mentality you took [06:39] and I do mean that offer on tethering tweaks to help [06:40] or in chris4585's case, slightly different reason, pretty much the same tweaks [06:40] exodus_ms: it wouldn't take much to use your smartphone as a modem, and your ubuntu machine as a router [06:42] cyberanger, the thing is, right now the setup allows incoming txt msg, calls etc to still come thru when im tethered [06:42] granted, it usually disrupts my connection to my laptop and i have to "reconnect" when that happens [06:43] im curious if i used my phone as a modem if i could also receive calls, txt msgs etc at the same time [06:44] * cyberanger remembers taking an asus eee pc with two wifi cards, connecting one to mcdonalds wifi, having the other act as an access point, and was on for 4 hours (with their stuff set to try and kick off every two hours, it was fun proving how weak that setup was) [06:45] if your tethering now fine, then yes [06:45] * exodus_ms just needs stuff to work... is thankful he can chat at the moment [06:46] the one bit needed is the routing bit, that's not the phone, that's the computer next to it [06:46] what is the benefit to your proposal? [06:46] and linux kernels really excel there [06:46] smartphone (modem) *buntu machine (router)? [06:47] pretty much [06:47] thats what im asking, what is the benefit to that? [06:48] depends on how your setup for what I'm proposing exactly, but as for the smartphone and linux machine combo [06:48] just a way to share it's internet connection [06:49] if you have more than one machine [06:49] as for the squid proxy (one other idea) has the additional benifit of conserving bandwidth [06:50] if you head to facebook once via squid proxy, and open it later, squid has most of the images already [06:50] so you only download what squid doesn't have [06:50] where is it stored? the cache that is? [06:51] on the ubuntu machine [06:51] that it's installed to [06:52] so if you have a desktop, and two laptops, and install squid on the desktop, then the cache is on the desktop [06:52] but cant you setup your browser to do that already? [06:52] setup your browser to cache images? [06:53] yes, and everything else. [06:53] depends on the browser, and most modern ones that'd be a yes [06:53] but not everything else (such as deb packages) [06:53] and text [06:54] and think of squid as a way to share caches too [06:54] as if you own 3 machines, they don't have the same cache, necessarlly [06:54] but if you visit somewhere you have never visited before, its irrelevant right? [06:54] well, not entirely, but for the most part yes [06:55] after all, a different site might have the same image, or embedded content [06:55] like google analytics scripts [06:56] maybe i could create a bot that scanned the internet at regular intervals and stored the relevent info on a personal server that could be used to share that cache [06:56] the idea is reduction, you'll never hit zero [06:57] but on a scale of 0-3 (say, 3 machines) if all machines get ubuntu updates, and visit facebook each day, it would be 3, but with squid, shrink to 1 or less [06:57] but not 0 [06:57] but, the larger the cache the more time it takes to search thru the archives etc etc, kinda defeats the purpose [06:58] I've had extremely large caches, and it'll purge when something is timestale [06:58] no isp can rival the speed of your lan [06:59] i understand how it can be useful for redundancy i.e frequently visited sites etc. but what about the not so frequent? [06:59] in this case, verizon wireless is the isp, and any speed lost is minor, and gained by the fact your not needing celluar to fetch it [07:00] * exodus_ms misses being able to chat a scour the web at the same time... [07:00] you'd be suprised how consistant ones web browsing habits are [07:00] and not so frequent won't be too big an issue still [07:01] social engineering def plays into effect here, but there are times i break out of habbits, just because ya know ;) [07:01] if your connection is slow, this won't slow it down needlessly [07:02] ok, im going to open up chromim, lets see what happens [07:02] bandwidth is allways the weakest link [07:02] *chromium [07:02] any slow down is milliseconds [07:03] im going to