[01:44] <RoAkSoAx> howdy all! I was wondering if anyone has any word about the LAFile removal as per http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/LAFileRemoval
[01:46] <micahg> RoAkSoAx: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-libraries
[01:48] <RoAkSoAx> micahg: cool, thanks for pointing that out !!
[01:51] <micahg> RoAkSoAx: if you're wondering when something was implemented you can see it here: /usr/share/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.txt.gz
[02:01] <RoAkSoAx> micahg: k thanks ;)
[03:05] <ShapeShifter499> hi
[03:30] <ShapeShifter499> YokoZar you there?  I need to ask you something..
[03:57] <SpamapS> slangasek: interesting.. I wonder if that is intended.. that a missing env var does not match the empty string.
[03:59] <SpamapS> slangasek: I think it might be worth ammending man 5 init to state that clearly
[04:17] <SpamapS> slangasek: ok I see the op order problem too. doh. BTW, why doesn't the restart command work on portmap? seems like it just runs the pre-stop then does nothing
[05:18] <slangasek> SpamapS: ah, restarting *portmap* worked... it's that statd wouldn't restart as intended when portmap starts up again
[05:19] <slangasek> SpamapS: my fixes are all committed and pending in the main bzr branches now
[05:25] <SpamapS> slangasek: so I think it would be worthwhile to file a bug against upstart to improve the explanation of environment variables in the start on and env portions.
[05:26] <SpamapS> slangasek: do you see where running 'restart portmap' fails to actually restart portmap?
[05:26] <slangasek> it doesn't fail to restart portmap, afaik?
[05:27] <slangasek> it just fails to restart statd afterwards, which it's meant to
[05:27] <slangasek> bug against upstart> agreed, please do :)
[05:29] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/554975/
[05:30] <slangasek> oh, I see
[05:30] <slangasek> yes, confirmed here
[05:30] <slangasek> no idea why
[05:30]  * slangasek pokes a bit more
[05:30] <SpamapS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/554976/
[05:30] <SpamapS> there's the info level log from init
[05:31] <slangasek> yep
[05:32] <SpamapS> never gets the killed state
[05:33] <slangasek> I think that needs reporting as an upstart bug
[05:33] <SpamapS> yeah I'm looking at restart_action right now in trunk
[05:33] <SpamapS> I think it just toggles, waits for a change, then toggles again, rather than waiting for stopped
[05:34] <slangasek> portmap seems to be the only job I have on my system with a pre-stop command that one would likely restart, so I guess this escaped notice that way
[05:34] <slangasek> fortunately the portmap maintainer scripts use stop + start instead
[05:34] <SpamapS> score 1 for serendipity
[05:35] <slangasek> also fortunately, we can't use the 'restart' command directly in maintainer scripts in general, because it doesn't DTRT regarding policy's definition of sensible behavior of not-yet-running jobs :)
[05:35] <SpamapS> oh right I recall reading that thread on a bug report
[05:36] <SpamapS> so does invoke-rc.d restart do stop/start ?
[05:36] <slangasek> yes
[05:36] <SpamapS> I wonder if this proves nasty upstream if we should change 'service' too
[05:38] <slangasek> er... more precisely, it's /lib/init/upstart-job that does this; and I wonder if I'm just reading it wrong on a Sunday night, but this doesn't look terribly correct to me
[05:40] <slangasek> oh, no, it's correct.  but it doesn't do stop/start :)
[05:40] <slangasek> so this upstart bug *does* affect use of invoke-rc.d
[05:43] <SpamapS> right, so the way restart happens it does job_change_goal(stop);job_change_goal(start);  ... running the pre-start causes upstart to return from job_change_goal
[05:46] <slangasek> hee
[05:46] <SpamapS> yeah the logic in job_change_state makes it spin until the job's state == the next desired state, not the exact (stop/waiting) state
[05:48] <SpamapS> so actually its only by mistake that we even end up sending KILL to the process
[05:48] <SpamapS> since the state progression is pre-stop->killed->waiting
[05:48] <SpamapS> well killed->post-stop->waiting
[05:48] <SpamapS> but pre-stop and post-stop are optional so I wonder if post-stop screws this up too
[05:51] <slangasek> in happier news, I've just submitted a patch to Debian bug #577040
[05:51] <slangasek> so that's one bit of the new policy done...
[05:51] <SpamapS> hooray, maybe I can get the mongodb maintainer to accept our upstart script then. :)
[05:52] <SpamapS> only affects pre-stop
[05:53] <slangasek> preferably not until we also get lsb-base and lintian converted over. :)
[05:53] <slangasek> (and the policy change accepted!)
[05:54] <SpamapS> its what every kid hacking away on his slink box in 1999 dreamed of.. enacting policy change :)
[05:55] <SpamapS> wow I had to check on it, but my guess at 1999 being when I installed slink appears to be accurate.
