[03:53] <directionalpad> Oh my.
[13:49] <reya276> Morning Everyone
[13:49] <mhall119> morning reya276 
[13:50] <reya276> just the fellow I was looking for, here something you might enjoy but way I'll PM you so that folks in here don't get all nuts about it
[13:51] <maxolasersquad> I can't imagine anything worse than the Florida Loco going nuts.
[13:52] <reya276> The reason why is because it has to do with politics and the last thing I want is to start some kind of argument so early in the morning
[13:52] <reya276> so is not proper, mhall119 and I had some discussions about this before
[13:53] <mhall119> heh, yeah, we wouldn't want to make the LoCo go nuts
[13:53] <mhall119> Florida is nuts enough already
[13:54] <reya276> LOL
[13:54] <reya276> yeap we sure are...
[13:55] <mhall119> alright, I'm done with my cheerios and coffee, time to head to work
[13:56] <reya276> what?...Dude your not at work yet
[13:57] <reya276> whoa you guys are a super dedicated bunch for sure
[15:19] <greiser> morning....
[15:23]  * greiser built his first deb package last night....
[15:24]  * maxolasersquad congrats greiser
[15:24] <greiser> i'm now an official contributor
[15:25] <greiser> i just packaged up sqlbuddy, a nice web based mysql admin tool
[15:27] <greiser> launchpad.net/~gabereiser/+archive/sqlbuddy
[15:29] <greiser> building deb files is a pain...
[15:29] <greiser> sooooo many steps and setups to do...
[15:30] <greiser> took me like 4 hours (granted i'm a n00b)....
[15:36] <maxolasersquad> Yes, but those four hourse meens it will only take everyone else a few seconds.
[15:43] <mhall119> greiser: it gets easier, especially if you start using bzr for your package branches
[15:43] <mhall119> trust me, I went through the same phase you're going through now, it seems like an overly complex process, but there are tools and "best practices" that make it much much simpler
[16:02] <greiser> how would using bzr make it easier?
[16:02] <greiser> you still have to write postinst and postrm scripts....
[16:02] <greiser> and i'm not that fluent in bash
[16:03] <greiser> i ended up looking at other debs to see how they did it....
[16:05] <greiser> i recently built mono-2.8.2 from source since I couldn't find anything later than mono-2.6 in the repos...
[16:05] <greiser> was thinking of trying my hand at packaging that too....
[16:06] <greiser> but it was fun, in a masocistic kinda way....
[16:06] <greiser> and I definately felt like I did something good...
[16:07] <greiser> even if it was for a simple web based package
[16:10] <greiser> i need a bash bible
[16:16] <maxolasersquad> greiser: You have one.  http://www.google.com/search?q=google+bash+guide
[16:17] <maxolasersquad> Argh: http://www.google.com/search?q=bash+guide
[16:17] <greiser> ....
[16:17] <greiser> smarty
[16:18] <greiser> call me old fashoned but I still like books....
[16:20] <itnet7> greiser: you probably could have found a newer version in a PPA
[16:22]  * maxolasersquad call greiser old fashioned. :)
[16:23] <reya276> Hey does anyone know where I can get ICC color profiles for my Samsung SyncMaster 2343, look on the web but no such luck
[16:23] <itnet7> Personal Packaging Archive's are where a lot of developers package up newer versions packages found repo, but use them with caution
[16:24] <MichelleQ> greiser: I'm old fashioned too.
[16:24] <itnet7> versions of packages that are not the latest in the repos (I meant) sorry :-P
[16:24] <itnet7> Hey there MichelleQ !
[16:28] <MichelleQ> itnet7: hi there!
[16:28] <itnet7> Hope things are going well for ya!
[16:30] <MichelleQ> they're going.  How are you?
