[01:50] <ScottL> ugh, paultag, i get the -settings package to install properly (at least there are no errors now), but it's not setting the default xsession
[01:50] <ScottL> i ran into a few other syntax errors but fixed those and i have also played with a few other things
[01:51] <ScottL> i even checked a few things on the xubuntu and une -settings to verify again what i was doing
[01:51] <ScottL> if you don't have any good suggestions then i will try to find didirocks again and ask him to look over a few things and ask him a few questions
[02:17] <ScottL> paultag, lastly, i have even tried running the /usr/lib/gdm/gdm-set-default-session command by hand in a terminal and it doesn't seem to work
[02:17]  * ScottL is frustrated
[02:23]  * holstein too
[02:30] <ScottL> what are you frustrated about holstein ?
[02:54] <tanders12> holstein: tried daily again and it seems to be much more stable
[02:55] <holstein> tanders12: cool
[02:57] <tanders12> what are the steps you wanted me to try?
[03:00] <holstein> OH
[03:00] <holstein> tanders12: try sudo qjackctl
[03:01] <holstein> til you're sure JACK is working with your device
[03:01] <holstein> then, get the -lowlatency kernel from abogani
[03:02] <holstein> https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa
[03:02] <holstein> try it sudo again
[03:02] <holstein> then as normal user if that is working
[03:02] <holstein> then add yourself to the audio group
[03:02] <holstein> and run as normal user
[03:39] <tanders12> paste.ubuntu.com/554252
[03:39] <tanders12> and thats as root
[03:39] <tanders12> it works if i uncheck realtime tho
[03:40] <holstein> tanders12: which kernel?
[03:40] <holstein> generic?
[03:40] <holstein> uname -a
[03:40] <tanders12> yeah
[03:40] <holstein> OK
[03:40] <tanders12> installing LL now
[03:40] <holstein> i think that is to be expected 
[03:40] <holstein> so far
[03:40] <tanders12> oh duh
[03:40] <tanders12> cgroups
[03:41] <tanders12> i forgot
[03:41] <ailo> tanders12: holstein: did you read the comment on the US-dev list, that firewire should work without adding user to audio group?
[03:41] <holstein> ailo: sure, it'll work
[03:41] <holstein> without RT
[03:41] <tanders12> no
[03:41] <holstein> ailo: tanders12 just did htat
[03:41] <holstein> that*
[03:41] <holstein> as root
[03:41] <ailo> holstein: Yeah.
[03:41] <holstein> i didnt think we were debating that
[03:41] <holstein> but whatever
[03:41] <holstein> i mean, with that email
[03:42] <ailo> holstein: No, it should work as user too, if the guy was right
[03:42] <holstein> OH
[03:42] <holstein> tanders12: 
[03:42] <holstein> before you reboot
[03:42] <holstein> try jack as normal user
[03:42] <tanders12> just did it not root without rt also
[03:42] <holstein> with that RT box unchecked
[03:42] <tanders12> ^^
[03:42] <ailo> holstein: But because jack can't access realtime without audio group, better try with no realtime on jack
[03:43] <holstein> ailo: thats what is expected right?
[03:43] <holstein> i think we have a good bead on what is going on
[03:43] <tanders12> setting my monitors up correctly crashes metacity
[03:43] <ailo> holstein: It was news to me. falktx was talking about it. Firewire can be accessed without udev rules all together.
[03:43] <tanders12> or whatever it is that controls the window buttons
[03:43] <holstein> tanders12: i bet ;)
[03:44] <holstein> its a mess in there
[03:44] <holstein> in some ways
[03:44] <tanders12> yah
[03:44] <tanders12> time for LL :D
[03:44] <holstein> tanders12: :)
[03:44] <tanders12> what irc clients you guys use?
[03:44] <holstein> irssi
[03:45] <ailo> tanders12: I'm on xchat
[03:45] <tanders12> cool
[03:46] <tanders12> works as root
[03:46] <tanders12> not as  user
[03:46] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: No realtime on generic, so no use using realtime on jack. It would be cool to know, if firewire works in usermode without audio group and jack not using realtime
[03:47] <holstein> ailo: nows the time
[03:47] <holstein> tanders12: SO...
[03:47] <holstein> you have not added yourself to the audio group yet right?
[03:48] <ailo> Tanders12: You're testing Natty, right?
[03:48] <tanders12> yeah
[03:48] <holstein> fresh install :)
[03:48] <tanders12> holstein: no
[03:48] <holstein> tanders12: COOL
[03:48] <holstein> so lets make sure we get that test in
[03:49] <holstein> normal user, non-rt, and jack doesnt start tanders12 ?
