[06:16] <christhecoolboy> hello all :)
[06:24] <christhecoolboy> any unity Devs here? :)
[06:37] <Kaleo> christhecoolboy: it's too early for them (mostly in UK/US)
[06:38] <christhecoolboy> I am in the UK?
[06:38] <christhecoolboy> lol
[06:38] <christhecoolboy> its 6:38AM
[06:41] <kvalo> morning
[06:42] <christhecoolboy> thanks :)
[06:44] <christhecoolboy> any idea what time the rest will be on
[06:44] <christhecoolboy> I have an idea
[06:44] <christhecoolboy> about unity
[06:47] <Kaleo> christhecoolboy: probably in around 2-3 hours
[06:47] <christhecoolboy> ok...
[06:47] <christhecoolboy> do you wanna hear my idea? :)
[06:48] <christhecoolboy> also,I'm pretty new to ubuntu...
[06:48] <Kaleo> christhecoolboy: I have to go to bed :)
[06:48] <christhecoolboy> ok, night :)
[06:48] <Kaleo> christhecoolboy: thank you
[06:48] <Kaleo> christhecoolboy: have a nice day
[06:48] <christhecoolboy> thanks...
[06:48] <christhecoolboy> you too...
[06:49] <christhecoolboy> I mean... tomorrow, :D
[07:39] <kvalo> hmm, I can't install unity in natty because of some nux dependency problem...
[07:41] <coz_> kvalo,   I thought  unity was already installed onto natty
[07:45] <kvalo> coz_: I had to uninstall it last week because I was testing something
[07:46] <kvalo> I guess have to wait for didrocks
[07:46] <coz_> oh ok
[08:19] <christhecoolboy> hey all :)
[08:48] <christhecoolboy> any1 here now?
[09:12] <christhecoolboy> anyone here? :)
[09:17] <christhecoolboy> I wanna talk about unity stuff
[09:17] <christhecoolboy> and nobody is here 2 talk
[09:20] <njpatel> christhecoolboy, hey, many people are off today as we're all returning from a conference. What's up?
[09:21] <christhecoolboy> I had an idea about unity
[09:21] <christhecoolboy> some big project
[09:21] <christhecoolboy> I wanted to talk to people
[09:21] <njpatel> cool, design-wise or code-wise?
[09:21] <christhecoolboy> not sure lol
[09:21] <christhecoolboy> I'm pretty new
[09:22] <christhecoolboy> I wanted to talk to some devs
[09:22] <christhecoolboy> and get their input
[09:22] <christhecoolboy> and possible help
[09:22] <christhecoolboy> lol
[09:22] <njpatel> christhecoolboy, you can start with me, I'm the technical lead for Unity....I'll know who to refer you to ;)
[09:23] <christhecoolboy> ok... well, I have an idea for a peice of software that would come as part of ubuntu or as an update and uses unity as part of it
[09:26] <christhecoolboy> it would use unity as part of it, but it would be customized to work with that program...
[09:26] <christhecoolboy> Whatever you need to know... Ask...
[09:26] <christhecoolboy> I'm pretty new...
[09:26] <christhecoolboy> but I should be able to tell you enough
[09:27] <njpatel> Okay, so what is the idea?
[09:27] <christhecoolboy> something like XBOX 360 OS but for ubuntu, called "Ubuntu Games Center"
[09:28] <christhecoolboy> a gaming platform that uses unity
[09:28] <njpatel> where would it use Unity?
[09:29] <christhecoolboy> have u ever used xbox 360?
[09:29] <njpatel> yep
[09:29] <njpatel> you mean as a launcher for the games?
[09:29] <christhecoolboy> not just for games
[09:29] <christhecoolboy> for "acchievements" as well
[09:29] <christhecoolboy> ^bad speller! :D
[09:30] <christhecoolboy> http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20081117/dash1_610x411.jpg
[09:30] <christhecoolboy> ^that
[09:30] <christhecoolboy> but using unity
[09:30] <njpatel> yeah, i get what you mean
[09:31] <christhecoolboy> ubuntu needs its own gaming platform
[09:31] <njpatel> it would be interesting, but it's a massive project...I mean we don't even have a proper application SDK yet
[09:31] <christhecoolboy> yeah
[09:31] <njpatel> I think Ubuntu Platform, specifically #ubuntu-desktop would be the place to start discussion, tb
[09:31] <njpatel> tbh*
[09:31] <christhecoolboy> what would I ask lol?
[09:31] <njpatel> mainly because they control what goes into ubuntu
[09:32] <christhecoolboy> what would I say?
[09:32] <njpatel> christhecoolboy, it might actually make more sense to email ubuntu-devel list, so people can think and respond
[09:32] <njpatel> well, just say your idea :)
[09:33] <christhecoolboy> said that! :D
[09:35] <njpatel> yeah, but on the email so everyone can see :)
[09:35] <christhecoolboy> what is the email?
[09:35] <njpatel> the email you'll send to the mailing list
[09:35] <christhecoolboy> what mailing list?
[09:35] <christhecoolboy> I am new here, :D
[09:36] <njpatel> christhecoolboy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Communication
[09:37] <christhecoolboy> ok
[09:43] <christhecoolboy> rodrigo_, where is the email, I cant see one?
[09:44] <rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, what email?
[09:44] <didrocks> good morning
[09:44] <christhecoolboy> "njpatel> the email you'll send to the mailing list"
[09:44] <christhecoolboy> ^that one
[09:46] <christhecoolboy> rodrigo_,
[09:47] <rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, you need to send a mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss@?
[09:49] <christhecoolboy> I wanna send an email about my idea
[09:52] <christhecoolboy> rodrigo_, @ what.what?
[09:52] <rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[09:52] <rodrigo_> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:53] <christhecoolboy> did u see my idea about unity?
[10:03] <kvalo> didrocks: good morning
[10:03] <kvalo> didrocks: I can't install unity in natty. I think unity requires older libnux than what I have. a known issue?
[10:04] <didrocks> hey kvalo, had a nice trip back?
[10:04] <didrocks> kvalo: how? and it doesn't propose to you installing the new nux?
[10:04] <didrocks> can you apt-get install unity and pastebin the output there?
[10:07] <kvalo> didrocks: thanks, had a good trip. I got three seats when going over atlantic and didn't miss any plains :) what about you?
[10:08] <kvalo> didrocks: I'll get you the output soon, it's on my other machine
[10:09] <didrocks> kvalo: my neighbours were moving a lot, so I couldn't manage to get a lot of sleep, unfortunatly…
[10:09] <kvalo> didrocks: oh, sorry to hear that :(
[10:09] <kvalo> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/555023/
[10:10] <kvalo> didrocks: just realised, it could be that fi mirror is out of sync again. I'll try another mirror
[10:11] <didrocks> kvalo: seems that unity is out of sync in your mirror
[10:11] <didrocks> and bamf as well
[10:12] <kvalo> didrocks: yeah, switched to the main server and got lots of new updates. sorry for the noise again! :)
[10:12] <didrocks> kvalo: no worry :)
[10:13] <kvalo> this is the second time I have had this with the .fi mirrors. I should finally learn not to use it
[10:16] <didrocks> kvalo: for unstable, I keep the main archives, most of the time…
[10:16] <didrocks> kvalo: keep me updated if you still can't install it
[10:16] <kvalo> didrocks: from now on I'll also use the main server with unstable releases
[10:17] <didrocks> kvalo: sounds the best option :)
[10:18] <christhecoolboy> I'm not sure what to do about my big idea ;(
[10:19] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: today isn't the best day to get answers. People are recovering after a platform rally in Dallas,  just wait for a couple of days
[10:19] <christhecoolboy> didrocks, I cant really wait a couple days... :(
[10:20] <didrocks> why?
