| sebsebseb | Hi | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| === cyberdyne is now known as Guest2214 | ||
| === xindz is now known as xindz`off | ||
| Anto | Hi i'm a new user to fedora, can you help me? | 03:22 |
| ikt | Anto, this is probably the wrong place to look for help | 03:24 |
| ikt | this is a chatroom for irc discussions based around: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom | 03:24 |
| Anto | Ok fine, i guess there is some event going on, how to connect to that? | 03:24 |
| ikt | doesn't start till later tonight | 03:25 |
| Anto | Oh I thought its starting at 8.30 | 03:25 |
| Anto | So after it starts how to connect to it, i'm a newbie! | 03:26 |
| ikt | that's ok | 03:27 |
| ikt | you just have to be in this channel | 03:27 |
| ikt | this channel will be muted so only specific people can talk | 03:27 |
| ikt | and you can ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 03:27 |
| Anto | Oh fine, so i have to be in this channel, right?? | 03:28 |
| ikt | yep :) | 03:28 |
| Anto | hmmm fine, thanks | 03:28 |
| Anto | I'm using Fedora, is this event will help me? | 03:29 |
| ikt | a little bit, but not as much if you were using ubuntu | 03:30 |
| anlarye | it might give you some help ... this event will be using Ubuntu which is based on Debian and Fedora is based on Red Hat. There are differences but still it will be useful. | 03:30 |
| ikt | yeah, switch over to ubuntu :D | 03:30 |
| Anto | Oh! | 03:31 |
| anlarye | LOL ikt | 03:31 |
| ikt | http://www.ubuntu.com/ <- ubuntu > fedora | 03:31 |
| Anto | hmmm! | 03:32 |
| Anto | So your saying ubantu is better than Fedora? :) | 03:34 |
| ikt | yes :D | 03:35 |
| anlarye | everyone believes their flavor of Linux is better than others | 03:36 |
| anlarye | ubuntu is my choice but then i've always been on the debian side of things | 03:36 |
| Anto | Oh Ok ok | 03:37 |
| ikt | anlarye, it depends though, ofc I love ubuntu but if someone asked me what distro to checkout before using red hat, I would recommend fedora | 03:37 |
| ikt | if someone asks me which distro I recommend for new users, it's always going to be ubuntu | 03:38 |
| ikt | or even linux mint | 03:38 |
| anlarye | mint is based on ubuntu isnt it | 03:38 |
| ikt | yep | 03:38 |
| anlarye | i like ubuntu of course myself ... | 03:39 |
| Anto | But the command's in ubantu and fedora changes? | 03:39 |
| Anto | a little bit? | 03:39 |
| ikt | yeah a little bit | 03:40 |
| ikt | that's if you're using the commands | 03:40 |
| Anto | Ya or else the desktop structure all same right isn't it? | 03:41 |
| anlarye | fedora would use yum for installing packages via command line while ubuntu uses apt-get | 03:41 |
| Anto | I have a doubt, can I put nw? | 03:41 |
| ikt | nw? | 03:42 |
| Anto | now! | 03:42 |
| Anto | like in windows os, if some one went wrong, we can claim Microsoft, but in case of open source, whom to claim? | 03:43 |
| ikt | you can try it now yeah, you just install it to a usb drive or cd and then when you boot of the cd, it has try ubuntu without installing, use that and then if you like it you can install | 03:43 |
| Anto | sorry something went wrong means....... | 03:44 |
| ikt | oh | 03:44 |
| ikt | if someone goes wrong we have: http://ubuntuforums.org/ + #ubuntu + #ubuntu-beginners | 03:44 |
| ikt | but ubuntuforums.org is incredibly active, your questions would be answered there quickly | 03:44 |
| ikt | Active Members: 56,819 | 03:44 |
| ikt | someone = something | 03:45 |
| Anto | But if something internally goes wrong, say kernel crashes.. then who will be responsible? | 03:45 |
| ikt | you would be, because you did something wrong :P | 03:46 |
| Anto | A critical answer ;) | 03:47 |
| ikt | but if something does go wrong (and it will because we are not all experts) then the ubuntuforums.org can answer if you need help | 03:48 |
| ikt | but ubuntu is the easiest to install | 03:48 |
| ikt | easier than windows to install | 03:48 |
| Anto | Oh ok ok! | 03:48 |
| Anto | I havent tired it :) | 03:49 |
| anlarye | its helped me a few times :) | 03:49 |
| anlarye | and even here on IRC too | 03:49 |
| anlarye | love the support | 03:49 |
| ikt | yeah support with ubuntu is by far above and beyond the best | 03:50 |
| Anto | Oh!!! | 03:50 |
| Anto | I'm waiting for the event to start!! :) | 03:51 |
| ikt | ^_^ | 03:53 |
| === Fred_ is now known as Guest1342 | ||
| Anto | when the event will be start? | 04:36 |
| pleia2 | 8:30 UTC, you can see the current UTC time with this command in a terminal: date -u | 04:37 |
| Anto | date -u | 04:37 |
| pleia2 | not here, in a terminal on your computer :) | 04:37 |
| pleia2 | a little under 4 hours from now | 04:38 |
| Anto | Oh !!!! | 04:38 |
| habeouscorpus | four hours? | 04:38 |
| anlarye | Sat Jan 29 04:39:01 UTC 2011 | 04:39 |
| habeouscorpus | I'm going to be, graces willing, passed out in bed in four hours. | 04:39 |
| pleia2 | well it lasts for 21 hours, so there will be plenty of other classes when you wake up :) | 04:39 |
| habeouscorpus | is there going to be logs posted online somewhere? | 04:40 |
| pleia2 | all logs are automatically posted to irclogs.ubuntu.com | 04:40 |
| pleia2 | plus they will be linked to the wiki after each session | 04:40 |
| pleia2 | (well, as soon as a volunteer can add the link :)) | 04:41 |
| habeouscorpus | ooh nice little ftp style going on there | 04:41 |
| Anto | Event will be a "video streaming"? | 04:42 |
| pleia2 | no, it's IRC only | 04:42 |
| pleia2 | our presenters are from all over the world | 04:42 |
| Anto | So all things will be chatted?? | 04:43 |
| pleia2 | yes | 04:43 |
| pleia2 | presenters talk here, you can ask questions and talk about the session in #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 04:43 |
| Anto | oh, i'm a newbie!! Will it help for me? | 04:43 |
| Anto | and i'm using fedora :) | 04:43 |
| pleia2 | the schedule is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 04:44 |
| pleia2 | it's geared toward regular users, so hopefully you'll find something useful :) | 04:44 |
| Anto | Ya, its cool :) I'm a hard fan windows user :) Time changed me:) | 04:44 |
| sam1231 | hello everyone...!!! | 05:38 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Introduction to User Day - Instructors: nigelb, pleia2 | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 08:31 |
| pleia2 | Hello everyone, and welcome to our third Ubuntu User Day event! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 08:32 |
| pleia2 | The User Days Team has been working hard these past few weeks in order to bring you these 20 sessions. | 08:32 |
| pleia2 | Due to today's event lasting more than 20 hours, the other members of the User Days Team are unable to be here right now. However, they will be around helping out later in the day, so be sure to thank them for all of their hard work when you see them :) | 08:32 |
| pleia2 | (I myself am heading to bed after this session, it's just after midnight here) | 08:33 |
| pleia2 | Now, we have members from many teams in the Ubuntu community here today who have graciously volunteered to share their knowledge with all of us. | 08:33 |
| pleia2 | Before we begin, we would like to get a quick feel for who is here. If you are here, please say your name and where you are from. | 08:33 |
| * zkriesse is here... Rockford IL, US | 08:33 | |
| pleia2 | ah, you're up late! :) | 08:34 |
| pleia2 | California here | 08:34 |
| * JackyAlcine is from NYC, NY. | 08:34 | |
| digbydog | digbdog ... Bristol, UK | 08:34 |
| zkriesse | yeah..I am | 08:34 |
| Fred55411 | Fred in Minneapolis, Mn | 08:34 |
| tvaculin | Zubri, Czech Republic | 08:35 |
| yofel | Philip, Stuttgart/Germany | 08:35 |
| pleia2 | Great! Quite the international turnout, good to see. | 08:35 |
| pleia2 | A few of you are probably wondering what User Days are all about. | 08:35 |
| pleia2 | User Days were created to be sets of classes offered during a one day period to teach the beginning or intermediate Ubuntu user the basics in order to get them started using Ubuntu. This includes: | 08:35 |
| pleia2 | Software Installation, Finding Help in Ubuntu, Accessibility Apps, Command Line Basics, Linux Security Myths, Unity, What's Cooking in Ubuntu... | 08:35 |
| zeroseven0183 | Jean Austin, Philippines | 08:35 |
| pleia2 | ...and more! For our full schedule head over to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 08:36 |
| pleia2 | User Days were born out of a discussion at the Ubuntu Developers Summit in November 2009 regarding Ubuntu Open Week not being targeted enough at users. | 08:36 |
| pleia2 | Now for a quick rundown of how today will work: | 08:36 |
| pleia2 | Each hour, an instructor will be giving a class in this channel, #ubuntu-classroom | 08:36 |
| pleia2 | During the classes, #ubuntu-classroom will be moderated (+m). This means that only the instructor and hosts will be able to talk in the channel. | 08:36 |
| pleia2 | Any discussion about the class should take place #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 08:37 |
| pleia2 | If you have a question during the class, please ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Be sure to prefix it with 'QUESTION:' to ensure that it gets noticed. For example: | 08:37 |
| pleia2 | QUESTION: What are Ubuntu User Days? | 08:37 |
| pleia2 | Anyone wanna give it a try? :) | 08:37 |
| ClassBot | zeroseven0183 asked: How long has Ubuntu been holding Ubuntu User Days | 08:38 |
| pleia2 | We held our first User Days in January of 2010, had the second in July of 2010 | 08:38 |
| ClassBot | geekosopher asked: who is the target audience | 08:38 |
| pleia2 | beginner to intermediate users, but some sessions may be of interest to everyone | 08:39 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: is there a way to see schedule in local time? | 08:40 |
| pleia2 | there are a couple of ways, you can add the schedule ical in the topic to your own calendar: http://is.gd/8rtIi | 08:40 |
| pleia2 | or you can go to the schedule on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays and click on the time - it'll take you to a website which tells you the local time in dozens of cities around the world | 08:41 |
| pleia2 | After each session, our group of volunteers will post the IRC logs to the wiki as soon as possible. | 08:41 |
| pleia2 | So if you miss a session or just want to review what you learned, be sure to check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays for links to logs that our volunteers will put up as soon as they are able | 08:41 |
| pleia2 | If you can't wait, Logs will also be automatically posted on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com near the end of each hour. | 08:42 |
| pleia2 | Please be sure to remind all of your friends and family who might be interested in using Ubuntu that this event is taking place today. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/JoiningIn has some information about how they can participate. | 08:42 |
| pleia2 | Finally, before we move on to answering any more questions about Ubuntu User Days that you might have, I would like to give a big thanks to everyone who has helped make this day possible. | 08:42 |
| pleia2 | It simply would not have been possible to organize this event without all of their help :) | 08:43 |
| pleia2 | Finally, at the end of the day, please take some time to fill out our survey! We will use the results to help make the next Ubuntu User Day event even better. http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 | 08:43 |
| pleia2 | Now, does anyone have any general questions about the day? | 08:43 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: What percent of time would you expect will be questions? | 08:44 |
| pleia2 | It depends on the class and the instructor and some instructors have a lot of Q&A throughout their session, some wait until the end | 08:45 |
| pleia2 | generally it's most of the class as a lecture, and a minority of questions | 08:46 |
| ClassBot | digbydog asked: I'm using IRC via my browser and there is a long list of users to the right but there are only a few users attending this class. Who are all the ussers on the right? | 08:46 |
| pleia2 | a lot of people idle in this channel 24/7 and some people are here but don't wish to speak up (that's fine!) | 08:46 |
| pleia2 | so you'll always get a good percentage of people who are "here" but inactive | 08:46 |
| ClassBot | geekosopher asked: how were the topics for UUD selected? | 08:47 |
| pleia2 | a call for instructors goes out a month or two prior to the Day, volunteer instructors then submit class suggestions to the classroom team | 08:47 |
| pleia2 | from there the team goes through the proposals and instructors and selects ones from the day, we've been quite fortunate in recruiting to have lots of great volunteers | 08:48 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: Is it ok to ask questions at any time even if they will be aswered at the end? | 08:48 |
| pleia2 | it depends on the instructor, they will often tell you when it's ok to ask questions | 08:49 |
| pleia2 | generally it's fine though, you may just have to wait until the end | 08:49 |
| ClassBot | zeroseven0183 asked: Do you need to be an official Ubuntu Member to be an instructor? | 08:49 |
| pleia2 | no, but if you're a new instructor and the classroom team isn't familiar with you we may ask for some documentation of previous work or a class outline so we can make sure you're prepared for the class | 08:50 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 08:51 |
| treb29 | Is this for newbies? | 08:52 |
| ClassBot | zeroseven0183 asked: What if I miss a class? How do I catch up? Are there any chat logs I can see? | 08:52 |
| pleia2 | at the end of each hour, all logs are automatically posted to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com and we'll also link the logs on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays | 08:53 |
| pleia2 | treb29: yes, beginners to intermediate | 08:53 |
| treb29 | Thank you | 08:53 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: Do you encourage chat on the topic in the ...chat channel? | 08:55 |
| pleia2 | Yes, please stay on topic in the -chat channel, remember the chat channel is where questions are, so instructors have to keep an eye on it during their class | 08:55 |
| pleia2 | if you have a lot of offtopic chat this makes it very difficult for them to follow while giving their class | 08:56 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 08:56 |
| pleia2 | so feel free to talk as much as you like about the current session :) | 08:56 |
| ClassBot | digbydog asked: Will other media aprart from IRC be used in these sessions? | 08:57 |
| pleia2 | some instructors may post links to screenshots or other things during their class, but other than that no | 08:58 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: Is being able to ask questions (and gets answers) the main advantage over reading the archives? | 08:58 |
| pleia2 | that's certainly one of the advantages - you get to hear and talk with the expert directly | 08:58 |
| pleia2 | I also have found it fun to chat with folks in -chat who share my interest for a subject, so there is the social aspect as well | 08:59 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Software Installation - Instructors: shrini | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 09:01 |
| pleia2 | Shrinivasan, is a open source lover, who lives in Chennai, India. He talks about open source philosophies in local colleges and schools. Currently he is giving technical support to subversion and TeamForge at CollabNet. He runs a weekly newsletter "FossNews" and a blog for Foss Jobs. | 09:02 |
| pleia2 | shrini: take it away! :) | 09:02 |
| shrini | Hello all | 09:02 |
| shrini | So happy to meet you all here | 09:02 |
| shrini | Here, let us explore the various options of package management in ubuntu | 09:03 |
| shrini | One of the best feature that ubuntu provides is its package management | 09:04 |
| shrini | When I was in windows world, I used to carry some 30 to 40 CDs with me always | 09:04 |
| shrini | they were filled with various software | 09:04 |
| shrini | I had my local collection of required software | 09:05 |
| shrini | but the ubuntu linux changed the way we approach installing software in our systems | 09:05 |
| shrini | Let us explore about installing and removing of various software in ubuntu linux | 09:06 |
| shrini | using Graphical Tools and commandline tools | 09:06 |
| shrini | First tool is "Ubuntu Software Center" | 09:07 |
| shrini | It is available under the menu "Applications" | 09:07 |
| shrini | Hope you all have ubuntu machines now | 09:08 |
| shrini | Please open that software | 09:08 |
| shrini | It is talking a little time to load | 09:09 |
| shrini | It is there opened | 09:09 |
| shrini | It is showing some departments | 09:09 |
| shrini | What are they? | 09:09 |
| shrini | Unlike Windows and Mac, Ubuntu linux provides tons and tons software | 09:10 |
| shrini | It gives a central place where we can fetch required software | 09:10 |
| shrini | That central place is available in the internet | 09:12 |
| shrini | it is called as "repository" | 09:12 |
| shrini | Ubuntu gives some default repositories to fetch the software | 09:13 |
| shrini | we can add some extra repositories too. | 09:13 |
| shrini | repository can be called as "repo" too | 09:13 |
| shrini | The default repository is available at http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/dists/ | 09:14 |
| shrini | you can browse the available packages for all the ubuntu versions | 09:14 |
| shrini | Let us come back to our "Ubuntu Software Center" | 09:14 |
| shrini | The available software in the repositories are categorised into various departments | 09:15 |
| shrini | Ubuntu is for all human beings | 09:16 |
| shrini | so it provides software for various fields where computers can be used | 09:16 |
| shrini | From Education, development, graphics, multimedia, research, office to games | 09:17 |
| shrini | and more | 09:17 |
| shrini | Let us explore the Graphics packages available | 09:17 |
| shrini | I am clicking the "Graphics" department | 09:18 |
| shrini | It gives some more categories like 3D, Drawing, Photography, Viewers etc | 09:18 |
| shrini | Going into Photography | 09:19 |
| shrini | It provides all the software required for digital photography management | 09:19 |
| shrini | See the small green tick mark in the "Shotwell Photo Manager" | 09:19 |
| shrini | It means that "Shotwell Photo Manager" is already installed in our computer | 09:20 |
| shrini | We can install any of the software shown here | 09:20 |
| shrini | Let us install "Gwenview" | 09:21 |
| shrini | It is a nice Image viewer | 09:21 |
| shrini | LEt us click on it | 09:21 |
| shrini | It shows some little info with a button "install" | 09:22 |
| shrini | Let us click the button "more info" | 09:22 |
| shrini | It gives some more info really | 09:22 |
| shrini | in the upcoming page | 09:23 |
| shrini | An introduction, link to the original website, a screenshot, size and some more details are displayed here | 09:23 |
| shrini | Now let us click the button "install" shown in the same page | 09:24 |
| shrini | Now it asks the password | 09:24 |
| shrini | we need the administrator privileges to install any software in ubuntu | 09:25 |
| shrini | The first user in ubuntu has the admin right and we can give the password | 09:25 |
| shrini | if we have the admin permission, the screen goes to the next stage | 09:26 |
| shrini | The blue bar shows the status as "installing" | 09:26 |
| shrini | In the left panel, we can see a new item as "In progress (1)" | 09:27 |
| shrini | After a while, it is finished the progress and it shows as "installed" | 09:29 |
| shrini | the speed depends on the speed of Internet connection | 09:31 |
| shrini | and the dependencies it has to download | 09:32 |
| shrini | We can install any package like this | 09:32 |
| shrini | Ubuntu provides such easiest process to install any software | 09:35 |
| shrini | The same software center provides some "Featured" software in the home page | 09:36 |
| shrini | They are the best software referred by the ubuntu community to install and live happily | 09:38 |
| shrini | they are popular, stable and feature rich software | 09:39 |
| shrini | We can click on any already installed software and we can see the button "remove" | 09:40 |
| shrini | we can uninstall the software by clicking the "remove" button | 09:41 |
| shrini | It will ask for the password and will remove it | 09:41 |
| shrini | Let us explore some advanced software called "Synaptic Package Manager" | 09:42 |
| shrini | It is available at the menu System->administration | 09:43 |
| shrini | Close the Software center and open the Synaptic | 09:44 |
| shrini | It interface is little advanced but give a lot of details | 09:44 |
| shrini | The left panel gives various departments same as software center | 09:44 |
| shrini | the right panel lists the software available at the selected department | 09:45 |
| shrini | top right corner has a search box | 09:45 |
| shrini | give some text there and see the result | 09:45 |
| shrini | I give there as "thunderbird" | 09:46 |
| shrini | It shows the results of the software related to the word "thunderbird" | 09:46 |
| shrini | we can click on any software and select "Mark for Installation" in the menu | 09:47 |
| shrini | I selected "thunderbird" | 09:47 |
| shrini | Now, click the "Apply" button in the top panel | 09:47 |
| shrini | another window pops up with some more details | 09:48 |
| shrini | it shows the size of download, dependency package list etc | 09:48 |
| shrini | I click "apply" button and it starts to download | 09:48 |
| shrini | we can see the files being downloaded and installed automatically | 09:49 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: Does KDE app have lots of dependencies when installed on Gnome system? | 09:49 |
| shrini | yes. KDE apps will download the core packages to run the KDE apps | 09:50 |
| shrini | we can run all the KDE apps in Gnome, after installing the required kde packages | 09:50 |
| ClassBot | geekosopher asked: If installing a package requires removal of other already installed program, does Software Center warn the user that the other package will be removed? | 09:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 09:51 |
| shrini | it will do that automatically | 09:53 |
| shrini | synaptic and commandline tools will show the list of software installed and removed | 09:53 |
| shrini | after we confirm only they start installing | 09:53 |
| shrini | To remove any software using synaptic, we can click and select "Mrk for removal" | 09:54 |
| shrini | "Mark for complete removal" will remove all the dependency software too | 09:54 |
| shrini | we can edit or add repositories in "Settings->Repositories" in synaptic | 09:56 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 09:56 |
| shrini | Let us explore some commandline tools | 09:56 |
| shrini | open a terminal | 09:56 |
| shrini | apt-cache search <name> | 09:56 |
| shrini | to search the software related to the "name? | 09:56 |
| shrini | apt-cache search thunderbird | 09:57 |
| shrini | will list the repated software | 09:57 |
| shrini | related software | 09:57 |
| shrini | sudo apt-get install thunderbird | 09:57 |
| shrini | will list the required software to fetch and after our confirmation | 09:57 |
