[00:08] <RoyK> MCE is quite nice
[00:09] <RoyK> got some reboots from a server and MCE told me it was memory fault.......
[00:13] <binaryhat> i want to connect to my virtualized o/s on my server using virt-viewer w/o ssh. how do i do it?
[00:14] <binaryhat> virt-viewer -c qemu://192.168.1.101:50001/system win_ult7 does not work
[00:18] <sascha_> hi, I could really use your help: hp storageworks is linked via fibrechannel to two dl380 running ubuntu. I can mount the nas without problems (multipath) but copying files etc. the fs on the nas (ext3) is corrupted. Any ideas?
[00:19] <SpamapS> sascha_: corrupted in content only, or metadata problems too?
[00:20] <binaryhat> ?
[00:20] <RoyK> sascha_: are you trying to mount an ext3 filesystem from two different machines?
[00:20] <sascha_> SpamapS: fsck.ext3 has to repair lots of inodes :-(
[00:20] <binaryhat> how do i use virt-viewer w/o ssh?
[00:20] <sascha_> RoyK: yes
[00:21] <SpamapS> binaryhat: what is virt-viewer?
[00:21] <RoyK> sascha_: that's asking for trouble
[00:21] <RoyK> ext3 doesn't support that
[00:21] <binaryhat> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/libvirt.html
[00:23] <sascha_> RoyK: why? should not the controller of the storageworks prevent simultaneous write operations?
[00:23] <SpamapS> sascha_: You may want to look into CLVM if you want to create volumes that can be mounted on one server at a time
[00:23] <SpamapS> sascha_: haha no
[00:23] <RoyK> sascha_: the filesystem is cached locally - use something like GPS
[00:23] <SpamapS> sascha_: GFS is also an option.
[00:23] <RoyK> sorry, GFS
[00:23] <SpamapS> sascha_: but first ask yourself why you want to do this. :)
[00:24] <sascha_> spamaps: f..ck
[00:24] <yann2> sascha_, you need some sort of cluster filesystem for that, like SpamapS suggests, be very careful about mounting an ext3 fs on several filesystem
[00:24] <yann2> yu might want to use NFS
[00:25] <sascha_> spamaps: I want to store our virtual machines on the nas. In case of hardware failure I can quickly switch over
[00:25] <RoyK> sascha_: shared storage filesystems are complex, and not very well tested in the linux world
[00:25] <RoyK> sascha_: NFS would work well with that
[00:25] <SpamapS> CLVM too ..
[00:26] <RoyK> OCFS might work as well
[00:26] <yann2> interesting SpamapS  I didnt know about that, is it commonly used for virtualisation?
[00:28] <SpamapS> yann2: It works just like lvm .. but it has cluster awareness so you don't botch up your metadata by messing with it on two machines
[00:28] <RoyK> I'd recommend something like GFS or OCFS
[00:28] <RoyK> SpamapS: but not very stable and not very supported?
[00:29] <sascha_> spamaps, royk: thx, I will check on the recommended file systems at once
[00:29] <SpamapS> I use CLVM once about 5 years ago and it was simple and worked. Not sure if it has been maintained since
[00:29] <SpamapS> sascha_: I think if your NAS supports NFS, you should use NFS
[00:30] <SpamapS> its the simplest solution
[00:30] <sascha_> royk: ocfs the experimental mark hast been removed in recent kernels
[00:30] <RoyK> ok - didn't  know that
[00:31] <RoyK> still, using ext3 for shared storage is a little like russian roulette
[00:33] <SpamapS> its more like kamikaze warfare
[00:33]  * SpamapS disappears again
[00:33] <RoyK> well, russian roulette with all six chambers filled :P
[00:34] <sascha_> spamaps: I am already browsing the manual
[00:35] <RoyK> sascha_: about he "not very stable" comment, that went to CLVM, not OCFS
[00:36] <sascha_> spamaps, royk: it was so easy, install multipathd, format the virtualdisk, mount it, finish. I should have known it was too easy :-)
[00:36] <RoyK> just use a filesystem that supports multiple mounts
[00:37] <RoyK> ext3 certainly does not support that
[00:37] <sascha_> spamaps, royk: thank you very very much. I really appreciate your help. Have nice day. I will at once begin working on the problem.
[00:38] <RoyK> good luck :)
[00:38] <Angryfurby> hey guys i have having issues trying to host multiple websites with ubuntu 10.04 can anyone offer some help
[00:40] <ChmEarl> Angryfurby, grep or locate the vhost examples under /usr/share/apache2
[00:41] <Angryfurby> ok let me take a look
[00:41] <Angryfurby> because i think i messed up up on creating virtual.conf
[00:42] <Angryfurby> don't have vhost examples i just looked
[00:42] <ChmEarl> Angryfurby,  what you want is a vhost.conf example, whereever it turns out to be
[00:46] <ChmEarl> /usr/share/doc/apache2.2-common/examples/apache2/extra/httpd-vhosts.conf
[00:47] <ChmEarl> Angryfurby, I had to start my Xen server to look for it
[00:47] <RoyK> Angryfurby: create new /etc/apache2/sites-available/whatever.conf files
[00:47] <Angryfurby> i already did
[00:48] <RoyK> symlink them to /etc/apache2/sites-enabled
[00:48] <Angryfurby> let me pastbin the configs
[00:48] <RoyK> reload apache
[00:48] <Angryfurby> did it also
[00:48] <Angryfurby> but it just doesn't load them
[00:48]  * RoyK mumbles rtfm
[00:49] <sascha_> angryfurby: does your apache load one site at least?
[00:50] <Angryfurby> yes the default
[00:50] <Angryfurby> but not the others
[00:51] <sascha_> angryfurby: for all your domain names the default page is loaded, right?
[00:51] <Angryfurby> http://pastebin.com/1chVknCj
[00:51] <Angryfurby> at one point yes
[00:53] <Angryfurby> atm they only load the default page
[00:59] <sascha_> angryfurby:sry, it took some time: try this. it is a VERY basic httpd.conf http://pastebin.com/9H4xWRvL
[01:01] <Angryfurby> i see now i will try it
[01:11] <Angryfurby> success !
[01:11] <Angryfurby> you have to assign the virtual host
[01:11] <Angryfurby> to a ip address correct
[03:35] <charas> I am getting "ssh connection refused" :( sshd is running so I guess firewall it is then. How can I fix it?
[04:24] <compengprof> is anyone available to provide some help with kvm and virsh?
[04:26] <compengprof> hello?
[04:39] <compengprof> I'm looking for some help with kvm and virsh. I followed the insructionsw in http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/virtualization.html to create the bridge and vmbuilder to create the vm, but it keeps getting stuck as Grub stage 2
[05:14] <wizardslovak> i disabled root in ssh , but if ill add user to sudoers file i should do without sudo right?
[05:15] <fluvvell> is there a way of telling what speed the net if is operating at apart from transferring some data? ie is it operating at gigabit or just 100Mb
[05:24] <gobbe> wizardslovak: yep
[05:25] <gobbe> wizardslovak: ah sorry, you add user to sudoers with sudo/root
[05:25] <gobbe> wizardslovak: but you login with normal user and then elevate to root using sudo
[05:25] <wizardslovak> gobbe, yeap
[05:25] <wizardslovak> yea but lets say i want to transfer file from laptop to server with filezilla
[05:25] <gobbe> fluvvell: ethtool
[05:25] <wizardslovak> i cant do that as i am logged as user and root is dissabled
[05:26] <gobbe> wizardslovak: well, if you know root's password you can
[05:26] <gobbe> wizardslovak: su -
[05:26] <wizardslovak> yes
[05:27] <wizardslovak> but i dissabled root in ssh_conf
[05:27] <gobbe> the ssh-option only makes root-user not to login
[05:27] <gobbe> yep, it means jsut that you cannot login with root-user
[05:27] <gobbe> it doesn't prevent user to become root with sudo or su
[05:27] <fluvvell> gobbe, thanks - have just been trying ethtool out - seems a bit reluctant to give meaningful output from my r8169 based card
[05:28] <wizardslovak> in filezilla you cant write in command
[05:28] <gobbe> of course cannot
[05:28] <wizardslovak> once you loggin as user i cant use sudo or su
[05:28] <gobbe> you need to ssh in
[05:28] <gobbe> if you want to move files with filezilla add correct rights to your user
[05:29] <wizardslovak> aha
[05:30] <wizardslovak> so just adding user to sudoers wont do that
[05:30] <gobbe> no
[05:30] <gobbe> it allows user to run commands as root
[05:30] <gobbe> !sudo
[05:31] <wizardslovak> ok
[05:31] <wizardslovak> so to transfer file to root owner folder it should work
[05:43] <wizardslovak> weird
[05:44] <wizardslovak> i got wordpress and phpbb using same port for email
[05:44] <wizardslovak> but when i sent emails from both i get them on my gmail
[05:44] <wizardslovak> but my friend only gets from phpbb
[05:44] <wizardslovak> not the blog
[05:46] <wizardslovak> should i change ports?
[05:48] <twb> Technically it's for switching users, not necessarily for *escalating* privileges
[06:12] <gobbe> twb: well, technically it's switching user, true
[06:12] <gobbe> wizardslovak: what is your smtp-server?
