| === peregrinator_six is now known as Monarquista | ||
| deathguppie | so after having gotten my sound problem figured out.. | 02:55 |
|---|---|---|
| deathguppie | I can't seem to figure out how to use plugins/effexts in ardour because the online manual and the application don't work the same way. | 02:56 |
| ScottL | deathguppie, do you know what the mixer in ardour is? | 03:27 |
| === Monarquista is now known as peregrinator_six | ||
| ScottL | deathguppie, and which online manual are you using? there may be a better (or more current) one | 03:29 |
| ScottL | deathguppie, this is a good page from a new ardour manual that shows plugins in ardour: http://en.flossmanuals.net/Ardour/UsingPlugIns | 03:30 |
| Submarine | Hi there. | 11:45 |
| Submarine | I'm running vanilla Ubuntu 10.10 with the -studio packages added on top + a lowlatency kernel | 11:45 |
| Submarine | any indication as to how to reduce XRUNs? | 11:45 |
| ScottL | Submarine, have you tried adjusting the JACK settings? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToJACKConfiguration | 12:03 |
| ScottL | it also depends on your hardware as well | 12:03 |
| Submarine | mmh | 12:04 |
| Submarine | playback on internal Intel i8x0 | 12:04 |
| Submarine | recording on external USB card | 12:04 |
| gordonjcp | Submarine: don't do that, then | 12:15 |
| gordonjcp | you can't (reliably) mix cards in jack | 12:15 |
| Submarine | aaah, -S ! | 12:16 |
| Submarine | gordonjcp: I cannot do otherwise easily. | 12:16 |
| gordonjcp | use alsa_in or alsa_out then | 12:17 |
| Submarine | uh? | 12:17 |
| gordonjcp | set up jack to play and record on one card, and use alsa_in to create another set of inputs | 12:19 |
| Submarine | I think I'm getting lost here. | 12:32 |
| gordonjcp | you can run another program that will give you a set of jack ports and connect to a physical soundcard | 12:32 |
| gordonjcp | the problem is, if you are trying to capture and play back on different interfaces the timing between the two cards gets a bit squiffy after a while, because they're not clocked at exactly the same rate | 12:33 |
| Submarine | mmh | 12:43 |
| Submarine | also something: I have the impressions things go better with 48 kHz | 12:44 |
| Submarine | perhaps it's due to the fact that 48 is a multiple of 1 kHz, which is the USB freq | 12:44 |
| paultag | Submarine: but data exchange does not take an even cycle | 13:11 |
| paultag | Submarine: so, it becomes a packing problem anyway. It's just placebo effect | 13:12 |
| paultag | Submarine: and 48 is not a multiple of 1 kHz, you might be thinking divisor or factor | 13:13 |
| paultag | which I don't get frankly -- 1024 / 48 = 21.3 | 13:15 |
| Submarine | paultag: 48 kHz = 48 x 1 kHz | 13:17 |
| Submarine | so it means exactly 48 samples per USB cycle | 13:17 |
| Submarine | IF the sound card synchs its clock to the USB bus (which I don't know whether it does) | 13:18 |
| paultag | Submarine: ah, I see what you're saying | 13:18 |
| paultag | Submarine: it's digital | 13:18 |
| Submarine | then it means always the same isochronous payload per USB cycle | 13:18 |
| paultag | Submarine: so packets don't take the one cycle | 13:18 |
| Submarine | uh? | 13:18 |
| paultag | Submarine: e.g. word size is dynamic iirc | 13:18 |
| Submarine | word size? | 13:19 |
| paultag | Submarine: size of the data being transfered | 13:19 |
| Submarine | in the USB protocols, isochronous endpoints (those used for e.g. sound cards) need some kind of pre-reservation | 13:20 |
| Submarine | basically, the operating system needs to allocate a certain portion of the 1 ms cycle for such or such type of isochronous payload | 13:21 |
| paultag | Submarine: it does not matter | 13:21 |
