[01:44] <chibihogoshino> hows the convention cyberanger ?
[03:00] <netritious> howdy locotn
[03:08] <wrst> howdy netritious
[03:08] <netritious> how are things wrst?
[03:08] <wrst> pretty good how are you doing netritious?
[03:09] <netritious> pretty good
[03:09] <netritious> went to the meetup today
[03:09] <wrst> how was it?
[03:19] <netritious> wrst: pretty good
[03:19] <netritious> didn't exactly go as planned either, but I'll be more prepared next time....
[03:19] <wrst> cool, a loco meetup?
[03:19] <netritious> was invited back at least
[03:19] <netritious> and thanks again to Midsouth Makers for having me
[03:19] <netritious> wrst: yes
[03:20] <wrst> cool netritious
[03:25] <netritious> I kept trying to clone a usb thumb drive to another usb thumb drive that was oh so slightly smaller
[03:25] <netritious> clonezilla was not happy about it
[03:26] <netritious> if I would have had thought about it, I would have just resized the source usb thumb drive, but didn't think about it until I was on the way home lol
[03:36] <wrst> haha your thumb drive is awesome
[03:41] <netritious> :)
[03:41] <netritious> wrst: I'm reading now about how to backup and restore a MBR using dd, and also how puppy uses grub4dos by default
[03:42] <wrst> hmm backup and restoring the MBR that's cool stuff
[03:43]  * netritious gets a little nervous when dd and MBR are mentioned in the same sentence :P
[03:43] <wrst> well yeah :)
[03:43] <wrst> dd scares me a little anyway
[03:44] <netritious> I'm trying to figure out if it's even possible to install grub4dos using ubuntu
[03:45] <netritious> I haven't just had a whole lot of luck with it, but then again I have no idea what I'm doing lol..i kinda do but reminds me of old days with norton disk doctor trying to fix mbr
[03:46] <netritious> well not as bad as that, but bad enough hehe
[03:46] <netritious> anyway trying to figure it out now
[03:48] <wrst> what exactly is grub4dos netritious?
[04:02] <netritious> wrst: it's a bootloader like grub
[04:03] <netritious> a little more flexible than grub or grub2, at least that's what I keep reading
[04:06] <wrst> hmm cool
[04:06] <wrst> well i don't have a real high opinion of grub2 but it seems to be improving
[04:15] <netritious> I agree
[04:16] <netritious> for a while there I was removing grub2 and installing grub
[04:50] <netritious> nite everyone...afk
[05:36] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: sweet
[15:13] <orangeninja> Hello
[15:29] <chibihogoshino> hello orangeninja
[15:29] <orangeninja> hi
[15:29] <chibihogoshino> whats up ?
[15:31] <orangeninja> nothing much....
[15:31] <orangeninja> just kicking around the idea of making my hp dv6775us laptop all Ubuntu with 10.10
[15:32] <orangeninja> i have it deul booted with 10.04 and vista right now
[15:32] <chibihogoshino> nice
[15:33] <orangeninja> anything I should look out for?
[15:35] <chibihogoshino> id try out the live install and make sher everything works ok..
[15:35] <chibihogoshino> i havent ran 10.10 yet so im not up on what all has changed..
[15:35] <orangeninja> what are you running?
[15:35] <chibihogoshino> 10.04
[15:36] <chibihogoshino> from what i saw they didnt change much so im going to wait till the next release .. that should be a big update
[15:37] <orangeninja> hmmm, maybe I should just use 10.04 myself
[15:38] <orangeninja> just got to find the old iso again.....ha
[15:38] <chibihogoshino> you need the download page ?
[15:39] <orangeninja> naw, I got that, I am dloading 10.10 right now from it
[15:39] <chibihogoshino> ah
[15:39] <chibihogoshino> when more people come back online in here you could ask them about 1010
[15:42] <orangeninja> yeah, I really have no idea
[15:42] <orangeninja> I just really started messing with Linux seriously..
[15:43] <chibihogoshino> cool
[15:44] <chibihogoshino> what got you interested in linux ?
[15:47] <orangeninja> hmmm well
[15:48] <orangeninja> I guess, IT security type stuff. and it being free.
[15:49] <chibihogoshino> security is a good part of it ..
[15:50] <chibihogoshino> i like how you can change anything about it, look at all the code and get help with almost anything
[15:51] <orangeninja> I just have a genuine interest in computers and I like messing around with them when I can.
[15:51] <orangeninja> I also like that too. it seems you make Linux what you want it to be.
[15:53] <chibihogoshino> yeah.. especially if you run arch or crunch bang .. doing a manual install, you learn allot
[15:55] <orangeninja> yeah, I did a gentoo years ago, got it working for an hour or so but crashed the xorg and never got it up again. I used the online documantaion to do it step by step.
