/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/28/#ubuntu-ops.txt

rwwniles is doing a good job of being slightly wrong about a lot of things :\02:29
Madpilotrww, which channel?02:32
rww#ubuntu02:32
rwwIt's PM time, I think. I can't think of a legitimate way one could think 'xeyes' is a screencasting tool.02:33
* rww does so02:33
Madpilotyeah, just found him.02:33
rwwclaims to be 12 years old and entirely innocent. I vaguely remember Nickserv being limited to >= 13 year olds, but I don't care enough to do something about it.02:39
tonyyarussorww: For servers within the United States, under COPPA, yes.02:40
tonyyarusso(and since it's all mirrored, that means all servers)02:40
marienztechnically nickserv data is just on the system running services, not on every ircd system, but yeah02:41
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)02:52
ubottuFloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)02:53
ubottuFloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)02:56
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit)02:56
jribbrilliant02:56
=== Amaranth__ is now known as Amaranth
rwwBT is an exercise in patience right now :(04:22
tonyyarussorww: Man, you have no IDEA.  It used to be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse.04:30
rwwI do, I remember the complaining ;P04:30
Tm_Tmorning all04:34
rwwsomeone suggested apt-get dist-upgrade in #ubuntu for a valid reason. i suspect the end times are upon us05:15
* mneptok runs a dist-upgrade every day05:34
Tm_TI run daily-upgrade ~every day06:21
Tm_Trww: but nah, that happens occasionally06:21
bazhangits-me-again = meowbuntu?11:08
bazhang its-me-again (~its-me-ag@60.234.143.108)11:11
bazhangthat's odd; the BT lists him/her as banned with the exact same IP address yet they got in nonetheless11:51
jussibazhang: check the banlist, it may have been removed in ubottu's absence12:10
bazhangjussi, okay, will do12:10
bazhangthanks12:10
popey!pm12:15
ubottuPlease ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.12:15
popeyhmmm12:16
Pici#ubuntu looks 'fun' this morning14:00
bazhangcongrats charlie-tca14:37
bazhang:)14:37
charlie-tcaThank you, bazhang.14:38
bazhanggunndawg appears to be wasting people's time14:54
elkysomeone with "dawg" in their nick is wasting time? Say it isn't so...14:55
gpcelky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex3rFlSr33I14:57
elkygpc, hi, i'd rather not wake the person on the other side of this hotel wall14:58
gpcyou don't need to turn it all the way up :)14:58
gpcunless you really like the song14:58
elkyoh. i thought there was actual information involved.15:01
gpcinformation? this early in the day, HA15:04
PiciIs it a full moon?15:07
bazhanghe's in windows claiming to used linux for many years, and ignoring repeated attempts at help in #ubuntu15:08
ikoniabazhang: exactly15:08
* genii-around makes a pot of coffee15:12
gpc2 sugars and lactose free milk please15:13
* genii-around slides gpc a 2 sugar-lactose free milk mug of strong coffee15:15
* gpc sips15:15
bazhangmartian defending using lmgtfy.com in PM refuses to join here. he has been asked several times not to do it again.15:34
genii-aroundIs that some proxy server?15:35
ikoniahe's been warned, thats enough15:35
genii-aroundAh, nvm15:36
topylii have eternal quieted and in pm now. no response yet15:36
bazhangdeath threats in #ubuntu15:37
ikonia?15:37
ikoniawhere15:37
ikoniaahhh topyli's talking to him15:37
bazhang<eternal> ubuntu users are so stupid. we need to kill them right now. they are crap15:37
bazhangjust now in #ubuntu15:38
ikoniayes, I saw it, topyli's on the case15:38
bazhangthought you opped to boot them15:38
topylithanks bazhang, i didn't see #ubuntu15:38
ikoniano, martin, forwarded him here, it is acceptable end of discussion, nope, it's not15:38
bazhangtopyli, I just +q eternal15:39
