[00:00] <pleia2> hooray!!
[00:00] <akk> yay!
[00:44] <nhaines> Oh wow, Jane Silber (CEO of Canonical) will be giving one of the keynotes this year.
[00:45] <akk> Two for two women keynoters!
[00:47] <pleia2> yeah, I noticed that the other night and smiled :)
[00:47] <pleia2> yay leigh and jane!
[00:49] <pleia2> kinda makes me think "are we done? can we pack up the ubuntu women project and go home now?" ;)
[00:49] <nhaines> pleia2: it's not time to put the chairs on the tables and turn off the lights just yet.  :)
[00:50] <pleia2> well, hopefully some time in the next few years
[01:29] <dragon> jtatum, MarkDude: We have a slot available at Yahoo! LAMP Meetup next month, and I'm wondering if there's something you'd like to present.
[01:30] <dragon> pleia2, Yasumoto, jledbetter, others in the area who might be interested in presenting, please see above ^
[01:30] <MarkDude> Fedora and the lampstack of course
[01:30] <dragon> MarkDude: Fedora vs Ubuntu?
[01:31] <MarkDude> After that I can do Slackware and LAMP
[01:31] <MarkDude> No vs
[01:31] <dragon> alright, I think that sounds reasonable.
[01:31] <dragon> What'd be the content?
[01:32] <MarkDude> If I were doing a comparison, I would have 3 or more, and I dont really know that much more with the exception of Puppy:D
[01:33]  * MarkDude looked into LAMP for Fedora at the same time as my last talk
[01:33] <MarkDude> Pretty straight forward
[01:33] <dragon> Well, we discussed setting up LAMP on Ubuntu the last time. I was hoping for something more technical this time.
[01:33] <dragon> jtatum talked about PHP on Ubuntu, right?
[01:33] <MarkDude> Then what the hell are you doing talking to me?
[01:34] <MarkDude> lol
[01:34] <dragon> MarkDude: you don't have to be a developer to give a techie talk ;)
[01:35]  * MarkDude kids. I was thinking I would do the talk in a similar fashion to jtatum did 
[01:35] <MarkDude> All professional, with slides matching.
[01:35] <dragon> yep, and also if you know someone else who's willing to talk, that works too.
[01:35] <dragon> o.O
[01:36] <MarkDude> http://fedorasolved.org/server-solutions/lamp-stack
[01:37] <MarkDude> Its called unity -lol
[01:37] <dragon> Namespace collision
[01:37] <dragon> setting up a Python framework on Linux would be a good talk too.
[01:38] <dragon> Doing a hello world in Django ain't that easy.
[01:42] <dragon> Will 2/24 work for the LAMP meetup? I suppose not, since SCaLE is on the following weekend.
[01:42] <MarkDude> Hmmm
[01:43] <MarkDude> When is the Ignite at the Dojo?
[01:43] <MarkDude> Did you see what Van sent out?
[01:43] <pleia2> I saw a cancel notice
[01:43] <MarkDude> Yes and a link to the dojo having one
[01:44] <MarkDude> and taking Speaker suggestion/ideas
[01:44] <pleia2> ahhttp://events.hackerdojo.com/event/383001-ignite-silicon-valley-3
[01:44] <pleia2> feb 11th
[01:44] <MarkDude> Cool
[01:46] <MarkDude> dragon, can we do confirmation on it tomorrow?
[01:46] <dragon> yes, MarkDude.
[01:46] <dragon> Proposed date is 2/17
[01:46] <MarkDude> Can I Ustream it
[01:47] <MarkDude> ?
[01:47] <jledbetter> dragon, Can't but thank you for thinking of me:)
[01:47] <jledbetter> MarkDude, And you are hilarious, sir :)
[01:48] <dragon> MarkDude: yes, of course!
[01:49] <dragon> jledbetter: you're welcome. :) If you have anyone else in mind who might be interested and available, it'd be great!
[01:53] <jledbetter> dragon, Maybe nUb? He's offline though.