[06:13] <twb> e.g. sudo -u www-data debmirror
[06:13] <gobbe> yep
[06:15] <wizardslovak> smt.gmail.com
[06:24] <gobbe> if you use gmails smtp it will change from address to your gmail-address
[06:32] <twb> gobbe: in the envelope?
[06:33] <gobbe> yep
[06:33] <gobbe> so that you cannot use googles smtp to send something that is not googles account
[06:33] <twb> Meh, normal users do not look at the envelope
[06:33] <gobbe> i noticed that once when i sent one job mail from mobile phone, using googles smtp
[06:34] <gobbe> twb: well, it changes reply-to also
[06:34] <gobbe> so it looks like it was from gmail
[06:34] <twb> No, it doesn't.
[06:34] <twb> I just checked.
[06:34] <gobbe> well, at least it did that ~6 months ago
[06:34] <gobbe> when i used it on my mobile phone
[06:34] <gobbe> maybe they have changed it
[06:34] <twb> Probably that was your MUA
[06:34] <gobbe> no it wasnt
[06:35] <gobbe> i have only one account in my mobile phone, and it's email-settings have nothing to do with my gmail, only gmail related was smtp.gmail.com
[06:35] <twb> http://paste.debian.net/105788/
[06:35] <twb> That's sent via smtp.google.com
[06:35] <twb> It sets the *Sender* -- that's not the same as Reply-To.
[06:35] <gobbe> ok, so they have changed it
[06:36] <gobbe> it used to be that reply-to was also changed
[06:36] <gobbe> that was the reason why i then did my own smtp-server
[06:36] <twb> Having said that, I have seen the occasional paranoid MTA reject such mail
[06:37] <twb> What I normally do is tell msmtp to pick the smarthost based on the From
[06:37] <gobbe> yep
[06:38] <twb> Also, I highly recommend msmtp for satellites.
[06:38] <twb> And for debugging MTAs :-)
[06:47] <sascha__> good morning, is here someone in this channel who can answer me some questions regarding the oracle database file system (running under ubuntu server)?
[06:49] <twb> !ask > sascha__
[06:58] <sascha__> is the oracle database filesystem capable of managing simulanious r/w access (nas) from two attached servers (fibre channel)?
[07:04] <gobbe> ocfs(2)?
[07:04] <gobbe> /dev/drbd1 on /j0 type ocfs2 (rw,_netdev,noatime,nodiratime,heartbeat=local)
[07:05] <gobbe> and it's mounted on two machines with r/w, so answer is, it is
[07:05] <gobbe> :)
[07:07] <twb> Hang on, drbd ≠ ocfs
[07:08] <gobbe> well, filesystem is ocfs
[07:08] <twb> Oh, I see
[07:08] <gobbe> and i'm using it also with FC
[07:08] <gobbe> on other machine
[07:08] <twb> ocfs on top of drbd
[07:08] <gobbe> yep
[07:08] <gobbe> drbd just handles mirror
[07:08] <gobbe> it needs also filesystem :)
[07:08] <twb> The output format was weird
[07:08] <gobbe> yea, sorry
[07:08] <twb> I set up drbd once
[07:09] <twb> I lost interest when the work to make the root filesystem a DRBD node turned out to be nontrivial
[07:09] <twb> I think we went with md on top of aoe instead
[07:10] <\sh> drbd as rootdevice? sounds evil
[07:13] <gobbe> it's not root device
[07:14] <gobbe> aah
[07:14] <gobbe> sorry, you talked about other :)
[07:14] <sascha__> twb. gobbe: sorry, lack of sleep ocfs2
[07:14] <gobbe> sascha__: yep, it's capable of dual r/w
[07:14] <gobbe> sascha__: i would go with it, especially if you have only two nodes
[07:15] <gobbe> sascha__: gfs2 is better if you have several nodes and fencing device, but without those i would go with ocfs2
[07:15] <sascha__> 2nd question regarding ocfs2 can I disable the bail-out function if heartbeat stops responding?
[07:15] <sascha__> I only have two nodes attached via fc to a hp san
[07:16] <sascha__> on the san I store virtual machines for vmware
[07:17] <sascha__> the idea is (until we have money for vmware vcenter) that even if one server dies I can start (manually) the virtual machine on the second server
[07:25]  * twb grumbles about proprietary solutions
[07:30] <sascha__> twb: do you mean my solution or the vsphere center?
[07:30] <twb> sascha__: anything
[07:30] <twb> specifically it's a kneejerk reaction to "vmware"
[07:31] <twb> I'm rolling out a new mailserver (postfix+dovecot+mailman).  The current plan is to use postgrey and spamassassin against UCE.  Anyone want to sell me on an alternative?
[07:31] <sascha__> twb: :-), why, they were the ones who brought virtualisation to market and I feel more comfortable with them than with M$
[07:32] <twb> sascha__: if by "the market" you mean 80x86, I guess...
[07:32] <sascha__> twb: no good solution, well tested
[07:32] <sascha__> twb: of cource x86
[07:32] <twb> s/390, sparc and power had stuff before vmware IIRC
[07:33] <sascha__> twb: sparc does still exist? the last sparc I know of was installed in university 15 years ago
[07:33] <twb> sascha__: right, that's when it had virtualization
[07:34] <twb> x86 not having hardware virtuzalition from the start was really a symptom of being designed for washing machines
[07:35] <twb> "Hardware-assisted virtualization was first introduced on the IBM System/370 in 1972, for use with VM/370, the first virtual machine operating system."
[07:36] <sascha__> twb: that was before I was born :-)
[07:37] <twb> And apparently SPARC only grew true hardware virtuzalition at the same time as x86 -- I guess I was thinking of its fine-grained SMT
[07:38] <sascha__> twb: sry, I really enjoy chatting with you, but I have to answer some calls. I will be back online later, cu
[07:38] <twb> Whatever, man
[07:38] <sascha__> twb: I really mean it to hear from an "oldster" about the old ages ;-)
[07:38] <sascha__> twb: bye
[07:38] <twb> I'm twenty-five!
[07:39] <twb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popek_and_Goldberg_virtualization_requirements is the paper I was thinking of.
[07:40] <aliverius> can someone help me with smartctl?
[07:40] <twb> !ask > aliverius
[07:41] <aliverius> twb: why this?
[07:41] <twb> No comment.
[07:41] <aliverius> do you want me to pastebin the output?
[07:41] <aliverius> directly?
[07:41] <twb> aliverius: you have not stated the problem yet.
[07:41] <aliverius> i want to open a discussion sorry
[07:42] <aliverius> i have a problem with a hdd obviously and i am testing it with smartctl
[07:44] <aliverius> `sudo smartctl --attributes --log=selftest --quietmode=errorsonly /dev/sdb` gives no output
[07:44] <aliverius> does this mean the disk is ok?
[07:44] <twb> I don't know.
[07:44] <twb> I use smartctl -t short /dev/sda
[07:45] <twb> Then inspect it with smartctl -a /dev/sda
[07:47] <aliverius> also
[07:47] <aliverius> i copied a 47gb file to the problematic disk
[07:47] <aliverius> md5sum is ok
[07:47] <aliverius> no errors in dmesg either
[07:47] <twb> That is not a useful test.
[07:47] <aliverius> (before i changed cable, io would create many errors)
[07:59] <Brdavs> Hellols
[08:06] <WinnerOK> Ïîäñêàæèòå ãäå ìîæíî íàéòè ìàíóàë ïî óñòàíîâêå è íàñòðîéêå IRC SERVER ?
[08:07] <twb> WinnerOK: UTF-8, please.
[08:08] <twb> !ru
[08:08] <WinnerOK> OK
[08:10] <WinnerOK> !ru
[08:10] <WinnerOK> In Russian is not nobody: (
[08:11] <twb> WinnerOK: sorry.
[08:12] <WinnerOK> I'm looking for a manual for installing and configuring the IRC SERVERA on ubuntu 10.04 at manul suitable for any version!
[08:17] <twb> ubottu: apt-get install ircd-irc2
[08:17] <twb> Oops
[08:28] <aliverius> twb: is this serious?
[08:28] <aliverius> # 1  Short offline       Completed: read failure       90%        18         491864576
[08:28] <aliverius> # 2  Short offline       Completed: read failure       70%        18         491864560
[08:28] <aliverius> # 3  Extended offline    Completed: read failure       80%        11         491866296
[08:43] <j0nr> morning
[08:44] <j0nr> sigh, cannot get (have rarely had) the ability to send mail from a remote device. always get these errors:
[08:44] <j0nr> Jan 27 08:42:20 jcrdevelopments postfix/smtpd[6151]: warning: SASL authentication failure: cannot connect to saslauthd server: No such file or directory
[08:44] <j0nr> Jan 27 08:42:20 jcrdevelopments postfix/smtpd[6151]: warning: unknown[109.181.95.213]: SASL LOGIN authentication failed: generic failure
[08:45] <j0nr> I set up my mail server as per the 'perfect server' for  8,04 LTS.