[15:56] <chibihogoshino> x can be picky
[15:57] <orangeninja> yeah old nvidia drivers about 5 or 6 years ago
[15:57] <orangeninja> I think I tried to change the resolution to something other that 800x600 and that crashed it. I had cli but I new nothing at all back then.
[15:57] <chibihogoshino> i never had a problem with nvivia .. ati
[15:58] <chibihogoshino> ati i did but they have gotten allot better
[15:58] <chibihogoshino> did you edit the xconfig ?
[15:59] <orangeninja> ha, I tried several things I just know I broke it.
[15:59] <chibihogoshino> ah..
[16:00] <chibihogoshino> it could be refresh rate, monitor or video card timing..
[16:00] <chibihogoshino> color depth..
[16:00] <orangeninja> the community was as helpful as they could be with a guy on his first experiance with linux. I have no idea why I tried that.
[16:00] <chibihogoshino> its great you got it working tho
[16:01] <orangeninja> well they had documantation online so i just followed that word for word from another computer.
[16:02] <orangeninja> ahhh I know why I did it....
[16:04] <chibihogoshino> whys that ?
[16:05] <orangeninja> a book called hacking: the art of exploitation Jon Erickson he said he used Gentoo so I had to get it. HA ha ha
[16:05] <orangeninja> http://www.amazon.com/Hacking-Art-Exploitation-Jon-Erickson/dp/1593271441/ref=pd_sim_b_9
[16:05] <chibihogoshino> ahh :-)
[16:06] <chibihogoshino> its got good reviews
[16:09] <orangeninja> yeah it was good. I guess that is also what helped open my eyes to linux
[16:09] <chibihogoshino> did you read it all ?
[16:11] <orangeninja> no, I read probably half skipping here and there. at the time I knew nothing of linux, and I still know nothing of assembly or and kind of programming.
[16:12] <orangeninja> I did understand his section of buffer overflows and why they worked. but I could not create one or anything,
[16:12] <chibihogoshino> cool..
[16:13] <chibihogoshino> i dont know how that works..
[16:13] <chibihogoshino> iv tried learning programing but it never worked out
[16:14] <orangeninja> well I have "looked" into it too. but never really stayed with it.
[16:17] <chibihogoshino> i like python
[16:18] <chibihogoshino> im trying to learn that but its going slow
[16:18] <orangeninja> is python the one everyone says you should start with?
[16:21] <chibihogoshino> i think so
[16:21] <chibihogoshino> you can do allot with it
[16:28] <chibihogoshino> what part of tn are you in ?
[16:38] <orangeninja> Im in Nashville
[16:38] <orangeninja> you?
[16:39] <chibihogoshino> knoxville
[16:45] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: yea python
[16:45] <chibihogoshino> yeah if i can figure it out
[17:07] <orangeninja> how far are you into learning it chibihogoshino?
[17:11] <chibihogoshino> how far ?
[17:11] <chibihogoshino> i would like to make some gui aps if i can
[17:14] <orangeninja> just beginning?
[17:14] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[17:17] <orangeninja> on youtube I searched Python Programming and found a playlist with 43 videos. Pretty good too.
[17:17] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[17:17] <chibihogoshino> i need to find a book or something that makes it make sense to my brain
[17:24] <chibihogoshino> oh.. cyberanger do you remember who was having a problem with the google search dns redirects with comcast ?
[17:25] <chibihogoshino> this guy reminds me of rodney mckay
[17:25] <chibihogoshino> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKTZoB2Vjuk
[17:42] <orangeninja> print 'I'\m just a﻿ computer, I can\'t understand.' this guy is cracking me up
[18:02] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: not offhand
[18:02] <cyberanger> but I don't recall anything dns related in here recently
[18:03] <chibihogoshino> ahh.. i was looking at it again and you can disable the redirect in the comcast user account settings
[18:03] <cyberanger> aside from myself, between dns hijacking and OpenNIC
[18:03] <chibihogoshino> heh
[18:06] <cyberanger> intresting, esp if it's not a cookie
[18:09] <cyberanger> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/08/comcasts-dns-redirect-service-goes-nationwide.ars
[18:10] <cyberanger> I like the MAC address method, but they need to simplify it for avg joe
[18:10] <cyberanger> or make it opt in
[18:16] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[18:45] <cyberanger> it really needs to be opt in
[18:45] <cyberanger> not opt out
[18:45] <cyberanger> it can cause so many issues
[18:46] <cyberanger> thus why I was being real careful doing it here
[18:46] <cyberanger> targetting two subdomains
[18:47] <cyberanger> ideally next year I'll have apublic ubuntu mirror
[18:47] <cyberanger> and just do it to my own subdomains
[18:47] <cyberanger> and change apt here
[18:48] <cyberanger> there was no issues in doing it small scale, but was it standards compliant, no
[18:48] <cyberanger> and the hotel breaks standardswith a captive portal
[18:48] <cyberanger> but an isp, ugh
[20:43] <chibihogoshino> dns should be locally cached along with the web site name only remotely looked up if the site is not known.. the web site should also give its web address to verify that is the site you are trying to reach.