[05:56] <slangasek> heh
[06:00] <SpamapS> It was a happy, happy day. Followed by even more happiness when potato arrived. :)
[06:05] <ebroder> slangasek: is there a link to the new policy i could see?
[06:05] <slangasek> ebroder: Debian bug #591791
[06:05] <ebroder> cool, thanks
[06:10] <SpamapS> slangasek: fyi, opened bug 703800 against upstart
[06:10] <slangasek> SpamapS: \o/
[06:13] <SpamapS> I bet this also affects if something starts on / stops on stopping portmap
[06:19] <SpamapS> hmm no .. just pre-stop interesting
[06:26] <SpamapS> hmm.. looks like its specifically the way pre-stop is run...
[06:31] <SpamapS> yes.. looks like if we're running a pre-stop it changes the goal to 'respawn' instead of leaving it at stop.
[06:32]  * SpamapS tumbles further down the rabbit hole
[06:39] <SpamapS> aha! and respawn from state pre stop changes teh goal back to start instead of stop which seems to be the intention
[08:41] <dholbach> good morning
[09:01] <ebroder> happy belated birthday, dholbach
[09:01] <dholbach> thanks a lot ebroder!
[09:24] <pitti> Good morning
[09:24] <ev> @pilot in
[09:24] <ev> morning, pitti
[09:33] <amitk> ev: is it a known bug that the natty live-cds for mac (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20110112/) don't show text in the installer
[09:33] <amitk> ?
[09:33] <amitk> ev: on macbook pros, that is
[09:33] <ev> can you elaborate on what you mean by "don't show text"?
[09:33] <ev> are you talking about isolinux or ubiquity or what?
[09:35] <amitk> ev: This is a live cd image. The dialog boxes for the installer (ubiquity) are blank. Moving the mouse around shows that there are active areas and pressing enter seems to move to the next dialog. But I can't see any text in the boxes.
[09:36] <ev> is this just in ubiquity or any GTK application?
[09:36] <amitk> ev: Nothing on the desktop either
[09:37] <amitk> can't see the ubuntu menus, icons, etc.
[09:37] <ev> hm
[09:38] <ev> Does a non-gtk application work? Say, xterm?
[09:38]  * amitk starts downloading an iso not 'optimised' for macs
[09:39] <amitk> ev: it is a bit hard to start apps when I can't see anything on the screen, just window borders and empty dialog boxes
[09:40] <ev> amitk: you could always ctrl-alt-f2; DISPLAY=:0 xterm
[09:44] <didrocks> good morning
[09:44] <mvo> good morning didrocks
[09:45]  * dholbach hugs ev
[09:45] <didrocks> hey mvo! how was your travel back?
[09:46] <mvo> didrocks: not too bad, I managed to find some sleep in the plane but had a hard time waking up this morning
[09:46] <mvo> didrocks: and yours?
[09:48] <didrocks> mvo: I switch my seat with a pregnant woman who wanted to be next to the toilets. Unfortunatly, my two new neighbours were moving a lot and I couldn't manage to sleep. So hard to wake up as well this morning :)
[09:53] <christhecoolboy> hey all :)
[10:13] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: perl> I don't care
[10:13] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: ok. btw. system-tools-backends is ready.
[10:14] <christhecoolboy> I have an idea for a program that would come part of ubuntu
[10:15] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: do you want to write a new program or want to pack existing program?
[10:15] <christhecoolboy> ari-tczew, to use an exsisting program/resource to create a new thing
[10:16] <christhecoolboy> I could explain more if you want :)P
[10:16] <christhecoolboy> *:)
[10:16] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: yes, I saw the e-mail already
[10:29] <christhecoolboy> hmm... Silence :(
[10:36] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: I'd like to encourage you to contribute to Ubuntu development instead creating new project :)
[10:36] <christhecoolboy> But its part of ubuntu
[10:36] <christhecoolboy> to come as part of the OS
[10:36] <christhecoolboy> ari-tczew^^
[10:38] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: fixing bugs and packaging is also paty of the OS
[10:38] <amitk> ev: I can see 'text' on non-gtk apps. I was able to launch xterm and get a shell
[10:38] <christhecoolboy> my idea is a bigt one?
[10:38] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: which idea?
[10:39] <christhecoolboy> a program to be part of ubuntu
[10:41] <christhecoolboy> so what I am doing is contributing to Ubuntu Development
[10:41] <christhecoolboy> as it would be part of the OS
[10:43] <christhecoolboy> and it could also possibily give the opportunity for ubuntu to be open to a new market
[10:43] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: being a developer is very important part of the OS
[10:44] <Laney> christhecoolboy: There's a channel for app developers: #ubuntu-app-devel :-)
[10:45] <christhecoolboy> I was told to come here
[10:45] <christhecoolboy> so I did, Laney
[10:45] <Laney> by someone in that channel?