topylithanks15:39
martianAmazing. Kicked from a channel for using lmgtfy and then disagreeing with vigilante-joe over whether or not it is acceptable. NOT for doing it again, but for disagreeing with him in PM15:39
martianSo, considering what it stands for, would it be equally unacceptable (Period.) if I were to say to someone, "okay, I will go do the search on your behalf I guess"?15:41
Tm_TI wouldn't like to see that kind of attitude at all, if that's what you're asking15:43
ikoniamartian: I forwarded you here to explain to you that it's not really something we encourage, if you chose to google queries for him and give him valid results, that's great, but throwing an automated site at him isn't wlecome15:43
ikoniamartian: I also forwarded you here as when someone was trying to explain to you it's not acceptable, you stated "it is acceptable, period"15:43
ikoniaI didn't want to continue that approach in #ubuntu, hence forwarding you here15:44
ikoniaso the short answer to your question is a.) no lmgtfy is not really acceptable b.) if you chose to google a query, check the results that are valid and recommend one, sure15:44
ikoniamartian: if you're happy to accept that, I'll remove the ban and let you get back to using #ubuntu15:45
martianI still feel that it is acceptable. How about a link to the "I'm feeling lucky" search query? Linking to lmgtfy is meant to not only direct a person to their answer but teach them that answers are out there are are easy to find independentally15:45
ikoniamartian: if you feel it is acceptable or not, is not up for debate, I'm stating the guidelines of the channels policy and usage15:46
ikoniamartian: you can accept it and particpate, or not and don't,15:46
martianYou can do whatever. I'm not going to use it as it's clear that you lot have decided it is a sin, but I still consider it absurd.15:46
ikoniamartian: ok, so if I remove the banforward you'll agree to not point people at lmgtfy ?15:47
martianyes15:47
ikoniagreat15:47
martianIs there any reasoning behind the censorship?15:47
ikoniamartian: I've removed the ban forward, you're welcome to leave this channel and return to #ubuntu15:48
ikoniamartian: yes, it's the channels rules to not point people at random pages, which is what you are doing using lmgtfy15:48
ikoniahence why you are welcome to google for them, find an appropriate link and give it to them15:48
martianSo linking to a search result is equally frowned upon?15:50
ikoniadepends on context, someone asks for a load of themes, listing the search results is pretty reasonable, someone asking how to setup an ldap server, well, that's not a good idea to link to random pages15:50
martianEven in the case of lmgtfy with use of "I'm feeling lucky" and previous research into the search results?15:50
ikoniaa little thought from the person linking can normally work out if this is safe generic or specific detail15:51
ikoniamartian: no, I'm feeling lucky and lmgtfy is not acceptable15:51
ikonialet me make that %101 clear15:51
martianbut clearly not for the reson you stated above :-/15:51
ikoniayes, for the reasons I've stated above, if you chose to accept them or not, is up to you. However, I've made you aware of the channels policy and you've agreed to follow them, so I think we are done15:52
ikoniaI suspect fmax30 is not genuine, I've seen that ident before on a problem user (granted it's quite generic)15:54
bazhang!wastrel-#ubuntu-offtopic15:58
ubottusometimes wastrel cries15:58
gpcand quits irc forever15:59
bazhangthought all the vanity factoids had be cleanzored15:59
bazhangerr been15:59
gpcprobably overlooked16:00
topylimaybe that was considered valuable information!16:00
topyli(or just missed, yeah. i don't know)16:01
gpcforget wastrel16:01
PiciNevar16:01
topylii can't :(16:01
