[00:00]  * virtuald wonders how apt invokes gpg
[01:19] <EOF-sensei> How may I install gimp in natty?
[01:19] <EOF-sensei> it depends on libwebkitgtk which is no longer present
[01:20] <nit-wit> EOF-sensei, I have had a partital udate sitting on my natty is yours the same
[01:21] <EOF-sensei> urhh
[01:21] <EOF-sensei> initially it was holding back gimp
[01:22] <EOF-sensei> maybe there was a version that didn't depend on it that I had rpior
[01:24] <EOF-sensei> :'(
[01:25] <EOF-sensei> this conundrum makes me feel like ripping out my eyeballs and inserting them into my rectum
[05:44] <illuminaris> Can anyone help me troubleshoot the low FPS on World Of Warcraft?  I'm running Ubuntu 11.04, Wine 1.2.1 and an ATI Radeon 9800. The graphics card plays fine in Windows but not Linux.
[10:20] <coz_> has anyone tried lightspark?
[10:27] <multiplatinum> hello there
[10:28] <multiplatinum> will i be able to change the selection color in natty without messing up anything? will the titlebar buttons still display properly in the top panel? (even though i ddint change them, ill use a different theme)
[10:28] <coz_> multiplatinum,   if you are using classic gnome there should be no issue changing themes  if that's what you mean
[10:29] <coz_> multiplatinum,   I havent tried much themeing in Unity howeer
[10:29] <multiplatinum> coz_,  ill be using unity
[10:29] <multiplatinum> i just wanna change the orange to blue cuz it hurts my eyes when using chromium
[10:30] <coz_> multiplatinum,   mm  ok...   try  the Appearace  settings to see if it can be changed
[10:30] <multiplatinum> coz_,  i cant run unity on my PC ><
[10:31] <multiplatinum> i tried the 2D one too and i couldnt access the theming
[10:31] <coz_> oh!
[10:31] <coz_> multiplatinum,   why is that ?
[10:32] <multiplatinum> i tried right clicking on my desktop and nothing appeared like in regular Gnome
[10:32] <coz_> multiplatinum,  no  that isnt there in unity
[10:32] <coz_> multiplatinum,   can you open a terminal?
[10:33] <coz_> multiplatinum,    the command would be   gnome-appearance-properties
[10:35] <multiplatinum> ill try that when im in unity, thx
[12:56] <leagris> Hello,
[12:58] <leagris> I have issues in 10.10 with latest updates using compiz and classic desktop. Compiz commands are not available when application windows are focused. Example, no zooming with super+wheel or dragging with alt+LMP if a window is focussed. Need to click background window 0 to get it working.
[12:59] <leagris> oups 11.04
[13:00] <leagris> for what I guess dead key events like super, alt or ctrl are not transmitted to compiz when a window is focussed. Worked last week and got broken these last days
[13:02] <leagris> for example, SUPER+BUTTIN4 (wheel-up) should zomm in compiz enhanced zoom but instead the BUTTON4 event is sent to the focussed application window, here in xchat, it is scrolling text up
[13:08] <leagris> I had to craft an Xorg.conf file to get 3D acceleration with my radeon 9200 because it fail otherwise, a shame doing this on a allpurpose (easy) distro. No one should have to edit cryptic commands in text config files. This worked out of the box in 10.10. This is a strong regression
[13:09] <leagris> IMHO (if that matter), natty should be delayed more. I can't imagine how it could go out wild in the public with the many crash and display issues I get with it
[13:11] <leagris> Or is that having 3072 Mb of ram with 32bit kernel/distro a bat idea
[13:11] <leagris> bad
[13:11] <bazhang> its alpha 1
[13:26] <jadams> hi, on both my machines running natty (nvidia proprietary driver) compositing stopped working last week after an update.  I don't find anything about this problem with cursory googling.  Anyone seen this or know what my next move should be w/r/t diagnostic?
[13:37] <susundberg> hmm
[13:38] <susundberg> i am also running natty with (almost) latest drivers
[13:38] <qzio> is it safe to apt-get install xorg-server-core keyboard-configuration ?
[13:38] <jadams> susundberg, do you have compositing still functioning?  Is it nvidia?
[13:38] <susundberg> ah yes, seems like i have disabled efects
[13:38] <susundberg> at least such way it seems to work ok
[13:39] <jadams> yeah, but for me full screen flash sucks as well :(
[13:39] <qzio> err, which one is safe to go? xserver-xorg-core or console-setup ?
