[00:41] ... [00:41] » » » [00:42] dear lord richthegeek is not good at the concept of "stop" [00:42] (and yes, that appears to have been a significant factor last time around too) [00:43] (I had a feeling) [01:24] Pici: do i banforward avenge now? [01:24] maco: I don't know what that was [01:49] it was unamerican activities. [01:54] wish the loco channels were all +F [01:55] naming debian after soap products? [01:55] Debian Snuggles [01:56] Debian Tide w/Bleach [01:56] debain wretch [01:57] Did anyone else just see kolo able to talk after being quieted in #ubuntu? [01:57] nope [01:57] nope [01:57] preceded it by a few nanoseconds [01:57] I wonder why it appeared so in my client. [01:57] laaaaag [02:01] Lag in my connection would explain why my +q happened so late after I actually /aq'd, but doesn't quite explain why messages from kolo came after the message that he'd been quieted. [02:01] I saw none, just one letter somewhat nearby [02:01] best to not dwell on such things [02:02] will only drive you crazy [02:02] lag between servers, not lag between your client and the server [02:02] see what it has done to rww [02:02] he actually knows the reason [02:03] "If it wasn't for my horse I never would have made it through that year in college" [02:03] how long do you boil udon? [02:03] udon boil it [02:03] what is udon? /me googles [02:03] @lart gpc [02:03] * gpc forces me to use /me on me [02:04] gpc: noodles [02:04] oh [02:04] till they are done, I would assume much like pasta [02:05] looking for a ballpark though... [02:05] udone ** [02:05] if they are fresh (not frozen or dry) not for very long 1-2 minutes [02:05] you cook pasta for 2 minutes?! [02:05] if that [02:05] fresh pasta yes [02:05] what [02:05] if the water is at a rolling boil [02:05] roiling [02:05] roiling lol [02:06] these are dry [02:06] 'gan mien' [02:06] maco 5-7 minutes ball park [02:06] stopped at the korean market on "get stuff to stock brand new apartment" the day i moved in [02:06] gpc: ok thanks [02:06] its been like...6mo since i last made udon [02:06] oh, not dry. huh. [02:06] but soon as they look done, try one and you will know [02:06] i know soba is 5 minutes [02:07] * persia tends to soak it in boiled (not boiling) water for 3 minutes [02:09] apparently putting the bullion cube in after the water boils makes it sputter [02:09] i wont be doing that again... [02:09] This conversation is confusing me. I'm going back to my harry potter fanfiction. [02:09] hehe [02:09] huh. why have i never bought miso paste? this doesnt make sense. [02:10] well look at that, roiling. [02:10] * gpc learned me something new today. [02:10] you doubted? [02:11] I didn't [02:11] I needed explaining [02:11] I keep trying to read gpc as "General Protection F... meh". [02:12] * persia idly wonders if it makes sense to have a special channel to discuss debian naming conventions, japanese cooking, and people's nicknames [02:13] if only there were an offtopic channel for the Ubuntu namespace... >.> [02:13] #ubuntu-optopic? [02:13] but the person who lives in japan *looks at persia* isnt in the offtopic channel [02:13] (i think) [02:14] There's a reason for that :p [02:14] * maco tries to tab him [02:14] right yeah, not there [02:14] gpc: anyways. I kinda wished they were too, except that then I realized that that would be yet another rule being pushed on LoCo channels, and also easily-abusable. [02:14] although, was the old freenode behavior essentially all channels being +F? I forget. [02:15] I think so, yes [02:15] rww: yeah, but there has to be some way of making it so a Parent Channel can forward to Child Channel. something like a namespace forward I guess [02:15] I'm really not sure that's ideal. [02:16] There's many times when we want to send someone to a LoCo channel, but forcing them there seems less freindly. [02:16] there would be less abuse I would hope [02:16] there are many times that no matter how much we try to explain how to get to the LoCo channel the user just does not get it [02:16] persia: more friendly than +qing them because they don't understand the concept of "no $lang in #ubuntu" after 10 minutes of trying :( [02:17] rww, I don't think so. I think the /query has a personal flavour which folk appreciate. [02:17] I also think the wealth of !cc factoids help direct folk [02:17] I forced forward will be "unfriendly" at first but then the user will realize