[01:32] <nigelb> AlanBell: Goa was lovely :)
[01:37] <hajour> good night all :)
[01:52] <Pendulum> morning nigelb 
[01:56] <nigelb> morning Pendulum :)
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: you run dasher in Ubuntu, right?
[18:33] <charlie-tca> Do you have System -> Preferences -> Assistive Technologies -> Enable assistive technologies    checked?
[19:03] <charlie-tca> well, anyway, with assistive technologies checked, I can not reproduce the dasher segfaults
[19:07] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: I'm fairly certain it's checked (I'm not on Ubuntu right now)
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[19:08] <Pendulum> it may just be rotten luck for me. it's not consistant that it crashes :-/
[19:12] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: yes, it's checked
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Yeah, I got two of you crashing it, and I can't seem to. I will keep trying
[19:54] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: there's hope. According to the developer, I stumbled on something that he thinks might help get it fixed
[19:56] <UndiFineD> sad: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=637621
[19:56] <ubot2> Gnome bug 637621 in speech "Orca crashes, logs me out" [Major,Resolved: invalid]
[19:57] <UndiFineD> waited for a month for "mike" to contact me on making a backup of at-spi registry
[20:00] <charlie-tca> like so many others, we get to try to figure out what went wrong
[20:02] <maco> Pendulum: can you "ulimit -c 0" please?
[20:02] <maco> i think its 0...lemme double check
[20:02] <UndiFineD> yes, and I was willing to make a backup, but then not to be contected is ... wrong
[20:02] <Pendulum> maco: huh?
[20:03] <maco> sudo ulimit -S -c 0
[20:03] <maco> itll make it so when something crashes you get a core file instead of no hints remaining of what happend
[20:03] <Pendulum> ah
[20:03] <Pendulum> that is helpful :)
[20:03] <Pendulum> yes, I'll do that
[20:04] <maco> that can be tossed at gdb to get a stacktrace
[20:04] <maco> with stacktraces, maaaaaybe i could try to be helpful
[20:05] <Pendulum> maco: it's telling me command not found for ulimit
[20:05] <maco> oh hmm apparently use it without sudo
[20:06] <Pendulum> have set it so we'll see what happens, I guess?
[20:06] <maco> and whoops i have this backwards. ulimit -S -c unlimited
[20:06] <maco> 0 is the disabling thing thats by default
[20:06] <maco> (this is why i should open up the google results)
[20:07] <maco> from http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-313498.html looks like you put it in .bashrc and then whatever you start from that shell will spit core dumps, so if you're ok with starting dasher from command line...
[20:08] <maco> hrmph. i thought there was a systemwide way to set it permanently... maybe that was with sudo but is now gone? *grumble*
[20:09] <charlie-tca> hm, maco, thanks
[20:09] <charlie-tca> that reminds to have the stacktrace added to the bug reports by apport
[20:09] <Pendulum> I always start dasher from command line as it's the only way to do direct input
[20:21] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I know you're probably doing the dinner and children to bed thing, but when you're around next I'm just curious about when you think you'll get the blog post up :)
[20:22] <AlanBell> I am on a train right now
[20:25] <UndiFineD> AlanBell: you should be in the train
[20:25] <UndiFineD> england != india
[20:31] <Pendulum> maco: I think I have set things up correctly. Where would I find the core dumps?
[20:32] <maco> Pendulum: in the dir from which you run dasher
[20:32] <maco> you can test by using kill with whatever is SIGABORT
[20:35] <Pendulum> ?
[20:42]  * AlanBell is now off a train
[20:42] <AlanBell> blog post should be soonish
[20:42] <AlanBell> I have real work to do
[20:42] <AlanBell> but the blog post is more tempting
[20:42] <AlanBell> and a tax return
[20:42] <AlanBell> blog post is *way* more tempting than that
[20:43] <Pendulum> AlanBell: so it will be up today or tomorrow?
