gpc» » »00:41
rwwdear lord richthegeek is not good at the concept of "stop"00:42
rww(and yes, that appears to have been a significant factor last time around too)00:42
Pici(I had a feeling)00:43
macoPici: do i banforward avenge now?01:24
Picimaco: I don't know what that was01:24
rwwit was unamerican activities.01:49
gpcwish the loco channels were all +F01:54
bazhangnaming debian after soap products?01:55
gpcDebian Snuggles01:55
gpcDebian Tide w/Bleach01:56
bazhangdebain wretch01:56
Jordan_UDid anyone else just see kolo able to talk after being quieted in #ubuntu?01:57
bazhangpreceded it by a few nanoseconds01:57
Jordan_UI wonder why it appeared so in my client.01:57
Jordan_ULag in my connection would explain why my +q happened so late after I actually /aq'd, but doesn't quite explain why messages from kolo came after the message that he'd been quieted.02:01
bazhangI saw none, just one letter somewhat nearby02:01
gpcbest to not dwell on such things02:01
gpcwill only drive you crazy02:02
rwwlag between servers, not lag between your client and the server02:02
gpcsee what it has done to rww02:02
gpche actually knows the reason02:02
Jordan_U"If it wasn't for my horse I never would have made it through that year in college"02:03
macohow long do you boil udon?02:03
gpcudon boil it02:03
gpcwhat is udon? /me googles02:03
rww@lart gpc02:03
* gpc forces me to use /me on me02:03
macogpc: noodles02:04
gpctill they are done, I would assume much like pasta02:04
macolooking for a ballpark though...02:05
rwwudone **02:05
gpcif they are fresh (not frozen or dry) not for very long 1-2 minutes02:05
rwwyou cook pasta for 2 minutes?!02:05
bazhangif that02:05
gpcfresh pasta yes02:05
gpcif the water is at a rolling boil02:05
gpcroiling lol02:05
macothese are dry02:06
bazhang'gan mien'02:06
gpcmaco 5-7 minutes ball park02:06
macostopped at the korean market on "get stuff to stock brand new apartment" the day i moved in02:06
macogpc: ok thanks02:06
macoits been like...6mo since i last made udon02:06
rwwoh, not dry. huh.02:06
gpcbut soon as they look done, try one and you will know02:06
macoi know soba is 5 minutes02:06
* persia tends to soak it in boiled (not boiling) water for 3 minutes02:07
macoapparently putting the bullion cube in after the water boils makes it sputter02:09
macoi wont be doing that again...02:09
rwwThis conversation is confusing me. I'm going back to my harry potter fanfiction.02:09
macohuh. why have i never bought miso paste? this doesnt make sense.02:09
gpcwell look at that, roiling.02:10
* gpc learned me something new today.02:10
bazhangyou doubted?02:10
gpcI didn't02:11
gpcI needed explaining02:11
rwwI keep trying to read gpc as "General Protection F... meh".02:11
* persia idly wonders if it makes sense to have a special channel to discuss debian naming conventions, japanese cooking, and people's nicknames02:12
rwwif only there were an offtopic channel for the Ubuntu namespace... >.>02:13
macobut the person who lives in japan *looks at persia* isnt in the offtopic channel02:13
maco(i think)02:13
persiaThere's a reason for that :p02:14
* maco tries to tab him02:14
macoright yeah, not there02:14
rwwgpc: anyways. I kinda wished they were too, except that then I realized that that would be yet another rule being pushed on LoCo channels, and also easily-abusable.02:14
rwwalthough, was the old freenode behavior essentially all channels being +F? I forget.02:14
marienzI think so, yes02:15
gpcrww: yeah, but there has to be some way of making it so a Parent Channel can forward to Child Channel. something like a namespace forward I guess02:15
persiaI'm really not sure that's ideal.02:15
persiaThere's many times when we want to send someone to a LoCo channel, but forcing them there seems less freindly.02:16
gpcthere would be less abuse I would hope02:16
gpcthere are many times that no matter how much we try to explain how to get to the LoCo channel the user just does not get it02:16
rwwpersia: more friendly than +qing them because they don't understand the concept of "no $lang in #ubuntu" after 10 minutes of trying :(02:16
persiarww, I don't think so.  I think the /query has a personal flavour which folk appreciate.02:17
persiaI also think the wealth of !cc factoids help direct folk02:17
gpcI forced forward will be "unfriendly" at first but then the user will realize where they are and I hope understand.02:17
bazhangunless its usuario02:17
