| falktx | ScottL: i'm back, do you have some time now? | 01:19 |
|---|---|---|
| falktx | I started working on the new -controls thing | 01:19 |
| ailo | falktx: There was some discussion earlier about how to implement installing a new kernel and adding user to audio group. | 01:26 |
| falktx | ailo: oh, cool | 01:26 |
| ailo | One of the ideas was to implement it into the installation of Ubuntustudio, or Ubuntustudio packages | 01:26 |
| ailo | How far did you come on the controls? | 01:27 |
| falktx | hm, kernel might work, but not sure how to add a user to audio if running as root (no way to tell which is the current user) | 01:27 |
| falktx | ailo: well, for that, I have good news and bad news | 01:28 |
| falktx | ailo: which first? | 01:28 |
| ailo | I don't judge. | 01:28 |
| falktx | you may consider both good news, not sure | 01:28 |
| falktx | let me make some screenshots | 01:28 |
| rlameiro | are you making the controls in Qt? | 01:30 |
| falktx | rlameiro: yes | 01:30 |
| falktx | kinda | 01:30 |
| rlameiro | hummm well, it easier :D | 01:30 |
| falktx | rlameiro: do you know about my patchbay project ? | 01:30 |
| rlameiro | klaudia? | 01:30 |
| rlameiro | I can try to help you on the controls.. | 01:31 |
| rlameiro | I did ported it to gtkbuilder | 01:31 |
| rlameiro | from glade | 01:31 |
| falktx | rlameiro: i prefer to start from scratch | 01:32 |
| falktx | rlameiro: ailo: recent screenshot of my patchbay app -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr105.jpg | 01:32 |
| rlameiro | falktx: yeah, of course | 01:32 |
| rlameiro | but you can take ideas from the project already done | 01:33 |
| falktx | rlameiro: yes | 01:33 |
| falktx | so let's start with the good news | 01:33 |
| ailo | falktx: I saw it before. Looks nice. | 01:33 |
| rlameiro | nice!!!! | 01:33 |
| falktx | this is the good news: | 01:33 |
| falktx | http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg | 01:34 |
| falktx | http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr103.jpg | 01:34 |
| rlameiro | it looks a mix of patchage with controls :D | 01:34 |
| falktx | http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr104.jpg | 01:34 |
| falktx | rlameiro: ailo: ^ this is my version of -controls, that is not mockup, but the start of the app design | 01:34 |
| rlameiro | That is more or less my first idea :D | 01:34 |
| ailo | falktx: Looks nice | 01:35 |
| falktx | now the "bad" news | 01:36 |
| rlameiro | :( | 01:36 |
| falktx | it won't be part of UbuntuStudio | 01:36 |
| rlameiro | why? | 01:36 |
| rlameiro | because its Qt? | 01:36 |
| falktx | I'll develop to continue my idea of the next kxstudio | 01:36 |
| falktx | this app will integrate into my other app, like the patchbay, in a all-in-one jack solution | 01:37 |
| falktx | I already have the patchbay, a jack-logs viewer, jack-render app, and a gui to configure jack | 01:37 |
| ailo | falktx: How about making a simplified version for Ubuntustudio? | 01:38 |
| falktx | If I join some work I've already done for kxstudio, I'm guessing the app will be very cool | 01:38 |
| falktx | ailo: my plan is to create an app that will work on any distro, any version of linux | 01:38 |
| ailo | ok | 01:38 |
| rlameiro | yea | 01:39 |
| rlameiro | http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg | 01:39 |
| falktx | ailo: If I worked close to US, than only ubuntu would benefit from it | 01:39 |
| rlameiro | here is stated "linux distributiono" bla bla bla | 01:39 |
| rlameiro | soo its made thinking on that :D | 01:39 |
| falktx | yes | 01:39 |
| rlameiro | falktx: not necessarily | 01:39 |
| rlameiro | it your software | 01:40 |
| falktx | ailo: all my code is gpl, and all the modules are in different files, so it will be very easy to implement them on new apps | 01:40 |
| rlameiro | Also diferent distro have diferent place to setup stuff, so everyone would need to adapt it to each distro | 01:40 |
| falktx | rlameiro: that's where it comes in | 01:40 |
| falktx | rlameiro: I already have a team setup to help in this | 01:41 |
| falktx | rlameiro: first step is to handle jack properly in all DEs (mostly gnome, kde and xcfe) | 01:41 |
| rlameiro | Qt works well | 01:41 |
| falktx | rlameiro: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/ | 01:41 |
| rlameiro | is that an invite? falktx ? | 01:42 |
| falktx | rlameiro: just say 'yes' if you wanna join | 01:42 |
| rlameiro | yes | 01:42 |
| rlameiro | :) | 01:42 |
| rlameiro | lol | 01:42 |
| falktx | rlameiro: give me the link to your launchpad page | 01:42 |
| rlameiro | everything for the good to the community | 01:42 |
| rlameiro | https://launchpad.net/~rlameiro | 01:43 |
| falktx | rlameiro: done, you're on the team now | 01:45 |
| rlameiro | :) | 01:45 |
| falktx | rlameiro: I'll publish some docs about the team tasks soon... ;) | 01:45 |
| rlameiro | ok | 01:46 |
| falktx | rlameiro: afaik, everytime I do a package upload, you'll get a mail about it | 01:46 |
| rlameiro | falktx: take in mind that my main task on US is testing... | 01:46 |
| rlameiro | I am on the process of learning C and python | 01:46 |
| rlameiro | and also playing around with ARM | 01:47 |
| falktx | rlameiro: don't worry, I plan to do most of the work | 01:47 |
| rlameiro | lol | 01:47 |
| ailo | falktx: Is there some place where one can see what you are planning to do? | 01:47 |
| falktx | rlameiro: but AutoStatic joined the team too, so he will help in packaging too | 01:47 |
| rlameiro | falktx: you should make an Amazon wishlist dude | 01:47 |