| shrini | it will install thunderbird | 09:57 |
| shrini | to uninstall any software | 09:57 |
| shrini | sudo apt-get remove thunderbird | 09:58 |
| ClassBot | Fred55411 asked: You said "left panel gives various departments same as software center" but software center's seem more "friendly" and less extensive. Do you concur? | 09:58 |
| shrini | Yes. software center is more user friendly | 09:59 |
| shrini | My old dad loves it very much then synaptic | 09:59 |
| shrini | Ubuntu is always making our life much easier | 09:59 |
| shrini | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto | 10:00 |
| shrini | this links give more info about snaptic | 10:00 |
| shrini | I am done with the session | 10:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Networking and sharing files in Ubuntu - Instructors: dnivra | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 10:01 |
| pleia2 | thanks shrini! | 10:01 |
| pleia2 | now we welcome dnivra for a class on Networking and sharing files in Ubuntu :) | 10:01 |
| dnivra | thanks pleia2 ! | 10:01 |
| dnivra | Hello everyone. I'm dnivra and welcome to this session on “Networking and Sharing Files in Ubuntu”. | 10:02 |
| dnivra | If you have any questions at any point of time, ask at #ubuntu-classroom-chat and I shall try to answer them as much as possible. | 10:02 |
| dnivra | so let's begin. | 10:02 |
| dnivra | Here's a scenario: you want to browse the video collection of your friend and copy few that you like. | 10:03 |
| dnivra | BUT, your friend is busy doing some important work on his computer so you can't use it and you don't have a hard disk to copy all videos to view at your own leisure. | 10:03 |
| dnivra | In this session, I will introduce a simple and easy to do solution-how to connect two computers over LAN(Local Area Network) and share files between them using samba. | 10:03 |
| dnivra | Note that this is a very basic method, to be used when you want to share files instantly and recommended for a short period only. | 10:04 |
| dnivra | That is there can be issues(say security) with this method. | 10:04 |
| dnivra | I just think going into those details would be rather overwhelming at this stage. So we will just stick to the basics of this. | 10:05 |
| dnivra | For sharing files you will need | 10:05 |
| dnivra | 2 computers :) | 10:05 |
| dnivra | a LAN cable, | 10:06 |
| dnivra | and an internet connection on either computer. | 10:06 |
| dnivra | this computer will act as the server, while other as client. | 10:06 |
| dnivra | oh and you need sudo privilege on the server as well. | 10:06 |
| dnivra | If you have two laptops/desktops with wireless cards, you don't need a LAN cable-you can settle for a wireless connection. | 10:07 |
| dnivra | But, I strongly suggest using LAN owing to higher transfer rates. | 10:07 |
| dnivra | so for starters, let's install samba. | 10:07 |
| dnivra | To do so, please run the command “sudo apt-get install samba” in the terminal. | 10:07 |
| dnivra | Alternatively, you can install samba from Synaptic Package Manager(System -> Administration -> Synaptic Package Manager). | 10:08 |
| dnivra | but i prefer command line, sort of easier and hassle free. | 10:08 |
| dnivra | note that you'll need samba installed on both machines. | 10:08 |
| dnivra | While samba is being installed, let us configure the network and establish a connection. | 10:09 |
| dnivra | To do so, right click on the network manager icon on the top panel and select “Edit Connections”. | 10:09 |
| dnivra | You'll be greeted by the Network Connections window, in which the Wired tab would be selected. | 10:09 |
| dnivra | In the Wired tab, create a new connection by clicking on “Add”. | 10:10 |
| dnivra | I recommend this over using Auto eth0 connection just in case anything gets messed up, you still have Auto eth0. | 10:10 |
| dnivra | For those connecting via wireless, choose the wireless tab and create the connection by clicking on “Add”. | 10:11 |
| dnivra | Those who have a DHCP server running on local network can avoid the following step and hit the “Apply” button. | 10:11 |
| dnivra | If you are unsure, follow the next step(recommended for all). | 10:12 |
| dnivra | On clicking add, a window pops up asking you to specify the properties of the connection. | 10:12 |
| dnivra | (I'm not going to cover security of the connection-it'd require a lot more time.) | 10:12 |
| dnivra | Choose the “IPv4 Settings” tab in the window that just popped up. | 10:12 |
| dnivra | “Method” is set to “Automatic(DHCP)” by default. Choose “Manual” from the box. The “Addresses” box just below will become active. | 10:13 |
| dnivra | Click on the “Add” button. This enables to specify an IP address manually. | 10:13 |
| dnivra | Enter the value 192.168.1.1 for Address, 255.255.255.0 for Netmask and 192.168.1.255 for Gateway. | 10:13 |
| dnivra | I'll explain the meaning of the values if we have time at the end of the session-they are not really relevant here. | 10:14 |
| dnivra | (as long as they work of course :) ) | 10:14 |
| dnivra | Once you have entered the values, click Apply. | 10:14 |
| dnivra | Repeat the above steps from right clicking on network manager icon to clicking on apply in the second machine as well except using 192.168.1.2 instead of 192.168.1.1. | 10:15 |
| dnivra | Ensure you use the same name for the network, in case of wireless connections. | 10:15 |
| dnivra | by now, we have configured the connection. | 10:16 |
| dnivra | now, plug the lan cable into the ethernet ports of the two computers. | 10:16 |
| dnivra | and please click on network manager and connect to the network you created by clicking on the name of the network. A notification would be shown soon which would say whether the connection is active or not. | 10:17 |
| dnivra | Though the connection is active, it needn't be the case that the computers are connected. | 10:18 |
| dnivra | To test if two computers are indeed connected, we use the command ping. | 10:18 |
| dnivra | there are two ways you can use ping. | 10:18 |
| dnivra | 1. Simple Method: run “ping 192.168.1.2” in the terminal of the machine 192.168.1.1. | 10:19 |
| dnivra | and vice versa too if you want though not required. | 10:19 |
| dnivra | or do it using the GUI: System -> Administration -> Network Tools -> Ping. | 10:19 |
| dnivra | Enter the IP address in the box there and click on the button “ping”. | 10:20 |
| dnivra | enter IP address in the box named "Network address". | 10:20 |
| dnivra | you can do vice versa too. | 10:20 |
| dnivra | if you were able to ping successfully, the computers are connected! success! yaay! | 10:21 |
| dnivra | a successful ping from terminal would have a similar output http://paste.ubuntu.com/559830/. | 10:22 |
| dnivra | *similar* not same. | 10:22 |
| dnivra | i'll pause for questions if any :). though I'm guessing steps till now are pretty clear. | 10:22 |
| dnivra | no questions? alright then moving on to the sharing part. | 10:24 |
| dnivra | In the server machine, right click the folder/file you want to share and select “Sharing Options”. | 10:24 |
| dnivra | The folder sharing window opens up. | 10:24 |
| dnivra | By default, the “Share this folder” option is not selected. Check this option. | 10:25 |
| dnivra | Now, you can specify a share name or choose to stick to the default name. | 10:26 |
| dnivra | sometimes samba may complain that 'share name is too long'. just choose a shorter name in that case. | 10:26 |
| dnivra | the other two options can be left untouched. they are self explanatory in my opinion. | 10:28 |
| dnivra | but if you do enable them, do so with care :) | 10:28 |
| dnivra | Click on “Create Share” and your share will be created in the server machine. | 10:29 |
| dnivra | any questions till this stage? | 10:29 |
| ClassBot | digbydog asked: The share defaults to the same name as the folder can that be a problem? | 10:31 |
| dnivra | no there wouldn't be any issues | 10:31 |
| dnivra | in fact, i choose to stick to the same name as the folder. otherwise I have to remember the mapping-which share name for which folder. | 10:32 |
| dnivra | hope that answers your question digbydog | 10:32 |
| dnivra | any more questions before we move on? | 10:32 |
| dnivra | okay so moving on. | 10:33 |
| dnivra | Now how to view the shared files. | 10:33 |
| dnivra | In the client machine, navigate to Places -> Connect To Server. | 10:33 |
| dnivra | the connect to server box pops up now. | 10:34 |
| dnivra | There are several ways to connect to the server. This is specified by service type. | 10:34 |
| dnivra | For our current discussion, select “Windows Share”. | 10:35 |
| dnivra | note that using this method, you can connect to windows shares from ubuntu and also to samba shares on other ubuntu machines. | 10:35 |
| dnivra | In server, enter the IP address of server machine. | 10:36 |
| dnivra | i.e. 192.168.1.1 | 10:36 |
| dnivra | (assuming 192.168.1.1 is your server) | 10:36 |
| dnivra | You can supply the optional information but not essential-you will be prompted for the required ones later. | 10:36 |
| dnivra | once you are done entering the information(if you are doing so), click on connect. | 10:37 |
| dnivra | if you did not specify any specific information, the share list will be retrieved from the server automatically. | 10:38 |
| dnivra | share list is the list of folders that are currently being shared by the server. you can then select the appropriate share. | 10:38 |
| dnivra | this is where it helps to have same, or at least similar, share name as the folder. | 10:39 |
| dnivra | of course, if you have an amazing memory, you can choose any share name :). as long as you will remember it. | 10:39 |
| dnivra | let us say the shared folder is videos and it's share name is also videos. | 10:40 |
| dnivra | once you connect to the server, the share names will be displayed and the share video will also be displayed there. | 10:40 |
| dnivra | (assuming you did everything right :) ) | 10:41 |
| dnivra | if you had specified any information, you would see that you won't be prompted for those if they were right. | 10:41 |
| dnivra | but, i would suggest provide less details-samba will prompt you for required details. | 10:42 |
| dnivra | and you'd be prompted to enter them, if you double click the share name. | 10:42 |
| dnivra | i.e. here 'videos'. | 10:43 |
| dnivra | for the username and password, you can just enter the username and password of the user who created this share on the server. | 10:44 |
| dnivra | and leave the workgroup to the default value 'WORKGROUP'. | 10:44 |
| dnivra | the workgroup concept is same as the workgroup concept in windows. so nothing new there :). | 10:45 |
| dnivra | once you have entered all details, click on connect. | 10:46 |
| dnivra | the contents of the share would be displayed to you1 | 10:46 |
| dnivra | (assuming all details are correct) | 10:46 |
| dnivra | which means you've successfully shared files! yaay! | 10:46 |
| dnivra | and of course, you can do the same via command line as 'nautilus smb://192.168.1.1'. | 10:47 |
| dnivra | short, simple and my preferred method :) | 10:47 |
| dnivra | i guess that pretty much means the sessions. i welcome questions now. | 10:48 |
| dnivra | we have about ten minutes. | 10:49 |
| dnivra | meanwhile I shall try retrieving a few interesting links about samba. | 10:49 |
| dnivra | first and best I'd say https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Samba. | 10:50 |
| dnivra | It talks about various aspects such as configuring clients, servers, the web interface(SWAT) to configure samba, securing samba, sharing filters, troubleshooting, mounting shares permanently and much more. | 10:50 |
| dnivra | swat is something you can check out-Samba Web Administration Tool. | 10:50 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 10:51 |
| dnivra | but *before* installing swat, back up the samba configuration file located at /etc/samba/smb.conf | 10:51 |
| ClassBot | digbydog asked: You used the command line nautilus smb://192.168.1.1. smb does not appear as an option for nautilus. What is happening with that command line? | 10:53 |
| dnivra | digbydog, smb is not an option true. it is a protocol. it stands for Server Message Block. | 10:54 |
| dnivra | in fact, you can press Alt+F2 and type in 'smb://192.168.1.1'. it would still retrieve the share. | 10:54 |
| dnivra | smb://192.168.1.1 is sort of similar to http://www.google.com or http://192.168.1.1 | 10:55 |
| dnivra | bottom line, SMB is a protocol just like HTTP. | 10:55 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 10:56 |
| dnivra | more questions anyone? | 10:56 |
| dnivra | we got 5 minutes or we could wrap up. | 10:56 |
| dnivra | Here's how to on mounting windows shares permanently. might come in handy for a few. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MountWindowsSharesPermanently | 10:58 |
| dnivra | there are tons of guides out there on how to share stuff using samba. | 10:59 |
| dnivra | here is one on how to share without need for a password. i don't think it quite works though. you can still try it out even though it may be a bit out of reach. http://www.debuntu.org/guest-file-sharing-with-samba | 11:00 |
| dnivra | and do remember that the normal unix permissions do apply on samba shares. so if you login as a user who can't create a file, you can't create a file. | 11:00 |
| dnivra | t#ubuntu is the place for any sort of help on this-surely somebody will help you out there. Thank you for listening patiently! | 11:00 |
| dnivra | I'm done with my session. | 11:00 |
| * dnivra bows graciously to the audience. I had a lot of fun! | 11:00 | |
| dnivra | Well see you guys around in #ubuntu. Enjoy rest of User Days! | 11:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Cloud for users - Instructors: Daviey | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 11:01 |
| cjohnston | Up next is Daviey, but we can't seem to find him right now.. | 11:03 |
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html | 11:12 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || | ||
| cjohnston | We are going to have to reschedule Daviey's class on Cloud for Users. Sorry for the inconvenience. | 11:12 |
| cjohnston | For now, take a break, and we will resume in about 45 minutes. | 11:13 |
| obengdako | okay then | 11:13 |
| cjohnston | Sorry for the change all. | 11:14 |
| === xindz`off is now known as xindz | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| === droidslayer_ is now known as droidslayer | ||
| edwardteach | help #ubuntu has turned into ubuntu-ot | 11:37 |
| droidslayer | edwardteach: not really the right channel | 11:38 |
| dnivra | edwardteach, there is !ot in #ubuntu. | 11:39 |
| dnivra | you can just tell the users that. | 11:39 |
| edwardteach | i know i typed it in the wrong tab sorry guys ! i have fat clumsy fingers on my netbook :) | 11:42 |
| cjohnston | coming up in just a few minutes is ralsina | 11:55 |
| Faroukus-Ubounut | let talk about somthing ? | 11:57 |
| cjohnston | you have 1.5 minutes | 11:59 |
| MrChrisDruif | Faroukus-Ubounut: Ubuntu One within secs | 11:59 |
| cjohnston | Someone kick ClassBot | 12:00 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Ubuntu One - Instructors: ralsina | ||
| cjohnston | hey look.. i kicked it | 12:01 |
| cjohnston | ralsina: its all you | 12:01 |
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 12:01 |
| ralsina | thanks cjohnston | 12:01 |
| ralsina | Hi, my name is Roberto, I work in Ubuntu One at Canonical, and my goal here today is to help you learn about Ubuntu One, | 12:01 |
| ralsina | and share some of the reasons why we at the Ubuntu One team are really excited about what we have to offer you now, and our | 12:01 |
| ralsina | plans for the future. | 12:01 |
| ralsina | So, what's ubuntu one? | 12:02 |
| ralsina | Here's our standard definition, taken form the webpage: | 12:02 |
| ralsina | "The personal cloud that brings your digital life together" | 12:02 |
| ralsina | That's not really a bad definition, assuming you know what a "personal cloud" is, and that you have a "digital life" ;-) | 12:02 |
| ralsina | I think of Ubuntu One as my own chunk of Internet. | 12:03 |
| ralsina | It's as if I took a piece of Internet and put it into my computer. | 12:03 |
| ralsina | That way, I can do things like taking a file, save it inside Ubuntu One, and voilá, it's on the Internet! I can then do things with that file, like sharing it with other people. | 12:03 |
| ralsina | If I have more than one computer connected to the Internet, then of course my own piece of the Internet that's Ubuntu One is also there, so when I put a file into it, I get it on all my computers. | 12:03 |
| ralsina | And if I have a cell phone that has an internet connection, like an iPhone or one with Android, why, my chunk of the Internet is there too. | 12:04 |
| ralsina | (Sadly I don't yet, I got a symbian phone before I joined the company ;-) | 12:04 |
| ralsina | If you have a windows computer? You can get Ubuntu One there, too. | 12:05 |
| ralsina | And if you don't have the Ubuntu One application installed, you can still use it online via our webpage: http://one.ubuntu.com | 12:05 |
| ralsina | What I just described is our file syncing service. | 12:05 |
| ralsina | But that's not all Ubuntu One provides, there are also ways to put your contacts, your bookmarks, your music, your notes, in that "personal cloud". | 12:05 |
| ralsina | Later on, we will see how to do many of those things. | 12:06 |
| ralsina | So now, let's see how you can use Ubuntu One, too. | 12:06 |
| ralsina | I will be using for all examples a fresh install of Maverick Meerkat. If you have a different version, things may be slightly different, but you can probably figure it out with no problems. | 12:06 |
| ralsina | Note: feel free to ask anything at any time, I am happy to stop and answer, don't be shy! | 12:07 |
| ralsina | So, if you are using Ubuntu, you should have what's called the "me" menu near the top right | 12:08 |
| ralsina | Sorry about the delay, lost connection for a second | 12:11 |
| ralsina | As I said, you have the "me" menu, and in it, there is an Ubuntu One item. If you click on it | 12:11 |
| ralsina | Of course, questions are to be asked in #ubuntu-classroom-chat , not here :-) | 12:12 |
| ralsina | This is my first time doing this on IRC, so expect me to stumble on things ;-) | 12:12 |
| ralsina | Well, I have no idea why the name was chosen, I was not around at the time :-) | 12:14 |
| ralsina | I think it sounds nice, though! | 12:14 |
| === starcraftman is now known as starcraft | ||
| ralsina | If you choose Ubuntu One in the me menu, you will see this window: | 12:14 |
| ralsina | http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/fzs8k4re/CreateUbuntuOneaccount_002.png | 12:15 |
| ralsina | With that, you can create your own Ubuntu One account. | 12:15 |
| ralsina | Anyone can have one, and you get 2GB of storage. | 12:15 |
| ralsina | If that is not enough, you can later buy extra storage | 12:16 |
| ralsina | If you already have an account, you can just sign in, using the big button at the bottom. | 12:16 |
| ralsina | Once you login you will see this, the preferences for Ubuntu One: | 12:17 |
| ralsina | http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/w1vctj8f/UbuntuOnePreferences_003.png | 12:18 |
| ralsina | Of course with your name on it, instead of mine. | 12:18 |
| ralsina | Once you sign in, you can start using it. | 12:19 |
| ralsina | For the simplest service, file sync, you just put whatever you want uploaded into the "Ubuntu One" folder in your home | 12:20 |
| ralsina | geekoshopper asked " can we expect a Ubuntu One to be integrated into Kubuntu desktop anytime?" | 12:20 |
| ralsina | Well... did I mention my email address is ralsina@kde.org? | 12:20 |
| ralsina | ;-) | 12:20 |
| ralsina | However, don't expect it very soon. | 12:21 |
| ralsina | Currently we are working on cleaning up the lower layers to make them less platform-dependent. | 12:21 |
| ralsina | Once that's done, I will be working on my own time on a Qt-based client, that could be improved into a KDE client later on. | 12:21 |
| ralsina | mpounta asked "why it still says "disconnected" even if we are connected to the service?" | 12:22 |
| ralsina | mpounta: well, it was not connected ;-) | 12:22 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif asked "Why are there only paid upgrade plan? Dropbox has an upgrade plan with social media and friend invites etc too a max of 8GB.." | 12:23 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif: well, currently they are just not there. We may do something similar on the future, or not. Not really my area, I'm afraid. | 12:23 |
| ralsina | So, if you put files into your "Ubuntu One" folder, they will be replicated on the storage you have online, and in any other computers where you are running Ubuntu One. | 12:25 |
| ralsina | If this is the first time you use this computer, you have to go to the Devices tab and "Connect" this computer | 12:25 |
| ralsina | Once you have some files in "Ubuntu One" folder, if you open it in Nautilus, you will get something in the right-button menu | 12:27 |
| ralsina | A "Ubuntu One" sub-menu, with options like "Publish" and others. | 12:28 |
| ralsina | For example, I clicked "Publish" on an image I have in my Ubuntu One. http://ubuntuone.com/p/a6b/ | 12:28 |
| ralsina | You get the link by right-click -> Ubuntu One -> Copy Web Link | 12:28 |
| ralsina | As you can see, Ubuntu One is a very easy way to share things with your friens. | 12:29 |
| ralsina | friends* | 12:29 |
| ralsina | Just keep in mind that anyone can see those files just by having the URL, so don't use it for private stuff! | 12:29 |
| ralsina | You can later stop publishing the file by using the "Stop Publishing" option. | 12:30 |
| ralsina | You can also "Share" specific folders with other Ubuntu One users. | 12:31 |
| ralsina | That way, for example, you can share your family photos with other family members. These are private, and only the users you select will see them. | 12:31 |
| ralsina | For using Ubuntu One with notes, you use the Tomboy application. | 12:32 |
| ralsina | For contacts, there an evolution plugin. | 12:33 |
| ralsina | And for bookmarks, there is a Firefox extension. | 12:33 |
| ralsina | Ubuntu One also has a Music Store | 12:34 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif asked: Isn't syncing music the same as syncing files, but only specified to music? | 12:34 |
| ralsina | No, it's not the same. | 12:34 |
| ralsina | You could, of course, just put MP3 files in your Ubuntu One folder | 12:34 |
| ralsina | But ubuntu one also supports streaming your music to mobile devices. | 12:35 |
| ralsina | So you can listen to your music without having to sync it to the device. | 12:35 |
| ralsina | I missed a question by Ddorda: "will the Ubuntu One server become open sourced in the future?" | 12:36 |
| ralsina | Ddorda: there are two answers to that question | 12:36 |
| ralsina | One answer is "I don't know" | 12:36 |
| ralsina | The other is that there's nothing preventing the implementation of a free server, but currently Canonical is not doing it. | 12:37 |
| ralsina | Back to music: you can stream any music you have, not just the songs you buy from the Ubuntu One Music Store, BTW | 12:38 |
