[12:02] <udienz> bdrung, DMB meeting now?
[12:02] <persia> udienz, Ought be, yes.
[12:03] <bdrung> cjwatson, cody-somerville, geser, soren, stgraber: DMB meeting. now!
[12:03] <udienz> persia, ok i will waiting
[12:03] <cjwatson> hi
[12:04] <NCommander> morning
[12:04] <geser> Hi
[12:05] <bdrung> four are here.
[12:07] <bdrung> shall we begin? who will be the chair if yes?
[12:09] <persia> #startmeeting
[12:09] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:09. The chair is persia.
[12:09] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:09] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[12:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[12:09] <persia> [TOPIC] Colin Watson to find a convenient time for a meeting for Martin Pool's application
[12:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Colin Watson to find a convenient time for a meeting for Martin Pool's application
[12:09] <cjwatson> I suck
[12:10] <persia> Carried over.
[12:10]  * persia digs into numbering
[12:10] <bdrung> martin will be at the next meeting, won't he?
[12:10] <persia> poolie isn't here now, so skipping that.
[12:10] <persia> cody-somerville, Are you about?
[12:11] <geser> have we a working DMB for the next meeting?
[12:11] <geser> as many expire in a few days
[12:12] <bdrung> what happens when people expire from DMB?
[12:13] <persia> bdrung, Ideally, we previously organised a selection process, and have new members.  Otherwise we've historically been inquorate.  I suppose we could ask the TB for an extension because we didn't sort a selection process.
[12:14] <bdrung> persia: how long does this selection process take (from collecting volunteers till approved new members)?
[12:14] <geser> bdrung: in 3 days you will be the only DMB member left
[12:14] <cjwatson> we need to ask for an extension; we can't just go inquorate
[12:14] <bdrung> geser: i know.
[12:15] <persia> bdrung, usually about a month.  Are you up for running one?  2 weeks for nominations, 2 weeks for polling.
[12:15] <bdrung> persia: i never did this before.
[12:15] <persia> I'll do it then.
[12:15] <persia> [ACTION] persia to organise a new selection process for DMB renewal
[12:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to organise a new selection process for DMB renewal
[12:16] <geser> I can do it. I've done the last DMB voting, so I know how not to do it :)
[12:16] <persia> Anyone else want to ask the TB for an extension, or shall I do that also?
[12:16] <persia> geser, Would you prefer to do it?
[12:17] <geser> up to you, don't how much time you have available
[12:17] <persia> I'm just recovered from being ill, and actually appreciate a new task that I won't feel late about :)
[12:18] <geser> ok, then you can keep the action item
[12:18] <persia> And I'll talk to TB too, since nobody appears to have volunteered for that one.
[12:18] <persia> [ACTION] persia to request DMB extension from TB
[12:18] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to request DMB extension from TB
[12:18] <persia> OK.  Moving on.
[12:19] <persia> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Core Developer application for Michael Casadevall (NCommander)
[12:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Core Developer application for Michael Casadevall (NCommander)
[12:19] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall/CoreDevApplication
[12:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelCasadevall/CoreDevApplication
[12:21] <cjwatson> (I think I'd missed, or forgotten, that NCommander was applying, but I'd like to add my support as if I had inserted an endorsement; his installer and CD image work of late has been well worth it.)
[12:22]  * soren wanders in
[12:24] <persia> NCommander, You indicate that you are concerned about community involvement in backend infrastructure.  If not Launchpad, what infrastructure do you mean?  If Launchpad, is that not something being addressed by the increasing openness of Launchpad to random patch acceptance?
[12:24] <bdrung> persia: you stole my question. ;)
[12:24] <persia> bdrung, You can have first follow-up then :)
[12:26] <bdrung> NCommander: when was your last core-dev application?
[12:26] <NCommander> persia: Most of the backend in Ubuntu was originally copied from Debian, and its not very documeneted. Last time I had looked, there is a distinct lack of documentation on bits like livecd-rootfs/debian-cd/etc which makes the bar to contribution to backend code be extremely hihg
[12:26] <NCommander> bdrung: little less than two years ago. (it was a few months after I made MOTU)
[12:28] <bdrung> NCommander: any plans for getting more people involved in the backend?
[12:29] <bdrung> NCommander: i would love to see how the official cd are created. so that i can recreate them on my own.