| holstein | i get emails when falktx is hard at work | 01:47 |
| holstein | package updates :) | 01:48 |
| falktx | hehe, sorry for that holstein | 01:48 |
| holstein | falktx: no, i like it | 01:48 |
| falktx | holstein: did you get the new ones about patchage, raul, etc? | 01:48 |
| rlameiro | well, then we need to clarify what is needed for the new Studio controls | 01:48 |
| holstein | falktx: i think so | 01:48 |
| holstein | falktx: they just kinda go by | 01:48 |
| rlameiro | at least for now... | 01:48 |
| falktx | ailo: rlameiro: this is an old doc I made some time ago - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/KXStudio-Team.odt (outdated!) | 01:48 |
| holstein | and im starting to know what the packages are | 01:48 |
| holstein | and what they do | 01:48 |
| ailo | falktx: office document? Was empty. | 01:50 |
| falktx | ailo: no, it's not... | 01:50 |
| falktx | ailo: i just opened it | 01:50 |
| holstein | yeah | 01:51 |
| holstein | ailo: you trying OO.o ? | 01:51 |
| ailo | hostein: I think its' firefox 4 on Natty. It won't open magnet links either. I have to download files before I can open them. Same thing here. | 01:52 |
| holstein | yeah, plausible | 01:52 |
| holstein | FF4 is nice though | 01:52 |
| rlameiro | very nice | 01:52 |
| holstein | faster again | 01:52 |
| rlameiro | falktx: what control modules do you have? | 01:52 |
| rlameiro | maybe i can hack something for natty... | 01:52 |
| falktx | holstein: lol, you remind me of mythbusters... | 01:52 |
| holstein | ;) | 01:53 |
| falktx | rlameiro: right now (the code already done or that I can copy) is... | 01:53 |
| falktx | jack-config | 01:53 |
| falktx | jack-logs | 01:53 |
| falktx | jack-patchbay | 01:53 |
| falktx | audio-plugins-path | 01:53 |
| falktx | default-applications | 01:53 |
| falktx | user-groups | 01:54 |
| falktx | firewire/ hpet, rtc permissions | 01:54 |
| falktx | hm... | 01:54 |
| ScottL | falktx, yes i have time :) | 01:54 |
| ailo | falktx: I was told you were doing something unifying. (I would like to help in that respect.) | 01:54 |
| falktx | ScottL: oh, please read backlog | 01:54 |
| rlameiro | ok, so maybe i will need is the jack config ans the firewire and hpet etc... | 01:55 |
| falktx | ailo: "unifying" ? | 01:55 |
| ailo | Not distro dependant. | 01:55 |
| rlameiro | unificador falktx | 01:55 |
| falktx | rlameiro: one hany thing not done yet is wine/wineasio stuff | 01:55 |
| falktx | ailo: yes, the document clears a few things | 01:56 |
| rlameiro | falktx: no problem, i dont think it is a very important | 01:56 |
| rlameiro | if it is ppa based you can roll out updates easily | 01:56 |
| falktx | rlameiro: I want to make it compatible with winetricks, so that useful dlls can be easily installed | 01:56 |
| falktx | rlameiro: the PPA is just for packaging, I really dont want to force these new tools for ubuntu-only | 01:57 |
| falktx | at least they should on debian too... hehe | 01:57 |
| rlameiro | falktx: I am talking for testing :D | 01:57 |
| falktx | rlameiro: ha, yes | 01:58 |
| falktx | rlameiro: in fact, the new PPAs are almost ready! | 01:58 |
| falktx | https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa | 01:58 |
| ScottL | falktx, that's cool that your work on -controls won't be part of ubuntu studio | 01:58 |
| ScottL | falktx, i think ailo and paultag are going to make some good progress together | 01:59 |
| ScottL | falktx, have you made any progress on getting ladish into debian? | 01:59 |
| falktx | ScottL: as soon as it gets beta, I'll try to push it to debian | 02:00 |
| ScottL | falktx, excellent! | 02:00 |
| falktx | ScottL: on ladish progress, I need some help | 02:00 |
| ScottL | falktx, oh? is it something quadrispro can help with? | 02:00 |
| ScottL | falktx, i forgot i told you i would find some links for you to help get ladish into debian, i'll try to find those tonight/tomorrow morning | 02:01 |
| falktx | ScottL: yes | 02:01 |
| ScottL | falktx, the debian multimedia team is really good giving feedback when you post to their git and send email to the mailing list | 02:01 |
| falktx | ScottL: i think I told you before, I already have the package in revu | 02:01 |
| ScottL | falktx, i mean they are awesome! | 02:01 |
| ScottL | falktx, yes, but REVU moves extremely slow compared to DMT, you will probably receive a reply email within 24 hours on the DMT mailing list | 02:02 |
| falktx | ScottL: yep, I think I'll never use revu again | 02:02 |
| ScottL | falktx, i can only surmise that it works for *something*, but apparently not very well for audio centric packages | 02:03 |
| ailo | What's the deal with debian. Abstractions (tasksels and settings) stay in Ubuntu, but all the individual packages go to Debian? | 02:03 |
| ScottL | ailo, no, it's not really a hard, fast rule...at least for audio packages | 02:04 |
| ScottL | it's more a logistical consideration | 02:04 |
| rlameiro | time to sleep | 02:04 |
| rlameiro | cya tomorrow | 02:04 |
| ScottL | they have mad packages and developers who work packages super aggresively and rapidly | 02:04 |
| ScottL | goodnight rlameiro | 02:04 |
| ScottL | s/packages/packagers | 02:05 |
| ScottL | ailo, and they have quite a number of packagers/developers as well | 02:05 |
| ScottL | and by "they" i mean the debian multimedia team (DMT) | 02:05 |
| ailo | So, you guys don't think you'll move to Debian entirely with time? | 02:05 |
| ScottL | ailo, one last thing: every release, all packages that are not in ubuntu will sync automatically from debian into ubuntu | 02:06 |