[03:49] <tanders12> no that works
[03:49] <holstein> OK
[03:49] <tanders12> if its non rt
[03:49] <holstein> ailo: so that fits then
[03:49] <holstein> right?
[03:50] <tanders12> nice
[03:50] <tanders12> works after adding to audio group
[03:50] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: So adding oneself to audio group will give realtime access to both jackd and the firewire device
[03:50] <tanders12> from fresh install: 1) install lowlatency 2) add to audio group 3) don
[03:50] <tanders12> done**
[03:50] <holstein> OK
[03:50] <ailo> hostein: tanders12: But since the generic kernel can't give realtime, no use trying to make that work. -lowlatency is the only solution for now.
[03:51] <holstein> and now all is good?
[03:51] <tanders12> and im still getting xruns :P
[03:51] <ailo> tanders12: May be there is an irq problem.
[03:51] <holstein> well, thats what was up before though right?
[03:51] <tanders12> yeah
[03:51] <holstein> i think its graphics and FW sharing
[03:51] <tanders12> prolly hw
[03:51] <tanders12> but i could hope, right?
[03:52] <holstein> tanders12: i thought it was worth a try
[03:52] <holstein> since we needed this test anyways
[03:52] <holstein> to confirm
[03:52] <holstein> tanders12: thanks for doing it :)
[03:52] <tanders12> np
[03:53] <ailo> tanders12: Yeah, thanks.
[03:53] <ailo> tanders12: You seem to want to get more involved too?
[03:53] <tanders12> is there any way around the gfx sharing issue?
[03:53] <tanders12> ailo: to a point
[03:53] <tanders12> :)
[03:53] <ailo> tanders12: abogani was saying something about it.
[03:53] <holstein> ailo: you know about software irq routing?
[03:54] <ailo> hosltein: I only know that rtirq will help, on a -rt kernel
[03:54] <tanders12> not on lowlatency tho?
[03:54] <holstein> i dont know about that really
[03:54] <holstein> tanders12: i think it should
[03:54] <ailo> tanders12: No
[03:54] <holstein> AH
[03:54] <holstein> sux
[03:55] <ailo> holstein: Only together with the realtime patch, which the -lowlatency does not have. -lowlatency is essentially a generic kernel with lower latency
[03:55] <holstein> tanders12: if you added abogani's PPA
[03:56] <holstein> there is a -realtime in there for natty
[03:56] <tanders12> ill have to try rt then...
[03:56] <holstein> you could mess around while your testing anyways
[03:56] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: abogani had some ideas about that, how to fix irq, and he said it was possible, but required caution
[03:56] <tanders12> yeah
[03:56] <holstein> not nearly as much caution on a test install though :)
[03:58] <ailo> If we could ask him more about it, maybe someone could try a solution, and maybe even discuss it on lau's dev list, to get more heads on it.
[03:58] <ailo> It's sad that -lowlatency has this one problem, when in all other ways it solves all problems.
[03:58] <ailo> For audio users
[03:58] <tanders12> wat problem?
[03:59] <ailo> tanders12: IRQ. 
[04:00] <ailo> tanders12: So, just to make sure :). You did boot into -lowlatency?
[04:00] <tanders12> realtime package missing...
[04:00] <tanders12> yeah
[04:01] <tanders12> hm he removed it apparently
[04:01] <ailo> tanders12: No realtime kernel for Natty, yet.
[04:02] <ailo> tanders12: It's more work, and if it is deemed really needed, abogani will probably work on it.
[04:03] <tanders12> k
[04:03] <tanders12> ill test some more
[04:03] <tanders12> LL might still be more reliable on my system than maverick
[04:03] <ailo> tanders12: LL?
[04:04] <ailo> tanders12: Your jack settings were default?
[04:04] <tanders12> lowlatency
[04:04] <tanders12> no
[04:04] <tanders12> 512 no mem lock firewire
[04:05] <ailo> tanders12: 512 should of course work normally. Don't know what holstein had, but it was pretty low. Im stable at 64 frames/period with pci cards.
[04:08] <holstein> i got 32 to start ;)
[04:09] <holstein> and run OK actually
[04:09] <tanders12> 32 started
[04:09] <tanders12> 1 xrun off the bat
[04:12] <tanders12> still has old version of ffado-mixer
[04:12] <tanders12> gonna have to build everything from source again
[04:12] <tanders12> im getting quite good at that
[04:12] <tanders12> ;'
[04:12] <tanders12> ;)
[04:13] <tanders12> wow
[04:13] <tanders12> definitely MUCH better than maverick
[04:14] <holstein> performance wise?