| ralsina | more about the server: the protocol is open, and there's an open source implementation of the protocol at http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone-storage-protocol | 12:39 |
| ralsina | Ok, so, back to Ubuntu One | 12:40 |
| ralsina | I would like to share some of the plans we have | 12:41 |
| ralsina | We are currently working on creating reasonable APIs so 3rd parties can use them to develop interesting applications that take advantage of Ubuntu One services. | 12:42 |
| ralsina | Just think about what that could be used for. | 12:42 |
| ralsina | And if you come up with an interesting use, please tell me about it :-) | 12:42 |
| === xindz is now known as xindz`off | ||
| ralsina | For the next version, we will have a completely new control panel, which is much more capable than the current one. | 12:43 |
| ralsina | And there are lots of new services coming I can't mention ;-) | 12:44 |
| ralsina | We are releasing a whole new Windows client, that' s a complete rewrite. | 12:44 |
| ralsina | Question by danyR: " photo syncing between shotwell, your own cloud and mobile devices, isn't that right?" | 12:45 |
| ralsina | Yes, that is planned. | 12:45 |
| ralsina | It' s not done yet, but is scheduled for Natty Narwhal. | 12:46 |
| ralsina | Also, there is a lot of integration with the new Unity shell, that should provide a great user experience. | 12:46 |
| ralsina | We are trying to make Ubuntu One a seamless part of the Ubuntu desktop. | 12:47 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif: QUESTION: You mentioned something about music syncing/streaming, how would we go about using that? Is it also over the Internet or only at our home network? Is there a limit to how much music can be synced/streamed? | 12:48 |
| ralsina | How much music you can sync depends only on how much storage you have available. | 12:48 |
| ralsina | And I have seen a 2TB storage plan (really ;-) | 12:48 |
| ralsina | The streaming is currently only supported for mobile devices, and it works over wifi or 3G | 12:49 |
| ralsina | But I have seen at least one hack to make it work on a desktop. | 12:49 |
| ralsina | Of course strwaming music to a mobile device can be expensive, depending on your data plan. | 12:50 |
| ralsina | danyR: QUESTION: how about an OSX port? | 12:50 |
| ralsina | danyR: not scheduled, but if I can make my Qt client... well, it's half way there. Probably many OSX users would hate using a non-customized portable UI, but it can be done. | 12:50 |
| ralsina | danyR: make that TWO hacks to stream on the desktop ;-) | 12:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 12:51 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif: QUESTION: Would it be possible to sync an entire Ubuntu account (the one you log in) with Ubuntu One? =D | 12:52 |
| ralsina | MrChrisDruif: well, I am going to try to do something like that as an experiment (that' s ehy I have 80GB of storage right now ;-) | 12:52 |
| ralsina | But I expect it' s impractical. | 12:52 |
| ralsina | There is a project called oneconf that syncs your apps configuration over Ubuntu One | 12:52 |
| ralsina | danyR: QUESTION: what's the current status of oneconf? ubiquity integration not planned for natty, is it? | 12:53 |
| ralsina | I am not sure on the schedule for oneconf | 12:53 |
| ralsina | So, using oneconf and the ability to share selected folders and files, you can get *almost* to sharing your whole account | 12:54 |
| ralsina | A quick check tells me it would take 2 months to upload my current home folder, so keep that in mind when you choose what to sync ;-) | 12:54 |
| ralsina | And as aquarius said on -chat, sharing the settings is not a trivial task | 12:55 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 12:56 |
| ralsina | You can share the config files, sure, but then when you have the same app running at the same time on two devices, you are going to get conflicts. | 12:56 |
| ralsina | Ok, ask questions or we wrap :-) | 12:56 |
| ralsina | Feel free to contact me here for questions in the future, I am here most of the day at #ubuntuone | 12:57 |
| ralsina | I think that' s all then :-) | 12:57 |
| ralsina | it was great to have this conversation with you people, have a nice day! | 12:58 |
| ralsina | danyR: QUESTION: where do you see Ubuntu One in 1 year? where, for what, could it be used? | 12:58 |
| ralsina | let' s see if I can answer that in 2 minutes :-) | 12:58 |
| ralsina | danyR: I expect the local storage will become the place where you put stuff that' s not important, or too large to move over the air. | 12:59 |
| ralsina | I also expect many apps will use Ubuntu One implicitly | 12:59 |
| ralsina | in the sense that you will not even know it' sthere, but data will just be available for you everywhere. | 13:00 |
| ralsina | And I don' t think I can explain much more over IRC in one minute :-) | 13:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Finding Help in Ubuntu - Instructors: starcraftman | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 13:01 |
| cjohnston | Thank you ralsina! Up next is starcraftman! | 13:01 |
| starcraftman | Hello folks :) No big introduction this time cjohnston? | 13:02 |
| starcraftman | Well no matter, hi everyone I'm starcraft.man you can find more about me on my wiki page > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/starcraft.man. In short I'm a computer science major, part of the beginners team as well as a few others. Done a little bit of everything. Today's topic will be focussing on support and finding help. | 13:04 |
| starcraftman | I've got my speech pre-written so I'll be moving considerably quickly after this, please follow allong. This lecture is interactive in so far as I'd like everyone to follow the sites I go to. Please reserve questions for the end. Write them in a text editor like gedit so you don't forget. :) | 13:05 |
| starcraftman | I will be copy/pasting from now so it will go a little quick, and now on with the session. | 13:06 |
| starcraftman | Section 0 - Introduction | 13:06 |
| starcraftman | I'll be covering an important topic today. What to do when things go wrong. It happens to everyone and dealing with it correctly can save a lot of trouble. | 13:06 |
| starcraftman | An overview of the material to be covered today is available on the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays/01232010/FindingHelp | 13:07 |
| starcraftman | Take a moment and look over it while I continue with the introduction. At the end you'll notice a links section. I'll be mentioning these as I go, they are listed for convenience. | 13:07 |
| starcraftman | Please keep questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat as with other sessions. I'd prefer if they were reserved for the end. You're free to ask them during and hopefully someone else can respond. I don't want to be stopping at every question I've a lot of stuff to mention, I'm also pretty sure I've covered most things people will question by end. | 13:07 |
| starcraftman | I'll try to pace these out not too fast. | 13:07 |
| starcraftman | If your question remains unanswered by end, I'll take it then from the queue. Please make sure you keep them prefaced with Question so people can see them. | 13:08 |
| starcraftman | Things go wrong. Especially when you can least afford it. | 13:08 |
| starcraftman | The same way gravity unfortunately is still there when you wake up in the morning even if you were dreaming of flying. | 13:08 |
| starcraftman | One minute you are typing away merrily on your word processor then..... | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | [Insert program crash here with some profanity about lost work] | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | Maybe you just finished installing some updates and wham! | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | Some unknown error appears on screen and you don't know what to do. | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | The first rule of getting help is DON'T PANIC. Incidentally, this is also written in big bold letters on the back of a certain book for Hitchhiker's trekking the galaxy. | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | I'd say it's a very good first rule. | 13:09 |
| starcraftman | The focus of this session will dealing with such problems like the aforementioned in a simple and effective manner. By the end, you should be able to gather simple information and on any problem and find help from the most appropriate resource. | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | Section I - Preparing for Help | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | The title sounds a bit silly doesn't it? | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | You'd be surprised how just a few steps make all the difference finding good help. | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | Mostly it will help you narrow the focus of your search. If you reach out to someone else on forums or in person, it's easier to bring them up to speed. | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | The average user skips this step. Usually this is followed by an attempt to use bad or limited information to fix the problem. The result is getting flustered. At this point they usually reach out to someone else, say on a forum or by email to a friend. This results in more annoyance as they answer many questions they didn't consider at first to give the expert necessary information. | 13:10 |
| starcraftman | In the end, users can get very angry/frustrated. | 13:11 |
| starcraftman | Posting on a forum in a bad mood “My video is broken, FIX IT!” is not a good way to get help. | 13:11 |
| starcraftman | Consider (as some may know) that the forums are staffed, moderated and questions answered by volunteers not being paid. None of above like seeing rants posted. | 13:11 |
| starcraftman | If you speak like that to your tech friend, well, I don't think he'll be your friend after giving you the fix. | 13:11 |
| starcraftman | More to the point, a lot of your time got wasted. You got upset. You also didn't resolve the problem given the time invested. | 13:11 |
| starcraftman | This leads to rule 2 “Try to spend time solving a problem yourself before you ask other people for help. If you follow this common courtesy, then it will not be an imposition when you ask for help.” That's from community wiki. | 13:12 |
| starcraftman | Section 1a – Analysis | 13:12 |
| starcraftman | When something goes wrong, the first thing that's important to do is think what just happened? What was I doing? What crashed? What did I see? | 13:12 |
| starcraftman | Get a piece of paper and a pen and immediately write the answers to those questions down. Write in plain language all the details, you may not think it's important but the person who helps you might disagree. | 13:12 |
| starcraftman | Say for example evolution mail client just crashed, and there's a window that popped up stating so with an error and asking you to file a report. Take down the error, note what you were doing. | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | If the error is a graphical one (like the error window popping up) you might want to take a screenshot of this. | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | Screenshots are just a way of taking an image of the screen, works on Linux just like Windows. Push print screen on the keyboard. Doing so will open up a screenshot application (on any Ubuntu variant), from there save the image to your Desktop. | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | (you can try to printscreen now if you like) | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | We'll see what to do with this image later. | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | Another helpful thing to do in advance of getting help is knowing your hardware (this can especially help with networking/graphics problems). An easy way to get a complete listing of your hardware is to use the following simple command in any terminal (open from menus Applications > Accessories >Terminal) and using the command: | 13:13 |
| starcraftman | sudo lshw > ~/Desktop/hardware.txt | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | This command creates a file called hardware.txt that you can open and browse on your desktop. It lists all components of your PC, CPU, RAM, Graphics card, Network interfaces, etc... There are a few commands that produce more precise output (like just listing PCI cards) but this covers everything with one shot. | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | The similar commands are lspci, lsusb, lsbpcmia, all listing what the command is named. | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | Very useful. | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | After jotting down this information and taking a screenshot we can proceed to play detective. Ask yourself what went wrong? | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | Did the internet stop working for instance? That would be a networking issue. | 13:14 |
| starcraftman | IT detective work involves narrowing things down through categories, you start at the top and work your way down specifying at each new level until the problem is clear. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | You might not have enough experience to solve it completely, but getting a start with what you know can go a long way. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | It's hard to say how much effort you should put in before moving on. Usually it becomes clear when you can no longer write or deduce anything else. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | Section 2 - Power Searching Google | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | So the first stop is a search engine. I'll use Google for this example, any engine should work. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | The reason to search is another rule- If you're having a problem, 99.9% of the time someone else has had the same one and posted its solution. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | At this point, if everyone can go to www.google.com that'd be great. | 13:15 |
| starcraftman | Or your local version . I recommend google.ca :) | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | Power searching is when you do more than simply type key words into Google. By default, each word is searched successively. For example, do the following three searches seperately in Google and see the difference: | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | DC Batman Robin Crusader | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | “DC Batman Robin Crusader” | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | DC OR Batman OR Robin OR Crusader | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | The first time (first search with no quotes) Google searches for DC and finds all pages with references to it, then cross-references with all pages with Batman. The overlap becomes the new base and then further narrowed by overlap with Robin and Crusader. The search operation descends one word at a time, so the first word is most important and more general usually. | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | When searching in Google “DC Batman Robin Crusader” you get 0 results (actually 1, an old pastebin of my speach), very different from before. In this instance, Google searched for the string (a computer science term referring to the quoted line) as a whole, the exact sequence of words in the order inside the quotes is simply never used (it is incoherent as a sentence after all). The last one returns well over a million | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | results. | 13:16 |
| starcraftman | Now time to get to the meat of this. Everyone go to Google homepage and click “Advanced” on the right. | 13:17 |
| starcraftman | Here's the advanced search page, a lot of people don't know about it. It is very handy. | 13:17 |
| starcraftman | Immediately I'd like you to note the box at the top highlighted in blue stating “Use the form...”, here you will see the actual search string used when you enable all these advanced tricks. Look up every time you try something else. | 13:18 |
| starcraftman | This means that this is the actual search you could use alternatively in the standard Google Search box, you'll see what I mean as I go. | 13:18 |
| starcraftman | First two lines cover what I've already explained. | 13:18 |
| starcraftman | The third is the Boolean OR search. This means that rather than only take the overlap (or intersection) between DC and Batman, a search for DC OR Batman would include all results from the individual searches for DC and all results from Batman. Rather than narrow down this really widens a search with every new result, use carefully. | 13:18 |
| starcraftman | "Don't show these pages" does exactly what it says, put keywords here and all pages with them will be subtracted from the search. Excellent at excluding specific things. | 13:18 |
| starcraftman | "Search within site or domain" is another useful one. Your entire search is then confined to the site listed. You can also limit by domain, so .edu limits it to educational websites indexed by Google on the internet. | 13:19 |
| starcraftman | Take a moment and play around with these modifiers to search, take note of the top line that shows how the modifiers are used. You can combine many, like a site search, all these words and language. | 13:19 |
| starcraftman | (just in case folks need, direct link > http://www.google.ca/advanced_search?hl=en) | 13:20 |
| starcraftman | "Filetype" does as it says and limits your search to an extension, say .pdf or .txt. Any extension is valid (though limited in the drop down, on a text search you specify what you want). | 13:20 |
| starcraftman | Language and results are self explanatory. | 13:20 |
| starcraftman | Click on "Date, usage rights, numeric range, and more..." here you'll find even more advanced though less commonly used modifiers. | 13:20 |
| starcraftman | These are mostly obvious, you can check pages by date, search with numeric ranges (like price), confine it to a geographic region, search based on sites usage rights (click the link for more explanation on that, its outside my scope). | 13:21 |
| starcraftman | Page specific tools are interesting, first one lets you specify a page and google will find something similar. Second lets you identify pages that link to page x. | 13:21 |
| starcraftman | One thing not here is wildcard modifier for search. | 13:21 |
| starcraftman | * is the wildcard. Say I knew part of a word, say.... nvidia but I only knew it started with nvid. Searching nvid* produces nvidia as top result. It isn't always most useful given there might be words that complete the wildcard that you maybe don't want included. | 13:21 |
| starcraftman | Careful with wildcards, they can be quite loose depending on how much of the word you put and googles ranking algorithm. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | I don't have time to go into all of them. I will warn, don't be tempted to use too many. The more you employ the less results will appear. Often just one or two of these modifiers makes the difference. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | Say you have a video problem, you want to check whether other people have had trouble with it. It's an nvidia 8800GT. You know Ubuntu Forums usually has people posting about such things. You fill "ubuntuforums.org" in Site Search box, "nvidia 8800 GT" in all these words then search. Voila. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | I don't have time to cover all the nuance of power searching. I will leave you with a good site for those interested. http://www.googleguide.com/ . See the section start now that best applies to you. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | Another page to note is Ubuntu Search at http://search.ubuntu.com/ | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | As it says on its homepage, by default it only searches Ubuntu related sites like the Wikis and Forums. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | Though it doesn't have an advanced option per se, I'm pretty sure it supports most of the above function. You just have to do it manually via text modifiers. | 13:22 |
| starcraftman | lil pause here again, so people can catch up. | 13:23 |
| starcraftman | off we go again then.... | 13:24 |
| starcraftman | Section 3 - System Documentation and Wiki | 13:24 |
| starcraftman | For this section we will cover Ubuntu's official documentation. | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | System Docs are the documentation that comes with any standard Ubuntu installation, these are accessible locally even without a net connection. | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | On the main panel, notice the blue question mark. Please click it. If you don't have it, see System > Help and Support (KDE users open up K Menu and search for help, first option). | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | Note: If your not on Ubuntu at this moment, you won't of course. | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | Here you will find the documentation promised. It's a gem overlooked often by people in need of help. Feel free to click around. | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | On the main page at the right you'll see some common questions. At the left is most of the main sections covered like "New to Ubuntu?", go ahead and click it, new options appear, pick what you like. You can always go back to beginning with the Home button (the house) on the Toolbar at the top. | 13:25 |
| starcraftman | The documentation contains a lot of answers to common questions and introductory material you can read to understand Ubuntu. | 13:26 |
| starcraftman | Do a test search and scroll to the bottom. You'll see repeat this search online, click it. Presto, you're back at search.ubuntu.com, nifty. I only just found that one. | 13:26 |
| starcraftman | Feel free to take a while and explore a bit. | 13:26 |
| starcraftman | Go back to homepage pls (push home button as mentioned on the toolbar). | 13:26 |
| starcraftman | I'd like to note at the home page you can find the Free Support link, directing you to a lot of materials I'll talk about. | 13:27 |
| starcraftman | A new project to mention quick is the manual project. It's a pdf that serves as a beginners tutorial, does offer explanations of many common things. While not a diagnostic tool per se it can be searched by contents and text search, see http://ubuntu-manual.org/ for more details. | 13:27 |
| starcraftman | Next is the Wikis, we have two. | 13:28 |
| starcraftman | The help wiki you'll be most interested in is at- https://help.ubuntu.com/ . The other site is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ . This second site I tell you to prevent confusion, it is primarily for organization of teams. Help.ubuntu.com as the name implies stores all the help documents. Use the first one, not the second. | 13:28 |
| starcraftman | People often don't understand, these are official sites. They aren't like a wikia, a spin off by fans. | 13:28 |
| starcraftman | So take a moment and load up https://help.ubuntu.com/ | 13:28 |