[20:43] <AlanBell> I should think so, yes
[20:44] <Pendulum> (I just was poking to get a sense of what day it would be up, not saying "must be up now" ;-) )
[20:49] <Pendulum> I wonder if I could use my powerchair to go get the bin from the end of the drive...
[20:51] <Pendulum> I am tempted to try since the chances of my fucking a joint up going out to get it are high, but I need to bring it in before the snowplows start...
[20:54] <UndiFineD> Pendulum: no friendly neighbour you can call ?
[20:54] <Pendulum> nope
[20:54] <AlanBell> could the powerchair get stuck?
[20:54] <UndiFineD> :(
[20:54] <Pendulum> nah, there's not much on the ground yet, just enough that I'm worried that walking I'd slip and hurt something
[20:55] <Pendulum> I didn't even slip more than a couple inches yesterday and one of my knees went
[20:57] <Pendulum> okay, going to attempt whatever i attempt now before the snow gets any worse
[21:00] <AlanBell> Pendulum: smile and wave if you spot any other people out moving their bins
[21:04] <Pendulum> actually, that didn't go so badly
[21:06] <Pendulum> so answer is in fact "yes I could"
[21:21] <IdleOne> damn it Pendulum you had me worried you were going to hurt yourself
[21:21] <IdleOne> I'm glad you didn't :)
[21:24] <Pendulum> heh
[21:30] <maco> Pendulum: sorry my carpool as leaving
[21:30] <Pendulum> maco: s'ok
[21:30] <maco> Pendulum: so after you start a shell that has had the ulimit command run, you run dasher. then you can do  kill -6 PID   to abort it which will make a core file
[21:34] <Pendulum> it has not told me anything in my shell about there being a core file :-/
[21:36] <maco> hrmm if i wanna install dasher i have to go to *$
[21:37] <maco> 17MB will not download quickly on my usual connection
[21:37] <AlanBell> dasher is great
[21:37] <AlanBell> until your keyboard segfaults
[21:37] <Pendulum> hmm... so I ran ulimit -S -c unlimited (in the same terminal) in case I'd entered it wrong the first time
[21:38] <Pendulum> this time I when I hit enter after that (so had not started dasher), I got:
[21:38] <Pendulum> [1]+  Aborted                 (core dumped) dasher -a direct
[21:39] <Pendulum> so I'm not sure if that means that it's not done the core dump?
[21:42] <maco> hit ls
[21:42] <Pendulum> err.. I meant *now
[21:42] <Pendulum> faily hands are faily ;)
[21:43] <Pendulum> ls gives me something called core \o/
[21:44] <charlie-tca> I keep trying, sooner or later I will reproduce the segfaults with a stacktrace, here.
[21:44] <Pendulum> well I've segfaulted it at least once today so at some point I'll get another one
[21:44] <charlie-tca> yup
[21:45] <AlanBell> hi this is using dasher but for some odd reason it  isn't seeming to want to type capitals
[21:45] <charlie-tca> I guess I am too dumb to give up on it. It has to happen sooner or later, right?
[21:45] <Pendulum> AlanBell: in the right bottom corner there's a drop down menu
[21:46] <Pendulum> you can change your alphabet there
[21:46] <AlanBell> Thank you 
[21:46] <Pendulum> I recommend 'English with numerals and lots of punctuation'
[21:47] <AlanBell> segfault \o/
[21:47] <AlanBell> if you type carefully it kind of works
[21:48] <Pendulum> You get faster quickly
[21:48] <AlanBell> slam the mouse over to the right and type gibberish as fast as it will do it and it blows up
[21:48] <Pendulum> but mine doesn't always segfault that way. I can be going at a reasonable speed, but not too fast and it'll go :(
[21:51] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/558737/ backtrace
[21:53] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: does that help?