persiaConsider that the user may be using IRC for the first time, and Ubuntu for the first time, and have no idea what happened: force-forwarding them may cause them to expect that to happen again, which ends up for more work for #ubuntu ops.02:18
gpcso us being forced to +q the user where all they see is a message in English telling them They can't send to channel is better?02:19
rwwpersia: good point02:19
gpc a gentle kick in the butt to the correct channel is less annoying then not understanding why they aren't getting any help at all02:19
rwwreminds me of the people that think the way to get to their channel is to /join #ubuntu, type #ubuntu-cc, and then click it.02:20
persiagpc, Well, if we've done the l10n work correctly in the clients, the message isn't in English.02:20
persiarww, Some of those folk are autojoining #ubuntu because of default client config02:20
persiaMight be worth trying to define some master list of #ubuntu-cc channels, and configuring all the clients to reference this list to send people to appropriate local channels rather than #ubuntu by default.  Of course, this presupposes the channels are staffed, etc.02:21
rwwpersia: either way, typing channels and clicking the typed name is suboptimal. is why I'm glad that an increasing number of !cc factoids have "type /join #ubuntu-cc to join"02:21
gpcwhy can't the client config be set to join the proper -country channel?02:21
persiagpc, Staffing, reliability, coverage, etc.02:21
rwwalso, I believe that LP bug on #ubuntu being too big had part of this discussion02:22
persiaSome LoCo channels only get traffic a couple hours a week.02:22
gpcor join both #ubuntu and -loco02:22
persiaMight be confusing for new folk for some clients, especially folk who are connecting the first time, and may not understand there are two channels.02:23
gpcSo we are back to a new user being forced to an English channel where they get hit with !cc and don't understand what to do with it.02:24
macoi keep reading !cc as being a factoid about the Community Council02:24
macooh good the power came back on02:25
persiaFine.  Is "!${CC}" better?02:25
persiagpc, Unfortunately, there's no good solution, really.  The best I've ever heard involves 1) creating some staffing requirements catalog to be on a whitelist of LoCo channels, 2) refactoring the code of every IRC client to use a shared whitelist for first login, and 3) maintaining and monitoring this mess in a way that keeps everyone motivated.02:27
persiaEven that only covers a subset02:27
gpcthere is a good solution. add a feature to the ircd where all ops of channels in namespace can forward to any other channel in namespace02:29
gpcthe ops can be trusted to not abuse this feature right?02:29
persiaNot all ops for all channels, sadly.02:30
persiaAnd further, it doesn't help the users to learn how not to require operator time02:30
rwwI'm an op in #trollpit. I /join #ubuntu-rginoigfno, register it, +f it to #ubuntu, op up, and +f #trollpit to #ubuntu-rginoigfno02:30
rwwassuming +f is transitive. I've never checked02:30
gpcgroup contact of namespace has to approve creation of #ubuntu-trollpit02:31
persiaNo it doesn't.02:31
gpcto prevent abuse02:31
persiagroup contact of namespace may request uncreation of #ubuntu-trollpit02:31
gpcyes it should02:31
bazhangthat's a channel rww ?02:31
rwwbazhang: probably not. I pressed random keys.02:31
* persia has created 5 or 6 #ubuntu-foo channels, and never had to go through any approval procedures (although they were all justified, and I informed the IRCC, etc.)02:32
gpcto avoid problems you stop it at the source, you don't wait for it to become an issue and then fix it.02:32
gpcpersia: I am saying if there were such a feature as I described above02:32
persiaHaving to go through namespace contacts would so hugely get in my way for some things.02:32
rwwand also be yet another hoop/rule for LoCo channels to have to deal with. we're trying to encourage them, not scare them off with orders.02:33
persiaThe last channel I created, I created to stop an argument: any delay would have been bad.  It now usually has a population of 30-50, and is relatively calm.02:33
gpcok so #channel-foo can be created but can't forward until approved02:34
persiaI still don't think forwarding most users really helps them.02:34
gpcyou don't issue !cc 60 times a day02:35
bazhangthere are only a tiny number of users that refuse knowingly to join their respective channels02:35