gpcare Pici and topyli authorized bots?16:02
* rww glares at gpc 16:02
topylinah, we're just hard to ged rid of16:02
rwwNEVAH FORGET16:02
gpcwell if we aren't going to forget him then we should remember him properly16:03
gpcoff to Ubuntu Hour.16:03
PiciHave fun16:03
gpcthank you16:04
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
mneptoki love how people discuss "free speech" and "censorship"17:13
mneptokno one said "you cannot recommend LMGTFY." we allow that channel input.17:14
mneptokbut there may be consequences when you say it.17:14
bazhangyeah. I'm not fully convinced he accepted that.17:15
bazhangreferring to it as "censorship"17:15
mneptokno one is stopping anyone from calling my wife names. but i will not be pleasant to deal with afterwards.17:15
bazhangbang!17:16
bazhangscary picture!17:16
mneptokfree speech != say whatever you want wherever you want to whomever you want without ever any consequences17:16
ikoniahe's not said it again, so no problem. If he does, he's been warned17:17
topylimneptok: good analogy. i mostly use the "if you walk into my pub..." analogy17:18
bazhangikonia, thanks for handling that earlier, by the way. I thought it best to step back under the circumstances.17:18
topyliyou know, you can of course say whatever you want to the regulars :)17:18
ikoniano problem17:26
ubottuFloodBotK1 called the ops in #kubuntu-ops-monitor (repeated abuse from Peace-)17:59
* Pici rolls his eyes at jungli giving advice in #freenode18:36
rwwthank goodness, someone uploaded an SRU to maverick-proposed to fix bug 69024819:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 690248 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Maverick) "In Maverick 'About Ubuntu' displays Natty info" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69024819:24
charlie-tcayeah, that one seems to bother people19:29
ikoniais that really "high priority"19:30
rwwfixing an SRU regression that's confusing the heck out of end users? should be, imho.19:33
ikoniaI don't think it's high,19:33
macoin maverick? weird19:33
mneptokUbut Abountu19:34
rwwMore interesting questions for me are "How closely can they be inspecting diffs if they missed this bug?" and "A one line fix is going to take over a month and a half to fix? Really?"19:34
charlie-tcaDoesn't matter what it is marked as, if the devs don't consider it important, they will ignore it anyway19:38
ikoniathe bug system in ubuntu is broke19:39
gordrww, seems like your vollunteering to get more involved with packaging and the motu!19:39
macogord: motu cant fix it, else i would!19:39
maconeed a core dev for that19:40
charlie-tcanot broke, the developers look at the bug faster with aq higher importance. That doesn't mean they will stop to fix a minor issue19:40
ikoniacharlie-tca: it is broke19:40
charlie-tcalsb_release -a gives the correct version19:40
macoikonia: mostly understaffed, IMO19:40
ikoniamaco: agreed, big issue19:40
rwwgord: People have core competencies. The most efficient way to run a project is to have people do what they're good at, not what they complain about ;P19:41
rwwFor example, I am excellent at whining on IRC about everything. I fill this highly-necessary role very efficiently. I am credit to team.19:41
gordrww, open source is *built* on people complaining "this sucks, i'm making a better thing"19:41
gord"why doesn't this do x, it should! dang it, i'm just gonna make it do what i want, if anyone wants the code here it is"19:42
gordand yeah its not broke, its just, well you try dealing with eight billion new bugs a day (rough estimate)19:42
macoum thar bug says ogra fixed it 6h ago19:45
rwwstop complaining about my complaining. metacomplaining is mc44's core competency.19:45
maco(or well uploaded the fix)19:45
rwwmaco: Indeed. I did mention this, before #ubuntu-ops got on the complain train.19:46