[13:40] <jadams> Xorg.0.log says composite was enabled, but nothing seems able to use it
[13:40] <susundberg> seems like mine is working at least one youtube video showed properly
[13:40] <susundberg> (fullscreen flash)
[13:40] <susundberg> (nonfree, adobe)
[13:41] <jadams> susundberg, it runs fine for me, but since compositing stopped working high def videos are choppy in fullscreen
[13:41] <jadams> and i rely on compiz features a lot (zoom, grid, etc)
[13:41] <susundberg> ya
[13:42] <susundberg> i turned it off as i am trying to do opencl development and i do not want any extra happing around
[14:01] <BluesKaj> Howdy
[14:06] <patdk-wk> heh, I upgraded from to nvidia 260 drivers, those are freaking fast
[14:07] <BluesKaj> yup nvidia 260.19.29 here , seems fine
[14:09] <BluesKaj> using the the 8400s ...just a MOR card noyhing real fancy , good for HD movies on our tv . Which nvidia do you use , patdk-wk
[14:10] <patdk-wk> currently, in that machine, dual gt240's
[14:10] <patdk-wk> the 260driver gave me 26% increase in speed for 3d
[14:10] <BluesKaj> glxgears?
[14:11] <patdk-wk> na, much more evil :)
[14:11] <patdk-wk> in windows7 in vmware :)
[14:12] <patdk-wk> I only loaded those for the cuda3 stuff
[14:12] <BluesKaj> patdk-wk, I've been looking the nvidia equivalent for fglrxgears , the 3D cube that ati provides
[14:34] <Ian__> patdk-wk: did you use the nvidia binary from the site or do you have a ppa hosting the newer drivers?
[14:35] <patdk-wk> downloaded from nvidia cuda page
[14:35] <Ian_Corne> ah ok
[14:35] <patdk-wk> turning out to be a pain on kernel upgrade though
[14:35] <Ian_Corne> yeah
[14:36] <Ian_Corne> that's why I was asking :p
[14:36] <patdk-wk> :)
[14:36] <Ian_Corne> I've got the same problem with my laptop, and it doesn't work with older nvidia drivers so..
[14:37] <patdk-wk> I wonder if my work setup here is fixed or not :(
[14:37] <Ian_Corne> when will we start seeing .38 in the repo?
[14:37] <patdk-wk> been having the oddest issues, ever since I upgraded to lucid
[14:38] <patdk-wk> if I get too many, or a few complex windows open, the screen starts flashing on and off, for unknown amount of time, then works
[14:38] <patdk-wk> sometimes xorg just crashs though
[14:39] <Ian_Corne> Haven't had that yet
[14:39] <patdk-wk> me either, except on this one machine
[14:39] <Ian_Corne> But I haven't been using my computers alot this last month
[14:39] <patdk-wk> my other nvidia systems, 4 of them, are just fine
[14:43] <patdk-wk> it was running a 6200 card though, just pulled it and put in a nvs card I had here, but it's getting reported at a Geforce 9300GE
[14:43] <patdk-wk> see if it was just the old card having issues or not
[14:45] <mlmg317-himts> Hello everyone.  Quick question.  So this was kind of strange.  I recently ran my updates via Update Manager, as is standard.  Well, when I rebooted one time recently - my computer came up in Natty Narwhal (Alpha 1 version).  Then, when I shut down and turned it on again - it reverted back to Maverick Meerkat.  I'm like, "Jigga what?"  Can anyone explain this?
[14:46] <SwedeMike> mlmg317-himts: it's a cosmetic error, there is a bug against it.
[14:47] <BluesKaj> hmmm micahg run lsb_release -a to see what version
[14:48] <BluesKaj> oops , mlmg317-himts lsb_release -a
[14:48] <BluesKaj> micahg, sorry tab/typo
[14:49] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: Yeah - it's telling me it's running Ubuntu 10.10 - codename Maverick.  So wha the heck is going on.  How do I get rid of this bug?
[14:50] <mlmg317-himts> SwedeMike: Got any ideas as to how to get rid of this bug.  Or is there nothing I can do about it (besides re-install) until the real version is released at the end of April?
[14:50] <BluesKaj> mlmg317-himts, run an update in the cli , avoid using the update manager
[14:51] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: cli?
