[01:19] <falktx> ScottL: i'm back, do you have some time now?
[01:19] <falktx> I started working on the new -controls thing
[01:26] <ailo> falktx: There was some discussion earlier about how to implement installing a new kernel and adding user to audio group.
[01:26] <falktx> ailo: oh, cool
[01:26] <ailo> One of the ideas was to implement it into the installation of Ubuntustudio, or Ubuntustudio packages
[01:27] <ailo> How far did you come on the controls?
[01:27] <falktx> hm, kernel might work, but not sure how to add a user to audio if running as root (no way to tell which is the current user)
[01:28] <falktx> ailo: well, for that, I have good news and bad news
[01:28] <falktx> ailo: which first?
[01:28] <ailo> I don't judge.
[01:28] <falktx> you may consider both good news, not sure
[01:28] <falktx> let me make some screenshots
[01:30] <rlameiro> are you making the controls in Qt?
[01:30] <falktx> rlameiro: yes
[01:30] <falktx> kinda
[01:30] <rlameiro> hummm well, it easier :D
[01:30] <falktx> rlameiro: do you know about my patchbay project ?
[01:30] <rlameiro> klaudia?
[01:31] <rlameiro> I can try to help you on the controls..
[01:31] <rlameiro> I did ported it to gtkbuilder
[01:31] <rlameiro> from glade
[01:32] <falktx> rlameiro: i prefer to start from scratch
[01:32] <falktx> rlameiro: ailo: recent screenshot of my patchbay app -> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr105.jpg
[01:32] <rlameiro> falktx: yeah, of course
[01:33] <rlameiro> but you can take ideas from the project already done
[01:33] <falktx> rlameiro: yes
[01:33] <falktx> so let's start with the good news
[01:33] <ailo> falktx: I saw it before. Looks nice.
[01:33] <rlameiro> nice!!!!
[01:33] <falktx> this is the good news:
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr103.jpg
[01:34] <rlameiro> it looks a mix of patchage with controls :D
[01:34] <falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr104.jpg
[01:34] <falktx> rlameiro: ailo: ^ this is my version of -controls, that is not mockup, but the start of the app design
[01:34] <rlameiro> That is more or less my first idea :D
[01:35] <ailo> falktx: Looks nice
[01:36] <falktx> now the "bad" news
[01:36] <rlameiro> :(
[01:36] <falktx> it won't be part of UbuntuStudio
[01:36] <rlameiro> why?
[01:36] <rlameiro> because its Qt?
[01:36] <falktx> I'll develop to continue my idea of the next kxstudio
[01:37] <falktx> this app will integrate into my other app, like the patchbay, in a all-in-one jack solution
[01:37] <falktx> I already have the patchbay, a jack-logs viewer, jack-render app, and a gui to configure jack
[01:38] <ailo> falktx: How about making a simplified version for Ubuntustudio?
[01:38] <falktx> If I join some work I've already done for kxstudio, I'm guessing the app will be very cool
[01:38] <falktx> ailo: my plan is to create an app that will work on any distro, any version of linux
[01:38] <ailo> ok
[01:39] <rlameiro> yea
[01:39] <rlameiro> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr102.jpg
[01:39] <falktx> ailo: If I worked close to US, than only ubuntu would benefit from it
[01:39] <rlameiro> here is stated "linux distributiono" bla bla bla
[01:39] <rlameiro> soo its made thinking on that :D
[01:39] <falktx> yes
[01:39] <rlameiro> falktx: not necessarily
[01:40] <rlameiro> it your software 
[01:40] <falktx> ailo: all my code is gpl, and all the modules are in different files, so it will be very easy to implement them on new apps
[01:40] <rlameiro> Also diferent distro have diferent place to setup stuff, so everyone would need to adapt it to each distro
[01:40] <falktx> rlameiro: that's where it comes in
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: I already have a team setup to help in this
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: first step is to handle jack properly in all DEs (mostly gnome, kde and xcfe)
[01:41] <rlameiro> Qt works well
[01:41] <falktx> rlameiro: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/
[01:42] <rlameiro> is that an invite? falktx ?
[01:42] <falktx> rlameiro: just say 'yes' if you wanna join
[01:42] <rlameiro> yes
[01:42] <rlameiro> :)
[01:42] <rlameiro> lol
[01:42] <falktx> rlameiro: give me the link to your launchpad page
[01:42] <rlameiro> everything for the good to the community
[01:43] <rlameiro> https://launchpad.net/~rlameiro
[01:45] <falktx> rlameiro: done, you're on the team now
[01:45] <rlameiro> :)
[01:45] <falktx> rlameiro: I'll publish some docs about the team tasks soon... ;)
[01:46] <rlameiro> ok
[01:46] <falktx> rlameiro: afaik, everytime I do a package upload, you'll get a mail about it
[01:46] <rlameiro> falktx: take in mind that my main task on US is testing...
[01:46] <rlameiro> I am on the process of learning C and python
[01:47] <rlameiro> and also playing around with ARM
[01:47] <falktx> rlameiro: don't worry, I plan to do most of the work
[01:47] <rlameiro> lol
[01:47] <ailo> falktx: Is there some place where one can see what you are planning to do?
[01:47] <falktx> rlameiro: but AutoStatic joined the team too, so he will help in packaging too
[01:47] <rlameiro> falktx: you should make an Amazon wishlist dude
[01:47] <holstein> i get emails when falktx is hard at work 
[01:48] <holstein> package updates :)
[01:48] <falktx> hehe, sorry for that holstein
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: no, i like it
[01:48] <falktx> holstein: did you get the new ones about patchage, raul, etc?
