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udienzbdrung, DMB meeting now?12:02
persiaudienz, Ought be, yes.12:02
bdrungcjwatson, cody-somerville, geser, soren, stgraber: DMB meeting. now!12:03
udienzpersia, ok i will waiting12:03
bdrungfour are here.12:05
bdrungshall we begin? who will be the chair if yes?12:07
MootBotMeeting started at 06:09. The chair is persia.12:09
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]12:09
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda12:09
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda12:09
persia[TOPIC] Colin Watson to find a convenient time for a meeting for Martin Pool's application12:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Colin Watson to find a convenient time for a meeting for Martin Pool's application12:09
cjwatsonI suck12:09
persiaCarried over.12:10
* persia digs into numbering12:10
bdrungmartin will be at the next meeting, won't he?12:10
persiapoolie isn't here now, so skipping that.12:10
persiacody-somerville, Are you about?12:10
geserhave we a working DMB for the next meeting?12:11
geseras many expire in a few days12:11
bdrungwhat happens when people expire from DMB?12:12
persiabdrung, Ideally, we previously organised a selection process, and have new members.  Otherwise we've historically been inquorate.  I suppose we could ask the TB for an extension because we didn't sort a selection process.12:13
bdrungpersia: how long does this selection process take (from collecting volunteers till approved new members)?12:14
geserbdrung: in 3 days you will be the only DMB member left12:14
cjwatsonwe need to ask for an extension; we can't just go inquorate12:14
bdrunggeser: i know.12:14
persiabdrung, usually about a month.  Are you up for running one?  2 weeks for nominations, 2 weeks for polling.12:15
bdrungpersia: i never did this before.12:15
persiaI'll do it then.12:15
persia[ACTION] persia to organise a new selection process for DMB renewal12:15
MootBotACTION received:  persia to organise a new selection process for DMB renewal12:15
geserI can do it. I've done the last DMB voting, so I know how not to do it :)12:16
persiaAnyone else want to ask the TB for an extension, or shall I do that also?12:16
persiageser, Would you prefer to do it?12:16
geserup to you, don't how much time you have available12:17
persiaI'm just recovered from being ill, and actually appreciate a new task that I won't feel late about :)12:17
geserok, then you can keep the action item12:18
persiaAnd I'll talk to TB too, since nobody appears to have volunteered for that one.12:18
persia[ACTION] persia to request DMB extension from TB12:18
MootBotACTION received:  persia to request DMB extension from TB12:18
persiaOK.  Moving on.12:18
persia[TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer application for Michael Casadevall (NCommander)12:19
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer application for Michael Casadevall (NCommander)12:19
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall/CoreDevApplication12:19
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall/CoreDevApplication12:19
cjwatson(I think I'd missed, or forgotten, that NCommander was applying, but I'd like to add my support as if I had inserted an endorsement; his installer and CD image work of late has been well worth it.)12:21
* soren wanders in12:22
persiaNCommander, You indicate that you are concerned about community involvement in backend infrastructure.  If not Launchpad, what infrastructure do you mean?  If Launchpad, is that not something being addressed by the increasing openness of Launchpad to random patch acceptance?12:24
bdrungpersia: you stole my question. ;)12:24
persiabdrung, You can have first follow-up then :)12:24
bdrungNCommander: when was your last core-dev application?12:26
NCommanderpersia: Most of the backend in Ubuntu was originally copied from Debian, and its not very documeneted. Last time I had looked, there is a distinct lack of documentation on bits like livecd-rootfs/debian-cd/etc which makes the bar to contribution to backend code be extremely hihg12:26
NCommanderbdrung: little less than two years ago. (it was a few months after I made MOTU)12:26
bdrungNCommander: any plans for getting more people involved in the backend?12:28
bdrungNCommander: i would love to see how the official cd are created. so that i can recreate them on my own.12:29