persiaIndeed (and no, I only issue !cc 3-5 times a week)02:36
bazhangso imo, /msg the ordinary ones , as the channel scrolls by so fast for many to read02:36
gpccorrect, but for that tiny few who don't "get it" it would be useful02:36
bazhangthe really hardcore abusers usually get killed by idoru anyway02:37
bazhangkolo never did join #ubuntu-pl from what I can see02:38
bazhanghe seems to be /msg'ing floodbot1 though02:39
gpcDaGeek247: How can we help you?04:35
DaGeek247oh, i dont need help04:35
gpcok, then04:36
Hobbseeknome: as for why i'ts allowed in our repos, it's06:46
Hobbsee"because no one has complained loud enough in debian for it to be removed"06:46
persiaErm, that's not the only reason.06:47
persiaThere's oodles of stuff in the repos that was never in Debian.06:47
Hobbseetrue that, but it's an autosync from debian06:48
persiaYeah, well.06:50
elkyit's pretty much a guarantee that the complaints after its removal will be much greater.06:53
persiaThe trivial solution is some string changes to avoid worrisome words.06:58
persiaMuch like the hotbabe applet ended up being renamed and getting skinnable graphics, and then being acceptable.06:59
topylithere are probably numerous packages to change/remove if we go that route. what about jack the ripper for example?07:19
topylivery useful, and can be misused07:19
topyliwhere does it end? emacs?07:20
persiatopyli, You mean the "jack" package?  The description there seems perfectly reasonable.07:20
Tm_Temacs is evil07:20
topyligrr i typed !jack in my shell. i irc too much07:21
topylipersia: apparently i don't mean jack07:22
persiaWhat is "jack the ripper" then?07:23
* persia thought it was the old name of the "jack" package, before it was cleaned up07:23
topylijohn :)07:23
Jordan_Upersia: Jack the Ripper: nothing appropriate.07:23
topyli!info john07:23
ubottujohn (source: john): active password cracking tool. In component main, is optional. Version (maverick), package size 283 kB, installed size 800 kB07:23
bazhangjohn the ripper07:24
persiatopyli, That clearly states "... a tool designed to help systems administrators to find weak ... passwords ...", which is key to ensuring your systems are secure.07:24
topyliit does say admin yes07:24
persiaThe key is phrasing and presentation.  The same code can be a 1337 7001 or a systems management essential.07:25
elkyYou can't approach things differently to black hat and think you're going to succeed as a white hat07:25
persiaYes you can.  The PR team for white hats describe things clearly.  The PR team for black hats provide obfuscation and deniability.07:26
persiaMind you, the code and engineering practices are the same.07:26
elkythat's not approach...07:26
* topyli goes through packages mentioning 'crack' :)07:26
topylithe description of fcrackzip is neutral. 'able to crack password protected zip files with brute force...' ophcrack is similar, just tells you what it does. sipcrack is similar07:31
topyliaircrack-ng actually has the most whitehatted description :)07:32
bazhangGarzooka, hi08:02
bazhangGarzooka, thanks for joining; you are currently +q in #ubuntu after being repeatedly asked to stay on topic, and not doing so.08:03
* Garzooka is only 14 years old08:03
* rww sighs08:03
GarzookaI have established that08:03
bazhangGarzooka, and  you know that #ubuntu is support only, correct?08:04
bazhangGarzooka, so why continue on with the offtopic chat when repeatedly asked to stop08:04
GarzookaI was going to stop after that last off topic line that I said08:06
bazhangGarzooka, you stated clearly in the channel that you don't even use Ubuntu.08:06
Garzookayeah but I like to help or attempt to help08:06
bazhangGarzooka, and as you don't use Ubuntu, and are only offtopic in #ubuntu , was a reason you needed to join there?08:06
bazhangGarzooka, being offtopic constantly is not a help, nor even an attempt to help. it's a busy channel and that just creates more noise.08:07
Garzookato be able to use #ubuntu freely, because sometimes I do actually solve peoples issues08:08
bazhangGarzooka, I have yet to see an instance of you solving anyone's issues.08:08
* Garzooka is autistic and is 1408:08
rwwneither of which in any way excuse your behavior08:09
Garzookawell a few days ago in #freenode I helped someone, and in #windows I have helped people08:10
bazhangGarzooka, thats fine.08:10
bazhangGarzooka, as you no longer use Ubuntu, and cannot credibly stay on topic in #ubuntu , then is there a real reason for you to join there?08:11