[01:48] <rlameiro> well, then we need to clarify what is needed for the new Studio controls 
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: i think so
[01:48] <holstein> falktx: they just kinda go by
[01:48] <rlameiro> at least for now...
[01:48] <falktx> ailo: rlameiro: this is an old doc I made some time ago - http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/KXStudio-Team.odt (outdated!)
[01:48] <holstein> and im starting to know what the packages are
[01:48] <holstein> and what they do
[01:50] <ailo> falktx: office document? Was empty.
[01:50] <falktx> ailo: no, it's not...
[01:50] <falktx> ailo: i just opened it
[01:51] <holstein> yeah
[01:51] <holstein> ailo: you trying OO.o ?
[01:52] <ailo> hostein: I think its' firefox 4 on Natty. It won't open magnet links either. I have to download files before I can open them. Same thing here.
[01:52] <holstein> yeah, plausible
[01:52] <holstein> FF4 is nice though
[01:52] <rlameiro> very nice 
[01:52] <holstein> faster again
[01:52] <rlameiro> falktx: what control modules do you have?
[01:52] <rlameiro> maybe i can hack something for natty...
[01:52] <falktx> holstein: lol, you remind me of mythbusters...
[01:53] <holstein> ;)
[01:53] <falktx> rlameiro: right now (the code already done or that I can copy) is...
[01:53] <falktx> jack-config
[01:53] <falktx> jack-logs
[01:53] <falktx> jack-patchbay
[01:53] <falktx> audio-plugins-path
[01:53] <falktx> default-applications
[01:54] <falktx> user-groups
[01:54] <falktx> firewire/ hpet, rtc permissions
[01:54] <falktx> hm...
[01:54] <ScottL> falktx, yes i have time :)
[01:54] <ailo> falktx: I was told you were doing something unifying. (I would like to help in that respect.)
[01:54] <falktx> ScottL: oh, please read backlog
[01:55] <rlameiro> ok, so maybe i will need is the jack config ans the firewire  and hpet etc...
[01:55] <falktx> ailo: "unifying" ?
[01:55] <ailo> Not distro dependant.
[01:55] <rlameiro> unificador falktx 
[01:55] <falktx> rlameiro: one hany thing not done yet is wine/wineasio stuff
[01:56] <falktx> ailo: yes, the document clears a few things
[01:56] <rlameiro> falktx: no problem, i dont think it is a very important
[01:56] <rlameiro> if it is ppa based you can roll out updates easily
[01:56] <falktx> rlameiro: I want to make it compatible with winetricks, so that useful dlls can be easily installed
[01:57] <falktx> rlameiro: the PPA is just for packaging, I really dont want to force these new tools for ubuntu-only
[01:57] <falktx> at least they should on debian too... hehe
[01:57] <rlameiro> falktx: I am talking for testing :D
[01:58] <falktx> rlameiro: ha, yes
[01:58] <falktx> rlameiro: in fact, the new PPAs are almost ready!
[01:58] <falktx> https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa
[01:58] <ScottL> falktx, that's cool that your work on -controls won't be part of ubuntu studio
[01:59] <ScottL> falktx, i think ailo and paultag are going to make some good progress together
[01:59] <ScottL> falktx, have you made any progress on getting ladish into debian?
[02:00] <falktx> ScottL: as soon as it gets beta, I'll try to push it to debian
[02:00] <ScottL> falktx, excellent!
[02:00] <falktx> ScottL: on ladish progress, I need some help
[02:00] <ScottL> falktx, oh?  is it something quadrispro can help with?
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, i forgot i told you i would find some links for you to help get ladish into debian, i'll try to find those tonight/tomorrow morning
[02:01] <falktx> ScottL: yes
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, the debian multimedia team is really good giving feedback when you post to their git and send email to the mailing list
[02:01] <falktx> ScottL: i think I told you before, I already have the package in revu
[02:01] <ScottL> falktx, i mean they are awesome!
[02:02] <ScottL> falktx, yes, but REVU moves extremely slow compared to DMT, you will probably receive a reply email within 24 hours on the DMT mailing list
[02:02] <falktx> ScottL: yep, I think I'll never use revu again
[02:03] <ScottL> falktx, i can only surmise that it works for *something*, but apparently not very well for audio centric packages
[02:03] <ailo> What's the deal with debian. Abstractions (tasksels and settings) stay in Ubuntu, but all the individual packages go to Debian?
[02:04] <ScottL> ailo, no, it's not really a hard, fast rule...at least for audio packages
[02:04] <ScottL> it's more a logistical consideration
[02:04] <rlameiro> time to sleep
[02:04] <rlameiro> cya tomorrow
[02:04] <ScottL> they have mad packages and developers who work packages super aggresively and rapidly
[02:04] <ScottL> goodnight rlameiro 
[02:05] <ScottL> s/packages/packagers
[02:05] <ScottL> ailo, and they have quite a number of packagers/developers as well
[02:05] <ScottL> and by "they" i mean the debian multimedia team (DMT)
[02:05] <ailo> So, you guys don't think you'll move to Debian entirely with time?