[14:51] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: command line interface.   Got it.  What is the command?
[14:53] <BluesKaj> sudo apt get update first , then lsb_release -a , then if your still on maberick run sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[14:54] <BluesKaj> err excuse the spelling , my bifocals are giving me trouble
[14:55] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: No problem.  Thanks.  I'm sure this will work.  I'm glad someone know what they are talking about.  Other people were just telling me to re-install, which is a real hassle ...
[14:55] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: Well, not really - but why do it if you don't have to ... ya know?
[14:57] <BluesKaj> mlmg317-himts, well it is a reinstall of sorts if your OS has regressed or if the the update manager didn't upgrade your install
[14:58] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: Yeah - true dat :)
[15:00] <BluesKaj> mlmg317-himts, at this level of linux use , some command line skills are necessary
[15:02] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: I totally agree.  I'm still learning.  It's fun :)  Your suggestion is working.  Now in Natty Narwhal - I did have problems running freshclam.  It told me that there was a lock on freshclam.log.  When I asked others about - I eventually realized after running a few commands - that it was already running?  Again, I was like "Jigga what" - auto updates !?
[15:03] <BluesKaj> sorry , not familiar with freshclam
[15:03] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: It's the command you run to update clamav signatures ...
[15:04] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: which is standard procedure before running any virus scanner, of course ...
[15:04] <BluesKaj> ok, I'm not using clamav
[15:04] <BluesKaj> !virus
[15:06] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: I see.  I know.  I run them anyway - clamav and AVG - just to be a responsible user.  You are still interacting with Windows users - so I find it a way of still being responsible.
[15:07] <BluesKaj> mlmg317-himts, ok  , so you're in a "work" environment or an active home environment, I understand :)
[15:09] <BluesKaj> wife runs vista on her pc and I have samba access but I normally keep any downloads on this pc
[15:11] <BluesKaj> and we have some of the best antivirus and antimalware apps on her pc
[15:14] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: No - I just run Ubuntu on my home network.  I have a laptop.  No one else uses my Internet here - unless I give them access through Mac filter.  And usually just guests when they come to visit.  What is samba?
[15:15] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: MAC address filter, I mean ...
[15:15] <BluesKaj> !samba | mlmg317-himts
[15:18] <BluesKaj> mlmg317-samba is ok, but mostly I just ssh into my other linuxbox and Imac on the network
[15:19] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: I see.  I don't really do any Windows networking.  But this good to know :)  What is ssh?
[15:20] <bazhang> !ssh
[15:24] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: Yeah.  I am going wait on the full upgrade to Natty Narwhal.  Better to wait until the full release is out.  Otherwise, it's just a bunch of hassle working with bugs and what not.  Better not to "stir the pot" until the "water's boiling" so to speak ...
[15:25] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: As I was running those commands you gave me, it gave me the option to say "yes" or "no" to the full upgrade.  Good thing it did ...
[15:26] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: I had the same experience with 10.04 LTS when I was running 9.10.  10.04 LTS wasn't necessarily stable until Maverick Meerkat came out.  I know they release beta versions in order to test it, identify bugs, and weed them out.  But for the user, it can end up being a real hassle ...
[15:27] <mlmg317-himts> BluesKaj: But I guess that is SOP - when you are working with a user supported OS ...
[16:40] <evilvish> is it ok to remove "libindicator1"?
[16:41] <evilvish> grr.. /me still has unresolved deps.. unity-place-* just does not want to say installed..!
[16:43] <om26er> unity-places need to be build against latest dbumenu
[16:44] <evilvish> bah!! :(
[16:44] <om26er> or libindicate (?)
[16:55] <evilvish> what is the password for the guest session? (from gdm)
[16:56] <evilvish> if i hit enter with blank , it says auth failure.. same with 'ubuntu'
[17:01] <susundberg> hmm
[17:02] <susundberg> if its installer, you should have one console open i guess
[17:02] <susundberg> i mean ctrl + f1/f2 should be open
[17:02] <susundberg> (or may be that i just remember incorrectly)
[17:05] <evilvish> nah.. i guess my install is broken pretty bad.. :s
[17:06] <evilvish> i'd probably wait for everything to get build and reinstall.. ;)
[17:06] <evilvish> built*
[17:21] <dupondje> mmm, any idea how I change my LC_MESSAGES ?