rwwpopey: If I remember correctly, the above conversation is relevant to #ubuntu-uk's ops.08:11
bazhangwell I tried; first PM then asked him to come here.08:12
Tm_Talso, I fail to see anything "autistic" on his behaviour08:12
bazhanghis response to why he was offtopic constantly: "I wanted to see what would happen"08:12
Garzookasorry I lost signal08:13
hypatiaGarzooka: you're plenty old enough at 14 to understand that when someone asks you to stop something because it's outside the rules for a channel, that you should stop it08:14
Garzookaits what I do, I help people and sometimes forget what channel I am in08:14
GarzookaI know you see sometimes I just want to send one more off topic line then I stop08:15
hypatiaGarzooka: so slow down, check what channel you're in08:15
Garzookathats what I did right after I got +q08:16
Garzookaand now I feel realy annoyed08:18
Garzookaand need to come to a solution08:19
bazhangGarzooka, thats fine.08:20
bazhangGarzooka, as you have trouble knowing what channel you're in, now would be a good time to take a break from #ubuntu08:20
* Garzooka has a bad feeling that his #ubuntu-uk ban may take longer then he wants it to08:20
GarzookaI have I am not even in the channel08:21
bazhangGarzooka, okay that's fine.08:21
GarzookaI am starting to get fed up08:22
Garzookawith all this +q you banned stuff08:22
bazhangGarzooka, then best learn to follow channel rules.08:22
Garzookaits annoying,08:22
hypatiaGarzooka: you might want to consider modifying the behavior which got you banned, then08:22
rwwthis ^08:22
bazhangokay, I'm stepping back, thanks.08:23
Garzookayou see I want to be able to use irc freely and come to a solution todat08:23
rwwAt some point, instead of dodging responsibility for your actions by ban-evading or mentioning your demographics or claiming you have a vast array of scripts that mimic problematic user behavior, etc., you should consider actually changing your behavior.08:24
Garzookabe sides I am aproching school now08:24
GarzookaI HAVE changed08:24
Garzookayou just dont know that08:24
rwwThe scrollback in #ubuntu does not agree with this claim.08:25
Garzookaanyway at school now seeya this afternoon08:25
rwwAnyway, it's my bed time. 'night.08:25
* popey sighs09:00
Tm_Tsomehow I feel happy that I didn't used IRC in my early years (:09:02
jussiAs per my -irc ML post of about 30 seconds ago....09:06
ubottu<reply> $curDevelLong is the codename for Ubuntu $curDevelNum - $curDevel is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+109:06
jussiNew bot features FTW :)09:06
* popey chuckles at jussis mail09:12
popeyevery time someone uses the phrase "went ahead" or "go ahead" it just makes me think of Office Space09:12
popeypersonal issue, sorry :)09:12
Tm_Tpopey: we love other's personal issues (:)09:20
popeyFurther to the recent discussions about askubuntu and its "officialness" for mentioning in topics / factoids. I just noticed whilst filing a bug on launchpad that in the dialog where you put a description it suggests that if it's not a bug but a question then use answers.lp.net or askubuntu.com09:57
tsimpsonfor me "official" (generally) means it's listed on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community09:59
* popey files a bug to get that done10:02
Tm_Tjolly good10:05
ubottuUbuntu bug 708540 in ubuntu-website-content "askubuntu not listed as a support option" [Undecided,New]10:05
ikoniawhere is the change control and discussion about implimenting new features in ubottu10:39
Tm_T#ubuntu-bots-devel I would suppose10:40
Tm_Tor -team10:40
ikoniait should be discussed on the mailing list and at council meetings before being put live into the ubuntu name space10:40
ikoniaI disagree with the feature add, I am fed up of the double standards10:41
ikoniaI "don't" disagree with the feature add I should say10:41
topyliikonia: how does this feature make your life harder?11:15
topyliall developers are required to contact you if they add features their software. if you're interested in bot development, you're free to pay attention to what the developers do11:17
* persia prefers separation of oversight of tool users and tool developers, to create implicit tension and incentives to meet targets.11:17
topyliif a change fundamentally affects our work, i'm sure it'll be discussed11:18