[02:06] <ScottL> ailo, one last thing: every release, all packages that are not in ubuntu will sync automatically from debian into ubuntu
[02:06] <ScottL> ailo, re: move to debian, i suppose it's a possibility :/ 
[02:07] <ScottL> ailo, and i suppose it depends on which direction shuttleworth keeps pushing ubuntu and whether it's more direct or less troublesome with debian (?)
[02:07] <ailo> ScottL: I don't suppose Ubuntu will become too one-minded?
[02:08] <ScottL> ailo, i consider it a real possibility within several releases
[02:08] <ailo> Debian seems like a safe haven.
[02:08] <falktx> ubuntu likes to break the rules
[02:08] <falktx> debian/rules, hehe
[02:09] <ScottL> i think mark wants to make something _different_ than other linux distros, to stand apart from the others, and directed toward the masses
[02:09] <falktx> ScottL: i think mark just wants to imitate Mac
[02:09] <ailo> ScottL: That seems to have been one of its strengths. Now perhaps Ubuntu is movin towards tablets.
[02:09] <ScottL> eh, i'm not that sure about that, but i could be wrong falktx 
[02:10] <falktx> ScottL: he, the notify-osd, globalmenu, and bunch of other stuff that are just ripped off mac's
[02:10] <ailo> But Ubuntu should make two flavors, classic and new
[02:10] <ScottL> ailo, but i think they will still offer a desktop release, but it may be buried under layers of "improvements" as to be very difficult to make an audio distro
[02:11] <falktx> ailo: from time to time I began to feel the need to look for other distros
[02:11] <falktx> but the PPAs are just the greatest thing...
[02:11] <ScottL> but to be forthcoming, fixing unity xsession really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal at this time
[02:12] <ailo> ScottL: falktx: Audio devs need to have a common face and a common goal on the basic system.
[02:12] <ScottL> mark has done a lot of things different, launchpad instead of a normal git repo, not contributing to kernel, gnome as much, unity and wayland vs gnome
[02:12] <ScottL> i really doubt he'll simply copy the mac
[02:13] <ScottL> ailo, that would really help audio work i believe
[02:13] <falktx> hm...
[02:13] <ailo> Ubuntu is big, so a unified kernel would not be bad
[02:14] <ailo> Who is talking with the linux kernel devs about audio issues?
[02:14] <ScottL> i fully believe we will get the -lowlatency kernel into the repositories, just may be in natty+1
[02:14] <ScottL> ailo, i believe abogani keeps up with upstream
[02:15] <ScottL> i don't know how much "discourse" occurs, he may only read posts and mailing lists
[02:15] <ScottL> ailo, what would you like to see different in the kernel for audio?
[02:16] <ailo> Just thinking about this cgroups thing
[02:16] <ailo> No one was prepared
[02:17] <ailo> It could be good to have an alternative kernel in the repo (or a couple) and let distros be based outside of Ubuntu.
[02:18] <ailo> So, the kernel syncs with all the other system stuff, like graphic drivers (don't know so much, other than that there have been problems in the past).
[02:18] <ailo> The -lowlatency is gold
[02:18] <ailo> An -rt kernel on top of that would be platinum
[02:19] <ailo> Debian seems to be the place for software packages
[02:19] <ailo> Maybe desktop setups is a place for PPA's?
[02:20] <ailo> (I mean PPA's being the place for Desktop Setups)
[02:20] <ailo> Puredune, Tango Studio, KXStudio, Ubuntustudio... same kernel, but different settings
[02:20] <ailo> Might as well be
[02:22] <ailo> What is the best strategy for the future? 
[02:22] <ailo> After putting all packages into Debian, the move to Debian won't be so difficult.
[02:22] <ailo> If needed
[02:24] <falktx> ailo: have you heard of the new kernel-for-multimedia thing? 
[02:24] <ailo> No
[02:24]  * holstein reading about http://liquorix.net/
[02:26] <falktx> ailo: ha, holstein got it, http://liquorix.net/
[02:26] <ailo> falktx: I did read about it at one time
[02:27] <ailo> falktx: How does it work with Ubuntu?
[02:27] <holstein> falktx: OH, i thought you had a different project to link :)
[02:27] <holstein> i wouldnt have stolen it from you
[02:28] <holstein> i was just literally reading about that in the browser
[02:28] <ailo> Debian sid, aha
[02:29] <ailo> And arch..
[02:29] <falktx> ailo: i can easily rebuild that stuff in PPAs
[02:29] <falktx> ailo: using the exact same configs and sources
[02:29] <falktx> anyone interested?
[02:29] <holstein> falktx: i'll try it
[02:30] <holstein> i was thinking about trying it in squeeze
[02:30] <ailo> falktx: Do you know what is the deal with that? Is it like the -lowlatency?
[02:30] <falktx> holstein: i think I'll push it to the kernel PPA
[02:30] <falktx> ailo: I have no idea...
[02:30] <ailo> I tried Debian with -rt once. Don't remember if I tried this one
[02:31] <ailo> Got kernel panic
[02:31] <ailo> It was a short marriage
[02:31] <ailo> But maybe such a project should be encouraged
[02:31] <falktx> well, I'll try to package it now!
[02:33] <ailo> falktx: How do you feel about communicating about long-term stuff with other audio distro friends?
[02:34] <falktx> ailo: i spoke with linux mint guys about making an audio distro and join with kxstudio, they rejected
[02:34] <falktx> ailo: i spoke with GMaq from avlinux too, but he's into debian
[02:34] <falktx> 64studio is dead
[02:35] <falktx> other distros are just crappy, and many stole my work (dreamstudio...)
