[00:39] <coz_> hey all
[14:21] <coz_> hey all
[18:28] <palhmbs> wow - a channel for every need
[18:28] <palhmbs> I wanna get a tablet
[18:29] <doctormo> palhmbs: Wacom?
[18:29] <palhmbs> what you can do without one is severely limiting
[18:29] <palhmbs> yeah - wacom are best aren't they?
[18:29] <palhmbs> maybe I should just get a touchscreen .. is that an option?
[18:30] <thorwil> assuming touchpad working with a stylus - yes
[18:32] <thorwil> though drawing on screen vs a tablet makes quite a difference
[18:32] <thorwil> there are people who could afford a large cintiq but still prefer a separate pad
[18:32] <palhmbs> what about rotating your display, so it's portrait instead of landscape......
[18:33] <thorwil> i'm not sure what you are after here
[18:34] <palhmbs> never mind - I should start low-cost anyway
[18:35] <thorwil> perhaps, but size is important
[18:41] <palhmbs> Which tablet should I buy? - http://bit.ly/gmhFlr
[18:44] <palhmbs> the Wacom Intuos4 series looks good - but way outa my price range
[18:44] <doctormo> thorwil: I invited palhmbs over from ubuntu-classroom-chat
[18:45] <doctormo> palhmbs: I have an Intuos3 4x6 and it's effective. I would like a screen/tablet. But I'm not rich like thorwil ;-)
[18:45] <doctormo> But! fear not, the mouse is still an effective tool for sculpting (as apposed to drawing)
[18:46] <doctormo> In fact it took me a while to get used to sculpting using the pen tool.
[18:46] <doctormo> The pen just isn't as good.
[18:46] <palhmbs> really...
[18:46] <palhmbs> I've done a few basic vector logos and things in inkscape
[18:46] <thorwil> palhmbs: i can't tell you which one to buy. but note that you might be bale to save some money with an intuos 3. even a series 2 would be alright- the size will make more of a difference
[18:46] <palhmbs> I haven't really done much blending
[18:47] <palhmbs> I come from a print background - QuarkXpress and Photoshop were what I learned my trade on
[18:47] <thorwil> doctormo: lol. i have a large intuos 2 (serial!) and can only dream of a cintiq
[18:48] <doctormo> thorwil: serial? those don't work any more in Ubuntu AFAIK
[18:48] <palhmbs> but I got way out of date - since I was working for a newspaper, then the internet news age started and most of the small newspapers near me closed down
[18:48] <thorwil> doctormo: that's true for mere mortals, but not *hackers* ;)
[18:48] <doctormo> Unless their pci based serial with a specific pnp signature.
[18:48] <doctormo> thorwil: what did you do? *curious*
[18:50] <palhmbs> doctormo, I guess this isn't you... --- http://twitter.com/#!/doctormo
[18:51] <doctormo> palhmbs: No, I'm realdoctormo on twitter. some radio jocky stole my name on twitter.
[18:53] <thorwil> doctormo: http://www1.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10094864#post10094864
[18:54] <doctormo> thorwil: I see what you've done. OK. We were trying to find out how to make serial tablets work again.
[18:54] <doctormo> There is a technical spec that could be followed, but it's way too costly to implement for old tablets.
[18:55] <doctormo> Since all the pnp tablets work, but none of the serial-plug ones do.
[18:55] <thorwil> well, getting a new one just to have usb is too costly for me :/
[19:14] <doctormo> thorwil: A lot of people face the problem: $300 for a new tablet of $3,000 to pay a developer to fix the serial support.
[19:19] <thorwil> doctormo: there must be another problem then, as i fixed mine with a bit of patching
[19:26] <doctormo> thorwil: You downgraded your wacom driver, right? I mean it's patched to work with the latest ubuntu, but it's still the old version.
[19:28] <thorwil> hmm, right
[19:29] <thorwil> perhaps i won't even bother upgrading to 11.04
[19:47] <palhmbs> is their a web design channel for ubuntu?
[19:53] <thorwil> #ubuntu-web, or maybe it was #ubuntu-website. though that's more about the technical side
[19:54] <palhmbs> thanks thorwil
[19:54] <palhmbs> so all wacom's are supported in Inkscape+Ubuntu -- is their a compatability list somewheres?