NCommanderbdrung: when people have shown interest in things that require backend workon12:29
NCommanderbackend work on ubuntu-arm, I've pointed them in the right direction for livecd-rootfs for respinning and making custom squashfs's, as well as where the branches for debian-cd are. Unforutnately, to run most of our backend scripts aside from livecd-rootfs, it requires a lot of effort, time, disk space, and certian live sacarifies12:31
NCommanderbdrung: indeed, I'd love to see such a document, but getting working images out of our tools is annoying since without the CD Image signing key, all the validation scripts in the installer blow up12:33
cjwatsonthat's a bug, our scripts should allow unsigned images :)12:34
NCommandercjwatson: the scripts allow it. d-i has issues12:34
persiaOr at least only show a warning.12:34
cjwatsonplease fix ;-)12:34
cjwatsonit's not supposed to12:34
NCommandercjwatson: I'll have to look at it again. debootstrap blows up due to the key mismatch and d-i doesn't exit gracefully if debootstrap is broke :-/12:35
* stgraber waves12:36
cjwatsond-i's meant to consider it simply unsigned and that this should be OK when booting from a CD (as opposed to from the network), rather than considering it a mismatch12:37
persiaNCommander, You indicate you are proud of bug #349504.  Do you have plans to address comment #7, or have you already in another forum?12:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 349504 in shadow (Ubuntu) "if system date is set to 01-01-1970 users are enforced to update their password" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34950412:37
cjwatsonanyway, somewhat OT I suppose12:37
bdrungNCommander: let me know once documentation is in place and i will test it. more users creating cd images -> more bugs are found -> better software12:37
NCommanderpersia: I believe the issues were addressed on the shadow development mailing list, and my patch was landed in the end. I do not remember the specifics of that discussion however12:39
persiaNCommander, Makes sense.  Just not visible in LP.12:39
persiaOther questions?12:41
bdrungNCommander: your upload count is quite low for lucid, maverick, and natty compared to the previous releases. will you do more uploads once you are core-dev?12:41
cjwatsonwe should not just be assessing by raw numbers12:42
NCommanderbdrung: many packages I worked on past karmic were based in main and had to be sponsored into the archive, usually as part of a larger patch.12:42
* ogra guesses NCommander's upload count dropped due to being forcused on armel breakage with the recent releases... being a patch pilot for core-dev will surely raise that again 12:42
cjwatson(general rant)12:42
NCommanderbdrung: in addition, many of the things I have patched have come after weeks/months of active debugging12:43
bdrungcjwatson: i know. i just was curious why the numbers dropped.12:43
NCommanderGetting openoffice.org to work on ARM was .... a slow process to say the least12:43
sorenUngh... Yeah, that sounds like no fun at all.12:43
NCommander(nor can I claim credit to the final patch)12:44
* ogra noticed the above for his pwn upload count as well, debugging arm bits usually takes longer 12:44
stgraberhehe, considering the time it takes to build on x86, I'm not really surprised that debugging it and fixing it on arm would be a very slow process :)12:44
NCommanderstgraber: your never in a good position when your starting build time is three days :-)12:44
stgraberhehe :)12:44
NCommanderThunderbird was another one of similar evil to debug12:44
NCommanderas is mono12:45
bdrungNCommander: so your involvement went from broad to deep.12:45
NCommanderbdrung: its more broad, as I still focus on the archive in the entirity, but most of what breaks these days are non-trivial bugs that require me to gain anunderstanding of the codebase and such to properly address.12:46
NCommanderbdrung: being heavily involved on the ARM team requires meand other full-time porters to care for it in our entirity due to most teams lacking access to ARM hardware12:47
bdrung(NCommander: i hope that this will change. arm netbooks, arm servers, ...)12:48
ograall the arm team is focused on broad in general ... sadly the bugs force us into "deep" usually12:48
