[10:20] <kwwii> good morning
[10:33] <thorwil> morning!
[11:19] <thorwil> hi ivanka. what happened with the survey?
[11:20] <ivanka> thorwil: I got lots of responses and have just started analysing this week. This is my first week back and there have been some minor dramas but I am almost back on track!
[11:20] <ivanka> thorwil: it also takes longer than I anticipated because the responses are so good and detailed
[11:24] <thorwil> ivanka: well, that's good, then
[11:24] <ivanka> thorwil: it's great, not just good :-)
[11:25] <thorwil> the ubuntu-art logo will be back on the table, soon. i kinda wish that it didn't happen at all
[11:59] <doctormo> thorwil: I agree :-) good morning
[12:01] <evilvish> doctormo: hey..
[12:01] <evilvish> doctormo: did you happen to catch yesterday's scrollback?
[12:01] <evilvish> doctormo: submit to artowl is broken.. :(
[12:03] <evilvish> thorwil: i nearly facepalmed and that alternate wallpaper mail yesterday..
[12:03] <evilvish> and thought, even faceplaming is a waste of time ;p
[12:04] <darkmatter> kinda like how I regularly facepalm at evilvish? ;)
[12:05] <evilvish> darkmatter: but you do facepalm.. \o/  while i dint ;p
[12:05] <darkmatter> lol
[12:06] <darkmatter> evilvish: I'll try that one day. may help in reducing headaches. facepalming hurts
[12:20] <doctormo> evilvish: Thanks for letting me know
[12:22] <evilvish> doctormo: np.. when it is fixed could you let me know? or can you reply to the last comment when it is done?  http://design.canonical.com/2011/01/bright-light-and-beautiful/
[12:23] <doctormo> evilvish: looks like it's not fixable, I'm not a php programmer so I don't know how to fix it.
[12:23] <doctormo> Just reproduced it, definitly a weird php error. Do we know anyone who does php?
[12:23] <evilvish> doctormo: ok np. or could you get me the error logs?  i can try to find someone else …
[12:24] <doctormo> evilvish: Think of me more are to organiser of owl art, it's based on ccHost.
[12:24] <doctormo> evilvish: Will grab logs now
[12:24] <evilvish> thx..!
[12:25] <thorwil> evilvish: heh, yeah, i wondered if and how to react to that and my mind stalled
[12:26] <doctormo> Ah damn, I don't have access to the logs. Will prod pleia2
[12:27] <thorwil> evilvish, doctormo: i though by now it was clear that ccHost doesn't like php 5, and that we have no one to fix that?
[12:27] <evilvish> can we move the site to drupal?
[12:28] <doctormo> evilvish: No, no more php sites, please
[12:28] <evilvish> thorwil: one last person has offered to have a look at it.. if that fails as well... maybe wiki submissions ;p
[12:28] <thorwil> pfft
[12:28] <doctormo> Let's face it, we simply don't have to tools to accept art over the internet.
[12:28] <evilvish> :D
[12:29] <thorwil> let's require submissions via letter post!
[12:29] <evilvish> heh.. we can just ask people to submit as attachments to a bug report in lp ;)
[12:29] <doctormo> evilvish: Where is good vish, I miss him.
[12:31] <evilvish> doctormo: vish is just tired of noob IRC users sending PMs and not waiting for replies :p
[12:33] <doctormo> evilvish: Ah well, I guess evil is ok, as long as you're not diabolical.
[12:33] <evilvish> haha!
[13:36] <darkmatter> -31 C. anyone feel like swapping locations? :D
[14:03] <thorwil> i'd shiver out of that location
[15:46] <darkmatter> evilvish: just had a cute idea for min/unmin in unity (since the default animations are unnaturally dizzying with the launcher on the side). since the launcher is more of a drawer/shelf seeming approach, it should be a "open/close" "collapse/expand" type animation imho. with a "<-[ ]" type glyph to collapse and a "[ ]->' glyph (on running apps in the launcher thingy) to expand.
[15:46] <darkmatter> maybe a little "flash" of light along the edge of the launcher tile on collapse as a visual cue
[15:46] <darkmatter> evilvish: think I should file a "you make me dizzy" bug? ;P
[15:47] <darkmatter> not sure how it would look on smaller windows, but would be nice and graceful on larger/maximized
[15:49] <evilvish> darkmatter: you'd have better luck getting your ideas implemented in gnome ;)
[15:49] <darkmatter> lol. I know
[15:52] <darkmatter> meh. technically just need to pester the compiz devs for an option. minimize does _not_ look natural when executed horizontally
[15:56] <doctormo> evilvish: I didn't think anyone, anywhere could get anything into gnome. Even if it made sense.
[15:56] <evilvish> doctormo: exactly! why i said the above ;)
[15:57] <doctormo> I met some of the gnome designers, they mean well, but my god have I never met more arrogant people. Well except for myself ;-)
[15:57] <evilvish> doctormo: darkmatter has had some pleasant experience getting his ideas implemented/used
[15:57]  * evilvish hides..