[01:53] <jledbetter> Oh! And ustreaming? srsly? That'd rock :) Saw some from nygivecamp and thought it was a fantastic idea. Surprised more don't do it.
[01:54]  * MarkDude has his video from his session on the Ustream
[01:54] <MarkDude> Horrible video
[01:54] <MarkDude> Ok sound
[01:55] <dragon> MarkDude: this time we could use the phone to stream directly. I think it stores things offline and uploads them differently to improve the quality.
[01:55] <MarkDude> It is real easy to do, the camera is not so great on this machine. We had a wireless mic- made into a directional using a dixie cup
[01:56] <dragon> Oh yeah, that part worked well I suppose!
[01:56] <MarkDude> Sure. we could do the phone thing direct
[01:57] <MarkDude> jledbetter, maybe another time we can have our names on the same bill.
[01:59] <jledbetter> MarkDude, Yep :) For sure!
[02:00]  * jledbetter will warm up the crowd for ya.
[02:00] <MarkDude> lol
[02:00]  * MarkDude has decided to let people vote on me wearing the Penguin suit for talk, when it is relevant
[02:01] <MarkDude> Like it truly ever is, but, I digress...
[02:02] <jledbetter> lol
[02:03] <pleia2> btw, this is not diner food http://www.fogcitydiner.com/menu_dinner.html
[02:03] <pleia2> oh san francisco
[02:03] <pleia2> ur doin' it wrong
[02:06] <jledbetter> You are correct. That is not. I guess that is "west coast diner" or "fusion diner" ;)
[02:08] <MarkDude> That is food people eat after returning home from drinking all night
[02:08] <MarkDude> 3am party
[02:09] <jledbetter> Oh? 3am party around here is Denny's :D
[02:09] <jledbetter> Though I absolutely loved Love N Haight. Mmmm.
[03:31] <ekajjake> hey
[03:44] <MarkDude> hello ekajjake
[03:45] <ekajjake> just found this irc channel hha
[03:45] <ekajjake> woo
[03:45] <ekajjake> !
[03:46] <jtatum> welcome
[03:47] <MarkDude> California Team, welcome
[03:47] <jtatum> how'd you find us?
[04:18] <ekajjake> i was looking around the ubuntu wiki
[04:53] <MarkDude> There are ubuntu Hours in a few places in the state ekajjake
[04:53] <MarkDude> Im Mark nice to meet you
[04:55] <akk> Speaking of Ubuntu hours, http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california says mountain view is on Jan. 21 (that's Fri)
[04:56] <akk> but http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/608/detail/ says it's Thu, 20 Jan
[04:57] <rww> huh, LoCo Directory does timezones now?
[05:00] <rww> (considering that it's on 21st in UTCland, perhaps timezones are new and it's a bug)
[05:02] <rww> ah, yes. the bug to track adding TZ support to LP got closed this past release, so timezones are new.
[05:02] <rww> s/LP/LD/
[05:04] <akk> ugh -- if the events on that page are in UTC we should try to get the page to say so.
[05:05] <akk> Nobody searching for an event on a page that says "California" would assume UTC by default.
[05:05] <rww> indeed
[05:06] <rww> report a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+filebug ;)
[05:07] <akk> Should I? Is this likely not known?
[05:07] <rww> I didn't see a bug reported for it, half of the developers are in UTC or close to it, and that project really likes bug reports, so yes.
[05:08] <akk> okay, will do
[05:13] <akk> Hmm, before I file the bug: I'm not convinced this is a timezone problem. The San Diego one says Jan 22 on the events page and also if I click through to the page just for that event.
[05:13] <akk> Maybe it's just that the Mountain View one was listed with the wrong date.
[05:14] <rww> the san diego one's in Jan 22 in UTC
[05:14] <rww> if my hypothesis is right, anything in our timezone that's before 4PM UTC will look fine
[05:14] <rww> sorry, 4PM local
[05:14] <akk> Oh, it's 11am.