stgraberit's getting easier and easier to get your hands on ARM hardware nowadays, though access to the very new and shiny stuff is still a lot more difficult12:49
ograjust because of their evil nature :)12:49
NCommanderbdrung: with the release of pandaboards from TI, usable hardware has gotten at least affordable12:49
* stgraber still doesn't have any dual core ARM ... :(12:49
NCommanderstgraber: I recommend buying a Nexus One :-)12:49
NCommander(or a pandaboard)12:49
persiaSo, any other questions?  We're drifting, and there is another applicant.12:49
* cjwatson has no questions12:50
stgraberNCommander: considering the pandaboard. Currently have two BeagleBoard (C4), a Genesi and of course my n900 (great phone) :)12:50
ogra7me would vote +2 for NCommander if he could ... he did awersomely improveme over time12:50
stgraberpersia: no question here12:50
sorenNor I.12:50
ogra*awesonely improve12:51
persia[VOTE] Confirm Michael Casadevall (NCommander) as Ubuntu Core Developer12:51
MootBotPlease vote on:  Confirm Michael Casadevall (NCommander) as Ubuntu Core Developer.12:51
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot12:51
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting12:51
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 112:51
MootBot+1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 212:51
stgraberogra: did you choose to start using your classmatepc again ? the keyboard certainly feels like it ;)12:51
MootBot+1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 312:51
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 412:52
MootBot+1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 512:52
MootBot+1 received from persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 612:52
MootBotFinal result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 612:52
ograstgraber, lol, no, compiling and having ff+tb open on 512M somehow makes the ac100 not happy wrt kbd input12:52
persiaNCommander, Congratulations.12:52
ograNCommander, congrats !!!12:52
stgraberNCommander: congrats !12:52
bdrungogra: then compile eclipse on the ac100! it needs 2 gig ram. ;)12:53
persia[TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications for Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz)12:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications for Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz)12:53
persia[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/ContribDevApplications12:53
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/ContribDevApplications12:53
ograbdrung, heh, i would never do such an insanity on my main work-machine12:53
stgraberogra: did you manage to get some kind of video acceleration going with Ubuntu on this one (nvidia blob or similar) ?12:54
persiabdrung, stgraber -> #ubuntu-arm (but  later, please) :)12:55
ograstgraber, nope, but there is someone who provides an image with it ... (and it's rather OT here)12:55
persiaudienz, A few folks have commented about small issues due to volume of work, and changelog issues.  How do you plan to address these in the future?12:56
udienzpersia, i will improving changelog issue by reading last changelog created by other folks12:57
udienzin natty-changes@lists12:57
persiaudienz, That sounds like a good start.  If you're not sure, I'd also recommend asking other developers for their opinions before pushing a patch/branch.12:58
persiaudienz, What are your plans to improve the developer documentation and mentoring program?12:58
udienzudienz, helping other people to make a documentation. now i'm in ubuntu-beginners team12:59
udienzor other stuff12:59
bdrungudienz is talking to himself. :D12:59
udienzbdrung,  ah sorry i'm very nervous13:00
bdrungudienz: you don't have to be nervous. :)13:00
persiaudienz, Being nervous is understandable.  What do you fear most about this process?13:00
cjwatsonDRAGONS, no wait13:01
persiacjwatson, That's the *other* process13:01
cjwatsonmy mistake13:01
udienzbdrung, persia, i'm verveous because its my first time to applied ini ubuntu-contrib dev13:03
persiaudienz, Ah, nothing to worry about then.  You're doing fine.13:03
udienzabout packaging doc, i try to writing in my language first and spread into local LoCo to evaluating13:04
bdrungudienz: can you explain your third point (debian and ubuntu relations) of "What I like least in Ubuntu"?13:04
udienzbdrung, sometimes i feel alone in debian,13:05
udienzand i read email in debian-mentors13:05
