[00:00] <phononlogger> oh
[00:00] <phononlogger> I am all good at it
[00:00] <phononlogger> as long as I do not need to push it
[00:00] <phononlogger> I always mess up the pushing
[00:00] <phononlogger> JontheEchidna: what state are you from again?
[00:00] <JontheEchidna> I got the path to libqapt messed up for when it was in playground :<
[00:00] <JontheEchidna> I specified playground/sysadmin instead of playground/libs
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> I had run the svn-all-fast-export thingy but it only went back to kdereview
[00:01] <JontheEchidna> now I have to go and have that thing run through all 1,000,000 commits again
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> I already have 3 fans :) http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php?action=content&content=137507
[03:31] <jjesse> DarkwingDuck how did you doc weekend go?
[03:31] <DarkwingDuck> It went...
[03:31] <DarkwingDuck> slow
[03:31] <DarkwingDuck> but im not working
[03:31] <DarkwingDuck> soooo
[03:31] <DarkwingDuck> this week will be nice
[03:33] <jjesse> yay
[03:33] <jjesse> any fun commits?
[03:38] <DarkwingDuck> Not yet. I'm finishing things off with 10.10 before I jump into 11.04 but, I think I'm going to switch gears into 11.04 
[03:39] <DarkwingDuck> Then finish up 10.10 once we know that 11.04 if finished.
[03:40] <jjesse> what do you mean by finish up 10.10?
[03:42] <DarkwingDuck> 10.10 never got updated.
[03:42] <DarkwingDuck> Gimme about 30... finishing up a LoCo meeting
[03:43] <jjesse> i'll be in bed by 30
[03:43] <jjesse> the problem with updating the documents is that translations need to get updated as well
[03:45] <DarkwingDuck> Yeah
[03:45] <DarkwingDuck> Only reason I'm worried about it is because it is our LTS
[03:45] <jjesse> ?
[03:45] <DarkwingDuck> and if any docs should get backported it should be the LTS release.
[03:46] <jjesse> umm 10.04 was lts
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> .me blinks
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> Nevermind then.
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> See?
[03:46] <DarkwingDuck> I'm all messed up.
[03:47] <DarkwingDuck> 11.04 takes priority
[03:56] <jjesse> ok
[05:35] <CIA-39> [sysadmin] jmthomas * 1214966 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ Muon has moved to git (https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/muon/)
[05:36] <CIA-39> [sysadmin] jmthomas * 1214967 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (. README) Add a note saying where Muon has moved to
[05:36] <JontheEchidna> LibQApt's conversion still has 900,000 commits to go, so I'll have to get to that in the morning
[08:25] <steveire> milian: Real men build their own Qts :)
[10:25] <afiestas> In 11.04 after the appmenu-qt package being installed, should "Global menu" be working?
[11:24] <shadeslayer> sigh
[11:24] <shadeslayer> My ISP implemented a 'fair usage' policy
[11:24] <shadeslayer> time to change ISP's
[14:24] <KRF> hey, how can i find out the configure flags used for the libqt-core4 package?
[14:29] <Riddell> afiestas: it'll also need new libdbusmenu-qt
[14:30] <Riddell> if it doesn't work after that, poke agateau 
[14:32] <afiestas> agateau: pingt
[14:33] <shadeslayer> heh
[14:33] <shadeslayer> Riddell: emacs doesnt work properly if you telnet from a windows machine into a Red Hat server :P
[14:34] <shadeslayer> and my phone now runs a kernel newer than my current desktop install o_o
[14:34] <davmor2> shadeslayer: I think you end that sentence after properly to be honest ;)
[14:35] <shadeslayer> davmor2: i dont follow :P
[14:35] <shadeslayer> which one?
[14:35] <davmor2> shadeslayer: emacs doesnt work properly if you telnet from a windows machine into a Red Hat server :P
[14:35] <shadeslayer> the emacs one?
[14:36] <shadeslayer> ah
[14:36] <shadeslayer> heh :D
[14:36] <shadeslayer> i had to use vi .... and i had *no* knowledge of vi
[14:41] <agateau> afiestas: pongt
[14:43] <Riddell> KRF: look at the build logs  usource:qt4-x11
[14:48] <KRF> Riddell: thank you
[15:02] <ScottK> Quintasan_: What's next on SIP?
[15:16] <shadeslayer> ScottK: i think he gave up :P
[15:17] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i <3 emacs 
[15:17] <shadeslayer> i just started to use it properly
[15:17] <ScottK> shadeslayer: I just did a python3-defaults upload for him yesterday, so I hope not.