[20:00] <palhmbs> has anybody figured out how to set the toolbars to be embedded all the time soon as gimp loads?
[20:00] <palhmbs> I don't like the floating toolbars feature - making it more like inkscape / photoshop is what I'm used to
[20:06] <troy_s> palhmbs: "... more like Photoshop on Windows is what I'm used to."
[20:07] <palhmbs> I started out on a Mac actually
[20:07] <palhmbs> at work
[20:08] <troy_s> palhmbs: Sure... I just thought I'd point out that the application behaves fundamentally differently on the two platforms. Single window default is primarily Windows.
[20:08] <palhmbs> but I do like the devel GIMP which allows you to make the toolbars part of the window - but I would love it to be a preference you can set.
[20:08] <troy_s> palhmbs: It is. Not sure if it is in the version that Ubuntu ships.
[20:08] <troy_s> palhmbs: You may need to try a PPA version.
[20:09] <palhmbs> it's not... it IS in the devel version
[20:09] <palhmbs> but not quite how I'd expect it
[20:09] <troy_s> palhmbs: PPA?
[20:09] <troy_s> palhmbs: I can't say that I've been obsessed with single window mode, but I know that it is in the development version. I do not believe it is enabled by default, but via a radio box. Let me find out for a second...
[20:10] <palhmbs> ## Added for GIMP
[20:10] <palhmbs> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/matthaeus123/mrw-gimp-svn/ubuntu maverick main
[20:10] <palhmbs> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/matthaeus123/mrw-gimp-svn/ubuntu maverick main
[20:10] <palhmbs> that's the PPA I use
[20:10] <troy_s> palhmbs: Look under "Window"?
[20:10] <palhmbs> I know it's in it...
[20:10] <palhmbs> I'm just saying it should be ON as default... not off
[20:11] <troy_s> palhmbs: Isn't that a question of audience?
[20:11] <troy_s> palhmbs: It is one thing to make a statement, but another to think it through from a design vantage.
[20:12] <palhmbs> troy_s, it's not a biggie
[20:12] <palhmbs> it's not something I need...
[20:12] <troy_s> palhmbs: You.
[20:12] <troy_s> palhmbs: But in the bigger picture
[20:12] <troy_s> palhmbs: It is a design question and one that I believe people are spouting off far too much about.
[20:12] <palhmbs> but I think under window is  a dumb place - but adding it to the preferences would be a design bonus imo
[20:12] <troy_s> palhmbs: One with _no_ correct answer unless you look at audience.
[20:13] <troy_s> palhmbs: I believe it is making it's way to preferences. Not certain. You would need to check the mailing list I'd think.
[20:13] <palhmbs> troy_s, do you do development work on any ubuntu graphics packages? or are you mainly a user?
[20:14] <troy_s> palhmbs: I am an end point audience member that has commented quite a bit about design issues. The issues aren't as simple as some would like to see.
[20:15] <troy_s> palhmbs: In the absolutist black / white world of "Either it compiles or it doesn't" where right and wrong exist, complex design decisions where right and wrong do not exist are tough challenges. Single window mode is a particular sore point for me when we consider other areas that should, depending on the goals and audience, be set at a much higher priority.
[20:16] <palhmbs> troy_s, cool - like you say it entirely depends on audience, and I'm not a fan of making everything like windows / Mac
[20:16] <troy_s> palhmbs: Which is, again, a complex issue. Certain things do require consideration such as previous experience. That inevitably leads us into discussing those tough issues.
[20:16] <palhmbs> troy_s, I'd be interested in your list of higher priorities
[20:17] <troy_s> palhmbs: I've covered them quite a few times. Most recently... probably this link that got far too much attention... http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-gimp-is-inadequate.html and the follow up http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2011/01/bit-depth-and-confusion.html
[20:26] <palhmbs> your first blog link certainly provides some heated discussion
[20:27] <palhmbs> I believe I you are right -- Mac have the dominance, but open source is catching up
[20:27] <palhmbs> I believe that GIMP will continue to get better
[20:27] <troy_s> palhmbs: Your belief isn't backed up with any sort of credible data though is it?
