[01:50] ugh, paultag, i get the -settings package to install properly (at least there are no errors now), but it's not setting the default xsession [01:50] i ran into a few other syntax errors but fixed those and i have also played with a few other things [01:51] i even checked a few things on the xubuntu and une -settings to verify again what i was doing [01:51] if you don't have any good suggestions then i will try to find didirocks again and ask him to look over a few things and ask him a few questions [02:17] paultag, lastly, i have even tried running the /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session command by hand in a terminal and it doesn't seem to work [02:17] * ScottL is frustrated [02:23] * holstein too [02:30] what are you frustrated about holstein ? [02:54] holstein: tried daily again and it seems to be much more stable [02:55] tanders12: cool [02:57] what are the steps you wanted me to try? [03:00] OH [03:00] tanders12: try sudo qjackctl [03:01] til you're sure JACK is working with your device [03:01] then, get the -lowlatency kernel from abogani [03:02] https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa [03:02] try it sudo again [03:02] then as normal user if that is working [03:02] then add yourself to the audio group [03:02] and run as normal user [03:39] paste.ubuntu.com/554252 [03:39] and thats as root [03:39] it works if i uncheck realtime tho [03:40] tanders12: which kernel? [03:40] generic? [03:40] uname -a [03:40] yeah [03:40] OK [03:40] installing LL now [03:40] i think that is to be expected [03:40] so far [03:40] oh duh [03:40] cgroups [03:41] i forgot [03:41] tanders12: holstein: did you read the comment on the US-dev list, that firewire should work without adding user to audio group? [03:41] ailo: sure, it'll work [03:41] without RT [03:41] no [03:41] ailo: tanders12 just did htat [03:41] that* [03:41] as root [03:41] holstein: Yeah. [03:41] i didnt think we were debating that [03:41] but whatever [03:41] i mean, with that email [03:42] holstein: No, it should work as user too, if the guy was right [03:42] OH [03:42] tanders12: [03:42] before you reboot [03:42] try jack as normal user [03:42] just did it not root without rt also [03:42] with that RT box unchecked [03:42] ^^ [03:42] holstein: But because jack can't access realtime without audio group, better try with no realtime on jack [03:43] ailo: thats what is expected right? [03:43] i think we have a good bead on what is going on [03:43] setting my monitors up correctly crashes metacity [03:43] holstein: It was news to me. falktx was talking about it. Firewire can be accessed without udev rules all together. [03:43] or whatever it is that controls the window buttons [03:43] tanders12: i bet ;) [03:44] its a mess in there [03:44] in some ways [03:44] yah [03:44] time for LL :D [03:44] tanders12: :) [03:44] what irc clients you guys use? [03:44] irssi [03:45] tanders12: I'm on xchat [03:45] cool [03:46] works as root [03:46] not as user [03:46] holstein: tanders12: No realtime on generic, so no use using realtime on jack. It would be cool to know, if firewire works in usermode without audio group and jack not using realtime [03:47] ailo: nows the time [03:47] tanders12: SO... [03:47] you have not added yourself to the audio group yet right? [03:48] Tanders12: You're testing Natty, right? [03:48] yeah [03:48] fresh install :) [03:48] holstein: no [03:48] tanders12: COOL [03:48] so lets make sure we get that test in [03:49] normal user, non-rt, and jack doesnt start tanders12 ? [03:49] no that works [03:49] OK [03:49] if its non rt [03:49] ailo: so that fits then [03:49] right? [03:50] nice [03:50] works after adding to audio group [03:50] holstein: tanders12: So adding oneself to audio group will give realtime access to both jackd and the firewire device [03:50] from fresh install: 1) install lowlatency 2) add to audio group 3) don [03:50] done** [03:50] OK [03:50] hostein: tanders12: But since the generic kernel can't give realtime, no use trying to make that work. -lowlatency is the only solution for now. [03:51] and now all is good? [03:51] and im still getting xruns :P [03:51] tanders12: May be there is an irq problem. [03:51] well, thats what was up before though right? [03:51] yeah [03:51] i think its graphics and FW sharing [03:51] prolly hw [03:51] but i could hope, right? [03:52] tanders12: i thought it was worth a try [03:52] since we needed this test anyways [03:52] to confirm [03:52] tanders12: thanks for doing it :) [03:52] np [03:53] tanders12: Yeah, thanks. [03:53] tanders12: You seem to want to get more involved too? [03:53] is there any way around the gfx sharing issue? [03:53] ailo: to a point [03:53] :) [03:53] tanders12: abogani was saying