[08:45] <j0nr> it worked on day 1 but then since something has happened and its stopped
[08:45] <j0nr> I can recieve mail no problem (on my imap client on my phone) but cannt send
[08:49] <twb> aliverius: yes, it's seroius
[08:50] <twb> aliverius: it says that the last third of your disk is buggered
[08:50] <aliverius> it is strange because i run a long test yesterday and it didnt catch any errors
[08:51] <twb> Shrug
[08:55]  * aliverius shrugs too
[08:56] <twb> IMO you should go buy new disk(s) and restore from backup ASAP
[08:56] <twb> Preferably set up an md RAID1 or RAID5 while you're at it.
[08:57] <aliverius> twb: they are on raid already
[08:57] <twb> Then you're in luck -- you only have to replace the dead disk and resync
[09:32] <aliverius> twb: do you know how i can distinguish which hard disk is the faulty one?
[09:38] <twb> Uh, it's the one you ran smartctl on
[09:43] <aliverius> ... it is /dev/sdb but which one is sdb?
[09:43] <aliverius> which physical unit
[09:44] <twb> You can use hdparm or sdaparm to get its serial number
[09:53] <huats> morning
[10:03] <aliverius> now it wont boot
[10:03] <aliverius> and my raid is bad
[10:03] <aliverius> there must be a problem with gpt and the special grub partition
[10:03] <aliverius> should i have put it in the raid partition?
[10:41] <trinkolas> hi everyone! how can i do a netinstall of ubuntu server 10.04???
[10:47] <gobbe> !netinstall
[11:17] <trinkolas> i need to do a netinstall from xen of ubuntu 10.04, but i need to know the url!!! anyone can help me???
[11:27] <trinkolas> i need to do a netinstall from xen of ubuntu 10.04, but i need to know the url!!! anyone can help me???
[11:33] <gobbe> trinkolas: didn you read what ubottu listed
[11:34] <gobbe> trinkolas: url is your local mirror, or check some other from ubuntus page
[11:36] <trinkolas> gobbe: virt-install doesnt allow a local mirror, only a netinstall
[11:38] <gobbe> trinkolas: then use netinstall-media and install from there
[11:38] <gobbe> url is your local mirror
[11:38] <gobbe> local mirror == nearist site having images
[11:54] <pluesch0r> hi everybody. i've installed lucid on a fujitsu server. everything works, except the video output is garbled when using the builtin ipmi/kvm module. any idea what i could be doing wrong/differently?
[11:59] <pluesch0r> how do i find out what graphics mode the console is in right now?
[12:10] <screen-x> every so often, my NTP server rejects all its peers and goes of to sulk in stratum 16, I setup a cron job to log what was happening: http://paste.ubuntu.com/558960/
[12:11] <screen-x> Any idea how to solve it.. stop running my main ntp server in a vm? add more upstream servers?
[12:19] <_ruben> ntp and virtualization are from from bestest friends .. especially a roo tone
[12:19] <_ruben> root one
[12:19] <screen-x> _ruben: far from ?
[12:22] <_ruben> yeah .. brain-hand miscommunications
[12:41] <yann2> could someone point me to a natty alpha iso?
[12:42] <pmatulis> yann2: ?  google gives: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/natty/alpha-1/
[12:43] <yann2> thanks... did try google put must have used the wrong keywords :(
[12:43] <pmatulis> "ubuntu natty alpha"
[12:44] <yann2> tred ubuntu 11.4 alpha download :)
[12:46] <db-> any idea why my storage devices like sda are missing the HOST-RESOURCES-MIB::hrDeviceTable tree? OS is ubuntu lucid 10.04 net-snmp version 5.4.2.1~dfsg0ubuntu1-0ubuntu2.1
[12:46] <db-> although i do see hrStorage in HOST-RESOURCES-MIB::hrStorage
[12:46] <db-> problem is that collectors like opennms navigate through devicetree and are missing the disks, and therefore can collect usage data
[12:46] <db-> s/can/can't
[13:54] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/558996/ can any one look at my problem
[14:04] <SpamapS> wow Bipul waited all of 8 minutes for an answer. :-/
[14:04] <SpamapS> looks like there may actually be a bug in the dkimproxy package :-P
[14:06] <aliverius> i built a raid 1 array with two disks which have gtp partitioning. i put the boot_bios partition for grub outside the raid partition. did i do wrong? now that i removed one disk from the array it doesnt boot
[14:09] <SpamapS> aliverius: you should install grub on both disks
[14:13] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559008/ whats wrong with it
[14:15] <SpamapS> Bipul`: I'm pretty sure that either a) there is a bug in the dkimproxy package, or b) you already installed it before, and the configs/scripts were broken.
[14:15] <aliverius> SpamapS: so a first partition, outside raid/lvm, was a correct choice?
[14:16] <aliverius> SpamapS: i think that ubuntu installed grub in both partitions
[14:16] <aliverius> anyway i am reinstalling everything
[14:17] <aliverius> will it be easy to re-create the array when i get the other disk?
[14:18] <SpamapS> aliverius: should be, just duplicate the partition sizes from the working disk exactly.
[14:22] <RoAkSoAx> morning all!!
[14:22] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: dude!! isn't it like 6 am for you?
[14:23] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: yeah, baby woke me up :P
[14:24] <Bipul`> let me report this bug
[14:24] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: oh!! Jeez I don't even remember when was the last time I woke up at 6 or earlier >P
[14:25] <SpamapS> Bipul`: cool thanks!
[14:32]  * SpamapS sits and waits while the mysql build downloads texlive-latext-extra-doc .. all 190MB of it
[14:33] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559017/ GUys plz help me out
[14:33] <Bipul`> i dont know whats wrong with it
[14:34] <SpamapS> Bipul`: since dkimproxy is broken, you may want to remove it first.
[14:34] <Bipul`> sudo apt-get remove dkimproxy
[14:34] <SpamapS> yeah
[14:35] <Bipul`> this way
[14:37] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559023/ stil got error in removing
[14:40] <Bipul`> sudo apt-get perg dkimproxy << do i need to use this command ?
[14:44] <SpamapS> Bipul`: that would work yes, be careful as it will remove your configurations
[14:47] <aliverius> does the reserved boot bios partition have to be bootable? the installer doesnt let me flag anything as bootable. i have root in raid+lvm
[14:49] <patdk-lap> isn't the boot bios partition just extra holding room for grub2?
[14:49] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559029/ look at now
[14:49] <Bipul`> stil error in stoping this application
[14:52] <Bipul`> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559034/ guys i thought may be dkimproxy is not installed so when i try to install i got again a issue http://paste.ubuntu.com/559034/
[14:52] <aliverius> patdk-lap: it is
[15:00] <zul> SpamapS,  whats the bug number for the facter bug
[15:01] <SpamapS> bug #708080
[15:02] <SpamapS> oooo
[15:02] <SpamapS> cmake puts pretty colors on the screen when it has a tty
[15:20] <robbiew> zul: any resolution on the likewise-open package home?
[15:20] <zul> robbiew: just uploading it now
[15:20] <robbiew> heh...ok
[15:20] <robbiew> so I guess we took it back from desktop
[15:20] <robbiew> :P
[15:20] <zul> i guess..
[15:21] <zul> the likewise people have already emailed me once
[15:22]  * robbiew suspects it's easier for us to just keep it
[15:22] <zul> although we dont have a way to test it to see if the bug fixes is actually valid though
[15:23] <zul> robbiew: our old way went to racksapce ;)
[15:23] <robbiew> heh
[15:24] <zul> its still broken on arm afaik though
[15:25] <hggdh> zul: morning -- I grabbed what I think is the SRU track(er|ing) from p.c.c. Now... what is what there? ;-)
[15:25] <zul> hggdh: hold on lemme finish what im doing here
[15:25] <hggdh> zul: roger wilco
[15:32] <raubvogel> What would you use to monitor power supplies so you will, for instance, be warned when one of them decided to go fishing?
[15:39] <pmatulis> raubvogel: talking about UPS?
[15:40] <Kiall> holy crap - what happened to the PPA build queue! 4 days??
[15:40] <raubvogel> pmatulis, actually redundant power supplies
[15:41] <bigjools> there's a rebuild going on
[15:41] <raubvogel> I have each connected to a different UPS, but would be nice to be told if one of those power supplies went on strike
[15:42] <Patrickdk> normally what ipmi is for
[15:42] <Patrickdk> or whatever other method your mb uses to talk to the psu
[15:47] <RoyK> Patrickdk: huh?
[15:47] <RoyK> raubvogel: it usually depends on which type of UPS it is
[15:48] <raubvogel> RoyK, I am actually talking about the power supply in the computer, not the UPS the power supply is connected to.
[15:49] <RoyK> raubvogel: that is - I remember now, there's a set of tools for that http://www.networkupstools.org/
[15:49] <RoyK> apt-get install nut
[15:49] <RoyK> and there are separate tools for APC UPSes
[15:50] <RoyK> oh - ic
[15:50] <RoyK> sorry
[15:50] <Patrickdk> ipmi :)
[15:50] <Patrickdk> if your motherboard supports it, and the psu is connected to the mb for it
[15:51] <Patrickdk> atleast that is how all my servers monitor their psu's
[15:51] <RoyK> I would think a system with redundant power should support that :P
[15:51] <Patrickdk> depends on if the system was bought, or build youself :)
[15:51] <Patrickdk> and built cheaply :)
[15:51] <raubvogel> These are supermicro servers
[15:52]  * RoyK has never built a system with redundant power
[15:52] <Patrickdk> supermicro uses ipmi for all their stuff :)
[15:52] <raubvogel> Coo
[15:52] <RoyK> raubvogel: then it should be quite possible
[15:52] <raubvogel> Cool
[15:52]  * RoyK has a bunch of SM servers
[15:52] <raubvogel> and what should I use to monitor the ipmi stuff?