[04:14] <tanders12> no xruns playing audacious at 64 so far
[04:14] <holstein> i thought that too
[04:14] <tanders12> installing stuff from synaptic in background too
[04:14] <holstein> sounds like prgress to me
[04:15] <tanders12> pumping audacious into ardour and recording w/ patchage running
[04:16] <tanders12> NO xruns
[04:16] <tanders12> freak yeah
[04:18] <tanders12> ok got one but i didn't hear any click...
[04:18] <ailo> tanders12: So, how come you got them before?
[04:18] <ailo> xruns?
[04:18] <ailo> tanders12: What kind of CPU do you have?
[04:18] <tanders12> core duo
[04:19] <tanders12> pretty sure it's cuz my firewire bus is shared with my graphics
[04:20] <ailo> tanders12: Well, shouldn't it be the same all the time?
[04:21] <ailo> tanders12: If in fact you are able to run firewire as low as 64 frames/period with irq sharing graphics with firewire, I don't see how there could be an irq problem
[04:23] <tanders12> idk
[04:24] <ailo> tanders12: So, it happened once, and now it didn't? Maybe it will happen on occasion? If it does, please let us know. I find this is the final stone to turn over about the -lowlatency kernel.
[04:25] <tanders12> u mean xruns on occasion?
[04:25] <ailo> tanders12: Yes. But not just one or two.
[04:25] <tanders12> its always been like 1 per minute or so
[04:26] <ailo> tanders12: Oh.
[04:26] <tanders12> but not as many now
[04:26] <ailo> tanders12: Did you try on a -realtime kernel at any point? Which distro, in that case?
[04:27] <tanders12> tried natty rt on maverick
[04:27] <ailo> tanders12: You mean -lowlatency
[04:27] <ailo> tanders12: Lucid has linux-rt, but it's backported from Karmic
[04:28] <ailo> tanders12: In Karmic you have a real -rt kernel, and the rtirq script
[04:28] <holstein> i got tanders12 going with RT
[04:28] <holstein> the natty one
[04:28] <holstein> in maverick
[04:28] <holstein> didnt help :/
[04:28] <ailo> holstein: But, there's no -rt in Natty. Only -lowlatency. It's not the same thing.
[04:28] <holstein> there was
[04:29] <holstein> if its not there anymore
[04:29] <holstein> its an older verion i think
[04:29] <holstein> there was an older verion in there at least
[04:29] <holstein> i got it too
[04:29] <tanders12> yeah
[04:29] <holstein> id have to look
[04:29] <ailo> holstein: Did I miss it? Must have been a month ago, then?
[04:29] <tanders12> holstein has the link
[04:29] <holstein> BUT it might be the same as lucid
[04:30] <holstein> ailo: probably that long ago 
[04:30] <holstein> i found this link...
[04:30] <holstein> http://jackschnippes.freeunix.net/index.php/2010/11/04/lowlatency-kernel-and-realtime-kernel-for-ubuntu-10-10-maverick
[04:30] <holstein> just links to the .deb's from aboganis PPA
[04:32] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: That -realtime kernel is for Lucid, not for Natty. You'll find it in https://launchpad.net/~abogani/+archive/ppa?field.series_filter=
[04:33] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: If you use the filter, you'll find they are for Lucid.
[04:33] <tanders12> hm
[04:33] <holstein> i thought it looked familiar ;)
[04:33] <holstein> i just installed it and tried it
[04:33] <holstein> and didnt really check it 
[04:35] <ailo> holstein: It shouldn't include the new firewire stack, I think. I mean, it should be the same stuff on it, as the Lucid kernel, except it has the realtime patch, and can be used with the rtirq script.
[04:35] <tanders12> lol
[04:35] <tanders12> so i was running a lucid kernel on maverick?
[04:36] <holstein> yeah, you can still try what you need with it tanders12 
[04:36] <ailo> tanders12: I always thought you were testing the -lowlatency
[04:36] <holstein> ailo: in natty
[04:36] <holstein> -lowlatency in natty right tanders12 ?
[04:36] <holstein> thats what i have
[04:36] <holstein> and -realtime in maverick and lucid
[04:37] <ailo> holstein: tanders12: I meant before, when tanders built ffado from source..