[17:22] <dupondje> it defaults to a weird value :)
[17:23] <rapha> Hi all!
[17:24] <rapha> How do I get a DVD burner to work that shows this in dmesg: http://pastie.org/private/8ypwjvdsp9pke3dexzdw ?
[18:56] <geser> dupondje: language-selector (or how it's called) or edit ~/.dmrc
[18:57] <geser> I used the second method and edited my .dmrc to have a sane value again
[19:46] <donniezazen> What happened to daily live? The last update was on Jan 12th
[19:47] <charlie-tca> see the topic. It is broke
[19:48] <charlie-tca> You can use the daily image, though
[19:52] <wrst> has anyone had an issue with broadcom wireless not working ?
[20:05] <hackeron> hey, can someone point me to how to start services in natty? - before I would do /etc/init.d/git-daemon-run start but it seems t obe in /etc/service/git-daemon now :/
[20:06] <hackeron> and this doesn't return anything: # service --status-all 2>&1 | grep -i git
[20:06] <hackeron> any ideas?
[20:08] <Pici> !upstart
[20:08] <Pici> perhaps ^
[20:10] <hackeron> # stop git-daemon-run
[20:10] <hackeron> stop: Unknown job: git-daemon-run
[20:10] <hackeron> :/
[20:11] <hackeron> when I do  sudo runsvdir /etc/service - it tries to start git-daemon-run but it fails because it's already running :/
[20:13] <charlie-tca> tried stop git-daemon ?
[20:13] <hackeron> # stop git-daemon
[20:13] <hackeron> stop: Unknown job: git-daemon
[20:15] <charlie-tca> hm, sudo service git-daemon stop ?
[20:15] <hackeron> #  sudo service git-daemon stop
[20:15] <hackeron> git-daemon: unrecognized service
[20:15] <charlie-tca> at least that is the syntax now
[20:16] <charlie-tca> hm, does    ps -a | more show it even running?
[20:16] <hackeron> service --status-all doesn't show git at all in the list :/
[20:16] <hackeron> # ps aux | grep -i git
[20:16] <hackeron> root     21582  0.0  0.0    112    28 ?        Ss   20:02   0:00 runsv git-daemon
[20:16] <hackeron> gitlog   21583  0.0  0.0    132    48 ?        S    20:02   0:00 svlogd -tt /var/log/git-daemon
[20:16] <hackeron> 115      21585  0.0  0.0   8872   752 ?        S    20:02   0:00 /usr/lib/git-core/git-daemon --verbose --base-path=/var/cache /var/cache/git
[20:17] <hackeron> what's runsv?
[20:17] <charlie-tca> don't know
[20:18] <hackeron> seems to be part of runit
[20:18] <hackeron> so natty uses runit instead of upstart for some things now?
[20:21] <yaaar> i've been wondering for a while what the deal is with the proliferation of these service-starting systems. what was wrong with /etc/init.d/ scripts anyway?
[20:21] <hackeron> startup was much slower I guess but I wish they'd pick one and stick with it :/
[20:32] <Guest45698> I could not see Visual Effects tab in system-> preferences how to enable it ?
[20:34] <charlie-tca> Visual Effects enabled compiz, which is now enabled by default in Natty, to the best of my recollection.
[20:35] <Guest45698> what is kde3 ?
[20:35] <charlie-tca> kde3 was used in Kubuntu before kde4.5 that it uses now. It is a different desktop environment
[20:36] <charlie-tca> !ked
[20:36] <charlie-tca> !kde
[20:38] <Guest45698> thanks for that explain but i do have compiz installed but no Advanced Desktop tab appear
[20:40] <charlie-tca> Natty uses compiz by default, there is no need for the tab to enable it
[20:40] <charlie-tca> um, you using Kubuntu?
[20:41] <Guest45698> I had do upgrade before Unity got updated and my card what not recongnized before
[20:41] <charlie-tca> It is still automatic when enabling the ubuntu-desktop session
[20:42] <Guest45698> charlie-tca can you remotely log into my desktop ?
[20:42] <charlie-tca> no
[20:43] <Guest45698> so Ubuntu is not Windows yet hehe
[20:45]  * charlie-tca has enough issues remote logging into his own computers
[20:45] <Guest45698> what is that option Remote Desktop from Preferences menu
[20:47] <charlie-tca> It is the client for vnc
[20:47] <charlie-tca> You still have to set up the server side yourself on the system you want to remote login into,
[20:48] <Guest45698> It said your desktop is only reachable over local network ?