[15:52] <Patrickdk> dunno
[15:52] <Patrickdk> I use munin to monitor most of it
[15:52] <raubvogel> I like supermicro stuff a lot. They drive trays are kinda wimpy but I've never had one die on me
[15:53] <Patrickdk> and my own scripts to watch for failures
[15:55] <RoyK> raubvogel: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IPMI
[15:57] <dominicdinada> I am having a very hard time to get lamp to function properly, I had it installed correctly for 2 years and my problems all started when i added php5-pgsql extension it wiped all my access to mysql, with no drivers being being usable, so from that point i have attempted to remove and reinstall lamp 5 times all failing @ 77%
[15:59] <dominicdinada> when i force quit it for the final time it left aptitude locked so i ran the commands to finish configuring all aptitude commands and they completed successfully but upon safe-upgrade and a reboot there is no mysql, php or anything running from the lamp package, I check the error logs and the only warnings i am getting is that mcrypt and the so's for pgsql are missing but it does not say it failed to load ? Wh
[15:59] <dominicdinada> ere do i go from here
[16:03] <gobbe> what did you try to install? (i mean what packages)
[16:06] <dominicdinada> tasksel  -- lamp
[16:06] <dominicdinada> besides that just the php5-pgsql packages
[16:08] <dominicdinada> still going through all of the logs
[16:08] <dominicdinada> but i check all the apache/mysql logs and besides 3 warnings it provides no answer
[16:10] <ssureshot> anyone know of a ppa that has samba4 and openldap working?
[16:10] <gobbe> dominicdinada: can you copy-paste output of the command to pastebin
[16:12] <dominicdinada> gobbe: the command ?
[16:13] <dominicdinada> !upgrade
[16:13] <gobbe> dominicdinada: tasksel
[16:14] <dominicdinada> sudo tasksel then check the box on lamp
[16:15] <dominicdinada> it failed and left aptitude locked so i forced aptitude to finish configuring all failed packages
[16:16] <gobbe> dominicdinada: sudo tasksell install lamp
[16:16] <gobbe> dominicdinada: and copy-paste output
[16:18] <dominicdinada> gobbe: what is the link for auto pasting output i have it installed but have not needed help in so long i forgot how to pastie it
[16:18] <dominicdinada> as for this command it just returned a prompt and did nothing no messages
[16:18] <dominicdinada> !pastie
[16:19] <dominicdinada> !pasteit
[16:19] <genii-around> !pastebinit
[16:19] <dominicdinada> ty
[16:21] <gobbe> hmmh
[16:21] <gobbe> so it doesnt give any errors?
[16:22] <dominicdinada> no it does not it returns nothing just a prompt
[16:23] <dominicdinada> like i said it failed yesterday, i killed the process, and went to see what i could do today and dpkg was still locked so i forced aptitude to finish configuring all packages
[16:24] <dominicdinada> via sudo dpkg --configure -a
[16:24] <gobbe> ok
[16:24] <dominicdinada> which successfully finished all packages with no errors at that time
[16:24] <gobbe> you could try also to remove all packages and reinstall it
[16:24] <dominicdinada> 6th time is the charm ?
[16:25] <gobbe> so have you removed it earlier?
[16:25] <gobbe> or just installed it again
[16:25] <dominicdinada> removed
[16:25] <dominicdinada> via tasksel
[16:25] <gobbe> you could also try to install it from terminal "sudo apt-get install apache2 apache2-mpm-prefork apache2-utils apache2.2-common libapache2-mod-php5 libapr1 libaprutil1 libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libmysqlclient15off libnet-daemon-perl libplrpc-perl libpq5 mysql-client-5.0 mysql-common mysql-server mysql-server-5.0 php5-common php5-mysql"
[16:25] <gobbe> and see what happens
[16:26] <dominicdinada> gobbe: sorry i know i could but i always have troubles with that package
[16:26] <dominicdinada> those packages......
[16:26] <gobbe> what kind of trouble?
[16:26] <dominicdinada> tasksel lamp nicely installs everything and does most of the leg work
[16:26] <gobbe> that should be the list of packages tasksel does
[16:27] <gobbe> tasksel however outputs much less information than apt-get
[16:27] <dominicdinada> gobbe: and aptitude doesnt do anything further than placing the packages on the computer
[16:28] <gobbe> but it outputs information in error situations
[16:28] <dominicdinada> where as tasksel does alot of the work setting them up just minor modifications
[16:28] <dominicdinada> an 26 08:35:24 diabolical-fs mysqld[4941]: #007/usr/sbin/mysqld: Character set 'utf8_general_ci'
[16:29] <dominicdinada>  that is an error i did get now that i have been looking through the logs
[16:34] <dominicdinada> Jan 26 08:35:25 diabolical-fs mysqld[4987]: #007/usr/sbin/mysqld: Character set 'utf8_general_ci' is not a compiled character set and is not specified in the '/usr/share/mysql/charsets/Index.xml' file
[16:34] <dominicdinada> Jan 26 08:35:25 diabolical-fs mysqld[4987]: 110126  8:35:25 [ERROR] Aborting
[16:34] <dominicdinada> i think i tracked a little of the problem down
[16:47] <dominicdinada> http://pastebin.com/vF2jtw99
[16:50] <dominicdinada> !app-armor
[16:50] <poningru> suggestion: can we call the alternative install natty lite?
[16:51] <SpamapS> poningru: ++
[16:51] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: actually thats the minimal install ;)
[16:51] <poningru> err right minimal
[16:52] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: the apparmor bits are just letting you know that the profile's been loaded..
[16:53] <dominicdinada> not when it is flooding my kernel and syslogs somethings going on
[16:53] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: whats flooding your logs is that mysqld is crashing on startup
[16:53] <dominicdinada> i check launchpad and there is a bug, but
[16:53] <dominicdinada> check the logs crashing at startup = every other second
[16:54] <dominicdinada> 10,000 lines worth
[16:54] <SpamapS> yeah, mysqld takes a while to start back up after a crash
[16:54] <jdstrand> there are no apparmor denials. apparmor should not be to blame
[16:54] <SpamapS> just long enough where init doesn't think its thrashing
[16:54] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: the UTF-8 thing is your most likely culprit
[16:55] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: i do agree however even after i commented out those lines and attempted to reinstall the 7th time
[16:55] <dominicdinada> still no where
[16:56] <dominicdinada> since when is is utf8_general_ci not a valid language either
[16:56] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: commented out what lines? Thats coming from your schema.
[16:56] <dominicdinada> even still this explains nothing of why both apache and php are failing
[16:56] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: because your app needs mysql? ;)
[16:57] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: no and to display that i will rename my mail index page to show apache isn't working
[16:59] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: that message is rather confusing since utf8_general_ci should in fact be compiled in
[17:00] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: exactly and frankly i got sick and tired of seeing latin_swedish_1 when everysingle server in the western world and then even more all be using utf8
[17:00] <dominicdinada> seeing and modifying
[17:01] <dominicdinada> correct apache or php are not running either
[17:01] <SpamapS> nobody's saying you can't usae utf8 :)
[17:01] <SpamapS> its something else I'm sure
[17:03] <JamesPage> zul: bug 705429 is now ready for your review - thanks
[17:04] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: i did not see the instructions for the dist-upgrade on the community page
[17:05] <zul> JamesPage: will do
[17:05] <JamesPage> zul: ta
[17:15] <dominicdinada> !dist-upgrade
[17:15] <dominicdinada> !upgrade
[17:16] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: do-release-upgrade is preferred over dist-upgrade usually
[17:17] <Pici> dist-upgrades aren't for upgrading to a new release.
[17:18] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: I was told that a dist-upgrade would not upgrade the entire system just all the dependancies, which is incorrect it is a full upgrade no matter how you look at it
[17:18] <SpamapS> dominicdinada: well it won't upgrade the system because it won't change which release its pulling from
[17:20] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: the link and the text from ubottu seem to tell a unclear story but i am ready to give it a try
[17:20] <Pici> You can't be sure that you're getting all your security fixes if you aren't using apt-get dist-upgrade/aptitude full-upgrade.
[17:20] <Pici> dominicdinada: Whats confusing about ubottu's responses? (I can change them)
[17:21] <dominicdinada> Please see !upgrade for the proper way to upgrade to a new version of Ubuntu
[17:21] <dominicdinada> mixing a dist upgrade with that TAG as you have clearly pointed out they are 2 different things totally
[17:21] <Pici> dominicdinada: Thats there because many people think that dist-upgrade will upgrade them to a new release of Ubuntu.
[17:22] <dominicdinada> Pici: that is what Please see !upgrade for the proper way to upgrade to a new version of Ubuntu
[17:22] <Pici> I'll think of a better wording though.