where they are and I hope understand. [02:17] unless its usuario [02:18] s/I/A/ [02:18] Consider that the user may be using IRC for the first time, and Ubuntu for the first time, and have no idea what happened: force-forwarding them may cause them to expect that to happen again, which ends up for more work for #ubuntu ops. [02:19] so us being forced to +q the user where all they see is a message in English telling them They can't send to channel is better? [02:19] persia: good point [02:19] a gentle kick in the butt to the correct channel is less annoying then not understanding why they aren't getting any help at all [02:20] reminds me of the people that think the way to get to their channel is to /join #ubuntu, type #ubuntu-cc, and then click it. [02:20] gpc, Well, if we've done the l10n work correctly in the clients, the message isn't in English. [02:20] rww, Some of those folk are autojoining #ubuntu because of default client config [02:21] Might be worth trying to define some master list of #ubuntu-cc channels, and configuring all the clients to reference this list to send people to appropriate local channels rather than #ubuntu by default. Of course, this presupposes the channels are staffed, etc. [02:21] persia: either way, typing channels and clicking the typed name is suboptimal. is why I'm glad that an increasing number of !cc factoids have "type /join #ubuntu-cc to join" [02:21] why can't the client config be set to join the proper -country channel? [02:21] gpc, Staffing, reliability, coverage, etc. [02:22] also, I believe that LP bug on #ubuntu being too big had part of this discussion [02:22] Some LoCo channels only get traffic a couple hours a week. [02:22] or join both #ubuntu and -loco [02:23] Might be confusing for new folk for some clients, especially folk who are connecting the first time, and may not understand there are two channels. [02:24] So we are back to a new user being forced to an English channel where they get hit with !cc and don't understand what to do with it. [02:24] i keep reading !cc as being a factoid about the Community Council [02:24] hah [02:25] oh good the power came back on [02:25] Fine. Is "!${CC}" better? [02:27] gpc, Unfortunately, there's no good solution, really. The best I've ever heard involves 1) creating some staffing requirements catalog to be on a whitelist of LoCo channels, 2) refactoring the code of every IRC client to use a shared whitelist for first login, and 3) maintaining and monitoring this mess in a way that keeps everyone motivated. [02:27] Even that only covers a subset [02:29] there is a good solution. add a feature to the ircd where all ops of channels in namespace can forward to any other channel in namespace [02:29] the ops can be trusted to not abuse this feature right? [02:30] Not all ops for all channels, sadly. [02:30] And further, it doesn't help the users to learn how not to require operator time [02:30] I'm an op in #trollpit. I /join #ubuntu-rginoigfno, register it, +f it to #ubuntu, op up, and +f #trollpit to #ubuntu-rginoigfno [02:30] assuming +f is transitive. I've never checked [02:31] group contact of namespace has to approve creation of #ubuntu-trollpit [02:31] No it doesn't. [02:31] to prevent abuse [02:31] group contact of namespace may request uncreation of #ubuntu-trollpit [02:31] yes it should [02:31] that's a channel rww ? [02:31] bazhang: probably not. I pressed random keys. [02:32] * persia has created 5 or 6 #ubuntu-foo channels, and never had to go through any approval procedures (although they were all justified, and I informed the IRCC, etc.) [02:32] to avoid problems you stop it at the source, you don't wait for it to become an issue and then fix it. [02:32] persia: I am saying if there were such a feature as I described above [02:32] Having to go through namespace contacts would so hugely get in my way for some things. [02:33] and also be yet another hoop/rule for LoCo channels to have to deal with. we're trying to encourage them, not scare them off with orders. [02:33] The last channel I created, I created to stop an argument: any delay would have been bad. It now usually has a population of 30-50, and is relatively calm. [02:34] ok so #channel-foo can be created but can't forward until approved [02:34] I still don't think forwarding most users really helps them. [02:35] you don't issue !cc 60 times a day [02:35] perhaps [02:35] there are only a tiny number of users that refuse knowingly to join their respective channels [02:36] Indeed (and no, I only issue !cc 3-5 times a week) [02:36] so imo, /msg the ordinary ones , as the channel scrolls by so fast for many to read [02:36] correct, but for that tiny few who don't "get it" it would be useful [02:37] the really hardcore abusers usually get killed by idoru anyway [02:38] kolo never did join #ubuntu-pl from what I can see [02:39] he seems to be /msg'ing floodbot1 though [04:35] DaGeek247: How can we help you? [04:35] oh, i dont need help [04:36] ok, then [04:36] ... [06:46] knome: as for why i'ts allowed in our repos, it's [06:46] "because no one has complained loud enough in debian for it to be removed" [06:47] Erm, that's not the only reason. [06:47] There's oodles of stuff in the repos that was never in Debian. [06:48] true that, but it's an autosync from debian [06:50] Yeah, well. [06:53] it's pretty much a guarantee that the complaints after its removal will be much greater. [06:58] The trivial solution is some string changes to avoid worrisome words. [06:59] Much like the hotbabe applet ended up being renamed and getting skinnable graphics, and then being acceptable. [07:19] there are probably numerous packages to change/remove if we go that route. what about jack the ripper for example? [07:19] very useful, and can be misused [07:20] where does it end? emacs? [07:20] hehe [07:20] topyli, You mean the "jack" package? The description there seems perfectly reasonable. [07:20] emacs is evil [07:21] grr i typed !jack in my shell. i irc too much [07:21] lol [07:22] persia: apparently i don't mean jack [07:23] What is "jack the ripper" then? [07:23] * persia thought it was the old name of the "jack" package, before it was cleaned up [07:23] john :) [07:23] persia: Jack the Ripper: nothing appropriate. [07:23] !info john [07:23] john (source: john): active password cracking tool. In component main, is optional. Version 1.7.3.1-1 (maverick), package size 283 kB, installed size 800 kB [07:24] john the ripper [07:24] topyli, That clearly states "... a tool designed to help systems administrators to find weak ... passwords ...", which is key to ensuring your systems are secure. [07:24] it does say admin yes [07:25] The key is phrasing and presentation. The same code can be a 1337 7001 or a systems management essential. [07:25] You can't approach things differently to black hat and think you're going to succeed as a white hat [07:26] Yes you can. The PR team for white hats describe things clearly. The PR team for black hats provide obfuscation and deniability. [07:26] Mind you, the code and engineering practices are the same. [07:26] that's not approach... [07:26] * topyli goes through packages mentioning 'crack' :) [07:31] the description of fcrackzip is neutral. 'able to crack password protected zip files with brute force...' ophcrack is similar, just tells you what it does. sipcrack is similar [07:32] aircrack-ng actually has the most whitehatted description :) [08:02] Garzooka, hi [08:03] hello [08:03] Garzooka, thanks for joining; you are currently +q in #ubuntu after being repeatedly asked to stay on topic, and not doing so. [08:03] * Garzooka is only 14 years old [08:03] * rww sighs [08:03] I have established that [08:04] Garzooka, and you know that #ubuntu is support only, correct? [08:04] correct [08:04] Garzooka, so why continue on with the offtopic chat when repeatedly asked to stop [08:06] I was going to stop after that last off topic line that I said [08:06] Garzooka, you stated clearly in the channel that you don't even use Ubuntu. [08:06] yeah but I like to help or attempt to help [08:06] Garzooka, and as you don't use Ubuntu, and are only offtopic in #ubuntu , was a reason you needed to join there? [08:07] Garzooka, being offtopic constantly is not a help, nor even an attempt to help. it's a busy channel and that just creates more noise. [08:08] to be able to use #ubuntu freely, because sometimes I do actually solve peoples issues [08:08] Garzooka, I have yet to see an instance of you solving anyone's issues. [08:08] * Garzooka is autistic and is 14 [08:09] neither of which in any way excuse your behavior [08:10] well a few days ago in #freenode I helped someone, and in #windows I have helped people [08:10] Garzooka, thats fine. [08:11] Garzooka, as you no longer use Ubuntu, and