[02:36] <falktx> the only good audio distros I see now are avlinux and kxstudio
[02:36] <falktx> no offense to US, but it's has it's issues
[02:36]  * falktx believes in honesty
[02:36] <ailo> I was pretty happy with puredyne. It's XFCE, though
[02:36] <ailo> Karmic -rt kernel
[02:36] <falktx> ailo: oh, but I consider that has "live" distro only, not really for install
[02:37] <ailo> They do install too
[02:37] <falktx> like gnuguitar ?
[02:37] <ailo> And you can have it live on usb, and still install packages, add users
[02:37] <falktx> nice
[02:37] <ailo> It's the best I've tried in that sence
[02:37] <ailo> Except for having to put up with XFCE, which is buggy on some platforms, I think
[02:38] <ailo> They had an alternative wm, nothing on, except access to a terminal, pretty much
[02:39] <ailo> To make the live-usb, you would probably need to have Karmic installed. Otherwise the script doesn't seem to work
[02:40] <ailo> falktx: How do you solve jack remembering which card is chosen after reboot?
[02:41] <falktx> ailo: jackdbus does that by default
[02:41] <falktx> ailo: but I have an option to load a specifc ladish studio at login, which also does this
[02:42] <falktx> the new GUI (-controls alternative) will also have this
[02:42] <ailo> It does? How is that started? I asked this question on lau, and some jack people didnt give me this answer, strangely enough.
[02:43] <ailo> I mean, on the previous question
[02:43] <falktx> ailo: jack is started pre-kde, before kde even starts
[02:43] <falktx> ailo: kde allows this (running scripts before kde itself)
[02:44] <ailo> I guess I should give it a try :)
[02:45] <falktx> ailo: the new app should be able to this in all DEs, not just kde
[02:45] <falktx> I hope gnome supports this
[02:45] <ScottL> i think one strong division between ubuntu and ubuntu studio is that ubuntu tends to focus on a new user experience on the desktop
[02:45] <ScottL> rather than keeping a stable base and only updating applications and providing function over form
[02:46] <ailo> falktx: I am like rlameiro, only learning to code. I know a little this and that. How could I be of help in your project?
[02:47] <falktx> ailo: looking for how to implment stuff on gnome
[02:47] <falktx> ailo: the pre-session script start for example
[02:47] <ailo> You can find me on https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at
[02:48] <ailo> I'm interested in two things. Basic system compatibility, and ease of use.
[02:48] <falktx> 24 karma
[02:48] <ailo> Yes, funny
[02:48] <falktx> ailo: so you wanna join too?
[02:48] <ailo> Sure. I am looking to get more involved.
[02:49]  * falktx has 26370 of karma
[02:49] <falktx> ailo: thanks!!
[02:49] <falktx> i love when people say things like this..!
[02:49] <ailo> I'm staying with US too, though, at least for this release. I am doing mostly testing, and finding results.
[02:50] <falktx> ailo: to be honest...
[02:50] <falktx> ailo: I hope to drop kxstudio soon and help US instead
[02:50] <falktx> this is a nice way to move users, without loosing anything
[02:52] <ailo> Well, I'm just looking to get involved, as I said.
[02:52] <falktx> well, I appreciate
[02:53] <falktx> ScottL: ailo: btw, we (team) have a mailing list, so it would be nice for you to join (https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/ -> bottom left)
[02:59] <ailo> falktx: I see you've started packaging for Natty.
[02:59] <falktx> ailo: yes, but it has some issues
[03:00] <falktx> ailo: python and fltk packages FTBFS
[03:00] <ailo> New versions?
[03:01] <falktx> ailo: not sure for fltk, but python error come from ubuntu
[03:01] <falktx> heh, in liquorix changelog -> "remove cfs-low-latency features - performs worse with 2.6.37 backports"
[03:01] <ailo> ?
[03:02] <ailo> falktx: Do you compile kernels at any point? You seem to be pretty busy otherwise.
[03:02] <falktx> ailo: no, I only compiled a kernel once
[03:03] <falktx> ailo: I'm busy with learning new code, and making "cadence" (that new tool)
[03:03] <falktx> ailo: i take some time sometime I package backports now
[03:03] <falktx> err, one "I" by mistake
[03:04] <falktx> hm, I need to sleep
[03:04] <ailo> Good night.
[03:04] <falktx> ailo: not yet
[03:05] <falktx> i said I needed to sleep, not that I was going to.. heeh
[03:05] <ailo> Well, let us all know when you will :)
[03:06] <falktx> sure
[03:06] <falktx> :)
[03:06] <falktx> ailo: I'm finishing the import of the liquorix kernel
[03:09] <falktx> arr, damn, failed
[03:09] <ailo> falktx: It will lack some Ubuntu stuff, right? What is the diff?
[03:10] <falktx> ailo: my internet sucks, so I was viewing it through SSH
[03:10] <falktx> ailo: but I noticed a lot of patches
[03:10] <falktx> it seems like cfs and bfs enabled
[03:11] <falktx> cgroups too
[03:12] <paultag> ScottL: I'm here to get dirty, man.
[03:12] <paultag> RE make progress ( and so on )
[03:15] <ailo> falktx: I think it's this that would have caused no realtime: # CONFIG_BLK_CGROUP is not set
[03:16] <ailo> No, sorry
[03:16] <ailo> falktx: # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set
[03:19] <falktx> ailo: I'm not the best guy for these kind of questions...