[20:28] <palhmbs> it will certainly take time for the Linux OSS devs to catch up with the UI design concepts that Mac devs already are using
[20:28] <troy_s> palhmbs: This discourse is predicated on other unwritten bits too, such as whether it needs to 'catch up' or anything like that at all.
[20:28] <troy_s> palhmbs: UI design concepts are temporal. The very way you phrased that question positions the exact problem - if you view this as 'catch up' the culture is already hopeless.
[20:28] <palhmbs> but as you said earlier - their are definitely improvements to be made
[20:29] <troy_s> palhmbs: Make sense?
[20:29] <troy_s> palhmbs: You have to remember that it wasn't but four years ago that many had to try and explain the ridiculousness of 'making it look like Windows' etc. The exact same pattern is seen here, but with different language.
[20:30] <troy_s> palhmbs: It is _not_ simple nor easy to address. It is horribly complicated. In fact, the first point of issue is not attracting enough minds of a given type to even begin to _engage_ the issues with depth and maturity.
[20:30] <palhmbs> and I'm not going to knock the GIMP dev team - cause I'm not a good programmer, and therefore unqualified to discuss the problems with coding good GUI's or developing the background algorithms that make the filters and other necessary tools 'cool/useful'
[20:31] <palhmbs> troy_s, you are very correct, it does need to be tackled with depth and maturity
[20:31] <palhmbs> and heating the discussion to boiling point isn't mature - isn't usually counter-productive imo
[20:31] <palhmbs> s/isn't/it is/
[20:32] <troy_s> palhmbs: If you are referring to the post, that is an inevitable result. It seems that we can't deal with some of the issues without it boiling over into stupidity. So either we don't discuss the issues at all or we do. In both situations, the result distills down into sub-optimal land.
[20:33] <troy_s> palhmbs: There are deeper questions that probably need to be addressed. Some commentary seems to bring this into a <INSERTPROPRIETARYTOOLHERE> discussion, which is moot. Either Libre software can compete or it can't / doesn't care to. If the latter is the case, then perhaps there is some confusion because there appears evidence that it can.
[20:34] <troy_s> palhmbs: If it _isn't_ in certain capacities, then, we need to figure out the complexities as to _why_. Is it purely marketing? Is it fundamental design thinking / lack of thinking? Is it the complexities of interactions in some scales? Etc.
[20:35] <troy_s> palhmbs: Pretty tricky stuff. I personally am a little more passionate about the art and design ethic, issues, and culture.
[20:36] <palhmbs> you sure are - and kudos to you
[20:36] <palhmbs> being passionate makes a good designer / artist imo
[20:38] <troy_s> palhmbs: There are some very interesting sociological issues at play it seems. They look to be amplified with Libre culture in some areas.
[20:38] <troy_s> palhmbs: The big question of "How to build a culture" is a deadly tricky one. It has a cyclic Chicken-And-Egg issues but it also has some subtle bits around attitudes and opinions. Some things are dark topics we don't like to talk about around these parts.
[20:39] <palhmbs> heh - building a culture is almost like building a Church
[20:39] <palhmbs> your likely to have heretics to burn & saints to praise
[20:40] <troy_s> palhmbs: The idea that permitting of certain personalities / voices can repulse an audience is one such point. If we suggested that "Culture A repulses culture B", it makes sense. But as soon as we talk about the specifics, such as ideals / concepts / beliefs, we seem to get into some difficult terrain.
[20:40] <troy_s> palhmbs: Certainly. But the real question of "How can we cultivate a creative culture in Libre software" is one that I'd like to see some progress made in. I'm not entirely sure many think about it sadly.
[20:41] <palhmbs> David Revoy has some excellent artwork - thanks for the link
[20:41] <troy_s> palhmbs: He certainly does. There are a _very_ limited few folks out there with some stellar work (regardless as to the specifics of whether or not you enjoy the style etc.)
[20:42] <palhmbs> where do you primarily participate in a discussion about that troy_s ?
[20:42] <troy_s> palhmbs: I opted out of the discussion quite a while ago.
[20:43] <palhmbs> ah - I see
[20:43] <palhmbs> a passionate recluse then... lol
[20:44] <troy_s> palhmbs: Not really. I keep relationships going that I value. Mailing lists and such, depending on the culture, can be net sum negative or positive depending. Most of the Libre culture saddens me.