[12:29] <NCommander> bdrung: when people have shown interest in things that require backend workon
[12:29] <NCommander> bah
[12:31] <NCommander> backend work on ubuntu-arm, I've pointed them in the right direction for livecd-rootfs for respinning and making custom squashfs's, as well as where the branches for debian-cd are. Unforutnately, to run most of our backend scripts aside from livecd-rootfs, it requires a lot of effort, time, disk space, and certian live sacarifies
[12:33] <NCommander> bdrung: indeed, I'd love to see such a document, but getting working images out of our tools is annoying since without the CD Image signing key, all the validation scripts in the installer blow up
[12:34] <cjwatson> that's a bug, our scripts should allow unsigned images :)
[12:34] <NCommander> cjwatson: the scripts allow it. d-i has issues
[12:34] <persia> Or at least only show a warning.
[12:34] <cjwatson> please fix ;-)
[12:34] <cjwatson> it's not supposed to
[12:35] <NCommander> cjwatson: I'll have to look at it again. debootstrap blows up due to the key mismatch and d-i doesn't exit gracefully if debootstrap is broke :-/
[12:36]  * stgraber waves
[12:37] <cjwatson> d-i's meant to consider it simply unsigned and that this should be OK when booting from a CD (as opposed to from the network), rather than considering it a mismatch
[12:37] <persia> NCommander, You indicate you are proud of bug #349504.  Do you have plans to address comment #7, or have you already in another forum?
[12:37] <cjwatson> anyway, somewhat OT I suppose
[12:37] <bdrung> NCommander: let me know once documentation is in place and i will test it. more users creating cd images -> more bugs are found -> better software
[12:39] <NCommander> persia: I believe the issues were addressed on the shadow development mailing list, and my patch was landed in the end. I do not remember the specifics of that discussion however
[12:39] <persia> NCommander, Makes sense.  Just not visible in LP.
[12:41] <persia> Other questions?
[12:41] <bdrung> NCommander: your upload count is quite low for lucid, maverick, and natty compared to the previous releases. will you do more uploads once you are core-dev?
[12:42] <cjwatson> we should not just be assessing by raw numbers
[12:42] <NCommander> bdrung: many packages I worked on past karmic were based in main and had to be sponsored into the archive, usually as part of a larger patch.
[12:42]  * ogra guesses NCommander's upload count dropped due to being forcused on armel breakage with the recent releases... being a patch pilot for core-dev will surely raise that again 
[12:42] <cjwatson> (general rant)
[12:43] <NCommander> bdrung: in addition, many of the things I have patched have come after weeks/months of active debugging
[12:43] <bdrung> cjwatson: i know. i just was curious why the numbers dropped.
[12:43] <NCommander> Getting openoffice.org to work on ARM was .... a slow process to say the least
[12:43] <soren> Ungh... Yeah, that sounds like no fun at all.
[12:44] <NCommander> (nor can I claim credit to the final patch)
[12:44]  * ogra noticed the above for his pwn upload count as well, debugging arm bits usually takes longer 
[12:44] <stgraber> hehe, considering the time it takes to build on x86, I'm not really surprised that debugging it and fixing it on arm would be a very slow process :)
[12:44] <ogra> s/pwn/own/
[12:44] <NCommander> stgraber: your never in a good position when your starting build time is three days :-)
[12:44] <stgraber> hehe :)
[12:44] <NCommander> Thunderbird was another one of similar evil to debug
[12:45] <NCommander> as is mono
[12:45] <bdrung> NCommander: so your involvement went from broad to deep.
[12:46] <NCommander> bdrung: its more broad, as I still focus on the archive in the entirity, but most of what breaks these days are non-trivial bugs that require me to gain anunderstanding of the codebase and such to properly address.
[12:47] <NCommander> bdrung: being heavily involved on the ARM team requires meand other full-time porters to care for it in our entirity due to most teams lacking access to ARM hardware
[12:48] <bdrung> (NCommander: i hope that this will change. arm netbooks, arm servers, ...)
[12:48] <ogra> all the arm team is focused on broad in general ... sadly the bugs force us into "deep" usually
[12:49] <stgraber> it's getting easier and easier to get your hands on ARM hardware nowadays, though access to the very new and shiny stuff is still a lot more difficult
[12:49] <ogra> just because of their evil nature :)
[12:49] <NCommander> bdrung: with the release of pandaboards from TI, usable hardware has gotten at least affordable
[12:49]  * stgraber still doesn't have any dual core ARM ... :(
[12:49] <NCommander> stgraber: I recommend buying a Nexus One :-)
[12:49] <NCommander> (or a pandaboard)
[12:49] <persia> So, any other questions?  We're drifting, and there is another applicant.