| ScottL | ailo, re: move to debian, i suppose it's a possibility :/ | 02:06 |
| ScottL | ailo, and i suppose it depends on which direction shuttleworth keeps pushing ubuntu and whether it's more direct or less troublesome with debian (?) | 02:07 |
| ailo | ScottL: I don't suppose Ubuntu will become too one-minded? | 02:07 |
| ScottL | ailo, i consider it a real possibility within several releases | 02:08 |
| ailo | Debian seems like a safe haven. | 02:08 |
| falktx | ubuntu likes to break the rules | 02:08 |
| falktx | debian/rules, hehe | 02:08 |
| ScottL | i think mark wants to make something _different_ than other linux distros, to stand apart from the others, and directed toward the masses | 02:09 |
| falktx | ScottL: i think mark just wants to imitate Mac | 02:09 |
| ailo | ScottL: That seems to have been one of its strengths. Now perhaps Ubuntu is movin towards tablets. | 02:09 |
| ScottL | eh, i'm not that sure about that, but i could be wrong falktx | 02:09 |
| falktx | ScottL: he, the notify-osd, globalmenu, and bunch of other stuff that are just ripped off mac's | 02:10 |
| ailo | But Ubuntu should make two flavors, classic and new | 02:10 |
| ScottL | ailo, but i think they will still offer a desktop release, but it may be buried under layers of "improvements" as to be very difficult to make an audio distro | 02:10 |
| falktx | ailo: from time to time I began to feel the need to look for other distros | 02:11 |
| falktx | but the PPAs are just the greatest thing... | 02:11 |
| ScottL | but to be forthcoming, fixing unity xsession really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal at this time | 02:11 |
| ailo | ScottL: falktx: Audio devs need to have a common face and a common goal on the basic system. | 02:12 |
| ScottL | mark has done a lot of things different, launchpad instead of a normal git repo, not contributing to kernel, gnome as much, unity and wayland vs gnome | 02:12 |
| ScottL | i really doubt he'll simply copy the mac | 02:12 |
| ScottL | ailo, that would really help audio work i believe | 02:13 |
| falktx | hm... | 02:13 |
| ailo | Ubuntu is big, so a unified kernel would not be bad | 02:13 |
| ailo | Who is talking with the linux kernel devs about audio issues? | 02:14 |
| ScottL | i fully believe we will get the -lowlatency kernel into the repositories, just may be in natty+1 | 02:14 |
| ScottL | ailo, i believe abogani keeps up with upstream | 02:14 |
| ScottL | i don't know how much "discourse" occurs, he may only read posts and mailing lists | 02:15 |
| ScottL | ailo, what would you like to see different in the kernel for audio? | 02:15 |
| ailo | Just thinking about this cgroups thing | 02:16 |
| ailo | No one was prepared | 02:16 |
| ailo | It could be good to have an alternative kernel in the repo (or a couple) and let distros be based outside of Ubuntu. | 02:17 |
| ailo | So, the kernel syncs with all the other system stuff, like graphic drivers (don't know so much, other than that there have been problems in the past). | 02:18 |
| ailo | The -lowlatency is gold | 02:18 |
| ailo | An -rt kernel on top of that would be platinum | 02:18 |
| ailo | Debian seems to be the place for software packages | 02:19 |
| ailo | Maybe desktop setups is a place for PPA's? | 02:19 |
| ailo | (I mean PPA's being the place for Desktop Setups) | 02:20 |
| ailo | Puredune, Tango Studio, KXStudio, Ubuntustudio... same kernel, but different settings | 02:20 |
| ailo | Might as well be | 02:20 |
| ailo | What is the best strategy for the future? | 02:22 |
| ailo | After putting all packages into Debian, the move to Debian won't be so difficult. | 02:22 |
| ailo | If needed | 02:22 |
| falktx | ailo: have you heard of the new kernel-for-multimedia thing? | 02:24 |
| ailo | No | 02:24 |
| * holstein reading about http://liquorix.net/ | 02:24 | |
| falktx | ailo: ha, holstein got it, http://liquorix.net/ | 02:26 |
| ailo | falktx: I did read about it at one time | 02:26 |
| ailo | falktx: How does it work with Ubuntu? | 02:27 |
| holstein | falktx: OH, i thought you had a different project to link :) | 02:27 |
| holstein | i wouldnt have stolen it from you | 02:27 |
| holstein | i was just literally reading about that in the browser | 02:28 |
| ailo | Debian sid, aha | 02:28 |
| ailo | And arch.. | 02:29 |
| falktx | ailo: i can easily rebuild that stuff in PPAs | 02:29 |
| falktx | ailo: using the exact same configs and sources | 02:29 |
| falktx | anyone interested? | 02:29 |
| holstein | falktx: i'll try it | 02:29 |
| holstein | i was thinking about trying it in squeeze | 02:30 |
| ailo | falktx: Do you know what is the deal with that? Is it like the -lowlatency? | 02:30 |
| falktx | holstein: i think I'll push it to the kernel PPA | 02:30 |
| falktx | ailo: I have no idea... | 02:30 |
| ailo | I tried Debian with -rt once. Don't remember if I tried this one | 02:30 |
| ailo | Got kernel panic | 02:31 |
| ailo | It was a short marriage | 02:31 |
| ailo | But maybe such a project should be encouraged | 02:31 |
| falktx | well, I'll try to package it now! | 02:31 |
| ailo | falktx: How do you feel about communicating about long-term stuff with other audio distro friends? | 02:33 |
| falktx | ailo: i spoke with linux mint guys about making an audio distro and join with kxstudio, they rejected | 02:34 |
| falktx | ailo: i spoke with GMaq from avlinux too, but he's into debian | 02:34 |
| falktx | 64studio is dead | 02:34 |
| falktx | other distros are just crappy, and many stole my work (dreamstudio...) | 02:35 |
| falktx | the only good audio distros I see now are avlinux and kxstudio | 02:36 |
