=== peregrinator_six is now known as Monarquista [02:55] so after having gotten my sound problem figured out.. [02:56] I can't seem to figure out how to use plugins/effexts in ardour because the online manual and the application don't work the same way. [03:27] deathguppie, do you know what the mixer in ardour is? === Monarquista is now known as peregrinator_six [03:29] deathguppie, and which online manual are you using? there may be a better (or more current) one [03:30] deathguppie, this is a good page from a new ardour manual that shows plugins in ardour: http://en.flossmanuals.net/Ardour/UsingPlugIns [11:45] Hi there. [11:45] I'm running vanilla Ubuntu 10.10 with the -studio packages added on top + a lowlatency kernel [11:45] any indication as to how to reduce XRUNs? [12:03] Submarine, have you tried adjusting the JACK settings? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToJACKConfiguration [12:03] it also depends on your hardware as well [12:04] mmh [12:04] playback on internal Intel i8x0 [12:04] recording on external USB card [12:15] Submarine: don't do that, then [12:15] you can't (reliably) mix cards in jack [12:16] aaah, -S ! [12:16] gordonjcp: I cannot do otherwise easily. [12:17] use alsa_in or alsa_out then [12:17] uh? [12:19] set up jack to play and record on one card, and use alsa_in to create another set of inputs [12:32] I think I'm getting lost here. [12:32] you can run another program that will give you a set of jack ports and connect to a physical soundcard [12:33] the problem is, if you are trying to capture and play back on different interfaces the timing between the two cards gets a bit squiffy after a while, because they're not clocked at exactly the same rate [12:43] mmh [12:44] also something: I have the impressions things go better with 48 kHz [12:44] perhaps it's due to the fact that 48 is a multiple of 1 kHz, which is the USB freq [13:11] Submarine: but data exchange does not take an even cycle [13:12] Submarine: so, it becomes a packing problem anyway. It's just placebo effect [13:13] Submarine: and 48 is not a multiple of 1 kHz, you might be thinking divisor or factor [13:15] which I don't get frankly -- 1024 / 48 = 21.3 [13:17] paultag: 48 kHz = 48 x 1 kHz [13:17] so it means exactly 48 samples per USB cycle [13:18] IF the sound card synchs its clock to the USB bus (which I don't know whether it does) [13:18] Submarine: ah, I see what you're saying [13:18] Submarine: it's digital [13:18] then it means always the same isochronous payload per USB cycle [13:18] Submarine: so packets don't take the one cycle [13:18] uh? [13:18] Submarine: e.g. word size is dynamic iirc [13:19] word size? [13:19] Submarine: size of the data being transfered [13:20] in the USB protocols, isochronous endpoints (those used for e.g. sound cards) need some kind of pre-reservation [13:21] basically, the operating system needs to allocate a certain portion of the 1 ms cycle for such or such type of isochronous payload [13:21] Submarine: it does not matter [13:21] Submarine: USB protocol is not suited for this sort of work -- and the data burst is not consistant from second to second [13:23] the data burst? [13:23] Submarine: how much data is exchanged betwixt the computer and the USB device [13:23] it's not consistent?! [13:26] from what I know of the USB protocol, it is actually very consistenyt [13:26] but of course, since everything is clocked at 1ms slices [13:26] then you have at least 1ms latency [13:38] Submarine: i think what paultag is saying is that although the USB protocol might be consistent the data traveling through it is not [13:40] Submarine: i don't believe data traveling through jack will syncronize with the USB cycle, therefore jack will try to move data irregardles of the USB cycle [13:41] Submarine: i don't have a USB audio interface, but it has been discussed somewhat frequently and i believe the general conclusion is that USB 1.0 is not terribly suited for audio work [13:41] although USB 2.0 has been touted as equivalent, if not better, than firewire [13:42] i can't comment further as I am rather ignorant about USB 2.0 [13:42] mmh [13:42] I don't know USB2 - I've only read the USB1.1 spec. [13:42] * scott-work was trying to read IRC logs to see what i've missed after leaving for work, but IRC logs aren't updating :( [14:19] morning paultag, how was skiing? [14:40] paultag: i had that exchange on the mailing list recently [14:40] about USB [14:42] i was saying, go to a pro-studio [14:42] and look around and take note of how many USB interfaces are in use [15:03] hey holstein, scott-work [15:03] sorry, I was out for a bit [15:03] scott-work: skiing was amazing ( as usual ;) ) [15:04] scott-work: dude, I had an amazing day yesterday -- I'm going to close out every RC bug against fluxbox on the next upload, and packaged a fix for a DD buddy of mine. I'm on a roll [15:07] scott-work: also, yes, that's what I was trying to say to Submarine, but the morning coffee had not kicked in yet ;) [15:08] so I mumbled and sounded dumb as hell ;) [15:28] Is LinuxSampler any good? [15:28] qsampler crashes on startup... [15:32] apparently linuxsampler is good [15:32] I couldn't figure out how to use it [15:32] Submarine: several linuxsampler folk in #opensourcemusicians [15:33] I keep meaning to join that channel [15:34] there was a lot of talk over there about it recently [15:34] several trying to make vitrual instruments [15:34] in linuxsampler, or standalone? [15:35] I currently use Yoshimi and Qsynth (FluidSynth) [15:35] and Hydrogen [15:35] any opinion about other possible tools? [15:35] nekobee, nekostring ;-) [15:35] don't get too used to them, there's a big update looming for both [15:36] one critical change is that external control won't suck in the future [15:36] * gordonjcp rarely uses softsynths any more [15:36] gordonjcp: sampling was what came up [15:36] and linux sampler was suggested [15:36] holstein: ah [15:37] to make the instrument [15:37] I didn't get on with Linuxsampler at all [15:37] yeah, i tried once [15:37] i might try again though [15:37] with the OSMP folk [15:37] someone was planning on making some tutorials [15:37] that would help [15:42] ye [15:42] I found a good solution [15:42] solved my sampling problems instantly [15:42] I bought an ESI-4000 for £100 and stuck 128M into it [16:10] gordonjcp: specimen is easy [16:12] holstein: yeah, I like specimen [16:12] nice for a quick sample [16:18] paultag: congrats on fixing all the bugs against fluxbox, i think once ubuntu studio gets more stable for natty i'm going to play with it [16:21] what are the differences between installing the UbuntuStudio distro and installing the normal Ubuntu + ubuntustudio-audio package? [16:21] Submarine: very little [16:21] in theory, they can both be the same [16:21] IF you take the time to configure them to be like the other [16:21] ubuntu = ubuntustudio [16:22] ubuntustudio out of the box has lots of packages added [16:22] I mean, does UbuntuStudio 10.10 ship with a special kernel? [16:22] and several taken away [16:22] Submarine: realtime kernel? [16:22] we cant ship with the realtime kernel anymore [16:22] since 10.10 [16:22] till probably 12.04 [16:23] Submarine: you can add the one from natty *if* you need it [16:23] that's what I did, I added the lowlatency kernel [16:23] I'm unsure about differences [16:23] the plan is that the generic kernel will be appropriate for our needs [16:23] soon [16:23] i wouldn't expect an actual "real time" kernel to ever ship with ubuntu studio again [16:24] Submarine: do you use rakarrack? or other realtime effects? [16:24] however we should be able to get the -lowlatency kernel either in natty or the next release [16:24] do you plan on using software synthesisers live Submarine ? [16:24] scott-work: yeah, -lowlatency [16:25] if you have -lowlatency kernel in 10.10 Submarine [16:25] thats probably the best for RT purposes [16:26] holstein: I'm tempted to [16:26] but I currently have the following problem [16:26] my good quality audio acquisition cards are USB [16:27] right [16:27] kernel wont help that [16:27] maybe IRQ settings [16:27] if you can [16:27] ive tried both those kernels [16:27] the natty ones [16:28] in natty, with my firewire device [16:28] and the -lowlatency one is great [16:28] arguably better than the perfomance im getting with -realtime in 10.04 [16:28] at least as good though * [16:29] if I only use the internal sound card, which is fine if I do only playback [16:29] Submarine: what are you expecting from USB ? [16:29] latency-wise? [16:29] well [16:29] I have to experiment more [16:29] so far I was running jackd2 [16:29] i would consider anything near 10ms nice [16:29] and only lately I discovered that jackd2 by default starts in asynchronous mode [16:29] 20ms would probably be what i would expect from a USB device [16:29] and this mode tends to behave badly [16:30] i have different JACK profiles [16:30] i have a mixing profile which is 60ms or so [16:30] i have a normal one thats around 5ms [16:31] and a live one with 2.4ms or os [16:31] so* [16:31] yes, but you need to restart Jack every time? [16:31] sure [16:31] is there a way to change settings w/o restarting Jack? [16:31] its got a button [16:31] stop [16:31] start [16:31] no big deal [16:31] yes, but then all clients disconnect and some don't auto reconnect [16:31] thats why i have a modest