| starcraftman | Here you'll see listed the versions of Ubuntu still in support (i.e. 10.10, 10.04, these are links to their documentation). Clicking any of the versions will take you to an online version of the system pages, useful if you need it on the internet for reference. | 13:29 |
| starcraftman | (if your not on Ubuntu at this moment, you can now browse system docs) | 13:29 |
| starcraftman | Some people prefer the system docs in their browser, it's got a different feel. The content is to my knowledge exactly the same though. | 13:29 |
| starcraftman | At the bottom you'll see a link on upgrade notes, useful for upgrades. | 13:29 |
| starcraftman | More interesting is the community link, please click it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ < to be clear. | 13:29 |
| starcraftman | This is the main wiki area it is maintained entirely by the community (folks like me) in an effort to document the software of Ubuntu and problems that arise. Browse all the information on the main page. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | The bulk of documentation is in English, it is however translated into other languages and available. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | You can of course probably use google translate if you need. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | See the "Getting Started with Ubuntu" section. Here is some beginner stuff you can read, there are also three subsequent sections underneath with useful links to stuff beginners need like Installation help and learning more information about their system. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | This is all good reading material even if you don't have an immediate problem. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | Next, have a look at the "Finding Your Way with Ubuntu" section. | 13:30 |
| starcraftman | Say hello to Signpost. | 13:31 |
| starcraftman | Its aim is simple, to start with the general and try and narrow down to the right information. | 13:31 |
| starcraftman | Click "get some Help", and click around some. It's fairly easy. Different sections have different focus, some on help, filing bugs, some for programmers. See what you need. | 13:31 |
| starcraftman | Now lastly, search (top right). Say for example I'm having a video problem with my nvidia card. It won't display my maximum resolution. Do a quick search here for "video nvidia" and see what pops up. Or maybe I just want to learn a good way to backup my system... search for "backup system". Shameless plug, top result is one of my pages. Good reading. | 13:31 |
| starcraftman | Search will present you with relevant pages, as long as you know what you're looking for. If you do the preparation at the beginning this shouldn't be a problem. | 13:32 |
| starcraftman | The community wiki is my preferred resource for a wide variety of problems. It's up to date and usually covers problems/software in a timely fashion. | 13:32 |
| starcraftman | Another little pause, ahead of my schedule I think. Have a little look around the wiki :). | 13:32 |
| starcraftman | ok, that's good. You'll have time to explore more later, logs of this are available. On we go to more sections! | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | Section 4 – Forums | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | Next, www.ubuntuforums.org | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | An excellent site, when in doubt posting here is reasonably certain to get you a good answer. There's an art to posting though, as well as a wrong way to do it. | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | While I'm explaining, feel free to sign up, click Register at left. | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | Forums are openID enabled so if you know what that is, you can use it. | 13:34 |
| starcraftman | First let's look at the structure. The most relevant section is Absolute Beginners Talk. It's come to be a catch all for new people and just problems in general, it gets the most eyeballs. If you post here with reasonable amount of information problem is usually resolved in one or two posts. | 13:35 |
| starcraftman | The next section is the Main Support Categories, it offers more specialized help for those with... more exotic problems. Advanced server configurations or some more obscure problems. It's less used by beginners and is less frequented by support people. I'd encourage you to stick with ABT unless you've posted there and not gotten a reply in a reasonable time. | 13:35 |
| starcraftman | The remainder of the site is aimed less at support than discussion/development. You can peruse it at your own leisure. | 13:36 |
| starcraftman | Time to discuss posting etiquette on the forums, what to do/not do. | 13:36 |
| starcraftman | We have a full list of things you have to agree to at register I believe, this is just a rundown of pet peeves and things that really shouldn't happen. | 13:37 |
| starcraftman | Don't TYPE IN CAPS OR with LOTS of exclamations!!!!! CAPS usually infer yelling and exclamations excessively used are annoying. | 13:37 |
| starcraftman | Don't curse or insult other members offering help. If you wouldn't say it to someone standing next to you, it generally shouldn't be posted. | 13:37 |
| starcraftman | Don't demand help in the title/topic like "Fix this or I'm leaving Ubuntu". We aren't prone to offering better help when threatened. This is an unfortunate practice by people who get frustrated, it also gets attention quickly. It is incredibly rude and doesn't make things easier. | 13:37 |
| starcraftman | Don't post in the ABT, wait a minute then repost the same thread in different sections. This is annoying. Post in one section (I recommend ABT) and wait for response. It may take 10 minutes or 20, or more, no more than a few hours usually. If so, you can bump your forum post. | 13:38 |
| starcraftman | A bump of course is just you replying to the post and pushing it back to the top of cue of threads so it is noticed. | 13:38 |
| starcraftman | Now a few pointers to actual posting, you can click New Reply somewhere (doesn't matter where) to follow along (just don't submit please). | 13:38 |
| starcraftman | To be clear, Do NOT push submit on the post, this is just so you see the advanced features to posting. | 13:38 |
| starcraftman | Incidentally, in case it wasn't clear, you need to be signed in to post. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | Do make your post title pertinent to your problem. If you don't have any internet on the machine then "I don't have internet" is better than "problem needs fixing". You don't need to convey too much information, just the general category of problem. Including the version of Ubuntu might also be good. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | To the left of title you'll find prefix, please select your version of Ubuntu. When it's solved, edit your first post and change the prefix to Solved. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | The solved tag is useful, it tells people searching the archives your problem was resolved. So they can rely on the proposed fix. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | This is nice, also goes back to one of the rules. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | I'd like to make a note here- to the right of the title is "Check if Already Posted". Please click this after writing in a title it will quickly search all previous posts for related information. Experiment with different titles. Often your question has already been answered. Don't be afraid to detour and read some of these pages, you can always return to new post and submit it. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | Just another way of preventing double posts, we get a lot of similar questions. | 13:39 |
| starcraftman | Goes back to the 99.9% of all problems have happened before :). | 13:40 |
| starcraftman | In your first post, try to put as much information as you can. Now is the time to consult that page we wrote earlier. Explain what you were doing, what went wrong, and what you have since learned (maybe from wiki). Nothing's too small, at the same time, don't write pages. | 13:40 |
| starcraftman | Take a note of the GUI at top of the forum reply, there is # button. | 13:40 |
| starcraftman | This is for the code tag. | 13:40 |
| starcraftman | people will often use it responding, if you want to post the hardware.txt file output use these tags. It stops the page overflowing. | 13:40 |
| starcraftman | Puts an inline scrollbar instead. Handy. | 13:41 |
| starcraftman | Screenshots can be hosted at sites like http://www.imgur.com or as attachments to the post (scroll down on new post page, click Manage Attachments). These are very useful. | 13:41 |
| starcraftman | Images hosted on imgur you just copy the forum link and paste in the body of reply. The attachments way automates this. No preference to me, attachments do better integrate with site. | 13:41 |
| starcraftman | When you're happy with your post, submit it. Someone should get back to you with instructions in a timely and friendly fashion. | 13:41 |
| starcraftman | Some people ask how do I know the instructions will help? Or to trust the person giving? Well, there isn't a rule per se. | 13:41 |
| starcraftman | I for instance have an almost 3000 post count, does that imply a user should trust me? I guess. Though when I started posting I only had a post count of 1, my knowledge has improved since but my advice was still usually helpful based on what I knew. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | The rule I'd say is, does it sound right and well explained? A person who knows their stuff should be able to convey relevant information and convince you it's the right thing to do. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | A few closing comments on the forums. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | It's a helpful resource, it harnesses the collective experience of thousands of geeks like me. Do remember we all volunteer for no pay. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | Also, a few helpful links you might enjoy are- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1052065 | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | A free beginners guide PDF to getting started. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=801404 | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | A general launch point to many good forum guides written by people who know their stuff. | 13:42 |
| starcraftman | Peruse them on your own. These links are good for general learning. Like the wiki. | 13:43 |
| starcraftman | Section 4.5 - IRC (Real quick) | 13:43 |
| starcraftman | nhandler is covering this later. I only want to point out that IRC can be used for support. Channels such as #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #ubuntu-beginners are all good stops. A good run down of channels and getting help is available here- https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat | 13:43 |
| starcraftman | don't click the #links, that will open IRC client to somewhere else). | 13:44 |
| starcraftman | The web page lists the channels, what they focus and how to fix her up. maco will give more details. | 13:44 |
| starcraftman | oops, maco -> nhandler hehe | 13:44 |
| starcraftman | Anyway, that's that, on to the next stop. | 13:44 |
| starcraftman | Section 5 – Launchpad | 13:44 |
| starcraftman | I'm going to try and make this brief, I don't want to cover charlie-tca's topic (see agenda for time), he's devoting a whole hour to launchpad. | 13:45 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad is however the place to go when all of the above doesn't get you an answer. You have two choices. | 13:45 |
| starcraftman | First is the answers section, see here- https://answers.launchpad.net/ | 13:45 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad Answers is basically a section designed to let the people working on the projects answer your question. | 13:45 |
| starcraftman | Please note, you need to be signed up to use this site. If you want, you can sign up now in preparation for later with charlie-tca. A nice plus, any launchpad account is automatically an opened, can be used on other sites supporting such login. | 13:45 |
| starcraftman | Say I have a problem with music playing in rhythmbox, so esoteric that none of the above helped. | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | (by above, I mean the other resources) | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | Go to answers home, click choose one project and type in rhythmbox. This takes you right to the project answer section. See if your problem is listed. If not, you can file a question here in much the same way as you would a bug (bug filing is last resort). | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | Click ask a new question and fill it out. Someone should get back to you in a reasonable time. (don't file a question at this time...) | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | People are very active in the Ubuntu project answering the Answers section, you might consider posting there more generally before in a specific project like rhythmbox. | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | Next is a quick bug filing run down. Click bugs section at the top of rhythmbox. At the right, on top of ask a question is now Report a Bug. | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | Click this only if you want to file a bug, please don't file them without being sure it's a bug and having searched existing bugs. Devs get a lot of duplicates that don't help. | 13:46 |
| starcraftman | There's a structure to filling reports, ddecator will cover this. It's important to put more not less info, as specific as you can so devs can reproduce bugs, test and fix. | 13:47 |
| starcraftman | Launchpad is a good service, though I'm more of a doc person so I guess I'm biased to recommend system then wiki docs. | 13:47 |
| starcraftman | That's it on LP, please stay tuned later for more. | 13:47 |
| starcraftman | Section 6 – AskUbuntu.com | 13:47 |
| starcraftman | So now a new interesting site that I haven't covered previously. AskUbuntu. Please go to the following url: http://askubuntu.com/questions . It's a Stack Overflow type site that some may be familiar with. | 13:47 |
| starcraftman | Basically, you can post questions on the site and tag them with certain keywords. Other users then look through the unanswered section and write answers. Answers are voted up or down based on other users thoughts and you can validate that the users answer is the best or not helpful at all. | 13:48 |
| starcraftman | To start using you can sign up if you want in top right (login). It isn't strictly required. | 13:48 |
| starcraftman | Use the Ask Question > button in the header to make a question and then wait a while until it gets an answer. | 13:48 |
| starcraftman | You'll also see a Tags section, where you can search based on sorted tags to find questions already asked. | 13:48 |
| starcraftman | Unanswered section like name implies sorts and lists questions that are still open and waiting an answer. Lastly, there is Users sections. Here you can see the history of a person's answers on the site, maybe you want to know if they have a good history of suggestions. You can also see their shiny badges I suppose. | 13:48 |
| starcraftman | The Site isn't directly run by Ubuntu, but many of it's top contributors are long standing members of the community. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | That's about it, poke around and don't be shy to ask questions. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | Section 7 – Closing | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | When confronted by a problem, stop and think. Don't panic. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | Write down all pertinent information that you know. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | Then use the right resource. I usually start with the system or wiki documentation. Or a Google search. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | http://search.ubuntu.com is fast becoming a favourite of mine to get quick answers as it indexes most of the good resources. | 13:49 |
| starcraftman | If looking on your own fails to turn up help, I'd next suggest the forums or IRC. Search them carefully and if you can't find relevant info ask in ABT for help with all the information you know. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | Next if that doesn't work, see Launchpad answers/bug system as relevant. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | There's no hard fast rule, it's more of an experience thing finding good answers. The more you do it the easier it becomes. It's not too intimidating now I hope. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | Do please consider where the information comes from before doing anything, if you do a Google search and you find a lone blog post detailing an answer with no comments or any affiliation with Ubuntu that's been abandoned by the poster, you should hesitate. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | Where the information comes from is important. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | Just like quoting wikipedia ain't gonna cut it on a term paper. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | I know it's a lot of information to absorb, I hope you've found it helpful. | 13:50 |
| starcraftman | I have extra links I may not have mentioned on my outline as listed at the beginning. Click and browse them at your leisure. | 13:51 |
| starcraftman | I guess we can open questions, to do so orderly please follow the question format. | 13:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 13:51 |
| starcraftman | /Begin_Asking_Questions | 13:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 13:56 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: How to fix a broken machine - Instructors: popey | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 14:01 |
| cjohnston | up next is popey... | 14:01 |
| cjohnston | popey needs a couple minutes, so we will start shortly | 14:01 |
| === starcraft is now known as starcraftman | ||
| popey | Hello | 14:06 |
| popey | == Introduction == | 14:07 |
| popey | Hello, I am Alan Pope. I'm a member of my LoCo Team in the UK where we make a little podcast <http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/>. I'm also on the Ubuntu Community Council, LoCo Council and EMEA Membership Board. | 14:07 |
| popey | I try to give people support in #ubuntu and #ubuntu-uk and on http://askubuntu.com/ when I get time. | 14:07 |
| popey | This session is called "How to fix a broken machine". | 14:08 |
| popey | The target audience for this session is 'People who may at some point experience a broken Ubuntu machine' - which lets face it is potentially everyone :) | 14:08 |
| popey | The goal of the session is to empower people to fix their own computer when something goes wrong. | 14:08 |
| popey | What do I mean by "goes wrong" and "broken"? | 14:08 |
| popey | The types of issues I am thinking of are the 'potential show-stoppers' which could be described using phrases like:- | 14:09 |
| popey | "When I turn my computer on I get..." | 14:09 |
| popey | "... no desktop or logon screen!" | 14:09 |
| popey | "... a black screen!" | 14:09 |
| popey | "... some crazy text I don't understand!" | 14:09 |
| popey | Has this ever happened to you? | 14:09 |
| popey | (It has to me, on more occasions than I can remember!) | 14:09 |
| popey | == What I will cover == | 14:10 |
| popey | * An overview of the boot process | 14:10 |
| popey | * What goes wrong | 14:10 |
| popey | * Toolbox contents | 14:10 |
| popey | * Diagnosing issues | 14:10 |
| popey | * Solving some problems that occur | 14:10 |
| popey | I'm happy to take questions any time :D | 14:10 |
| popey | == What I can't cover == | 14:10 |
| popey | * Installations of Ubuntu using WUBI (Windows on Ubuntu Installer) | 14:10 |
| popey | - Whilst many bits are similar between a 'bare metal' install of Ubuntu and one done inside Windows, I've not had enough experience of it to speak about it confidently | 14:10 |
| popey | == WARNING! == | 14:11 |
| popey | Despite this being a 'user day' I will be using the command line! | 14:11 |
| popey | The reason for this is that when there are show-stopping bugs which prevent you getting a GUI up and running, the command line is the best way to fix the issue. | 14:11 |
| popey | Note: I do not consider 'reinstall Ubuntu' as a fix, it's a work-around. | 14:11 |
| popey | Ok, so lets start.. | 14:11 |
| popey | = An overview of the boot process = | 14:11 |
| popey | (simplified) | 14:11 |
| popey | (massively) | 14:11 |
| popey | So what actually happens on a standard installation of Ubuntu on a pretty normal Intel/AMD based PC? | 14:12 |
| popey | (the reason I say Intel/AMD based PC is because things are a little different on ARM, Phones, Macs etc) | 14:12 |
| popey | Right after you power on, a bunch of checks are done, hardware is looked for and eventually the BIOS (chip on the motherboard) does some hardware checks called POST (Power On Self Test) | 14:12 |
| popey | If those pass (and your BIOS is configured correctly) then the BIOS will then go looking for a device to boot from. | 14:12 |
| popey | <http://www.howstuffworks.com/pc3.htm> describes that process in a little more detail. | 14:13 |
| popey | 14:13 | |
| popey | Under normal circumstances you can boot from:- | 14:13 |
| popey | - An internal hard disk (be that of a spinning variety or a new fangled SSD (Solid State Drive) | 14:13 |
| popey | - An external device attached via USB | 14:13 |
| popey | - Some kind of optical device (like a CD or DVD) | 14:13 |
| popey | - A network server - often called PXE (Pre-boot eXecution Environment) | 14:13 |
| popey | - Some other magic from the future that hasn't been invented yet. | 14:14 |
| popey | 14:14 | |
| popey | Lets assume that it's booting from a local hard disk which happens to contain Ubuntu. | 14:14 |
| popey | 14:14 | |
| popey | The BIOS will look for an MBR (Master Boot Record) which is located at the start of the disk. We call this 'Stage 1' | 14:14 |
| popey | The MBR is pretty small and contains enough program code to find, load and execute the next part of the boot process. | 14:14 |
| popey | The program used on Ubuntu is called GRUB (Grand Unified Bootloader), and we call this 'Stage 2'. | 14:14 |
| popey | Optionally at this point we may get a menu displayed by GRUB. If no menu appears then it can be triggered by pressing and holding down the [SHIFT] key as GRUB loads. | 14:15 |
| popey | (the menu is configured based on files in /boot/grub/ - specifically /boot/grub/grub.cfg) | 14:15 |
| popey | (older versions of GRUB in previous releases of Ubuntu used a different file) | 14:15 |
| popey | The menu contains a list of operating systems to boot from. If one is selected from the menu then it will continue the boot process.. | 14:15 |
| popey | The next step is to load the operating system selected in GRUB, this is usually a two-stage operation. | 14:15 |
| popey | (well, technically it's a many many stage operation, but I'm simplifying remember) :) | 14:16 |
| popey | First a small Linux Kernel is loaded which is called an 'Initial RAMdisk' (although you may see it called 'initrd' or 'initramfs'. | 14:16 |