something about it. [03:53] ailo: you know about software irq routing? [03:54] hosltein: I only know that rtirq will help, on a -rt kernel [03:54] not on lowlatency tho? [03:54] i dont know about that really [03:54] tanders12: i think it should [03:54] tanders12: No [03:54] AH [03:54] sux [03:55] holstein: Only together with the realtime patch, which the -lowlatency does not have. -lowlatency is essentially a generic kernel with lower latency [03:55] tanders12: if you added abogani's PPA [03:56] there is a -realtime in there for natty [03:56] ill have to try rt then... [03:56] you could mess around while your testing anyways [03:56] holstein: tanders12: abogani had some ideas about that, how to fix irq, and he said it was possible, but required caution [03:56] yeah [03:56] not nearly as much caution on a test install though :) [03:58] If we could ask him more about it, maybe someone could try a solution, and maybe even discuss it on lau's dev list, to get more heads on it. [03:58] It's sad that -lowlatency has this one problem, when in all other ways it solves all problems. [03:58] For audio users [03:58] wat problem? [03:59] tanders12: IRQ. [04:00] tanders12: So, just to make sure :). You did boot into -lowlatency? [04:00] realtime package missing... [04:00] yeah [04:01] hm he removed it apparently [04:01] tanders12: No realtime kernel for Natty, yet. [04:02] tanders12: It's more work, and if it is deemed really needed, abogani will probably work on it. [04:03] k [04:03] ill test some more [04:03] LL might still be more reliable on my system than maverick [04:03] tanders12: LL? [04:04] tanders12: Your jack settings were default? [04:04] lowlatency [04:04] no [04:04] 512 no mem lock firewire [04:05] tanders12: 512 should of course work normally. Don't know what holstein had, but it was pretty low. Im stable at 64 frames/period with pci cards. [04:08] i got 32 to start ;) [04:09] and run OK actually [04:09] 32 started [04:09] 1 xrun off the bat [04:12] still has old version of ffado-mixer [04:12] gonna have to build everything from source again [04:12] im getting quite good at that [04:12] ;' [04:12] ;) [04:13] wow [04:13] definitely MUCH better than maverick [04:14] performance wise? [04:14] no xruns playing audacious at 64 so far [04:14] i thought that too [04:14] installing stuff from synaptic in background too [04:14] sounds like prgress to me [04:15] pumping audacious into ardour and recording w/ patchage running [04:16] NO xruns [04:16] freak yeah [04:18] ok got one but i didn't hear any click... [04:18] tanders12: So, how come you got them before? [04:18] xruns? [04:18] tanders12: What kind of CPU do you have? [04:18] core duo [04:19] pretty sure it's cuz my firewire bus is shared with my graphics [04:20] tanders12: Well, shouldn't it be the same all the time? [04:21] tanders12: If in fact you are able to run firewire as low as 64 frames/period with irq sharing graphics with firewire, I don't see how there could be an irq problem [04:23] idk [04:24] tanders12: So, it happened once, and now it didn't? Maybe it will happen on occasion? If it does, please let us know. I find this is the final stone to turn over about the -lowlatency kernel. [04:25] u mean xruns on occasion? [04:25] tanders12: Yes. But not just one or two. [04:25] its always been like 1 per minute or so [04:26] tanders12: Oh. [04:26] but not as many now [04:26] tanders12: Did you try on a -realtime kernel at any point? Which distro, in that case? [04:27] tried natty rt on maverick [04:27] tanders12: You mean -lowlatency [04:27] tanders12: Lucid has linux-rt, but it's backported from Karmic [04:28] tanders12: In Karmic you have a real -rt kernel, and the rtirq script [04:28] i got tanders12 going with RT [04:28] the natty one [04:28] in maverick [04:28] didnt help :/ [04:28] holstein: But, there's no -rt in Natty. Only -lowlatency. It's not the same thing. [04:28] there was [04:29] if its not there anymore [04:29] its an older verion i think [04:29] there was an older verion in there at least [04:29] i got it too [04:29] yeah [04:29] id have to look [04:29] holstein: Did I miss it? Must have been a month ago, then? [04:29] holstein has the link [04:29] BUT it might be the same as lucid [04:30] ailo: probably that long ago [04:30] i found this link... [04:30] http://jackschnippes.freeunix.net/index.php/2010/11/04/lowlatency-kernel-and-realtime-kernel-for-ubuntu-10-10-maverick [04:30] just links to the .deb's from aboganis PPA [04:32] holstein: tanders12: That -realtime kernel is for Lucid, not for Natty. You'll find it in https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter= [04:33] holstein: tanders12: If you use the filter, you'll find they are for Lucid. [04:33] hm [04:33] i thought it looked