[12:50]  * cjwatson has no questions
[12:50] <stgraber> NCommander: considering the pandaboard. Currently have two BeagleBoard (C4), a Genesi and of course my n900 (great phone) :)
[12:50] <ogra> 7me would vote +2 for NCommander if he could ... he did awersomely improveme over time
[12:50] <stgraber> persia: no question here
[12:50] <soren> Nor I.
[12:51] <ogra> *awesonely improve
[12:51] <ogra> gah
[12:51] <persia> [VOTE] Confirm Michael Casadevall (NCommander) as Ubuntu Core Developer
[12:51] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Michael Casadevall (NCommander) as Ubuntu Core Developer.
[12:51] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[12:51] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[12:51] <bdrung> +1
[12:51] <MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[12:51] <soren> +1
[12:51] <MootBot> +1 received from soren. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[12:51] <stgraber> ogra: did you choose to start using your classmatepc again ? the keyboard certainly feels like it ;)
[12:51] <stgraber> +1
[12:51] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[12:52] <cjwatson> +1
[12:52] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[12:52] <geser> +1
[12:52] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[12:52] <persia> +1
[12:52] <MootBot> +1 received from persia. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[12:52] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[12:52] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 6
[12:52] <ogra> stgraber, lol, no, compiling and having ff+tb open on 512M somehow makes the ac100 not happy wrt kbd input
[12:52] <persia> NCommander, Congratulations.
[12:52] <ogra> wohoo
[12:52] <NCommander> neat
[12:52] <ogra> NCommander, congrats !!!
[12:52] <stgraber> NCommander: congrats !
[12:53] <bdrung> ogra: then compile eclipse on the ac100! it needs 2 gig ram. ;)
[12:53] <persia> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications for Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz)
[12:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications for Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz)
[12:53] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/ContribDevApplications
[12:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/ContribDevApplications
[12:53] <ogra> bdrung, heh, i would never do such an insanity on my main work-machine
[12:54] <stgraber> ogra: did you manage to get some kind of video acceleration going with Ubuntu on this one (nvidia blob or similar) ?
[12:55] <persia> bdrung, stgraber -> #ubuntu-arm (but  later, please) :)
[12:55] <ogra> stgraber, nope, but there is someone who provides an image with it ... (and it's rather OT here)
[12:56] <persia> udienz, A few folks have commented about small issues due to volume of work, and changelog issues.  How do you plan to address these in the future?
[12:57] <udienz> persia, i will improving changelog issue by reading last changelog created by other folks
[12:57] <udienz> in natty-changes@lists
[12:58] <persia> udienz, That sounds like a good start.  If you're not sure, I'd also recommend asking other developers for their opinions before pushing a patch/branch.
[12:58] <persia> udienz, What are your plans to improve the developer documentation and mentoring program?
[12:59] <udienz> udienz, helping other people to make a documentation. now i'm in ubuntu-beginners team
[12:59] <udienz> writing
[12:59] <udienz> or other stuff
[12:59] <bdrung> udienz is talking to himself. :D
[12:59] <udienz> :D
[13:00] <udienz> bdrung,  ah sorry i'm very nervous
[13:00] <bdrung> udienz: you don't have to be nervous. :)
[13:00] <persia> udienz, Being nervous is understandable.  What do you fear most about this process?
[13:01] <cjwatson> DRAGONS, no wait
[13:01] <persia> cjwatson, That's the *other* process
[13:01] <cjwatson> my mistake
[13:03] <udienz> bdrung, persia, i'm verveous because its my first time to applied ini ubuntu-contrib dev
[13:03] <persia> udienz, Ah, nothing to worry about then.  You're doing fine.
[13:03] <udienz> 8nervous
[13:04] <udienz> about packaging doc, i try to writing in my language first and spread into local LoCo to evaluating
[13:04] <bdrung> udienz: can you explain your third point (debian and ubuntu relations) of "What I like least in Ubuntu"?
[13:05] <udienz> bdrung, sometimes i feel alone in debian,
[13:05] <udienz> and i read email in debian-mentors
[13:06] <udienz> seems like we are not communicate in debian
[13:06] <udienz> but its my opinion
[13:06] <bdrung> udienz: we = ubuntu developers?
[13:07] <udienz> bdrung, no, but ubuntu enthusiast
[13:07] <cjwatson> it's certainly a field which needs continuing work
[13:07] <udienz> sometimes a prospective ubuntu-dev will submit to debian
[13:07] <udienz> but he don't know
[13:08] <udienz> so i suggest to discussing it before landed in debian
[13:08] <udienz> btw sorry for my english
[13:09] <persia> udienz, is Launchpad lying to me, or was aspell-sk your first accepted upload?