ikoniaguilty19:46
rwwgods, I am way too lazy to go find pisg's maintainers. can I just fork it and not tell anyone first, or would that be rude :(19:47
joeoshawa hello  who do i talk to about a removal19:47
ikoniaI removed you19:48
joeoshawai realise that obviously a conflict of interest19:48
ikonianot at all19:48
joeoshawayou were being ignorant19:48
ikoniaI asked you not to call people names, and you had a smart response, you where removed19:48
joeoshawaall i asked was how to remove a repo19:48
ikoniajoeoshawa: yes, and I offered advice19:48
joeoshawai did not call you a name19:49
ikoniayou then started moaning19:49
ikoniajoeoshawa> i will figure it out on my own then thanks snotty19:49
joeoshawai was frustrated it happens19:49
ikoniayes, so now you're telling lies19:49
joeoshawasnotty is an attitude as i stated19:49
ikoniayou called me a name less than 60 seconds ago19:49
ikonia"don't be snotty" would be to reference an attitude, thanks snotty is calling me snotty19:49
ikonianeither are acceptable19:49
joeoshawayou called me an  idiot19:49
ikoniano I didn't19:50
ikonianow you're telling more lies, so I'll exit this conversation now as I'm not wasting time with people who lie19:50
joeoshawaadd an apt without knowing what your doing nice19:50
joeoshawais that not what you said19:51
macowith the correct version of "you're", yes19:51
macoi don't see the word idiot being said by ikonia at all though19:51
ikoniajoeoshawa: add an repo without knowing what you're doing.....nice19:51
ikoniathat is the line I used19:51
ikoniaafter you berated ubuntu for not having a removal command19:51
maco(as i'm sure you realise, being unaware of how to do something and lacking intelligence are not the same thing)19:51
ikoniathat's not clling you an idiot19:51
ikoniaif I wanted to call you an idiot I would have said "joeoshawa don't be an idiot"19:52
joeoshawasorry wrong way of putting it19:52
ikoniaor you lied19:52
joeoshawanot a lie i do not lie19:52
joeoshawaever19:52
joeoshawai put it the wrong way there is a difference19:52
ikoniayou lied about calling me a name, then you made up I called you an idiot, - lies19:52
joeoshawai said you were being snotty19:53
ikoniamaco: or one of the others can pickup your complaint19:53
joeoshawai told you it was an attitude19:53
macojoeoshawa: using an adjective as a noun can easily transform it into name-calling19:53
joeoshawanot the way i intended it and then i repeated it is an attitude in the room19:54
joeoshawaand she was being snotty19:54
joeoshawaso where is the problem19:54
joeoshawapower trip19:54
joeoshawayou know i love ubuntu as an operating system and i have tried to help people as much as i have been helped but never have i been treated like that19:55
joeoshawalike i am not as good as that person19:56
joeoshawaand yesterday i got told maybe you should look for anoother operating system if you need technical assistance by the same person19:56
ikoniawhat ?19:56
joeoshawalast night19:56
joeoshawaam i talking to you19:57
ikoniawhen/what context19:57
joeoshawayour rude and ignorant i have nothing to say to you19:57
joeoshawain regards to my isp19:57
ikonia??19:57
ikoniaI don't recall any conversation with you19:57
joeoshawanot important19:57
joeoshawathe point is your ignorant19:58
ikoniait is if you're using it as a refernce19:58
joeoshawayou think you are better then everyone else19:58
ikoniano I don't19:58
joeoshawaapparently so19:58
joeoshawathe way you spoke to me more then shows that19:58
ikoniajoeoshawa: you asked for help, and then started critising ubuntu, when the reality of it was you where not sure of what you where doing19:59
ikoniayou then turned to name calling (intended or not)19:59
ikoniayou then came in here making stuff up19:59
joeoshawa i critizised a program out of frustration19:59