[05:14] <rww> (midnight UTC)
[05:15] <akk> And SCALE (which is also right) is probably also listed as a morning time.
[05:16] <rww> yup. Looks like they're using the start date/time, which is 9am
[05:20] <akk> filed
[20:23] <MarkDude> pleia2, aaditya, rbarot_ nUboon2Age  would you be free on Sunday for a BBQ and getting some hardware ready for donation?
[20:23] <pleia2> unfortunately not, I'm on call this weekend
[20:23] <MarkDude> other folks in the area also
[20:23] <nUboon2Age> sounds like fun.  i'm not sure if i could go all the way to the east bay though
[20:23] <MarkDude> we can pick you up from dublin
[20:23] <MarkDude> nUboon2Age,
[20:24]  * pleia2 chained to desk fri-mon
[20:24] <MarkDude> if aaditya can make it
[20:24] <nUboon2Age> yeah if aaditya could make it that would make it soooooooooooooooo much more reasonable and doable MarkDude
[20:24] <nUboon2Age> i could then ride w/ him
[20:25]  * MarkDude claps hands together to summon the power of the DRAGON
[20:25] <MarkDude> :)
[20:25] <nUboon2Age> i have church in the morning and until the early afternoon MarkDude though
[20:25] <nUboon2Age> but later in the pm would work
[20:25] <nUboon2Age> like no earlier than 3pm
[20:26] <MarkDude> k
[20:27] <MarkDude> It is just a few machines, 3 people would be enough
[20:27] <MarkDude> More the merrier tho
[20:28] <MarkDude> many hands= light work
[20:31] <nUboon2Age> what kinds of things do you want to do to/with the machines?
[20:35] <nUboon2Age> MarkDude: ^
[20:36] <MarkDude> make sure we have at least one P4 with 512 ram for Partimus- installed and working
[20:36] <MarkDude> at least one for the Philippines
[20:36] <MarkDude> can be P3
[20:37] <MarkDude> test a few components like cards, memory etc
[20:37] <MarkDude> mostly take the flowcharts that free geek has, see how well they work for us
[20:37] <MarkDude> modify etc
[20:38] <MarkDude> we are doing this in a one day model
[20:38] <nUboon2Age> Tonight: Mountain View Ubuntu Hour 7PM Red Rock Coffee on Castro Street and Villa; Details and RSVP:  aaditya, akk, jamalta, jamie, coherence, crashsystems, crashsystems1, ekajjake, esrrms, jamalta, jiboumans, jledbetter, jtatum, rbarot_, seidos, Yasumoto, MarkDude
[20:38] <nUboon2Age> Details and RSVP: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/608/detail/
[20:38] <seidos> nUboon2Age, i'm not in SF anymore
[20:39] <nUboon2Age> oh bummer man. seidos
[20:39] <nUboon2Age> you mean you moved to San Jose seidos? :-)  THE City?
[20:39] <seidos> nUboon2Age, yeah, it was time to leave...but things are okay here.
[20:40] <seidos> nUboon2Age, ha, no.  there is no place in San Jose for me.  just as there is no place for me in SF
[20:40] <nUboon2Age> i wouldn't be so sure amigo, seidos
[20:40] <seidos> well, unless i was diesel enough to live in a park or something
[20:40] <jamie> nUboon2Age, mountainview is a bit of a drive from vallejo.. waiting for one in san fran or closer
[20:40] <nUboon2Age> diesel enough?  never heard that expression seidos
[20:40] <seidos> nUboon2Age, strong/tough
[20:41] <seidos> capable?
[20:41] <MarkDude> jamie, what about you? I am in Danville
[20:41] <MarkDude> Slightly closer :)
[20:41] <jamie> is there a ubuntu hour in danville?
[20:42] <nUboon2Age> MarkDude: when are you and your buds going to start a Lindependence Hour in the East Bay to include folk like jamie?