[10:21] <christhecoolboy> cause I'm trying to get it ready
[10:21] <christhecoolboy> for 11.04
[10:21] <christhecoolboy> and if I wait too late
[10:21] <christhecoolboy> it wont get in, (:
[10:23] <didrocks> well, 2 days will make such a huge difference?
[10:23] <christhecoolboy> it's gonna take ages to code
[10:23] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: also 11.04 is not really a possibility for adding a whole new app, decisions need to be made much in advance
[10:24] <christhecoolboy> how far in advance?
[10:24] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: atleast have some working code 6months before proposing to ship in a release..
[10:25] <christhecoolboy> someone told me that if I started late jan / early feb, I could get it in to 11.04
[10:25] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: this is the release schedule> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
[10:26] <christhecoolboy> so could I get it in 11.10?
[10:26] <evilvish> sure
[10:26] <christhecoolboy> its a big app
[10:26] <christhecoolboy> did u see my idea?
[10:26] <evilvish>  christhecoolboy: feb24 is feature freeze for Natty , and starting something new and getting it completed by feb24 is not easy..
[10:26] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: correction, late jan/early feb will enable you to get in universe, but not as default
[10:27] <didrocks> we discuss the defaults at UDS, with the whole community
[10:27] <christhecoolboy> evilvish, you said six months?
[10:27] <didrocks> and don't do big changes on what is scheduled without the community
[10:27] <christhecoolboy> wouldnt that be wouldnt that be the 4th month?
[10:27] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: yup.. 6months prior to a release is when a UDS takes place :)
[10:28] <christhecoolboy> I just dont wanna put it in too late
[10:28] <christhecoolboy> so that the competition puts their big thing up
[10:29] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: and if an app needs to be included in the default install it needs to be open source
[10:29] <christhecoolboy> it would be
[10:29] <kvalo> didrocks: thanks, unity works now.
[10:29] <kvalo> didrocks: but I can't install the two unity-place* packages
[10:30] <christhecoolboy> I'm just saying that I want to make something before someone else does
[10:30] <christhecoolboy> I have an awesome idea
[10:31] <kvalo> didrocks: but I don't need them for anything right now, so I just ignore them :)
[10:31] <didrocks> kvalo: yeah, the protocole changed and the places aren't working yet
[10:32] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: do you have an email on a mailing list you put it?
[10:32] <christhecoolboy> no
[10:32] <christhecoolboy> I dont know how
[10:32] <christhecoolboy> I'm new here
[10:32] <christhecoolboy> to the dev side
[10:33] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: right.. like what njpatel already mentioned , your first step would be to it send an email to ubuntu-devel list, so people can think and respond
[10:33] <christhecoolboy> what email would I use
[10:33] <christhecoolboy> is there a specific email?
[10:34] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
[10:35] <christhecoolboy> what should the title be
[10:36] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: its your idea.. sell it! :d
[10:36] <christhecoolboy> the only problem is that I cant code :(
[10:37] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: right, then you can post you ideas on ubuntu brainstorm, it some developer likes it they can implement it
[10:37] <evilvish> if* some
[10:37] <christhecoolboy> but then...
[10:37] <christhecoolboy> they wont use my plans
[10:38] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: alternatively,you can learn to code it yourself ;)
[10:38] <christhecoolboy> If I was to even try, I'd need a team lol
[10:41] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: haha! you are trying to hijack the Unity team?  i dont think they come cheap.. they get paid top dollar ;)
[10:41] <christhecoolboy> I'm not trying to hijack the team lol
[10:42] <multiplatinum> when you guys decided to ditch the systray cuz of its inconvenience u developed the appindicators, but now all apps are creating an appindicator, i thought it was the goal to get rid of all the icons? or did i misinterpret it and did you guys aim for just a consistent behavior, regardless of the number of icons?
[10:43] <christhecoolboy> evilvish, I'd like to get a few unity developers to help
[10:44] <christhecoolboy> cause this app really could push ubuntu towads a new market
[10:45] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: again, you have to post on a mailing list to share as well with people not online
[10:46] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: well, if you are serious about using their skills, then you'd need to hire them.. you can talk to Mark and say you'd like to pay for the developer's time they spend on your idea.. anyway thats a discussion you need to do with Mark.. or post on the ML
[10:46] <multiplatinum> when you guys decided to ditch the systray cuz of its inconvenience u developed the appindicators, but now all apps are creating an appindicator, i thought it was the goal to get rid of all the icons? or did i misinterpret it and did you guys aim for just a consistent behavior, regardless of the number of icons?
[11:09] <christhecoolboy> argh, this is going nowhere... :(
[11:16] <christhecoolboy> evilvish, how much would that cost?
[11:16] <christhecoolboy> just guessing
[11:17] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: as cjwatson mentioned on the other channel, learning a bit of code is the first step.
[11:17] <christhecoolboy> but what lang?
[11:18] <christhecoolboy> what lang do I code something that uses unity
[11:18] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: what grade are you in right now?
[11:18] <christhecoolboy> i'm 16
[11:18] <christhecoolboy> i'm british
[11:18] <christhecoolboy> year 11
[11:19] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/#coding
[11:19] <\sh> didrocks: good that you are here...when I use xev to check keyboard events and keycodes, is it ok, that my "Super_L" key is not "Super_L" anymore inside unity?
[11:20] <christhecoolboy> evilvish, but what lang?
[11:23] <christhecoolboy> looking at that
[11:23] <christhecoolboy> it doesnt say
[11:23] <christhecoolboy> what lanf
[11:23] <christhecoolboy> *lang
[11:24] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: click the link in : Unity Code Style Guidelines.
[11:24] <christhecoolboy> i mean...
[11:25] <christhecoolboy> what program
[11:25] <christhecoolboy> to write the code
[11:25] <christhecoolboy> and test / recompile / rebuild
[11:25]  * evilvish gtg now.. ttyl..
[11:29] <torkvemada> christhecoolboy: have you read the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/CodingStyle link?
[11:29] <torkvemada> You can find C, C++ and Vala there, aren't you?
[11:30] <christhecoolboy> yeah
[11:30] <christhecoolboy> but I'm new to this
[11:30] <christhecoolboy> coding
[11:30] <christhecoolboy> and ubuntu dev
[11:30] <torkvemada> so describe your question in more understandable way :)
[11:31] <torkvemada> can't really realize what d'ya want
[11:31] <christhecoolboy> how do I code stuff to work on ubuntu and how do I compile/use the unity code?
[11:31] <torkvemada> hm
[11:31] <torkvemada> have you written code ever?
[11:31] <torkvemada> and what sort of code?
[11:32] <christhecoolboy> torkvemada, dont laugh, I've only coded in AGS and QBASIC
[11:32] <didrocks> \sh: It's still Super_L there, do you see a similar issue with other compiz accelerators? Like Alt + Key for instance?