| paultag | Submarine: USB protocol is not suited for this sort of work -- and the data burst is not consistant from second to second | 13:21 |
| Submarine | the data burst? | 13:23 |
| paultag | Submarine: how much data is exchanged betwixt the computer and the USB device | 13:23 |
| Submarine | it's not consistent?! | 13:23 |
| Submarine | from what I know of the USB protocol, it is actually very consistenyt | 13:26 |
| Submarine | but of course, since everything is clocked at 1ms slices | 13:26 |
| Submarine | then you have at least 1ms latency | 13:26 |
| scott-work | Submarine: i think what paultag is saying is that although the USB protocol might be consistent the data traveling through it is not | 13:38 |
| scott-work | Submarine: i don't believe data traveling through jack will syncronize with the USB cycle, therefore jack will try to move data irregardles of the USB cycle | 13:40 |
| scott-work | Submarine: i don't have a USB audio interface, but it has been discussed somewhat frequently and i believe the general conclusion is that USB 1.0 is not terribly suited for audio work | 13:41 |
| scott-work | although USB 2.0 has been touted as equivalent, if not better, than firewire | 13:41 |
| scott-work | i can't comment further as I am rather ignorant about USB 2.0 | 13:42 |
| Submarine | mmh | 13:42 |
| Submarine | I don't know USB2 - I've only read the USB1.1 spec. | 13:42 |
| * scott-work was trying to read IRC logs to see what i've missed after leaving for work, but IRC logs aren't updating :( | 13:42 | |
| scott-work | morning paultag, how was skiing? | 14:19 |
| holstein | paultag: i had that exchange on the mailing list recently | 14:40 |
| holstein | about USB | 14:40 |
| holstein | i was saying, go to a pro-studio | 14:42 |
| holstein | and look around and take note of how many USB interfaces are in use | 14:42 |
| paultag | hey holstein, scott-work | 15:03 |
| paultag | sorry, I was out for a bit | 15:03 |
| paultag | scott-work: skiing was amazing ( as usual ;) ) | 15:03 |
| paultag | scott-work: dude, I had an amazing day yesterday -- I'm going to close out every RC bug against fluxbox on the next upload, and packaged a fix for a DD buddy of mine. I'm on a roll | 15:04 |
| paultag | scott-work: also, yes, that's what I was trying to say to Submarine, but the morning coffee had not kicked in yet ;) | 15:07 |
| paultag | so I mumbled and sounded dumb as hell ;) | 15:08 |
| Submarine | Is LinuxSampler any good? | 15:28 |
| Submarine | qsampler crashes on startup... | 15:28 |
| gordonjcp | apparently linuxsampler is good | 15:32 |
| gordonjcp | I couldn't figure out how to use it | 15:32 |
| holstein | Submarine: several linuxsampler folk in #opensourcemusicians | 15:32 |
| gordonjcp | I keep meaning to join that channel | 15:33 |
| holstein | there was a lot of talk over there about it recently | 15:34 |
| holstein | several trying to make vitrual instruments | 15:34 |
| gordonjcp | in linuxsampler, or standalone? | 15:34 |
| Submarine | I currently use Yoshimi and Qsynth (FluidSynth) | 15:35 |
| Submarine | and Hydrogen | 15:35 |
| Submarine | any opinion about other possible tools? | 15:35 |
| gordonjcp | nekobee, nekostring ;-) | 15:35 |
| gordonjcp | don't get too used to them, there's a big update looming for both | 15:35 |
| gordonjcp | one critical change is that external control won't suck in the future | 15:36 |
| * gordonjcp rarely uses softsynths any more | 15:36 | |
| holstein | gordonjcp: sampling was what came up | 15:36 |
| holstein | and linux sampler was suggested | 15:36 |
| gordonjcp | holstein: ah | 15:36 |
| holstein | to make the instrument | 15:37 |
| gordonjcp | I didn't get on with Linuxsampler at all | 15:37 |