[15:58] <darkmatter> :P
[15:59] <darkmatter> evilvish: but I keep all the good ones to myself. why waste breath :P
[16:20] <thorwil> doctormo: designers sometimes have to be stubborn and very confident to get anywhere, and what's the difference between that and arrogance, anyway? :)
[16:22] <evilvish> thorwil: have you read robbiew's email sig?
[16:23] <thorwil> evilvish: nope
[16:26] <evilvish> thorwil: "Arrogance is thinking you are better than everyone else, while
[16:26] <evilvish> Confidence is knowing no one else is better than you."
[16:27] <thorwil> heh, yes, i did read that somewhere
[16:28] <evilvish> thorwil: yea.. it's in all of his mails.. he mentions he came up with that.. but whoeve..  it's a nice one ;)
[17:21] <doctormo> thorwil: It depends. The main problem with the gnome arrogance is that it's based within a limited social structure where very few people can act as peers or as users.
[17:22] <doctormo> I believe it's only possible to be confident about ui design when you either have access to solid usability research, or have access to large numbers of _friends_ who are users.
[17:22] <doctormo> Preferably both
[17:22]  * darkmatter agrees with doctormo
[17:22] <doctormo> The gnome team is very inwardly looking, they don't have the social support to make sure their ideas aren't warped by their echo chamber.
[17:23] <doctormo> Anyone outside of gnome isn't worthy of being listened to, or accepting rationally critique from. In fact the main modus is argument and defence.
[17:31] <evilvish> doctormo: any luck with the logs?
[17:32] <doctormo> evilvish: Remind me which logos? (I do lots of those)
[17:32] <evilvish> ohmy!
[17:32] <evilvish> doctormo: the art-owl logs.. ;)
[17:32] <doctormo> Oh logs! misread, sorry
[17:33] <evilvish> ah, i missed the last "o" too :)
[17:33] <doctormo> I've emailed Elizabeth, nothing more I can do but wait for her to give me access to them.
[17:33] <evilvish> doctormo: right,cool.. just making sure before i forget.. otherwise i'd remind you tomorrow and it would take another day :)
[17:34] <evilvish> timezones suck!
[17:34] <thorwil> that echo chamber and defensive stance thing is going on i a lot of places
[17:34] <evilvish> whoever had the brilliant idea of making the world round!
[17:36]  * darkmatter reformats the world as a mobius strip
[17:36] <darkmatter> evilvish: timezone that ^ :P
[17:38] <evilvish> hmm.. wouldnt be too bad.. only a few parts of the world would have light and some would/might never get light... we'd have a much more diverse collection of species. ;)
[17:40]  * evilvish steals darkmatter's planet idea for AVATAR2 ;p
[17:40] <darkmatter> hehe
[17:43] <doctormo> thorwil: I agree, I kinda like elementary for being a little more open in that regard.
[17:44] <doctormo> evilvish: Those planets exist, they're still round, they're just tidily locked to their star. Usually red dwarfs.
[17:45] <thorwil> doctormo: _mobius_strip_  planets?
[17:45] <doctormo> Nope, mobius strips are 3D objects, you want a 2D concept. A square will do it.
[20:31] <thorwil> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/backtestground-explained/
[20:39] <coz_> thorwil,  I think I am confused about this backtestbground...  I did the python setup.py   ,,, if I have an image  how again do I run to-common-resolutions
[20:40] <thorwil> coz_: in a terminal: to-common-resolutions filename
[20:40] <coz_> mm that didnt work but let me try again
[20:40] <thorwil> (tab completion really shines with those longish command names)
[20:41] <thorwil> coz_: if it throws out an error about something not found, you have an old tarball
[20:41] <coz_> to-common-resolutions  command not found
[20:41] <coz_> oh
[20:41] <coz_> mm I just reinstalled it let me find a newer version then
[20:42] <thorwil> coz_: wait
[20:42] <coz_> thorwil,  could be I am on natty
[20:42] <thorwil> coz_: do "echo $PATH"
[20:42] <thorwil> and look for "/usr/local/bin" in that list
[20:43] <coz_> its there
[20:43] <coz_> oh wait
[20:43] <coz_> no its /usr/local/sbin
[20:43] <coz_> nope wrong again
[20:43] <coz_> there is a /usr/local/bin
[20:44] <coz_> bad day I think :)
[20:44] <thorwil> coz_: what does "which to-common-resolutions" say?
[20:44] <coz_> nothing
[20:45] <thorwil> coz_: you read and followed INSTALL?
[20:45] <coz_> I believe so but let me do it again hold on
[20:49] <coz_> setup script did not provide a directory for '' -- installing right in 'build/bdist.linux-i686/egg'
[20:50] <thorwil> coz_: paste files.txt
[20:52] <coz_> damn   ok didnt work but  let me come back .. family is needing me to do things...be back in a bit
[20:56] <thorwil> unfortunately, i have to log out for today. sorry to coz_