[17:22] <dominicdinada> "A New Version of Ubuntu" to most people would mean I am using 10.04 and a new version would be 10.10
[17:23] <Pici> dominicdinada: Yes.
[17:23] <dominicdinada> aptitude full-upgrade ?
[17:23] <dominicdinada> for the dist-upgrad ?
[17:23] <Pici> aptitude full-ugprade is almost the same thing as apt-get dist-upgrade.  Theres a little difference with package removals, but if you prefer aptitude you can use it instead.
[17:24] <dominicdinada> Pici:  i do prefer aptitude right after I am done reinstalling EBOX :( i will do the upgrade
[17:25]  * dominicdinada hates ebox but webmin doesn't give a clear system picture
[17:31] <lambda_x> does shutting down host send acpi poweroff to kvm virtual hosts or should I be doing it manually?
[17:43] <RoyK> dominicdinada: learn the administration of the system from the command line - it doesn't take to much
[17:49] <dominicdinada> RoyK: i dont know it all but i am learning little by little i will have to fit it into my busy school schedule of cisco, mcsa
[17:49] <dominicdinada> and teaching myself php/javascript
[17:50] <RoyK> dominicdinada: welcome aboard :)
[17:51]  * RoyK installed his first linux box back in 1994 and is still learning :P
[17:51] <gobbe> life is learning
[17:52] <SpamapS> my first one was in 1995 ... Linux Universe ... ran from a CD-ROM and put / on a file inside a VFAT partition so you could try out Linux from a windows box.
[17:52] <dominicdinada> and well any person who knows computers well knows dos, and s2k8 is a steep learning curve hell any MScores since Vista totally changed but Server-Core is dumb
[17:52] <SpamapS> Was such a happy day when I installed Slackware and joined Undernet's #LinuxHelp a few months later.
[17:52]  * SpamapS has been in that channel continuously since.. :)
[17:53] <gobbe> slackware was my first distro also
[17:53] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: we all had redhat and mandrake but i took a break until i had a useless server and laptop given to me with no potential as a windows machine and got back into linux
[17:53] <RoyK> slackware 3.2
[17:53] <RoyK> iirc
[17:53] <gobbe> =)
[17:53] <RoyK> and then to redhat, then debian, then ubuntu
[17:53] <SpamapS> hah Roy, thats my exact progression too :)
[17:53] <gobbe> i'm running redhat on servers mostly
[17:53] <gobbe> and ubuntu on desktops
[17:53] <dominicdinada> not hard to learn just hard to retain so much at once
[17:54] <RoyK> gobbe: we're abandoning redhat these days - no reason to run 'supported' stuff when all you need is on the net, or in the worst case, support from canonical
[17:55] <gobbe> RoyK: most of business software still is not supported on ubuntu :&/
[17:55] <gobbe> like oracle etc
[17:55] <RoyK> gobbe: we just ditched our old backup system for bacula, which works well
[17:55] <dominicdinada> oh and add OSX to the list in 2 weeks when i get the money to buy a netbook ;/
[17:55] <RoyK> gobbe: oracle has its own distro
[17:55] <gobbe> RoyK: which is redhat + their kernel
[17:56] <SpamapS> Bacula is amazing
[17:56] <RoyK> yeah
[17:56] <gobbe> RoyK: but it's also supported in redhat
[17:56] <gobbe> RoyK: and not supported in ubuntu :)
[17:56] <RoyK> I know - we have a couple of servers on oracle
[17:56] <SpamapS> Found that at OSCON 2005 .. along with memcached. Truly a productive conference visit. :)
[17:56] <RoyK> but then, with Oracle's pricing havoc, we've ended up running that on windoze machines
[17:57] <RoyK> trying to move to postgresql these days
[17:57] <RoyK> but with current applications written for oracle, I guess it'll take a few years
[17:58] <gobbe> my customers are mostly huge enterprise-customers, so oracle etc is quite standard there
[17:58]  * SpamapS has thankfully been able to avoid oracle for the most part :-D
[17:58] <gobbe> like in linux-world it is redhat (or in some cases suse)
[17:58] <dominicdinada> all my troubles came from pqsql but i heard it is a nice setup
[17:58] <RoyK> gobbe: redhat was the standard at work when I started - I changed that :P
[17:59] <gobbe> RoyK: well, there it might be possible, in my customer's it is not
[17:59] <gobbe> RoyK: because software they run is not supported in ubuntu :)
[18:00] <gobbe> i run my own servers on ubuntu
[18:00] <zul> Daviey: can you cover the SRU meeting for me on monday
[18:02] <RoyK> hm.. I forgot about QFS/SAM
[18:04] <RoyK> but it looks like that project is rather dead
[18:17] <RoyK> http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html
[18:28] <Tohuw> Has anyone worked out a cost benefit analysis for using EC2 for high availability applications? I'd be interested in some insights, especially if you decided in favor.
[18:29] <SAM____> HI EVERYONE THIS IS SAM
[18:29] <SpamapS> Tohuw: the whole reason for the cloud's existence is to have applications that spread accross multiple nodes .. presumably for HA.
[18:29] <SpamapS> (and I include performance in availability)
[18:30] <SAM____> can anyone tell me if this is correct config for bind please?
[18:30] <SAM____> http://paste.ubuntu.com/559133/
[18:30] <SAM____> can anyone tell me if this is correct config for bind please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/559133/ my website is not resolving www.mydomain.com
[18:30] <Daviey> zul, yes, that should be fine
[18:31] <zul> Daviey: thanks!
[18:32] <SpamapS> zul: so I think actually I can still ship libmysqld-pic
[18:32] <zul> SpamapS: how do you figure?
[18:32] <SpamapS> zul: it still uses the same public headers as libmysqlclient
[18:33] <zul> SpamapS: bah
[18:33] <SAM____> hello?
[18:33] <SpamapS> so while it is, itself, unversioned, its parent library/API/ABI are.
[18:34] <Tohuw> SpamapS: sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm considering the cost factors of hosting an instance of Ubuntu Cloud Server using EC2 versus, say hosting a vps running Ubuntu Server. From a pure cost perspective, it seems a cloud instance price stacks up quickly with EC2, seeing as how I seem to need the instance itself, EBS, etc. et al ad infinitum.
[18:34] <SpamapS> zul: I may ship the headers anyway in /usr/include/mysql-5.5 tho
[18:35] <SpamapS> Tohuw: the reason to use the cloud is usually agility, not cost.
[18:35] <zul> SpamapS: ack
[18:36] <SpamapS> zul: do you recall where norbert hangs out on IRC? I may want to ping him for an opinion.
[18:36] <zul> SpamapS: oftc maybe on #debian-devel
[18:38] <Tohuw> SpamapS: that makes sense. Is it reasonable to assume that running an instance of Ubuntu Cloud Server on EC2 will, very generally, present a higher cost than a traditional infrastructure of similar resources (processing power/memory/disk space, etc.)?
[18:40] <hallyn> zul: pls keep me in the loop if/when you play with lxc in uec, using the same images with lxcguest for kvm and lxc
[18:40] <SpamapS> Tohuw: EC2 nodes are not known for their performance.. again, the only real reason is that you don't have to wait to get a new server.
[18:40] <zul> hallyn: of course i was working on it right now
[18:41] <SpamapS> Tohuw: so even if an EC2 node costs 5x what it would cost to have a similarly capable physical host.. the fact that you can have it *now* is worth it if your business has to scale up and down rapidly.
[18:41] <hallyn> zul: rockin'.  dying to know if it works for you :)
[18:41] <zul> hallyn: so am i :)
[18:43] <SAM____> can anyone tell me if this is correct config for bind please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/559133/ my website is not resolving www.mydomain.com but resolves mydomain.com
[18:45] <gobbe> SAM____: you mean that www.mydomain.com is not working?
[18:45] <SAM____> no sorry
[18:45] <gobbe> SAM____: it's not proper file
[18:45] <Tohuw> SpamapS: excellent explanations, thank you.
[18:45] <SAM____> can anyone tell me if this is correct config for bind please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/559133/ my website is not resolving www.unrealkillers.com.com but resolves unrealkillers.com
[18:46] <gobbe> SAM____: don't repeat
[18:46] <gobbe> SAM____: file is not proper
[18:46] <SAM____> gobbe it is resolving unrealkillers.com not www.unrealkillers.com
[18:46] <SAM____> so what should i have instead?
[18:46] <gobbe> SAM____: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BIND9ServerHowto
[18:58] <slicslak> hey guys, just fired up a rs cloud ubuntu instance.  when creating new users the default shell is sh
[18:58] <slicslak> i know how to change it per user, but would like to change the default for new users going forward
[18:58] <slicslak> is this a setting in /etc somehwere?
[18:59] <SpamapS> slicslak: grep 'DSHELL' /etc/adduser.conf
[18:59] <gobbe> yep, change DSHELL-variable
[19:00] <slicslak> ok, and that's set to /bin/bash.  wierd.  ok thx guys
[19:01] <dominicdinada> still dont get why the
[19:01] <gobbe> so that is bash and you run adduser and new user comes with sh?