[20:42] <MarkDude> I meant for Sunday the BBQ and hardware thing
[20:42] <MarkDude> We are installing Ubuntu on the machines
[20:42] <nUboon2Age> well i keep wondering when you're going to do a Lindependence Hour though, MarkDude
[20:42] <jamie> ok im sorry i missed that what are the details?
[20:43] <jamie> what is lindependence hour?
[20:43] <nUboon2Age> just like Ubuntu Hour except multi-distro jamie
[20:44] <pleia2> ubuntu hour: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
[20:44] <MarkDude> Meet at my place Sunday in the afternoon BBQ, and take some of the computers we have and get then ready to donate
[20:44] <MarkDude> 2 of them just need installs and burn-in
[20:45] <MarkDude> I want to test some memory we are giving to Partimus
[20:45] <jamie> MarkDude, sunday afternoons i teach a sunday school class in napa saturday wouldnt work?
[20:45] <MarkDude> Np, jamie another time :)
[20:46] <jamie> sorry sundays are always busy but saturdays and most evenings i can work in
[20:47] <MarkDude> Which reminds me- if anyone has any memory lying around let me know- the school Linux computer labs have 20+ machines that mostly need memory
[20:47] <jamie> i have a bunch of extra hard drive but no ram?
[20:47] <jamie> oops didnt mean to add '?'
[20:48] <MarkDude> it would be cheap and easy to mail. We need 512 ram to keep them not slow
[20:48] <MarkDude> hold on to them - when we meet I can pick them up and bring them to the lab
[20:48] <MarkDude> go ahead and DBAN them to get them ready if you want to  :)
[20:49] <jamie> they are formatted but what is dban?
[20:49] <MarkDude> dban.org
[20:49] <MarkDude> Dariks boot and nuke
[20:49] <MarkDude> protects privacy
[20:50] <MarkDude> we use it on every hard drive
[20:50] <pleia2> essentially a lower level disk format
[20:50] <jamie> cool ill have to look that up
[20:50] <MarkDude> or hit it with hammer
[20:50] <MarkDude> most important thing with donations is to do that
[20:51] <MarkDude> pleia2, is correct, it also writes it with random data, to make it Dept of defense level secure
[20:55] <jamie> i have a window washer that does that also but it takes for ever
[21:04] <MarkDude> DOD level 7 can take a whole day for a large drive
[21:16] <nUboon2Age> pleia2: i just noticed a bug:  all the dates are one day off on http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california
[21:17] <pleia2> that's because it's showing in UTC time, akk filed a bug last night
[21:17] <nUboon2Age> oh good
[21:27] <nUboon2Age> pleia2: did you or could you please tweet tonight's Ubuntu Hour?
[21:27] <pleia2> right! I'll get to that as soon as I'm off the phone w/ boss
[21:32] <nUboon2Age> ty pleia2
[22:15] <iheartubuntu> hey seidos how are you doing in the new year!
[22:15] <seidos> iheartubuntu, not bad, not good
[22:15] <seidos> you?
[22:16] <iheartubuntu> about the same
[22:16] <iheartubuntu> cant get a loan refi. sucks.
[22:16] <iheartubuntu> house half value as when i bought it (gulp)
[22:16] <seidos> i have property and i don't have property
[22:19] <iheartubuntu> enjoy ubuntu now that i skinned it with the dark version of elementary
[22:20] <iheartubuntu> gosh, feels like a brand new system all of a sudden
[22:20] <rww> I got a new power adapter for my netbook. 350MB of updates from now, I'll be able to play with Natty again ;)
[22:21] <iheartubuntu> how is natty coming along?
[22:22] <iheartubuntu> ive had to focus on other stuff lately
[22:22] <rww> Still very alpha. devel releases tend to take about another month to be usable, and natty's no exception. Coding a whole new shell doesn't help that.
[22:22] <iheartubuntu> we dont have to use unity do we?
[22:23] <rww> although it probably got better in the last couple of weeks, we'll see
[22:23] <iheartubuntu> i like 10.10 just the way it is!