| falktx | no offense to US, but it's has it's issues | 02:36 |
| * falktx believes in honesty | 02:36 | |
| ailo | I was pretty happy with puredyne. It's XFCE, though | 02:36 |
| ailo | Karmic -rt kernel | 02:36 |
| falktx | ailo: oh, but I consider that has "live" distro only, not really for install | 02:36 |
| ailo | They do install too | 02:37 |
| falktx | like gnuguitar ? | 02:37 |
| ailo | And you can have it live on usb, and still install packages, add users | 02:37 |
| falktx | nice | 02:37 |
| ailo | It's the best I've tried in that sence | 02:37 |
| ailo | Except for having to put up with XFCE, which is buggy on some platforms, I think | 02:37 |
| ailo | They had an alternative wm, nothing on, except access to a terminal, pretty much | 02:38 |
| ailo | To make the live-usb, you would probably need to have Karmic installed. Otherwise the script doesn't seem to work | 02:39 |
| ailo | falktx: How do you solve jack remembering which card is chosen after reboot? | 02:40 |
| falktx | ailo: jackdbus does that by default | 02:41 |
| falktx | ailo: but I have an option to load a specifc ladish studio at login, which also does this | 02:41 |
| falktx | the new GUI (-controls alternative) will also have this | 02:42 |
| ailo | It does? How is that started? I asked this question on lau, and some jack people didnt give me this answer, strangely enough. | 02:42 |
| ailo | I mean, on the previous question | 02:43 |
| falktx | ailo: jack is started pre-kde, before kde even starts | 02:43 |
| falktx | ailo: kde allows this (running scripts before kde itself) | 02:43 |
| ailo | I guess I should give it a try :) | 02:44 |
| falktx | ailo: the new app should be able to this in all DEs, not just kde | 02:45 |
| falktx | I hope gnome supports this | 02:45 |
| ScottL | i think one strong division between ubuntu and ubuntu studio is that ubuntu tends to focus on a new user experience on the desktop | 02:45 |
| ScottL | rather than keeping a stable base and only updating applications and providing function over form | 02:45 |
| ailo | falktx: I am like rlameiro, only learning to code. I know a little this and that. How could I be of help in your project? | 02:46 |
| falktx | ailo: looking for how to implment stuff on gnome | 02:47 |
| falktx | ailo: the pre-session script start for example | 02:47 |
| ailo | You can find me on https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at | 02:47 |
| ailo | I'm interested in two things. Basic system compatibility, and ease of use. | 02:48 |
| falktx | 24 karma | 02:48 |
| ailo | Yes, funny | 02:48 |
| falktx | ailo: so you wanna join too? | 02:48 |
| ailo | Sure. I am looking to get more involved. | 02:48 |
| * falktx has 26370 of karma | 02:49 | |
| falktx | ailo: thanks!! | 02:49 |
| falktx | i love when people say things like this..! | 02:49 |
| ailo | I'm staying with US too, though, at least for this release. I am doing mostly testing, and finding results. | 02:49 |
| falktx | ailo: to be honest... | 02:50 |
| falktx | ailo: I hope to drop kxstudio soon and help US instead | 02:50 |
| falktx | this is a nice way to move users, without loosing anything | 02:50 |
| ailo | Well, I'm just looking to get involved, as I said. | 02:52 |
| falktx | well, I appreciate | 02:52 |
| falktx | ScottL: ailo: btw, we (team) have a mailing list, so it would be nice for you to join (https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/ -> bottom left) | 02:53 |
| ailo | falktx: I see you've started packaging for Natty. | 02:59 |
| falktx | ailo: yes, but it has some issues | 02:59 |
| falktx | ailo: python and fltk packages FTBFS | 03:00 |
| ailo | New versions? | 03:00 |
| falktx | ailo: not sure for fltk, but python error come from ubuntu | 03:01 |
| falktx | heh, in liquorix changelog -> "remove cfs-low-latency features - performs worse with 2.6.37 backports" | 03:01 |
| ailo | ? | 03:01 |
| ailo | falktx: Do you compile kernels at any point? You seem to be pretty busy otherwise. | 03:02 |
| falktx | ailo: no, I only compiled a kernel once | 03:02 |
| falktx | ailo: I'm busy with learning new code, and making "cadence" (that new tool) | 03:03 |
| falktx | ailo: i take some time sometime I package backports now | 03:03 |
| falktx | err, one "I" by mistake | 03:03 |
| falktx | hm, I need to sleep | 03:04 |
| ailo | Good night. | 03:04 |
| falktx | ailo: not yet | 03:04 |
| falktx | i said I needed to sleep, not that I was going to.. heeh | 03:05 |
| ailo | Well, let us all know when you will :) | 03:05 |
| falktx | sure | 03:06 |
| falktx | :) | 03:06 |
| falktx | ailo: I'm finishing the import of the liquorix kernel | 03:06 |
| falktx | arr, damn, failed | 03:09 |
| ailo | falktx: It will lack some Ubuntu stuff, right? What is the diff? | 03:09 |
| falktx | ailo: my internet sucks, so I was viewing it through SSH | 03:10 |
| falktx | ailo: but I noticed a lot of patches | 03:10 |
| falktx | it seems like cfs and bfs enabled | 03:10 |
| falktx | cgroups too | 03:11 |
| paultag | ScottL: I'm here to get dirty, man. | 03:12 |
| paultag | RE make progress ( and so on ) | 03:12 |
| ailo | falktx: I think it's this that would have caused no realtime: # CONFIG_BLK_CGROUP is not set | 03:15 |
| ailo | No, sorry | 03:16 |
| ailo | falktx: # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set | 03:16 |
| falktx | ailo: I'm not the best guy for these kind of questions... | 03:19 |
| falktx | ailo: and I already closed SSH, so I can't check now | 03:19 |
| falktx | but... | 03:19 |