[19:01] <dominicdinada> Server is not running
[19:02] <SAM____> can anyone tell me if this is correct config for bind please? http://paste.ubuntu.com/559133/ my website is not resolving www.unrealkillers.com but resolves unrealkillers.com
[19:02] <gobbe> SAM____: stop repeating
[19:02] <gobbe> SAM____: i told you earlier that it is not
[19:02] <dominicdinada> i compaired all the server configs to a Fresh install and all the configurations are identical in apache2.conf/php.ini   sites-enabled etc
[19:02] <SAM____> which config isnt correct
[19:03] <SAM____> bc i looked at the config with the howto and i cant see my mistake
[19:03] <gobbe> SAM____: and i gave you link to howto
[19:03] <dominicdinada> EVERYTHING yet when i go to the address it sends the html file and a download :(
[19:03] <gobbe> SAM____: well, it's not even close to what it shows in howto
[19:03] <gobbe> SAM____: start from the line "Also, create an A record for ns.example.com the name server in this example: "
[19:04] <gobbe> SAM____: there's short example
[19:05] <dominicdinada>  !upstart
[19:06] <gobbe> SAM____: there's also command named-checkzone to help you
[19:06] <SAM____> yeah when i run that it says no config errors...
[19:07] <SAM____> No errors were found in the BIND configuration file /etc/bind/named.conf or referenced zone files.
[19:08] <gobbe> zone unrealkillers.com/IN: loading from master file testi failed: bad dotted quad
[19:08] <gobbe> zone unrealkillers.com/IN: not loaded due to errors.
[19:08] <SpamapS> hrm.. why does mysql use .files instead of .install files.. :-/
[19:08] <gobbe> you run named-checkconf
[19:08] <gobbe> not checkzone
[19:16] <slicslak> gobbe, that's correct.  I found it though, I use useradd, and it's config file is at /etc/default/useradd
[19:17] <gobbe> slicslak: ok :)
[19:17] <gobbe> slicslak: that's why i asked it :-)
[19:17] <slicslak> obviously i should have just rtfm'd to begin w/  ;)
[19:29] <chovynz> how do I find out what sort of php and apache my server is running? What's the command from terminal
[19:29] <chovynz> sort = version
[19:40] <gobbe> php --version
[19:40] <thesheff17> what is the name of the xserver ubuntu irc chat room?
[19:40] <gobbe> or just check from apt-cache show <package>
[19:41] <chovynz> did I do a bad thing by writing apt-get upgrade php?
[19:41] <gobbe> it upgrades php-package
[19:42] <chovynz> hmm
[19:42] <chovynz> seems to be doing more than just updating php
[19:42] <gobbe> hmmh
[19:43] <chovynz> eg Unpacking replacement libk5crypto3 ...
[19:43] <chovynz> Preparing to replace libgssapi-krb5-2 1.8.1+dfsg-5 (using .../libgssapi-krb5-2_1.8.1+dfsg-5ubuntu0.2_i386.deb) ...
[19:43] <gobbe> true
[19:43] <gobbe> it upgrades everything
[19:43] <chovynz> uh.. ok. oops?
[19:47] <SAM___> can someone help me restrict recursive DNS server please
[19:47] <RoyK> chovynz: imho upgrading should be done for all packages, regularly
[19:47] <gobbe> yep
[19:48] <slicslak> ok, this is wierd.  i added the group web with groupadd, and it is showing in /etc/group w/ id 1000
[19:49] <slicslak> when I chgrp web foo however, the group ownership remains as 4096
[19:50] <chovynz> RoyK: I agreed, however I only installed the server 3 days ago
[19:51] <chovynz> so what would the command be to upgrade php only?
[19:52] <RoyK> just upgrade everything - apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:52] <gobbe> chovynz: if you installed it from cd it includes old packages
[19:52] <chovynz> oh well it is done now anyway
[19:57] <chovynz> ok, so, I need a little help here. I'm trying to setup my own home mediawiki. I'm logged in remotely. What are the tools I need to make, "making tools"and adminstering mysql, php and other things on my server? I'm used to GUI, so this is new territory for me in Command line.
[19:58] <chovynz> i.e. I want to make new tables and fields in mysql
[19:58] <chovynz> how would I go about it in Command line?
[20:00] <dominicdinada> gobbe: i noticed in my envars files there is alot missing from the envars on the server
[20:01] <dominicdinada> gobbe: for instance the run, and lock dirs
[20:01] <dominicdinada> export APACHE_RUN_DIR=/var/run/apache2$SUFFIX
[20:03] <chovynz> I know reboot-fu!
[20:03] <chovynz> soon my server-fu will be strong
[20:08] <SAM___> can someone help me restrict recursive DNS please
[20:14] <yann2> hello - I am thinking of using lsyncd on a very large folder (maybe 100k subfolders). I understand lsyncd uses inotify, and uses one inotify watch per directory. I understand I would need to edit /proc/sys/fs/inotify/max_user_watches  ? Would it be reasonnable to set if very high - what kind of performance hit should I expect?
[20:33] <SAM___> can someone help me restrict recursive DNS please
[20:34] <Fidelix> Hey guys. My server's nameserver resolution is incredibly slow. It's taking 18 seconds!
[20:36] <SAM___> fidelix have u setup restriced dns?
[20:36] <SAM___> non recursive
[20:36] <chovynz> any clues on how to log everything that happens on my server?
[20:36] <Fidelix> SAM___, what is that?
[20:37] <gobbe> SAM___: you are repeating your lines everytime, while waiting someone to help it would be nice to use google or browse forums (because for example to this case, there is howto)
[20:48] <hallyn> SpamapS: i gather based on other examples that if i source a file in a pre-start script section of an upstart job, that any environment taken from that will remain when actually starting the job?
[20:48] <SpamapS> hallyn: should yes
[20:48] <SpamapS> hallyn: note that this is frowned upon because it slows the boot
[20:51] <hallyn> SpamapS: perhaps then it would be worth installing /etc/default/libvirt-bin.disabled with the package, so that '[-r /etc/default/libvirt-bin && . /etc/default/libvirt-bin ] goes faster in the common case
[20:51] <hallyn> But I'm leaving that to someone else
[20:53] <SpamapS> hallyn: just the stat is slow
[20:53] <SpamapS> hallyn: for libvirt-bin , you have to do it
[20:53] <SpamapS> hallyn: actually,  you shouldn't be adding *new* default files
[20:54] <SpamapS> hallyn: but if an upstart job was converted from an init.d script, you need to keep sourcing the file to pick up config changes.
[20:54] <SpamapS> hallyn: I had this discussion w/ slangasek yesterday.. there needs to be a clear policy about this.
[20:54] <dominicdinada> SpamapS: ugh quick dumb question
[20:55] <hallyn> SpamapS: yes, and we don't care about a 'slow' stat when starting libvirt-bin.  it won't slow down other things
[20:56] <SpamapS> hallyn: the issue is trying to keep the hard disk head from flying around the disk statting files.
[20:56] <dominicdinada> Pici: ok no permissions on files, or the www-data user but i gave ownership of a few files to www-data and now it will run but i never changed the primary user / editor user settings from running files
[20:57] <SpamapS> hallyn: one idea is to have a postinst helper that will convert values in /etc/default files into env's in the upstart job file.
[20:58] <hallyn> SpamapS: another idea is to define a nice event that says 'now boot-uncrucial services can start'
[20:58] <hallyn> SpamapS: waht i don't like about your idea is that it makes us all the more different from other distros
[20:58] <SpamapS> hallyn: that is defined, its 'runlevel 2'
[20:59] <SpamapS> hallyn: /etc/default files are deprecated .. so we're already more different.
[20:59] <hallyn> SpamapS: ok, libvirt-bin starts on runlevel 2.
[21:00] <hallyn> dude.  depracated in favor of what, custom upstart jobs?
[21:00] <hallyn> that's going to kill us in awhile with upgrades
[21:00] <SpamapS> right, hence the idea that we would deprecate the config file by sucking it into the upstart job
[21:01] <SpamapS> The feeling is that upstart jobs are simple enough that merging won't be a problem.
[21:01] <hallyn> hold on a sec, i need to find a quotes file to paste that into
[21:02] <SpamapS> Haha yeah I don't exactly agree with it.
[21:02] <SpamapS> Some of them are extremely complex
[21:02] <hallyn> anyway, i'd have the fix for the libvirt one proposed by now but bzr co is taking FOREVER
[21:02] <SpamapS> the other thought is the override files will be a good place for this, but thats vapor ware until its finished.
[21:03] <SpamapS> bzr co ? I always use bzr branch
[21:05] <hallyn> i thought the only difference was one stayed bound
[21:05] <SpamapS> dunno
[21:07] <robbiew> smoser: so do we want the aws guys opening bugs for issues they have?
[21:08] <robbiew> seems like it would make more sense in terms of working the issue
[21:09] <smoser> yeah.  ben and one of the other guys have launchpad ids
[21:13] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: howdy! one quick powernap doubt. The script to reduce the frequency should default to "performance" when in full power (instead of "ondemand"), or should we keep it as is?
[21:14] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: cause to really make useof the script it would have to be a combination of performance/powersave, though the user could manually edit the script to define that
[21:17] <soren> SpamapS, hallyn: Yes, the difference between co and branch is whether or not it's bound or not afterwards.
[21:21] <SpamapS> soren: bound to what?