[20:49] <charlie-tca> What said that?
[20:49] <Guest45698> When is checked enable local sharing option
[20:50] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu does not enable anything allowing outside systems in by default. You have to set everything up to allow that, if you want it.
[20:54] <Guest45698> youre right. i guess its a kinda tunneling like vnc private network
[20:58] <BluesKaj> I tried to install vnc at least twice, dunno why i could neverget it to run properly...it was slow and clunky and would time out , freeze the pcs it was installed on
[21:32] <hackeron> how do I add and remove stuff from different runlevels? - the upstart getting-started docs don't seem to cover that?
[21:37] <hackeron> if I want to remove something from a runlevel, is something like this the right way to do it? < rm /etc/rc*/*git-daemon
[21:37] <hackeron> or from all runlevels rather
[21:38] <charlie-tca> runlevels aren't used with upstart
[21:39] <BUGabundo> olá
[21:39] <hackeron> so how does upstart know what to start at boot?
[21:39] <charlie-tca> You can remove files from the runlevel to keep it from being used
[21:39] <charlie-tca> everything in runlevel 2 will run
[21:39] <hackeron> charlie-tca: right, so upstart uses runlevel 2?
[21:40] <charlie-tca> no, it uses /etc/init , but it allows you to use runlevel 2 to start things
[21:40] <hackeron> so what's /etc/rc* used by?
[21:40] <BUGabundo> erk
[21:40] <BluesKaj> hackeron, http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_linuxes/Ubuntu/managing_services_in_ubuntu.shtml
[21:40] <BUGabundo> compiz is acting up strange
[21:40] <BUGabundo> and notify is messed up
[21:40] <charlie-tca> it is not so easy no more
[21:41] <hackeron> BluesKaj: seems outdated
[21:41] <hackeron> BluesKaj: is there an official reference?
[21:41] <genii-around> hackeron: If you add your scripts in the usual previous way with update-rc.d, they can still be called as upstart services thanks to /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf
[21:42] <hackeron> genii-around: is there some official documentation for all this?
[21:42] <genii-around> hackeron: There is but woefully lacking
[21:43] <charlie-tca> search for blogs about it, there is some good information there
[21:43] <genii-around> hackeron: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki/
[21:43] <hackeron> genii-around: yeh, that doesn't cover anything to do with /etc/rc* or how to add/remove services
[21:43] <genii-around> hackeron: As I said,  woefully lacking
[21:44] <hackeron> :(
[21:44] <hackeron> guess there's this, but yeh, not much info < https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBootupHowto
[21:46] <hackeron> so something like "sudo update-rc.d myscript defaults 98 02" is still valid? -- and can I use stuff like start on postgresql to make myscript start after postgresql?
[21:48] <charlie-tca> Might want to take a look at http://upstart.ubuntu.com/wiki    for information, too
[21:50] <hackeron> charlie-tca: I'm looking but what exactly there shows how to use start on started?
[21:50] <charlie-tca> Haven't read it myself
[21:50] <alex_mayorga> anyone else getting video corruption on gnome-do with nvidia cards?
[21:52] <charlie-tca> hackeron: I think that would be "man start"
[21:53] <genii-around> hackeron: Any script you add with update-rc.d still gets started as before
[21:54] <hackeron> charlie-tca: no, start on is a "stanza", start is a command - start doesn't understand stanzas :/
[21:54] <charlie-tca> and, as said above, documentation is woefully lacking
[21:54] <hackeron> genii-around: so what do I need to do to make use of stanzas like start on started networking?
[21:55] <hackeron> charlie-tca: *sigh*
[21:55] <genii-around> hackeron: You can make your own .conf file in /etc/init for it in that case
[21:56] <hackeron> genii-around: oh, so any script in /etc/init.d that gets executed by init also uses a config in /etc/init/ automatically?
[21:56] <alex_mayorga> Can anyone take a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/555238/ and tell me why my HD was trashing so badly moments ago?
[21:57] <hackeron> alex_mayorga: your hard drive is dead - replace it
[21:57] <alex_mayorga> hackeron: how do you tell?