[20:45]  * thorwil is quite a distance down that road, too
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Greets Thor. Hard to know when you are lurking.
[20:45] <thorwil> troy_s: that's the plan, so stay on your toes!
[20:46] <palhmbs> it's a common aspect of any society/culture/civilisation to have a bloom of great thought / development / revolutionary thinking - then entropy sets in...
[20:46] <troy_s> palhmbs: It is far from entropy. I see it as a vector.
[20:46] <troy_s> palhmbs: Look at exceptionally successful companies... perhaps Microsoft or Honda or Nintendo or Apple.
[20:47] <palhmbs> or Google?
[20:47] <troy_s> palhmbs: They each have a vector - a sort of trajectory that attracts certain cultures and repulses others.
[20:47] <troy_s> palhmbs: Indeed.
[20:47] <troy_s> palhmbs: Ask yourself if Microsoft would want to be seen as the chic / epitome of design savvy etc.
[20:47] <thorwil> so microsoft had a kind of wallmart vector from the get go?
[20:48] <troy_s> palhmbs: The answer though, despite nearly infinite pocketbooks, is that they can't get it.
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Exactly.
[20:48] <troy_s> thorwil: Overly simplified, but I think for the purposes of this discussion, it is in fact on point.
[20:49] <troy_s> palhmbs: Nintendo has a core ethic as well. One that has a history and culture and lore of valuing video game design. It is mythological in proportion. By no small coincidence, they are doing pretty darn well in that capacity.
[20:49] <palhmbs> competition is good - killing Netscape was one very bad mistake
[20:49] <thorwil> does ubuntu have a lexus vector, if apple would be mercedes? (not that that would be fair to apple, i despise recent mercedes design)
[20:49] <troy_s> palhmbs: Side discussion. Competition can't create culture.
[20:49] <troy_s> thorwil: Well let's take it out of there.
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: Are there examples of companies that have solved and faced the issue head on?
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: I can think of at least three.
[20:50] <thorwil> aww, driving car anaolgies into a wall is fun
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: But there is something there isn't there? Models can help to frame issues. I believe there is something very interesting in that. Especially how the companies work to tactically negotiate clear issues.
[20:50] <troy_s> thorwil: Think about... keeping on automobiles... Honda.
[20:51] <troy_s> thorwil: A very well respected company. Very clear leader in quality (along with Toyota). And they indeed tackled this very issue.
[20:51] <troy_s> thorwil: Nissan as well.
[20:52] <troy_s> thorwil: And the dark secret of Apple's past that they probably would like to bury is that the person that nearly drove them into extinction had a clear mark on their current thinking - John Scully.
[20:52] <thorwil> troy_s: i don't know if that is an european or german bias, but the japanese brands seem like a less clear story to me. compared to bmw, mercedes and porsche
[20:53] <troy_s> thorwil: Well in the last triplet, the exemplary company to study would be BMW. How the _hell_ did they pull that off? That answer lies with Chris Bangle.
[20:53] <troy_s> thorwil: Did you look at Honda and Toyota? Worth looking at.
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: They actually realized that you _cannot_ fight that battle under one umbrella. "Luxury" for Eurowesterners has traits that fly in direct opposition to some of the core brand identity values their default identity was holding dear.
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Enter Lexus and Acura.
[20:54] <thorwil> yeah
[20:55] <troy_s> thorwil: (And, of course, Nissan / Infiniti)
[20:55] <thorwil> but still i suspect, that a lexus will never be what mercedes used to be
[20:55] <troy_s> thorwil: I'd think it has different goals. Mercedes is now history too. They have a mountain to climb that Chris Bangle rammed in their path.
[20:55] <thorwil> actually, one should hope that real history beats an entirely fabricated identity
[20:56] <troy_s> thorwil: Hard to know for sure, but as outsiders, we can see some interesting overlays there that might be valuable to _this_ culture.