| popey | Secondly the actual Linux Kernel which will be used by your desktop/laptop is loaded. The Kernel has drivers for many things, and will go through its initialisation process loading whatever drivers are necessary. | 14:16 |
| popey | Some are built into the Kernel image when it's compiled by the developers. | 14:16 |
| popey | Some are 'modules' which the Kernel can load in and run after it's started running. | 14:16 |
| popey | (the kernel usually figures out what modules to load, but sometimes it needs a little help) | 14:17 |
| popey | Once the Kernel is up and running it hands over to a program called 'init' (short for Initialisation). On Ubuntu 'init' is provided by a package called 'Upstart'. | 14:17 |
| popey | init/upstart then takes care of loading all the subsequent programs required to get the desktop up and running. | 14:17 |
| popey | (which you might see listed in places like /etc/rc2.d/ ) | 14:17 |
| popey | At some point during that last process GDM (GNOME Display Manager) will load. This will present the logon screen (or not if you chose to skip the logon screen). | 14:18 |
| === xindz`off is now known as xindz | ||
| popey | (KDE and XFCE use other display managers like KDM) | 14:18 |
| popey | Once you have logged in your desktop starts. | 14:18 |
| popey | 14:18 | |
| popey | So thats BIOS -> MBR -> Stage 1 -> Stage 2 (GRUB) -> Initial RAMdisk -> Kernel -> init (Upstart) -> GDM -> Desktop | 14:18 |
| popey | (roughly speaking) | 14:18 |
| popey | As I said, massively simplified. If you'd like to know more about the boot process I'd recommend reading this page (which is quite technical, but interesting):- | 14:19 |
| popey | http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-linuxboot/ | 14:19 |
| popey | 14:19 | |
| popey | You can find out more about GRUB at:- | 14:19 |
| popey | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB | 14:19 |
| popey | 14:19 | |
| popey | You can find out more about Upstart at:- | 14:19 |
| popey | http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ | 14:19 |
| popey | 14:19 | |
| popey | Any questions about that boot process? | 14:19 |
| popey | 14:20 | |
| popey | = What goes wrong? = | 14:20 |
| popey | So now you know that the boot process consists of a bunch of parts linked together, lets see where it can all fall apart! | 14:20 |
| popey | 14:20 | |
| popey | == Hardware Failure == | 14:20 |
| popey | Commonly forgotten about when diagnosing issues with Ubuntu is that it's possible for hardware to fail. Some ways in which hardware can fail and what the result could be:- | 14:20 |
| popey | * Failing RAM | 14:20 |
| popey | - Unfortunately this can cause all kinds of issues which are often hard to pinpoint | 14:20 |
| popey | - Machine may not boot at all, it may boot to the BIOS and no further, or it may get part way through booting and then lock-up, shutdown or reboot. | 14:21 |
| popey | 14:21 | |
| popey | * Failing Disk | 14:21 |
| popey | - When a disk is failing it can also look like files are corrupted, so can look like a piece of software has gone wrong | 14:21 |
| popey | - Machine may not boot at all beyond the BIOS, or it may get part way through and (as with RAM issues) fail in sporadic or spectacular ways | 14:21 |
| popey | 14:21 | |
| popey | * Failing CPU | 14:21 |
| popey | - In my experience least likely, but can happen. More likely is failing to cool the CPU properly, so this could mean a failed heatsink/fan or broken down thermal paste between the CPU and heatsink. | 14:21 |
| popey | - Usually this results in a failure to boot at all, beeps during the POST or random crashes | 14:22 |
| popey | 14:22 | |
| popey | * Failing GPU (Video Card) | 14:22 |
| popey | - If completely failed then this can cause a machine to not boot, but beep in a cryptic but documented way when the video card is tested during boot up. | 14:22 |
| popey | - This often manifests itself as a blank screen or more commonly as colourful screen corruption, which may last all the way from the BIOS screen through to GDM. | 14:22 |
| popey | 14:22 | |
| popey | Ok, so that's a few ways in which hardware can fail, lets move on to see other ways we can fail. | 14:22 |
| popey | 14:23 | |
| popey | = BIOS = | 14:23 |
| popey | * Can't get past the BIOS boot screen | 14:23 |
| popey | * BIOS boots off wrong device | 14:23 |
| popey | 14:23 | |
| popey | == GRUB == | 14:23 |
| popey | * Can't boot past stage 1 or 2, but get a blank screen, or perhaps the GRUB menu, but can't get past it. | 14:23 |
| popey | 14:23 | |
| popey | == initramdisk == | 14:24 |
| popey | * Get dropped to an (initramfs) prompt | 14:24 |
| popey | 14:24 | |
| popey | All of which makes a user into a sad puppy :( | 14:24 |
| popey | 14:24 | |
| popey | == Kernel == | 14:24 |
| popey | * Kernel panic on boot | 14:24 |
| popey | * Kernel cannot find root file system | 14:24 |
| popey | * Graphics driver no loading | 14:24 |
| popey | 14:25 | |
| popey | ..and so on. So there's a large and diverse number of ways in which the system can fail to boot. Lets move on to look at some tools we can use to diagnose these issues. | 14:25 |
| popey | 14:25 | |
| popey | == Toolbox Contents == | 14:25 |
| popey | Here's some things that are useful to have when diagnosing issues! | 14:26 |
| popey | * Ubuntu Live CD | 14:26 |
| popey | - Essential because it contains the following great diagnostic utilities | 14:26 |
| popey | - Memtest, GRUB, GParted, a web browser in which you can go and find answers to all your questions :D -> see http://askubuntu.com/ | 14:26 |
| popey | 14:26 | |
| popey | * Ubuntu Live USB Key | 14:26 |
| popey | - Create using USB creator, UNetbootin, or by installing onto USB from CDROM (or other USB stick) | 14:26 |
| popey | - Useful for when you have netbook or other machine which has no optical drive | 14:26 |
| popey | - You can install from CD onto USB stick which means you can boot from it and add additional tools / utilities to the stick. | 14:27 |
| popey | I personally carry round a 32GB usb stick which has Ubuntu installed on it, and from there can diagnose issues with a hard disk based install. Very handy! | 14:27 |
| popey | * Ethernet Cable | 14:27 |
| popey | - For when wireless messes up :( | 14:27 |
| popey | * USB Hard disk | 14:27 |
| popey | - Useful for backing up the system | 14:27 |
| popey | * A backup of your existing system! <- most essential! | 14:28 |
| popey | * A backup of any passwords / encryption keys which may have been used to install the system | 14:28 |
| popey | 14:28 | |
| popey | == Diagnosing Issues == | 14:29 |
| popey | So given we now know the steps of the boot process we can identify potentially where issues can occur. First off I'd start by asking some questions:- | 14:29 |
| popey | * What has changed since the system worked? | 14:29 |
| popey | often the answer from the user is "nothing" and "I never touched it" | 14:29 |
| popey | (until you shine a light in their face and threaten them) | 14:30 |
| popey | So this could include:- | 14:30 |
| popey | - Hardware added / taken away / moved ? | 14:30 |
| popey | e.g. adding a new USB device on my desktop caused it not to boot! | 14:31 |
| popey | (the USB device was an Android phone) :( | 14:31 |
| popey | - Software updates, drivers added, new packages installed, packages removed? | 14:31 |
| popey | e.g. installing the latest and greatest applications you saw on omgubuntu! :D | 14:31 |
| popey | 14:32 | |
| popey | * What has been done differently today than on other days? | 14:32 |
| popey | Maybe today the user didn't plug in their external screen, but usually they do.. | 14:32 |
| popey | Any little change can potenially cause an issue. | 14:33 |
| popey | 14:33 | |
| popey | The final question:- | 14:33 |
| popey | * Do I have a backup of all my data and passwords/keys? | 14:33 |
| popey | Because it's entirely possible that the system is irreversibly broken, and if that's the case then new hardware or a reinstall may be the _only_ option. | 14:33 |
| popey | But I'd like to hope we can fix most things without a reinstall. | 14:33 |
| popey | 14:33 | |
| popey | == Solving Problems That Occur == | 14:34 |
| popey | 14:34 | |
| popey | Ok, so it's impossible in the next 30 minutes for me to go through every single possible scenario of what might go wrong :D | 14:34 |
| popey | But I can pick out a couple that are quite common | 14:34 |
| popey | And I can explain how to get your environment setup so you can diagnose these issues | 14:35 |
| popey | 14:35 | |
| popey | The main thing that's useful to do when you have a completely unbootable system, is to boot to another install and inspect the contents of the broken system | 14:35 |
| popey | That can be done in at least two ways:- | 14:35 |
| popey | 14:35 | |
| popey | 1. Pull the disk out of the broken machine and put it in another machine as a slave disk | 14:36 |
| popey | (this is actually impossible in some systems like the Asus Eee 900 where the SSD 'disk' is soldered onto the motherboard) | 14:36 |
| popey | (this is also unpleasant to do on many laptops because you have a bazillion screws to undo and little ribbon cables that tear easily) | 14:37 |
| popey | So that's why I often advocate option 2.. | 14:37 |
| popey | 2. Boot from an Ubuntu Live CD / USB stick. | 14:37 |
| popey | (hence me saying you should always carry one) :D | 14:37 |
| popey | 14:37 | |
| popey | Now, booting from a Live CD/USB stick is great, and can let you inspect the contents of the hard disk of the broken machine | 14:38 |
| popey | But you often need to do more than look. | 14:38 |
| popey | 14:38 | |
| popey | In the same way that a Doctor might start by giving a patient a non-invasive X-Ray or MRI scan | 14:38 |
| popey | Sometimes you need to slice people open in order to figure out what's wrong | 14:39 |
| popey | Note: I do not advocate slicing people open randomly :) | 14:39 |
| popey | 14:39 | |
| popey | So the diagnostic tool I'm going to talk about is using a Live CD/USB with a program called "chroot" | 14:39 |
| popey | The main use for chroot here is to attach to / login to, an existing install of Ubuntu and then look, and optionally make changes where needed. | 14:40 |
| popey | 14:40 | |
| popey | This is a slightly complex process which involves a lot of commands on the command line:- | 14:40 |
| popey | Here's what I do:- | 14:40 |
| popey | 1. Boot from a Live CD/USB | 14:41 |
| popey | 2. Use "sudo fdisk -l" to identify which device my local hard disk is | 14:41 |
| popey | http://paste.ubuntu.com/559909/ <- that is the result of me running that command on my PC | 14:42 |
| popey | As you can see I have 3 disks on this computer. | 14:42 |
| popey | /dev/sda is a 500GB disk | 14:42 |
| popey | /dev/sdb is a 250GB disk | 14:42 |
| popey | /dev/sdg is a 32GB USB stick | 14:42 |
| popey | Now looking closer at /dev/sda we can see multiple partitions:- | 14:43 |
| popey | /dev/sda1 * 1 24832 199463008+ 7 HPFS/NTFS | 14:43 |
| popey | ^^ that one contains Windows XP | 14:43 |
| popey | So I am not interested in that for this session :) | 14:43 |
| popey | /dev/sda2 32251 60802 229338113 5 Extended | 14:43 |
| popey | ^^ this is an extended partition, it contains the next three partitions. | 14:43 |
| popey | (note: there is a limit of 4 primary partitions on disks, so we tend to have lots of extra partitions under an Extended one, so we can have more than 4) | 14:44 |
| popey | /dev/sda5 32251 59639 220001280 83 Linux | 14:44 |
| popey | thats a biggie! | 14:45 |
| popey | That's my root partition, which contains everything on my pc. | 14:45 |
| popey | Some people separate / and /home as separate partitions, I haven't on this PC. | 14:45 |
| popey | /dev/sda6 59640 60802 9335808 82 Linux swap / Solaris | 14:45 |
| popey | that's my swap space. | 14:45 |
| popey | Ok, so assuming that /dev/sda5 is my root partition and it's in some way broken. | 14:46 |
| popey | Here's what we move on to in step 3. | 14:46 |
| popey | 3. Open a terminal | 14:46 |
| popey | Now this may be scary for some, but it's really the best way to diagnose these issues | 14:46 |
| popey | 4. Issue the following commands:- | 14:46 |
| popey | (assuming /dev/sda5 is indeed the broken root partition) | 14:46 |
| popey | Now, remember at this point we're booted into a Live USB/CD environment. | 14:47 |
| popey | We need to make some directories under which we will "mount" the broken installation. | 14:47 |
| popey | mkdir ~/target | 14:47 |
| popey | mkdir ~/target/dev | 14:47 |
| popey | mkdir ~/target/sys | 14:47 |
| popey | mkdir ~/target/proc | 14:47 |
| popey | ~ means "my home directory", so all of those will be in the home directory of the Live environment user | 14:47 |
| popey | (the above are going to be used to 'mount up' the broken install into) | 14:47 |
| popey | Now we mount up:- | 14:47 |
| popey | sudo mount /dev/sda5 ~/target | 14:48 |
| popey | (the above mounts up the hard disk into onto the target directory, you can see your files in there) | 14:48 |
| popey | So you could open nautilus on the Live CD/USB and navigate to the home directory, and under 'target/' you'll see your files (hopefully) | 14:48 |
| popey | (the next three lines mount up some special folders that may be needed by the diagnostic tools) | 14:48 |
| popey | sudo mount -o bind /dev ~/target/dev | 14:48 |
| popey | sudo mount -o bind /proc ~/target/proc | 14:48 |
| popey | sudo mount -o bind /sys ~/target/sys | 14:48 |
| popey | (At this point we have the local install mounted up in a folder) | 14:49 |
| popey | Now we "chroot" into it.. | 14:49 |
| popey | 5. 'chroot' into the install with the following command:- | 14:49 |
| popey | chroot ~/target | 14:49 |
| popey | actually, sorry. | 14:50 |
| popey | sudo chroot ~/target | 14:50 |
| popey | (at this point we'll get a root prompt inside the 'broken' system and can start poking around looking for problems). | 14:50 |
| popey | 14:50 | |
| popey | This is the single most useful diagnostics system (in my opinion) for troubleshooting a broken system. | 14:50 |
| popey | Now we're running low on time, so I'll go through an example of a specific issue that can be fixed once we have the sytem in this state. | 14:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 14:51 |
| popey | 14:51 | |
| popey | === Fixing broken GRUB === | 14:51 |
| popey | If GRUB has become broken we can at this point check the configuration of GRUB by looking in ~/target/boot/grub/grub.cfg | 14:52 |
| popey | Here is my grub.cfg http://paste.ubuntu.com/559911/ | 14:52 |
| popey | Note at the top:- "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE" | 14:52 |
| popey | However it is 'interesting' to look at | 14:53 |
| === MichealH is now known as MH0 | ||
| popey | So fixing all grub issues is beyond the time we have here, but, now we have the system mounted up and chrooted we can perform additional steps which can help the diagnosis or indeed resolve the issue) | 14:54 |
| popey | so for example at this point I would head over to the following pages:- | 14:54 |
| popey | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto | 14:54 |
| popey | (or if windows had rubbed out my grub install) :- | 14:54 |
| popey | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows | 14:54 |
| popey | 14:55 | |
| popey | The massive stumbling block many people have is a chicken-and-egg problem that goes like this:- | 14:55 |
| popey | 1. My system wont boot, grub is broken | 14:55 |
| popey | 2. To fix grub, boot your system and run these commands.. | 14:56 |
| popey | 3. Goto 1. | 14:56 |
| popey | 14:56 | |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 14:56 |
| popey | By using the chroot method above, we can circumvent the "my system wont boot" and get logged into the system, bypassing the broken grub / kernel / video issue that's preventing bootup in the first place | 14:56 |
| popey | 14:56 | |
| popey | I'll very quickly mention another issue that this can help fix.. | 14:57 |
| popey | 14:57 | |
| popey | === Fixing a half-finished upgrade/update === | 14:57 |
| popey | If the system powered down or crashed during system update, sometimes this can render the system unusable until the updates are 'finished'. Some commands which can help here:- | 14:57 |
| popey | (assuming you're already chrooted in) | 14:57 |
| popey | dpkg --configure -a | 14:57 |
| popey | (will continue processing outstanding updates) | 14:57 |
| popey | and.. | 14:57 |
| popey | apt-get dist-upgrade | 14:57 |
| popey | (which will be useful if some updates need to be installed) | 14:58 |
| popey | Note: Both of those commands, I did not use sudo. | 14:58 |
| popey | The reason for that is because when you "chroot" you "become root" on the system. this is of course dangerous, so be careful. | 14:58 |
| popey | 14:58 | |
| popey | Hmm, I'm getting to the end of my slot, and we don't really have any time left for questions, sorry about that. | 14:59 |
| popey | I'm hoping to make a video about this which I'll put up online at http://ucasts.tv/ | 14:59 |
| popey | feel free to ping me on irc if you have questions later :) | 14:59 |
| popey | Apparently the next session is blank for some reason. Free period! | 15:00 |
| popey | thanks to everyone for watching me wibble on, and thanks to the classroom team! | 15:01 |
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html | 15:01 |
| popey | thanks ClassBot ! | 15:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || | ||
| robertf | . | 15:02 |
| LeGambitteur | hi there | 15:45 |
| doctormo | hi LeGambitteur | 15:45 |
| sebsebseb | LeGambitteur: doctormo hi | 15:46 |
| LeGambitteur | so you'll be the next presenter doctormo | 15:49 |
| sebsebseb | LeGambitteur: no Cheri703 will be | 15:49 |
| LeGambitteur | ah yes gmt time, sorry :p | 15:50 |
| Cheri703 | Hi Everyone | 16:00 |
| sebsebseb | Cheri703: Hi | 16:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Tips and tricks for multi-booters - Instructors: Cheri703 | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 16:01 |
| Cheri703 | Welcome to "Tips and Tricks for Multi-Booters" | 16:01 |
| Cheri703 | I’m Cheri703, I have been using Ubuntu for a few years now. I started with a dual-boot machine, once I was more confident, I went to Ubuntu only, and recently set up a secondary computer as a Windows/Ubuntu machine. I help with the Ubuntu Beginners Team, am a ReLoCo lead for in the Ohio LoCo, and hang out in the Ubuntu Women irc room. | 16:02 |
| Cheri703 | As an outline, first I'm going to give references/resources for setting up a dual-boot, second I will discuss a partitioning method that works WONDERS for simplifying the day to day use of a multi-boot machine, third, I will explain how to set up a 1 button OS Swap (reboot into the alternate OS). | 16:03 |
| Cheri703 | If you have questions, follow the ClassBot format: QUESTION: <question> | 16:04 |
| Cheri703 | Where <question> is your actual question. If you do not begin the line with QUESTION:, ClassBot will not recognize it, and your question will most likely not get answered. Though I'll be keeping an eye on #ubuntu-classroom-chat | 16:04 |
| Cheri703 | And away we go! | 16:04 |
| Cheri703 | Setting up a dual-boot | 16:04 |
| Cheri703 | I’m not going to go into detail on the actual steps of setting this up, but you can check out these links to get more information. | 16:04 |
| Cheri703 | (though if there are questions, and I run too quickly, I can answer them) | 16:05 |
| Cheri703 | Windows: https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBootHowTo | 16:05 |
| Cheri703 | Mac: https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot | 16:05 |
| Cheri703 | If you run into problems or have questions, consult the forums ( http://www.Ubuntuforums.org ) or come visit the Ubuntu Beginners IRC room #Ubuntu-beginners | 16:05 |
| Cheri703 | When setting your initial partitions, you CAN just install Windows on your whole Hard Drive (HDD) because the Ubuntu installer can adjust partitions, BUT it makes it easier if you have a general idea of your desired partition sizes right off the bat, and create them accordingly. This avoids the possibility of losing/corrupting data during the partition adjustments. | 16:06 |
| Cheri703 | If you decide to alter an existing installation, make sure you backup ALL important information and files. External HDD, Ubuntu One, or other online backup options are good considerations. | 16:07 |
| Cheri703 | This brings us to our next topic: | 16:07 |
| Cheri703 | Cheri703's Patented Partitioning Program!! | 16:07 |
| Cheri703 | Not really. This is just a way of partitioning that I've found gives me the most flexibility and access to my data, across multiple OSs on one computer or many. | 16:08 |
| Cheri703 | The basic version: One partition (or HDD) per operating system, and one partition JUST for storage (music, files, etc). | 16:08 |
| Cheri703 | Using Symlinks in Ubuntu, all of your usual Documents/Pictures/Downloads/Etc folders (located in your home folder) will actually be saving on your Storage drive, thus enabling access from the alternate Operating System. | 16:09 |
| Cheri703 | In Windows, you'll just have to name the other partition D: or what have you, and point to the appropriately named folders/files. | 16:09 |
| Cheri703 | (Further reading about symlinks: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Symlink ) | 16:09 |
| Cheri703 | This way, I can access all files without worrying about duplicates, file paths, or which OS can read which file systems. | 16:10 |
| Cheri703 | If you are using Windows/Ubuntu, be sure you make your Storage drive NTFS so you can access it from Windows! (Further reading on file systems: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File_systems ) | 16:10 |
| Cheri703 | Symlinks are not like shortcuts in Windows | 16:11 |
| Cheri703 | They are a "hard link" | 16:11 |
| Cheri703 | more useful in that if you navigate to /home/user/Documents, even within the open dialog from a program, you'll be accessing the contents of /media/Storage/Documents (or however you've named it) | 16:12 |
| Cheri703 | Once you've partitioned, the next step is to set the storage partition to automount at boot. | 16:13 |
| Cheri703 | If you've created an NTFS partition for use with Windows, follow the directions in the first post of this thread from UbuntuForums: http://Ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=785263 (this worked for me!) | 16:13 |
| Cheri703 | If you are dual-booting multiple linux variants, and your Storage drive is ext3 (or extsomethingelse) use the directions here: https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticallyMountPartitions | 16:13 |
| Cheri703 | Now we're ready for the joys of Symlinking! | 16:14 |
| Cheri703 | Setting Up Symlinks: | 16:14 |
| Cheri703 | This is a multi-step process, but not especially difficult. | 16:14 |
| Cheri703 | 1. Boot into Ubuntu | 16:14 |
| Cheri703 | 2. Open Home Folder | 16:15 |
| Cheri703 | 3. Choose folder (Documents, Pictures, Downloads, Whichever) | 16:15 |
| Cheri703 | 4. Cut/paste (Move) folder to Storage Drive | 16:15 |
| Cheri703 | 5. Right click the folder, choose "Make Link" | 16:15 |
| Cheri703 | This creates a "Link to Documents" icon | 16:15 |
| Cheri703 | 6. Cut/paste (Move) icon to Home folder | 16:16 |
| Cheri703 | *Move "Link to Documents" icon to home folder | 16:16 |
| Cheri703 | 7. Rename as Documents | 16:16 |