[04:37] <tanders12> i tried them all on maverick
[04:37] <tanders12> best results with the lucid rt but wifi didnt work
[04:38] <ailo> tanders12: Common problem with -rt, from what I understand.
[04:38] <ailo> Or, -realtime in this case
[04:38] <tanders12> yea
[04:39] <ailo> The difference between -rt and -realtime is that -rt is Ubuntu, while -realtime is linux vanilla.
[04:39] <tanders123> sick of usin that tiny netbook keyboard
[04:40] <holstein> i get used to it
[04:40] <holstein> the tiny keyboard
[04:40] <holstein> and the other ones feel HUGE
[04:40] <tanders123> well, my wrists are killin me
[04:40] <tanders123> violin, guitar and tons of typing
[04:40] <tanders123> not good
[04:41] <holstein> typing hurts me after a while
[04:41] <ailo> tanders123: So, you got firewire working, but you get a xrun every minute or so, no matter which period/buffer you use?
[04:41] <holstein> playing usually helps a bit
[04:41] <tanders123> ailo: it's much better with the lowlatency
[04:41] <tanders123> i need to test it more
[04:41] <ailo> tanders123: Still, not perfect?
[04:41] <ailo> tanders123: I would want perfect.
[04:42] <tanders123> but i suspect the xruns im getting now are just from opening programs, minimizing things, etc
[04:42] <tanders123> yeah not perfect
[04:42] <tanders123> do you never get xruns on your machine?
[04:42] <ailo> tanders123: Shouldn't affect on a higher frames/period. I get no xruns at all at 64 f/p.
[04:42] <tanders123> hm
[04:42] <tanders123> lucky
[04:42] <tanders123> :P
[04:42] <tanders123> but that's pci huh
[04:43] <ailo> tanders123: Yeah.
[04:43] <tanders123> holstein: you said you get xruns occasionally right?
[04:43] <holstein> tanders123: not really
[04:43] <holstein> if i open a program *sometimes
[04:43] <holstein> certain apps
[04:43] <ailo> holstein: tanders123: It will happen when opening/closing programs that connect to jack.
[04:44] <ailo> That is normal
[04:44] <holstein> not just sitting there though
[04:44] <holstein> i have seen that though
[04:44] <holstein> my EEE
[04:44] <holstein> if i push it too hard
[04:44] <holstein> running JACK
[04:44] <holstein> it'll just xrun every 20 seconds or so
[04:44] <tanders123> your eee have fw?
[04:45] <holstein> hehe
[04:45] <holstein> i wish 
[04:45] <holstein> i have an HP mininote with an expresscard slot though
[04:45] <tanders123> nice
[04:45] <holstein> little more hardware than the EEE
[04:45] <tanders123> which eee?
[04:45] <tanders123> ive got an old 701 :)
[04:45] <ailo> tanders123: Do you get xruns at 512 f/p? Try adjusting periods/buffer and set it to 3 (just fishing).
[04:45] <holstein> 900
[04:46] <tanders123> nice
[04:46] <tanders123> i should have waited lol
[04:46] <ailo> Mine is 901, I think
[04:46] <tanders123> but now i can tell everyone that i got the first netbook ever
[04:46] <holstein> yeaH, i have to say i got the second one
[04:46] <tanders123> ailo: lemme build everything then ill start testing. I can't turn on phantom power to test my mic until i get ffado-mixer working
[04:47] <ailo> tanders123: I see.
[04:48] <tanders123> as far as im concerned if it'll let me record a song without wiggin out that's good enough
[04:48] <holstein> try setting it really modest
[04:48] <holstein> 1024 or more
[04:49] <holstein> 3
[04:49] <holstein> you dont need low latency at all
[04:49] <tanders123> what does the frames per buffer do?
[04:49] <holstein> you can go too far the other way though
[04:49] <holstein> tanders123: im not sure about the particualars
[04:50] <ailo> tanders123: holstein: I don't know either, except I've read sometimes that it can help midi perform better. Maybe that would be good to find out...
[04:50] <tanders123> hm
[04:52] <ailo> http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/Jack_frame,_period,_buffer_info
[04:53] <tanders123> if you ever know anyone having trouble building ffado or jack, send them to me. I'm pretty much pro at it by now ;)
[04:58] <holstein> tanders123: i might be asking about ffado at some point
[05:01] <tanders123> its way easy
[05:01] <tanders123> if you have any desire to try it i say go for it
[05:02] <holstein> sometime :)
[05:02] <holstein> bedtime now though... laterx
[05:02] <ailo> holstein: good night
[05:05] <ailo> tanders123: If you do get occasional xruns at 512 f/p, I would ask the ffado guys. Could be hardware specific.