| holstein | yeah, i tried once | 15:37 |
| holstein | i might try again though | 15:37 |
| holstein | with the OSMP folk | 15:37 |
| holstein | someone was planning on making some tutorials | 15:37 |
| holstein | that would help | 15:37 |
| gordonjcp | ye | 15:42 |
| gordonjcp | I found a good solution | 15:42 |
| gordonjcp | solved my sampling problems instantly | 15:42 |
| gordonjcp | I bought an ESI-4000 for £100 and stuck 128M into it | 15:42 |
| holstein | gordonjcp: specimen is easy | 16:10 |
| gordonjcp | holstein: yeah, I like specimen | 16:12 |
| holstein | nice for a quick sample | 16:12 |
| scott-work | paultag: congrats on fixing all the bugs against fluxbox, i think once ubuntu studio gets more stable for natty i'm going to play with it | 16:18 |
| Submarine | what are the differences between installing the UbuntuStudio distro and installing the normal Ubuntu + ubuntustudio-audio package? | 16:21 |
| holstein | Submarine: very little | 16:21 |
| holstein | in theory, they can both be the same | 16:21 |
| holstein | IF you take the time to configure them to be like the other | 16:21 |
| holstein | ubuntu = ubuntustudio | 16:21 |
| holstein | ubuntustudio out of the box has lots of packages added | 16:22 |
| Submarine | I mean, does UbuntuStudio 10.10 ship with a special kernel? | 16:22 |
| holstein | and several taken away | 16:22 |
| holstein | Submarine: realtime kernel? | 16:22 |
| holstein | we cant ship with the realtime kernel anymore | 16:22 |
| holstein | since 10.10 | 16:22 |
| holstein | till probably 12.04 | 16:22 |
| holstein | Submarine: you can add the one from natty *if* you need it | 16:23 |
| Submarine | that's what I did, I added the lowlatency kernel | 16:23 |
| Submarine | I'm unsure about differences | 16:23 |
| holstein | the plan is that the generic kernel will be appropriate for our needs | 16:23 |
| holstein | soon | 16:23 |
| scott-work | i wouldn't expect an actual "real time" kernel to ever ship with ubuntu studio again | 16:23 |
| holstein | Submarine: do you use rakarrack? or other realtime effects? | 16:24 |
| scott-work | however we should be able to get the -lowlatency kernel either in natty or the next release | 16:24 |
| holstein | do you plan on using software synthesisers live Submarine ? | 16:24 |
| holstein | scott-work: yeah, -lowlatency | 16:24 |
| holstein | if you have -lowlatency kernel in 10.10 Submarine | 16:25 |
| holstein | thats probably the best for RT purposes | 16:25 |
| Submarine | holstein: I'm tempted to | 16:26 |
| Submarine | but I currently have the following problem | 16:26 |
| Submarine | my good quality audio acquisition cards are USB | 16:26 |
| holstein | right | 16:27 |
| holstein | kernel wont help that | 16:27 |
| holstein | maybe IRQ settings | 16:27 |
| holstein | if you can | 16:27 |
| holstein | ive tried both those kernels | 16:27 |
| holstein | the natty ones | 16:27 |
| holstein | in natty, with my firewire device | 16:28 |
| holstein | and the -lowlatency one is great | 16:28 |
| holstein | arguably better than the perfomance im getting with -realtime in 10.04 | 16:28 |
| holstein | at least as good though * | 16:28 |
| Submarine | if I only use the internal sound card, which is fine if I do only playback | 16:29 |
| holstein | Submarine: what are you expecting from USB ? | 16:29 |
| holstein | latency-wise? | 16:29 |
| Submarine | well | 16:29 |
| Submarine | I have to experiment more | 16:29 |
| Submarine | so far I was running jackd2 | 16:29 |
| holstein | i would consider anything near 10ms nice | 16:29 |
| Submarine | and only lately I discovered that jackd2 by default starts in asynchronous mode | 16:29 |