cannot credibly stay on topic in #ubuntu , then is there a real reason for you to join there? [08:11] gah [08:11] popey: If I remember correctly, the above conversation is relevant to #ubuntu-uk's ops. [08:12] yup [08:12] well I tried; first PM then asked him to come here. [08:12] also, I fail to see anything "autistic" on his behaviour [08:12] his response to why he was offtopic constantly: "I wanted to see what would happen" [08:13] sorry I lost signal [08:14] Garzooka: you're plenty old enough at 14 to understand that when someone asks you to stop something because it's outside the rules for a channel, that you should stop it [08:14] its what I do, I help people and sometimes forget what channel I am in [08:15] I know you see sometimes I just want to send one more off topic line then I stop [08:15] Garzooka: so slow down, check what channel you're in [08:16] thats what I did right after I got +q [08:18] and now I feel realy annoyed [08:19] and need to come to a solution [08:20] Garzooka, thats fine. [08:20] Garzooka, as you have trouble knowing what channel you're in, now would be a good time to take a break from #ubuntu [08:20] * Garzooka has a bad feeling that his #ubuntu-uk ban may take longer then he wants it to [08:21] I have I am not even in the channel [08:21] Garzooka, okay that's fine. [08:22] I am starting to get fed up [08:22] with all this +q you banned stuff [08:22] Garzooka, then best learn to follow channel rules. [08:22] its annoying, [08:22] Garzooka: you might want to consider modifying the behavior which got you banned, then [08:22] this ^ [08:23] okay, I'm stepping back, thanks. [08:23] you see I want to be able to use irc freely and come to a solution todat [08:24] taday [08:24] today [08:24] At some point, instead of dodging responsibility for your actions by ban-evading or mentioning your demographics or claiming you have a vast array of scripts that mimic problematic user behavior, etc., you should consider actually changing your behavior. [08:24] be sides I am aproching school now [08:24] I HAVE changed [08:24] you just dont know that [08:25] The scrollback in #ubuntu does not agree with this claim. [08:25] anyway at school now seeya this afternoon [08:25] Anyway, it's my bed time. 'night. [09:00] * popey sighs [09:02] somehow I feel happy that I didn't used IRC in my early years (: [09:06] As per my -irc ML post of about 30 seconds ago.... [09:06] !+ubuntu+1 [09:06] $curDevelLong is the codename for Ubuntu $curDevelNum - $curDevel is NOT released and is NOT stable - Discussion and support only in #ubuntu+1 [09:06] New bot features FTW :) [09:12] * popey chuckles at jussis mail [09:12] every time someone uses the phrase "went ahead" or "go ahead" it just makes me think of Office Space [09:12] personal issue, sorry :) [09:20] popey: we love other's personal issues (:) [09:20] \o/ [09:25] :D [09:57] Further to the recent discussions about askubuntu and its "officialness" for mentioning in topics / factoids. I just noticed whilst filing a bug on launchpad that in the dialog where you put a description it suggests that if it's not a bug but a question then use answers.lp.net or askubuntu.com [09:59] for me "official" (generally) means it's listed on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community [10:02] * popey files a bug to get that done [10:05] jolly good [10:05] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/708540 [10:05] done [10:05] Ubuntu bug 708540 in ubuntu-website-content "askubuntu not listed as a support option" [Undecided,New] [10:39] where is the change control and discussion about implimenting new features in ubottu [10:40] #ubuntu-bots-devel I would suppose [10:40] or -team [10:40] unacceptable [10:40] unacceptable [10:40] it should be discussed on the mailing list and at council meetings before being put live into the ubuntu name space [10:41] I disagree with the feature add, I am fed up of the double standards [10:41] I "don't" disagree with the feature add I should say [11:15] ikonia: how does this feature make your life harder? [11:17] all developers are required to contact you if they add features their software. if you're interested in bot development, you're free to pay attention to what the developers do [11:17] * persia prefers separation of oversight of tool users and tool developers, to create implicit tension and incentives to meet targets. [11:18] if a change fundamentally affects our work, i'm sure it'll be discussed [11:23] Indeed, and the fear of that makes the bot devs more likely to choose implementations of new features so that we don't notice any regressions. [11:28] eh, what's this again -.