| ailo | According to jack's faq, it is (I think).. | 03:21 |
| falktx | ailo: http://liquorix.net/sources/36/ | 03:22 |
| falktx | config are there | 03:22 |
| falktx | # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set | 03:22 |
| ailo | falktx: Yeah, I looked them over a little bit. | 03:23 |
| falktx | so no realtime possible with this kernel | 03:23 |
| ailo | falktx: Isn't it the other way around? http://jackaudio.org/linux_group_sched | 03:24 |
| falktx | hm, not sure | 03:25 |
| ailo | Anyway, interesting with bfs and cfs. Seems like a lot of configs to consider, when compiling.. | 03:25 |
| ailo | falktx: Do you have a notification tray app? | 03:27 |
| ailo | Could be a good place to place the controls. | 03:27 |
| falktx | ailo: i do | 03:28 |
| falktx | ailo: you should try the code I already have, in the patchbay | 03:28 |
| falktx | ailo: so you can already try the jack-logs, jack-config and jack-render tools | 03:28 |
| ailo | paultag: What are you doing now on US? | 03:34 |
| ailo | I mean, what's your plan? | 03:34 |
| paultag | ailo: I've got no plan. I've got day-to-day stuff with Ubuntu general, so I'm here for my 10% time, if you will | 03:35 |
| paultag | ailo: so if you have stuff hanging around, let me know and I can patch and stuff | 03:36 |
| ScottL | ailo, paultag: how much involvement do you want from me? i'm certainly not a coder | 03:36 |
| ailo | paultag: What are your thoughts about adding some system checking? | 03:36 |
| paultag | ailo: I'm all for it. If you have a list of tasks I can prototype out stuff | 03:36 |
| ailo | Maybe the notification is a good start? | 03:36 |
| paultag | ailo: sure :) | 03:37 |
| paultag | ScottL: a sepc doc would rock my socks | 03:37 |
| paultag | ScottL: I like having goals we can nail | 03:37 |
| paultag | personally | 03:37 |
| paultag | and I'm by no means driving ailo stuiff. I'm playing barback | 03:37 |
| paultag | i'm just here to help and patch :) | 03:37 |
| ailo | paultag: Did you see my script? Not very fancy, and meant for qjackctl. | 03:37 |
| paultag | ailo: yeah I saw it, great start -- IMHO it can be squashed a bit into a < 20 liner | 03:38 |
| ScottL | paultag, i thought about making a blueprint of sorts, just to spec things out, i can have it tomorrow | 03:38 |
| paultag | ailo: but I'm thinking of a login checker, not a qjackctl starter | 03:38 |
| paultag | ScottL: :) | 03:38 |
| ScottL | paultag, although you and ailo will certainly have some say in it and correct and add to to it | 03:38 |
| paultag | ScottL: sure :) | 03:39 |
| ailo | paultag: sure. I'm sure my script is nonsense, but if you can use any of it http://paste.ubuntu.com/553561/ | 03:39 |
| ailo | Or, how do you do a system-check at bootup? | 03:39 |
| * falktx checks too | 03:39 | |
| paultag | ailo: let me hack something up quickly and paste it | 03:40 |
| falktx | ailo: I personally recommend using python, if possible | 03:40 |
| paultag | falktx: overkill imho | 03:41 |
| paultag | falktx: this is just a quick check, not a fullblown app | 03:41 |
| ailo | falktx: I have just begun to learn python. I can only redo stuff right now on python. | 03:41 |
| paultag | it'd just be system calls anyway ;) | 03:41 |
| falktx | ailo: and I wish to know more C++, I start to feel python "slowlyness" on my bigger apps | 03:42 |
| ailo | At least checking if the kernel is realtime capable would be nice. How else to do that, than to check if it not named -lowlatency -rt or -realtime | 03:42 |
| paultag | ailo: that runs into issues, it's really hard to check that | 03:42 |
| falktx | uname -a | 03:43 |
| paultag | falktx: -r * | 03:43 |
| ailo | My check seems to work, though | 03:43 |
| holstein | well, after the generic one gets 'good enough' | 03:43 |
| holstein | whenever that is | 03:43 |
| holstein | it wont matter right? | 03:43 |
| falktx | paultag: yes | 03:43 |
| holstein | we just need a different kernel that vanilla for now | 03:43 |
| holstein | than* | 03:44 |
| ailo | Even with the generic working, isn't the -lowlatency to be regarded as a -generic kernel for music? | 03:44 |
| holstein | paultag: good to see you here :) | 03:44 |
| holstein | thanks for you're attention and time | 03:44 |
| falktx | ailo: on python: | 03:44 |
| falktx | rt_yesno = commans.getoutput("uname -r") | 03:44 |
| falktx | if ("-realtime" in rt_yesno or "-rt" in rt_yesno): ... | 03:44 |
| falktx | print ... | 03:45 |
| falktx | rt_yesno = commands.getoutput("uname -r") [sorry for the typo] | 03:45 |
| ailo | falktx: Seems like simpler syntax then what I was doing, but I googled to get mine :) | 03:45 |
| ailo | lowlatency_running=$(echo `expr match "$linux_version" '.*\(lowlatency\)'`) | 03:46 |
| falktx | ailo: for users could be like: | 03:46 |
| ailo | if [ $lowlatency_running = "lowlatency" ]... | 03:46 |
| falktx | audio_yesno = commands.getoutput("groups"); if ("audio" in audio_yesno): ... | 03:47 |
| paultag | guys | 03:47 |
| paultag | this is all overkill | 03:47 |
| paultag | http://pastebin.com/P5EuLZT8 | 03:47 |
| paultag | run that on login, be done with it | 03:47 |
| paultag | I've not tested that | 03:47 |
| paultag | but it looks right | 03:47 |
| paultag | Oh shucks, quotes around notify-send | 03:47 |
| falktx | paultag: yes, i got: | 03:47 |
| falktx | Invalid number of options. | 03:47 |
| falktx | hehe | 03:47 |
| paultag | http://pastebin.com/PkCbaac9 | 03:48 |
| paultag | not bad for writing it in pastebin ;) | 03:48 |
| falktx | paultag: i can do better | 03:48 |