[03:19] <falktx> ailo: and I already closed SSH, so I can't check now
[03:19] <falktx> but...
[03:21] <ailo> According to jack's faq, it is (I think)..
[03:22] <falktx> ailo: http://liquorix.net/sources/36/
[03:22] <falktx> config are there
[03:22] <falktx> # CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED is not set
[03:23] <ailo> falktx: Yeah, I looked them over a little bit.
[03:23] <falktx> so no realtime possible with this kernel
[03:24] <ailo> falktx: Isn't it the other way around? http://jackaudio.org/linux_group_sched
[03:25] <falktx> hm, not sure
[03:25] <ailo> Anyway, interesting with bfs and cfs. Seems like a lot of configs to consider, when compiling..
[03:27] <ailo> falktx: Do you have a notification tray app?
[03:27] <ailo> Could be a good place to place the controls.
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: i do
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: you should try the code I already have, in the patchbay
[03:28] <falktx> ailo: so you can already try the jack-logs, jack-config and jack-render tools
[03:34] <ailo> paultag: What are you doing now on US?
[03:34] <ailo> I mean, what's your plan?
[03:35] <paultag> ailo: I've got no plan. I've got day-to-day stuff with Ubuntu general, so I'm here for my 10% time, if you will
[03:36] <paultag> ailo: so if you have stuff hanging around, let me know and I can patch and stuff
[03:36] <ScottL> ailo, paultag:  how much involvement do you want from me?  i'm certainly not a coder
[03:36] <ailo> paultag: What are your thoughts about adding some system checking?
[03:36] <paultag> ailo: I'm all for it. If you have a list of tasks I can prototype out stuff
[03:36] <ailo> Maybe the notification is a good start?
[03:37] <paultag> ailo: sure :)
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: a sepc doc would rock my socks
[03:37] <paultag> ScottL: I like having goals we can nail
[03:37] <paultag> personally
[03:37] <paultag> and I'm by no means driving ailo stuiff. I'm playing barback
[03:37] <paultag> i'm just here to help and patch :)
[03:37] <ailo> paultag: Did you see my script? Not very fancy, and meant for qjackctl.
[03:38] <paultag> ailo: yeah I saw it, great start -- IMHO it can be squashed a bit into a < 20 liner
[03:38] <ScottL> paultag, i thought about making a blueprint of sorts, just to spec things out, i can have it tomorrow
[03:38] <paultag> ailo: but I'm thinking of a login checker, not a qjackctl starter
[03:38] <paultag> ScottL: :)
[03:38] <ScottL> paultag, although you and ailo will certainly have some say in it and correct and add to to it
[03:39] <paultag> ScottL: sure :)
[03:39] <ailo> paultag: sure. I'm sure my script is nonsense, but if you can use any of it http://paste.ubuntu.com/553561/
[03:39] <ailo> Or, how do you do a system-check at bootup?
[03:39]  * falktx checks too
[03:40] <paultag> ailo: let me hack something up quickly and paste it
[03:40] <falktx> ailo: I personally recommend using python, if possible
[03:41] <paultag> falktx: overkill imho
[03:41] <paultag> falktx: this is just a quick check, not a fullblown app
[03:41] <ailo> falktx: I have just begun to learn python. I can only redo stuff right now on python.
[03:41] <paultag> it'd just be system calls anyway ;)
[03:42] <falktx> ailo: and I wish to know more C++, I start to feel python "slowlyness" on my bigger apps
[03:42] <ailo> At least checking if the kernel is realtime capable would be nice. How else to do that, than to check if it not named -lowlatency -rt or -realtime
[03:42] <paultag> ailo: that runs into issues, it's really hard to check that
[03:43] <falktx> uname -a
[03:43] <paultag> falktx: -r *
[03:43] <ailo> My check seems to work, though
[03:43] <holstein> well, after the generic one gets 'good enough'
[03:43] <holstein> whenever that is
[03:43] <holstein> it wont matter right?
[03:43] <falktx> paultag: yes
[03:43] <holstein> we just need a different kernel that vanilla for now
[03:44] <holstein> than*
[03:44] <ailo> Even with the generic working, isn't the -lowlatency to be regarded as a -generic kernel for music?
[03:44] <holstein> paultag: good to see you here :)
[03:44] <holstein> thanks for you're attention and time
[03:44] <falktx> ailo: on python:
[03:44] <falktx> rt_yesno = commans.getoutput("uname -r")
[03:44] <falktx> if ("-realtime" in rt_yesno or "-rt" in rt_yesno): ...
[03:45] <falktx>   print ...
[03:45] <falktx> rt_yesno = commands.getoutput("uname -r")  [sorry for the typo]
[03:45] <ailo> falktx: Seems like simpler syntax then what I was doing, but I googled to get mine :)
[03:46] <ailo> lowlatency_running=$(echo `expr match "$linux_version" '.*\(lowlatency\)'`)
[03:46] <falktx> ailo: for users could be like:
[03:46] <ailo> if [ $lowlatency_running = "lowlatency" ]...
[03:47] <falktx> audio_yesno = commands.getoutput("groups"); if ("audio" in audio_yesno): ...
[03:47] <paultag> guys
[03:47] <paultag> this is all overkill
[03:47] <paultag> http://pastebin.com/P5EuLZT8
[03:47] <paultag> run that on login, be done with it
[03:47] <paultag> I've not tested that
[03:47] <paultag> but it looks right
[03:47] <paultag> Oh shucks, quotes around notify-send
[03:47] <falktx> paultag: yes, i got:
[03:47] <falktx> Invalid number of options.