persiaIndeed, and the fear of that makes the bot devs more likely to choose implementations of new features so that we don't notice any regressions.11:23
BajK_eh, what's this again -.-11:28
topyliapparently bajk is forwarded here from #ubuntu by maco, for an inappropriate quit message11:35
ikoniatopyli: sorry was away from keyboard, it doesn't make my life harder at all, I fully support it, I just don't agree with the implimentation to live without consultation, everything else has to go through the council, through the mailing lists, why is the bot features different11:41
ikoniatopyli: it was agreed that bot features would not go live without agreement again after the ubottu messaging the channel feature that got put in and then removed11:41
jribbut I just saw bajk in #ubuntu11:42
jribactually, he's there now11:42
ikoniaBajK_: be with you in just a moment11:43
topylijrib: #kubuntu, sorry11:43
jribtopyli: ah11:43
ikoniatopyli: won't hurt to explain either11:43
ikoniaBajK_: just wanted to ask you to change your quit/part message, you got ban forwarded from the #kubuntu channel as it's a bit offensive11:43
ikoniahence why you ended up here and then had to join #ubuntu instead of #kubuntu11:44
BajK_ikonia: my quit message? doesn't this revert to default?11:44
BajK_when I use the uttons to part/quit?11:44
ikonia15:56 -!- BajK_ [~quassel@HSI-KBW-078-042-050-068.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Stupid IRC and fucking Bots.]11:44
ikoniathat one11:44
ikoniaif you could remove that from your setup / not use that sort of language/content again, it would be appreciated11:44
BajK_I did that manually using /quit since those stupid floodbots are so damn annoying and I couldnt do anything about it since this stone-age IRC protocol splits long messages up into other ones which triggers the spambot and, yeah.11:45
BajK_but it should be "Quassel - chat comfortably, anywhere" since this is the default setup then11:45
ikoniaok - so could you please not use that sort of language or content in any form in the Ubuntu IRC name space please.11:45
BajK_sorry for boterhing11:46
ikoniaok, I'll remove the ban forward from #kubuntu for you11:46
ikoniayou're welcome to re-join #kubuntu now, but please try to keep your language and content in mind11:46
ikoniaBajK_: you're also welcome to leave this channel now, but thank you for joining and resolving this11:49
BajK_yep, was just busy writing a bug report, bye11:50
bazhangugh my chanserv py chokes on death^12:13
bazhangif someone else wants to take a look, feel free12:15
bazhangdeath^> bazhang, sorry what is the topic again ? yesterday i smoked some kind of heavy buds, it was like rm -rf12:16
bazhangmay want to keep an eye on -ot as its moved there12:21
Tm_T...that didn't go well12:40
ikoniatopyli: if you want him back in the channel, you can remove the ban at your lesure12:40
gp5stwhy was i banned from #ubuntu?12:47
gp5stlast i as there i asked a question, then realized i was told wrong and i had a debian vm not an ubuntu one and moved over to the right irc channel12:47
ikoniaI thought I'd removed that, apologies12:58
ikoniafixed now12:59
h00kbazhang: I concur15:01
=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
ikoniacan we please look at closing #ubuntu-uds ?16:29
Piciikonia: Is it active?16:31
ikoniait's open to join with people in, but no activity16:31
* jpds files under 'Mostly Harmless'.16:32
ikoniait's not the end of the world16:32
ikoniatotally harmless, just seems right to close it until use16:32
ubottuIn ubottu, biiter said: thanks.. thx is rude?16:43
* Pici talks to biiter16:44
charlie-tcajust got to open #ubuntu-uds again in a couple of months ;-)16:46
=== administ1ator is now known as Rannger
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (kunwon2 appears to be abusive - 4.5)19:50
ubottunatt called the ops in #ubuntu ()21:28
ubottunatt called the ops in #ubuntu ()21:28
bazhangtrolling multiple channels21:28
Picibazhang: then I won't waste my time with him.  Thanks.21:30
bazhangPici, -v in #defocus then went on a rampage21:30
guntbertjust for your info: natt got himself quieted in #freenode and devoiced in #defocus....21:31
bazhangguntbert, yep thanks! :)21:31
guntbertyou're welcome :-)21:32
bazhang* natt has quit (K-Lined)21:33
bazhangwindows releases in iso?21:43
Jordan_Ubazhang: MSDN network (legally)21:46
bazhangJordan_U, yep. wonder if thats where philip_ got his21:46
Jordan_UDoubt it ;)21:46

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