clear the cache as well [07:03] and recouped by a single item added or pulled from the cache [07:04] lag = .7s [07:05] but is that one computer? and your only one? [07:05] so, looking at the meter i can almost anticipate when a msg will arrive here in xchat, kinda cool [07:06] yes [07:06] and only browser? [07:07] no firefox [07:07] no ff [07:08] wait, ff is installed but not running. is that what you were asking? [07:08] if it was installed [07:08] well, more your usage [07:08] you could get away with just xchat and chromium [07:08] for a month [07:12] reason I'm asking is to define normal usage [07:12] to compare to vz's expectations and plus areas to optimize [07:13] dns, http, irc [07:13] thats about it ^ [07:14] maybe also ntp, but for a laptop, there can be another way to deal with that, or ignore it [07:14] if i had a regular dedicated line for my apt, it would be different [07:14] but you don't need one [07:14] ntp? what for? [07:14] however, what would you change [07:15] ntp, network time protocall, something I expect is going on in the backround [07:15] it's traffic, gotta count it [07:15] yeah, thats why i was asking why i would us/need it? [07:15] *use [07:16] well, you probally already are, and it's a give away that you are tethering [07:16] since the phone doesn't use ntp via vz's data network [07:16] speedtest before 2am http://www.speedtest.net/result/1110696045.png [07:16] the celluar base station sends it the time [07:16] speedtest after 2am http://www.speedtest.net/result/1110709125.png [07:17] chris4585: no fap throttling for it [07:18] exodus_ms: as for why it's used, more accurate than the interal clock [07:18] oh god if I was under fap it would be awful, the test would take 20mins to complete [07:18] the internal clock drifts alot [07:18] chris4585: not to metion the speed couldn't be that high, they drop to 56k or less [07:19] exodus_ms: I'm looking at it as if I was hughesnet, verizon, charter, whoever [07:19] looking at all usage [07:19] and that's important if your tethering [07:21] is it a bad thing that you know im tethering? you mentioned it was a give away that i was [07:22] the nice thing about android, one can explain away some of the signs, such as using a different dns server (I use opennic, and one of my websites is www.zachgibbens.geek, a opennic only site) [07:22] but if they have a policy against excessive data and tethering, it's a bit worse [07:22] they often turn a blind eye, to a point [07:23] ntp traffic is a sign I'd look for that screams tethering [07:23] gotcha [07:23] but if my traffic stays low (and your case it will, if that's all your doing) it's pointless to cry foul [07:25] it used to be that ssh traffic was a give away, but not anymore, using a different dns server was (that one can be explained too, but that's not as clear cut) [07:25] it's gotten to the point where the amount of traffic is the only thing that pisses them off [07:26] why do they care? man, it pisses me off. [07:26] much to my disappointment (it's no fun tricking a blind guy into looking for gullibule on the celing) [07:27] exodus_ms: are they charging you an arm and a leg? [07:27] it would be different if i were downloading a ton of crap and eating up bandwidth, but they want to nickle and dime every freaking packet [07:27] they want both legs [07:27] greed [07:27] well, they've moved away from nickel and diming like they did [07:28] cyberanger, not at the moment, i have an unlimited data package, one flat monthly rate [07:28] tethering is a sign of high usage, in theroy [07:29] and what they care about is when one guy tests the defination of unlimited [07:30] im not trying to test anyone, i just want access to what should be a no-cost venture in the first place [07:30] on virgin mobile I did just that (knowing I paid cash and they had no data on me, thus the worst thing they could do is kill service and I'd just act like a new customer) [07:30] grabbed 10g in under 48 hours [07:31] when at the time 5gb was the cap for contract services with everyone but t-mobile [07:31] t-mo had a soft cap of 10g and then throttle [07:32] www.zachgibbens.geek <-- not site? [07:32] I did that becuase their policy had no fine print (at the time, I got an email