[10:45] <christhecoolboy> by someone in #ayatana
[10:45] <cjwatson> that was inappropriate of them, I'm afraid
[10:46] <Laney> Well, it depends exactly what you want to do, but if you are proposing to develop a new application then the channel I suggested is the correct venue to discuss it.
[10:46] <christhecoolboy> Laney,  but it uses an exsisting resource from ubuntu
[10:46] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: evilish asked you to post on the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list, not to discuss on the #ubuntu-devel channel, isn't it? (or was it before I joined)
[10:47] <christhecoolboy> there wasnt an email where he showed me
[10:47] <cjwatson> we know, but if everyone who wanted to discuss building applications on Ubuntu came here, then we wouldn't have anywhere to discuss things that are already in Ubuntu
[10:47] <christhecoolboy> so I entered here
[10:47] <christhecoolboy> and it was before you were in
[10:47] <christhecoolboy> njpatel
[10:48] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy: do you have an idea of program, though?
[10:48] <christhecoolboy> yes
[10:49] <ari-tczew> christhecoolboy:  what is it?
[10:50] <Laney> ari-tczew: please, in the other channel
[10:50] <christhecoolboy> ari-tczew,  a gaming platform called "Ubuntu Games Center" that uses unity to create a XBOX 360 style looks and allows for achievements, leaderboards and people to create their own games
[10:50] <ari-tczew> sorry Laney
[10:50] <Laney> np
[10:51] <evilvish> didrocks: evilvish  , not evilish  ;p
[10:52] <didrocks> evilvish: yeah, I noted that after :-)
[10:53] <evilvish> just saying , not evilish , but fully evil :p
[10:56] <ev> amitk: perhaps file a bug against gtk+2.0 or pango?
[10:56] <christhecoolboy> ari-tczew, I say my idea
[10:57] <christhecoolboy> and I dont get any responce? :(
[10:58] <evilvish> !patience > christhecoolboy
[10:58] <cjwatson> once you have developed your application, it might be appropriate to discuss its integration here
[10:59] <christhecoolboy> cjwatson, but then that destroys the whole idea?
[10:59] <cjwatson> I don't see why
[10:59] <christhecoolboy> since I need to spread the word around and try and get help from some people
[10:59] <christhecoolboy> or suggestions
[11:00] <cjwatson> you can do that elsewhere, I'm sure
[11:00] <cjwatson> this isn't a good place for it
[11:00] <christhecoolboy> I was told to come here
[11:00] <cjwatson> I know
[11:00] <cjwatson> I'm sorry that you were given mistaken advice
[11:00] <christhecoolboy> because "if its gonna be intergrated in to the os, #ubuntu-devel is the place to go, they develop stuff for ubuntu"
[11:01] <cjwatson> the thing is that thousands of people are trying to develop one thing or another for Ubuntu; this is the central coordination channel, not a place for them all to try to gather support.  It would get pretty impractical
[11:01] <christhecoolboy> ok, where do I go to try and get help or suggestions?
[11:02] <cjwatson> mailing lists, blog about it, people already suggested #ubuntu-app-devel, etc. ...
[11:02] <christhecoolboy> I dont wanna spread the word
[11:02] <christhecoolboy> until I know I can get some help
[11:02] <christhecoolboy> I cant do a whole project by myself
[11:02] <christhecoolboy> I have only just started
[11:02] <christhecoolboy> so I was told to "ask around"
[11:03] <cjwatson> well, it's IRC, it's asynchronous, you shouldn't expect anything immediately anyway
[11:06] <christhecoolboy> ok, someone told me to go to #ayatana because it involved unity, then they said to go to #ubuntu-desktop  because they maintain what goes in to ubuntu, then #ubuntu-devel, because they make and Intergrate much of Ubuntu, now #ubuntu-app-devel . where next?
[11:07] <christhecoolboy> Sadly, thats 8 or so hours that just went in a endless loop
[11:07] <cjwatson> you'll likely have to get something interesting-enough started before people really get interested, I expect
[11:08] <christhecoolboy> but I need people to help
[11:08] <christhecoolboy> since I cant do it all by myself
[11:08] <cjwatson> mostly, people don't really jump in until there's something started
[11:08] <cjwatson> otherwise they would have started it themselves :)
[11:08] <christhecoolboy> I need the support
[11:10] <christhecoolboy> I want some people who can help me code but work with me...