[21:58] <alex_mayorga> hackeron: thanks BTW
[21:58] <genii-around> hackeron: /etc/init is where the upstart scripts are. the /etc/init.d is where the old sysinit scripts live. If you have an old-style sysinit in /etc/init.d then it gets executed by the /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf which is upstart. If a conf file in /etc/init however, gets started as native upstart job
[21:58] <hackeron> alex_mayorga: things like ata1.00: failed command: FLUSH CACHE EXT and the fact that it's trashing
[21:59] <hackeron> genii-around: hmm, can I paste that paragraph to the top of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBootupHowto - that really explains a lot :P
[21:59] <genii-around> hackeron: Sure, feel free
[22:04] <hackeron> genii-around: added - much better :)
[22:06] <hackeron> genii-around: question, there's a lot of configs in /etc/default/* to control how scripts in /etc/init.d/ behave - is the same directory used to tune upstart scripts, or are they all self contained in /etc/init/?
[22:07] <yofel> hackeron: they are still used, see apport as an example
[22:07] <yofel> (/etc/default/* I mean)
[22:07] <genii-around> hackeron: I do not know for sure, but suspect as before the settings in /etc/default are just pre-sets for whichever services (however they are begun)
[22:07] <hackeron> yofel: they are used by upstart or traditional sysvinit scripts or both?
[22:08] <hackeron> genii-around: which services, upstart ones, sysvinit ones or both?
[22:08] <genii-around> hackeron: Any which calls it
[22:08] <yofel> hackeron: both, depends on the service, you can see in /etc/init/apport.conf that it sources /etc/default/apport
[22:08] <genii-around> hackeron: eg: /etc/default/cron  is valid for the cron service, whichever system starts it
[22:09] <hackeron> yofel: hmm, but there is also /etc/init.d/apport too?
[22:09] <yofel> hackeron: that is a symlink here
[22:09] <yofel> 803146 0 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 21 2011-01-11 14:47 /etc/init.d/apport -> /lib/init/upstart-job
[22:09] <yofel> which makes sure old sys-v-init syntax isn't broken
[22:11] <hackeron> yofel: hmm, I see, looks like the same with cron - so then some scripts are just standalone upstart scripts, others are just traditional sysvinit scripts that get executed by upstart and some are started by /etc/rc*?
[22:12] <yofel> wait /etc/rc* ONLY affects sys-v-init scripts in /etc/init.d - upstart ignores that as far as I know
[22:12] <yofel> and upstart config files aren't scripts - they have a script part, but you can't just execute them as you can with sys-v-init scripts
[22:13] <hackeron> yofel: I thought upstart starts all those too, but using /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf?
[22:13] <genii-around> upstart config files are more like definitions of what conditions are to be met before a particular thing can run
[22:14] <yofel> hackeron: it does, but it /etc/rc* only configures the old sys-v-init script, for native upstart script /etc/rc* has no effect
[22:14] <hackeron> yofel: but the script part just executes the sys-v-init script in /etc/init.d/?
[22:14] <yofel> hackeron: no, read the files in /etc/init - the script is in the file, upstart doesn't use /etc/init.d at all for its native services
[22:14] <hackeron> yofel: what is a native upstart script? - seems things like /etc/init.d/cron and /etc/init.d/apport are traditional sysvinit scripts that are executed by upstart?
[22:15] <hackeron> yofel: say I'm reading /etc/init/cron.conf - it does exec cron -- where is this cron? - I thought it just called /etc/init.d/cron?
[22:15] <yofel> hackeron: no, those are symlins to a script that makes sure the upstart service gets started so things like '/etc/init.d/apport start' still works
[22:16] <yofel> as upstart itself has no idea what '/etc/init.d/apport start' is support to mean
[22:16] <yofel> it only understands 'start apport' or 'service apport start'
[22:17] <yofel> hackeron: and no, the cron that is run from /etc/init/cron.conf is /usr/sbin/cron
[22:17] <hackeron> yofel: oh, I see, ok, well looking at the one for cron, it seems to run upstart-job cron.sh start?
[22:17] <hackeron> yofel: so upstart-job cron.sh start is the same as start cron?
[22:17] <yofel> /etc/init/cron.conf and /etc/init.d/cron have nothing in common except that latter is a backwards compatibility layer
[22:19] <hackeron> yofel: ah, ok, I think I'm starting to get it
[22:19] <yofel> as for upstart-job, I don't know, I don't know upstart that deeply
[22:20] <hackeron> yofel: and then you have /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf which executes stull in /etc/init.d/ with init as a backward compatibility thing too, right?