joeoshawaand you left this up to someone else19:59
joeoshawanow its different20:00
ikonia??20:00
joeoshawaconvenient20:00
ikoniaI'm sorry I don't understand what you're saying20:00
joeoshawayou said somone else can deal with your complaint did you noe20:00
joeoshawanot20:00
ikoniayes20:00
joeoshawaWELL20:01
joeoshawayour here20:01
ikoniaI've only commented because you've started making other comments about conversations last night which I have no recollection of20:01
joeoshawaok never mind it doesnt' matter20:01
joeoshawai take it back if you dont' remember i do not terribly dissagree with that comment really it was not the point20:02
joeoshawanot that it matters to me really20:02
ikoniaI have no idea what you're talking about,20:02
joeoshawayour rude and ignorant to people20:03
joeoshawai made one comment and you lost your head and went on a power trip20:03
gordi'm sorry, but what are you expecint us to do joeoshawa?20:03
gordexpecting*20:04
joeoshawai just want to know how to remove one repo added by the add-apt command20:04
joeoshawai cannot find it in the list20:04
gordthis is not the place to find support for ubuntu, this is the irc ops channel, if you have no further bussiness with the ops we request you follow the topic and /part20:05
joeoshawai am here because ikonia kicked me20:05
Tm_Tshall I take this thru?20:05
ikoniayou're not banned20:06
joeoshawaomg20:06
joeoshawathis is rediculus it said if you would like to take up the reason for your ban contact this channel or something like that20:06
macojoeoshawa: add-apt-repository puts it in separate files20:06
macojoeoshawa: just rm the file. the end.20:06
joeoshawathank you may i ask where the file ends up20:07
Tm_T2146.57 -!- joeoshawa was kicked from #ubuntu by ikonia [please visit #ubuntu-ops if you wish to discuss your removal]20:07
Tm_Tjoeoshawa: see, no ban mentioned20:07
macotype /etc/apt/sources.list and hit tab a few times. i think you can guess from there ;-)20:07
joeoshawai wished to discuss my removal20:07
joeoshawai did20:07
ikoniamaco: its's in sources.d as I explained20:07
macoikonia: sources.list.d isnt it?20:08
macoyes20:08
ikoniayes, that's it20:08
macoso sources.list<Tab><tab>20:08
ikoniabut then the moaning about ubuntu started20:08
joeoshawai made one comment and you kick me20:09
ikoniarww: I take it back someone else just asked about the natty name bug20:09
joeoshawaget a life20:09
ikoniajoeoshawa: sheesh, you made one comment, I told you the truth, you started name calling, I kicked you20:09
ikoniasorry chaps, I just don't have the interest in dealing with people who blame the OS for their own failings20:09
ikoniaand ladies of course20:10
Tm_Toh, I have no issue on dealing with fellows like this (:20:10
macoafter you said its not even a ban i just went with "o fds, if i give the answer maybe they'll go away"20:10
maco(thats for duck's sake ;-) )20:10
Tm_T):20:10
ikoniashould have been more tollerant but moaning about ubuntu not doing something when he'd not even checked what he was doing or how to do it annoyed me20:11
macoTm_T:  id be violating !language if i used the other uck word!20:12
Pici~hrm20:14
rwwikonia: I made !version-bug a few days ago, if you want a factoid to give people.20:27
ikoniarww: thanks, I didn't realise it was messing people up as much as you suggested20:27
PiciI think we should make sure that lsb_release is showing the correct versions for people, or else we may get stuck giving support to people who really do have natty in #ubuntu.20:28
rwwit does20:29
ikonianot unwise20:29
Picirww: I know it does, but some people do accidentally upgrade to natty.20:30
rwwsorry, parse error20:30
macoi parsed rww-way too20:30
Pici...21:07
rww...21:07
rww...21:07
rww...21:07
Picirww: I laughed.21:07
tonyyarussossss?21:07
Picitonyyarusso: are you speaking python?21:07