[13:09] <udienz> yes, aspell is my first upload
[13:10] <udienz> persia, yes, aspell-sk is my first upload
[13:10] <persia> Were you involved in Ubuntu Development before that (or, perhaps, Sabily)?
[13:10] <udienz> yes, Sabily and BlankOn. all Ubuntu based
[13:12] <soren> Sorry, guys. Something's come up. I need to run. Will hurry back.
[13:12] <udienz> any question?
[13:13] <bdrung> udienz: did you read debian team emails?
[13:14] <bdrung> for example pkg-mozext-maintainers
[13:14] <udienz> bdrung, where? -mentors? yes i'm subscribing to lists
[13:14] <udienz> bdrung, yes i'm subscribing to pkg-mozext-maintainers lista
[13:16] <persia> Other questions?  Ready to vote?
[13:16] <bdrung> udienz: there are a bunch of teams. feeling may only apply to the mentors list.
[13:17]  * bdrung may have questions, but is ready to vote
[13:17] <bdrung> s/feeling/your feelings/
[13:18] <persia> [VOTE] Confirm Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz) as Contributing Developer
[13:18] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Confirm Mahyuddin Susanto (udienz) as Contributing Developer.
[13:18] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[13:18] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[13:18] <persia> -1 : Great start, but I prefer to see six months (or, at minimum two) of work on Ubuntu before I can judge that the significant work will be sustained.
[13:18] <MootBot> -1 received from persia. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[13:19] <bdrung> +1 it's a Contributing Developer and not a MOTU application
[13:19] <MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 1 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 0
[13:21] <stgraber> +0
[13:21] <MootBot> Abstention received from stgraber. 1 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[13:21] <geser> +0
[13:21] <MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 1 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 0
[13:21] <cjwatson> +1 - for the purposes of contributing-developer, I'm happy to count the time spent on Ubuntu derivatives - it shows that the interest in development isn't a passing phase, which is basically what I think we're looking for
[13:21] <MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 1
[13:22] <cjwatson> (sort of +0.5, but only because I haven't spent lots of time looking through his work)
[13:22] <persia> cody-somerville, and soren are not here right now, but their votes won't affect outcome at this point.
[13:22] <persia> [ENDVOTE]
[13:22] <MootBot> Final result is 2 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 1
[13:22] <cjwatson> wait, aren't we missing one more?
[13:22] <cjwatson> three +1 votes would bring us to a balance of 4.
[13:23] <cjwatson> oh, I can't count.  Never mind.
[13:23] <persia> We got 5 votes.  Two +1, Two +0, One -1.  aren't we seven?
[13:23] <cjwatson> you're right.
[13:24] <persia> udienz, You're off to a great start.  We hope to see you back here soon.  Personally, I'd recommend a couple months, but you may want to chat with those with whom you work closely, who may encourage you to return sooner.
[13:25] <udienz> persia, thanks
[13:26] <persia> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting?
[13:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting?
[13:26] <stgraber> I can do it
[13:26] <persia> bdrung, Would you mind, as you're the only one that is confirmed to be here then?
[13:26] <stgraber> (that's if I'm not expired by then :))
[13:26] <bdrung> persia: ok
[13:26] <persia> stgraber, Heh.  OK.  I'll mark you down, just in case.
[13:26] <persia> Next chair stgraber (or bdrung, if needed)
[13:27]  * bdrung nods
[13:27] <persia> Does anyone have a need for immediate posting of minutes?  I'd rather post in 12 hours, if that's acceptable.
[13:27] <stgraber> not that a meeting would be so useful if everyone but bdrung has expired ;)
[13:28] <geser> stgraber: the voting would be fast :)
[13:28] <persia> I'll take that as a no :)
[13:28] <persia> #endmeeting
[13:28] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:28.
[13:29] <udienz> bdrung, may i ask in private?
[13:29] <bdrung> yes
[15:55] <skaet> hiya,  we will be having an SRU/LTS meeting today, for those not on holiday.
[15:56]  * charlie-tca waves
[15:56]  * ara waves
[15:57] <skaet> agenda can be found ttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2011-01-17-SR
[15:57]  * skaet waves back to charlie-tca and ara
[16:00] <skaet> hi all,  time to start.
[16:00] <Daviey> o/
[16:00] <skaet> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is skaet.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <skaet> Agenda can be found: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/StableReleaseAgenda
[16:01] <skaet> formatting is still a bit rough, but I'll polish it up later today :P
[16:01] <skaet> Focus for this week is 10.04.2,  Freeze will be on 1/20.  Please submit in last bug fixes.
[16:01] <skaet> Last week, we've agreed that between 10.04.2 freeze and release  we will not be releasing any Lucid SRU kernels.
[16:02] <skaet> ..
[16:03] <skaet> [TOPIC] 10.04.2
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  10.04.2
[16:03] <skaet> sconklin around?
[16:04]  * skaet figures not many US folk will be.
[16:04] <skaet> pitti around?
[16:05]  * ara is surprised skaet is around
[16:05]  * skaet is taking a swap day later in the week.  :)
[16:06] <skaet> ara,  any updates?
[16:06]  * skaet thinks this may end up being a very short meeting. 
[16:07] <ara> skaet, nothing from us, we will test the -proposed kernel as soon as available
[16:08] <skaet> ara,  proposed kernel for 10.04.2 looks like it will be the one released last week.   Can you outline the plans for hw cert testing the 10.04.2 kernel, so others can ask questions.
[16:08] <ara> skaet, sure
[16:08]  * skaet should probably have said 10.04.2 release,  since its more than a kernel ;)
[16:09] <ara> we are going to have a full cycle of certification testing against the candidate images for 10.04.2
[16:09] <ara> meaning, we are going to make sure that all the systems that were certified for 10.04, work equally fine in 10.04.2
[16:10] <ara> if the week of release the final image differs slightly from the one we have tested
[16:11] <ara> then we will also run automated tests against that one
[16:11] <ara> ..
[16:11] <skaet> thanks ara!   anyone have questions?
[16:11]  * skaet looks around,  guesses not.
[16:12] <skaet> jibel,  can you summarize what the QA team will be doing?
[16:13]  * skaet guesses we are light on QA attendance today too.
[16:13] <skaet> ok, moving along
[16:13] <skaet> [TOPIC] SRU updates
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU updates
[16:14] <skaet> from discussions last week,  we're not going to be having lucid kernel updates now until after we release 10.04.2.   Maverick will only be if OEM has critical issue they can't work around.
[16:15] <skaet> expectation is there may be a bit of catchup on karmic, hardy, dapper in this interval.
[16:16] <ogra> argh ... is that the sru meeting ?
[16:16] <skaet> ogra, yup.
[16:16]  * ogra wonders why he never gets cgal reminders for it and thus forgets about it
[16:16]  * skaet will check
[16:17] <skaet> zul,  any updates from your side?
[16:17] <skaet> s/side/team/
[16:17] <zul> skaet: nope
[16:18] <skaet> ogra,  any updates on SRU or 10.04.2 from your team?
[16:18] <ogra> nothing i'm aware of for lucid, no
[16:19] <skaet> okie,  am noticing smagoun1 popping in and out, and wondering if there is anything on OEM's concern list we need to worry about?
[16:20] <smagoun1> skaet: not actively, we just need those SRU kernels to keep coming
[16:20] <smagoun1> (for 10.10, primarily)
[16:21] <skaet> smagoun1,  understood.   We've got a resource crunch on the QA and HW Cert side until the 10.04.2 comes out.
[16:22] <skaet> VanHoof is working with sconklin for workarounds until this bottleneck clears up.
[16:22] <smagoun1> yup, I talked w/ the kernel guys about this a bit at the Rally. There's some nice-to-have stuff that will be delayed for us, nothing we can't work around though
[16:22] <skaet> excellent.  :)
[16:23] <skaet> [TOPIC] any other kudos/concerns/comments?
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  any other kudos/concerns/comments?
[16:23] <skaet> kudo: just wanted to say thank you to the teams at the rally last week for hard work on coming up with an interlock schedule.
[16:24] <ara> skaet, thanks to you!
[16:24] <skaet> :)
[16:25] <skaet> kudo:  thanks to ara for initiating the plenary so we could educate folks about the new kernel SRU cadence.   It was fun to do, and sounded like audience liked it.
[16:26] <skaet> any other comments?
[16:26]  * skaet looks around....
[16:26] <skaet> #endmeeting
[16:26] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:26.
[16:27] <skaet> thanks ara, zul, ogra, smagoun, daviey
[16:27] <ogra> :)
[16:27] <smagoun> skaet: thanks!
[16:28] <skaet> will make sure we get some detailed minutes put out to summarize last week, so information goes out.
[22:22] <ShootEmUp> Hi everyone