[11:33] <torkvemada> ough, QBasic, I haven't seen it for ~10 years
[11:33] <christhecoolboy> lol
[11:33] <christhecoolboy> i'm a retro person
[11:34] <torkvemada> so I can suggest you some different ways
[11:35] <torkvemada> 1. old-school and dangerous: you can start coding in C or C++. Hard to learn, can cut your leg off, but you can become the God in future
[11:37] <torkvemada> 2. C++/Qt or Vala: first is the pretty C++ with very nice framework, you'll have nice cross-platform GUI, nice documentation and many other things. Latter is the pretty C++-like language useful to write GTK-applications. I know nothing more about it, but it looks rather pretty :)
[11:38] <christhecoolboy> ok
[11:38] <\sh> didrocks: I'll test...
[11:40] <torkvemada> 3. Python: easy, very easy to start, can do many things, very popular among young developers and have fine tutorials. But you'll produce inefficient and slow applications :)
[11:40] <hyperair> sometimes it's not about speed
[11:40] <hyperair> it's about memory consumption
[11:40] <hyperair> and python sucks with that
[11:41] <christhecoolboy> what do you think would be the best, torkvemada
[11:41] <torkvemada> hyperair: have you ever started ubuntu and something pythonic on intel atom netbooks?)
[11:42] <hyperair> torkvemada: nope.
[11:42] <torkvemada> hyperair: it's sloooooow
[11:42] <hyperair> torkvemada: however, i've started many pythonic things on my intel core 2 duo laptop that used to have 2G of RAM.
[11:42] <hyperair> it ate memory. =p
[11:42] <hyperair> ibus is a classic case
[11:43] <hyperair> but the major consumers of memory were firefox, thunderbird, and the indicators which have memory leaks in lucid and maverick
[11:44] <christhecoolboy> a gaming platform called "Ubuntu Games Center" that uses unity to create a XBOX 360 style looks and allows for achievements, leaderboards and people to create their own games
[11:44] <christhecoolboy> ^thats what I wanna make
[11:44] <torkvemada> chrisccoulson: from my point of view, python sucks. But I'm the developer coding highload projects, I hate python. Neither I love GTK (I prefer Qt) so if you want my opinion, start with C++/Qt
[11:44] <didrocks> torkvemada: you meant christhecoolboy ? :)
[11:44] <torkvemada> or start with python/Qt and then migrate to C++/Qt
[11:45] <torkvemada> oh, yes
[11:45] <torkvemada> sorry
[11:45] <\sh_> didrocks, Super_L in xev gives me under unity: FocusOut event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x3c00001,
[11:45] <\sh_>     mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor
[11:46] <didrocks> \sh_: ok, I assume you have the latest release, isn't it?
[11:46] <christhecoolboy> brb
[11:46] <\sh_> 3.2.12-0ubuntu2
[11:47] <didrocks> \sh_: can you assign the "show the launcher" key to something else in ccsm and try xev again?
[11:47] <\sh_> didrocks, I mean...when the launcher panel to the left disappers super_l brings it back..
[11:47] <\sh_> didrocks, ccsm?
[11:47] <didrocks> \sh_: I know, it's me adding that :)
[11:48] <didrocks> \sh_: compizconfig-settings-manager
[11:48] <didrocks> it's in universe
[11:48] <\sh_> one moment..installing ;)
[11:48] <didrocks> you will see the "unity" plugin
[11:48] <didrocks> and can change that option to something else
[11:48] <didrocks> but that shouldn't change your xev key
[11:49] <\sh_> inside ubuntu unity plugin?
[11:49] <didrocks> right
[11:51] <\sh_> didrocks, ok...I switched it to Shift+l and shift alone gives the corect keysym , but shift +l gives me:  FocusOut event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x3e00001,
[11:51] <\sh_>     mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor
[11:51] <christhecoolboy> torkvemada,  whats a good program on ubuntu for c++
[11:52] <torkvemada> for development?
[11:52] <christhecoolboy> for development, complining and testing
[11:53] <torkvemada> many people prefer: QtCreator, Eclipse, Netbeans, vim, emacs and some others
[11:53] <torkvemada> i prefer vim but you'd better to use QtCreator :)
[11:53] <christhecoolboy> ok
[11:53] <torkvemada> it rather pretty and useful not only for qt
[11:53] <didrocks> \sh_: seems to be related to compiz. Can you ping smspillaz (he's in australia timezone) to get more info on that?
[11:53] <christhecoolboy> is that "sudo apt-get install qt
[11:53] <christhecoolboy> or
[11:54] <christhecoolboy> is that "sudo apt-get install qtcreator"
[11:54] <torkvemada> latter
[11:54] <christhecoolboy> ok
[11:54] <christhecoolboy> downloading
[11:54] <christhecoolboy> :(
[11:54] <christhecoolboy> *:)
[11:54] <\sh_> didrocks, should I file a bug report? just to be sure...i don't know if I'm still awake when australia wakes up :)
[11:55] <didrocks> \sh_: I would prefer you to first discuss with him. I'm not sure what should happen when the window manager interrupts key TBH :)
[11:55] <didrocks> \sh_: I guess there are good reason for it to alter the keycode
[11:55]  * torkvemada will try to reboot... damn .37 kernel with broken radeon and uvesafb
[11:55] <didrocks> so discussing with him will shed some lights on that
[11:56] <\sh_> ok..I'll try to catch him
[11:56] <christhecoolboy> whats the closest thing to imovie on ubuntu?
[12:18] <christhecoolboy> downloaded
[12:25] <chrisccoulson> torkvemada, was that directed at me?
[12:26] <multiplatinum> when will the appmenu be good?
[12:31] <torkvemada> chrisccoulson: no, that was mistake
[12:32] <torkvemada> chrisccoulson: i've chosen wrong nickname completion :)
[12:56] <\sh> didrocks: after coming back from screensaver (blank screen) somehow my mouse is not working anymore (mouse == touchpad on lenovo thinkpad)..
[12:56] <didrocks> \sh: try killall gnome-panel in a tty
[12:56] <didrocks> oupss
[12:56] <didrocks> \sh: killall gnome-screensaver
[12:57] <\sh> didrocks: oh well..nvidia here...so my tty after alt-ctrl-f1 is not usable
[12:57] <didrocks> \sh: it is for me with GFX_PAYLOAD_blabla set manually
[12:57] <\sh> ah
[12:57] <didrocks> ssh to it then
[12:58] <\sh> the screensaver password dialog is not displayed correctly...entereing my password helped
[12:58] <didrocks> but the wrong stacking order is probably guilty
[12:58] <didrocks> yeah, that was what I was thinking of :)
[12:58] <\sh> so...unity is still viewd even when screensaver kicks in
[12:58] <didrocks> yeah, the compiz stacking order isn't right
[12:58] <didrocks> already under work :)
[12:58] <\sh> didrocks: you rock :)
[12:59] <didrocks> \sh: hehe, thanks :)
[12:59] <\sh> ah and now the panel is gone
[12:59] <didrocks> nvidia… :)
[12:59] <didrocks> you have a lot of noise on it, isn't it?
[13:03] <\sh> no...that I had when I came back from suspend ;)
[13:03] <\sh> now I just have no panel...when I move to the top I can see something like the app menu from gnome-terminal ;)
[13:06] <didrocks> \sh: oh, that's weird, even if you restart unity with launching unity?
[13:06] <joaopinto> multiplatinum, if I understood it correctly one of the main goasl of using appindicators vs systray was to group controls from similar apps into single action menus
[13:07] <\sh> didrocks: you mean typing "unity" in terminal? when I start it again, from cli, panel comes back
[13:07] <didrocks> \sh: ok, then please file a bug with detailed reproduceable steps against unity
[13:08] <didrocks> \sh: can be related to another one with appmenu not being always in synced with focus app
[13:08] <\sh> didrocks: I'll try to reproduce first :)
[13:10] <ogra> didrocks, my arm image builds fail due to libindicator1 which is a rdepends of libunity0 which in turn is an rdep of unity-place-* on which unity depends ...
[13:11] <ogra> can we drop that dep from unity somehow until the unity-place-* stuff is solved ?
[13:15] <didrocks> ogra: are you sure? I saw a rebuild of unity by Riddel to dep on libindicator2, isn't it the case?
[13:15] <ogra> unity still depends on unity-place-files/applications
[13:15] <didrocks> ogra: it doesn't. it's a recommends
[13:15] <ogra> and as i understand that wont be updated until a new design exists
[13:15] <didrocks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/62258100/unity_3.2.12-0ubuntu1_3.2.12-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
[13:15] <christhecoolboy> I have an idea for a new site for ubuntu
[13:16] <ogra> well, our image builders dont make any difference between recommends/dep
[13:16] <christhecoolboy> who would I talk to?
[13:16] <didrocks> ogra: I can remove that for now, yes, but it's unity recommending it, not the places AFAIK
[13:16] <didrocks> ogra: so it shouldn't be an issue for unity-qt, isn't it?
[13:16] <ogra> its an issue for unity-2d too
[13:17] <ogra> (note we dont call it -qt anymore)
[13:17] <ogra> but thats not on the images yet
[13:17] <didrocks> ogra: I don't understand, what's the issue exactly? that the places are pulled in?
[13:17] <ogra> currently i only care for the image builds
[13:17] <ogra> right
[13:17] <didrocks> ogra: do you install unity in it or only unity-2d?
[13:17] <ogra> and the places depends on the missing lib
[13:17] <ogra> unity-2d is in universe
[13:17] <ogra> we dont use it yet
[13:17] <didrocks> ok, so the recommends is breaking the arm image
[13:18] <didrocks> ok, will remove the recommends for now
[13:18] <ogra> ignore unity-2d for now, i'm only talking about our failing image builds
[13:18] <ogra> thanks
[13:18] <ogra> root@ac100:/# apt-cache depends unity-place-applications|grep libunity
[13:18] <ogra>   Depends: libunity0
[13:18] <ogra> ...
[13:18] <christhecoolboy> didrocks, who would I speak to?
[13:19] <ogra> root@ac100:/# apt-cache rdepends unity-place-applications|grep unity
[13:19] <ogra> unity-place-applications
[13:19] <ogra>   unity
[13:19] <ogra> christhecoolboy, file a whishlist bug on the "website" component in launchpad
[13:19] <christhecoolboy> but I wanna open the site
[13:19] <christhecoolboy> if it is gonna happen
[13:20] <didrocks> ogra: that's because libindicator2 conflicts against libindicator1, isn't it?
[13:20] <ogra> yep
[13:20] <didrocks> ogra: ok, thanks, doing it now :)
[13:20] <ogra> thanks, i will do the same for unity-2d once i have talked to Kaleo about it
[13:21] <didrocks> ogra: then, we should be good to remove libunity0 from the archive btw
[13:21] <ogra> great
[13:22] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: all central discussion should came in ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
[13:22] <christhecoolboy> what?
[13:23] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: it's an answer to 14:19:00 christhecoolboy | didrocks, who would I speak to?
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> oh...
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> I want to make this site
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> that uses QSDA
[13:23] <didrocks> so, just make it :)
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> *QSQA
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> but I want support
[13:23] <christhecoolboy> from ubuntu
[13:24] <didrocks> you mean, support as "development support" ?
[13:24] <didrocks> or infrastructure?
[13:24] <christhecoolboy> no
[13:24] <christhecoolboy> I want them to host the site
[13:24] <didrocks> so infrastructure
[13:24] <christhecoolboy> yeah
[13:24] <didrocks> open the discussion on the mailing list
[13:24] <christhecoolboy> ok
[13:24] <ogra> i think that already exists on http://stackoverflow.com/
[13:26] <christhecoolboy> I want something that is ubuntu supported
[13:26] <ogra> http://askubuntu.com/
[13:26] <christhecoolboy> so people can help each other
[13:27] <christhecoolboy> with problems...
[13:27] <christhecoolboy> and it could be upgraded
[13:27] <ogra> see the latter page
[13:27] <ogra> it is a frontend to stackoverflow
[13:27] <ogra> supported by ubuntu
[13:28] <christhecoolboy> you dont understand
[13:28] <ogra> what you want already exists on http://askubuntu.com/
[13:29] <ogra> and that page uses http://stackoverflow.com/ as a backend
[13:29] <christhecoolboy> I get an idea
[13:29] <ogra> which is the same as OSQA
[13:29] <christhecoolboy> and I cant use it to my own extent
[13:30] <christhecoolboy> I wanted to do something
[13:30] <christhecoolboy> to put my mark on ubuntu
[13:31] <ogra> you said you wanted something like OSQA with ubuntu branding, which is exactly what http://askubuntu.com/ already provides
[13:31] <\sh> didrocks: I can't reproduce it right now...somehow screensaver is now behind unity...and after entering password, everything looks normal
[13:32] <christhecoolboy> orga, I want an idea that can help me get my postition
[13:32] <akshatj> Unity 2D is awesome!
[13:32] <christhecoolboy> but now, that Idea I thought I could use, I cant
[13:32] <ogra> akshatj, send flowers to Kaleo ;)
[13:32] <didrocks> \sh: yeah, it seems quite not reproduceable everytime. the stacking issue will be fixed soon, not sure about the second issue in the panel however…
[13:32] <akshatj> ogra: works perfectly but still a little slow due to bad drivers
[13:33] <ogra> i dont see slowness on my arm netbook (using framebuffer drivers only)
[13:33] <didrocks> akshatj: the drivers aren't the issue in unity-2d, it's more due to the CPU
[13:33] <didrocks> as all is CPU-based instead of GPU with opengl
[13:34] <ogra> akshatj, what kind of system is that ?
[13:34] <christhecoolboy> what web based things could I do / make for ubuntu to help get my position / make my mark?
[13:34] <akshatj> ogra: Pentium 4 1.7 Ghz
[13:34] <ogra> and *thats* slow ?!?
[13:34] <ogra> wow
[13:35] <akshatj> the 1845 drivers are bad
[13:35] <akshatj> *i845
[13:35] <akshatj> and they crash X randomly :(
[13:35] <ogra> i see unity-2d fly on an 800MHz 512MB arm netbook with xfbdev driver
[13:36] <akshatj> I am using the intel driver
[13:37] <christhecoolboy> does ubuntu.com have a sitemap?
[13:37] <christhecoolboy> so I can see what it has / doesnt have
[13:37] <ogra> akshatj, you should probably try to enfoce xfbdev
[13:38] <ogra> if the i810 driver is really an issue ...
[13:38]  * ogra hugs didrocks .... thanks for the quick fix 
[13:39] <christhecoolboy> I need to think of things I can do
[13:39] <christhecoolboy> to help ubuntu
[13:39]  * didrocks hugs ogra back, thanks for the notice!
[13:39] <christhecoolboy> without coding
[13:39] <christhecoolboy> online
[13:39] <akshatj> christhecoolboy: um, you can help people in #ubuntu
[13:40] <ogra> christhecoolboy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
[13:40] <christhecoolboy> akshatj, I wanna make my mark
[13:40] <christhecoolboy> show my position
[13:40] <ogra> there are a ton of suggestions
[13:41] <christhecoolboy> lol
[13:41] <christhecoolboy> what is #ubuntu-women?
[13:41] <akshatj> christhecoolboy: channel for women involved in Ubuntu
[13:42] <christhecoolboy> so should I mentor some of them?
[13:44] <akshatj> ogra: don't worry, my new hardware arrives on this wednesday :D
[13:44] <akshatj> with a quad core i7, I should be flying
[13:45] <joaopinto> chrisccoulson, about your idea, there is already a similia idea in place for desktop achievements, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/bringing-fun-back-to-the-desktop-with-omg-the-app/
[13:45] <joaopinto> ops, was for christhecoolboy
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> -ETOOMANYPEOPLECALLEDCHRIS
[13:46] <christhecoolboy> joaopinto, that isnt the same as my idea
[13:46] <christhecoolboy> my idea was to use unity
[13:46] <christhecoolboy> for full screen
[13:47] <joaopinto> chrisccoulson, "unity" is not something you use for application development
[13:47] <joaopinto> grrr
[13:47] <joaopinto> christhecoolboy,
[13:47] <akshatj> joaopinto: its renamed to 'Cheers' now
[13:48] <christhecoolboy> joaopinto, call nme
[13:48] <christhecoolboy> CTCB
[13:48] <christhecoolboy> *me
[13:50] <christhecoolboy> what would I do on #ubuntu-women?
[13:50] <christhecoolboy> would I mentor?
[13:50] <christhecoolboy> how would I do that :)
[13:50] <akshatj> christhecoolboy: well, you help report bugs in 11.04, that would be enough for making your mark
[13:50] <akshatj> +can
[13:51] <christhecoolboy> so what would I do if I went on #ubuntu-women?
[13:52] <christhecoolboy> I read about males tutoring women on ubuntu?
[13:52] <akshatj> dunno
[13:52] <christhecoolboy> If you are a woman wanting to get involved in the Ubuntu community, or if you're a man interested in increasing the diversity of the Ubuntu community, you can join the Ubuntu-Women team
[13:52] <christhecoolboy> ^thats what it says
[13:52] <akshatj> christhecoolboy: well, ask the people there
[13:53] <christhecoolboy> ok
[13:53] <christhecoolboy> :)
[14:17] <Kaleo> hi guys
[14:19] <akshatj> hi Kaleo
[14:21] <tedg> kenvandine, Things in general seem pretty good to me... are you seeing any bugs that look critical on your side?
[14:21] <tedg> kenvandine, Things not going away seems like the biggest.
[14:22] <Kaleo> akshatj: thanks for the good feedback :)
[14:23] <akshatj> Kaleo: I will be on Natty soon to report bugs ;)
[14:34] <Kaleo> akshatj: great!
[14:34] <Kaleo> akshatj: me too :)
[14:48] <ogra> didrocks, so for unity-2d we need that metacity patch (not sure you remember)
[14:48]  * spikeb is excited about this unity-2d stuff
[14:48] <didrocks> ogra: I remember to have been pinged about it. I asked for a bug/branch to see the patch :)
[14:48] <ogra> it apparently only is in effect if a gconf key is set so i dont understand why it was rejected
[14:49] <ogra> oh, i understood you rejected it already
[14:49] <Kaleo> spikeb: great :)
[14:49] <ogra> Kaleo, where ts the patch ?
[14:49] <Kaleo> ogra: let's have a look
[14:49] <spikeb> i love Unity, and I was sad to think that perhaps i couldnt use it on ARM or PPC (for nvidia macs).
[14:49] <spikeb> but now, oh boy! ;)
[14:50] <ogra> spikeb, it will be default on all arm images we build ;)
[14:50] <spikeb> ogra, awesome
[14:50] <spikeb> now i have no excuse not to get some arm hardware...my wallet isn't going to be happy
[14:50] <ogra> and if you actually have 3D drivers it will try to run the 3D version
[14:50] <ogra> get a pandaboard ;)
[14:50] <ogra> they are cheap and the most powerful stuff you can get atm
[14:51] <spikeb> thinking about it. or an efika mx
[14:51] <Kaleo> spikeb: the efika is not really .. fast
[14:51] <spikeb> Kaleo, that much i already knew heh
[14:52] <didrocks> ogra: no, I didn't
[14:53] <didrocks> ogra: I asked to be subscribe to something I can review :)
[14:53] <didrocks> subscribed*
[14:54] <didrocks> ogra: sorry, was disconnected
[14:54] <spikeb> hmm i just realized i can run unity-2d on my old work machine
[14:54] <didrocks> ogra: so yeah, I just asked for a branch/something I can review
[14:55] <didrocks> ogra: so that I can look at how it works and ensure we won't have side-effects in the other sessions
[14:55] <ogra> didrocks, yeah, i got that
[14:55] <didrocks> ogra: take care, that patch was written by a KDE guy (and French to make it worse :p)
[14:55] <ogra> hah
[14:56] <agateau> I am that bad!
[14:56] <didrocks> agateau: at least, two reasons, right ;)
[14:57] <didrocks> agateau: btw, how was your flight back?
[14:57] <ogra> the code itself looks good to me
[14:57] <agateau> didrocks: fine, and you?
[14:57] <ogra> it only acts on the gconf key
[14:58] <didrocks> agateau: didn't find any sleep, but fine still :)
[14:58] <ogra> i cant judge the theme stuff though, that needs a metacity expert
[14:58] <didrocks> ogra: can I see it? (and so, you enable the gconf key in the unity2d session?)
[14:58] <spikeb> hmm im going to have to put back that old machine together and try out the ppa for unity-2d.
[14:58] <ogra> didrocks, let me pastebin it
[14:59] <ogra> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/555098/ (ignore the debian/patches/series messup)
[15:00] <agateau> didrocks: do you want me to propose a branch of lp:~ubuntu-desktop/metacity/ubuntu with the patch?
[15:00] <ogra> agateau, it is a packaging patch anyway
[15:00] <ogra> if didrocks approves by the paste above i will just take care of it in the package
[15:01] <agateau> ogra: great, thanks
[15:01] <ogra> no need for additional paperwork ;)
[15:01] <agateau> :)
[15:02] <spikeb> well, it is a new week, so i want to thank everyone involved for helping make ubuntu rock.
[15:02] <ogra> you do that weekly ?
[15:02] <ogra> :)
[15:02] <spikeb> yes.
[15:02] <spikeb> i am that excited about ayatana's impact.
[15:02] <ogra> hmm, i should hang out more often in #ayatana we dont have such praise in the other ubuntu channels ;)
[15:03] <Kaleo> spikeb: glad to have you
[15:03] <spikeb> thank you.
[15:06] <spikeb> I am more of a fanboy than a contributor thus far, but that is slowly changing. :)
[15:07] <Kaleo> spikeb: moral support is very important!
[15:08] <nerochiaro> beer support is also very important ;)
[15:08] <bratsche> Morning.
[15:09] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: make it a nice Mendoza's Malbec
[15:09] <agateau> Kaleo: something is wrong with unity-2d milestones: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasmoidviewery13564 ... any idea?
[15:10] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll see if i can find out around here
[15:10] <Kaleo> agateau: oh god
[15:10] <Kaleo> agateau: no idea, it's definitely a lp bug
[15:10]  * agateau randomly picks a target
[15:11] <didrocks> ogra: agateau: sorry was distracted, looking now
[15:11] <ogra> didrocks, imho the code looks fine, i just cant judge theme.c and .h
[15:13] <didrocks> agateau: are you sure about (flags & META_FRAME_MAXIMIZED), it's not a composed mask?
[15:14] <didrocks> agateau: well, there is no vertical or horizontal maximization in metacity, isn't it?
[15:21] <multiplatinum> ivanka!
[15:21] <multiplatinum> are you Ivanka Majic, of the design team?
[15:30] <Amaranth> ogra: This patch changes the ABI for libmetacity-private, no?
[15:31] <Amaranth> I know the desktop team has never wanted to accept a patch from me that changed a libraries ABI
[15:31] <Amaranth> err, library's
[15:33] <Amaranth> But I suppose with upstream not caring much about metacity anymore it probably won't be an issue and afaik only compiz uses libmetacity-private outside of metacity itself
[15:34] <ogra> well, i dont think you actually need to change the ABI for adding a downstream change that adds an additional function
[15:34] <ogra> its not that it changes existing fucntions in a way that would affect anything
[15:34] <Amaranth> ogra: I meant the part where you add a MetaTheme argument to existing functions
[15:34] <ogra> ah, thats the part i said i cant judge
[15:35] <ogra> ;)
[15:35] <didrocks> agateau: did you see my ping? ^^
[15:35] <agateau> didrocks: (conf call)
[15:35] <Amaranth> The patch as a whole looks sane otherwise
[15:35] <didrocks> ok :)
[15:36] <Amaranth> didrocks: oh, metacity does have separate horizontal and vertical maximize
[15:37] <didrocks> so, the patch needs to (value & mask) == mask
[15:37] <Amaranth> yep
[15:37] <didrocks> Amaranth: and yeah, it's changing the ABI, so it needs a compiz rebuild and such
[15:38] <Amaranth> didrocks: but will the desktop team allow an ABI change that hasn't been approved by upstream?
[15:38] <didrocks> Amaranth: this one is quite tricky, I added a simple one for compiz last week, but it wasn't so much an issue
[15:39] <ogra> we could fork metacity and call it umetacity :P
[15:39] <Amaranth> hehe
[15:40]  * Amaranth tries to think of another way to achieve the same effect
[15:41] <didrocks> Amaranth: well, it's not like if we added an arg to a function, it's only adding something to a struct
[15:41] <Amaranth> didrocks: seb128 rejected adding to the end of an enum in libwnck once :P
[15:42] <didrocks> Amaranth: libwnck requires quite a big archive rebuild :)
[15:42] <didrocks> metacity "just" requires compiz AFAIK
[15:42] <Amaranth> that's the thing, it was adding not changing
[15:42] <Amaranth> no rebuilds needed, unless you wanted to use the new thing
[15:42] <Amaranth> but it brought the ABI out of sync with upstream
[15:43] <Amaranth> ah, and there he is :)
[15:43] <didrocks> Amaranth: hum, adding an element to a struct breaks the ABI and needs a rebuild?
[15:43] <ogra> speaking of the devil
[15:43] <didrocks> Amaranth: apart if there are empty slots of course
[15:43] <didrocks> or am I totally wrong?
[15:43] <Amaranth> didrocks: Yeah, if you add something to a struct that doesn't have padding you change the ABI because sizeof is wrong
[15:44] <Amaranth> didrocks: Although GTK+ has done that in the past and they decided anyone doing sizeof on the struct was wrong :)
[15:44] <didrocks> ahah :)
[15:44] <Amaranth> seb128: still on dallas time? :)
[15:45] <ivanka> multiplatinum: Hello! Indeed I am. Were you wanting something in particular
[15:46] <Amaranth> didrocks: oh, in case you didn't notice, I did the compiz plugin-extra upload
[15:47] <Amaranth> I dunno if I'm supposed to mark that in bzr or something, didn't want you to try to do it as well :)
[15:47] <didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, I noticed that, thanks! :)
[15:47] <didrocks> Amaranth: did you use the bzr branch? I didn't check
[15:47] <didrocks> let me look :)
[15:48] <Amaranth> didrocks: yeah, I merged andrewsomething's branch so what we have is what is actually in natty then updated the branch for the ABI change
[15:49] <didrocks> Amaranth: perfect, just a side note: we tend to use UNRELEASED instead of natty, and finally dch -r "" && debcommit -r
[15:49] <didrocks> that set it to natty + tag the branch with the revision
[15:49] <Amaranth> didrocks: ah, right
[15:49] <didrocks> Amaranth: thanks for taking care of that :)
[15:49] <Amaranth> I knew about UNRELEASED but didn't know how to update it afterward, I was always pushing stuff and having mvo pull and upload before
[15:51] <didrocks> Amaranth: it's just a dch -r "" (set it to natty, take care as it's updating the owner in changelog when you are doing sponsoring)
[15:51] <didrocks> debcommit -r is like debcommit + tagging
[15:52] <didrocks> the commit message becomes "Releasing <version>"
[15:52] <Amaranth> yeah, I saw those, now I know how they get created :)
[15:52] <Amaranth> thanks
[15:52] <didrocks> yw :)
[15:58] <multiplatinum> ivanka,  yeah, how often does Pidgin crash on you when you're connected to IRC?
[15:59] <ivanka> multiplatinum: pretty much never. I do sign in and out a lot though because I wander round the office connecting to different access points
[15:59] <ivanka> multiplatinum: why?
[16:00] <multiplatinum> was wondering if you got the same stupid thing going on like me, I'm using Xchat now, which crashes less often
[16:02] <multiplatinum> ivanka,  anyways, I got another question :P. Will I be able to change the orange selection color to blue in Natty?
[16:06] <ivanka> multiplatinum: Why blue?
[16:06] <multiplatinum> ivanka,  the blue from Clearlooks fyi, cuz the orange hurts my eyes in some cases
[16:06] <ogra> because blue is the new orange :P
[16:06] <multiplatinum> and what ogra said :D
[16:06] <Amaranth> eep, unity has forgotten about my terminals
[16:07] <ogra> Amaranth, *desktop*shell, you know ;)
[16:07] <Amaranth> I have a blank spot where the terminal icon should be and two terminal icons at the end of the list
[16:07] <kvalo> tedg: hi. I need some help with dbus signals
[16:09]  * Amaranth files bug
[16:10] <didrocks> Amaranth: blank terminal icon?
[16:10] <Amaranth> didrocks: yeah
[16:10] <didrocks> Amaranth: can you look at the list of the desktop file you have?
[16:10] <didrocks> gsettings get com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites
[16:11] <Amaranth> didrocks: there is a blank spot but it still gets a menu and such
[16:11] <didrocks> Amaranth: they should have the same order than your panel
[16:11] <didrocks> Amaranth: then, look at the desktop file to ensure there is an Icon= entry
[16:11] <multiplatinum2> got disconnected, can i see what's been said while i was away?
[16:11] <Amaranth> didrocks: they do
[16:11] <Amaranth> didrocks: it just went blank after running for a while
[16:12] <Amaranth> didrocks: It did this right after upgrading too but I just restarted compiz and it went back to normal last time, figured I should poke more since it happened again
[16:12] <didrocks> Amaranth: oh? it's becoming blank? So not the big I fixed saturday :)
[16:12] <Amaranth> yeah
[16:12] <didrocks> bug*
[16:12] <Amaranth> and yes, gnome-terminal.desktop has an Icon line :)
[16:12] <didrocks> fortunatly ;)
[16:13] <kvalo> tedg: I don't get this. I'm trying to send n-m StateChange signals manually with dbus-send. with dbus-monitor they look exactly same as the real signals sent by n-m, but still apps ignore my signals.
[16:13] <multiplatinum2> ivanka,  the blue from Clearlooks fyi, cuz the orange hurts my eyes in some cases
[16:15] <Amaranth> didrocks: filed a bug, is there anything apport doesn't automatically collect that I should provide before I restart compiz?
[16:16] <didrocks> Amaranth: well, I'm not sure it will provide enough info for that case. Just wait a second, looking for something
[16:16] <evilvish> multiplatinum2: in the theme you can change it from preferences
[16:17] <Amaranth> also, yay, another bug I can poke DBO about :)
[16:17] <multiplatinum2> evilvish,  but won't that mess up natty? i.e. the titlebar buttons in the top panel, and maybe some other things?
[16:18] <didrocks> Amaranth: you have a bamf dbus interface with views objects having Icon() method
[16:18] <evilvish> multiplatinum2: the title bar is dark what does that have to do with select color?
[16:18] <didrocks> Amaranth: but I can DBO can answer that later :)
[16:18] <Amaranth> didrocks: let me poke at it with d-feet, see what it shows
[16:18] <multiplatinum2> evilvish,  the titlebar buttons, even tho i will only change a color, it's not ambiance, so therefore the panel might mess things up (i think)?
[16:18] <tedg> kvalo, They're probably setting up their filters to only see the ones that come from NM.
[16:19] <evilvish> multiplatinum2:  there is a bug to allow the top panel to switch according to the theme.. though not a high priority ;)
[16:19] <tedg> kvalo, So the dbus server is blocking them as the filters aren't setup to allow other senders.
[16:19] <kvalo> tedg: but why does dbus-monitor still see my signals?
[16:19] <multiplatinum2> a bug you say?
[16:20] <tedg> kvalo, dbus-monitor sets up a wildcard filter, so it gets everything.
[16:20] <kvalo> tedg: ah, you are not talking about /etc/dbus-1 configs
[16:20] <evilvish> multiplatinum2: yup, a bug has been filed.. so you can subscribe to it …
[16:20] <kvalo> tedg: ok, understood. thanks a lot
[16:20] <tedg> kvalo, No, individual client filter setups.
[16:21] <ivanka> multiplatinum2: hmmm. This is my first day back at my actual desk this calendar year and I have been in meetings away from my email all day. Perhaps ping me about this next week and we can actually talk about it?
[16:21] <Amaranth> didrocks: well, that's not helpful. I have an application in bamf that has a blank name, application-default-icon, and some windows marked as children
[16:21] <evilvish> who broke unity!!! ;p
[16:23] <evilvish> why does panel keep loading during unity session.. :s
[16:23] <Amaranth> didrocks: they separate from that I have one for Terminal
[16:23] <Amaranth> s/they/then/
[16:23] <didrocks> Amaranth: ok, then, let's wait on DBO
[16:24] <didrocks> evilvish: what's your version of gnome-session?
[16:24] <Amaranth> didrocks: this is going to screw with my OCD heavily, hope he shows up soon :)
[16:24] <didrocks> hehe, probably after US holidays though :)
[16:25] <Amaranth> oh, right, I think I'm supposed to be off today or something
[16:25] <Amaranth> I don't pay attention to such things, I just see what day it is :P
[16:25] <evilvish> didrocks: gnome-session 2.32.1-0ubuntu10
[16:25]  * evilvish checks updates..
[16:25] <didrocks> evilvish: try ubuntu11, but ubuntu10 should be reasonable on that already
[16:26] <didrocks> Amaranth: hehe :)
[16:26] <evilvish> k..
[16:30] <Amaranth> hmm, I wish there was a tool to dump a dbus tree to file
[16:31] <Amaranth> I may have to write something to do so, or just figure the bug will happen again eventually
[16:31] <ogra> cant d-feet do that somehow ?
[16:31] <Amaranth> Hmm, forgot to look
[16:32] <Amaranth> Already restarted compiz, I'll go yak shaving next time it happens :P
[16:34] <multiplatinum2> ivanka,  what part didn't you get? :S
[16:34] <ogra> didrocks, are you still waiting for agateau answer or did you make a decision abut the metacity patch i missed ?
[16:34] <didrocks> ogra: i'm still waiting for agateau answer, yes, as it's possibly buggy
[16:35] <didrocks> ogra: in any case, this upload needs to rebuild compiz as well
[16:35] <ogra> k
[16:35] <agateau> didrocks: mmm... need to reread the patch to answer, hold on
[16:35] <ogra> didrocks, rebuild or code changes ?
[16:35] <didrocks> ogra: just a rebuild
[16:35] <ogra> i'll take care of that then
[16:36] <didrocks> ogra: but I would prefer someone to day that locally to ensure all is ok then
[16:36] <ogra> thats tricky since natty is so broken atm
[16:36] <ogra> i cant dist-upgrade here currently
[16:37] <ogra> (thanks to webkit)
[16:38] <didrocks> ogra: I can handle that tomorrow if nedded, I want to finish some hacking before
[16:38] <ogra> ok
[16:38] <ogra> i should be able to do maverick -> natty as well over night on arm ...
[16:38] <Amaranth> ogra: Right now the only thing I have affected by an upgrade is banshee
[16:38] <ogra> just webkit needs to get in sync again ... and thats building sicne 4h
[16:38] <Amaranth> Oh, you mean on arm
[16:39] <ogra> yes
[16:39] <ogra> we have that silly thing that arch: all packages are built on x86 ... so that brings the non x86 arches out of sync
[16:39] <Amaranth> webkit takes ~1 hour on my desktop, can't imagine it taking more than 5 hours on ARM
[16:39] <ogra> its 4h in
[16:40] <ogra> sprints/rallies are really bad for arm ;)
[16:40] <Amaranth> hehe
[16:40] <ogra> people tend to do uploads !
[16:40] <Amaranth> Before the sprint started webkit stuff was broken on x86 so it's got to be better than that
[16:41] <ogra> pffft
[16:41] <ogra> who cares about x86
[16:41] <ogra> thats so last decade
[16:41] <ogra> arm is the future
[16:41] <multiplatinum2> but arm is 32b
[16:41] <Amaranth> holy crap I don't get duplicated title bars anymore
[16:42] <ogra> multiplatinum2, who cares if you can have 32 cores for half the price and power of an x86 ;)
[16:42] <multiplatinum2> 32 cores? lol
[16:42] <ogra> s/power/power consumption/
[16:42] <agateau> didrocks: yes, I think it must be a bit check (as opposed to the '==') because flags can contain other info like META_FRAME_HAS_FOCUS for example
[16:44] <ogra> multiplatinum2, http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/09/arm-a15-a-game-changer/
[16:44] <agateau> didrocks: or did you mean there could be other bits indicating maximized windows?
[16:45] <Amaranth> hey with 32 cores we don't need a GPU :)
[16:45] <didrocks> agateau: right, if this is like compiz, maximized is done with vertically maximized and horizontally maximized bits
[16:45] <didrocks> agateau: so your check will match for either of those, which isn't good
[16:45] <agateau> didrocks:  MetaFrameFlags says has only META_FRAME_MAXIMIZED
[16:45] <agateau> s/says//
[16:45] <multiplatinum2> i know arm is the shit, but it's 32 bit, 64 bit is better right?
[16:45] <didrocks> agateau: ok, in that case, it should be ok. If someone will file a bug about it, I'll track you down ;)
[16:46] <agateau> didrocks: :)
[16:46] <ogra> Amaranth, yeah, GPUs are last decade as well :) just have more framebuffers ;)
[16:46] <didrocks> ogra: so, just need a compiz rebuild with that to check, I can do that tomorrow if needed
[16:47] <Amaranth> ogra: so the A15 is 64-bit then, right?
[16:47] <ogra> didrocks, ok, lets get together tomorrow again then, i'll take care for the metacity patching (so the upload has my name on it for blames)
[16:47] <didrocks> ogra: sure!
[16:47] <ogra> Amaranth, i think still 32
[16:47] <Amaranth> ogra: that blog says it can access 1TB of RAM
[16:47] <ogra> yeah
[16:49] <Amaranth> ogra: that's 40-bit address space
[16:50] <Amaranth> actually that's higher than an x86-64 CPU can manage...
[17:02] <multiplatinum2> so arm > 32bit and arm-15 > 64 bit?
[18:12] <dbarth> didrocks: mind if i switch https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/703140 to just high, since it doesn't crash or prevent unity from running?
[18:12] <dbarth> it's a regression though
[18:13] <didrocks> dbarth: it's a regression and people experience it can't use unity for more than 10 minutes without switching it off, it's unusable as distracting
[18:13] <didrocks> dbarth: I don't want that setting it as high will get it slip off for weeks
[18:13] <didrocks> or you will have a bunch of others not testing unity daily because of that bug
[18:29] <didrocks> ogra: how did you call the 2d session file in gnome-sessions?
[18:30] <ogra> didrocks, not at all yet
[18:31] <didrocks> ogra: to follow other schemas, can it be 2d-ubuntu.session ?
[18:31] <ogra> ah, the session file is called unity-2d iirc
[18:31] <ogra> we just dont enable a default yet (since we have not any usable images atm)
[18:32] <didrocks> ogra: ok, can it be renamed to follow the other schemas? (I'm making a change depending on that)
[18:33] <didrocks> ogra: I mean, the session file in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/
[18:33] <ogra> yeah, thats /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/unity-2d.session
[18:33] <ogra> we can surely rename that (needs checking with Kaleo)
[18:36] <didrocks> ogra: thanks :)
[18:37] <didrocks> you'll just need to sync that with /usr/share/xsessions/yoursession.desktop
[18:57] <Kaleo> ogra: sure it can be renamed
[18:59] <ogra> Kaleo, i'll take care tomorrow
[18:59] <ogra> (no hurry as long as we are not fully installable)
[19:00] <JamesMR> tedg: would I be right in thinking you're a good person to ask about custom indicator widgets?
[19:01] <tedg> JamesMR, Not sure, but I could probably point you in a better direction if not :)  What are you trying to do?
[19:01] <JamesMR> tedg: I'm looking to embed a webkit.WebView into an indicator
[19:01] <Kaleo> ogra: indeed :)
[19:01] <Kaleo> ogra: thanks for the great help
[19:02] <ogra> welcome, happy to take care of packaging issues :)
[19:02] <tedg> JamesMR, Please don't do that. :)  The indicators are designed to be menus.
[19:03] <JamesMR> is it illegal?
[19:05] <tedg> JamesMR, Heh, well, I doubt the police would enforce it even if I asked :)
[19:05] <JamesMR> tedg: would it be possible?
[19:06] <tedg> JamesMR, It would only be possible with a system indicator and not an application indicator.
[19:06] <tedg> JamesMR, You'll have a really difficult time dealing with all the grabs though.
[19:06] <JamesMR> Why is that?
[19:07] <tedg> JamesMR, Because menus have some special properties in X to make everything work correctly.  I'm quite sure that WebKit does it's grabs differently, so they'll probably fight.
[19:07] <JamesMR> aah
[19:12] <JamesMR> tedg: what if I were using it simply to display information?
[19:22] <Amaranth> JamesMR: Is there a reason you have to use a webview to display something small enough to fit in a menu?
[19:22] <JamesMR> I want it to look pretty
[19:23] <Amaranth> JamesMR: You can make it look pretty without webview :)
[19:23] <JamesMR> with shiny graphics?
[19:23] <Amaranth> heck, with cairo you can make it look however you want
[19:23] <Amaranth> JamesMR: webkitgtk is built on top of gtk and cairo so it makes sense to assume whatever you can do with a webview you can do with them
[19:24] <Amaranth> JamesMR: Do you have a screenshot or mockup of what you want to put in the indicator menu?
[19:24] <JamesMR> is there any easy way to do that with python?
[19:25] <Amaranth> well, there is pycairo
[19:29] <tedg> JamesMR, In general, if you want a window you should make a window.  Don't try to force stuff into a menu.  Use the menu as a list if things or, just have a window in general.
[19:30] <jfi> JamesMR, interest of appindicator is to be homogeneous (same behaviour, same interaction,etc), you will remove this advantage if you do a custom display
[19:31] <JamesMR> If I'm looking to create an applet to display information about the environment, and want to make it look nice, but feel that a full app/window is just too much
[19:31] <JamesMR> what would you suggest I do?
[19:34] <tedg> JamesMR, Well, it of course depends on the information.  But, I'd look at working with the gnome-system-monitor folks...
[19:35] <JamesMR> sorry, real world environment, not computer =/
[19:36]  * tedg forgot about that environment -- is that the thing that looks like my screensaver?
[19:37] <JamesMR> could be
[19:37] <tedg> JamesMR, In general, I'd recommend the app approach.  There's no reason that it can't pop-up an application indicator when there is important information.  Or to make the window call for attention.  Both of those will notify the user.  Think of it more like a music player, where it might be minimized a lot, but that doesn't take away from it.
[19:38] <JamesMR> right
[19:56] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: the workspace switcher branch is pretty neat!
[19:56] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: thanks, lots of work needed there though
[19:57] <nerochiaro> Kaleo: what happened to mumble ?
[19:58] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: I'm still there
[19:58] <Kaleo> nerochiaro: arent you?
[22:19] <jono> heya folks
[22:19] <jono> which package do I file  bugs against for the global menu?
[22:35] <tedg> jono, Depends what the bug is :)
[22:36] <jono> tedg, I sorted it
[22:36] <jono> filed it against indicator-appmenu
[22:36] <jono> GIMP menus not showing
[22:36] <tedg> jono, Hmm, okay.  On Natty?
[22:37] <jono> tedg, yup
[22:37] <jono> other apps seem to work fine
[22:39] <tedg> Uhg, happens to me too.
[23:04] <nmarques> guys mind of a question... is it really needed to build dbusmenu with introspection for non-devel purposes ?
[23:05] <Amaranth> nmarques: the introspection stuff is used at runtime for dynamic languages
[23:05] <Amaranth> nmarques: so if you don't want any python apps, sure :)
[23:06] <nmarques> Amaranth, I'm trying to build this on a non-ubuntu platform, but the latest updates are giving me very strange errors :/