[22:23] <rww> iheartubuntu: no, there's an option for whether to use it or the regular gnome-panel desktop on the login screen
[22:24] <iheartubuntu> ok whwew
[22:24] <rww> assuming Unity and gnome-shell are both stable at release, GNOME will have three viable shells in 11.04. Should be interesting.
[22:25] <akk> Ugh, is ubuntu going to start co-opting the term "shell" to mean "desktop environment"?
[22:25]  * akk wonders what term we'll be able to use when we actually want to say "shell"
[22:26]  * iheartubuntu switching back to dropbox :(
[22:26] <rww> no. "shell" is the part of the desktop environment that the user clicks on to launch stuff
[22:26] <rww> hence gnome-shell
[22:27] <rww> (well, launch stuff, see current time, etc. the stuff on the screen that isn't window decorations or applications ;)
[22:27] <akk> It's still annoying that they're co-opting a perfectly good term that means something else already.
[22:27] <akk> That's something microsoft loves to do.
[22:29] <rww> I use KDE anyway, I'm just playing with this because I'm bored ;P
[22:30] <rww> (which uses the term "Plasma Workspace")
[22:35] <iheartubuntu> why KDE over gnome?
[22:35] <iheartubuntu> just curious
[22:39] <rww> I like KDE's applications and the way things are laid out fit my workflow better.
[22:40] <iheartubuntu> i guess thats why i like gnome in ubuntu :)
[22:40] <iheartubuntu> i do like kde, but every time i use it, i have to relearn how to find my apps so i always end up back in gnome
[22:41] <iheartubuntu> maybe thats why im leery of unity
[22:41] <rww> *nods* desktop environment choice is subjective. Is why every time anything changes (buttons moving from right to left, anyone?), people get unhappy.
[22:44] <MarkDude> xserver has a nice simple clean Win 3.1 look
[23:04] <nUboon2Age> akk: gnome-shell isn't an Ubuntu term afaik.  itsom GNOME i believe
[23:04] <nUboon2Age> akk: gnome-shell isn't an Ubuntu term afaik.  its from GNOME i believe
[23:05] <akk> I know, gnome had the silly "gnome-shell", but that doesn't explain suddenly using the term "shell" to mean "some part of a desktop environment".
[23:05] <nUboon2Age> where is that happening akk?
 assuming Unity and gnome-shell are both stable at release, GNOME will have three viable shells in 11.04. Should be interesting.
[23:06] <akk> ... bash, zsh and tcsh?
[23:07] <rww> I note that the article on shells in wikipedia differentiates between GUI shells and CLI shells.
[23:07] <pleia2> I was using an alternate windows shell in 2001, so it's not a new application of the term, maybe just new-ish to the linux world?
[23:07] <rww> Windows and other OSen also have a concept of GUI shells. This isn't a GNOME thing.
[23:07] <rww> pleia2: indeed
[23:07] <rww> litestep <3
[23:07] <pleia2> same :)
[23:08] <akk> Ah, so it's microsoft co-opting terms again! And it's only recently that ubuntu is picking it up.
[23:08] <rww> or it's one of the valid definitions of the word "shell" and you haven't encountered it before ;)
[23:09] <akk> I had never heard anyone use the term in relation to any MS GUI, but I don't spend much time in the MS world.
[23:13] <pleia2> I think swapping out shells in Windows isn't very common because explorer is so super integrated with everything, so you don't hear about it too much
[23:15] <pleia2> (litestep when I used it wasn't exactly the most stable thing in the world, it just looked cool and gave me more customization options than explorer)
[23:15] <pleia2> luckily I soon saw the light and learned that linux was even *more* customizable - and stable! :)
[23:33] <nUboon2Age> i've seen talk of "Powershell" in Winduhs. don't know much about it.
[23:37] <nhaines> Powershell is a new CLI shell for Windows.
[23:44] <rww> Well, Unity doesn't work at all after natty updates. So that's fun.
[23:49] <seidos> weeeee
[23:50] <rww> and nautilus just crashed.
[23:51] <rww> time to see if Kubuntu packages are doing any better ;)