[16:34] <mhall119> greiser: https://launchpad.net/bzr-builddeb
[16:35] <mhall119> you basically just make a bzr branch that contains your package's ./debian directory
[16:35] <mhall119> then all you need is to package your app's source in a .tar.gz file, and run "bzr builddeb"
[16:36] <mhall119> it makes maintaining your deb much easier
[16:39] <greiser> itnet7: but no one has a PPA of mono 2.8.2....
[16:39] <greiser> mhall119: I'll have to look into that.... I'm more a git guy though....
[16:40] <mhall119> greiser: well you won't be doing much more than pull/commit/update, so the differences between the two aren't going to matter much
[16:40] <mhall119> later, you can create a 'build recipe' on launchpad using your bzr package branch, and it'll automatically build new versions of your deb everytime a new version of sqlbuddy is released
[16:41] <greiser> unless there's conflicts
[16:41] <dantalizing> morning
[16:41] <itnet7> hey there dantalizing !
[16:42] <greiser> bah:  https://launchpad.net/git-buildpackage
[16:42] <greiser> i didn't even know this existed
[16:43] <greiser> will be helpful once I start making packages for natty
[16:44] <mhall119> greiser: what do you mean conflicts?
[16:45] <greiser> if I unpack a release into my bzr branch... or I change something to make it work under ubuntu...
[16:45] <mhall119> greiser: your 'package branch' only contains what's in ./debian, not the source of the application
[16:45] <greiser> ok...
[16:45] <mhall119> it can, however, contain patches to the source of the application
[16:46] <greiser> so the bzr only has one branch, the debian dir.....
[16:46] <mhall119> bzr builddeb will go find the latest version of the app's source from the internet, download it, unpackage it, apply any patches you have specified, then build a new deb from that
[16:46] <greiser> well hot damn....
[16:46] <mhall119> greiser: well, bzr only works on one branch at a time, typically
[16:46] <mhall119> so, yes
[16:46] <greiser> docs?
[16:46] <greiser> links?
[16:46] <mhall119> um.......
[16:46] <mhall119> heh
[16:47] <mhall119> I may have some bookmarked, let me see what I can find
[16:47] <greiser> brb
[16:47] <mhall119> mostly I learned this from reading the debian documentation
[16:48] <mhall119> and making my own packages over time
[16:49] <mhall119> in ./debian/watch you specify a regex URL for finding the original source
[16:49] <mhall119> http://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch/
[16:50] <mhall119> that says to use 'uscan' to get the latest, but calling 'bzr builddeb' will do that for you
[16:51] <mianosm2> 11:50, starting 11.04x64 server install.
[16:53] <greiser> does it work on zip files?
[16:54] <mhall119> hmmm, that I don't know, I've only ever used .tar.gz
[16:54] <mhall119> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html is a good reference
[16:57] <mhall119> also http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-modify.en.html for making patches to the original source
[16:58] <greiser> yeah i know about patches
[16:59] <greiser> i had to do that to automatically add apache.conf under /etc/sqlbuddy/apache.conf and in my postinst create a syslink to it under /etc/apache2/conf.d/sqlbuddy.conf
[16:59] <mhall119> ok
[16:59] <greiser> it didn't have any hosting information included, just the php sources etc....
[17:01] <greiser> i think with some more practice i'll get the hang of it all... and hopefully help package some really useful applications
[17:01] <mhall119> yeah, practice seems to be the only real way to learn it
[17:01] <mianosm2> Not bad 10 minutes, full install complete, definitely not minimal as advertised. :(
[17:02] <mhall119> what's not minimal about it?
[17:05] <mianosm2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/555864
[17:05] <mianosm2> all the python packages, all the perl packages, apparmor, ufw, tasksel, wireless (on a server?)....nano...etc...etc.
[17:06] <mianosm2> ttf
[17:06] <mhall119> well, yeah, lots of admin tools use perl or python
[17:06] <mianosm2> Minimal.
[17:06] <mhall119> tasksel is the easy way to get your services installed
[17:06] <mianosm2> Pressing F4 and choosing minimal should leave you with aptitude, or apt-get and wget.