[11:10] <cjwatson> the best way to attract such people is to have an interesting skeleton of a project that they can then send patches for
[11:10] <christhecoolboy> I cant build the skeleton
[11:11] <christhecoolboy> cause I dont know code
[11:11] <cjwatson> most such people won't come to something without even a skeleton; they already have lots of things to do
[11:11] <christhecoolboy> thats why I want someone to help me learn :(
[11:11] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: looking at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/17/%23ayatana.html, njpatel told you first to go to #ubuntu-desktop, but then, he told you that "it might actually make more sense to email ubuntu-devel list, so people can think and respond". So his advice it correct, please consider it
[11:11] <cjwatson> I think you may have to learn to program first, then
[11:11] <cjwatson> which is rather more general than Ubuntu
[11:12] <christhecoolboy> didrocks, I did that
[11:12] <christhecoolboy> but I couldnt find an email on that link
[11:12] <christhecoolboy> so I came here
[11:12] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[11:12] <evilvish> christhecoolboy: i gave you the link with the email id
[11:12] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: a lot of developers keep the entry about Vcs-Bzr in debian/changelog. even dholbach and robert_ancell.
[11:12] <didrocks> christhecoolboy: "11:34:09        evilvish | christhecoolboy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss"
[11:12] <cjwatson> however, better would be:
[11:12] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
[11:13] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: nevertheless, it should be removed
[11:13] <cjwatson> we should keep debian/changelog concise and useful
[11:13] <dholbach> ari-tczew, ?
[11:13] <dholbach> ari-tczew, I didn't do a merge myself for a long long time
[11:13] <christhecoolboy> patel gave me: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Communication
[11:14] <christhecoolboy> and that said about the IRC
[11:14] <christhecoolboy> but I couldnt find an email address
[11:14] <cjwatson> christhecoolboy: you've now been given an appropriate link several times
[11:14] <christhecoolboy> yes, but I cant send the email until I have something set up
[11:15] <ari-tczew> dholbach: I mean that you didn't have objections about this one in d/changelog.
[11:15] <cjwatson> then the reality of the situation is that you'll probably need to learn to program enough to get something started, I'm afraid
[11:16] <christhecoolboy> I'm not sure even what it would be coded in
[11:16] <cjwatson> ari-tczew: I could just remove it myself of course, but I don't like editing things in other people's names
[11:16] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: I'll send fix in 5 minutes.
[11:16] <cjwatson> thank you
[11:22] <dholbach> hey janimo
[11:23] <janimo> hey dholbach
[11:28]  * ogra_ jawns
[11:32] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: reuploaded
[12:01] <ricotz> Laney, hi, do you know bhavi, he grabbed the docky sync a few hours ago and still isn't finished?
[12:02] <Laney> ricotz: his nickname is cdbs
[12:02] <Laney> (I think)
[12:02] <dholbach> Laney, cdbs is Bilal Akhtar
[12:03] <Laney> oh ok, then I don't know, try the launchpad profile
[12:03] <dholbach> Bhavani is usually bhavi
[12:03] <Laney> someone changed their nick :P
[12:03] <ricotz> hmm, havent seen him around here
[12:04] <ricotz> i also want him to look at the libgcrypt11 merge
[12:05] <ricotz> dholbach, when is he around usually?
[12:05] <ari-tczew> bhavi on IRC is coolbhavi
[12:05] <ari-tczew> but he doesn't use #ubuntu-devel, rather #ubuntu-motu
[12:06] <ricotz> ari-tczew, ok, thanks
[12:06] <ari-tczew> ricotz: what's the problem?
[12:06] <dholbach> ricotz, Bhavani lives in India, but I don't know his usual in-IRC pattern
[12:07] <ricotz> dholbach, alright
[12:08] <ricotz> ari-tczew, the docky sync i mentioned above
[12:09] <dholbach> ricotz, coolbhavi is in #ubuntu-motu now
[12:09] <ari-tczew> ricotz: uploaded and built fine. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docky/2.0.10-1
[12:09] <ricotz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/docky/+bug/703803
[12:10] <ricotz> dholbach, tx
[12:10] <dholbach> anytime
[12:12] <elif> Hi, I would like to use my own ftp server as repository for installation using preseed, what do I need to do to create my ``own mirror'' (without every .deb packages, just the ones I need) ?
[12:19] <tjaalton> zul, slangasek: fix for bug 558793 pending, includes a debdiff with the patches backported. ok to upload to lucid-proposed?
[12:32] <dmart> cjwatson: do you have a moment to answer a quick grub question?
[12:32] <cjwatson> sure
[12:33] <dmart> cjwatson: I have a maverick machine set up with a encrypted rootfs (using the alternate installer)
[12:33] <dmart> cjwatson: What's the correct way to get into the grub boot menu on such a setup?
[12:34] <cjwatson> does it just boot without showing the menu at the moment?
[12:34] <dmart> cjwatson: Escape doesn't work ... currently pressing Ctrl+Alt+Delete from the rootfs password prompt is the only reliable way I see, but that looks unintentional (?)