[21:21] <soren> SpamapS: The place from whence you checked it out.
[21:22] <soren> SpamapS: Basically, before you commit, it makes sure that you're up-to-date with the remote branch, and your commit gets pushed to the remove immediately, too.
[21:22] <SpamapS> AH
[21:22] <SpamapS> so its centralized vs. distributed with co
[21:22] <soren> Yeah.
[21:22] <SpamapS> boooo ;)
[21:22] <SpamapS> no wonder I was confusing Daviey
[21:23] <SpamapS> with my merge's in my pushes
[21:23] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i think powernap should record the cpu governor state before changing it
[21:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: and then set it back to whatever it was before
[21:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: so that if someone choose to pin their cpu on any one of performance|ondemand|powersave|conservative
[21:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: and we force it to powersave
[21:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: when powernap puts the machine asleep
[21:24] <soren> SpamapS: Sorry, my explanation wasn't entirely technically accurate. On commit, it gets pushed to the remote first, actually. Only if that succeeds does you commit get applied locally.
[21:24] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: ok, I was thinking of that too. Where should we record it though?
[21:24] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: when we wake it up, we should set it to whatever it was before
[21:25] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: hmmm
[21:25] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: let me check the FHS
[21:25] <soren> SpamapS: So you can't commit stuff that ends up not being pushable.
[21:25] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: but i'm thinking /var/lib/powernap or /var/tmp/powernap
[21:26] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: /var/run/powernap
[21:26] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: if we change the governor, and we reboot, the changes are kept, or are they rolled back to original?
[21:26] <SpamapS> soren: Cool. I just never saw bzr as a centralized system, even though I know its useful for that too. :)
[21:26] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: well ... /var/run is cleared on boot
[21:26] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: /var/lib and /var/tmp are not
[21:27] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i'm thinking that's not a setting that one would expect to persist across boots
[21:27] <soren> SpamapS: It's useful in a couple of cases.
[21:27] <SpamapS> Haha, I just noticed this.. mysql supports the ultimate hippie language..
[21:27] <SpamapS> 0000000000539e20 g    DO .data	00000000000000b0  Base        my_charset_utf32_esperanto_uca_ci
[21:27] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: so i think it's safe in /var/run/powernap/cpu_governor.saved
[21:28] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: gonna try that now. If it persists then, I'll save it in /var/lib, if it doesn not persist, then /var/run should be enough
[21:28] <SpamapS> soren: the best example for usefulness I can think of off the top of my head is what we were doing at the recent sprint/rally .. 3 people all working on a branch feverishly.
[21:28] <soren> SpamapS: One is the case where people are used to this workflow and want an easy migration path to bzr.. But really, I think most people use it to avoid the case where they pull, fix up conflicts or whatnot, commit, and find someone else committed in the mean time.
[21:29] <soren> SpamapS: ...and then have to uncommit and fix or merge and push.
[21:29] <soren> SpamapS: Yes, that's exactly the sort of case, where it's useful. Lots of time can be saved. I used to do it for our Eucalyptus packaging branch.
[21:33] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: cool
[21:34] <hallyn> jdstrand: do you have an opinion on bug 708172?
[21:36]  * hallyn biab
[21:37] <hallyn> kirkland: ^ you wrote the upstart job and your comment implies you really wanted it like that, so please feel free to comment the bug nacking the fix (and marking  bug as invalid/won'tfix :)
[21:38] <dominicdinada> finally got it !!!!!
[21:38] <kirkland> hallyn: looking ....
[21:38] <SpamapS> hallyn: good to know that lucid does in fact install the upstart job.. so it only breaks hardy -> lucid then
[21:39] <SpamapS> hallyn: I don't think a comment in an upstart job is enough of a warning though. :p
[21:41] <hallyn> SpamapS: but it's not up to libvirt to give the loud warning, then
[21:41] <kirkland> hallyn: looking at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/natty/libvirt/upstart-include-default/revision/112 ...
[21:42] <jdstrand> hallyn: for lucid it feels like you should update the upstart job
[21:42] <hallyn> so if we feel that, systemically, we don't want to include /etc/default, then it is wrong-headed to demand packages warn about it
[21:42] <jdstrand> hallyn: however for natty that should probably be handled better-- ie with /etc/default/libvirt-bin removed
[21:43] <hallyn> jdstrand: that makes sense.  and maverick, same as lucid?
[21:43] <jdstrand> hallyn: ideally, yes
[21:44] <kirkland> SpamapS: okay, update me on upstart-ness ... what's the current recommendation on /etc/default/* settings?
[21:44] <hallyn> all right, thanks.  so first i'll push natty fix removing the /etc/default file.  Then when that's fix releases i'll sru a fix to include the /etc/default file.  but...  does that mean that upgrade of libvirt in natty has to warn about existing /etc/default file?
[21:44] <hallyn> cause that gets ugly
[21:44] <kirkland> SpamapS: hallyn: fwiw, when I added that comment about "just update the exec line here", I copied that verbatim from the /etc/init/ssh.conf upstart script
[21:44] <hallyn> kirkland: ah :)
[21:44] <jdstrand> kirkland: SpamapS may know better these days, but I can say that upstart is suppose to not use things in /etc/default
[21:45] <kirkland> SpamapS: hallyn: and I did that following cjwatson and Keybuk's lead
[21:45] <jdstrand> kirkland: rather, it was originally intended that way
[21:45] <SpamapS> kirkland: the recommendation is that they will slow down the boot a bit by busying the disk system.. and so they should be avoided. However they're clearly necessary.
[21:45] <hallyn> ok, having started up the discussion, i'm afraid now i need to leave for a bit in the middle of it.  biab.  will catch up
[21:46] <SpamapS> kirkland: you did the right thing.. there is no consensus.
[21:46] <kirkland> i think hallyn just farted in the elevator, and then exited
[21:46] <SpamapS> The reality is that we should have put something in Lucid's release notes, but did not... so we are breaking all kinds of things on upgrade.
[21:46] <jdstrand> well, the reason why they were created was because of dpkg's conffile handling and that sysv initscripts are conffiles, and that sysv initscripts could get out of hand quickly
[21:47] <jdstrand> upstart is *supposed* to simply that so you don't need extra configuration outside of the job
[21:47] <jdstrand> of course, the job is still a conffile
[21:48] <jdstrand> I maintain a package with an upstart job and something in /etc/default, so take all that with a grain of salt :)
[21:48] <jdstrand> s/simply/simplify/
[21:48] <kirkland> okay, well, i'm thoroughly convinced that we have no idea what we want to do with this :-)
[21:48] <SpamapS> jdstrand: I actually think the right thing to do is to convert these /etc/default's into env lines in the new upstart job.. and use the same vars in the same places.
[21:48] <SpamapS> But that breaks w/ debian policy which says not to touch conffiles in maintainer scripts. :-/
[21:49] <jdstrand> SpamapS: yes, that is what I hope will happen with libvirt
[21:49] <SpamapS> And if we're going to do that, we really should provide a debhelper tool so people don't have to reinvent it every time.
[21:49] <jdstrand> SpamapS: well, putting them in there and adjusting via maintainer scripts are two different things :)
[21:50] <jdstrand> but, I would argue that if people are messing with it that much then perhaps it shouldn't be a conffile at all
[21:50] <SpamapS> jdstrand: we can only put the defaults in there during the package conversion. On installation, we should respect the values in the existing config file. I believe actually thats allowed by the debian policy .. if an existing conffile is already modified, we can carry that forward.
[21:50] <jdstrand> (ie, there is no sane default-- one of the criteria for making it a conffile)
[21:50] <SpamapS> anyway, I also seem to have caught whiff of hallyn's emission and will need to carry on w/ this later too
[21:51] <jdstrand> it will be a tricky upgrade path, surely
[21:51] <kirkland> jdstrand: SpamapS: hallyn: should we discuss this further, perhaps in a meeting or something?
[21:52] <kirkland> i suspect we need to get a policy in place around this
[21:52] <kirkland> i personally have been very conflicted about what to do with this
[21:52] <jdstrand> it is difficult because we start with Debian's packaging
[21:52] <kirkland> i don't really like the smartass comment in line in the upstart job (edit the exec line here)
[21:52] <kirkland> but that's the only route i was given at the time
[21:53] <jdstrand> it is a viable route
[21:53] <jdstrand> especially for an LTS
[21:53] <jdstrand> tbh, and this may be sacrilege, I wonder a bit why libvirt really needs an upstart job
[21:53] <jdstrand> *shrug*
[21:55] <kirkland> jdstrand: you mean, you think it would be better as an init script?
[21:55] <jdstrand> kirkland: I mean the benefits of having libvirt upstartified are not clear to me
[21:55] <kirkland> Inquisitor!  Inquisitor!  Please draw and quarter jdstrand immediately!!!!
[21:55] <kirkland> :-)
[21:56] <jdstrand> heh
[21:56] <jdstrand> some things clearly benefit-- eg you want it to start as early as possible or before networking, etc, etc
[21:57] <kirkland> jdstrand: so if the only reason some people are opposed to sourcing those default files is boot speed, then i'm not convinced at all that that's a good reason for server upstart jobs
[21:57] <jdstrand> sysv initscripts not being supported is certainly a good reason
[21:57] <jdstrand> kirkland: no, that isn't a good reason imho
[21:57] <kirkland> jdstrand: agreed
[21:57] <jdstrand> not for libvirt
[21:58] <jdstrand> and libvirt can start as late as you want in the boot process too...