| Cheri703 | Congratulations! You now have a Symlink! Repeat this process for any other folders you'd like to access from your alternate OS. Naming the Symlinks to match the original folder names will allow the “Places” bookmarks to work, adding to the convenience factor. | 16:16 |
| Cheri703 | Now, I can already assume that a few of you will be asking, "Why not just mount /home on a different partition?" | 16:17 |
| Cheri703 | That CAN be useful. I found that I had more issues with it. Also, when using multiple linux variants, and even different flavors of Ubuntu, you don't necessarily want to mix your .app folders in /home. | 16:17 |
| Cheri703 | If you have a Kubuntu .mozilla folder and an Ubuntu .mozilla folder, they might have vastly different settings. This can lead to conflicts and issues. Having only benign data lumped together makes it much easier to avoid screwing things up! I mess up random obscure things easily enough, I don't need to make it more likely to happen! | 16:18 |
| Cheri703 | One other benefit that I use HEAVILY is the fact that if you need to reinstall your OS (any of them) you can simply copy relevant system/configuration files (and in Ubuntu your entire home folder to save your program settings) to the Storage drive, Reinstall on the OS drive, and copy back over as needed. | 16:19 |
| Cheri703 | Using this method, I have gone from blank OS drive to fully functioning (and reconfigured) Ubuntu install in under 45 minutes (and my computers are fairly slow). This includes updates and program installation, and everything. THAT IS WAAAAAAY faster than I have EVER installed Windows. | 16:20 |
| Cheri703 | Finally we come to the OS change method. | 16:20 |
| Cheri703 | A bit of backstory: when I decided to set up a hand-me-down computer as a dual-boot (Thanks Dad!), I idly wondered if it was possible to have it set up as a headless secondary server. For those unfamiliar with the term, headless implies "without monitor/keyboard/mouse." | 16:21 |
| Cheri703 | The main difficulty I had when previously setting up dual-boot machines was catching the GRUB menu in time to choose my OS. When trying to use the computer via SSH or VNC, there would be no access to GRUB. After much googling, I found a magical command built into GRUB: grub-reboot. | 16:22 |
| Cheri703 | (Further information about SSH: https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/SSH Further information about VNC: https://help.Ubuntu.com/community/VNC I use tightVNC in Windows) | 16:22 |
| Cheri703 | grub-reboot X is the format used, where X is the POSITION in the GRUB menu of the OS you want to choose. | 16:23 |
| Cheri703 | Just to check, does anyone have any questions about what I've covered so far? | 16:23 |
| Cheri703 | One important thing to remember is that the numbering starts with 0 (this threw me off when I was initially attempting this). For my system, I need grub-reboot 6. This command ONLY boots into the selected OS once, then goes back to the default selection. | 16:25 |
| gpc | mhall119> QUESTION: How difficult is it to mix security/access control when using NTFS as your Storage partition? | 16:27 |
| Cheri703 | I have not run into any issues in my own use of it, depending on your specific use case, it may vary. | 16:28 |
| Cheri703 | The reason I use NTFS on my secondary drive in my server is for backup purposes | 16:28 |
| Cheri703 | If my computer dies (It is old and has fits), I can pull that HDD and plug it into any other computer and access my data. | 16:29 |
| gpc | <decumanus> QUESTION: My windows grub entry is _last_ - kernel number above it tends to increase - is it possible to use grub-reboot last entry? | 16:29 |
| Cheri703 | Other than keeping track of the number I'm not sure. Perhaps clearing old kernel versions from your list on a regular basis? Once I'm done, I will check to see if there is any info about that available. | 16:31 |
| Cheri703 | Any further questions? If not, I'll continue | 16:31 |
| Cheri703 | To set the default selection, open the terminal, type "sudo gedit /boot/grub/grub.conf" | 16:32 |
| Cheri703 | Change the default line to "default=0" if you want Ubuntu (first selection) to be your default. | 16:32 |
| Cheri703 | You may also use startupmanager It is a GUI for changing your GRUB settings (I have used it several times) | 16:33 |
| Cheri703 | To use the grub-reboot method, there are a few options: you can open terminal and type "sudo grub-reboot 6" or you can make a script and add a launcher to your panel (this is nice if you reboot often). My script is as follows: | 16:34 |
| Cheri703 | #!/bin/bash | 16:35 |
| Cheri703 | gksu grub-reboot X | 16:35 |
| Cheri703 | gksu reboot | 16:35 |
| Cheri703 | Also available here: http://paste.Ubuntu.com/559801/ | 16:35 |
| Cheri703 | X is replaced by the number | 16:35 |
| gpc | <russjr08> QUESTION: Doesn't grub-reboot automatically reboot? or do you have to have the reboot command? | 16:36 |
| Cheri703 | No, because it is just setting the condition | 16:36 |
| Cheri703 | you are telling it "Grub, next time you reboot, use selection 6" | 16:37 |
| gpc | <wolfpack> QUESTION: Does grub-reboot is same as system-reboot ? | 16:38 |
| Cheri703 | No, it is a command within GRUB. | 16:39 |
| Cheri703 | you will still need to reboot separately from running grub-reboot | 16:39 |
| Cheri703 | Any further questions? | 16:39 |
| Cheri703 | Oh, you must run grub-reboot as sudo | 16:40 |
| Cheri703 | (forgot to note that :) ) | 16:40 |
| Cheri703 | This script/launcher is very handy when sitting at the computer, or when connecting via SSH or VNC. This is what enables headless use. I've found it incredibly useful to have VNC set up in both Ubuntu and Windows, so I can access it with the same IP address, no matter which OS is loaded. | 16:40 |
| === Flavio is now known as Guest34592 | ||
| Cheri703 | As previously stated, grub-reboot only changes OS once, so simply rebooting from Windows brings you right back to Ubuntu. | 16:41 |
| Cheri703 | (or any other alternate OS) | 16:41 |
| gpc | <bircow_> I have one question about NTFS (if I can). NTFS has ACL permissions - multiple users/groups can have particual access. How to achive the same with extN if there's only owner, group, other? | 16:43 |
| Cheri703 | You should be able to add the users to a new group, and (I may be wrong) perhaps give group one access also to group two (if you are wanting group one to access a folder that others can access as well) | 16:44 |
| Cheri703 | Any further questions? | 16:44 |
| Cheri703 | Well, there you have it, Cheri703's Patented Partitioning Program and The Amazing Headless Dual-Boot! | 16:45 |
| Cheri703 | bircow_: I was provided with this link as well: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FilePermissions#ACLs | 16:46 |
| Cheri703 | That may help you | 16:46 |
| gpc | <wolfpack> QUESTION : Can we remove some of the kernel entries from grub? | 16:46 |
| Cheri703 | wolfpack: if you uninstall the kernel entries using synaptic OR sudo apt-get autoremove I believe grub should update at your next reboot, if you want it to happen sooner, you can run update-grub | 16:48 |
| Cheri703 | We have about 10 minutes before the next session, so questions are welcome :) | 16:49 |
| Cheri703 | If none, take an intermission :) | 16:49 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 16:51 |
| doctormo | This next session will be for Inkscape graphics, and because it's a visual topic. | 16:54 |
| doctormo | We're going to stream a video live, with sound. | 16:54 |
| Cheri703 | I am told that the 10.10 version of startupmanager has a selection for number of entries on your grub menu (sorry to interrupt doctormo) | 16:54 |
| doctormo | please go to this link http://www.livestream.com/technicallyaclassroom?t=809264 to listen in and see what I'm teaching | 16:54 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 16:56 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Inkscape Introduction - Instructors: doctormo | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 17:01 |
| nigelb | Folks, doctormo is doing a live session at http://www.livestream.com/technicallyaclassroom?t=809264 | 17:27 |
| gpc | doctormo> http://openclipart.org | 17:47 |
| gpc | <doctormo> http://www.wikimedia.org/ | 17:47 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 17:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 17:56 |
| doctormo | Thanks everyone for watching the live cast, suggestions and research into better video solutions are most welcome. | 17:58 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Command Line Email Clients for Ubuntu - Instructors: _marx_ | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 18:01 |
| Pendulum | Okay, it looks like _marx_ hasn't made it back from a work thing he got called out to so I'm going to do the session on Accessibility now and he'll do his session at 20:00 UTC when mine was originally scheduled | 18:06 |
| Pendulum | unfortunately, I don't have access to the bot so please bare with me when it comes to questions as I have to try to catch them all myself | 18:06 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Accessibility apps - Instructors: Pendulum | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 18:08 |
| Pendulum | Just a quick intro, I'm Penelope Stowe and I'm the co-leader of the Ubuntu Accessibility team. My co-leader is Luke Yelavich (or TheMuso on IRC) | 18:09 |
| Pendulum | I focus on the outreach and documentation side of the team, while he runs the development side. | 18:09 |
| Pendulum | This session isn't a how-to guide and won't go into a huge amount of detail into any one program. | 18:09 |
| Pendulum | Instead, it should give you an overview of what's availible for accessibility tools in Ubuntu. | 18:10 |
| Pendulum | I'll also give you some resources for where you can get help and find more information. | 18:10 |
| Pendulum | This session will focus on GNOME-based accessibility features. GNOME has used at-spi as it's accessibility toolkit. Right now it is switching to Dbus/at-spi2. | 18:10 |
| Pendulum | I am also focusing on programs that can be found in the Ubuntu Software Center in Maverick. | 18:10 |
| Pendulum | This means there are programs that may have worked in older versions of Ubuntu, which aren't currently there or that are in PPAs and will possibly be in the software center in the future. | 18:10 |
| Pendulum | I'll also talk a little bit about a couple derivatives of Ubuntu which focus on accessibility features. | 18:11 |
| Pendulum | I do want to note that this information is for Maverick (Ubuntu 10.10) and earlier. Due to the switch to Unity, the accessibility framework starting with 11.04 is changing, but I have no idea what may or may not change yet in how accessibility programs and features are accessed. | 18:11 |
| Pendulum | Before I talk about specific programs, I want to talk about the Assistive Technologies menu, which can be found in System->Preferences -> Assistive Technology. | 18:11 |
| Pendulum | This menu is where you can select your preferred accessibility programs and enable assistive technologies. | 18:12 |
| Pendulum | You can use this menu to specify things such as how long to accept as a keypress, how to prevent accidental double clicking, and how quickly to respond to key presses. | 18:12 |
| Pendulum | It's also useful for turning off and on sticky keys or specifying keystrokes to stand in for things you'd normally do with a mouse. | 18:12 |
| Pendulum | This is also the menu you use to specify which programs you want for an alternate keyboard or as a screen reader. | 18:12 |
| Pendulum | I also want to mention the accessible install process. | 18:14 |
| Pendulum | When you install Ubuntu can an accessible install, this allows for you to choose between several different 'accessibility profiles' (such as blind or motor impaired) so you can have the tools to install without needing to be non-disabled. | 18:14 |
| Pendulum | Unfortunately, this process doesn't always work. | 18:14 |
| Pendulum | In Lucid, the accessible installer was reached through a specific set of keystrokes | 18:15 |
| Pendulum | in Maverick it didn't work at all initially. It is hopefully already fixed for Natty | 18:15 |
| Pendulum | If you need an accessible install and want to run Maverick, I would suggest installing Lucid and upgrading. | 18:15 |
| Pendulum | You can find instructions on doing an accessible install at: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/08/13/going-headless/ (along with some humour) | 18:15 |
| Pendulum | Does anyone have any questions about the Assisstive Technologies Menu or the accessible install? | 18:16 |
| === ajain is now known as aju | ||
| Pendulum | The first set of programs I'm going to talk about are the text-to-speech programs. | 18:18 |
| ClassBot | Texou asked: so today to install accessible Ubuntu, is there a manual? | 18:18 |
| Pendulum | the post I linked to for http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/08/13/going-headless/ has a pretty good description of the install process and how to do it on Lucid | 18:18 |
| Pendulum | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility/doc/StartGuide also has information | 18:19 |
| Pendulum | Any other questions? | 18:20 |
| Pendulum | Moving on | 18:21 |
| Pendulum | The most popular text-to-speech program is Orca, although it isn't just a screen reader, but has other capabilities as well | 18:21 |
| Pendulum | Orca includes a screen reader, magnification capabilities, and braille capabilities, so it is more than text-to-speech, however most people when you say Orca think of it as a screen reader. | 18:22 |
| Pendulum | Orca was developed by the Accessibility department at Sun Microsystems, however, with the acquisition of Sun by Oracle, it has moved to community-development only. | 18:22 |
| Pendulum | Orca can work with programs that include the at-spi toolkit including the GNOME desktop, Firefox, OpenOffice, and many others. | 18:23 |
| ClassBot | habeouscorpus asked: Does Orca do speech to text? | 18:23 |
| Pendulum | No it does not. As far as I know Orca has no plans to do speech to text (I'll cover the limited options for speech to text later) | 18:23 |
| Pendulum | More information about Orca can be found at http://live.gnome.org/Orca | 18:24 |
| Pendulum | And, yes, it is named after the animal in the tradition of screen readers being named after aquatic animals. (The most well known is JAWS for Windows) | 18:24 |
| Pendulum | Are there any other questions about Orca? | 18:24 |
| Pendulum | Another text-to-speech program is eSpeak. eSpeak is command line based. | 18:25 |
| Pendulum | It supports quite a few different languages | 18:25 |
| Pendulum | There are several different versions of eSpeak including one specific to emacs. | 18:25 |
| Pendulum | More information can be found at http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ | 18:26 |
| Pendulum | These are the two main text-to-speech/screen reader options in the Software Center | 18:26 |
| Pendulum | Are there any questions about espeak or other questions about text-to-speech in Ubuntu? | 18:26 |
| Pendulum | Moving on from text-to-speech, I'm going to very quickly cover magnification software | 18:27 |
| Pendulum | The two bits of magnification software commonly found in Ubuntu are gnome-mag and the magnification part of Orca | 18:27 |
| Pendulum | And that's about all I have there :P | 18:28 |
| Pendulum | Next I want to talk about alternate keyboards. | 18:29 |
| Pendulum | oh, before I move on AlanBell has mentioned in -classroom-chat that Compiz zoom is also pretty good for screen magnification | 18:30 |
| Pendulum | anyway, alternate keyboards are programs which can be used to replace or augment a traditional keyboard. They usually directly interface with the mouse however the mouse may be controlled. | 18:30 |
| Pendulum | The built-in alternate keyboard for Ubuntu is onBoard. | 18:30 |
| Pendulum | It was developed as a Google Summer of Code project several years ago and is a basic on screen keyboard. | 18:31 |
| Pendulum | It includes everything except the function keys from a regular keyboard | 18:31 |
| Pendulum | You click on the key or a sequence of keys and it inputs directly into whatever program you're working on | 18:32 |
| Pendulum | Not only useful as assistive technology, it's rather useful for people using Ubuntu on a tablet | 18:32 |
| Pendulum | (in fact, I find onBoard tedious to use with a mouse, but would probably be fine with it as a tablet) | 18:32 |
| Pendulum | The other well known option for alternate keyboard capabilities is Dasher | 18:33 |
| Pendulum | Which, for those of you who know me, I promise not to wax poetically about for the next 20 minutes ;-) | 18:33 |
| Pendulum | Dasher, rather than having a keyboard set-up, is mouse controlled by hovering the mouse over the letters on the screen | 18:33 |
| Pendulum | It also has predicitve text capabilities, which can be quite useful | 18:33 |
| Pendulum | If you run Dasher from the Applications menu in Ubuntu, it prints the characters in its own text editor and you can copy and paste into other programs | 18:34 |
| Pendulum | From the command line you can run " dasher -a direct " which allows direct input into other programs | 18:34 |
| Pendulum | that said, direct input can be buggy and with GNOME's move to Dbus/at-spi2 this functionality will become slightly more complex. I'm not quite sure how it will work with Unity (or if it will work with Unity) yet | 18:35 |
| Pendulum | There are also Windows and MacOS X versions of Dasher. | 18:35 |
| Pendulum | For more information (including video and a way to try without downloading) you can go to http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ | 18:35 |
| Pendulum | Are there any questions about alternate keyboards? | 18:35 |
| Pendulum | Moving on... | 18:37 |
| Pendulum | There are two programs in Ubuntu that help with alternate mouse controls | 18:37 |
| Pendulum | MouseTrap allows headtracking using a webcam to control your mouse | 18:37 |
| Pendulum | MouseTweaks works with the Assistive Technologies menu to give the ability to allow the mouse to "click" even if the mouse user can't actually make the motion that allows a mouse to click normally | 18:37 |
| Pendulum | These should then work with whatever programs the user uses within the computer to control it (such as Dasher) | 18:38 |
| Pendulum | And now the topic that everyone asks about (and is one of the things that got me involved with the accessibility team): Voice Recognition software | 18:39 |
| Pendulum | The short answer is that there are hacks and there are programs that sort of work, but there aren't great results for voice recognition in Ubuntu | 18:39 |
| Pendulum | The only voice recognition software in the Software Center is Julius (and it's not listed in the assistive technology section so you have to search for it and know it's there) | 18:39 |
| Pendulum | (yes, I know I still need to file a bug about that ;) ) | 18:40 |
| Pendulum | Julius was originally developed in Japanese and is being ported to English | 18:40 |
| Pendulum | Unfortunately, as it's not finished software, the documentation is lacking | 18:40 |
| Pendulum | I've spent some time trying to figure out how to make it work in the past with no success, although I know others who've had slightly more success | 18:40 |
| Pendulum | The other thing which has worked for some Ubuntu users is to run Dragon Natural Speaking under Wine | 18:40 |
| Pendulum | I have been hearing good things about Simon-Listens which can be found in a PPA, however, it is really only meant to be voice control for the computer, not speech-to-text. | 18:41 |
| Pendulum | Are there any questions about voice recognition? | 18:41 |
| Pendulum | < hajour> is there not something from julius from microsoft ? | 18:42 |
| Pendulum | I honestly don't know. I know that a lot of the open source work on voice recognition has in some way involved proprietary voice engines and libraries, but I don't know about Julius specifically | 18:43 |
| Pendulum | Are there any other questions about voice recognition? | 18:44 |
| Pendulum | Okay, those are the major groups of accessibility programs and what's availible in Ubuntu | 18:45 |
| Pendulum | Now I'm going to talk about some of the accessibility-specific Ubuntu derivatives (or are related to accessibility) | 18:45 |
| Pendulum | the biggest of these at the moment is Vinux, which is aimed and blind and visually impaired users. | 18:46 |
| Pendulum | You can get more information at http://vinux.org.uk/ | 18:46 |
| Pendulum | Another one that's been discussed in the GNOME community quite a bit Guadalinux- a11y edition | 18:47 |
| Pendulum | This is a Spanish-language derivative and the a11y edition was supposed to have its first release in November 2010, however, I can't find any information on whether it actually released or not (and I can't read Spanish to really look at the Guadalinux site to find it) | 18:47 |
| Pendulum | Finally, we have Qimo4kids, which mhall119 developed partially as a way to create something that would be easy for kids with developmental disabilities to use | 18:47 |
| Pendulum | Before I give the list of ways to get help with accessibility, I'd like to talk a little bit about how the future of accessibility development for Ubuntu is looking | 18:48 |
| Pendulum | Right now Luke and several other people at Canonical are working to get the accessibility framework for Unity written and in | 18:49 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 18:51 |
| Pendulum | There are also new projects being worked on such as SpeechControl, a community developed project that aims to provide a screen reader, and hopefully also voice control for Ubuntu | 18:51 |
| Pendulum | Are there any questions about the derivatives or the future of accessibility? | 18:52 |
| Pendulum | Okay, I'm going to end with where you can go to get help on accessibility related issues in Ubuntu | 18:53 |
| Pendulum | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility has the official documentation | 18:54 |
| Pendulum | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility is the wiki pages, these are slowly being updated | 18:54 |
| Pendulum | The Accessibility section of Ubuntu Forums | 18:54 |
| Pendulum | #ubuntu-accessibility here on freenode | 18:54 |
| Pendulum | ubuntu-accessiblity@lists.ubuntu.com (to subscribe go to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-accessibility ) | 18:55 |
| Pendulum | the ubuntu accessibility team is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Team and now http://ubuntuaccessibility.wordpress.com/ | 18:55 |
| Pendulum | The Gnome A11y team is also often useful: gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org & http://projects.gnome.org/accessibility/ | 18:55 |
| Pendulum | Does anyone have any final questions? | 18:55 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 18:56 |
| ClassBot | habeouscorpus asked: Are there any known bugs or incompatibilities with Orca? | 18:56 |
| Pendulum | the biggest known bug recently has been the installer bug | 18:58 |
| Pendulum | I have talked to people who have, however, found it fixed in the early teasting of Natty so hopefully it is fixed | 18:58 |
| Pendulum | otherwise you can find the bugs by search for Orca on Launchpad | 18:58 |
| Pendulum | Looks like we're out of time. If you have any other questions feel free to ask in #ubuntu-accessibility or on the mailing list | 18:59 |