[12:34] <dmart> cjwatson: ^ yes
[12:34] <cjwatson> hold shift
[12:34] <dmart> cjwatson: aha, I tried Ctrl
[12:35] <dmart> cjwatson: this seems different for every version of grub, but more likely that's just down to configurability + my inexperience ...
[12:35]  * ogra grumbles about the archive still being out of sync for armel
[12:36]  * dmart tries
[12:36] <cjwatson> dmart: it changed from GRUB Legacy to GRUB 2; it hasn't otherwise changed
[12:36] <dmart> cjwatson: looks like Shift works for me -- thanks
[12:36] <cjwatson> dmart: this is because the PC BIOS architecture doesn't allow instantaneously checking whether Escape is pressed
[12:36] <dmart> cjwatson: ^ maybe that's what confused me
[14:03] <cjwatson> anyone know how to debug GNU linker scripts?  I have a build failure due to an ASSERT((foo == bar)) failing - it would be nice to have a way to ask it to print the values it believes foo and bar hold
[14:03] <christhecoolboy> what is #ubuntu-women
[14:03] <christhecoolboy> I wanna help ubuntu in some way
[14:04] <christhecoolboy> and I read about "mentoring"
[14:04] <ogra> christhecoolboy, why dont you ask in #ubuntu-women about #ubuntu-women ?
[14:04] <christhecoolboy> I did
[14:04] <christhecoolboy> I got no responce
[14:04] <christhecoolboy> its like a ghost town lol
[14:05] <ghostcube> o.O
[14:05] <ogra> and what made you think it is appropriate to ask here instead of waiting for an answer ?
[14:05] <christhecoolboy> cause I wanna know that I am not doing something that I shouldnt be
[14:05] <ghostcube> i think ubuntu-woemon explains itself or?
[14:06] <ghostcube> *women either
[14:07] <christhecoolboy> ogra, ^^^
[14:08] <ogra> christhecoolboy, this channel here isnt for support
[14:08] <akshatj> christhecoolboy: this is the development channel, your action is considered spammy here
[14:09] <christhecoolboy> where do I go?
[14:09] <christhecoolboy> to chat with people
[14:09] <akshatj> !offtopic > christhecoolboy
[14:13] <aalex_laptop> hi
[14:13] <aalex_laptop> What is the easiest way to package for two or more distroseries? I use git-buildpackage and CDBS.
[14:13] <aalex_laptop> Do I need to use a different debian/changelog file for each distroseries?
[14:14] <aalex_laptop> (lucid, maverick, natty)
[14:14] <cjwatson> yes, you do
[14:14] <aalex_laptop> Oh! sorry I was wrong. I can use the same control file.
[14:15] <cjwatson> indeed (generally) - you just need a different version and upload target in debian/changelog
[14:15] <aalex_laptop> cjwatson, should I use a whole different changelog file, or just add one entry in the changelog everytime I want to upload it
[14:15] <cjwatson> just add an entry each time
[14:15] <aalex_laptop> ok
[14:15] <cjwatson> the value of a changelog is rather diminished if you keep emptying it :)
[14:16] <aalex_laptop> yep
[14:16] <aalex_laptop> And sometimes I might want to use different version of -dev libs in the control file... I might need many different control files.
[14:18] <aalex_laptop> cjwatson, and then I should add ~maverick to the version of my package?
[14:18] <aalex_laptop> let say 2.1.6~maverick ?
[14:19] <cjwatson> that would be one approach which would work, yes
[14:19] <bdrung> pitti: around?
[14:20] <cjwatson> needing different versions of development libraries for different releases is rare.  that's usually a function of the source code you're uploading, not a function of where you're uploading it to.
[14:25] <pitti> bdrung: hello; I am, just not very IRC-attentive today, as I'm on a sprint this week
[14:25] <bdrung> pitti: i am waiting for your response to bug #701282
[14:26] <bdrung> the feature vs bug discussion
[14:26] <pitti> bdrung: ah, so I guess the "sin" was to allow that other SRU you were referring to
[14:27] <pitti> bdrung: as I said, it's not covered by the policy, but if you are sure that enabling this won't/can't cause regressions for other functionality and formats, I'm not too concerned about it
[14:28] <bdrung> pitti: enabling one format shouldn't cause any regression (but i can't swear)
[14:28] <RoAkSoAx>  /win 5
[14:29] <bdrung> pitti: Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
[14:30] <pitti> RoAkSoAx:  /lose 10
[14:30] <pitti> bdrung: right, but it's not "obvious" that e. g. the new plugin won't cover formats which previously were handled by other formats, etc.
[14:31] <pitti> bdrung: it's not very likely, but we should test it properly
[14:31] <bdrung> pitti: backporting instead of a sru would pull a newer version.
[14:31] <bdrung> pitti: for testing it we have -proposed
[14:34] <pitti> ok
[14:36] <RoAkSoAx> pitti: lol xD
[15:03] <om26er> ev, are you available?