[17:07] <mhall119> okay, so you didn't want ubuntu server, you wanted ubuntu core
[17:07] <mianosm2> tasksel is a neat tool, that I personally have _never_ used, as a systems administrator, I'd rather apt-get the most up to date in the repos
[17:07] <mhall119> or debootstrap
[17:07] <mianosm2> is there ubuntu core?
[17:07] <mhall119> i think all tasksel does is apt-get groups of packages from the repos
[17:08] <mianosm2> what if you install w/o a net connection? (waiting for static addresses).
[17:08] <mianosm2> at the UDS there was supposed to be a meeting about a pure _minimal_ install with the bare amount of packages from the get go (just enough to get you going, and add as you see fit).
[17:09] <mhall119> there is for livecds, I don't know about servers
[17:10] <maxolasersquad> I wish nautilus was better at managing memory.  I can't imagine why it needed to use a quarter gig of ram.  Especially when I had no nautilus browser windows open.
[17:11] <greiser> a core distro would be awesome
[17:11] <mhall119> nautilus also manages your desktop
[17:11] <maxolasersquad> Understood, but it still doesn't explain 250M ram usage.
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> A simple nautilus -q bring it down to 20M.
[17:12] <mhall119> yeah, mine is sitting at 49MB
[17:12] <mhall119> not sure what you had that made it 250M
[17:12] <mhall119> maybe thumbnailing a large file?
[17:12] <maxolasersquad> It does that to me sometimes.  I don't know either.
[17:13] <maxolasersquad> It definitely shoots up when I browse a certain folder where we store all of images for the webserver.
[17:13] <maxolasersquad> And it never seems to release them.
[17:13] <maxolasersquad> But it does it at other times to from just normal usage.
[17:13] <mhall119> sounds like it's cached thumbnails or something
[17:14] <maxolasersquad> Actually, I could care less how much ram it uses, as long as it is intelligent and releases some of that ram when paging is about to start.
[17:14] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: looks like you can debootstrap and apt-get install ubuntu-minimal
[17:14] <mhall119> that won't exactly give you a 'server' setup
[17:14] <mhall119> but it will be minimal
[17:15] <maxolasersquad> mianosm2: ^^
[17:15] <mhall119> right, mianosm2 
[17:15] <mhall119> too many m* nicks around here
[17:15] <maxolasersquad> ;)
[17:16]  * MichelleQ backs out quietly
[17:17] <mianosm2> afk, brb
[17:19] <dantalizing> did they decide to do openssh-server by default after all on ubuntu server?
[17:20] <dantalizing> i know kirkland had proposed it, but i've been out of band for so long i dont remember what the resolution was
[17:26] <mhall119> I'm not sure, I havent' done a server install since like 8.10
[17:30] <reya276> dantalizing, hey man
[17:30] <reya276> dantalizing, how have you been?
[17:35] <zoopster> dantalizing: it won't be a default, but will be the top listing in tasksel
[17:36] <dantalizing> hey reya276 sry been in a conversation
[17:36] <dantalizing> been good
[17:36] <dantalizing> ah cool zoopster ..thx for hte update
[18:25] <maxolasersquad> Is there any way to move a window from one monitor to the other using only the keyboard?
[18:26] <dantalizing> maxolasersquad: alt-space ....
[18:27] <maxolasersquad> I want to switch the monitor it is displayed on, in a multi-monitor environment, not the workspace.
[18:27] <dantalizing> ah sry
[18:27] <maxolasersquad> Is good.
[18:28] <maxolasersquad> ctrl+alt+shift+arrow is the best way IMO to switch the applications workspace.
[18:48] <zoopster> maxolasersquad: you are using twinview?
[18:50] <maxolasersquad> zoopster: I don't know.  I don't have a check in "Same image in all monitors" in Monitor Preferences.
[18:59] <mhall119> maxolasersquad: Alt+F7, then use your arrow keys
[18:59] <mhall119> press enter when you're done
[19:00] <dantalizing> any way to force an app to run only on one screen when you're doing multiple screens?
[19:00] <maxolasersquad> mhall119: Alt+F10 (unmaximize) Alt+F7 (move window) Alt+F10 (Maximize again)
[19:00] <maxolasersquad> Unfortunately less efficient than just picking up my mouse.
[19:00] <dantalizing> ie redefine "fullscreen" on a per-app basis
[19:01] <dantalizing> i want my games to run only on one, but keep another screen up for other stuff
[19:07] <maxolasersquad> dantalizing: I wish there was some sort of command-line option that X would recognize, so that the shortcuts in the Applications menu could be custom defined where to open app.
[19:08] <maxolasersquad> Or so that in startup applications I could defined a workspace and screen to auto-load applications on login.
[19:08] <maxolasersquad> I don't think anything like that is possible though.
[19:08] <dantalizing> i think devils-pie will do some of that
[19:08] <dantalizing> at least after the initial load, iirc, it will automate moving stuff
[19:12] <dantalizing> actually i need to google how to programmatically switch between a single screen (turn off monitor 2) and dual screen on the fly .... if I cant have my games on one screen while the other is up, at least I could have my shortcut dynamically turn off the 2nd monitor
[19:14] <mhall119> devils-pie will do it for metacity, compiz has a plugin for doing it too
[19:16] <dantalizing> anyone in here a ruby hacker?
[19:16] <mhall119> nope
[21:12] <greiser> anyone know where I can find cheap server hardware?
[21:13] <directionalpad> Craiglist
[21:13] <directionalpad> Craigslist rather.
[21:14] <greiser> i've looked... all they have are these really old machines...
[21:14] <mhall119> greiser: wha do you need?
[21:15] <greiser> I need at least a quad-core server (stand alone) in micro-atx or mini format....  I'm currently using an old Shuttle PC as my home server but it's a single core machine and makes a hell of a lot of noise
[21:15] <greiser> i need something to build src on and stuff
[21:15] <greiser> automated build server i guess
[21:15]  * MichelleQ considers inventory in shop
[21:15] <mhall119> ah, you don't want server hardware then
[21:15] <greiser> well...
[21:15] <greiser> i'm open to rack mounts
[21:15] <mhall119> server hardware is going to be big and noisy and power-hungry
[21:15] <greiser> just don't have a rack
[21:15] <maxolasersquad> greiser: How do you define "cheap"?
[21:16] <greiser> sub $300
[21:16] <greiser> :D
[21:16] <greiser> barebones
[21:16] <greiser> I have hard drives and stuff
[21:16] <mhall119> greiser: are you open to multi-CPU instead of multi-core?
[21:16] <greiser> sure
[21:16] <mhall119> send me an email, mhall119 at gmail, with an idea of what you'll need and I'll see what I have available
[21:17] <greiser> ok
[21:17] <mhall119> also, where in the state are you?
[21:17] <greiser> orlando
[21:17] <MichelleQ> eh, not a big deal to get it over to him
[21:17] <mhall119> ok, a reasonable driving distance from Lakeland
[21:17] <greiser> specifically, casselberry
[21:17] <greiser> upper northeast side of orlando
[21:17] <mhall119> oh well in that case...
[21:17] <mhall119> j/k
[21:18] <greiser> i'll drive..
[21:18] <directionalpad> Its not a bad drive to Mhalls place
[21:18] <mhall119> who is directionalpad ?
[21:18] <directionalpad> Maybe an hour, hour and a half
[21:18]  * MichelleQ was wondering the same thing
[21:18] <greiser> not if I drive
[21:18] <directionalpad> mhall119: roadmap =\
[21:18] <mhall119> oh hey
[21:18] <greiser> I could get there in 40
[21:18] <mhall119> it's roadmap!
[21:18] <directionalpad> Chunkxzor has been bugging me to come back in here
[21:18] <mhall119> bout time
[21:18] <directionalpad> For quite some time
[21:19] <dantalizing> nice directionalpad 
[21:19] <directionalpad> Now he's gone since all his machines are borked
[21:19] <dantalizing> welcome back
[21:19] <directionalpad> Thanks
[21:19] <MichelleQ> look!!  it's roadmap!!
[21:19]  * MichelleQ sees what you did there with the nic.
[21:19] <directionalpad> Ive been busy
[21:19] <directionalpad> very busy
[21:20] <directionalpad> This place has grown since I've been gone
[21:20] <MichelleQ> yah
[21:20] <mhall119> directionalpad: well without you scaring everybody away...
[21:20] <directionalpad> mhall119: Sshh. Thats our secret.
[21:20] <directionalpad> Well. Was.
[21:21] <greiser> ok mhall119 i sent you an email
[21:21] <mhall119> cool, I'll let you know what I fid
[21:21] <mhall119> find
[21:24] <mhall119> aw: http://systemoverlord.com/2011/01/19/is-25-old/
[21:24] <mhall119> as if looking at 30 wasn't bad enough
[21:26] <greiser> it's when they started.... not when they became notable...
[21:26] <greiser> as with anything.... most computer revolutions came right out of (or in) universities and colleges
[21:26] <mhall119> right, which means my future notability depends on what I've already done
[21:27] <directionalpad> mhall119: Unless you strike oil in your back yard. Then it depends on how much is under your house.
[21:27] <mhall119> so this perpetual motion machine I just finished is totally useless
[21:27] <mhall119> directionalpad: being in Florida, all any of us has under our houses is sand and water
[21:27] <MichelleQ> but it's nifty
[21:28] <directionalpad> mhall119: Hm. With that gulf oil spill maybe some oil has floated underneath us
[21:28] <mhall119> heh, true
[21:28] <mhall119> but only the thick tar parts that they just throw on the roads
[21:28] <directionalpad> Money is money =)
[21:29] <mhall119> true enough
[21:29] <greiser> it's ok....  I have Glo as my notable contribution to the world....
[21:29] <greiser> my charity work is complete....
[21:29] <directionalpad> My notable contributions come from all the charity work I do
[21:29] <mhall119> Glo?
[21:30] <greiser> http://www.globible.com
[21:30] <mhall119> oh, interesting
[21:30] <greiser> I wrote that last year... I'm responsible for the Architecture, graphics pipeline, procedural rendering techniques, and NUI
[21:30] <mhall119> did you make that yourself, or part of the company?
[21:30] <greiser> part of a company
[21:30] <mhall119> nice
[21:30] <directionalpad> Meh
[21:30] <directionalpad> I secured private investors for an upcomming project
[21:31] <MichelleQ> greiser: interesting!
[21:31] <greiser> i also wrote these guys tech before doing glo...  www.monstermedia.net
[21:32] <greiser> motion detection algorithms and NUI stuff
[21:32] <greiser> i'm big on programming algorithms and imaging stuff
[21:33] <greiser> game engines and the like
[21:33] <directionalpad> Yeah nobody gives me work
[21:33] <directionalpad> I gave up on that
[21:33] <directionalpad> Some days I regret becoming a programmer
[21:33] <directionalpad> but thats another story all togethe r=)
[21:34] <maxolasersquad> Hmmm, I feel like I'm just getting started in doing awesome things, and I'm set to turn 31 in a month.
[21:35] <maxolasersquad> Awesome things with technology that is.
[21:53] <greiser> i get a kick out of turing math problems and theory into usable code....
[21:53] <greiser> it satifys my inner nerd.....
[21:53] <dantalizing> i wrote hello world in snobol4
[21:54] <directionalpad> I write custom implementations for charities to allow them to take a number of payment methods directly through their website
[21:54] <directionalpad> Yay me.
[21:54] <directionalpad> =\ i do nothing interesting
[22:15] <greiser> brb