[05:07] <tanders123> cya
[05:11] <tanders123> we have mixer
[05:11] <ailo> tanders123: Let me know if you have xruns.
[05:12] <tanders123> k
[05:12] <tanders123> had a couple while starting everything up
[05:13] <tanders123> it's just sitting with ardour recording output from audacious right now
[05:13] <ailo> tanders123: Not connecting?
[05:13] <tanders123> no it's workin
[05:13] <ailo> Oh, ok
[05:13] <ailo> frames/period?
[05:13] <tanders123> been playing for 1.5 minutes with no xruns
[05:13] <tanders123> 512/3
[05:14] <tanders123> ok it had an xrun
[05:14] <tanders123> but i didn't hear anything. it used to click
[05:14] <tanders123> every time
[05:14] <ailo> Still..
[05:14] <tanders123> yup
[05:14] <tanders123> nother one, didn't affect audio...
[05:15] <ailo> Could be something using the same IRQ every 2 minutes
[05:15] <tanders123> those 2 were close together...
[05:15] <ailo> Or every 1 minute, like a crontab job
[05:15] <ailo> Maybe the wireless? Is that on the same IRQ?
[05:16] <tanders123> no
[05:16] <tanders123> yenta, firewire, and i915
[05:16] <tanders123> pretty sure yenta is the chipset driver or something like that
[05:16] <tanders123> i915 is intel 945
[05:17] <ailo> yenta = pcmcia ?
[05:18] <tanders123> lol
[05:18] <tanders123> fali
[05:18] <tanders123> fail**
[05:18] <tanders123> it cut out RIGHT before the end of the song
[05:18] <ailo> It crashed?
[05:18] <tanders123> no it threw and xrun that actually affected the sound
[05:18] <ailo> ok
[05:18] <tanders123> imma go back and listen to the others...
[05:19] <ailo> I think the xrun is affecting it all the time, but it is by chance whether it changes the sound wave so it is audible.
[05:20] <ailo> Why don't you post something about that on the ffado list? If you don't, I could. But I have no device to test.
[05:21] <tanders123> interesting
[05:21] <tanders123> even though i heard the last one click, when I went back and listened to the recorded version it sounded fine...
[05:22] <tanders123> you think it's an ffado problem?
[05:22] <ailo> So, the xrun is only affecting the firewire device, not internally.
[05:22] <tanders123> maybe idk
[05:22] <tanders123> it's strang
[05:22] <ailo> But, if you record, it will be audible on the track too
[05:22] <tanders123> no
[05:22] <tanders123> that's what im saying
[05:23] <tanders123> i went back and listened to the recorded track
[05:23] <tanders123> not audible
[05:23] <ailo> I mean from microphone, using the firewire device
[05:23] <ailo> Since it passes through the device
[05:23] <tanders123> maybe
[05:23] <tanders123> oh
[05:23] <tanders123> i gotcha, duh
[05:24] <ailo> I think the ffado guys could perhaps explain why there are xruns. Maybe we can do something about it.
[05:24] <tanders123> of course ardour wouldn't notice since the sound goes straight from audacious to jack to ardou
[05:24] <tanders123> how do you think I should word it?
[05:24] <ailo> tanders123: Maybe the firewire device is the only part of it not syncing, while the programs are having no problems.
[05:26] <ailo> I guess you could explain the symptom, occasional xruns every one minute or so. Tell them what system you are on.
[05:26] <ailo> Maybe put some info of your hardware, cpu, irq shared devices.
[05:27] <ailo> In a way, it's a bug. But perhaps it is a linux bug? Would be nice what is causing it first.
[05:27] <ailo> Would be nice to know..
[05:28] <ailo> If the ffado guys don't answer, you could try the lau list too.
[05:28] <tanders123> lau?
[05:28] <ailo> Linux Audio Users mail list
[05:28] <tanders123> this is weird. it's pretty much just as stable at 64/3
[05:29] <tanders123> oh
[05:29] <ailo> tanders123: Yeah, I don't think it is related to the frames/period. Must be something throwing the device off every now and then
[05:29] <tanders123> yeah
[05:29] <ailo> IRQ would be my first guess.
[05:30] <tanders123> i would think that graphics would cause it to mess up more consistently
[05:30] <ailo> The device is not getting enough priority, so something else takes over that resource
[05:30] <tanders123> and you can't set priority in lowlatency, right
[05:30] <ailo> Maybe, but I don't know how. Seemed like abogani had some ideas about that.