[15:05] <ev> om26er: indeed I am
[15:06] <om26er> ev, i have a branch for empathy but it seems there have been another upload to natty for empathy so letme merge with trunk and I'll be back
[15:07] <ev> okay
[15:22] <om26er> ev, https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/natty/empathy/empathy-fix-666288-2/+merge/46485
[15:34] <aalex_laptop> cjwatson, 2.6.1-1~maverick ?
[15:36] <cjwatson> aalex_laptop: sorry?
[15:36] <aalex_laptop> cjwatson, oh sorry. Would that be a good version name for a package for Maverick?  (that's only for a PPA)
[15:37] <cjwatson> that's a reasonable version number for a backport of a package whose main branch has version number 2.6.1-1
[15:37] <aalex_laptop> main branch?
[15:37] <cjwatson> though I'd use ...~maverick1 personally, or maybe ...~ubuntu10.10.1
[15:37] <cjwatson> natty, at the moment
[15:37] <micahg> for PPAs I usually do ~distro~ppa1 to not interfere with official backports
[15:37] <aalex_laptop> ok, so it would be better to use 2.6.1~maverick1
[15:38] <cjwatson> you should look up what the different components of version numbers mean and work from that
[15:38] <aalex_laptop> any wiki page about that?
[15:38] <cjwatson> the Debian policy manual
[15:38] <cjwatson> (not a wiki)
[15:38] <aalex_laptop> well, there are tilde in the Debian policy?
[15:38] <micahg> aalex_laptop: http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[15:38] <micahg> oops
[15:39] <cjwatson> the tilde is a version number element defined by Debian policy, yes.
[15:39] <cjwatson> it has a specific meaning which you can look up.
[15:39] <micahg> here's the link to Debian: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
[15:40] <cjwatson> doesn't really matter which you look at in this case
[15:41] <ogra> on a sidenote there is also a package for local installation of the docs :)
[16:03] <om26er> jdstrand, hey! was the upload to maverick-proposed rejected for this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/maverick/rhythmbox/rhythmbox-bugfixes-maverick/+merge/43558 there doesn't seem to be anything in Unapproved queue for maverick
[16:11] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: python-django from unstable is FTBFS.
[16:12] <ari-tczew> jdstrand: ^^
[16:29] <ebroder> amitk: could you subscribe me to any bugs you file about that blank dialog thing (i'm broder on lp)? i've seen it once before on a maverick+fglrx machine, but couldn't reproduce it anywhere else so didn't spend too much time worrying about it
[16:37] <quadrispro> doko, I'm working on bug #704027
[16:38] <quadrispro> doko, does PPAs provide builds for armel?
[16:38] <quadrispro> s/does/do/
[16:39] <quadrispro> mmh maybe I've found the answer
[16:51] <aalex_laptop> Hmm, since I upgraded to maverick (not a fresh install), do I need to add "natty" in the list of possible version for pbuilder somewhere?
[16:51] <aalex_laptop> $ sudo DIST=natty pbuilder create >>> Unknown distribution: natty
[16:54] <tumbleweed> aalex_laptop: Your pbuilderrc
[16:55] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, ah! thanks. Long time I hadn't modified that
[16:56] <amitk> ebroder: sure, I haven't filed a bug yet since I can't file from the affected macbook (since I can't see anything on the screen). ubuntu-bug --save pango.log pango isn't being very helpful. Any idea what info I should collect for pango/gtk+2.0 bugs?
[17:10] <ev> @pilot out
[17:10] <ebroder> amitk: not really. the machine i ran into this on was running a primarily non-gtk environment, so it wasn't that important to get fixed
[17:12] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, setting up pbuilder for natty failed: http://paste.debian.net/104878/
[17:13] <tumbleweed> aalex_laptop: that paste excludes the actual error :)
[17:15] <slangasek> tjaalton: should be fixed for natty before SRUing to lucid, at least
[17:27] <dholbach> Straw Poll: what would you think about making the patch pilot schedule a public Google Calendar instead of the wiki? It'd be a bit more work for me to set it up, but it could send out reminders
[17:27] <nigelb> +1
[17:28] <ogra> +++++++ 11111 one one !!!
[17:28] <seb128> hey dholbach, how are you?
[17:28] <dholbach> seb128, good - how are you?
[17:29] <seb128> rather fine as well thanks
[17:29] <seb128> gcalendar -> seems a nice idea, would be easier to handle than the wiki
[17:29] <dholbach> it's more clicking for me and not just one wiki update, but I can see the advantages
[17:29] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, W: Couldn't download package procps ?
[17:30] <tumbleweed> aalex_laptop: out of sync mirror?
[17:30] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, sudo DIST=natty pbuilder update ?