[20:59] <thorwil> as great as it would be to see the entire ecosystem evolve, i suspect change has to start with an elite
[20:59] <palhmbs> I'm gonna have to upgrade my machine to install KDE I think - Krita is awesome
[21:00] <thorwil> i recently tried to work in krita in 16 bit mode. bad mistake
[21:00] <thorwil> krita took random thinking pauses
[21:00] <thorwil> palhmbs: have a look at mypaint, too
[21:00] <troy_s> thorwil: Success will breed imitation. Mimicry can breed skills. But is it enough? Wouldn't it be nicer if the rules and paths were well known and archived in some way? Not really a formula per se, but rather "The formula that lets success happen" as opposed to the other way around.
[21:01] <troy_s> thorwil: The LibreOffice discussion would be on point. "We were there in when the logo was developed and the goals were not met. It did not work out."
[21:02] <troy_s> thorwil: Very poignant information that sadly many don't want to see. Not saying that someone else shouldn't try the approach, but certainly valuable to consider.
[21:02] <thorwil> troy_s: sure. it's thinking like that which led to my still vague ideas on baking design thinking into infrastructure. along with educational ressources
[21:03] <troy_s> thorwil: That's the whole culture issue again. Baking it into a core. It would seem helluva important because _changing_ it after the fact ... well ... the proof is in the pudding it would seem.
[21:06] <thorwil> what i see on the LibO lists suggest that at max 1 in 20 has any clue regarding goal driven design
[21:07] <thorwil> the rest can't discern a vision statement from a marketing slogan
[21:07] <troy_s> thorwil: To be as fair as possible, proof needs to be supplied. Sometimes that can probably be pretty damn difficult to find.
[21:08] <thorwil> my gut reaction would be to filter, to drive away or kee out all those clueless, if well meaning people. but some must be given the chance to grow, so there will be a future
[21:10] <thorwil> troy_s: well, that getting anywhere you want to be requires a planned destination hardly needs proof. and yet i see people act as if that wasn't clear
[21:11] <troy_s> thorwil: "Get to where you want" is a helluva complicated statement. As always, we get lost buried under a bunch of assumptions - full circle back to the whole thing that started this chat - palhmbs 's comment.
[21:11] <troy_s> thorwil: Perhaps the issue is that people tend to see things 'for granted' where no such thing exists. When someone brings it up, it divides this culture like a hot knife through butter - us and them.
[21:12] <troy_s> thorwil: I mean it is the _tip_ of the iceberg. The UDS discussion "Design for China" would have been a fascinating thing to attend.
[21:12] <thorwil> of course it is complicated. tell me, who i've spend days working on briefings
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: Because as much as people only see Apple and Microsoft, that's a whole issue that Libre software can tackle - the idea of cultural context. Apple and Microsoft _cannot_ even begin to remotely engage that unless they swell up to a much larger being than they are. (I won't rule out Apple swelling to that level at this point for certain, if the culture inside can see the need)
[21:13] <thorwil> that session was among the more interesting, sure. what came out of it was a bit underwhelming
[21:13] <troy_s> thorwil: People looking for absolutes where there are none. I'll wager on that.
[21:15] <thorwil> troy_s: rather that the research results where hard to interpret and then some quick stabs at doing it right there, nonetheless
[21:15] <troy_s> thorwil: It is, as you well know, chasing dragons. The hegemony we have though, still believes in it. Gradual erosion might be happening, but not quickly enough in my mind.
[21:16] <troy_s> thorwil: Research is bloody hard. I've only done two low level sociology courses and my mind was ripped open on that front thanks to them. Sociologists spend entire careers trying to develop research that doesn't botch the bloody study itself.
[21:16] <thorwil> troy_s: i already imagine you have a long white beard, wrinkly forehead from all the sorrows and you sit alone on a steep, high mountain
[21:16] <troy_s> thorwil: You probably saw this one, but damn if it isn't relevant - http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-07-20-ballots_N.htm
[21:16] <troy_s> thorwil: LMAO.
[21:16] <troy_s> thorwil: It's true... I'm old.
[21:17] <troy_s> thorwil: And it does sadden me. Mainly because I'm so poorly equipped to try and engage and discuss things it appears.
[21:17] <thorwil> i manage to feel old and bloody young at the same time
[21:18] <thorwil> troy_s: the feeling that everytime you get into a serious discussion, things heat up and people react less than nice? is that what you mean with poorly equipped?