[03:47] <falktx> hehe
[03:48] <paultag> http://pastebin.com/PkCbaac9
[03:48] <paultag> not bad for writing it in pastebin ;)
[03:48] <falktx> paultag: i can do better
[03:48] <paultag> just run that on login ever time, have it so when you click on the notify, open software center to download the lowlag kernel
[03:49] <paultag> falktx: have at it. That's a 2 minute script that I wrote in a webfield
[03:49] <paultag> I'm saying -- python is overkill
[03:49] <paultag> you have to import system calls and libnotify
[03:51] <falktx> paultag: hm, you can use os.system
[03:52] <paultag> falktx: still, python is sub par -- you're pulling up a VM to do system calls, and regex parsing when it can be done in bash with a one-liner
[03:52] <paultag> falktx: python is good for complex stuff -- not for checking a kernel version
[03:52] <ailo> paultag: It's not working right. No errors, so maybe the variable matching is not working right?
[03:52] <paultag> ailo: I tested it, try overriding RELEASE to a ll string
[03:53] <paultag> ailo: it's all working, and should handle hand-rolled kernels with a good name
[03:53] <ailo> This is the name of lowlatency: 2.6.37-11-lowlatency
[03:53] <paultag> falktx: I'd use python if we needed floating point math for a multi-agent system with talking threads
[03:53] <paultag> ailo: so set RELEASE="2.6.37-11-lowlatency"
[03:53] <falktx> ...
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: after the uname call, it handles it fine :)
[03:54] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, but we don't want to use the numbers to do the match, right?
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: nope. It just uses a grep
[03:54] <ailo> My way only checks for the name "lowlatency"
[03:54] <paultag> ailo: keep it simple ;)
[03:54] <falktx> err, anyway, http://pastebin.com/AVchBVi3
[03:55] <paultag> falktx: I mean, yeah -- but that's just wrapping bash calls
[03:55] <falktx> i know, it's bad
[03:55] <paultag> :)
[03:55] <paultag> if it works, it works
[03:56] <paultag> ailo: do you see what it's doing?
[03:56] <paultag> good 'nuf for goverment work ;)
[03:56] <falktx> time to go, bye eveyone!
[03:56] <paultag> falktx: cheers!
[03:56] <ailo> paultag: I added my way to it http://pastebin.com/HTwaQjNw
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: $linux_version is undefined
[03:57] <ailo> It will work regardless of the version number.
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: might want to put a uname -r in there
[03:57] <paultag> ailo: and my way will work just as well -- remember it uses grep
[03:58] <ailo> Ah, sorry
[03:58] <paultag> ;)
[04:00] <ailo> Ah, forget it. I'm too tired. But still, don't we need that, in case of upgrades?
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: upgrades don't matter to us :)
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: as long as the kernel has that string in it, we're fine
[04:01] <paultag> ailo: if the kernel has generic, we'll complain again
[04:01] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, that's what I mean.
[04:02] <paultag> ailo: give it some testcases :)
[04:02] <ailo> paultag: I would like to give it some time tomorrow and look it over.
[04:03] <paultag> ailo: rock on dude. I'll be online for a little while. That's nothing good or anything, just some crap I mocked up to prove a point -- no python needed ;)
[04:03] <paultag> ailo: I'll watch email, too -- my irc nick @ ubuntu
[04:04] <ailo> paultag: thanks! I'll be around.
[04:04] <paultag> ailo: rock on!
[04:47] <ScottL> paultag, it's not only cool that you are helping get stuff done but also that you share knowledge as well!
[04:52] <paultag> ScottL: thanks dude, I'm one of the founding members of the Ubuntu Beginners Team -- been helping beginners with Ubuntu since 2007 
[04:52] <paultag> ScottL: it's just how I roll at this point ;)
[04:54] <paultag> not that I have anyting special to impart, really
[11:41] <ScottL> good morning abogani
[11:42] <ScottL> i saw your comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/695892
[11:42] <ScottL> do you know how to make a live cd/dcd within the buildd system?
[12:01] <ScottL> hi rlameiro 
[12:01]  * ScottL is going back to bed now the he let the puppies out to do their "business"
[12:01] <rlameiro> lol
[12:02] <rlameiro> ScottL, have a good night then :D
[12:06] <rlameiro> abogani, hey man:D
[12:06] <rlameiro> how are you?
[12:06] <rlameiro> are you doing some stuff with arduinno lately?
[12:54] <abogani> ScottL: Good morning!
[12:54] <abogani> ScottL: Really I don't know. I made some livecds but not within buildd infrastructure...
[12:57]  * abogani waves all!
[14:14] <tanders12> abogani; Hey could I ask a question?
[14:22] <paultag> !ask | tanders12 
[14:22] <paultag> ;)
[14:22] <paultag> Wow, that's much more rude the ours in ubt
[14:31] <abogani> tanders12: Yes
[14:35] <ailo> paultag: I was thinking more about the notification script. Suppose someone builds their own -rt kernel. What should decide the user is running the wrong kernel?
[14:37] <ailo> abogani: I suspect kernel 2.6.38 is to be in Natty, right? They are talking about a fix to solve realtime. Do you know anything about that?
[14:37] <tanders12> ;)
[14:38] <tanders12> sorry i just woke up
[14:39] <abogani> ailo: No.