familiar ;) [04:33] i just installed it and tried it [04:33] and didnt really check it [04:35] holstein: It shouldn't include the new firewire stack, I think. I mean, it should be the same stuff on it, as the Lucid kernel, except it has the realtime patch, and can be used with the rtirq script. [04:35] lol [04:35] so i was running a lucid kernel on maverick? [04:36] yeah, you can still try what you need with it tanders12 [04:36] tanders12: I always thought you were testing the -lowlatency [04:36] ailo: in natty [04:36] -lowlatency in natty right tanders12 ? [04:36] thats what i have [04:36] and -realtime in maverick and lucid [04:37] holstein: tanders12: I meant before, when tanders built ffado from source.. [04:37] i tried them all on maverick [04:37] best results with the lucid rt but wifi didnt work [04:38] tanders12: Common problem with -rt, from what I understand. [04:38] Or, -realtime in this case [04:38] yea [04:39] The difference between -rt and -realtime is that -rt is Ubuntu, while -realtime is linux vanilla. [04:39] sick of usin that tiny netbook keyboard [04:40] i get used to it [04:40] the tiny keyboard [04:40] and the other ones feel HUGE [04:40] well, my wrists are killin me [04:40] violin, guitar and tons of typing [04:40] not good [04:41] typing hurts me after a while [04:41] tanders123: So, you got firewire working, but you get a xrun every minute or so, no matter which period/buffer you use? [04:41] playing usually helps a bit [04:41] ailo: it's much better with the lowlatency [04:41] i need to test it more [04:41] tanders123: Still, not perfect? [04:41] tanders123: I would want perfect. [04:42] but i suspect the xruns im getting now are just from opening programs, minimizing things, etc [04:42] yeah not perfect [04:42] do you never get xruns on your machine? [04:42] tanders123: Shouldn't affect on a higher frames/period. I get no xruns at all at 64 f/p. [04:42] hm [04:42] lucky [04:42] :P [04:42] but that's pci huh [04:43] tanders123: Yeah. [04:43] holstein: you said you get xruns occasionally right? [04:43] tanders123: not really [04:43] if i open a program *sometimes [04:43] certain apps [04:43] holstein: tanders123: It will happen when opening/closing programs that connect to jack. [04:44] That is normal [04:44] not just sitting there though [04:44] i have seen that though [04:44] my EEE [04:44] if i push it too hard [04:44] running JACK [04:44] it'll just xrun every 20 seconds or so [04:44] your eee have fw? [04:45] hehe [04:45] i wish [04:45] i have an HP mininote with an expresscard slot though [04:45] nice [04:45] little more hardware than the EEE [04:45] which eee? [04:45] ive got an old 701 :) [04:45] tanders123: Do you get xruns at 512 f/p? Try adjusting periods/buffer and set it to 3 (just fishing). [04:45] 900 [04:46] nice [04:46] i should have waited lol [04:46] Mine is 901, I think [04:46] but now i can tell everyone that i got the first netbook ever [04:46] yeaH, i have to say i got the second one [04:46] ailo: lemme build everything then ill start testing. I can't turn on phantom power to test my mic until i get ffado-mixer working [04:47] tanders123: I see. [04:48] as far as im concerned if it'll let me record a song without wiggin out that's good enough [04:48] try setting it really modest [04:48] 1024 or more [04:49] 3 [04:49] you dont need low latency at all [04:49] what does the frames per buffer do? [04:49] you can go too far the other way though [04:49] tanders123: im not sure about the particualars [04:50] tanders123: holstein: I don't know either, except I've read sometimes that it can help midi perform better. Maybe that would be good to find out... [04:50] hm [04:52] http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/Jack_frame,_period,_buffer_info [04:53] if you ever know anyone having trouble building ffado or jack, send them to me. I'm pretty much pro at it by now ;) [04:58] tanders123: i might be asking about ffado at some point [05:01] its way easy [05:01] if you have any desire to try it i say go for it [05:02] sometime :) [05:02] bedtime now though... laterx [05:02] holstein: good night [05:05] tanders123: If you do get occasional xruns at 512 f/p, I would ask the ffado guys. Could be hardware specific. [05:07] cya [05:11] we have mixer [05:11] tanders123: Let me know if you have xruns. [05:12] k [05:12] had a couple while starting everything up [05:13] it's just sitting with ardour recording output from audacious right now [05:13] tanders123: Not connecting? [05:13] no it's workin [05:13] Oh, ok [05:13] frames/period? [05:13] been playing for 1.5 minutes with no xruns [05:13] 512/3 [05:14] ok it had an xrun [05:14] but i didn't hear anything. it used to click [05:14] every time [05:14] Still.. [05:14] yup [05:14] nother one, didn't affect audio... [05:15] Could be something using the same IRQ every 2 minutes [05:15] those 2 were close together... [05:15] Or every 1 minute, like a crontab job [05:15] Maybe the wireless? Is that on the same IRQ? [05:16] no [05:16] yenta, firewire, and i915 [05:16] pretty sure yenta is the chipset driver or something like that [05:16] i915 is intel 945 [05:17] yenta = pcmcia ? [05:18] lol [05:18] fali [05:18] fail** [05:18] it cut out RIGHT before the end of the song [05:18] It crashed? [05:18] no it threw and xrun that actually affected the sound [05:18] ok [05:18] imma go back and listen to the others... [05:19] I think the xrun is affecting it all the time, but it is by chance whether it changes the sound wave so it is audible. [05:20] Why don't you post something about that on the ffado list? If you don't, I could. But I have no device to test. [05:21] interesting [05:21] even though i heard the last one click, when I went back and listened to the recorded version it sounded fine... [05:22] you think it's an ffado problem? [05:22] So, the xrun is only affecting the firewire device, not internally. [05:22] maybe idk [05:22] it's strang [05:22] But, if you record, it will be audible on the track too [05:22] no [05:22] that's what im saying [05:23] i went back and listened to the recorded track [05:23] not audible [05:23] I mean from microphone, using the firewire device [05:23] Since it passes through the device [05:23] maybe [05:23] oh [05:23] i gotcha, duh [05:24] I think the ffado guys could perhaps explain why there are xruns. Maybe we can do something about it. [05:24] of course ardour wouldn't notice since the sound goes straight from audacious to jack to ardou [05:24] how do you think I should word it? [05:24] tanders123: Maybe the firewire device is the only part of it not syncing, while the programs are having no problems. [05:26] I guess you could explain the symptom, occasional xruns every one minute or so. Tell them what system you are on. [05:26] Maybe put some info of your hardware, cpu, irq shared devices. [05:27] In a way, it's a bug. But perhaps it is a linux bug? Would be nice what is causing it first. [05:27] Would be nice to know.. [05:28] If the ffado guys don't answer, you could try the lau list too. [05:28] lau? [05:28] Linux Audio Users mail list [05:28] this is weird. it's pretty much just as stable at 64/3 [05:29] oh [05:29] tanders123: Yeah, I don't think it is related to the frames/period. Must be something throwing the device off every now and then [05:29] yeah [05:29] IRQ would be my first guess. [05:30] i would think that graphics would cause it to mess up more consistently [05:30] The device is not getting enough priority, so something else takes over that resource [05:30] and you can't set priority in lowlatency, right [05:30] Maybe, but I don't know how. Seemed like abogani had some ideas about that. [05:31] ok i think it's MORE stable at 64... [05:31] 4 minutes with 0 xruns [05:31] tanders123: Twilight zone.. [05:31] ah [05:32] im gonna up it to 1024 and 2048 and see what happens [05:32] it'd be nice to find SOME sort of pattern [05:32] maybe the buffer being to big is throwing something out of sync [05:32] Maybe. [05:32] 5 min clean [05:32] lol spoke too soon [05:33] just had one [05:33] But, it may also be that the problem is still there, just need to do something to get the system upset. [05:33] yeah def a problem of some sort [05:34] need to play with my desktop a little more and see what I can do there. i have an NEC firewire card in it and the motherboard lets you manually set all the irq stuff [05:35] tanders123: I would guess you will have no problems with the Desktop in that case. holstein didn't seem to have any problems. [05:39] we'll see [05:39] btw i got arch runnin [05:40] k sent out the email to ffado-user [05:40] basically just gave them my ffado-diag [05:41] looks good. [05:43] so where does your interest in the firewire stuff come from, seeing as you don't have a device? [05:44] I just took it as a part of my duties as a tester to make sure everything has been tested. [05:44] I'm also looking to buy a device in the future, so I might just as well help making sure it works. [05:45] Firewire seems to be the toughest device to get working. Usually everything else works smoothly. [05:46] Also, I'm helping with the Ubuntustudio-controls, which are meant to assist in that area, if it is able to do that. [05:48] ah ok [05:48] what sort of device you wanna get? just a basic interface? [05:50] I need at least 12 channels, so either one that has an adat interface to expand the number of channels, or daisy-chaining 8+8 channels. [05:50] Focusrite seems the most promising, and price worthy. [05:51]