| paultag | just run that on login ever time, have it so when you click on the notify, open software center to download the lowlag kernel | 03:48 |
| paultag | falktx: have at it. That's a 2 minute script that I wrote in a webfield | 03:49 |
| paultag | I'm saying -- python is overkill | 03:49 |
| paultag | you have to import system calls and libnotify | 03:49 |
| falktx | paultag: hm, you can use os.system | 03:51 |
| paultag | falktx: still, python is sub par -- you're pulling up a VM to do system calls, and regex parsing when it can be done in bash with a one-liner | 03:52 |
| paultag | falktx: python is good for complex stuff -- not for checking a kernel version | 03:52 |
| ailo | paultag: It's not working right. No errors, so maybe the variable matching is not working right? | 03:52 |
| paultag | ailo: I tested it, try overriding RELEASE to a ll string | 03:52 |
| paultag | ailo: it's all working, and should handle hand-rolled kernels with a good name | 03:53 |
| ailo | This is the name of lowlatency: 2.6.37-11-lowlatency | 03:53 |
| paultag | falktx: I'd use python if we needed floating point math for a multi-agent system with talking threads | 03:53 |
| paultag | ailo: so set RELEASE="2.6.37-11-lowlatency" | 03:53 |
| falktx | ... | 03:53 |
| paultag | ailo: after the uname call, it handles it fine :) | 03:54 |
| ailo | paultag: Yeah, but we don't want to use the numbers to do the match, right? | 03:54 |
| paultag | ailo: nope. It just uses a grep | 03:54 |
| ailo | My way only checks for the name "lowlatency" | 03:54 |
| paultag | ailo: keep it simple ;) | 03:54 |
| falktx | err, anyway, http://pastebin.com/AVchBVi3 | 03:54 |
| paultag | falktx: I mean, yeah -- but that's just wrapping bash calls | 03:55 |
| falktx | i know, it's bad | 03:55 |
| paultag | :) | 03:55 |
| paultag | if it works, it works | 03:55 |
| paultag | ailo: do you see what it's doing? | 03:56 |
| paultag | good 'nuf for goverment work ;) | 03:56 |
| falktx | time to go, bye eveyone! | 03:56 |
| paultag | falktx: cheers! | 03:56 |
| ailo | paultag: I added my way to it http://pastebin.com/HTwaQjNw | 03:56 |
| paultag | ailo: $linux_version is undefined | 03:57 |
| ailo | It will work regardless of the version number. | 03:57 |
| paultag | ailo: might want to put a uname -r in there | 03:57 |
| paultag | ailo: and my way will work just as well -- remember it uses grep | 03:57 |
| ailo | Ah, sorry | 03:58 |
| paultag | ;) | 03:58 |
| ailo | Ah, forget it. I'm too tired. But still, don't we need that, in case of upgrades? | 04:00 |
| paultag | ailo: upgrades don't matter to us :) | 04:01 |
| paultag | ailo: as long as the kernel has that string in it, we're fine | 04:01 |
| paultag | ailo: if the kernel has generic, we'll complain again | 04:01 |
| ailo | paultag: Yeah, that's what I mean. | 04:01 |
| paultag | ailo: give it some testcases :) | 04:02 |
| ailo | paultag: I would like to give it some time tomorrow and look it over. | 04:02 |
| paultag | ailo: rock on dude. I'll be online for a little while. That's nothing good or anything, just some crap I mocked up to prove a point -- no python needed ;) | 04:03 |
| paultag | ailo: I'll watch email, too -- my irc nick @ ubuntu | 04:03 |
| ailo | paultag: thanks! I'll be around. | 04:04 |
| paultag | ailo: rock on! | 04:04 |
| ScottL | paultag, it's not only cool that you are helping get stuff done but also that you share knowledge as well! | 04:47 |
| paultag | ScottL: thanks dude, I'm one of the founding members of the Ubuntu Beginners Team -- been helping beginners with Ubuntu since 2007 | 04:52 |
| paultag | ScottL: it's just how I roll at this point ;) | 04:52 |
| paultag | not that I have anyting special to impart, really | 04:54 |
| ScottL | good morning abogani | 11:41 |
| ScottL | i saw your comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/695892 | 11:42 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 695892 in Ubuntu Studio "no live CD for ubuntustudio" [Wishlist,New] | 11:42 |
| ScottL | do you know how to make a live cd/dcd within the buildd system? | 11:42 |
| ScottL | hi rlameiro | 12:01 |
| * ScottL is going back to bed now the he let the puppies out to do their "business" | 12:01 | |
| rlameiro | lol | 12:01 |
| rlameiro | ScottL, have a good night then :D | 12:02 |
| rlameiro | abogani, hey man:D | 12:06 |
| rlameiro | how are you? | 12:06 |
| rlameiro | are you doing some stuff with arduinno lately? | 12:06 |
| abogani | ScottL: Good morning! | 12:54 |
| abogani | ScottL: Really I don't know. I made some livecds but not within buildd infrastructure... | 12:54 |
| * abogani waves all! | 12:57 | |
| tanders12 | abogani; Hey could I ask a question? | 14:14 |
| paultag | !ask | tanders12 | 14:22 |
| ubottu | tanders12: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) | 14:22 |
| paultag | ;) | 14:22 |
| paultag | Wow, that's much more rude the ours in ubt | 14:22 |
| abogani | tanders12: Yes | 14:31 |
| ailo | paultag: I was thinking more about the notification script. Suppose someone builds their own -rt kernel. What should decide the user is running the wrong kernel? | 14:35 |
| ailo | abogani: I suspect kernel 2.6.38 is to be in Natty, right? They are talking about a fix to solve realtime. Do you know anything about that? | 14:37 |
| tanders12 | ;) | 14:37 |
| tanders12 | sorry i just woke up | 14:38 |
| abogani | ailo: No. | 14:39 |
| tanders12 | abogani: are there known issues with running your natty kernels on maverick, other than networking? | 14:39 |
| abogani | tanders12: No but you have to update it manually. | 14:41 |
| abogani | ailo: ping | 14:42 |