[21:19] <troy_s> palhmbs: You've gone quiet sir.
[21:19] <palhmbs> I have a meeting I'm attending on #openhatch
[21:19] <troy_s> thorwil: Not really. I tend to have a pretty good experience when I can actually talk to someone - like here for example. Even those that come in at a tangent with a clear attack posture end up pretty damn good.
[21:20] <palhmbs> sorry - I'll catch up
[21:20] <thorwil> troy_s: hmm, so one on one is critical?
[21:21] <troy_s> thorwil: Certainly critical, but that happens in the other interaction capacity. In _person_ discussions can adjust to the context. But someone that pulls a tl;dr can (not always) become some side tracked nonsense.
[21:21] <thorwil> i have to leave, coz_ has to take my place! ;)
[21:21] <thorwil> good night!
[21:21] <troy_s> thorwil: Cioa.
[21:21] <troy_s> thorwil: Ciao even.
[21:22] <coz_> oh wonderful... I get promoted without warning :)
[21:22] <troy_s> coz_: "He's dead. You are the new sergeant. Now go soldier and take that hill!"
[21:22] <coz_> lol
[21:23] <coz_> yeah slippery hill... coated with pixels  that smear as I trek to the top
[21:24] <troy_s> coz_: Or gunned down while you put your boots on. LOL.
[21:24] <coz_> I have never been interested in leading  any part of this... but I do have opinions :)
[21:25] <coz_> I am real glad I figured out this Flickr thing... its really easy and I can see how helpful it is to submit images
[21:26] <coz_> troy_s,   how are you this day?
[21:26] <troy_s> coz_: Good thanks. You?
[21:26] <coz_> troy_s,  not bad thanks for asking..
[21:51] <palhmbs> mypaint is an excellent alternative to krita
[21:51] <palhmbs> thanks
[21:52] <coz_> palhmbs,  oh yeah ,, whoever suggested that was  right
[21:52] <coz_> palhmbs,  its a nice ongoing project... I like it...soon will be able to replace Corel's  Painter
[21:53] <palhmbs> yeah - awesome
[21:53] <coz_> brush menus  are a bit awkward
[21:53] <palhmbs> I love all the different brush options
[21:53] <palhmbs> awkward because their are so many?
[21:53] <coz_> but  still over all I believe  the natural brush selection to be real nice and of course creating and editing brushes
[21:54] <coz_> palhmbs,  its appearance ....  but of course you can set a new set and only use brushes  that you like
[21:54] <coz_> palhmbs,  there are indeed many for sure :)
[21:54] <coz_> palhmbs,  it is the best natural media option in linux
[21:54] <coz_> and some un natural brushes as well :)
[21:55] <coz_> palhmbs,  have you tried Pinta?
[21:58] <palhmbs> awhile back
[21:59] <coz_> palhmbs,  its ok  not great  generally I always install these  to have on hand  .,,,   agave...gimp...inkscape...mypaint...pencil... phatch...pinta..sharpconstruct
[22:01] <palhmbs> thanks for the list -
[22:02] <palhmbs> I'll have to admit I have tried a few of those
[22:02] <palhmbs> phatch and sharpconstruct I haven't tho
[22:03] <coz_> palhmbs,  sharpconstruct is a  3d sculpting application  much like  Z-brush for windows
[22:06] <coz_> palhmbs,  phatch is for images information   and batch processing
[22:10] <coz_> see  I am a bad choice to lead I already chased him awa y  :)
[22:22] <troy_s> coz_: You have seen far's unlimited clay work yes?
[22:44] <coz_> troy_s,   no I havent
[22:44] <coz_> troy_s,  is this online?
[22:45] <troy_s> coz_: Oh... check this out then...
[22:46] <troy_s> coz_: http://vimeo.com/16358819
[22:46] <troy_s> coz_: And this is the most recent - http://vimeo.com/17635278 - better smoothing.
[22:47] <troy_s> coz_: Erk... wrong.
[22:47] <troy_s> coz_: http://vimeo.com/18532854
[22:47] <troy_s> coz_: That's the most recent I believe.
[22:48] <coz_> ooo
[22:50] <troy_s> coz_: LOL. Understatement.