udienzseems like we are not communicate in debian13:06
udienzbut its my opinion13:06
bdrungudienz: we = ubuntu developers?13:06
udienzbdrung, no, but ubuntu enthusiast13:07
cjwatsonit's certainly a field which needs continuing work13:07
udienzsometimes a prospective ubuntu-dev will submit to debian13:07
udienzbut he don't know13:07
udienzso i suggest to discussing it before landed in debian13:08
udienzbtw sorry for my english13:08
persiaudienz, is Launchpad lying to me, or was aspell-sk your first accepted upload?13:09
udienzyes, aspell is my first upload13:09
udienzpersia, yes, aspell-sk is my first upload13:10
persiaWere you involved in Ubuntu Development before that (or, perhaps, Sabily)?13:10
udienzyes, Sabily and BlankOn. all Ubuntu based13:10
sorenSorry, guys. Something's come up. I need to run. Will hurry back.13:12
udienzany question?13:12
bdrungudienz: did you read debian team emails?13:13
bdrungfor example pkg-mozext-maintainers13:14
udienzbdrung, where? -mentors? yes i'm subscribing to lists13:14
udienzbdrung, yes i'm subscribing to pkg-mozext-maintainers lista13:14
persiaOther questions?  Ready to vote?13:16
bdrungudienz: there are a bunch of teams. feeling may only apply to the mentors list.13:16
* bdrung may have questions, but is ready to vote13:17
bdrungs/feeling/your feelings/13:17
persia[VOTE] Confirm Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz) as Contributing Developer13:18
MootBotPlease vote on:  Confirm Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz) as Contributing Developer.13:18
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot13:18
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting13:18
persia-1 : Great start, but I prefer to see six months (or, at minimum two) of work on Ubuntu before I can judge that the significant work will be sustained.13:18
MootBot-1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -113:18
bdrung+1 it's a Contributing Developer and not a MOTU application13:19
MootBot+1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 013:19
MootBotAbstention received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 013:21
MootBotAbstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 013:21
cjwatson+1 - for the purposes of contributing-developer, I'm happy to count the time spent on Ubuntu derivatives - it shows that the interest in development isn't a passing phase, which is basically what I think we're looking for13:21
MootBot+1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 113:21
cjwatson(sort of +0.5, but only because I haven't spent lots of time looking through his work)13:22
persiacody-somerville, and soren are not here right now, but their votes won't affect outcome at this point.13:22
MootBotFinal result is 2 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 113:22
cjwatsonwait, aren't we missing one more?13:22
cjwatsonthree +1 votes would bring us to a balance of 4.13:22
cjwatsonoh, I can't count.  Never mind.13:23
persiaWe got 5 votes.  Two +1, Two +0, One -1.  aren't we seven?13:23
cjwatsonyou're right.13:23
persiaudienz, You're off to a great start.  We hope to see you back here soon.  Personally, I'd recommend a couple months, but you may want to chat with those with whom you work closely, who may encourage you to return sooner.13:24
udienzpersia, thanks13:25
persia[TOPIC] Chair for next meeting?13:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Chair for next meeting?13:26
stgraberI can do it13:26
persiabdrung, Would you mind, as you're the only one that is confirmed to be here then?13:26
stgraber(that's if I'm not expired by then :))13:26
bdrungpersia: ok13:26
persiastgraber, Heh.  OK.  I'll mark you down, just in case.13:26
persiaNext chair stgraber (or bdrung, if needed)13:26
* bdrung nods13:27
persiaDoes anyone have a need for immediate posting of minutes?  I'd rather post in 12 hours, if that's acceptable.13:27
stgrabernot that a meeting would be so useful if everyone but bdrung has expired ;)13:27
geserstgraber: the voting would be fast :)13:28
persiaI'll take that as a no :)13:28
MootBotMeeting finished at 07:28.13:28
udienzbdrung, may i ask in private?13:29
skaethiya,  we will be having an SRU/LTS meeting today, for those not on holiday.15:55
* charlie-tca waves15:56
* ara waves15:56
skaetagenda can be found ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-01-17-SR15:57