| holstein | 20ms would probably be what i would expect from a USB device | 16:29 |
| Submarine | and this mode tends to behave badly | 16:29 |
| holstein | i have different JACK profiles | 16:30 |
| holstein | i have a mixing profile which is 60ms or so | 16:30 |
| holstein | i have a normal one thats around 5ms | 16:30 |
| holstein | and a live one with 2.4ms or os | 16:31 |
| holstein | so* | 16:31 |
| Submarine | yes, but you need to restart Jack every time? | 16:31 |
| holstein | sure | 16:31 |
| Submarine | is there a way to change settings w/o restarting Jack? | 16:31 |
| holstein | its got a button | 16:31 |
| holstein | stop | 16:31 |
| holstein | start | 16:31 |
| holstein | no big deal | 16:31 |
| Submarine | yes, but then all clients disconnect and some don't auto reconnect | 16:31 |
| holstein | thats why i have a modest in between setting | 16:31 |
| holstein | for my workflow | 16:32 |
| holstein | its not a problem | 16:33 |
| Submarine | well, for the internal sound card, I have 5.3 ms latency | 16:33 |
| Submarine | perhaps I could go below but I already get xruns | 16:33 |
| Submarine | I'm unsure why | 16:33 |
| holstein | 11ms is fine | 16:33 |
| holstein | if you feel 11 is too low | 16:33 |
| Submarine | external I have 32 ms | 16:33 |
| Submarine | but maybe I could go below | 16:33 |
| holstein | scoot your chair forward closer to the speakers ;) | 16:33 |
| Submarine | I'll have to experiment | 16:34 |
| Submarine | external is a setup with USB as input and onboard as output | 16:34 |
| holstein | Submarine: totally depends on what you need to do | 16:34 |
| holstein | if your just overdubbing in ardour | 16:34 |
| Submarine | record guitar | 16:34 |
| Submarine | so far I'm not using effects directly | 16:34 |
| Submarine | record vocals too | 16:34 |
| holstein | doesnt really matter what the latency is | 16:34 |
| holstein | ardour adjusts that | 16:35 |
| holstein | you can set it to 60mx | 16:35 |
| Submarine | I'm using Rosegarden | 16:35 |
| holstein | you can set it to 60ms* | 16:35 |
| Submarine | I could perhaps use Ardour instead... | 16:35 |
| holstein | Submarine: RG for? | 16:35 |
| holstein | recording audio? | 16:35 |
| Submarine | midi + audio | 16:35 |
| holstein | if you're wanting to play a midi controller | 16:35 |
| holstein | keyboard or whatever | 16:35 |
| Submarine | maybe I should use Ardour and keep RG as a slave | 16:35 |
| holstein | 11ms is what i think would be the minimum | 16:35 |
| holstein | BUT | 16:36 |
| holstein | you can fire up JACK and the external rig | 16:36 |
| holstein | track what you want | 16:36 |
| holstein | at like 60ms | 16:36 |
| holstein | then switch to the internal | 16:36 |
| holstein | and go down to 5 | 16:36 |
| holstein | do your midi | 16:36 |
| holstein | with the midi | 16:36 |
| holstein | you're not taking advantage of the arguably cleaner input | 16:37 |
| holstein | of the USB device | 16:37 |
| holstein | and the output will be fine | 16:37 |
| holstein | and thats not going to tape anyways | 16:37 |
| Submarine | I'm not using external MIDI input much | 16:38 |
| Submarine | and anyway, MIDI is a slow serial protocol, isn't it? | 16:38 |
| holstein | doesnt matter | 16:38 |
| holstein | its not doing much | 16:39 |
| Submarine | (this is an old MIDI keyboard with the real MIDI wiring, not firewire) | 16:39 |
| holstein | the DATA is small for midi | 16:39 |
| holstein | but, you use the USB device to route the midi controller? | 16:39 |
| Submarine | it's another USB device | 16:39 |
| holstein | cool | 16:40 |
| Submarine | it's a old-style-midi to USB converter | 16:40 |
| holstein | so you can get away with using the internal card | 16:40 |
| holstein | and the lower latency | 16:40 |