[22:50] <troy_s> coz_: Fars got hired by a 3D sculpting software firm about a week ago.
[22:50] <coz_> I have to try this
[22:52] <coz_> troy_s,  very cool   is this available?
[22:52] <coz_> for linux?
[22:52] <coz_> oh wait this isnt going to be part of blender is it?
[22:52] <troy_s> coz_: Blender. Yes.
[22:52] <troy_s> coz_: It's a modifier.
[22:53] <coz_> oh damn
[22:53] <troy_s> coz_: So instead of having to subdivide, it intelligently auto subdivides.
[22:53] <coz_> troy_s,  I would prefer standalone
[22:53] <troy_s> coz_: Why? You need the rest too.
[22:53] <troy_s> coz_: Basically it is sculpt mode ++.
[22:53] <troy_s> coz_: And it works incredibly.
[22:53] <coz_> sharpconstruct  was standalone then became part of blender and now standalone again
[22:54] <troy_s> coz_: Stand alone is not an option because there is too much that needs to be added beyond sculpting to make it useful. Namely texturing, UV unwrapping,e tc.
[22:54] <coz_> troy_s,  ah ok
[22:54] <troy_s> coz_: By keeping it in Blender, Far makes it even more useful.
[22:54] <coz_> troy_s,   well maybe I can  try it at some point then
[22:55] <troy_s> coz_: I suppose if you were saying that you needed a model sculptor for previz that remains a grey white clay with environmental lighting, then yes... standalone could be feasible. Remember though, Far's patch is an amazing bit of work that builds on some amazing bits of work to make it even possible.
[22:56] <coz_> troy_s,  ok  ... I will give it a whirl
[22:56] <troy_s> coz_: You must.
[23:05] <coz_> I wouldnt mind a good sculpting application...cheaper than clay and forges :)
[23:09] <troy_s> coz_: Undo is a nice plus. LOL.
[23:09] <troy_s> coz_: Not to mention mirror.
[23:09] <coz_> :)  absolutely   although sometimes the  lack of undo forces more concentration :)
[23:09] <coz_> yeah  sharpconstruct has mirroring
[23:13] <coz_> troy_s,  you have seen most of these I blieve   http://www.flickr.com/photos/57304627@N04/
[23:13] <troy_s> By god
[23:13] <troy_s> About bloody time you idiot
[23:13] <coz_> lol
[23:13] <troy_s> Are you familiar with Alex Covic?
[23:13] <coz_> troy_s,  no I am not
[23:13] <coz_> link?
[23:14] <troy_s> http://buckybit.tumblr.com/
[23:14] <troy_s> coz_: I quite like the rambling nature of his sketches... quite interesting stuffs.
[23:15] <coz_> troy_s,  mm intesting work  ^^
[23:15] <coz_> troy_s, a bit  pierre alashinskyness there  ,,,
[23:15] <coz_> nice
[23:18] <troy_s> coz_: Yeah it's raw. I love it. And I love the sort of complete avoidance of self-editing.
[23:18] <troy_s> coz_: You familiar with Andreas Beijer?
[23:18] <coz_> troy_s,  ah oh ...no...I am being educated this evening :)
[23:18] <troy_s> coz_: He is a force. Burned himself out with commercial work but hasn't put much out... I've been cheerleading for a long while... I love his style...
[23:19] <troy_s> http://abeijer.blogspot.com/
[23:19] <troy_s> coz_: He's just recently started putting some work up.
[23:20] <troy_s> coz_: He's interested in video games as art sorts of things. Very much like Julian Oliver.
[23:20] <coz_> mm  very sort of minimalistic in a way
[23:20] <troy_s> coz_: Really digging this sort of feel - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SiJZYp4LR7U/TSzei4JmbWI/AAAAAAAAAGA/x4PwBJo-Xug/s1600/lead1.png
[23:21] <troy_s> coz_: And this one is somewhere close to a Dave McKean feel - http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SiJZYp4LR7U/TL3GYCI9LCI/AAAAAAAAAFo/hfyTXDxiOnM/s1600/myptest.png
[23:21] <troy_s> coz_: More sparse... but quite lovely.
[23:21] <coz_> troy_s,  yes  somewhat of an illustrator
[23:37] <coz_> be right back