[14:39] <tanders12> abogani: are there known issues with running your natty kernels on maverick, other than networking?
[14:41] <abogani> tanders12: No but you have to update it manually.
[14:42] <abogani> ailo: ping
[14:43] <ailo> abogani: I'm still new to irq. What's a ping? :)
[14:43] <abogani> ailo: It's a way to call you. And you should reply "pong"
[14:44] <ailo> abogani: I will have to remember that ;)
[14:45] <abogani> ailo: Any realtime kernel (so also which are self-compiled) create a new file in proc so called (please check) /proc/loadavg_rt So if this file exist the running kernel is realtime.
[14:46] <abogani> Something similar to [ -e /proc/loadavg_rt ]
[14:47] <ailo> abogani: Thanks. That should take care of self compiled kernels, no matter what they are called then.
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: the name, for now
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: if someone can compile a kernel, they can read the docs on disabling the script
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: :)
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: since all this is compiled in, there's no good way to test this externally
[14:47] <paultag> ailo: unless there's a flag in proc or something, but I doubt it
[14:50] <tanders12> abogani: ah ok thanks. also, is it normal for the had .deb's to not install due to dependencies?
[14:50] <paultag> ailo: picking up what I'm putting down?
[14:50] <ailo> paultag: Sure
[14:50] <paultag> awesome
[14:51] <paultag> abogani: realtime != lowlatency
[14:51] <paultag> I missed your lines, there
[14:51] <abogani> paultag: ?
[14:52] <abogani> tanders12: Because missing debs are in official Natty archives.
[14:52] <paultag> abogani: the realtime patch is not the same as the lowlatency flag
[14:52] <abogani> paultag: So?
[14:52] <paultag> abogani: /proc/loadavg_rt does not matter for what ailo is doing ;)
[14:53] <ailo> paultag: I suppose, even if there is a fix to the generic kernel, I gues it won't hurt for us to recommend the -lowlatency, but we could also make sure it doesn't notify for -rt kernels
[14:53] <paultag> ailo: Yeah, I s'pose. RT has a lot of issues IMHO
[14:53] <paultag> it's quite buggy and can lead to deadlock pretty darn quick
[14:54] <ailo> paultag: I suppose, but then it is not by our choice, anyway.
[14:54] <paultag> ailo: truth
[14:56] <abogani> If ailo calls lowlatency kernel "realtime" it isn't my fault.
[14:56] <paultag> abogani: I'm not accusing you of anything
[14:56] <abogani> :-)
[14:56] <paultag> :)
[14:57] <ScottL> can someone look at this error?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/554031/
[14:57] <ScottL> it's for this code:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/554033/
[14:57]  * abogani is also suspecting that here there is a term misuse of "Irqs conflicts"...
[14:58] <paultag> abogani: I wrote a kerenel from scratch, I know how one uses an IRQ line ;)
[14:58] <paultag> ScottL: #!/bin/bash
[14:58] <paultag> ScottL: you have ##!/bin/bash, so it fails to find it as a script, since the magic bits are blown
[14:59] <paultag> sh *
[15:02] <ailo> How about making sure -lowlatency is the default kernel? 
[15:03] <paultag> ailo: we can add it as a dependency on the metapackage, in theory
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: or we could just not make it default
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: people might use studio for GIMP work, or video production and not need the lowlag kerenl
[15:04] <paultag> kernel
[15:04] <ailo> paultag: Seems like we are installing from PPA, and we haven't decided how to do that yet.
[15:04] <paultag> We could just bitch on login in a passive-aggressive way
[15:04] <paultag> ailo: Oh, aye. Yup.
[15:06] <ailo> paultag: Seems like a good kernel for most things, though I suppose it should only be a dependency for audio-meta-packages.
[15:07] <ailo> Is it totally wrong to put the PPA stuff into a meta-package installation?
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: aye. I mean, it's against policy to mark something as a dependency if it's really not
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: humm. Not sure
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: if done right, I can't imagine that it's horrid, but perhaps frowned upon
[15:07] <paultag> ailo: it would have to be part of the serving-suggestion package
[15:08] <ailo> paultag: Don't you think we should consider -lowlatency a dependency for audio work? I really think it's needed, at least now.
[15:08] <paultag> ailo: yes, I'd agree -- but IMHO just for the audio et
[15:08] <paultag> set *
[15:10] <ailo> ScottL: What do you think? Alessios PPA, and installing from it into a meta-package?
[15:10] <paultag> ailo: the only way that'd be OK is if an ubuntu studio team only had upload rights to the PPA
[15:10] <paultag> otherwise you're giving upload rights to someone without any
[15:11] <ailo> paultag: I see
[15:11] <paultag> ailo: ( someone could upload bash with hacks in it, and klobber all the machines on an overriden ppa upload )
[15:11] <ailo> paultag: But if it is presented as an option during install?
[15:12] <paultag> ailo: we could have a help page and suggest PPAs, but there's no way we can do that undercover
[15:12] <ailo> paultag: One suggestion was to add that to the Ubuntustudio-controls.
[15:12] <paultag> +1 there
[15:13] <ailo> Maybe it's enough to have info on the Desktop on how to get started with audio, and let Ubuntustudio-controls handle -lowlatency install and adding user to audio group, then?
[15:14] <ailo> ScottL had an idea about a script starting at first boot into the system. Maybe that is even better?