[17:31] <tumbleweed> aalex_laptop: no, edit your pbuilderrc to point to another mirror, until your one is behaving again
[17:35] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, I am not sure to know how to do that. Here is my .pbuilderrc (on maverick) http://paste.debian.net/104884/
[17:35] <dholbach> can somebody give me a good example of a clean packaging for a project using cmake?
[17:35] <aalex_laptop> mirrors.kernel.org is my current mirror
[17:36] <aalex_laptop> I could use the mirror I use usually - it's going to be faster anyways
[17:36] <aalex_laptop> ok
[17:36] <cjwatson> dholbach: there's a dh buildsystem for cmake - does debhelper rules.tiny not work?
[17:36] <ari-tczew> dholbach: clementine
[17:36] <dholbach> cjwatson, I don't know - I was just trying to help out somebody who asked for help with it
[17:37] <cjwatson> you'd need Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7.3.0)
[17:37] <cjwatson> personally I'd use rules.tiny and only add things if that didn't work. :)
[17:37] <dholbach> thanks cjwatson
[17:37] <dholbach> thanks ari-tczew
[17:44] <tumbleweed> aalex_laptop: hmm, mirrors.kernel.org is normally pretty good, and doesn't look out of sync
[17:46] <aalex_laptop> hmm
[17:47] <aalex_laptop> tumbleweed, it worked with ubuntu.mirrors.iweb.ca - though I had to edit the file to remove the /ubuntu/ suffix
[17:47] <aalex_laptop> weird
[17:48] <tumbleweed> aah, whoops, I was looking at the EU cluster
[17:48] <dholbach> seb128, ogra: got the mail?
[17:48] <seb128> dholbach, yes
[17:49] <dholbach> thanks
[17:49] <ogra> yup
[17:49] <seb128> dholbach, thanks ;-)!
[17:50] <ogra> awesome !
[18:05] <apw> are we aware that nm-applet is core-dumping on suspend/resume ?
[18:13] <smoser> james_w`, is it possible to manually kick lp:ubuntu/lucid-proposed/cloud-init to get updated ?
[18:23] <james_w`> smoser, we're investigating an operational issue currently which is preventing any imports
[18:25] <smoser> james_w`, ok.  thats fine. so is "bother james_w because he surely has nothing else to do" the correct way to deal with this ?
[18:26] <james_w`> smoser, you can file a bug on the 'udd' project
[18:26] <smoser> ok.
[18:26] <smoser> do you want me to do that now ? or just in the fugure
[18:27] <james_w`> smoser, please file a bug, I don't want to forget your package when we fix the issue
[18:30] <smoser> am i right that the thing that ends up getting auto-imported is lp:ubuntu/lucid-proposed/<src_package> rather than lp:ubuntu/lucid-updates/<src_package>
[18:30] <smoser> is that right ?
[18:31] <smoser> or, maybe both are supposed to be eventually.
[18:32] <apw> cjwatson, any idea where i might find someone with avahi smarts ... seems its gotten worse to the point its not working at all now (in natty)
[18:34] <smoser> james_w`, bug 704079
[18:34] <james_w`> smoser, thanks
[18:35] <smoser> see question above
[18:36] <james_w`> smoser, it will import to wherever the packages end up
[18:37] <james_w`> smoser, so if the package is just in -proposed then it will only go there
[18:37] <james_w`> if the package is in -updates too then it will go in both branches
[18:39] <smoser> ok. thats what i woudl have thought, but i thought i'd seen other places with no -updates, but a -proposed even though package got through
[18:39] <smoser> if i see such things i'll open bugs in the future.
[19:10] <cjwatson> apw: not sure, in my head it's a desktop thing
[19:11] <cjwatson> mbiebl maybe
[19:11] <apw> cjwatson, thanks ... i guess i'll try and debug it then
[19:21] <tjaalton> slangasek: ok. and further testing shows that it's not 100% fixed after all :/
[19:21] <tjaalton> doesn't complain anymore, but the reverse isn't updated (and still complains on domain join)
[20:20] <lamont> so how in the &*%)*%*&^(B  do I force X to override the cursor grab that it randomly gives to some unsuspecting window?
[21:31] <cjwatson> kenvandine,tedg: can you explain why libindicator2 Breaks: libindicator1?  This is ... unusual for a shared library SONAME bump
[21:35] <tedg> cjwatson, Yes, it was so that we wouldn't get a partial upgrade.  So that unity and the indicators would all upgrade at once.
[21:38] <cjwatson> tedg: the Breaks should have been from unity to libindicator1 then, surely
[21:38] <cjwatson> that would make apt's life easier
[21:39] <tedg> cjwatson, Then we would have to version all the indicators.  i.e. have a indicator-session1 and indicator-session2 so they could be installed at the same time.
[21:39] <cjwatson> hmm.  how horrible.