today saying they're gonna soft cap at 5gb and then throttle) [07:32] (starting feb 15th I think) [07:33] your not testing them, or being a heavy user, your fine [07:34] they'll see markers like ntp, but ignore them, insignificant amount [07:34] it's an opennic domain, http://www.opennicproject.org [07:34] if using opennic it'd resolve to 109.74.196.32 [07:35] my holy grail server of servers ;-) [07:36] .com .org .edu ICANN domains [07:37] cool, hey bro im gonna call it a night. nice catching up with you. like always i learned alot ;) [07:37] OpenNIC want's an independant and democratic system, due to misdeeds in the current system, such as ICE seizing numerous .com's and such [07:37] exodus_ms: understand, nearly 2am there [07:38] enjoy the night, see you another one [07:38] cyberanger, yes indeed [13:32] hey linuxman410 [13:32] hey wrst [13:32] how are things going linuxman410? [13:33] going ok got my new phone yesterday [13:34] got my laptop too it would not run ubuntu 10.10 but it run xubuntu 10.10 does not make sense [13:36] weird linuxman410, just wouldn't start? [13:40] no it just sit there at the ubuntu screen i thought about trying mint on it [13:42] hmm weird, did you try an alternate install cd? [13:42] or did it install ? and wouldn't boot afterwards? [13:42] no i guess i can download that and try it [13:43] no it would not install from regular download media [13:43] lots of times that will take care of those problems or if you want the regular gnome you could just install ubuntu-desktop [13:52] wrst i tried sudo apt-get install ubuntu desktop and it said not found [13:52] linuxman410: shoudl be ubuntu-desktop gotta have the - [13:53] gotta it was not paying attention still early [13:53] i know the feeling linuxman410 :) [13:53] i had kubuntu installed and did that last night... wow kubuntu still pretty much stinks for me [13:54] i have always used ubuntu not xubuntu [13:54] i don't really get xubuntu [13:55] me either [13:56] yeah just i don't know just kinda strange to me [13:56] finally got natty live cd to boot but it kept crashing [13:57] weird [14:13] morning all [14:13] wrst [14:15] morning Xpistos [14:15] wrst refresh my memory how do i remove xfce-desktop [14:15] morning everyone [14:16] linuxman410: should be apt-get remove xfce-desktop or to remove all the config files apt-get purge [14:16] but i'm not positive if that will remove everything xfce [14:16] linuxman410: very carefully [14:16] and it won't [14:17] if any tool is dependant on it [14:17] cyberanger: i see something suggesting apt-get autoremove [14:18] ther dependancy settings are sweet for installing metapackages, not so much otherwise [14:18] autoremove is fine [14:18] just removes what isn't used [14:19] Xpistos: you should have an email later today with code you seeked [14:19] just gotta get at my machine first [14:19] cyberanger: thanks bro [14:20] wrst i tried sudo apt-get remove xfce-desktop and it says unable to locate [14:20] linuxman410: metapackage, gotta remove it's dependices [14:20] linuxman410: its actually xubuntu-desktop is the metapackage name [14:21] oh, that'd also help [14:24] ok i have remove xubuntu-desktop and now have ubuntu-desktop with a xubuntu splash screen and login window [14:24] linuxman410: i found a command [14:24] sudo apt-get remove a2ps abiword abiword-common abiword-plugin-grammar abiword-plugin-mathview aumix aumix-common browser-plugin-parole catfish elementary-icon-theme exaile exo-utils fortune-mod fortunes-min gdebi gdebi-core gigolo gimp gimp-data gnumeric gnumeric-common gnumeric-doc gtk2-engines-xfce gvfs-bin hal hal-info imagemagick libabiword-2.8 libaiksaurus-1.2-0c2a libaiksaurus-1.2-data libaiksaurusgtk-1.2-0c2a libbabl-0.0-0 libcdt4 libexo-0.3 [14:24] -0 libexo-common libgdome2-0 libgdome2-cpp-smart0c2a libgegl-0.0-0 libgimp2.0 libgoffice-0.8-8 libgoffice-0.8-8-common libgraph4 libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libgtkmathview0c2a libgvc5 libhal-storage1 libhal1 libilmbase6 libjpeg-progs libjpeg8 liblink-grammar4 libloudmouth1-0 libmagickcore3-extra libmng1 libnetpbm10 libopenexr6 libotr2 libots0 libpathplan4 libpsiconv6 librecode0 libsexy2 libtagc0 libthunar-vfs-1-2 libwv-1.2-3 libxcb-keysyms1 libxdot4 [14:24]