[21:54] <charlie-tca> missing most of the symbols, but I can attach it and see what they say
[21:55] <Pendulum> I'll see what I can get, too
[21:55] <Pendulum> I just got a core dump from it segfaulting on me
[21:56] <charlie-tca> Looks to me like the same trace as the gedit failure. 
[21:56] <charlie-tca> That's good. At least it gives us more information
[21:56] <maco> those function names look annoying
[21:56] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: should I upload this dump? Or what should I do with it? (it's currently telling me I don't have the right program to open the file)
[21:57] <maco> "one step further"? what is *that* supposed to tell whoever reads the code?
[21:57] <maco> Pendulum: do you have gdb?
[21:57] <charlie-tca> maco: how do we use the coredump now/
[21:58] <maco> gdb -c core
[21:58] <AlanBell> "gdb dasher core"
[21:58] <AlanBell> then bt
[21:58] <maco> or that
[21:58] <maco> (im skimming manpage)
[21:59] <Pendulum> charlie-tca: this is what I got in the dump http://paste.ubuntu.com/558744/
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I will process it
[22:05] <AlanBell> here is DasherModel.cpp which seems to be where it is crashing http://paste.ubuntu.com/558747/
[22:07] <AlanBell> the comments on line 542 and 544 point to a certain lack of confidence in that area
[22:08] <Pendulum> yeah
[22:11] <AlanBell> Pendulum: can you type "bt" at the (gdb) prompt
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Will it give a usable trace without the debug symbols installed?
[22:12] <AlanBell> that is what I did
[22:12] <AlanBell> and Pendulum crashed differently
[22:13] <Pendulum> http://paste.ubuntu.com/558750/
[22:13] <AlanBell> I crashed in RecursiveOutput, Pendulum crashed in HandleOutput
[22:27] <maco> charlie-tca: dont think so
[22:28] <charlie-tca> I will run it on my test install with all the -dbgsym packages installed when I get this other stuff done
[22:29] <maco> ok, recursiveoutput is itty bitty
[22:29] <maco> and given its name, im guessing there's just a wrong end-condition for a loop
[22:30] <maco> as thats whats usually wrong with recursion
[22:37] <maco> AlanBell: can you set a breakpoint on RecursiveOutput running with your core file?
[22:39] <maco> AlanBell: then use "step" and "next" to go line by line til the crash and pastebin that output?
[22:40] <maco> (may want to | tee dasher-dbg)
[22:43] <AlanBell> maco: i have run out of knowledge :) how do I do that?
[22:45] <maco> load up the core file and type "break RecursiveOutput" (i think...it might need the something:: bit before it, but...we'll find out) then hit enter, then "continue", and it should stop when it first encounters RecursiveOutput, then "step" then "next" back and forth til it crashes. may want to do continue over and over for one run-through to see how many times it hits that function before crashing so you can continue enough times before stepping
[22:45] <maco>  on a second run
[22:45] <maco> (i have The Art of Debugging sitting on the table in front of me because im a gdb noob too)
[22:50] <maco> i figured i had no reason to play with gdb til i figured out how to read a stack trace in something other than Java :P
[22:50] <maco> and then never got around to learning gdb
[22:57] <AlanBell> well that was a fail
[22:57] <AlanBell> managed to crash unity
[22:58] <AlanBell> or mutter
[22:59] <JanC> mutter?
[22:59] <AlanBell> I will have another play with that tomorrow
[22:59] <AlanBell> JanC: old unity
[23:00] <JanC> I've never been able to run unity + mutter for more than 30 minutes without crashing...  ;)
[23:01] <AlanBell> I have been running it for months, I am trying to like it
[23:03] <AlanBell> nsfw but somewhat on-topic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv3tadz5Q3o
[23:03] <JanC> unity in natty is much more likeable
[23:04] <JanC> doesn't crash & about 100× faster
[23:07] <charlie-tca> apparently, I did something wrong then. I couldn't get it to work in natty
[23:08] <Pendulum> AlanBell: I want to know where that was!