[21:40] <cjwatson> well, if natty hadn't been left uninstallable by this for days, I might not have got round to asking annoying questions like this ... ;-)
[21:40] <tedg> Heh, you can rest assured that wasn't on purpose :)
[21:41] <cjwatson> is there a timeline for that getting fixed?
[21:41] <tedg> I think it is now, no?
[21:42] <cjwatson> ah, maybe so, I'd been expecting that to involve a unity-place-applications upload
[21:42] <cjwatson> ok, let's see if tomorrow's live CD builds manage to refrain from sending me lots of mail ...
[21:44] <tedg> I think it should.  I don't think that unity-place-applications is needed right now, though users of Maverick may still have it installed.
[21:57] <RAOF> Hm.  Black-screen instead of plymouth ‘enter your encryption passphrase’ is not a happy failure mode.
[22:20] <andreserl> pitti: where you interested in the polling from /dev/input for PowerNap right?
[22:32] <apw> RAOF, at least your disk isn't mounted
[22:32] <RAOF> apw: True.
[22:35] <apw> RAOF, is that one helped by gfxpayload=text etc ?
[22:35] <RAOF> Yes, I think it is.
[22:35] <apw> well that we are interested in
[22:35] <apw> RAOF, if you could confirm that we'd be grateful
[22:36] <apw> can you figure out what mode it is selecting ?
[22:36] <apw> cirtianly get a buggy filed for it if so
[22:36]  * apw wonders if you have the same issue as marjo
[22:37] <apw> #GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480
[22:37] <apw> setting that to like 800x600 might help as a diagnostic tool
[22:37] <RAOF> It appears to be selecting the correct mode, just entirely blank.  Switching to a different VT doesn't appear to modeswitch, and appears to be in the right thingy.
[22:37] <apw> hrm, yuo have VTs with real text (small font) on them ?
[22:37] <RAOF> Interestingly, the grub *menu* is displayed.  Apparently it's not trying to select my broken 1440x900x32 VBE mode.
[22:38] <RAOF> Yes, I do.
[22:38] <RAOF> Real honest to goodness 1440x900 VTs.
[22:38] <apw> then that isn't a graphics issue i'd say
[22:38] <RAOF> Yeah, it's probably plymouth.
[22:38] <apw> oh when you go back to the VT-7 is there something thhere?
[22:38] <apw> OH poop
[22:38] <RAOF> Yup, text.
[22:38] <apw> so yeah if plymouth exits before you answer cause of the mode switch
[22:39] <apw> you might never see the prompt on either side
[22:39] <apw> hrm, not ideal!
[22:39] <RAOF> One could say that!
[22:39] <apw> that is likely a degenerate case of plymouth not coping with the mode switch, which cjwatson is working on
[22:39] <apw> i would try the =text thingy, but i suspect cause of plymouth you won't be any better off
[22:40] <apw> booting without splash might let you at least get to the prompt for password
[22:40] <RAOF> Yeah, it does.
[22:40] <apw> so ... i think that confirms its another (worse outcome case) of the "plymouth tends to die when the mode switch occurs" bug
[22:41] <apw> master watson i think was working on that
[22:41] <RAOF> Then I got to find out that the partitioner of the alternate CD (and *only* the partitioner) doesn't respect the keymap you set at the start.  Trying to reverse-map my passphrase from qwerty→dvorak was fun!
[22:42] <RAOF> Yeah, =text doesn't appear to help.
[22:58]  * cjwatson cannot imagine why only the partitioner would have keymap trouble
[23:00] <RAOF> Neither can I; I'll file a bug, which apport should be able to grab the relevant logs for?
[23:03] <cjwatson> RAOF: goodness knows whether it'll be able to figure out how to file a bug against partman-crypto
[23:03] <cjwatson> RAOF: you could try against debian-installer, and it should make some kind of reasonable attempt then
[23:04] <RAOF> I'll do so.
[23:04] <RAOF> cjwatson: If apport doesn't have any idea, the logs in /var/log/installer are the relevant goodies, right?
[23:05] <cjwatson> yeah
[23:05] <cjwatson> syslog and partma
[23:05] <cjwatson> n
[23:05] <cjwatson> the others are normally boring
[23:09] <ari-tczew> cjwatson: thanks for sponsoring system-tools-backends
[23:12] <cjwatson> np
[23:21] <RAOF> apw: Hm.  Actually my boot problem was that plymouth hadn't been correctly installed by the installer; now that it is, I actually have a prompt.
[23:22] <cjwatson> that's odd too
[23:22] <cjwatson> in what way was it incorrectly installed?
[23:22] <RAOF> I think the archive the installer was based on was broken; it failed to install a bunch of packages due to dependency conflicts.\
[23:23] <RAOF> Plymouth must have been a victim of that.
[23:24] <cjwatson> did it report failure at the time?
[23:24] <RAOF> Yes.