[15:24] <shadeslayer> ih
[15:24] <shadeslayer> oh
[15:26] <CIA-39> [sysadmin] jmthomas * 1215080 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/ Remove LibQApt from svn. It has move to KDE's Git repos.
[15:28] <afiestas> agateau: dbusmenuqt is not working here (11.04)
[15:28] <CIA-39> [sysadmin] jmthomas * 1215081 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/ (. README) Leave a README for the LibQApt move to KDE Git.
[15:28] <afiestas> I think I got everything, appmenu-qt, plasmoid and lib
[15:28] <agateau> afiestas: sorry I am about to start a conf call
[15:28] <JontheEchidna> afiestas: same here :(
[15:28] <agateau> afiestas: will ping you back
[15:28] <afiestas> ookiz
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> (same here == global menu not working, not about conf call :)
[15:30] <JontheEchidna> Hah, I got an email from kde-apps notifiying me about a comment I posted to my app's page :P
[15:39] <shadeslayer> we should have something like this http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/why-use-ubuntu
[15:39] <shadeslayer> :D
[15:42] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Get to work on it then.
[15:42] <shadeslayer> ScottK: trying to learn emacs and Model/View in Qt first :P
[15:43] <shadeslayer> ScottK: wrote this along with Riddell tho http://piratepad.net/kubuntucreate
[15:45] <ScottK> shadeslayer: OK.  phononlogger should probably review it.
[15:45] <shadeslayer> phononlogger: ^^
[15:49] <davmor2> shadeslayer: nano ftw ;)
[15:50] <shadeslayer> davmor2: lol ... i thought so too until about a hour ago
[15:50] <CIA-39> jmthomas * 1215086 * branches/stable/extragear-kde4/sysadmin/libqapt/ Remove the LibQApt stable branch from svn. LibQApt has moved to KDE's Git repository
[15:50] <shadeslayer> davmor2: http://www.vimeo.com/1013263
[15:50] <JontheEchidna> davmor2: I got this bug report filed against me :P bug 490506
[15:50] <shadeslayer> lol
[15:52] <CIA-39> jmthomas * 1215088 * branches/stable/extragear-kde4/sysadmin/libqapt/ (. README) Add a note detailing LibQApt's move from svn to KDE's Git
[15:52] <davmor2> kate ftw!
[15:53] <Quintasan_> Why doesnt KDE has this by default?
[15:53] <Quintasan_> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Quick+Usb+Formatter?content=137493
[15:58] <ScottK> NCommander: Congratulations.
[15:58] <ScottK> Quintasan_: Ping re SIP.  How goes it?
[15:58] <afiestas> Quintasan_: I was planning on doing something like that
[15:58] <afiestas> in fact, I already have some code
[15:59] <Quintasan_> ScottK: I think I'm stuck unless POX thinks of something
[15:59] <ScottK> Quintasan: What's the issue?
[15:59] <Quintasan> ScottK: -dbg package is still empty and some damn files from ./usr/lib/python3.1 still land in python3.1
[16:00] <Quintasan> ScottK: We install them via install-arch-3.% rule but they still somehow land in python-sip
[16:00] <ScottK> Quintasan: OK.   Well that last bit definitely sounds like POX's thing to work on.
[16:00] <Quintasan> ScottK: I meant then land in python-sip instead of python3-sip
[16:00] <ScottK> Right.
[16:01] <ScottK> For now could you just move them over in debian/rules?
[16:01] <Quintasan> To be honest, I never saw anything packaged so badly
[16:01] <Quintasan> It has install files in debian/ while I never saw any stuff apart from debian/rules being installed
[16:01] <ScottK> Would it be easier to start fresh?
[16:02] <ScottK> Does dh_install get called?
[16:02] <Quintasan> http://paste.ubuntu.com/555119/
[16:02] <Quintasan> I don't really get it
[16:03] <Quintasan> $(MAKE) -C dbg-build-3.$* install DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/python3-sip-dbg
[16:03] <Quintasan> makes sense
[16:03] <Quintasan> but dbg stuff still lands in python-sip-dbg
[16:05] <Quintasan> ScottK: I'll do my homework and then try doing it
[16:12] <ScottK> Thanks
[16:17] <ScottK> Quintasan: Do you have a verbose build log?
[16:35] <agateau> afiestas: conf call is done
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> agateau: I'm not afiestas, but I can confirm what he is saying about how the dbusmenu is broken in 11.04 w/ the latest updates
[16:54] <agateau> JontheEchidna: can you be more precise? is it the appmenu? the systray menus?