[15:14] <paultag> ailo: yeah, but most people want to dig right into their system
[15:14] <paultag> ailo: so they might close out and not read it, then be fuxed
[15:15] <ailo> paultag: Yeah, people like to try first
[15:15] <paultag> ailo: perhaps have a popup notify, and have it clickable -- when you click, open the helper
[15:15] <ailo> paultag: I like that.
[15:16] <paultag> awesome.
[15:16] <ailo> We still don't have anyone working on the controls. falktx offered to help, but decided to do his own thing.
[15:17] <paultag> humm
[15:17] <tanders12> controls for what?
[15:17] <ailo> I was supposed to try it, and I still can. I might need some help, though.
[15:17] <paultag> ailo: is there any old code hanging around?
[15:17] <paultag> ailo: I can help
[15:17] <paultag> tanders12: no clue, tbh. My guess is the random crap that we all know but is not documented anywhere
[15:18] <ailo> paultag: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/ubuntustudio-controls/0.4.7
[15:18] <paultag> ailo: awesome, thanks
[15:18] <tanders12> lol, you mean the random crap i spent the last month of my life learning?
[15:18] <paultag> guess so ;)
[15:18] <ailo> tanders12: Ubuntustudio-controls. The app, that used to fix firewire and set memlock and audio prio
[15:18] <tanders12> k thats what i thought
[15:19] <tanders12> whats the gui written in (no time to check right now)?
[15:19] <paultag> ScottL: did that work?
[15:19] <paultag> tanders12: my guess, knowing freetards -- gtk and python
[15:19] <paultag> checking it out now to find the vcs, give me a moment
[15:20] <tanders12> paultag: yeah prollly
[15:20] <tanders12> not like it matters, i have no gui experience
[15:20] <paultag> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-controls/ubuntustudio-controls
[15:20] <tanders12> might be fun to look at tho
[15:20] <paultag> YES! Called it!
[15:20] <tanders12> ^^
[15:21] <paultag> ailo: code looks sane 
[15:21] <tanders12> well i gtg. working on half a dozen things today but maybe ill take an hour and see if i can fiddle with the controls too
[15:21] <paultag> tanders12: :)
[15:22] <ailo> paultag: For someone experienced, doesn't seem like too much work, right?
[15:22] <tanders12> paultag: lemme know if you get anywhere with it
[15:22] <paultag> ailo: christ no -- should be easy enough -- code looks easy to hack out, and it uses Glade 3
[15:22] <paultag> life's grand
[15:22] <paultag> tanders12: sure thing
[15:23] <ailo> paultag: We really don't need so much. But, maybe we need to change the program so it runs in user mode.
[15:23] <ailo> paultag: So we can let the user add itself to audio group
[15:23] <paultag> ailo: yeah, it would be nice to bump up with gksudo only when you need it
[15:24] <ailo> We don't really need anything more than, add user to audio group, and install -lowlatency, as basic needs
[15:24] <paultag> ailo: aye. It looks pretty good from my brief lookover
[15:24] <ailo> Then, of course one can always add all kinds of features
[15:24] <paultag> ailo: some bits could use a clean, but overall solid
[15:25] <paultag> I'd work from that, no need for a rewrite or anything, which is nice
[15:25] <ailo> paultag: So, you want to do that, or should I start doing something?
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: why don't you wind up on it, you have a really great vision for it
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: if you need help, I can help out however you need me
[15:26] <paultag> ailo: I'm just here to back you up
[15:26] <ailo> paultag: Ok. I suspect we have until some time in February. Should be no problem.
[15:26] <paultag> yessir!
[15:28] <paultag> ailo: btw, I don't think we officially met -- I'm Paul Tagliamonte :)
[15:28] <paultag> I'm pretty new around these parts
[15:32] <ailo> paultag: I'm Kaj Ailomaa. https://launchpad.net/~ailo.at . Musician, living in Sweden.
[15:33] <paultag> http://launchpad.net/~paultag  here
[15:33] <paultag> ailo: well met :)
[15:33] <ailo> paultag: Nice to meet you to :)
[15:34] <paultag> ailo: what do you play?
[15:37] <paultag> P.S. you should totally buy the domain ailo.at
[15:40] <ScottL> sorry, family woke up and belam ensued
[15:41] <ScottL> ah!  thanks paultag, that's quite embarrassing actually
[15:41] <paultag> ScottL: nah! not at all!
[15:42] <paultag> ScottL: it's not clear unless you know the underlying crap
[15:43] <ScottL> paultag, ah, but i do know enough that it should have been a single #
[15:44] <ScottL> i misrepresent myself slightly, i have done programming before, in basic, fortran, pascal, AutoLISP, but these where twenty years ago
[15:44] <ScottL> s/where/were
[15:44] <paultag> :)
[15:45] <ScottL> we promised my daughter that we would take her to see the Disney movie Tangled, so i'll be out of the house for several hours and i really wanted to work on this script more :/
[15:45] <paultag> ScottL: it can wait -- family first, dude
[15:46] <ScottL> however, i should be able to get it this afternoon/evening, along with some specs for the -controls
[15:46] <paultag> ScottL: the little things will be the big things, man 
[15:46] <paultag> :)
[15:46] <paultag> ScottL: great! ttyl :)F
[15:46] <paultag> :) *
[16:05]  * ScottL managed to fix the '##' and start the package building with pbuilder before leaving :)
[16:13] <paultag> :)
[16:13] <paultag> ScottL: let me know if it still FTBFS
[16:13] <paultag> or fails to install, whavever the issue was ;)