tonyyarussoPici: No, Morse.21:08
rwwWhat do you call a python programmer with a wand?21:08
Picitonyyarusso: ahh21:08
tonyyarusso... is s21:08
rwwA parselmouth!21:08
Picitonyyarusso: yes, I realize that ...---...21:08
tonyyarussoright21:08
PiciJust didn't get it at first.21:08
tonyyarussohmm, it's after 3.  I should shower.21:09
mneptok-.. --- . ...   .- -. -.-- -... --- -.. -.--   -.- -. --- .-- ...   .-- .... . .-. .   .. ...   - .... .   -.-. ..- .-. .-. . -. -   .-- .--. .-   -.- . -.--   .. ...   ... - --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ..--..   .. ...   .. -   .. -.   - .... .   .-. --- ..- - . .-.   --- .-.   .. ...   .. -   .. -.   .-   -.. .- - .- -... .- -. -.-   --- ..-.   - .... .   .--. .-. --- ...- .. -.. . .-. ..--.. ..--.. ..--.. ..--..21:09
rwwmneptok: hehe21:11
PiciI wonder what "the databank of the provider" is...21:11
tonyyarussowas that a question in #ubuntu or something?21:11
rwwtonyyarusso: /lastlog Guest59435, note the timestamps21:11
rwwtonyy<tab> hrm. never mind.21:12
mneptok"Databank of the Provider" sounds like a a Rush tune21:13
gpcRush is the best band ever!21:14
gpcafternoons all!21:14
Picioh, zewb is in #freenode... may want to keep an eye out in #ubuntu if he gets bored there.21:15
mneptokINVISIBLE AIRWAVES THAT CRACKLE WITH LIFE! BRIGHT ANTENNAE BRISTLE WITH MY PASSKEY!21:15
rwwmneptok and Guest59435 are starting a technoreligion :(21:16
* genii-around signs up21:16
Picidooddledootydooodledoot21:16
mneptoki am sorry to have been made bad impression. please forget me. i-humble am never come Ubuntu again.21:17
Picioh dear21:17
gpcalabd :/21:17
* mneptok bursts into flames21:17
rwwviva la technoreligion!21:18
rww(a religion with athiest monks in it!)21:18
Picirww: don't you mean electric monks?21:19
genii-aroundAnd hopefully gadgets.21:19
ikoniamneptok: where was that21:19
mneptokikonia: was wha'?21:19
ikoniaalabd21:19
PiciI think that was from the voices in mneptok's head.21:19
mneptokhaving a tequila sunrise and playing dominoes on a beach in my subconscious.21:20
mneptokoh. as Pici said ...21:20
ikoniaooh, alabd was in freenode the other day and made a similar comment, or defocus21:20
Piciaww21:20
PiciI'm out for a bit.21:21
gpclaters21:21
rwwPici is psychic :(21:22
* mneptok twitches21:23
rwwhttp://rww.name/pisg/ops.html -> I'm the king of the ops channel!21:30
gpcthe last stat is LOL21:33
rwwI like "Poor Netsplit, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 1 times.", personally.21:33
genii-aroundHehe: "The loudest one was rww, who yelled 16.2% of the time! Another old yeller was tsimpson, who shouted 15.8% of the time!"21:33
jussirww: no, your not the king, you are the telemarketer - the one that speaks the most..........22:40
jussihehe: jussi brings happiness to the world. 24.6% lines contained smiling faces. :)22:41
jussithen: jussi is a very aggressive person. They attacked others 1 times.22:41
genii-aroundDid you hit someone unpopular and make everyone happy?  ;)22:44
rwwhe hit netsplits, so yes!22:44
genii-aroundHah!22:44
jussinetsplits :/22:45
genii-aroundIs .name some personal official reserved domain or so? This is the first I've seen it22:48
rwwit's a generic TLD for people to register names, nicknames, etc.22:49
genii-aroundInteresting22:49
rwwmaco uses one too22:49
macoyep, im mackenzie.morgan.name22:51
genii-aroundI noticed a tracepath on stuff in .name goes straight to one of IANA boxes, I guess they are authoritive DNS on it22:53
Tm_Trww: you should generate stats from all the past 5-6 years too (:22:53
Flannelrww: I can zip up all of the logs for you if you'd like22:56
rwwgenii-around: I think Verisign manages it these days22:57
=== bazhang_ is now known as bazhang
ubottum4v called the ops in #ubuntu (crapper)23:45
bazhangklined23:46

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