[21:58] <jdstrand> who cares?
[21:58] <kirkland> jdstrand: and personally, i think we should give people a way to add daemon options by editing a configuration file, without causing dpkg conflicts in a conffile
[21:58] <kirkland> ie, editing upstart jobs directly
[21:58] <jdstrand> kirkland: I tend to agree. and that is exactly why ufw does that
[21:58] <kirkland> jdstrand: that goes for libvirt, sshd, and others
[21:59] <jdstrand> (though, ufw does it a bit differently)
[21:59] <jdstrand> sshd possibly could be argued for
[21:59] <jdstrand> since it is so ubiquitous, but, ehh
[22:02] <jdstrand> still, ufw is in more Ubuntu installs than sshd, and it sources something from /etc/default
[22:04] <kirkland> jdstrand: you rebel
[22:09] <kirkland> jdstrand: SpamapS: hallyn: i think we should bring a proposal to ubuntu-devel@ and ubuntu-server@ mailing lists
[22:09] <kirkland> jdstrand: SpamapS: hallyn: asking for a policy to be agreed upon
[22:12] <b0ot> I have been searching everywhere for something that can do this: I need a media server that can take a variety of inputs (live video cameras, rtp/rtsp streams, and video files), archive the live video feeds to disk, while also providing a variety of outputs (multicast rtp video feeds for the live streams, and rtp/rtsp video feeds for the archived video/other video files) I also want the ability to do transcoding as the bandwidth in some parts of my networ
[22:12] <b0ot> k is quite limited, (1.2 Mbs) while in other parts is around 80 Mbs. So I need to be able to transcode easily. And I would like a multi user web based system to control when you would want a stream etc.
[22:12] <b0ot> Any suggestions?
[22:21] <jdstrand> kirkland: I'm not sure what policy would be in place. it seems sort of an individual choice. It does tend to make some sense to have an /etc/default/foo for server items that won't adversely affect boot performance
[22:21] <jdstrand> but let's see what the other guys have to say
[22:21] <JFo> kirkland, did you happen to have any bugs (that we hadn't yet discussed) for the kernel team list?
[22:22] <kirkland> JFo: hmm
[22:22] <kirkland> JFo: not that i know of?
[22:22] <JFo> ok, just ping me if you should encounter any :-)
[22:22] <JFo> thanks bro
[22:26] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: okay, i'm testing powernap now
[22:28] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: cool :). Will finish the script in a bit too
[22:28] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: wow
[22:28] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: this is awesome!
[22:29] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: I assume that it is working great :)
[22:29] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: wol7 monitor -> working great
[22:29] <Fidelix> Hey guys. My server's nameserver resolution is incredibly slow. It's taking 18 seconds!
[22:30] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: cool!! I think we should make powerwake support port 9 too!
[22:30] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: wol9 monitor -> working great
[22:30] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: ptmx monitor -> working great :-)
[22:32] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: :)
[22:34] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: dude, we are cooking
[22:34] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: powernap is finally getting to what i've always wanted it to be :-)
[22:34] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: you da man
[22:36] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: I'm glad you like it!! it is indeed pretty cool!
[22:37] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: i'm releasing this as is now
[22:37] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: keep on trucking, but i'm ready to see this in natty!
[22:38] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland: cool!!
[23:04] <Brdavs> !
[23:04] <Brdavs> lxc seriously stinls
[23:04] <Brdavs> stinks
[23:04] <hallyn> pooh pooh
[23:05] <binaryhat> when i do 'sudo restart nmbd
[23:05] <binaryhat> ' i get sudo restart nmbd
[23:05] <binaryhat> crap
[23:06] <binaryhat> restart: Job failed to start
[23:06] <Brdavs> whad did you expect to get?
[23:06] <Brdavs> ah
[23:06] <binaryhat> to start
[23:07] <binaryhat> so why no nmbd?
[23:07] <Brdavs> if anyone is interested - I have narrowed down 3 packages that screwe up 10.4 lxc container when upgraded
[23:08] <Brdavs> is nmbd upstream? Can you do "restart smbd" when you are logged in as root?
[23:08] <yann2> binaryhat, logs?
[23:09] <hallyn> Brdavs: which packages? If you use the newest lxc from my ppa, i would hope those would be innocuous now.
[23:09] <binaryhat> my share is accessible by ip but not name yann2
[23:09] <hallyn> (but, drat, can't really chat right now, sorry)
[23:10] <Brdavs> hallyn: Well, I use 10.10 stock lxc.
[23:10] <binaryhat> yann2, it was accessible b4 i rebooted
[23:10] <Brdavs> And lxc-ubuntu script seems to work, but when I apt-get upgrade
[23:13] <binaryhat> anyone
[23:13] <Brdavs> hallyn: The packages udev, mountall and ifupdown break lxc container
[23:13] <Brdavs> binaryhat: can you "restart nmbd" when you are loggged in as root
[23:14] <binaryhat> Nope
[23:14] <Brdavs> well, then it's not an upstream job.
[23:14] <binaryhat> start: Job failed to start
[23:14] <Brdavs> binaryhat: do this
[23:14] <Brdavs> sudo /etc/init.d/nmbd restart
[23:15] <RoAkSoAx> ki/win 2
[23:15] <RoAkSoAx> jeeeeeeeeeez again for the 10000000000000 time
[23:16] <binaryhat> Brdavs, ather than invoking init scripts through /etc/init.d, use the service(8)
[23:16] <binaryhat> utility, e.g. service nmbd restart
[23:16] <binaryhat> Since the script you are attempting to invoke has been converted to an
[23:16] <binaryhat> Upstart job, you may also use the restart(8) utility, e.g. restart nmbd
[23:17] <binaryhat> sudo service nmbd restart fails too
[23:17] <Brdavs> binaryhat: well, then it might be misconfigured or something...
[23:18] <binaryhat> what is?
[23:20] <Brdavs> binaryhat: nmbd daemon
[23:20] <Brdavs> binaryhat: is it perhaps running, have you started it
[23:20] <binaryhat> suggestions for fixing it?
[23:21] <Brdavs> binaryhat: Have you started it "by hand"
[23:22] <binaryhat> Brdavs, its not running in ps ax
[23:23] <Brdavs> How about "netstat -na"
[23:23] <Brdavs> or netstat -na | grep nmbd
[23:24] <binaryhat> nothing
[23:24] <Brdavs> binaryhat: I am at aloss now
[23:24] <Brdavs> try to run it by hand
[23:25] <Brdavs> see if it complains
[23:25] <binaryhat> syntax?
[23:26] <binaryhat> syntax? Brdavs
[23:28] <Brdavs> /usr/sbin/nmbd
[23:28] <Brdavs> Had to look it up on one of my servers
[23:29] <binaryhat> weird
[23:29] <binaryhat> that worked
[23:30] <binaryhat> so the job is messed up??
[23:32] <Brdavs> binaryhat: Did you play with any init scripts? Seems like somethin's fishy there
[23:34] <binaryhat> Brdavs, never touch it
[23:34] <SpamapS> kirkland: re "i think we should give people a way to add daemon options by editing a configuration file, without causing dpkg conflicts in a conffile" ... upstream agrees, and that feature may land in natty
[23:34] <SpamapS> jdstrand: ^^
[23:34] <SpamapS> hallyn: ^^
[23:36] <Brdavs> binaryhat: wierd then
[23:36] <jdstrand> cool
[23:36] <binaryhat> Brdavs, should i fpaste  /etc/init.d/nmbd ?
[23:36] <kirkland> SpamapS: sweet
[23:36] <Brdavs> binaryhat: what's fpasting
[23:37] <binaryhat> err pastebin
[23:37] <SpamapS> kirkland: there's also a way to do it now without violating either principle, but its a bit hacky. :)
[23:39] <SpamapS> kirkland: basically you'd just export it in rc's starting event
[23:39] <SpamapS> ala BSD style init.. /etc/rc.conf
[23:39] <binaryhat> Brdavs, pastebin
[23:41]  * RoAkSoAx keen to breaking my system today!! Upgrading to natty in my main laptop (finally)
[23:42] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: ^5, welcome to QA :)
[23:43] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: hehe i usually upgrade after alpha2 but with unity I guess things will be worse
[23:45] <binaryhat> Brdavs, in nmbd.conf i have 'start on (local-filesystems and net-device-up IFACE!=lo)'
[23:45] <Brdavs> binaryhat: sorry... kinda buissy here with my LXC anomalies.
[23:46] <Brdavs> Ubuntu server is going nowhere fast.
[23:47] <binaryhat> Brdavs, http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-server-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg34900.html
[23:50] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: anything broken that I should be aware of before hitting the button?
[23:53] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: I have not updated since word of an X upgrade hit 3 days ago
[23:54] <SpamapS> RoAkSoAx: but that may be resolved by now, not sure
[23:54] <RoAkSoAx> SpamapS: uhmmmmmm yeah maybe or maybenot... I'm gonna try in another laptop then lol!!