| ailo | abogani: I'm still new to irq. What's a ping? :) | 14:43 |
| abogani | ailo: It's a way to call you. And you should reply "pong" | 14:43 |
| ailo | abogani: I will have to remember that ;) | 14:44 |
| abogani | ailo: Any realtime kernel (so also which are self-compiled) create a new file in proc so called (please check) /proc/loadavg_rt So if this file exist the running kernel is realtime. | 14:45 |
| abogani | Something similar to [ -e /proc/loadavg_rt ] | 14:46 |
| ailo | abogani: Thanks. That should take care of self compiled kernels, no matter what they are called then. | 14:47 |
| paultag | ailo: the name, for now | 14:47 |
| paultag | ailo: if someone can compile a kernel, they can read the docs on disabling the script | 14:47 |
| paultag | ailo: :) | 14:47 |
| paultag | ailo: since all this is compiled in, there's no good way to test this externally | 14:47 |
| paultag | ailo: unless there's a flag in proc or something, but I doubt it | 14:47 |
| tanders12 | abogani: ah ok thanks. also, is it normal for the had .deb's to not install due to dependencies? | 14:50 |
| paultag | ailo: picking up what I'm putting down? | 14:50 |
| ailo | paultag: Sure | 14:50 |
| paultag | awesome | 14:50 |
| paultag | abogani: realtime != lowlatency | 14:51 |
| paultag | I missed your lines, there | 14:51 |
| abogani | paultag: ? | 14:51 |
| abogani | tanders12: Because missing debs are in official Natty archives. | 14:52 |
| paultag | abogani: the realtime patch is not the same as the lowlatency flag | 14:52 |
| abogani | paultag: So? | 14:52 |
| paultag | abogani: /proc/loadavg_rt does not matter for what ailo is doing ;) | 14:52 |
| ailo | paultag: I suppose, even if there is a fix to the generic kernel, I gues it won't hurt for us to recommend the -lowlatency, but we could also make sure it doesn't notify for -rt kernels | 14:53 |
| paultag | ailo: Yeah, I s'pose. RT has a lot of issues IMHO | 14:53 |
| paultag | it's quite buggy and can lead to deadlock pretty darn quick | 14:53 |
| ailo | paultag: I suppose, but then it is not by our choice, anyway. | 14:54 |
| paultag | ailo: truth | 14:54 |
| abogani | If ailo calls lowlatency kernel "realtime" it isn't my fault. | 14:56 |
| paultag | abogani: I'm not accusing you of anything | 14:56 |
| abogani | :-) | 14:56 |
| paultag | :) | 14:56 |
| ScottL | can someone look at this error? http://paste.ubuntu.com/554031/ | 14:57 |
| ScottL | it's for this code: http://paste.ubuntu.com/554033/ | 14:57 |
| * abogani is also suspecting that here there is a term misuse of "Irqs conflicts"... | 14:57 | |
| paultag | abogani: I wrote a kerenel from scratch, I know how one uses an IRQ line ;) | 14:58 |
| paultag | ScottL: #!/bin/bash | 14:58 |
| paultag | ScottL: you have ##!/bin/bash, so it fails to find it as a script, since the magic bits are blown | 14:58 |
| paultag | sh * | 14:59 |
| ailo | How about making sure -lowlatency is the default kernel? | 15:02 |
| paultag | ailo: we can add it as a dependency on the metapackage, in theory | 15:03 |
| paultag | ailo: or we could just not make it default | 15:04 |
| paultag | ailo: people might use studio for GIMP work, or video production and not need the lowlag kerenl | 15:04 |
| paultag | kernel | 15:04 |
| ailo | paultag: Seems like we are installing from PPA, and we haven't decided how to do that yet. | 15:04 |
| paultag | We could just bitch on login in a passive-aggressive way | 15:04 |
| paultag | ailo: Oh, aye. Yup. | 15:04 |
| ailo | paultag: Seems like a good kernel for most things, though I suppose it should only be a dependency for audio-meta-packages. | 15:06 |
| ailo | Is it totally wrong to put the PPA stuff into a meta-package installation? | 15:07 |
| paultag | ailo: aye. I mean, it's against policy to mark something as a dependency if it's really not | 15:07 |
| paultag | ailo: humm. Not sure | 15:07 |
| paultag | ailo: if done right, I can't imagine that it's horrid, but perhaps frowned upon | 15:07 |
| paultag | ailo: it would have to be part of the serving-suggestion package | 15:07 |
| ailo | paultag: Don't you think we should consider -lowlatency a dependency for audio work? I really think it's needed, at least now. | 15:08 |
| paultag | ailo: yes, I'd agree -- but IMHO just for the audio et | 15:08 |
| paultag | set * | 15:08 |
| ailo | ScottL: What do you think? Alessios PPA, and installing from it into a meta-package? | 15:10 |
| paultag | ailo: the only way that'd be OK is if an ubuntu studio team only had upload rights to the PPA | 15:10 |
| paultag | otherwise you're giving upload rights to someone without any | 15:10 |
| ailo | paultag: I see | 15:11 |
| paultag | ailo: ( someone could upload bash with hacks in it, and klobber all the machines on an overriden ppa upload ) | 15:11 |
| ailo | paultag: But if it is presented as an option during install? | 15:11 |
| paultag | ailo: we could have a help page and suggest PPAs, but there's no way we can do that undercover | 15:12 |
| ailo | paultag: One suggestion was to add that to the Ubuntustudio-controls. | 15:12 |
| paultag | +1 there | 15:12 |
| ailo | Maybe it's enough to have info on the Desktop on how to get started with audio, and let Ubuntustudio-controls handle -lowlatency install and adding user to audio group, then? | 15:13 |
| ailo | ScottL had an idea about a script starting at first boot into the system. Maybe that is even better? | 15:14 |
| paultag | ailo: yeah, but most people want to dig right into their system | 15:14 |
| paultag | ailo: so they might close out and not read it, then be fuxed | 15:14 |