| Pendulum | Thanks everyone for coming to my session! | 18:59 |
| pleia2 | Thanks Pendulum! | 19:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Using IRC - Instructors: nhandler | ||
| nhandler | Hello everyone. My name is Nathan Handler. I am a member of the Ubuntu IRC Council and freenode staff, and I am here to talk about using IRC. | 19:01 |
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 19:01 |
| nhandler | If you have any questions during the session, please ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat (prefix them with 'QUESTION:') and I will answer them as soon as possible. | 19:02 |
| nhandler | IRC stands for Internet Relay Chat. It is a convenient way for many people to chat in real-time online. It is also how everyone here today is participating in the Ubuntu User Day event. | 19:02 |
| nhandler | In the Ubuntu community, IRC serves several key purposes. | 19:02 |
| nhandler | First, it is one of the main methods for users to receive support. | 19:03 |
| nhandler | If you have questions about using Ubuntu, one of the hundreds of people in #ubuntu will probably be able to help you (or point you in the right direction). | 19:04 |
| nhandler | Many teams in the Ubuntu community also have their own IRC channels. These channels make it easy for members of the team to collaborate and organize their activities. | 19:04 |
| nhandler | A list of Ubuntu IRC channels and their purposes is available on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList/ . You can join an IRC channel by entering: /join #channel in your client. | 19:05 |
| nhandler | Currently, the closest thing to an IRC client that Ubuntu ships with is empathy. Empathy has many issues with IRC, so I would recommend using the freenode webchat (http://webchat.freenode.net/) if you are hesitant to install a new IRC client (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat#IRC%20Clients). | 19:05 |
| nhandler | One of the first things you should do if you are planning on regularly using IRC is register your nick. Registering your nick ensures that nobody else can steal it, and allows other people to verify that you are really who you say you are (rather than someone impersonating you). | 19:06 |
| nhandler | freenode recommends that you setup your nick in this fashion: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | 19:07 |
| nhandler | When you join an IRC channel, be sure to closely read the channel's topic by using the /topic command. This is where you will be able to learn about what the channel is used for and what rules you need to follow. | 19:07 |
| nhandler | For example, in most Ubuntu channels, you are expected to observe the Code of Conduct (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct) and the IRC Guidelines (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines) | 19:08 |
| nhandler | Failure to abide by the rules in a channel can result in you getting banned from being there. | 19:08 |
| nhandler | Channels are managed by people called operators. You can view a list of operators for a particular channel by entering: /msg ChanServ ACCESS #channel LIST | 19:09 |
| nhandler | People with the +o flag are operators. Information about what the other flags mean is available by entering: /msg ChanServ HELP FLAGS | 19:10 |
| nhandler | Are there any questions so far? | 19:11 |
| ClassBot | mhall119 asked: Who gets to have +o on Ubuntu channels? | 19:11 |
| nhandler | That is a good question | 19:11 |
| nhandler | There are different types of Ubuntu IRC Channels | 19:11 |
| nhandler | There are channels that we refer to as "Core Channels" (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/Scope). These channels are managed by the IRC Team | 19:12 |
| nhandler | For the core channels, the IRC Council will occassionally put out a call for more operators when they feel it is needed | 19:14 |
| nhandler | I'm trying to find a link to the wiki page explaining that process | 19:15 |
| nhandler | For non core channels (i.e. team channels), they will have their own process. Some channels, such as #ubuntu-classroom, grant OP access to all Ubuntu Members. | 19:15 |
| nhandler | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorRequirements explains the process for the core channels | 19:16 |
| ClassBot | akshatj asked: What is half-ops? | 19:16 |
| nhandler | freenode does not support half-ops. Instead, it uses flags (/msg ChanServ HELP FLAGS) to allow you to control what level of access certain people have in a channel. | 19:16 |
| nhandler | Any more questions? | 19:17 |
| nhandler | One topic I would like to mention is channel creation | 19:18 |
| nhandler | Lots of good information about setting up a channel on freenode can be found here: http://blog.freenode.net/?p=78 | 19:18 |
| === abhishek_ is now known as abhijain | ||
| nhandler | If you want to create a channel in the Ubuntu namespace (i.e. #ubuntu-*), you should notify the IRC Council. This is mainly to make sure we are aware of what channels are in the namespace and to prevent abuse. | 19:19 |
| nhandler | For channels created outside of the Ubuntu namespace, you will most likely want to prefix the name with 2 #s to comply with freenode channel naming policy ( http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming ). Only groups with a group registration form on file ( http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml ) should have single # channels | 19:20 |
| nhandler | Another source of frequent confusion on IRC has to do with channel and user modes. | 19:21 |
| nhandler | I don't want to go into much detail about modes during this session, but I do want to note that lots of useful explanations are available at: http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml | 19:21 |
| nhandler | Another useful document is the freenode faq (http://freenode.net/faq.shtml). This page tries to answer many of the common questions that users tend to have. | 19:22 |
| nhandler | Any questions? | 19:23 |
| nhandler | I'd also like to briefly mention some of the bots that we utilize in Ubuntu. | 19:25 |
| nhandler | In the Ubuntu channels, you will often find ubottu or one of the ubot clones. These bots (among other things) serve as factoid bots. They make it easy to send users information about certain important topics. | 19:26 |
| nhandler | !ubuntu | 19:26 |
| nhandler | ubot2: !ubuntu | 19:26 |
| nhandler | Hmmm...Well, I'm not sure why ubot2 is choosing to ignore me right now, but the usual response to something like that would be: | 19:27 |
| nhandler | Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com | 19:27 |
| nhandler | ubuntulog serves as a log bot. It is the bot that causes logs to show up on irclogs.ubuntu.com. Most of the main Ubuntu channels have logs there (including this one) | 19:28 |
| nhandler | Ah, that would be the reason (I forgot we were +m) | 19:29 |
| nhandler | !ubuntu | 19:29 |
| ubot2 | Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com | 19:29 |
| nhandler | :) | 19:29 |
| nhandler | freenode also provides some bots. There is NickServ for managing your account, chanserv for managing channels, memoserv for sending messages to users who might be offline, and alis for searching for channels | 19:30 |
| nhandler | All freenode bots support the 'help' command, so feel free to use that to get information on their usage | 19:30 |
| nhandler | Another common question new users tend to ask concerns cloaks | 19:31 |
| nhandler | Ubuntu only gives out 2 types of cloaks. There are ubuntu/member cloaks for official Ubuntu Members and ubuntu/bot cloaks for bots. Information on the requirements and process for getting these cloaks is available on the wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Cloaks | 19:32 |
| nhandler | freenode also offers 2 types of cloaks. They offer unaffiliated cloaks for free (and unaffiliated bot cloaks) as well as special PDPC cloaks for users who donate. Information on the freenode cloaks is available here: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks | 19:34 |
| nhandler | Cloaks are a useful method to show your affiliation with a project. If you are interested in hiding your IP address for security purposes, you should consider TOR: http://blog.freenode.net/2010/01/connecting-to-freenode-using-tor-sasl/ | 19:35 |
| nhandler | Any questions? | 19:35 |
| ClassBot | LeGambitteur asked: are we allowed to use bots others then official ones ? | 19:36 |
| nhandler | The general rule for bots on freenode is that you should not have them join any channel without permission from the people who manage the channel. You also do not want it to be PMing random users (which might be considered spam) | 19:38 |
| nhandler | You are more than welcome to run a bot in your own IRC channel | 19:38 |
| ClassBot | charlie-tca asked: does memoserv work in the #ubuntu named channels? | 19:38 |
| nhandler | You interact with MemoServ via PM. That means that it does not matter what channel you or another user is in. | 19:39 |
| nhandler | You can prevent yourself from receiving messages from MemoServ with: /msg NickServ HELP SET NOMEMO | 19:39 |
| nhandler | You can also use the following command to cause you to receive all memos as emails: /msg NickServ HELP SET EMAILMEMOS | 19:40 |
| nhandler | Any more questions? | 19:40 |
| ClassBot | sebsebseb asked: When does memoserv tend to get used? | 19:42 |
| nhandler | I tend to use MemoServ if I need to notify an offline user about something non-urgent (as users who do not get email notifications about them sometimes miss reading them). MemoServ is also useful as it tells you when the user has read your memo | 19:44 |
| nhandler | Well, if you are interested in lesser-known features, I have 2 more you might enjoy | 19:46 |
| nhandler | Many users use a /notify feature in their IRC client to get notified when certain people come online | 19:46 |
| nhandler | freenode has a special 'MONITOR' command that allows the server to notify you about these users (rather than having your client query the server) | 19:48 |
| nhandler | A script to add MONITOR support to irssi is available at http://www.stack.nl/~jilles/irc/monitor.pl.txt | 19:49 |
| nhandler | (Information about the command will soon be available on the freenode faq) | 19:49 |
| ClassBot | sebsebseb asked: What's that command again for finding out when an account was registered on the network? | 19:49 |
| nhandler | You can use /msg NickServ INFO NICK to figure out when a nick was registered. That command is also useful for seeing when the nick was last identified to | 19:50 |
| * nhandler notes that the question above is mentioned at: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#inuse as well | 19:51 | |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 19:51 |
| nhandler | Another not-well-known feature has to do with CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG. This is a useful feature for knowing that a user is actually identified. | 19:51 |
| nhandler | You can change your nick to almost anything that you want. For instance, there is nothing stopping you from changing your nick to sabdfl right now. However, CAPAB IDENTIFY-MSG will make it clear to other people that you are not identified, and therefore, it is not safe to assume that you are really Mark Shuttleworth | 19:52 |
| ClassBot | palhmbs asked: which client do you find most useful? | 19:53 |
| nhandler | I run irssi inside of screen. It is a CLI-based IRC client, but it allows me to access my IRC client from any computer I can run ssh on. When I don't have access to ssh, I use the freenode webchat at webchat.freenode.net | 19:54 |
| ClassBot | sebsebseb asked: Do you recommend using nick protection? Maybe you should provide the command for those that don't know how. | 19:54 |
| nhandler | That really depends. For most users here, you will not have to worry about people using your nick while unidentified. If you ever experience that, you can use /msg nickserv help release to reclaim your nick (You will probably have to run the command twice) | 19:54 |
| nhandler | The feature that sebsebseb is referring to will force users to change their nick if they do not identify within 30 seconds: /msg nickserv help set enforce | 19:55 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 19:56 |
| ClassBot | LeGambitteur asked: where can we find useful commands list ? | 19:57 |
| === PhilT is now known as Guest24518 | ||
| nhandler | There are several places to learn about commands. You can PM any of the freenode bots 'HELP' to see all of their commands, you can look through the freenode website (especially the faq and the using the network guide), you can send the HELP command to the server (/quote HELP), or you can look at many of the IRC guides online (although not all of them will apply) | 19:59 |
| nhandler | You can also always ask questions in #freenode | 19:59 |
| nhandler | Alright. We are about out of time. Thanks for attending. | 19:59 |
| nhandler | Feel free to PM me at any time with additional questions (or ask in #freenode). | 20:00 |
| nhandler | Remember to fill out the survey for UUD | 20:00 |
| nhandler | http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 | 20:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Command Line Email Clients for Ubuntu - Instructors: _marx_ | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 20:01 |
| pleia2 | Unfortunately _marx_ got called in to work earlier today and hasn't made it back | 20:01 |
| pleia2 | so we're just going to leave this as a free session, go ahead and stretch your legs :) | 20:02 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 20:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 20:56 |
| pleia2 | Quick reminder before the next session begins, we have a survey that we'd love for you to fill out at the end of the day to help us improve UUD next time: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 | 20:58 |
| pleia2 | it's short :) | 20:58 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Desktop Environments: Gnome, KDE, XFCE - Instructors: maco, pleia2 | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 21:01 |
| pleia2 | Hi everyone! Welcome to the session on Desktop Environments. | 21:01 |
| pleia2 | Quick introductions, I'm Elizabeth Krumbach, a member of the Ubuntu Community Council and I've been using Xubuntu since my first *buntu install and have been using XFCE since 2003. My day job is as Debian Sysadmin. | 21:01 |
| maco | I'm Mackenzie Morgan, and I'm a MOTU & member of the Americas Regional Membership Board. I used Ubuntu from 2006-2008 and Kubuntu 2009 to now. I am an as-of-this-past-Monday member of the real world instead of being a student anymore :P | 21:02 |
| pleia2 | OK, to start out, I will quickly explain what a Desktop Environment is. | 21:03 |
| pleia2 | A Desktop Environment is the full interface, including Window Manager, panels, menus, engines, tools and applications which are put or built to work together. | 21:03 |
| pleia2 | By default, when you install Ubuntu you will get "Gnome" as your Desktop Environment. Other options for a Desktop Environment include KDE and XFCE. | 21:03 |
| pleia2 | I will note, as it can be confusing, but a "Window Manager" is not a "Desktop Environment", it's only a part of it. At the core, a Window Manager simply handles the behavior of the windows on your screen. | 21:03 |
| pleia2 | To add complexity, we've also been hearing a lot about "Unity" and "Gnome Shell" - a "Shell" in the graphical sense is more than a Window Manager and less than a Desktop Environment. If you want to learn more about Unity, jcastro is doing a session at 03:00 UTC. | 21:04 |
| pleia2 | As far as Window Managers go, Gnome uses Metacity, KDE uses KWin, and XFCE uses XFwm. A common example of when you may replace a Window Manager is when you use Compiz Fusion, the window manager which gives you "The Cube" and other effects in the Gnome or KDE Desktop Environments. | 21:04 |
| pleia2 | So, why would you want to switch from Gnome, the default in Ubuntu, to a different Desktop Environment? | 21:05 |
| pleia2 | One popular reason is simply preference. Give another one a try! You may like you find out how customizable the panels are in XFCE, or the flashy widgets are in KDE. | 21:05 |
| pleia2 | Another is speed/performance. Some let you slim down your environment by loading up fewer things by default, some are faster (usually by sacrificing eye candy), some work with lighter window managers which may run better on your system. | 21:05 |
| pleia2 | Any questions so far? | 21:06 |
| pleia2 | < Interficio> So what what desktop enviroment would you suggest if your running the ubuntu netbook edition? | 21:07 |
| pleia2 | the ubuntu netbook edition comes with a version of gnome adapted for the netbook | 21:08 |
| maco | That's what's now known as Unity | 21:08 |
| pleia2 | personally I didn't like it a whole lot and just use regular gnome on my netbook, it's really about personal preference | 21:08 |
| maco | Kubuntu Netbook on the other hand uses Plasma Netbook, an interface upstream KDE created for netbooks | 21:09 |
| maco | So, the default DEs in the various Ubuntu releases are: GNOME in Ubuntu, KDE in Kubuntu, Xfce in Xubuntu, and...well LXDE in Lubuntu but...Lyz are you going to talk about that? Lubuntu isn't official yet, as far as I know. | 21:09 |
| pleia2 | No, we're skipping LXDE this time around | 21:09 |
| maco | You can install any of them from a CD specifically containing that version, or you can install another of them right along with your current version by simply installing the *-desktop metapackage | 21:10 |
| maco | It'll pull in everything that's normally included on the CD for that version and add an entry to the options on your login screen so you can pick between them | 21:11 |
| maco | It won't replace the existing one, just add to it. (And by the way, metapackages are just dummy packages that pull in lots of others as dependencies so you can get full sets.) | 21:11 |
| maco | Each has its own default set of applications. If you get more than one of them, you'll end up with lots of applications installed | 21:12 |
| maco | Many of those will do the same thing | 21:12 |
| maco | You'll also notice that each has its own default theme and wallpaper and all that goodness. Ubuntu's historically been the brown one, but now it's eggplant/aubergine/purple. Kubuntu's the blue one. And Xubuntu's that funny colour that comes between blue and grey | 21:13 |
| ClassBot | taves asked: while running Kubuntu i noticed there were different in sytax ie. instead of gksudo it was kdesudo are all the commands different for each environment | 21:16 |
| pleia2 | not all of them, but as the DEs feel the need they will create and adapt the code to work better within their environment | 21:17 |
| maco | The graphical applications are different, so in that case you're invoking different graphical applications for requesting credentials. You can use gksudo on Kubuntu if you install it. No harm in using "gksudo kate" for example. Normal command line stuff (mv, irssi, cp) is the same though | 21:17 |
| ClassBot | digbydog asked: you mentioned 'upstream' which some other people have used today. Could you explain it's meaning? | 21:17 |
| pleia2 | "upstream" just means the project above the one you're using | 21:17 |
| maco | Code flows from upstream to downstream (like water in a river) | 21:17 |
| pleia2 | right, so there is a gnome project, and ubuntu takes gnome from that, so gnome is upstream from ubuntu | 21:18 |
| maco | Upstream writes it, downstream (in this case Ubuntu) packages it and maybe patches it a bit too | 21:18 |
| ClassBot | nhandler asked: Should I worry if apt says it is going to remove ubuntu-desktop (or another meta package)? | 21:18 |
| maco | It's not the scary "oh god my entire desktop is going away" thing it sounds like, BUT it could make upgrades go less smoothly | 21:19 |
| pleia2 | when it says that, it means you're removing one of the packages that is the ubuntu-desktop meta package pulls in | 21:20 |
| ClassBot | taves asked: so instead of running dual boot Kubuntu and Ubuntu i can install the KDE environment on my *buntu | 21:21 |
| maco | Exactly | 21:21 |
| pleia2 | Ok, that's all the questions for now so we'll move on, now, each of these comes with different software and looks different, we'll now explain a bit about them and how they differ | 21:21 |
| maco | Ubuntu, being GNOME-based, has a top and bottom panel. Bottom lists your windows and workspaces. Top has menus to get to apps and configure stuff and also your clock and all | 21:23 |
| maco | The top panel is also where you find the broadcast UI for using Twitter / Identi.ca | 21:24 |
| maco | Kubuntu uses the KDE4 Plasma-Desktop interface on the desktop mode and Plasma-Netbook for netbooks. Starting with 10.10 (Maverick), these are on a single iso | 21:25 |
| maco | Which interface you see on first login is determined by your screen resolution | 21:25 |
| maco | You can change between them in System Settings -> Workspace if you have a preference. I actually use Plasma Netbook on my 22" screen at work | 21:25 |
| maco | Plasma-Desktop has a fairly normal menu for launching applications (but with a search box) in the bottom left corner | 21:26 |
| maco | Plasma-Netbook has the menu embedded in the desktop | 21:26 |
| maco | Ubuntu's defaut set of applications includes Empathy for IM, Firefox for web, Tomboy for notes, Evolution for mail/cal/address, and some other stuff | 21:28 |
| maco | In Kubuntu these are corresponded to by Kopete, Arora, hmm for notes I think that's mixed into the next bit which is Kontact | 21:29 |
| maco | One thing Kubuntu has that you don't see in Ubuntu so much is that you can have lots of widgets. They can be rotated or resizes or even overlapped. One of these is on the Plasma-Desktop by default to contain all your files and such on the desktop to a small area instead of scattering everywhere | 21:29 |
| maco | In Plasma-Netbook you get a page called Page One that can scroll to fit *even more* widgets on your itty bitty screen | 21:30 |
| maco | Any questions? | 21:30 |
| maco | <shadeslayer> maco: s/arora/rekonq :P <-- he's right. the Kubuntu team went through many arguments about default browser | 21:32 |
| ClassBot | taves asked: using the KDE4 on ubuntu does it keep all my programs and commands? or do i have 2 im's such as empathy and kopete? | 21:32 |
| maco | Yes, you'd have both | 21:32 |
| maco | I used Pidgin with Kubuntu for a long while | 21:33 |
| ClassBot | sebsebseb asked: Is this one of the last one of these kind of sessions for User Days or Open Week? Since soon things will be mainly about Unity and Gnome Shell when comes to Ubuntu. | 21:33 |
| pleia2 | Unity and Gnome Shell are just for Gnome :) | 21:34 |
| maco | You can pry Plasma out of Kubuntu's cold dead hands :P | 21:34 |
| pleia2 | KDE and XFCE will still go on as they are, so next time we can do the same session | 21:34 |
| pleia2 | (with Gnome section expanded to talk about Unity, etc) | 21:35 |
| pleia2 | So, Xfce and Xubuntu! | 21:35 |
| pleia2 | Some examples of how Xubuntu with Xfce differs from Ubuntu: it doesn't come with Open Office, instead it comes with lighter-weight "abiword" for word processing and "gnumeric" for spreadsheets. | 21:35 |
| pleia2 | It does use gdm for the graphical login, and several other gnome things, but even those are discussed each release to see if they are still the best viable option for Xubuntu | 21:36 |