* skaet waves back to charlie-tca and ara15:57
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
skaethi all,  time to start.16:00
MootBotMeeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.16:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:00
skaetAgenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/StableReleaseAgenda16:01
skaetformatting is still a bit rough, but I'll polish it up later today :P16:01
skaetFocus for this week is 10.04.2,  Freeze will be on 1/20.  Please submit in last bug fixes.16:01
skaetLast week, we've agreed that between 10.04.2 freeze and release  we will not be releasing any Lucid SRU kernels.16:01
skaet[TOPIC] 10.04.216:03
MootBotNew Topic:  10.04.216:03
skaetsconklin around?16:03
* skaet figures not many US folk will be.16:04
skaetpitti around?16:04
* ara is surprised skaet is around16:05
* skaet is taking a swap day later in the week. :)16:05
skaetara,  any updates?16:06
* skaet thinks this may end up being a very short meeting. 16:06
araskaet, nothing from us, we will test the -proposed kernel as soon as available16:07
skaetara,  proposed kernel for 10.04.2 looks like it will be the one released last week.   Can you outline the plans for hw cert testing the 10.04.2 kernel, so others can ask questions.16:08
araskaet, sure16:08
* skaet should probably have said 10.04.2 release, since its more than a kernel ;)16:08
arawe are going to have a full cycle of certification testing against the candidate images for 10.04.216:09
arameaning, we are going to make sure that all the systems that were certified for 10.04, work equally fine in 10.04.216:09
araif the week of release the final image differs slightly from the one we have tested16:10
arathen we will also run automated tests against that one16:11
skaetthanks ara!   anyone have questions?16:11
* skaet looks around, guesses not.16:11
skaetjibel,  can you summarize what the QA team will be doing?16:12
* skaet guesses we are light on QA attendance today too.16:13
skaetok, moving along16:13
skaet[TOPIC] SRU updates16:13
MootBotNew Topic:  SRU updates16:13
skaetfrom discussions last week,  we're not going to be having lucid kernel updates now until after we release 10.04.2.   Maverick will only be if OEM has critical issue they can't work around.16:14
skaetexpectation is there may be a bit of catchup on karmic, hardy, dapper in this interval.16:15
ograargh ... is that the sru meeting ?16:16
skaetogra, yup.16:16
* ogra wonders why he never gets cgal reminders for it and thus forgets about it16:16
* skaet will check16:16
skaetzul,  any updates from your side?16:17
zulskaet: nope16:17
skaetogra,  any updates on SRU or 10.04.2 from your team?16:18
ogranothing i'm aware of for lucid, no16:18
skaetokie,  am noticing smagoun1 popping in and out, and wondering if there is anything on OEM's concern list we need to worry about?16:19
smagoun1skaet: not actively, we just need those SRU kernels to keep coming16:20
smagoun1(for 10.10, primarily)16:20
skaetsmagoun1,  understood.   We've got a resource crunch on the QA and HW Cert side until the 10.04.2 comes out.16:21
skaetVanHoof is working with sconklin for workarounds until this bottleneck clears up.16:22
smagoun1yup, I talked w/ the kernel guys about this a bit at the Rally. There's some nice-to-have stuff that will be delayed for us, nothing we can't work around though16:22
skaetexcellent.  :)16:22
=== smagoun1 is now known as smagoun
skaet[TOPIC] any other kudos/concerns/comments?16:23
MootBotNew Topic:  any other kudos/concerns/comments?16:23
skaetkudo: just wanted to say thank you to the teams at the rally last week for hard work on coming up with an interlock schedule.16:23
araskaet, thanks to you!16:24
skaetkudo:  thanks to ara for initiating the plenary so we could educate folks about the new kernel SRU cadence.   It was fun to do, and sounded like audience liked it.16:25
skaetany other comments?16:26
* skaet looks around....16:26
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:26.16:26
skaetthanks ara, zul, ogra, smagoun, daviey16:27
smagounskaet: thanks!16:27
skaetwill make sure we get some detailed minutes put out to summarize last week, so information goes out.16:28
=== emma_ is now known as em
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
ShootEmUpHi everyone22:22

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