| ailo | paultag: Yeah, people like to try first | 15:15 |
| paultag | ailo: perhaps have a popup notify, and have it clickable -- when you click, open the helper | 15:15 |
| ailo | paultag: I like that. | 15:15 |
| paultag | awesome. | 15:16 |
| ailo | We still don't have anyone working on the controls. falktx offered to help, but decided to do his own thing. | 15:16 |
| paultag | humm | 15:17 |
| tanders12 | controls for what? | 15:17 |
| ailo | I was supposed to try it, and I still can. I might need some help, though. | 15:17 |
| paultag | ailo: is there any old code hanging around? | 15:17 |
| paultag | ailo: I can help | 15:17 |
| paultag | tanders12: no clue, tbh. My guess is the random crap that we all know but is not documented anywhere | 15:17 |
| ailo | paultag: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/ubuntustudio-controls/0.4.7 | 15:18 |
| paultag | ailo: awesome, thanks | 15:18 |
| tanders12 | lol, you mean the random crap i spent the last month of my life learning? | 15:18 |
| paultag | guess so ;) | 15:18 |
| ailo | tanders12: Ubuntustudio-controls. The app, that used to fix firewire and set memlock and audio prio | 15:18 |
| tanders12 | k thats what i thought | 15:18 |
| tanders12 | whats the gui written in (no time to check right now)? | 15:19 |
| paultag | ScottL: did that work? | 15:19 |
| paultag | tanders12: my guess, knowing freetards -- gtk and python | 15:19 |
| paultag | checking it out now to find the vcs, give me a moment | 15:19 |
| tanders12 | paultag: yeah prollly | 15:20 |
| tanders12 | not like it matters, i have no gui experience | 15:20 |
| paultag | https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls | 15:20 |
| tanders12 | might be fun to look at tho | 15:20 |
| paultag | YES! Called it! | 15:20 |
| tanders12 | ^^ | 15:20 |
| paultag | ailo: code looks sane | 15:21 |
| tanders12 | well i gtg. working on half a dozen things today but maybe ill take an hour and see if i can fiddle with the controls too | 15:21 |
| paultag | tanders12: :) | 15:21 |
| ailo | paultag: For someone experienced, doesn't seem like too much work, right? | 15:22 |
| tanders12 | paultag: lemme know if you get anywhere with it | 15:22 |
| paultag | ailo: christ no -- should be easy enough -- code looks easy to hack out, and it uses Glade 3 | 15:22 |
| paultag | life's grand | 15:22 |
| paultag | tanders12: sure thing | 15:22 |
| ailo | paultag: We really don't need so much. But, maybe we need to change the program so it runs in user mode. | 15:23 |
| ailo | paultag: So we can let the user add itself to audio group | 15:23 |
| paultag | ailo: yeah, it would be nice to bump up with gksudo only when you need it | 15:23 |
| ailo | We don't really need anything more than, add user to audio group, and install -lowlatency, as basic needs | 15:24 |
| paultag | ailo: aye. It looks pretty good from my brief lookover | 15:24 |
| ailo | Then, of course one can always add all kinds of features | 15:24 |
| paultag | ailo: some bits could use a clean, but overall solid | 15:24 |
| paultag | I'd work from that, no need for a rewrite or anything, which is nice | 15:25 |
| ailo | paultag: So, you want to do that, or should I start doing something? | 15:25 |
| paultag | ailo: why don't you wind up on it, you have a really great vision for it | 15:26 |
| paultag | ailo: if you need help, I can help out however you need me | 15:26 |
| paultag | ailo: I'm just here to back you up | 15:26 |
| ailo | paultag: Ok. I suspect we have until some time in February. Should be no problem. | 15:26 |
| paultag | yessir! | 15:26 |
| paultag | ailo: btw, I don't think we officially met -- I'm Paul Tagliamonte :) | 15:28 |
| paultag | I'm pretty new around these parts | 15:28 |
| ailo | paultag: I'm Kaj Ailomaa. https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at . Musician, living in Sweden. | 15:32 |
| paultag | http://launchpad.net/~paultag here | 15:33 |
| paultag | ailo: well met :) | 15:33 |
| ailo | paultag: Nice to meet you to :) | 15:33 |
| paultag | ailo: what do you play? | 15:34 |
| paultag | P.S. you should totally buy the domain ailo.at | 15:37 |
| ScottL | sorry, family woke up and belam ensued | 15:40 |
| ScottL | ah! thanks paultag, that's quite embarrassing actually | 15:41 |
| paultag | ScottL: nah! not at all! | 15:41 |
| paultag | ScottL: it's not clear unless you know the underlying crap | 15:42 |
| ScottL | paultag, ah, but i do know enough that it should have been a single # | 15:43 |
| ScottL | i misrepresent myself slightly, i have done programming before, in basic, fortran, pascal, AutoLISP, but these where twenty years ago | 15:44 |
| ScottL | s/where/were | 15:44 |
| paultag | :) | 15:44 |
| ScottL | we promised my daughter that we would take her to see the Disney movie Tangled, so i'll be out of the house for several hours and i really wanted to work on this script more :/ | 15:45 |
| paultag | ScottL: it can wait -- family first, dude | 15:45 |
| ScottL | however, i should be able to get it this afternoon/evening, along with some specs for the -controls | 15:46 |
| paultag | ScottL: the little things will be the big things, man | 15:46 |
| paultag | :) | 15:46 |
| paultag | ScottL: great! ttyl :)F | 15:46 |
| paultag | :) * | 15:46 |
| * ScottL managed to fix the '##' and start the package building with pbuilder before leaving :) | 16:05 | |
| paultag | :) | 16:13 |
| paultag | ScottL: let me know if it still FTBFS | 16:13 |
| paultag | or fails to install, whavever the issue was ;) | 16:13 |
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