in between setting [16:32] for my workflow [16:33] its not a problem [16:33] well, for the internal sound card, I have 5.3 ms latency [16:33] perhaps I could go below but I already get xruns [16:33] I'm unsure why [16:33] 11ms is fine [16:33] if you feel 11 is too low [16:33] external I have 32 ms [16:33] but maybe I could go below [16:33] scoot your chair forward closer to the speakers ;) [16:34] I'll have to experiment [16:34] external is a setup with USB as input and onboard as output [16:34] Submarine: totally depends on what you need to do [16:34] if your just overdubbing in ardour [16:34] record guitar [16:34] so far I'm not using effects directly [16:34] record vocals too [16:34] doesnt really matter what the latency is [16:35] ardour adjusts that [16:35] you can set it to 60mx [16:35] I'm using Rosegarden [16:35] you can set it to 60ms* [16:35] I could perhaps use Ardour instead... [16:35] Submarine: RG for? [16:35] recording audio? [16:35] midi + audio [16:35] if you're wanting to play a midi controller [16:35] keyboard or whatever [16:35] maybe I should use Ardour and keep RG as a slave [16:35] 11ms is what i think would be the minimum [16:36] BUT [16:36] you can fire up JACK and the external rig [16:36] track what you want [16:36] at like 60ms [16:36] then switch to the internal [16:36] and go down to 5 [16:36] do your midi [16:36] with the midi [16:37] you're not taking advantage of the arguably cleaner input [16:37] of the USB device [16:37] and the output will be fine [16:37] and thats not going to tape anyways [16:38] I'm not using external MIDI input much [16:38] and anyway, MIDI is a slow serial protocol, isn't it? [16:38] doesnt matter [16:39] its not doing much [16:39] (this is an old MIDI keyboard with the real MIDI wiring, not firewire) [16:39] the DATA is small for midi [16:39] but, you use the USB device to route the midi controller? [16:39] it's another USB device [16:40] cool [16:40] it's a old-style-midi to USB converter [16:40] so you can get away with using the internal card [16:40] and the lower latency [16:40] with the controller [16:40] in that scenario [16:40] everything that is going to tape [16:40] but the 32ms isn't that annoying for recording? [16:40] is generated by the computer anyways [16:40] Submarine: set it to 60 or so [16:41] and see [16:41] it *should* time align [16:41] in ardour [16:41] ardour* [16:41] hehe [16:41] i spelled it right [16:41] just looked funny [16:42] I should try Ardour instead of Rosegarden then [16:42] does Ardour use Jack transport? if it does, then it syncs Rosegarden anyway [16:42] well, its a matter of the right tool for the job i think [16:42] IF you're doing audio recording in linux [16:43] ardour is the tool [16:43] multitrack audio [16:43] now how about mixing? [16:43] yup [16:43] mixing too [16:43] does Ardour do mixing + LADSPA / DSSI plugins? [16:43] sure [16:43] and ardour uses JACK [16:43] so anything in JACK can be used [16:43] while tracking [16:43] or mixing [16:44] then I should probably try Ardour + Rosegarden as a slave for the MIDI part [16:44] sure [16:44] or build a testing verion of ardour with MIDI support [16:44] i wouldnt expect it to work well though [16:44] for a while [16:46] ardour 3 is in https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid-latest [16:46] but i wouldnt take that lightly [16:46] if you dont have ppa purge ability [16:47] eitherway, be cautious [16:47] mmmh [16:47] yalking about multiple applications [16:47] one thing that's not foolproof if is you use several applications, then configurations have to be kept in sync [16:47] I mean, you have to fire them all, watch for Jack to connect properly [16:47] and load all the presets [16:48] is there some tool that helps in loading/saving entire presets? [16:48] i just connect all my jack stuff [16:48] each time [16:48] i like to see it [16:48] i consider that a feature [16:48] BUT [16:48] there is ladish [16:48] yes, but all the drums, etc. [16:48] yup [16:48] a feature :) [16:49] http://www.ohloh.net/p/ladish [16:49] but i hear you [16:49] i just remember firing up cubase in XP [16:49] and not even realizing there was an alternative [16:49] where i could route whatever i want [16:49] where ever i want [16:55] I used to run Cubase on 2000. [16:55] Then I had to upgrade the computer, and realized that Cubase and Vista don't mix [16:55] or maybe I would have to upgrade Cubase or I don't know [16:56] yup [16:56] I had never tried the Linux alternatives, even though I run Linux since 1997 [16:56] well, I had tried them back then but nothing worked [16:56] its come a long way [17:01] scott-work: let me know if you have issues :) === vlada is now known as Guest13315