[20:49] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: true, ideally
[20:50] <cyberanger> but that's gotta be suppported, and with a long ttl
[20:50] <chibihogoshino> yeah
[20:52] <chibihogoshino> unlimited ttl would be ok since it would expire when the page cant be found or the website name changed
[21:33] <cyberanger> chibihogoshino: that's not true
[21:33] <cyberanger> if it's a dns cacheing server, or client
[21:33] <cyberanger> since it's not a dns issue
[21:33] <chibihogoshino> if the web pages publish the web site name to verify the address youll know if your at the right one or not
[21:33] <cyberanger> routing issue or daemon issue usually
[21:36] <cyberanger> the only way to sidestep a cache with a bad result is purge it and query the authoritive nameserver
[21:37] <cyberanger> there were some attacks where the ttl was set to 68 years
[21:37] <chibihogoshino> thats how it works now ..
[21:38] <cyberanger> and hotspots hijack dns for a captive portal in some setups, set the ttl to 60 sec. or less
[21:39] <chibihogoshino> what would that matter if your computer didnt check a external dns server ?
[21:42] <cyberanger> the long ttl, I hijack the dns server on a hotspot, set the ttl to 68 years for facebook.com, but point it at porn or an attack site
[21:43] <cyberanger> and you leave the hotspot, still a long ttl
[21:43] <chibihogoshino> if my computer isnt looking at that and getting the ip from its own cache that wont matter
[21:43] <cyberanger> and since I was the authoritive server, nothing upstream to check
[21:44] <cyberanger> yes, but I took advantage of the hotspots captive portal
[21:44] <cyberanger> you were firewalled off
[21:44] <cyberanger> queried the dns server dhcp told you of
[21:45] <chibihogoshino> ok
[21:46] <cyberanger> it's a system needing overhauls for sure
[21:46] <chibihogoshino> did you tell them ?
[21:48] <cyberanger> but if you cache my site, www.zachgibbens.geek, to my ip for a long time, it'll resolve to my current server, what would tell it of my other server
[21:48] <cyberanger> like if I moved my mailserver from google to my own, or something
[21:49] <cyberanger> tell who, ICANN?
[21:49] <chibihogoshino> it would check with the external dns server
[21:50] <chibihogoshino> but the web pages would verify them self with a key so you know your at the right site
[21:50] <chibihogoshino> like they kinda do now
[21:50] <cyberanger> everyone high enough in the chain knows, dnssec extensions is the current patch
[21:52] <cyberanger> well, if a webserver has ssl, it validates it
[21:52] <cyberanger> but that's not the current system for http or dns
[21:53] <cyberanger> except with dnssec
[21:53] <cyberanger> but the cache trusts the ttl
[21:53] <chibihogoshino> http://www.dnssec.comcast.net/
[21:53] <chibihogoshino> heh
[21:54] <cyberanger> my cached result for mail will still resolve to google, and since the route works, the ttl is good
[21:54] <cyberanger> it won't goto my box
[21:54] <cyberanger> until the ttl runs out
[21:55] <chibihogoshino> ehh
[21:55] <chibihogoshino> i dont like this
[21:55] <cyberanger> but when I change, wit a reasonable value, it'll update
[21:56] <cyberanger> well, it's a system of trust
[21:56] <chibihogoshino> its taking control out of the users hands
[21:56] <cyberanger> dns has allways been outside the users hands
[21:57] <chibihogoshino> the verification process is done through the isp with dnssec tho
[21:57] <cyberanger> cause it replaced the hosts file in the early days
[21:57] <cyberanger> something the admin did
[21:58] <cyberanger> or I can sidestep the isp, and run dnssec
[21:59] <cyberanger> as a cacheing server
[21:59] <cyberanger> once the entire root is signed, it'll work
[22:00] <cyberanger> but just like ipv4 to ipv6, it's not overnight
[22:00] <chibihogoshino> how big would that be tho
[22:01] <cyberanger> bandwidth, disk space, memory, fine by todays standards
[22:01] <cyberanger> but dns's early days, no way
[22:02] <cyberanger> and it took a long time for alot of the attacks to be found
[22:04]  * chris4585 pokes wrst 
[22:04] <cyberanger> it's just a core service with them found now
[22:05] <cyberanger> literally core, without going back to hosts files and remembering ip addresses
[22:07] <chibihogoshino> hmm
[22:07] <cyberanger> or a replacement