[05:31] <tanders123> ok i think it's MORE stable at 64...
[05:31] <tanders123> 4 minutes with 0 xruns
[05:31] <ailo> tanders123: Twilight zone..
[05:31] <tanders123> ah
[05:32] <tanders123> im gonna up it to 1024 and 2048 and see what happens
[05:32] <tanders123> it'd be nice to find SOME sort of pattern
[05:32] <tanders123> maybe the buffer being to big is throwing something out of sync
[05:32] <ailo> Maybe.
[05:32] <tanders123> 5 min clean
[05:32] <tanders123> lol spoke too soon
[05:33] <tanders123> just had one
[05:33] <ailo> But, it may also be that the problem is still there, just need to do something to get the system upset.
[05:33] <tanders123> yeah def a problem of some sort
[05:34] <tanders123> need to play with my desktop a little more and see what I can do there. i have an NEC firewire card in it and the motherboard lets you manually set all the irq stuff
[05:35] <ailo> tanders123: I would guess you will have no problems with the Desktop in that case. holstein didn't seem to have any problems. 
[05:39] <tanders123> we'll see
[05:39] <tanders123> btw i got arch runnin
[05:40] <tanders123> k sent out the email to ffado-user
[05:40] <tanders123> basically just gave them my ffado-diag
[05:41] <ailo> looks good.
[05:43] <tanders123> so where does your interest in the firewire stuff come from, seeing as you don't have a device?
[05:44] <ailo> I just took it as a part of my duties as a tester to make sure everything has been tested.
[05:44] <ailo> I'm also looking to buy a device in the future, so I might just as well help making sure it works.
[05:45] <ailo> Firewire seems to be the toughest device to get working. Usually everything else works smoothly. 
[05:46] <ailo> Also, I'm helping with the Ubuntustudio-controls, which are meant to assist in that area, if it is able to do that.
[05:48] <tanders123> ah ok
[05:48] <tanders123> what sort of device you wanna get? just a basic interface?
[05:50] <ailo> I need at least 12 channels, so either one that has an adat interface to expand the number of channels, or daisy-chaining 8+8 channels.
[05:50] <ailo> Focusrite seems the most promising, and price worthy.
[05:51] <tanders123> no daisychaining with juju currently
[05:51] <tanders123> iirc
[05:52] <ailo> I heard they were fixing that. Don't know if it is already done.
[05:52] <tanders123> i was gonna get a saffire pro 24 but then a guy on ffado-user offered me his used af4 and sold it to me for 160, so i couldn't pass it up
[05:53] <ailo> audiofire seems like a good deal too. Depending on the needs. I would like mic amps on all channels, to get rid of the external mixer.
[05:54] <ailo> Right now I have two m-audio delta cards synced. Works like a dream, but I'm stuck with a desktop. Would be better to have a laptop.
[05:56] <tanders123> dont be so sure...
[05:56] <tanders123> :D
[05:56] <ailo> I feel like we are spamming this channel a bit. Would be good to have a ubuntustudio-testing channel
[05:56] <tanders123> hm maybe
[05:57] <tanders123> but it's not used much, so for the time being i wouldn't worry about it
[05:57] <ailo> Well, I think the guys will read up on what has been said, and 1000 lines of testing is not what they are after..
[06:01] <ailo> tanders123: By the way, just for the sake of it. In usermode, without realtime on the generic kernel. How bad was the performance?
[06:03] <tanders123> lol maybe ure right
[06:06] <tanders123> idk
[06:06] <ailo> tanders123: Just trying with builtin card. But on -lowlatency. 128 f/p seems to be no problem withou realtime
[06:07] <tanders123> didnt try to run anything
[06:08] <tanders123> ***yawn
[06:08] <tanders123> bedtime bro
[06:08] <ailo> Nope 128 was no good for me..
[06:09] <tanders123> hm
[06:09] <tanders123> well have a good one
[06:09] <ailo> tanders123: Yeah. See you around
[14:00] <ScottL> ailo, holstein, paultag :  interesting bug filed about ubuntustudio-controls and new firewire stack - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/703199
[14:01] <ailo> ScottL: Maybe we should let him know that app is outdated and will be replaced.
[14:02] <ScottL> would you mind posting something on the bug
[14:02] <ailo> Sure
[14:02] <ScottL> ailo, also see if you can set it to "confirmed"
[14:02] <ailo> ok
[14:07] <ScottL> TheMuso, if you have five minutes to talk about the gnome-classic xsession bug i would appreciate it, i'm very stuck at the moment and need a push in the right direction
[14:08] <holstein> thats not an entirely false statement
[14:08] <holstein> The role of UbuntuStudio Control may end in Natty
[14:08] <holstein> thats why its being re-vamped
[14:09] <holstein> would be nice if some folk would use IRC
[14:14] <ailo> holstein: I suppose we haven't decided yet what to do with US-controls. I have decided to write one from scratch, using python, adding only what is absolutely needed to get US running with realtime audio.
[14:14] <ailo> falktx: when do you think your controls will be ready? Within a month?
[14:15] <ailo> I'm also working on the notify script, which will let the user know of any problems when logging into the system.
[14:16] <ailo> falktx has an app underway, which could perhaps replace -controls.
[14:16] <falktx_> hey ailo, I already started coding it
[14:17] <falktx_> for now it starts the gui, show jack-stats and has a systray
[14:17] <falktx_> other GUI stuff is there, but doesnt do anything yet
[14:18] <ailo> falktx: So, it is meant to replace qjackctl and add some other features too?
[14:22] <falktx_> ailo: not just qjackctl, but patchage too
[14:28] <ailo> holstein: Did you ever try starting firewire, -generic kernel, jack without rt?
[14:28] <ailo> And no audio group
[14:35] <holstein> ailo: i dont think so
[14:35] <holstein> im surprised that checkbox does anything
[14:35] <holstein> i thought that was irrelevant
[14:36] <ailo> holstein: I think unchecking it adds a flag.
[14:37] <ailo> holstein: My little wiki page doesn't seem to be correct in the light of things. If firewire works without audio group, when not in rt, I guess I should mention that.
[14:37] <holstein> i thought it was changed though
[14:37] <holstein> and it didnt matter anymore
[14:37] <holstein> ailo: yeah, in theory
[14:37] <holstein> you can start JACK with US out of the box
[14:38] <holstein> which is different than what i thought at first
[14:38] <ailo> jack in itself doesn't seem to worry if one has access to realtime or not, it will start anyway, but the firewire driver doesn't seem to like that.
[14:38] <holstein> "as long as you dont actually need to use JACK, JACK can be started by..." ;)
[14:39] <ailo> holstein: So, the udev rules, I'm wondering if they are only to give firewire access to realtime.
[14:40] <holstein> we probably need another tast then
[14:40] <holstein> no audio group, with RT checked, with udev
[14:40] <ailo> holstein: If you could confirm on the theory, that: no audio group, no realtime, does firewire work with jack
[14:41] <ailo> I will change my page, if that is true
[14:41] <holstein> well, tanders12 said that worked right?
[14:41] <holstein> i can do it
[14:41] <holstein> im just not sure i trust reverting the groups change
[14:42] <holstein> BUT i'll try it
[14:42] <ailo> As long as you log out after doing the change
[14:43] <ailo> And you could even try it on the -lowlatency, as long as you don't use realtime. If you want to be extra sure, run jackd --no-realtime from the terminal.
[14:46] <holstein> i like that
[14:46] <holstein> i'll ping you when im doing it
[14:46] <ailo> holstein: Great.
[14:46] <holstein> so you can help me make sure im remembering everything :)
[14:48] <ailo> holstein: I hardly remember what we said yesterday :)
[14:48] <holstein> hehe
[14:48] <holstein> yeah, but between the 2 of us, maybe we can keep it straight
[14:49] <ailo> let's hope so
[15:11] <ailo> abogani gave me the clue earlier to use zenity. It seems we can solve the whole problem using only that within a script.
[15:14] <falktx> hey, I want to ask something
[15:15] <falktx> how do you guys know which packages does ubuntu needs as base ?
[15:15] <falktx> like ubuntustudio-desktop depends on many small apps (acpid, etc)
[15:16] <falktx> is it copied from ubuntu or ...?
[15:25] <holstein> falktx: 
[15:25] <holstein> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/ubuntustudio-desktop
[15:25] <holstein> let me see if lucid is up
[15:25] <holstein> hey
[15:25] <holstein> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/ubuntustudio-desktop
[15:25] <holstein> :)
[15:59] <falktx> err, I got distracted
[16:01] <falktx> holstein: my question is, where did we get those packages names ?
[16:01] <falktx> where do they came from?
[16:02] <falktx> holstein: i want to make kxstudio-desktop-base, but not sure which packages to use
[16:02] <holstein> falktx: i think its up to you to decide that
[16:03] <holstein> what is in the meta-packages
[16:03] <falktx> well, for example, 'anacron'
[16:03] <falktx> why does ubuntustudio has that ?
[16:03] <holstein> who knows
[16:03] <holstein> theres a bunch of things that are probably just old
[16:03] <holstein> pre-hardy even
[16:15] <falktx> arrg... I'll have to do this blindly then
[16:19] <ScottL> falktx, i think they started with a vanilla ubuntu base and then replaced the parts they wanted to with the ubuntustudio-base 
[16:19] <falktx> ScottL: 'they' ?
[16:20] <holstein> lol
[16:20] <holstein> you know how 'they' are ;)
[16:20] <ailo> falktx: ScottL: I get the feeling some dependencies are outdated
[16:21] <ScottL> falktx, 'they' being all the old guard, who still may or may not hang around anymore but who helped build ubuntu studio
[16:21] <ScottL> falktx, look at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.natty/files
[16:22] <ScottL> specifically look at the desktop file
[16:23] <ScottL> ailo,  which dependencies?
[16:25]  * falktx bookmarks the page for later
[16:25] <ailo> ScottL: I don't know how I could check, but isn't HAL not needed anymore?
[16:26] <ailo> ScottL: Or are the dependencies just a sum of other applications dependencies?
[16:31] <ScottL> to help explain a little for everyone: those link above is to the "seeds" which are then "germinated"
[16:32] <ScottL> you tell the buildd system what you *want*, i.e. i want ardour, and it figures out all the dependencies for it, i.e. jackd, etc
[16:32] <ScottL> the figuring out the dependencies are the 'germinating' part as i understand it
[16:33] <ScottL> this is also a really good link:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/
[16:34] <ScottL> it contains all the log files for the ubuntu studio builds
[16:34] <ScottL> ailo, it would appear that indeed HAL is included in the ubuntu studio image:  http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntustudio/natty/daily-20110115.log
[16:44] <ailo> ScottL: I've finished the script that will let you finish Ubuntustudio configuration. I use zenity to add a notification-tray item.
[16:44] <ailo> So far, I've left out the "actions", so noone needs to install anything.
[16:45] <ailo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/554419/
[16:45] <falktx> your kernel sucks ?
[16:46] <ailo> I give paultag creadit for that one
[16:47] <holstein> maybe "your kernel is not appropriate for real-time"
[16:47] <holstein> "why does my kernel suck?"
[16:47] <holstein> "it came with ubuntu?"
[16:47] <holstein> "does ubuntu suck?"
[16:49] <ailo> The script can be used both as the finishing touch of a package installation, and as a login auto-script.
[17:01] <TheMuso> ScottL: I will once I get back home. Don't really have time to look at it prior to flying out of the US tonight.
[17:02] <ScottL> TheMuso, oh, didn't know you were in the US currently, but thank you :)
[17:02] <ScottL> TheMuso, i don't suppose you were close to Texas?
[17:03] <TheMuso> ScottL: Dallas in fact.
[17:03] <TheMuso> Still here, waiting to meet up with someone at the hotel to go to the airport later.
[17:03] <TheMuso> Were here for he Natty sprint.
[17:44] <ScottL> TheMuso, aw, i'm probably less than three hours away and had the week off as vacation, had i known i could have come up for an afternoon to meet you :(
[17:46] <TheMuso> ScottL: Thats unfrotunate. I was rather busy as it was, so I may not have been able to make time, but too late to wonder about that now.
[17:46] <TheMuso> unfortunate
[17:46] <ScottL> TheMuso, true
[17:47] <ScottL> TheMuso, but i hope to make either the next UDS (presumably in Europe) or the follow UDS (again, presumably in the US), we can meet most likely at one of those
[17:47] <TheMuso> Cool.
[18:15] <ailo> There was a couple of errors in the last script. This one might work a little better http://paste.ubuntu.com/554449/
[18:28] <ScottL> TheMuso, how many hours hence do you think you will be ready?  not to hold you to a particular time, but just so i have a time frame
[18:38] <TheMuso> ScottL: Some time next week at least.
[19:03] <ailo> So, ScottL, what do you think about my latest idea for the script. At first I thought to update -controls (which we still can do, of course), but this script could already do the base configuration for audio.
[19:03] <ailo> ScottL: It needs a great deal of more work, but if you try it, I'm sure you get the idea
[19:10] <ailo> ScottL: And if you do try it, make sure you are not in the audio group, or that you are on the -generic kernel.