| holstein | with the controller | 16:40 |
| holstein | in that scenario | 16:40 |
| holstein | everything that is going to tape | 16:40 |
| Submarine | but the 32ms isn't that annoying for recording? | 16:40 |
| holstein | is generated by the computer anyways | 16:40 |
| holstein | Submarine: set it to 60 or so | 16:40 |
| holstein | and see | 16:41 |
| holstein | it *should* time align | 16:41 |
| holstein | in ardour | 16:41 |
| holstein | ardour* | 16:41 |
| holstein | hehe | 16:41 |
| holstein | i spelled it right | 16:41 |
| holstein | just looked funny | 16:41 |
| Submarine | I should try Ardour instead of Rosegarden then | 16:42 |
| Submarine | does Ardour use Jack transport? if it does, then it syncs Rosegarden anyway | 16:42 |
| holstein | well, its a matter of the right tool for the job i think | 16:42 |
| holstein | IF you're doing audio recording in linux | 16:42 |
| holstein | ardour is the tool | 16:43 |
| holstein | multitrack audio | 16:43 |
| Submarine | now how about mixing? | 16:43 |
| holstein | yup | 16:43 |
| holstein | mixing too | 16:43 |
| Submarine | does Ardour do mixing + LADSPA / DSSI plugins? | 16:43 |
| holstein | sure | 16:43 |
| holstein | and ardour uses JACK | 16:43 |
| holstein | so anything in JACK can be used | 16:43 |
| holstein | while tracking | 16:43 |
| holstein | or mixing | 16:43 |
| Submarine | then I should probably try Ardour + Rosegarden as a slave for the MIDI part | 16:44 |
| holstein | sure | 16:44 |
| holstein | or build a testing verion of ardour with MIDI support | 16:44 |
| holstein | i wouldnt expect it to work well though | 16:44 |
| holstein | for a while | 16:44 |
| holstein | ardour 3 is in https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid-latest | 16:46 |
| holstein | but i wouldnt take that lightly | 16:46 |
| holstein | if you dont have ppa purge ability | 16:46 |
| holstein | eitherway, be cautious | 16:47 |
| Submarine | mmmh | 16:47 |
| Submarine | yalking about multiple applications | 16:47 |
| Submarine | one thing that's not foolproof if is you use several applications, then configurations have to be kept in sync | 16:47 |
| Submarine | I mean, you have to fire them all, watch for Jack to connect properly | 16:47 |
| Submarine | and load all the presets | 16:47 |
| Submarine | is there some tool that helps in loading/saving entire presets? | 16:48 |
| holstein | i just connect all my jack stuff | 16:48 |
| holstein | each time | 16:48 |
| holstein | i like to see it | 16:48 |
| holstein | i consider that a feature | 16:48 |
| holstein | BUT | 16:48 |
| holstein | there is ladish | 16:48 |
| Submarine | yes, but all the drums, etc. | 16:48 |
| holstein | yup | 16:48 |
| holstein | a feature :) | 16:48 |
| holstein | http://www.ohloh.net/p/ladish | 16:49 |
| holstein | but i hear you | 16:49 |
| holstein | i just remember firing up cubase in XP | 16:49 |
| holstein | and not even realizing there was an alternative | 16:49 |
| holstein | where i could route whatever i want | 16:49 |
| holstein | where ever i want | 16:49 |
| Submarine | I used to run Cubase on 2000. | 16:55 |
| Submarine | Then I had to upgrade the computer, and realized that Cubase and Vista don't mix | 16:55 |
| Submarine | or maybe I would have to upgrade Cubase or I don't know | 16:55 |
| holstein | yup | 16:56 |
| Submarine | I had never tried the Linux alternatives, even though I run Linux since 1997 | 16:56 |
| Submarine | well, I had tried them back then but nothing worked | 16:56 |
| holstein | its come a long way | 16:56 |
| paultag | scott-work: let me know if you have issues :) | 17:01 |
| === vlada is now known as Guest13315 | ||
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