- [11:35] apparently bajk is forwarded here from #ubuntu by maco, for an inappropriate quit message [11:41] yup [11:41] topyli: sorry was away from keyboard, it doesn't make my life harder at all, I fully support it, I just don't agree with the implimentation to live without consultation, everything else has to go through the council, through the mailing lists, why is the bot features different [11:41] topyli: it was agreed that bot features would not go live without agreement again after the ubottu messaging the channel feature that got put in and then removed [11:42] but I just saw bajk in #ubuntu [11:42] actually, he's there now [11:43] BajK_: be with you in just a moment [11:43] jrib: #kubuntu, sorry [11:43] topyli: ah [11:43] okay [11:43] topyli: won't hurt to explain either [11:43] BajK_: just wanted to ask you to change your quit/part message, you got ban forwarded from the #kubuntu channel as it's a bit offensive [11:44] hence why you ended up here and then had to join #ubuntu instead of #kubuntu [11:44] ikonia: my quit message? doesn't this revert to default? [11:44] when I use the uttons to part/quit? [11:44] 15:56 -!- BajK_ [~quassel@HSI-KBW-078-042-050-068.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Stupid IRC and fucking Bots.] [11:44] that one [11:44] if you could remove that from your setup / not use that sort of language/content again, it would be appreciated [11:45] I did that manually using /quit since those stupid floodbots are so damn annoying and I couldnt do anything about it since this stone-age IRC protocol splits long messages up into other ones which triggers the spambot and, yeah. [11:45] but it should be "Quassel - chat comfortably, anywhere" since this is the default setup then [11:45] ok - so could you please not use that sort of language or content in any form in the Ubuntu IRC name space please. [11:46] sure [11:46] sorry for boterhing [11:46] ok, I'll remove the ban forward from #kubuntu for you [11:46] thx [11:46] you're welcome to re-join #kubuntu now, but please try to keep your language and content in mind [11:49] BajK_: you're also welcome to leave this channel now, but thank you for joining and resolving this [11:50] yep, was just busy writing a bug report, bye [12:13] ugh my chanserv py chokes on death^ [12:15] if someone else wants to take a look, feel free [12:16] death^> bazhang, sorry what is the topic again ? yesterday i smoked some kind of heavy buds, it was like rm -rf [12:21] may want to keep an eye on -ot as its moved there [12:40] ...that didn't go well [12:40] topyli: if you want him back in the channel, you can remove the ban at your lesure [12:47] why was i banned from #ubuntu? [12:47] last i as there i asked a question, then realized i was told wrong and i had a debian vm not an ubuntu one and moved over to the right irc channel [12:58] I thought I'd removed that, apologies [12:59] fixed now [14:37] ugh [15:01] bazhang: I concur === mnepton is now known as mneptok [16:29] can we please look at closing #ubuntu-uds ? [16:31] ikonia: Is it active? [16:31] it's open to join with people in, but no activity [16:32] * jpds files under 'Mostly Harmless'. [16:32] it's not the end of the world [16:32] totally harmless, just seems right to close it until use [16:43] In ubottu, biiter said: thanks.. thx is rude? [16:44] * Pici talks to biiter [16:46] just got to open #ubuntu-uds again in a couple of months ;-) === administ1ator is now known as Rannger [19:50] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (kunwon2 appears to be abusive - 4.5) [21:28] natt called the ops in #ubuntu () [21:28] natt called the ops in #ubuntu () [21:28] trolling multiple channels [21:30] bazhang: then I won't waste my time with him. Thanks. [21:30] Pici, -v in #defocus then went on a rampage [21:31] just for your info: natt got himself quieted in #freenode and devoiced in #defocus.... [21:31] guntbert, yep thanks! :) [21:32] you're welcome :-) [21:33] * natt has quit (K-Lined) [21:43] windows releases in iso? [21:46] bazhang: MSDN network (legally) [21:46] Jordan_U, yep. wonder if thats where philip_ got his [21:46] Doubt it ;)