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> oh, globalmenus
[16:57] <agateau> JontheEchidna: I am confident this is because plasma-widget-menubar 0.1.14 has not been packaged yet
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> everything's been updated, and I've done a complete reboot since then, but the apps are not seeing the menubar and still have the menubar in their windows
[16:57] <agateau> Riddell: ^^
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> oh, if that's all I could even do that
[16:57] <agateau> JontheEchidna: give it a try
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> will do
[16:58]  * agateau starts dist-upgrading his natty vm, but that will take a while
[17:00] <afiestas> agateau: whereI can grab the code ?
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> afiestas: http://launchpad.net/plasma-widget-menubar/trunk/0.1.14/+download/plasma-widget-menubar-0.1.14.tar.bz2
[17:00] <agateau> ah, JontheEchidna is much faster than me :)
[17:00] <JontheEchidna> I already had the page open :)
[17:04] <NCommander> ScottK: thanks
[17:04] <agateau> have to go, keep me posted if it is still broken
[17:21] <afiestas> agateau: working like a charm now
[17:21] <afiestas> good idea using json to transport the menu
[17:28] <JontheEchidna> I've uploaded 0.1.14 to natty
[17:28] <Riddell> thanks JontheEchidna 
[17:57] <yofel> o/
[17:57] <Riddell> evening yofel 
[18:29] <JontheEchidna> I was wondering when they'd finally rename this library: http://i.imgur.com/rLGj7.png
[18:30] <JontheEchidna> libwebkit was a bit arrogant, imo
[18:51] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: nice ! :)
[18:59] <ximion> shadeslayer: Is there an Anjuta-rebuild in progress? (Due to the libwebkit -> libwebkitgtk transition it's broken...)
[18:59] <shadeslayer> ximion: no idea :(
[19:00] <ximion> who should I ask?
[19:00] <yofel> ask in #ubuntu-devel rather I think, or file a bug
[19:00] <shadeslayer> ximion: #ubuntu-motu?
[19:01] <ximion> filing a bug seems sane - I wonder why nobody noticed that... (nobody uses Anjuta *g*)
[19:04] <ximion> bug 703996 already exists :)
[19:06] <ximion> JontheEchidna: hi :)
[19:07] <JontheEchidna> ximion: hello
[19:07] <ximion> JontheEchidna: You're the author of QApt and Muon, right?
[19:07] <JontheEchidna> ximion: yep
[19:08] <ximion> JontheEchidna: Would it - just theoretically - be possible to replace the QApt daemon with the PackageKit daemon? If not, why?
[19:09] <JontheEchidna> you mean for the installation bits?
[19:09] <ximion> yes, I mean just for all the stuff which needs superuser rights (installations etc.) - everything which invokes the daemon.
[19:10] <JontheEchidna> it would take a bit of work to change over to the PackageKit DBus api, but I suppose it would be possible in theory
[19:10] <JontheEchidna> I don't see why you'd want to make one package management library depend on another thoguh
[19:13] <ximion> JontheEchidna: PK is an abstraction framework for package management (you knew that :P) I maintain PK in Debian and I'm contributor to it. We had this idea once to unify all the APTDaemon, PackagKit and QApt-Daemon stuff in just one library.
[19:13] <JontheEchidna> I would not mind a single daemon to do such things.
[19:14] <ximion> so, if you have PK frontends (Apper/GPK) Muon and several other package management tools running, you just get one daemon started, with an excellent implementation of APT
[19:15] <JontheEchidna> I don't want to use APTDaemon's, though, because then I'd have to have LibQApt depend on python-apt. Basically what I'm saying is that I would want the worker to use libapt-pkg directly
[19:16] <ximion> PK and its backend bases on C/C++ (I'm also a bit antipathetic to this Python stuff)
[19:16] <ximion> I thought you developed QApt-Daemon because the PK API was insufficient or something...
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> That was before it supported debconf at all. That was a major factor, but I also don't like how it has to fetch info over dbus to browse packages
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> APT is very fast because it has a binary package cache it maps to memory
[19:18] <ximion> our suggestion is only to send actions which need to be queued or need root access over dbus to PK
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> yeah, none of these complaints are with the installation API
[19:19] <ximion> so we can perform fast searches by using APT directly and also get the full range of PK benefits.
[19:19] <JontheEchidna> But doesn't the entire backend run as the daemon?
[19:20] <ximion> the search API is extremely slow, cause you always have to reopen the cache... but since pk is transaction-based, it's an issue which cannot be solved, unfortunately.
[19:20] <ximion> the packagekit daemon loads the backend, which is a shared library.
[19:21] <ximion> so its application -> pk-daemon(apt) not app -> pk-daemon -> apt-daemon
[19:21] <ximion> if I got this right :P
[19:22] <JontheEchidna> so it's like this? application ->pk-daemon -> aptcc library -> dpkg
[19:22] <ximion> yep
[19:22] <ximion> btw: the apt backend will be dropped next time and aptcc will become the new apt backend (and will be extended to support some "missing" features)
[19:23] <JontheEchidna> that's a lot of what I don't like about PackageKit. Since it has to accomodate every packaging system ever, the abstraction layer makes it hard to integrate well with the system you want
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> for example, the search API has to be generalized, so you don't get to make use of APT's memory-mapped package cache effectively
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> I think it would be good to have a unified installation API, but I have serious doubts about the "read-only" bits of the API
[19:25] <ximion> that's why we don't want to use PK for "power tools" in Debian.
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> and why I made Muon :)
[19:26] <ximion> you might want to join #packagekit and ask hughsie for API changes - of there's a good reason for it and other backends support the feature too, he normally agrees to change the stuff.
[19:28] <ximion> I always tried to persuade dantti to make a _separate_ UI for the application installer instead of merging it into the KPackageKit main window...
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> yeah. that
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> that's always been my biggest peeve with the Ubuntu Software Center too
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> they're trying to make it a replacement for both Synaptic and Gnome App Install
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> when you can suit both groups of users so much better if there are two GUIs
[19:29] <ximion> the Muon Software Center looks great, while Apper is neither a power-user tool nor a full user-centric tool. (But I use Apper, since I'm a PK enthusiast and it covers all daily-life user-cases)
[19:30] <ximion> unfortunately dantti persuaded hughsie to do the same for GNOME, I don't know with which argument.. need to ask him next time ^^
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[19:34] <ximion> there are a few debian-related pk issues left: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=packagekit
[19:34] <ximion> but the'll all be solved with a better APT backend.
[19:35] <ximion> btw: what I mentioned is no fixed strategy, just an idea by two apt developers, dantti and me.
[19:35] <ximion> so it might change completely :P
[19:36] <ximion> (but I don't think so, cause it could be a sane solution to have the global package manager and Debian/Ubuntu comfort at the same time)
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> well I'm for a global daemon for admin-needing actions just as long as it doesn't add any new dependencies past the daemon itself
[19:38] <JontheEchidna> oh, I've been meaning to mention this to dantti since I saw it affected aptcc too: https://projects.kde.org/projects/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/repository/revisions/ef91f217549785af15c38c558d38eb42cbdc8e56
[19:39] <ximion> it does not. pk is very lighweight, just sqlite, dbus, glib
[19:39] <JontheEchidna> why does it need sqlite? O_o
[19:41] <ximion> excellent question! eh... don't know exactly, but pk has a feature to freeze transactions when a laptop goes standby or has low battery. then it saves transactions in a sqlite db.
[19:41] <ximion> (but I did not take a closer look at this yet)
[19:41] <ximion> http://packages.debian.org/sid/packagekit
[19:42] <ximion> (pinned a mark to ask dantti if he git that patch)
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> I would think that apt/dpkg really wouldn't support that... I have muon inhibit suspension during commits
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> because once you are committing, you really can't stop it
[19:43] <ximion> need to ask hughsie about this stuff... stumbled upon the code while hacking PkTransaction and the helper stuff for Debconf and Listaller support, I just guessed what it does.
[19:44] <ximion> (but I think someone said this some time ago)
[19:44]  * ximion is away to fetch some food :)
[20:04]  * ximion is back
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> I find comments like these funny: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/?content=137507
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> He wouldn't be complaining if there was just a single muon package that was 2 MiB big :P
[21:17] <debfx> JontheEchidna: he probably just wants to motivate you to package muon for debian ;)
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> Actually I think somebody has packages on mentors.d.o
[21:18] <JontheEchidna> I'd like to maintain debian packages, but I don't really have the resources to run a separate debian box
[21:20] <Daskreech> JontheEchidna: 2mb is Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
[21:20] <Daskreech> Mostly cause it's a gateway drug :) 
[21:25] <ulysses> JontheEchidna: the Muon 1.2 translations will be imported to KDE SVN for translation, right? so it doesn't neccessary to checkout the git branch
[21:25] <JontheEchidna> ulysses: it's still using the standard kde infastructure
[21:26] <JontheEchidna> just what's been in l10n-trunk will be moving to l10n-stable, and l10n-trunk will change as strings change in git
[21:27] <ulysses> doesnt't make sense now, Hungarian is on of the complete translations^^
[21:59] <phononlogger> shadeslayer: that priatepad has all funky colors
[21:59] <phononlogger> good text though