[22:20] <hackeron> stuff*
[22:20] <yofel> yeah, /etc/init/rc-sysinit.conf makes sure that those services that aren't yet ported to upstart still work
[22:23] <hackeron> yofel: ok, added a short description, did I get anything wrong there? < https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBootupHowto#Outdated
[22:24] <yofel> hackeron: replace 'upstart-job' with 'service' - that script seems to run a .sh, but that seems to be upstart internal
[22:24] <yofel> service XY start  will work with both sys-v-init and upstart services
[22:25] <hackeron> yofel: hmm, I got the upstart-job bit from /etc/init.d/cron - does the script need to be updated to use service?
[22:25] <yofel> no idea, but I get: upstart-job: command not found
[22:26] <hackeron> hmm, ok, I'll check it to service
[22:26] <yofel> and '/etc/init is where the upstart init scripts are. ' - while correct essentially, upstart config files aren't scripts, they have a script part, but they are still config files
[22:30] <genii-around> yofel: Apologies on my simplstic terminology for that earlier
[22:31] <yofel> it's not like you were exactly wrong..
[22:31] <hackeron> yofel: they are config files, but they do the execution of whatever is necessary, right? - I'll make a note they are config files :)
[22:31] <yofel> upstart is confusing
[22:32] <yofel> hackeron: yes, that make sure the service is prepared and executed, but you would expect that you can execute a script, but 'exec /etc/init/apport.conf' won't do anything useful
[22:32] <yofel> *they make sure
[22:34] <hackeron> yeh, I get it, thanks :) - so to execute upstart init configs, you use the service command
[22:37] <hackeron> yofel: so for general day to day use, should I use service something start or just start service?
[22:38] <yofel> start service is shorter, but errors on sys-v-init stuff, so I usually just stick to service xy start
[22:40] <hackeron> yofel: so the equivalent to update-rc.d apache2 defaults would basically have to be to add a config file to /etc/init/ ?
[22:40] <BUGabundo> I still can't open OOo :(
[22:40] <BUGabundo> freezes compiz
[22:41] <yofel> hackeron: bad example - no, apache uses a sys-v-init script, so you can use update-rc.d for it fine (I think)
[22:42] <hackeron> yofel: no, I know, I mean like if you wanted to have an upstart service, say your own
[22:42] <hackeron> yofel: there isn't a concept of adding things to runtime far as I can tell, I just change the config or add a config in /etc/default to control if the service should be started by upstart, right?
[22:42] <yofel> yeah, you would add a config file to /etc/init/ and put what it needs into the start on statement
[22:43] <yofel> hackeron: that's how I see most services doing it
[22:46] <hackeron> yofel: how's this? :) < https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBootupHowto#Since Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy Eft)
[22:47] <yofel> edgy? I know upstart has been around for a while - but we only started to actually use it recently
[22:47] <hackeron> yofel: wikipedia and the upstart home page say used in ubuntu since edgy
[22:48] <hackeron> from upstart.ubuntu.com: Ubuntu 6.10 and later
[22:48] <hackeron> "Ubuntu 6.10 added several new features including a heavily modified Human theme, Upstart init daemon, automated crash reports"
[22:48] <hackeron> from wikipedia
[22:48] <hackeron> so looks like we haven't had documentation for this for 5 years now :P
[22:49] <yofel> yeah, but only in karmic most of the system services were converted, before that it was pretty much only sys-v-init scripts using the compatibility layer
[22:50] <hackeron> hmm, well, the information still applies no? - I mention uses for both sysvinit scripts and new upstart configs - or do you think I should add a note?
[22:50] <yofel> leave it, I don't think too many people are going to bother will EOL releases..
[22:54] <hackeron> yofel: thanks for all the help, I'm understanding this a lot better now :)
[22:54] <yofel> np, we all had our fun learning that in karmic, when stuff suddenly didn't work as we were used to :D
[22:56] <hackeron> heh, I managed to get away from learning it all, I just added a sleep 30 to my /etc/rc.local script :P - want to do it properly now though
[23:57] <hackeron> Added some basic documentation for the Ubuntu init system and how to get started, can someone please proof read and let me know if anything doesn't make sense? < https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBootupHowto