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MootBotMeeting started at 09:01. The chair is NCommander.15:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:01
* rsalveti waves15:02
* NCommander waves15:02
NCommanderwho's here this morning?15:02
* GrueMaster is not.15:02
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
NCommanderGrueMaster: I know the feeling15:03
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2011012715:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2011012715:04
NCommander[topic] Action Items from last meeting15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Action Items from last meeting15:04
NCommander[topic] NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to talk to the release team on which team to track w.r.t. to bugs (co)15:04
NCommander[topic] Standing Items15:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Standing Items15:05
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html15:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html15:05
NCommander[link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html15:05
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-2.html15:05
NCommanderBurndown charts are looking better and are close to the trendline15:06
* davidm is finally back hom15:06
NCommandermorning davidm15:07
* NCommander pokes everyone else15:07
NCommanderno other comments on burndown charts?15:07
ograWi look okayish15:07
ograi just closed my last one15:07
NCommanderogra: yay :-)15:07
ograNCommander, you are actively working on yours i guess :)15:08
NCommanderogra: I hit a wall (more on that later)15:08
NCommanderanyone else for comments?15:08
ogradid you talk to doko/linaro ?15:08
ograrsalveti, are you likely to do all these package tests before A" ?15:08
rsalvetiogra: for qt, probably not, but I'm moving to the others now15:09
rsalvetilot easier15:09
NCommanderogra: not yet. I was waiting on confirmation on a maverick Qt 4.7.1 before I raise the 'its a compielr issue' alarm, but that built ICEd sometime in the middle of the night15:09
ograand what about RAOFs items ?15:09
rsalvetifor qt I need to rebuild all the packages that uses the gles backend15:09
rsalvetito see if it's going to break or not15:09
rsalvetiand are all huge (kde ones)15:09
rsalvetiso takes time15:09
rsalvetiogra: just moved to alpha 315:09
rsalvetinot important for now15:09
ograGrueMaster, what about your checkbox tests ?15:10
ogramove or finish this week ?15:10
GrueMasterWill bump today.15:10
ograseems we look really good for A2 then15:10
* NCommander reset his to INPROGRESS15:11
NCommanderI keep forgetting we have that state15:11
ograjanimo_, if you need help with debian-cd NCommander and i have access to the builer machine15:11
GrueMasterogra: Bumped to A3.15:11
ograthough i must admit i'm not fully in the code since the crontab cleanup15:11
ogravalidity checking for flavours changed15:12
janimo_ogra, thanks, I will probably ask for help in various forms15:12
janimo_but I need to figure out how to properly test locally15:12
ograNCommander is probably deeper in the current code, but he will be busy with the QT issue15:12
ograNCommander, move ?15:13
NCommander[topic] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html15:13
MootBotNew Topic:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-arm-assigned-bug-tasks.html15:13
rsalvetiI have 2 that are already fixed released15:14
* NCommander needs to fix that link15:14
GrueMasterI'll be working on a new list tomorrow F2F with bmurry.15:14
ograNCommander, only if we have a new list15:14
NCommanderlikewise-open is an annoying one that reopened15:14
NCommanderWish it would stay closed for a cycle15:14
ogra(which is what GrueMaster refers to i think)15:14
NCommanderwill track that after Qt is fixed15:14
ograNCommander, unassign :)15:15
ograits desktop or server team15:15
ograyou shouldnt be assigned to it15:15
rsalvetiogra: any news about the qt package update?15:15
rsalvetito check the neon bug15:15
NCommanderogra: I've always been assigned to this one since its a porting bug15:15
ograrsalveti, Riddell just told me it should be there any minute (two days ago)15:15
Riddellupstream are promising it soon but won't say any more15:16
ograso i guess someone is working on it atm15:16
rsalvetihm, ok15:16
ograNCommander, right, and you provided a patch, thats enough, package maintenance is supposed to be done by either desktop or server15:16
ograNCommander, find out which of the teams has the package and assign to the team15:17
NCommanderwill reassign15:17
NCommanderthat I do know15:17
ograi think its desktop15:17
ograby say of mdz15:17
ogra(i remember a discussion when he lead the server team)15:17
ograbut ask pitti or robbiew15:17
rsalvetiogra: I think you still have the old alsa-utils bug15:18
rsalvetibut it's fix released15:18
rsalvetiand it shouldn't15:18
ograi do :(15:18
ograits fix released for the kernel part15:18
ograwe should probably just open a new one for alsa-utils15:18
rsalvetiogra: hm, so we should open it or repen for the package15:18
ograsince that old bug got a lot of confusion in it15:19
rsalvetiat least we're able to track it then15:19
ograre-open then15:19
rsalvetijanimo_: any news on the banshee bug?15:19
* ogra saw some testing of the new upstream15:19
ograthat didnt look good15:20
rsalvetiyeah, I remember something similar15:20
NCommanderThe underlying root cause is our mono stack is still foobar'ed. Someone needs to sitdown, and run the test suite failures15:20
rsalvetiNCommander: you said you could do that in the past :P15:21
rsalvetias you seems to like fixing mono issues15:21
NCommanderrsalveti: it keeps getting pre-empted by other things.15:21
NCommanderalso, like is the wrong word :-P15:21
ograunity-2d vs QT is more important atm15:21
robbiewogra: FYI, while I believe desktop is the new owner of likewise-open...zul has resolved the issue and is uploading now15:21
ograyeah, like is the wrong word15:21
ograshould have been LOVE :)15:21
ograNCommander, see, one item less on your plate ^^^15:22
NCommanderogra: don't make me hit you15:22
janimo_rsalveti, it happensa with 1.9.2 too15:22
NCommanderrobbiew: thanks for the confirmation15:22
janimo_I am almost sure it is a mono bug not banshee15:22
rsalvetiweee :-)15:22
janimo_as the backtraces have  wildly different contents sometimes15:23
janimo_within CIL, SIGILLS, etc15:23
rsalvetimust be fun to debug mono15:23
ograthats just to entertain the debugger ;)15:23
NCommanderjanimo_: if you want to take a stab at it, and don't value your sanity, get me off meeting and we'll step through as far as I got15:23
ograthey add random messages ;)15:23
janimo_rsalveti, indeed, I do not yet know how to debug mono C#/C combination with gdb15:23
janimo_but I guess it's something I'll find out :)15:23
ograi guess a talk with NCommander would help15:23
NCommanderjanimo_: I'm pretty sure the issue itself is in the C code with the trampoleans, etc.15:23
ograhe made some progress in the past15:24
janimo_NCommander, ok15:24
NCommander[topic] Unity 2D Status15:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Unity 2D Status15:24
ogralooks goood15:24
NCommanderBroken on ARM :-/15:24
ograMIRs filed15:24
NCommanderogra: thanks for handling that15:24
NCommanderI'm running down the natty regresison15:24
ograbroken on arm, but not unity-2d's fault15:24
NCommanderogra: indeed, but its a bit of a wall banger15:24
ograi hope it doesnt block the MIrs15:24
NCommanderI've got a dialog open w/ linaro on it ATM, but probably going to need to run some more test builds of Qt15:25
GrueMasterShouldn't.  It works on x86.15:25
ograand i also hope the new QT might gain us something15:25
ograbut that might be a moot hope15:25
NCommanderespecially if it stoolchain15:25
ograGrueMaster, a MIR requires that it builds and runs on all supported arches15:25
rsalvetiogra: I was thinking that the lack of proper translation would be worse for blocking mir than the seg fault issue15:25
ograthe translation has a milestoned upstream bug15:26
rsalvetias it's going to be used as the default ui for arm15:26
ograshould be fixed before natty15:26
ogra(botzh bugs are mentioned in the MIR)15:26
rsalvetiyup, saw that15:27
ograthere goes your alter ego ;)15:27
janimo_NCommander, I can also look into QT debugging. I am just fresh out of a LibO debugging spree, so large C++ codebases failing in weird ways on arm no longer scare me as much as they used to15:27
ograit would be good to have tracked it down before A215:27
NCommanderjanimo_: you should look at the current dialog in #linaro15:27
* janimo_ just found the cause of OO/Libo FTBFS15:27
janimo_NCommander, ok15:27
ograsince i would like to switch the images to unity-2d15:28
NCommanderjanimo_: isn't debugging OOo fun :-)15:28
NCommanderogra: I think realistically, we're looking at A3 for that15:28
ograi guess libO makes it easier already15:28
ograNCommander, well, wer should try at least15:28
ograwe still have a week15:28
NCommanderogra: true, but I rather us cross the finish line with a well tested stack then push it into a2 at the very last possible moment15:29
ograNCommander, if there are chances it works i'm fine getting images with untested stack15:30
janimo_NCommander, OTOH the sooner we push out thew more testers15:30
ograthats what i mean15:30
davidmI agree with ogra and janimo_15:30
ograbut there needs to be at least a chance15:30
ograi wont switch if its clearly broken indeed15:30
ograif its toolchain it would also help to have it identified before the new QT hits the archive15:31
ograto prevent rebuilds15:31
ograanyway, thats all from my side wrt unity-2d15:31
* NCommander has nothing additional to add15:32
NCommanderone thing15:33
NCommanderI just got pointed at Qt's unit tests15:33
NCommanderWill try and run with them after the meeting to confirm/deny a hosed Qt15:33
NCommander(or more specifically, if I'm looking at a regression due to changed assembly)15:33
ograthe earlier we identify the better15:33
ogramove ?15:34
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney)15:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney)15:34
rsalvetiNCommander: my name15:34
ograand rsalveti :)15:34
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)15:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)15:34
NCommanderahem :-)15:34
rsalvetifor omap 3 we just got an upload for a 38 based kernel15:35
ogrado we know where we stand wrt 2.6.38 on omap4 ?15:35
ograand who finally does it15:35
rsalvetiapw pointed the link to the already built deb, will give it a try on xm now15:35
davidmogra, TI has just started working on it15:35
rsalvetiogra: for omap 4 that is still one open question15:35
ograits nearly feb.15:35
ograwould be good to have something soon15:35
davidmand Linaro has just hired a gent to help15:35
rsalvetiat least at the rally they said they were building the linaro landing team to work on that15:36
ograah, good15:36
rsalvetior at least to help on that15:36
rsalvetiso work is probably being made15:36
davidmNew Linaro gent is Andy Green15:36
ograas long as we can get binaries before A3 i'm happy15:36
davidmStarted work this week15:36
ograi hope they dont build linaro packages but usable ubuntu packages15:36
rsalveticurrent ti status for the current kernel tree (35 based) is 4 releases ahead of us15:36
rsalvetimostly to make it work on ES2.215:37
ogra(with security and SRU support)15:37
rsalvetibut sebjan said it's still not stable, so not ready for merge15:37
rsalvetiogra: hm, don't know if we'll get it before A315:37
ogradavidm, do you know anything about that ?15:37
ogra(SRU and security ... and also ubuntu-kernel compliance)15:37
rsalveticurrent upstream kind of work, but missing display drivers and a lot of other stuff useful for desktop15:37
ograi'm a tad scared that they will only build linaro kernels15:38
rsalvetiI'm not that sure15:38
davidmOMAP 4, I think it will be iffy to have it by A3 but I have some hope15:38
davidmWe will get an Ubuntu kernel from TI/Linaro15:38
rsalvetifor Maverick, we got a new update for the main kernel15:39
rsalveticlosing some quite old SRUs15:39
rsalvetilike bug 68876515:39
rsalvetiand others15:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 688765 in linux (Ubuntu Maverick) "Can't init uart3 (no clocks available) at Beagleboard-xM" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/68876515:39
rsalvetiyeah, sru is taking quite some time15:39
rsalvetiguess that's most of it15:40
ograwell, to keep tobin busy :)15:40
rsalvetibrian is still working on the mem instability issue15:40
rsalvetibut no other news15:40
ogramove ?15:40
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)15:41
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)15:41
GrueMasterTesting daily unity-2d builds on maverick due to the QT natty issue.15:41
GrueMasterTesting other apps using the une-efl on natty.15:42
GrueMasterOther than that, waiting on replacement XM (shipping).15:42
ograimages work fine ?15:43
ograi also think we can start ignoring une-efl bugs15:43
GrueMasterAfter the latest jasper-initramfs fix, so far so good.  Testing today's now to see if the une-efl session was fixed.15:43
GrueMasterI'm only using it until unity-2d is usable on natty.15:44
ograright, indeed file bugs as you see them15:44
ograi just mean fixing15:44
ograisnt worth to put team energy into that15:44
ograbetter focus on getting unity-2d fixed15:44
GrueMasterNot much I can do there.  I'm available to run tests though.  :P15:45
rsalvetibut that was the only main issue we had15:45
rsalvetiand until having something with unity-2d, was good to fix15:45
ograune-efl should be handled by community (speak up if you are community and intrested in taking it over :) )15:45
* ogra hopes he made emmet happy with that ;)15:46
ogramove ?15:46
GrueMasterUntil unity-2d is on the image, some support for une-efl needs to remain.15:46
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander)15:46
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander)15:46
rsalvetiand janimo_15:46
NCommander<- *see previous Unity 2D discussion*15:46
ograyou do that alone now ?15:46
NCommanderneed to update the dman termplate15:47
ograso janimo_ is free for other stuff15:47
NCommander[topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:47
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)15:47
NCommanderogra: janimo_ is free, i want janimo :-)15:47
* NCommander runs15:47
ograi want both of them15:47
ografour hands can work more than two ;)15:47
ograany status ?15:48
janimo_some progress on haskell stuff15:48
janimo_but lately takeon over by others15:48
ograi saw a ton of syncs/uploads15:48
janimo_Laney and other haskelly people15:48
janimo_LibO fixed wil hopefuly be in 3.3.115:48
Laneyshould be fine15:49
ograLaney, great work15:49
janimo_some NEW pending to unlock some other package to be asble to build darcs15:49
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
janimo_and then the unavoidable failures because of swapping on the builders15:49
janimo_deferred until something with more than 512M is available15:49
ograisnt that just timeouts ?15:50
Laneyjust ordering and stuff, you can follow on http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/haskell-installability/armel.png15:50
ograi thought lamont has a whitelist for that15:50
janimo_ogra, yes, but I am not sure what the timeout is supposed to be if we don;t know how much it is swapping15:50
janimo_timeout was raised to 300 min from 15015:50
janimo_but a few packages are still taking longer15:51
ograwell, just double them with every build until you find a working solution15:51
Laneythanks for caring about universe stuff btw :-)15:51
ograwe need them buolt by release15:51
ograand its not clear when we get pandas15:51
janimo_ogra, I hope by releae we get at least one bettee build server15:51
janimo_even one [anda would help a lot15:51
ograand even then the cluster isnt built yet15:51
lamontthere's the other issue that when the machine goes through the swapstorm, launchpad sometimes decides that it's gone away and throws in the towel and goes to the next builder so it can timeout in several hours15:52
* lamont is working on those timeouts too15:52
ograwell, as soon as we get pandas they will go to davidm (i hope) and not to the DC15:52
janimo_ogra, you have an extra panda, you should hook it in the buildds ;)15:52
ograi already sent my spare panda to lamont :P15:53
ograbut that was a pre-release and didnt work15:53
lamontah.  grumichama15:53
ogranot sure that was ever worked around15:53
lamontif we haven't already, we can send that one back if you want it15:53
ograprobably to davidm15:54
ograi dont want it collecting dust here15:54
GrueMasterI think TI wanted the pre-2.0 8L boards back.15:54
ograthen david is the best bet to drop it off there15:55
ograanyway, offtopic15:55
rsalvetiand we're running out of time15:55
lamontjanimo_: meanwhile, pester me later today and I'll bump the sbuild timeout before the next round of mass-giveback15:55
janimo_lamont, ok15:56
ograNCommander, stop watching #linaro !15:56
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:56
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)15:56
* janimo_ set up a timer task titled 'pester lamont'15:56
ograthey are there ;)15:56
NCommanderogra: that was a case of bad lad15:56
ograx-loader was moved in the scripts to the new packages15:57
ograas soon as i have confirmation they actually ended up on the images we can remove the old packages15:57
rsalvetiyup, doing that now15:57
ograbeyond that we had a mis-build due to archive skew two days ago15:58
ograall other images up to today have built fine15:58
ogramove ... unless there are questions15:58
ograNCommander, HURRY UP !!15:58
ograNCommander, 2 MINS15:59
ogramy caps key freaks out15:59
rsalvetiGrueMaster: give him a hard ping15:59
ograwith a hammer15:59
NCommander[topic] AOB15:59
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB15:59
ogranothing here15:59
* NCommander has nothing16:00
* NCommander needs to reboot badly16:00
NCommanderclosing meeting in16:00
ograNCommander, close ?16:00
GrueMasterActually, try not to reboot badly.  Makes your system slow down.16:00
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:00.16:00
ogratiming \o/16:00
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-lunch
=== bjf is now known as bjf[afk]
charlie-tcaare we all here?19:02
* MichealH is hoping to vote on the xubuntu leader19:03
* pleia2 waves19:03
MichealHMaybe nominate myself?19:03
knome o_19:03
knome |/19:03
micahgMichealH: there was only one nomination19:03
micahgthis is more of a coronation vote :)19:03
charlie-tcaformalize the thing19:03
MichealHcharlie-tca: Can I nominate myself?19:03
MootBotMeeting started at 13:03. The chair is charlie-tca.19:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:03
knomeMichealH, not any more.19:04
charlie-tcaThe full meeting agenda is available for your viewing at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings19:04
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Old business19:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Old business19:05
charlie-tcaAs far as I recall, there isn't any?19:05
pleia2I think you're right19:06
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Team updates - Team Leads19:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Team updates - Team Leads19:06
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Packaging & Development19:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Packaging & Development19:06
charlie-tcamr_pouit: floor's yours19:06
mr_pouitok, last week: uploaded Xfce 4.819:07
mr_pouitthis week, the focus has been on xubuntu-default-settings and xubuntu-artwork19:07
charlie-tcaWe like that!19:07
beardygnomehi all, have i missed much?19:07
charlie-tcajust starting19:07
charlie-tcaI have a question, mr_pouit19:08
charlie-tcaAre we going to try to backport xfce4.8 to maverick and lucid?19:10
charlie-tcaor at least get a PPA for them?19:10
mr_pouitpossible, micahg spoke about that a few meetings ago19:11
charlie-tcaGot a lot of users asking19:11
mr_pouitI would rather wait for the first bugfix releases though19:11
* micahg is willing to help19:11
charlie-tcaOkay, that's fine then.19:12
charlie-tcaAt least we will have an answer19:12
charlie-tcaThank you, mr_pouit. Are there any questions?19:12
knomemr_pouit, will xfce 4.8 be backported to dapper?19:13
mr_pouiteww, I don't think so :P19:13
micahgdapper is EOL in 5 months19:13
knomedamn! have to update then...19:13
charlie-tcaDapper is EOL in June for servers. It is already EOL fro desktops19:13
micahgfor real this time :P19:13
charlie-tcaGood question, knome. Thanks for asking that one.19:14
micahgcharlie-tca: yes, but PPA uploads are still accepted for it :)19:14
knomecharlie-tca, you're welcome.19:14
charlie-tcaAnything else for development?19:14
mr_pouitno :)19:14
knomewhat about packages19:14
charlie-tca[TOPIC] [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing19:14
MootBotNew Topic:  [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing19:15
knomeis there any consensus/work made towards new default applications?19:15
charlie-tcanot yet19:15
charlie-tcaother than we are keeping Thunderbird19:15
knomeis there any work PLANNED to compare new default applications?19:15
charlie-tcathat is on the agenda, though19:15
knomewhen is the "deadline"?19:15
charlie-tcamr_pouit: when do we have to decide?19:16
charlie-tcaknome: as far as I know, no one has started comparisons19:16
knomewhen is the last day to submit those comparisons, so we have time to test and vote?19:17
micahgAfter Feb 24, a release exception will be needed19:17
knomethe day to submit comparisons should be way before19:18
Sysi(/me joins in) are there any plans for what apps to change/add/remove?19:18
knomeSysi, have you read the email list?19:18
charlie-tcaLet's get the comparisons in by the next meeting, then?19:18
charlie-tcaThat gives a week or two to discuss them and vote19:18
Sysiknome: not, url?19:18
pleia2Sysi: defaults thread is here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-January/thread.html#764019:18
knomeSysi, or, at http://lmgtfy.com/?q=xubuntu-devel+archives19:19
charlie-tca[IDEA] Have all comparisons in for default applications selection by February 319:19
MootBotIDEA received:  Have all comparisons in for default applications selection by February 319:19
Sysiknome: i was going for that19:20
charlie-tcaAs for testing, we have Alpha2 coming out next thursday19:21
charlie-tcaWe need all the help we can get testing the images.19:21
charlie-tcaanything else on the applications, bugs, testing?19:22
charlie-tcaGo ahead, micahg19:22
micahgdoes 10.04.2 testing count?19:22
micahgthunderbird-locales needs testing in lucid-proposed19:23
charlie-tca[ACTION] thunderbird-locales needs testing in lucid-proposed19:23
MootBotACTION received:  thunderbird-locales needs testing in lucid-proposed19:23
micahgWe have 3 new translations and updates for many more19:23
charlie-tcaDo you have to know the languages to test it?19:23
micahgBug #705028, New translations for Gaelic, Galician, and Serbian19:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 705028 in thunderbird-locales (Ubuntu Natty) "Update Thunderbird translations to 3.1.7" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/70502819:24
micahgThey should be in natty alpha 2 as well, but no testing per se is needed there19:24
charlie-tcaI tested the lucid-proposed docs this week. They are done for 10.04.2!19:25
micahgthanks charlie-tca19:25
charlie-tcaThanks to Book_Em_Dano for doing them19:25
micahgcharlie-tca also found a new bug (not a regression) introduced in the docs, but that will be addressed after 10.04.2 is released19:26
charlie-tcaThanks, micahg, for bringing up the thunderbird stuff. It will be easier to get things done knowing it needs it19:26
charlie-tcaOkay, let's keep moving19:27
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Website & Marketing19:27
MootBotNew Topic:  Website & Marketing19:27
charlie-tcaWe still need a marketing director19:27
charlie-tcaand it seems like a difficult job to lead, too19:27
charlie-tcapleia2: anything on the website update?19:28
micahgcharlie-tca: I assume this is a volunteer position?19:28
charlie-tcaall of our stuff is19:28
knomeexcept project lead? :P19:29
charlie-tcaand no, you don't get paid to put in a lot of time trying to market Xubuntu19:29
charlie-tcaproject lead is voluntary too, isn't it?19:29
knomebut it's not like you just step up and the position is yours, right?19:29
charlie-tcaneither are the rest19:29
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Artwork19:30
MootBotNew Topic:  Artwork19:30
charlie-tcaHm, the only update I have on this is that greybird is now in the daily images19:30
knomealso, about marketing xubuntu: in the last years, i have started to think the best way to "market" xubuntu is to produce high quality artwork and good looks. that makes people want to try xubuntu. saying xubuntu is for low-end pc's, or for those who want the most of their systems (now that everybody has 4GB of ram) is pretty much +-019:30
charlie-tcaany one have anything?19:30
charlie-tcaA valid point, knome19:31
knomea good set of default applications as well as a "traditional" DE will make xubuntu stand out19:31
charlie-tcaWe have been trying to change the perception that Xubuntu is only for old and slow systems19:31
knomeespecially now when gnome is getting shells and kde419:31
charlie-tcabut it still requires a certain amount of marketing, including blogs, good reviews, user reports, posters, etc.19:32
Sysiwe have a chance now because xgce 4.8 is great, unity, gnome shell and kde4 are a bit weird :P19:32
knomeagreed about blogs, good reviews and user reports, but really, they should be by users, not the developer community all the time19:33
knomeso we can't really affect that19:33
knomewhat comes to posters... i've never seen one19:33
vinnlWe could encourage users to blog and spread the word19:33
charlie-tcaGreat idea, how?19:33
Sysido we have any kind of idea about loco marketing?19:33
knomeyes, the 'marketing' should focus on users bring involved and by offering them low-hanging fruits19:33
vinnlProvide them with a platform to blog on, perhaps19:34
knomeas many of the other areas of development too19:34
knomethere was this idea to put up a developer blog on xubuntu.org19:34
charlie-tcathat isn't for users, though19:35
Sysii think people like more "their level" kind of marketing19:35
vinnlOn the other hand, something like this can easily turn into something with a lot of "Xubuntu doesn't keep this and this light-weight enough" of "Xubuntu doesn't include this or that application darnit"19:35
vinnlDeveloper blogs also cost a lot of time19:35
knomethere already is developer blogs19:35
knomethe idea then was to aggregate19:35
charlie-tcacorrect. that is why it takes a person to lead the marketing efforts and keep it going in a direction that benefits Xubuntu.19:36
knomebut since cody thought xubuntu.org is only for "official" news and stories, that never came to be19:36
charlie-tcaagain, a developer blog on xubuntu.org is not for the users19:36
Sysimy point is that if we can't create apple-style media circus we should maybe focus on lower level19:36
knomeyes, but right now the news/blog on xubuntu.org is "alpha1 released!" "alpha2 released!" "beta is here!" "10.10 is here!"19:37
Sysii think one eager person in loco can make much19:37
charlie-tcayes, they could.19:37
charlie-tcasomeone want to push this to the devel ML for us? It helps to keep track of the discussion if it is threaded and readable19:38
vinnlI'm going to go now, though19:38
vinnlGood luck with the vote charlie-tca :)19:38
charlie-tcavinnl: need a news next week19:38
vinnlWhat day?19:38
charlie-tcashould be out thursday19:39
knomei vote a wiki page for the website discussion19:39
vinnlalpha 2?19:39
charlie-tcayes, alpha219:39
knomeeasier to follow the different options etc.19:39
vinnlNoted :)19:39
knome(and opinions as well)19:39
charlie-tcagreat, knome. Want to take the action item for it?19:39
knomesorry, nope :)19:39
vinnlOK, bye then, good luck with the meeting19:40
knomebeing busy with other things so i don't think that would make much sense for me to work on it19:40
knomeSysi, maybe you could set the wikipage up19:40
charlie-tcaanyone else want to take this one?19:40
knomeSysi, i can offer help when i'm available19:41
Sysiknome: i'm busy for couple of weeks, end of high school19:41
charlie-tcaOkay, that will get tabled for now, then.19:42
knomelet's postpone this to the next meeting then (old business) and see again then19:42
charlie-tcaWe need to keep moving19:42
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.219:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Updates for Xubuntu 10.04.219:42
charlie-tcaWe will be testing the images for 10.04.2 February 1419:43
charlie-tcaIs there anything else for this?19:43
knome(a proposal for the agenda: let's move the PL vote as the next item so everybody having to leave @20UTC can join the vote)19:44
charlie-tcaWe are ending at 20:00 UTC anyway. so let us get this doen19:44
knomecharlie-tca, if not, and just to be sure.. :)19:44
micahgok, just wanted to mention that we should have Firefox 3.6.14 and Thunderbird 3.1.8 in 10.04.219:44
micahgs/should/most likely19:45
charlie-tcaWe are gaining... :-)19:45
charlie-tcaThanks, micahg19:45
charlie-tcaany other news/business on 10.04.219:46
=== Ursinha-lunch is now known as Ursinha
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Announcements19:46
MootBotNew Topic:  Announcements19:46
charlie-tcaI have none this week.19:47
knomeyou missed two items on the agenda19:47
charlie-tcaknome: the more you interrupt, the less we get done19:47
knomebut i think panel launchers are not worth to discuss before we've decided the default apps19:47
knomecharlie-tca, afaik, you don't have to stop typing while i type :P19:48
charlie-tcalet me know when you are ready to continue now19:48
knomego on19:48
charlie-tca[TOPIC] Governance structure19:48
MootBotNew Topic:  Governance structure19:48
charlie-tca[TOPIC] vote for Project Lead19:48
MootBotNew Topic:  vote for Project Lead19:48
charlie-tcaWe have a single nomination after trying for quite a while to make something definite happen with the Xubuntu Project Lead19:49
charlie-tcaThe nomination is myself, as approved by the Community Council.19:49
charlie-tcaAs previously explained in emails to the Xubuntu development and users mailing lists, we will vote to confirm this nomination and finalize the Project Lead.19:50
charlie-tcapleia2: anything to add, as a Community Council member?19:50
charlie-tcapleia2: also, any objections received?19:51
pleia2nope, just one +1 from vinnl who couldn't make it to the meeting19:51
=== JackyAlcine-AFK is now known as JackyAlcine
charlie-tcaNot having a firm method of selecting the project lead, we are going to allow anyone interested in Xubuntu vote at this time.19:52
charlie-tca[VOTE] Please vote for Charlie Kravetz as the Xubuntu Project Lead19:52
MootBotPlease vote on:  Please vote for Charlie Kravetz as the Xubuntu Project Lead.19:52
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot19:52
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting19:52
knomepleia2, did you notice the mail by steve dodies?19:52
MootBot+1 received from pleia2. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 119:53
MootBot+1 received from micahg. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 219:53
pleia2knome: yeah, it was sent to the list (not sure how voting for someone who didn't put their name forward works)19:53
pleia2he didn't send an objection though19:53
knomecan i have a PM?19:53
charlie-tcaI did respond to his email, explaining that mr_pouit turned the position down.19:54
pleia2ok, thanks charlie-tca19:54
MootBot+1 received from beardygnome. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 319:54
MootBotAbstention received from charlie-tca. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 319:54
micahgcharlie-tca: very noble ;)19:54
MootBotPrivate abstention received. 3 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Count is now 319:55
charlie-tcamicahg: thought I should do that, just for the official count.19:56
charlie-tcaAre there any other persons wish to vote, please do so now19:57
pleia2ok, we'll count it as a private -1 (it's not knome)19:57
pleia2err, sorry, we got one -119:58
* pleia2 typing fail today19:58
charlie-tcathat's okay. That makes it Count now 219:58
* pleia2 nods19:58
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 2 abstained. Total: 319:58
knomepleia2, the most beautiful of them all today19:58
charlie-tcaOfficial total is 2, a carry, considering the number of participants, isn't it, pleia2 ?19:59
charlie-tcaI will then be the official Xubuntu Project Lead, and I leave off the interim now.19:59
charlie-tcaThank you all for participating19:59
knomethanks and congratulations20:00
knomei have to leave now20:00
charlie-tcaand, we are out of time20:00
knomesee you all later20:00
beardygnomewell done charlie-tca20:00
charlie-tcathank you, beardygnome20:00
charlie-tcaIs there any other business to be discussed that won't wait?20:01
beardygnomecharlie-tca: you deserve it after all your hard work over the past months20:01
* micahg is surprised so few people voted20:01
charlie-tcaI just try to do my own little bit to help out20:01
charlie-tcaMe, too, micahg20:02
charlie-tcabut that is the way it is...20:02
charlie-tcaThank you all for attending the meeting, we will meet again next Thursday, 19:00 UTC20:02
Sysi(you need to know kinda much about project and people to vote)20:03
beardygnomecharlie-tca: i'm not sure that last command worked20:03
evilvishcharlie-tca: its #endmeeting20:04
beardygnomedoes it need to be in caps?20:04
charlie-tcawell, third times a charm, right20:04
micahgthanks charlie-tca and congratulations20:04
MootBotMeeting finished at 14:04.20:04
charlie-tcathanks, micahg20:04
evilvishcharlie-tca: congrats ! :)20:04
charlie-tcaThanks, evilvish20:04
=== bjf[afk] is now known as bjf
MichealHcharlie-tca, Congrats20:15
charlie-tcaThank you , MichealH20:16
charlie-tcayou didn't vote?20:16
charlie-tcasorry, we been trying for 6 months to get the nominations approved and then get a vote doen.20:17
pleia2yeah, and since nominations go through the CC they can't exactly be added at last minute ;)20:17
quantumbitI approve20:18
=== noy_ is now known as noy
=== JackyAlcine is now known as JackyAlcine-AFK
=== JackyAlcine-AFK is now known as JackyAlcine
=== noy_ is now known as noy

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