| pleia2 | The default Xubuntu in Lucid looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/xubuntu04.png (maverick didn't change much - but watch out for some exciting changes in natty!) | 21:36 |
| pleia2 | As mentioned above, Xubuntu uses the XFwm by default for the window manager. It uses Thunar for a basic file manager, as sorta seen here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/xubuntu06.png (it's pretty basic though) | 21:37 |
| pleia2 | The Xfce panels (at the top and bottom in the screenshot) have their own items you can add, but you can also use gnome panel items. | 21:37 |
| pleia2 | For some more screenshots of the installation and default configuration of Xubuntu you can see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xfce/ (these were taken from Lucid, but give you a good idea) | 21:38 |
| pleia2 | Most of what you'll find app-wise is that Xubuntu takes apps from other DEs, you can even run the gnome and kde services in the background so things launch more quickly even on Xfce | 21:38 |
| pleia2 | For more, check out http://xubuntu.org/ and http://www.xfce.org/ | 21:39 |
| pleia2 | That pretty much wraps up our prepared presentation, questions? | 21:40 |
| ClassBot | shadeslayer asked: How about metioning edubuntu as well? :D they have this cool new feature where you can launch a edubuntu session on the web | 21:41 |
| maco | Edubuntu is sort of a hybrid of Ubuntu and Kubuntu for educational purposes | 21:41 |
| maco | It's a GNOME desktop with the KDE Education suite added on, and yes, the thing where you can play with it online to try it out is SO COOL | 21:42 |
| pleia2 | and there is also qimo4kids.com - another educational suite which uses XFCE | 21:42 |
| ClassBot | taves asked: so gnome is avail for other *nixs aswell not just ubuntu | 21:42 |
| maco | Yep | 21:42 |
| pleia2 | right | 21:42 |
| maco | Ubuntu's is slightly modified, though...for example the notification system started in Ubuntu (though some other distros offer it in their repos now) | 21:43 |
| ClassBot | taves asked: whats canonical? | 21:43 |
| maco | Canonical is the company that funds Ubuntu development | 21:43 |
| maco | see http://canonical.com | 21:43 |
| pleia2 | they also control the trademarks | 21:43 |
| maco | If you have any questions about Unity, GNOME, and the relationship thereof, hold them for jcastro's session at 0300 UTC please | 21:47 |
| maco | Sorry, make that "questions or opinions" | 21:48 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 21:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 21:56 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Command Line Basics - Instructors: imbrandon | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 22:01 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Command Line Q&A - Instructors: pleia2, paultag | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 22:04 |
| pleia2 | ok, unfortunately our scheduled instructor is a no-show, but this is a popular session so paultag and I will fill in with a more generic command line Q&A | 22:05 |
| pleia2 | When we use the command line we are using a shell. In this context a shell is the most basic way a user can interact with a computer's operating system | 22:05 |
| pleia2 | A shell is a piece of software. A unix type system can have many different shells installed. | 22:06 |
| pleia2 | by default, Ubuntu uses "bash" for the shell that the user sees (and "dash" for /bin/sh - the shell that the system uses) | 22:06 |
| pleia2 | For this session we don't need to be concerned with the differences between dash and bash, but be aware that they exist | 22:06 |
| pleia2 | now we won't have a set agenda, so we're just going to open the floor to questions, so open up a terminal and as away! | 22:08 |
| pleia2 | s/as/ask | 22:08 |
| paultag | anyone? bueller? bueller? | 22:08 |
| pleia2 | ok, well while we wait for questions I can run through some of the basics I first learned | 22:09 |
| paultag | There :) | 22:09 |
| ClassBot | paultag asked: Why do we use that scary black terminal thing? What use is it? | 22:09 |
| pleia2 | Well, the easy answer is that you typically don't have to, these days with Ubuntu there are ways to do many of your common system tasks via the graphical interface | 22:10 |
| ClassBot | obengdako asked: without screen and byobu would there be a nicer way of multitasking in shells not including using & and disown | 22:10 |
| paultag | Humm, what an interesting question | 22:10 |
| pleia2 | but it helps when you want to learn more about how your system works, have to do some complicated changes (maybe due to a hardware problem, graphics not working?) or if you need to do debugging (program crashing? launch it from a terminal instead to see if it tells you the problem ) | 22:10 |
| paultag | the UNIX system was created in the footsteps of the ITS system at MIT. It really was designed to allow processes to stop, pause, and resume without breaking like other systems of the day | 22:11 |
| paultag | so you can always stop / start apps, using ctrl + z, fg / ctrl + s / q and so forth | 22:11 |
| paultag | but it was designed to be "under" your bash shell, screen and byobu really are unique because they let you buffer bash through that | 22:12 |
| paultag | and it lets you really isolate processes in a way that it was not really designed to do, so the short answer is no. If you want to detach, quit, and login elsewhere on the same system, you'll need something like screen | 22:12 |
| paultag | or know how to redirect stuff in /proc/ to your shell, but that's not basic! | 22:12 |
| ClassBot | vigs asked: could you list a few commands of intermediate level (not too simple like cd etc.) which can be used to easily do tasks that people regularly do ? | 22:12 |
| pleia2 | this is a good question, and lets us get into the basics a little | 22:12 |
| pleia2 | so for those of you who never opened a terminal before (or feel hopelessly lost when you do) the "cd etc" in this question include: | 22:13 |
| pleia2 | ls | 22:13 |
| pleia2 | when you open a terminal and type "ls" it gives you a directory listing of all your files, by default when you open a terminal this will be in your home directory | 22:13 |
| pleia2 | to change directories you use "cd" so to go into folder foo/ you "cd foo" | 22:14 |
| pleia2 | to manipulate files you have commands like move "mv" and copy "cp" | 22:14 |
| paultag | (rename is just a move;) | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | to edit a file you can use the command line editor "nano" so: nano filename | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | (no need to include .txt in the filename) | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | now, intermediate commands | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | there are LOTS of them! | 22:15 |
| ClassBot | Ddorda asked: even though you said we should be concerned about it, you mentioned dash, and i know there are more few kinds of shells. can you explain the differences? | 22:15 |
| pleia2 | paultag: hold up :) | 22:15 |
| paultag | Shoot, sorry :) | 22:16 |
| pleia2 | "history" is a good one, it gives you the full history of commands you've typed | 22:16 |
| pleia2 | "df" tells you how much space you have in different partitions (try "df -h" for human readable) | 22:16 |
| paultag | don't forget stuff like `netstat' and `lsof' | 22:17 |
| paultag | those can help you see active connections to files or external sockets :) | 22:17 |
| pleia2 | "lsmod" is super helpful when debugging hardware problems - it's "ls" (list) plus "mod" which means modules | 22:17 |
| pleia2 | so it "lists modules" that you have loaded | 22:17 |
| pleia2 | modules are like drivers in windows | 22:17 |
| === Flavio is now known as Guest43676 | ||
| pleia2 | you can also manipulate permissions of files on the command line, using commands like "chmod" "chown" and "chgrp" | 22:18 |
| pleia2 | a quick google search for "linux commands" will find lots more :) | 22:19 |
| paultag | `clicompanion' rocks for this, as well | 22:19 |
| paultag | and it was written by a member of the beginners team, so it's aimed for new users! | 22:19 |
| pleia2 | paultag: ppa? | 22:19 |
| paultag | Yeah, I'll grab the repo ID | 22:19 |
| paultag | http://okiebuntu.homelinux.com/okwiki/clicompanion <-- that's the howto :) | 22:20 |
| paultag | pleia2: mind if I move on to Ddorda's question? | 22:20 |
| pleia2 | paultag: please do | 22:20 |
| pleia2 | The author of the Bash Cookbook speaks at the Philadelphia LUG I used to run, he did a presentation on bash vs dash a couple years ago, his slides are here: http://princessleia.com/plug/2008-JP_bash_vs_dash.pdf | 22:21 |
| paultag | Each shell has a different feature set -- just like KDE / Fluxbox / GNOME / Unity have their strong points and weak points, so do the shells. Each has a slightly different dialect of the same language | 22:21 |
| paultag | shells like zsh have a cult following | 22:21 |
| paultag | csh trys to be like C, so scripting will be easier to those with C background ( but it ends up just being confusing ) | 22:21 |
| paultag | 99% of the time bash does what you need it to do -- but there are those "1%-ers" | 22:22 |
| ClassBot | gpc asked: Why isn't the .txt needed? | 22:23 |
| paultag | the full filename on the computer includes ".txt" -- unless of course it does not on the machine ;) -- so to edit a file "foo.txt" you need to use `nano foo.txt', and not `nano foo' | 22:23 |
| pleia2 | +if | 22:24 |
| paultag | because to the GNU userland / filesystem / kernel foo.txt is a totally different file then foo, or FOO.txt | 22:24 |
| paultag | when in doubt, use tab | 22:24 |
| pleia2 | Linux doesn't tend to be as strict about extensions as a system like Windows is, so while Windows may complain that a file has no ".txt" on it, it's pretty common in linux | 22:25 |
| paultag | +1 | 22:25 |
| paultag | we use magic numbers at the head of the file | 22:25 |
| * pleia2 hasn't used .txt in years :) | 22:25 | |
| paultag | that's why you see "#!--->" at the top of a script | 22:25 |
| paultag | pleia2: me neither ;) | 22:25 |
| paultag | 22:25 < mhall119> for more command line fun, run "file foo" and it'll tell you what kind of file "foo" is. | 22:26 |
| paultag | Yeah, this. That uses the magic number of a file to "ID" it | 22:26 |
| pleia2 | great tip :) | 22:26 |
| ClassBot | mhall119 asked: Where can I find helpful instructions on how to use all these commands? | 22:26 |
| paultag | manual pages! | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | most commands have "man" pages, so if you wnt to learn more about ls: man ls | 22:27 |
| paultag | +1 pleia2 :) | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | some also have info pages | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | info ls | 22:27 |
| paultag | manual pages are also great for looking at files, as well | 22:27 |
| pleia2 | and most also have a --help, so: ls --help | 22:27 |
| paultag | +1 | 22:28 |
| ClassBot | txomon asked: the X enviromenth is executed in a shell, how can it execute more than a windows? doesn't it suspend it? | 22:28 |
| paultag | Interesting question, txomon | 22:28 |
| paultag | tritium: the trick here is using subprocesses | 22:28 |
| paultag | so, when you start X, it uses raw library calls to the video subsystem ( through a networked interface ) to draw your windows | 22:29 |
| paultag | X it's self is just a server, much like apache2 | 22:29 |
| paultag | and just like any server, when you connect with a client ( like a web browser for apache ), it handles each client on it's own | 22:30 |
| paultag | in that way, when you start an X application, it connects ( like a browser ) to it, and "talks" back and forth | 22:30 |
| paultag | and so each process is isolated and talking over a socket :) | 22:31 |
| ClassBot | mhall119 asked: Oh No! "ls --help" is too long and scrolls out of view, how can I display it a page at a time? | 22:31 |
| pleia2 | you can pipe the output to a command "less" or "more" | 22:31 |
| pleia2 | ls --help | less | 22:31 |
| pleia2 | that confines it to your terminal, you just hit the space bar to page down, esc to exit | 22:32 |
| ClassBot | Ddorda asked: recently i saw someone climbing up in the shell prompt! was it magic? | 22:33 |
| pleia2 | if you hit the up arrow, you can get to the last command you typed | 22:33 |
| pleia2 | *super* helpful! | 22:33 |
| pleia2 | if you hit the up arrow more, it scrolls through your history one line at a time | 22:33 |
| ClassBot | txomon asked: When I press cntl+alt+<functionkey> I switch to another shell, is there any difference between that and executing a shell in X enviroment? | 22:33 |
| paultag | Not one bit. You won't be able to start X apps by default ( you'll need to start an X server session and export it ), but you have the exact same shell as an X shell | 22:34 |
| paultag | but on TTY1, you can run something like `export DISPLAY=":0.0"' to use X apps | 22:34 |
| paultag | but no, same commands, same system | 22:34 |
| pleia2 | 14:35:40 < Ddorda> for ex. if you get a super long answer to "ls", he didn't use |more, but scrolled up | 22:35 |
| pleia2 | clarification from previous question | 22:36 |
| pleia2 | most terminals allow you to to hold down shift and hit the "page up" key to read the terminal buffer | 22:36 |
| ClassBot | mhall119 asked: what if I want to re-run a command I ran like 50 commands back, I remember the start of it, but not the parameters, do I have to hit 'up' 50 times? | 22:36 |
| pleia2 | no, there are a couple ways to tackle this | 22:37 |
| pleia2 | you can search through the history, so if you know your command starts with "ls" you can: history | grep ls | 22:38 |
| paultag | !command is usually the most common way ( if it was the last command you ran with that binary ) | 22:38 |
| paultag | or grepping history, too :) | 22:38 |
| pleia2 | you'll see a number next to the list it returns, so in mine I see: | 22:38 |
| pleia2 | 499 info ls | 22:38 |
| pleia2 | to run that again, I just: !499 | 22:38 |
| pleia2 | there are also fancy ways to search bash history, but they aren't consistant between shells | 22:39 |
| pleia2 | 14:39:09 < mhall119> paultag: pleia2: with bash, you can also hit ctrl+r and start typing the beginning of the command | 22:39 |
| pleia2 | 14:39:15 < mhall119> it'll search ~/.bash_history | 22:39 |
| pleia2 | ^^ a good example :) | 22:39 |
| paultag | +1 there | 22:39 |
| ClassBot | UndiFineD asked: I always forget how I executed a command in the past, how can i eassily retrieve that ? , I think it was something like: !command | 22:40 |
| paultag | 22:39 < UndiFineD> paultag: is it !command:p to show the command before execution ? | 22:40 |
| paultag | UndiFineD: yes, thanks :) | 22:40 |
| ClassBot | txomon asked: When I want to run a X app, I must start a shell, but if I close it, the app closes. Is there any way to let it work without that shell? | 22:41 |
| paultag | Oh yes, this is a good one | 22:41 |
| paultag | the trick is when you close a TTY it's like "hanging up" the side of your TTY | 22:41 |
| paultag | so, there's a fun binary called "nohup", which takes the SIGHUP call and trashes it | 22:41 |
| paultag | so, to run nm-applet in a x terminal and close it, try running it likeL | 22:42 |
| paultag | `nohup nm-applet &' | 22:42 |
| paultag | it will log output for you as well :) | 22:42 |
| paultag | it's really handy and fun to use | 22:43 |
| paultag | that or alt+f2 | 22:43 |
| paultag | then the system'll take care of forking it and pushing it to the background | 22:43 |
| ClassBot | vigs asked: When I do a ctrl+r search, it takes me to the last time i used the command. Suppose I want to browse through all the uses of that command, is there a way to do that with Ctrl+r ? | 22:44 |
| paultag | I don't think so :( | 22:45 |
| paultag | try patching bash! ;) | 22:45 |
| paultag | usually tabing would work, but I've not tried it | 22:46 |
| paultag | nope, tabbing fails. I have no idea | 22:46 |
| ClassBot | LeGambitteur asked: is the command history limited ? If so how to increase it ? | 22:46 |
| pleia2 | oh | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | 14:46:54 < mhall119> pleia2: hit ctrl-r again while it's searching and it'll step through anything that matches the current search | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | there we go :) | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | the command history is 500 by default | 22:47 |
| paultag | 22:46 < mhall119> pleia2: hit ctrl-r again while it's searching and it'll step through anything that matches the current search | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | to increase it you'll need to edit your .bashrc to add: | 22:47 |
| paultag | Oh shoot. Sorry for the double post :) | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | export HISTSIZE=1000 | 22:47 |
| pleia2 | ^^ makes it 1000 rather than 500 | 22:47 |
| ClassBot | obengdako asked: nohup is it equivalent to command + & + disown & | 22:48 |
| paultag | Wooo, I love this question | 22:48 |
| paultag | YES! and it's actually slightly more "clean" since bash is not even sending a HUP signal | 22:48 |
| paultag | BUT, that's a "bashism" | 22:48 |
| paultag | it's not present as a binary in the system, or some sort of global flag, so know that that command will only work for bash | 22:49 |
| paultag | I'm not sure about dash, but the shell I wrote did not have disown, so I had to use nohup ( and it works globally ) | 22:49 |
| paultag | so if you are writing for others, use nohup. If you're just playing around, disown is great | 22:49 |
| paultag | obengdako: is that good? | 22:50 |
| paultag | or were you looking for something else? | 22:50 |
| ClassBot | UndiFineD asked: how to log compilation into one file ? | 22:51 |
| ClassBot | UndiFineD asked: how to log compilation into one file ? >1&2 or something | 22:51 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 22:51 |
| paultag | usually it's 2>&1 | 22:51 |
| paultag | and that takes stderr and pipes it to stdout, so that you can dump both together | 22:52 |
| paultag | it's handy for logging errors as well as messages from the application in question | 22:52 |
| paultag | foo > bar # will push stdout into a file | 22:52 |
| paultag | I'm not totally clear on the question, pleia2 ? | 22:52 |
| pleia2 | that's good :) | 22:53 |
| paultag | cool :) | 22:53 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 22:56 |
| paultag | 5 minutes, take your best shot, guys! | 22:56 |
| ClassBot | txomon asked: Is there any good guide to learn to use shell? | 22:58 |
| paultag | tons. The best way is to use it to do casual stuff ( browsing the filesystem, renaming files, and so forth ), but again, the `clicompanion' app is fantastic for this | 22:58 |
| paultag | it can help teach the basics. Once you have that, a bash scripting guide actually helps day-to-day bash a lot | 22:59 |
| paultag | and keep in mind that once you're past the basics, you're learning the shell and not the GNU/Linux userland so much :) | 22:59 |
| pleia2 | http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ is great (don't be scared off by "advanced" | 22:59 |
| paultag | (stuff like disown) | 22:59 |
| paultag | +1 pleia2 | 22:59 |
| paultag | I learned from that page, and I love it | 23:00 |
| paultag | 22:58 < _marx_> learning the bash shell oreilly book | 23:00 |
| paultag | not bad either, a great book for sure | 23:00 |
| === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Asking questions on Launchpad and Reporting bugs on Launchpad - Instructors: charlie-tca | ||
| ClassBot | Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/29/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. | 23:01 |
| charlie-tca | I'm Charlie Kravetz, known as charlie-tca on irc and the mailing lists. I am Xubuntu Quality Assurance Lead, a member of ubuntu-bugsquad, bug-control, and a bugsquad mentor. | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | I test the latest development images, and am using Xubuntu Natty Narwhal on my daily machine. This gives me considerable experience in testing, filing bugs, and helping others with bugs. | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | I am also one the bug triagers that checks the bug reports to make sure there is enough information for the developer to begin working to resolve your issues. | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | I am going to talk about Asking Questions on Launchpad and Filing Bugs on Launchpad. | 23:02 |
| charlie-tca | Please keep questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat. Please make sure you keep them prefaced with "QUESTION: " so people can see them. If I am going to answer you question during my session, I will skip over it or save it for later. Please don't feel ignored. | 23:03 |
| charlie-tca | Launchpad is a collaboration and hosting platform for software projects. | 23:03 |
| charlie-tca | It brings communities together by making it easy to share code, bug reports, translations and ideas across projects. | 23:04 |
| charlie-tca | Before you can ask a question or report a bug, you must sign up for Launchpad. | 23:04 |
| charlie-tca | Signing up for Launchpad is easy. If you have never registered in launchpad, there is an excellent help guide to get you started at https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount | 23:04 |
| charlie-tca | In my experience, this is a very well written guide to registering and getting started with Launchpad. Why do you want to register? | 23:05 |
| charlie-tca | It gives you easy access to all the great things offered by Launchpad! One of those great Launchpad offerings is called Launchpad Answers. | 23:06 |
| charlie-tca | While mailing lists, web forums, and IRC are great places to find help with free software they do have a couple of shortcomings: | 23:06 |
| charlie-tca | (a) There's no way to track the progress of a question and | 23:07 |
| charlie-tca | (b) knowledge about the software is spread across different places. | 23:07 |
| charlie-tca | An alternative solution to that is Launchpad Answers. Launchpad Answers is a place that keeps track of questions, the comments on those questions, and the answers to those questions. | 23:07 |
| charlie-tca | It notifies volunteer support contacts of new questions, builds a searchable knowledge base of good answers, and allows people to ask questions and offer support in different languages. | 23:08 |
| charlie-tca | Using Launchpad Answers is easy, just visit the Answers page at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu. | 23:08 |
| charlie-tca | heh, yes, it does seem strange to go to something called "answers" to ask a question. | 23:08 |
| charlie-tca | If you are not logged into launchpad, you will be asked to login before you can ask a question. Since you already registered, just click the login link at the top and sign in. | 23:09 |
| charlie-tca | Now, if you are not in a hurry, it is a good idea to browse the link called "All FAQs". This is a listing of the "Frequently Asked Questions". | 23:09 |
| charlie-tca | Many times, I find there are questions and answers in the FAQ that have been bothering me, but were not important enough for me to ask. | 23:09 |
| charlie-tca | Don't get lost in the FAQs, though. Your own question is important. You can always come back to this and browse through the list. | 23:10 |
| charlie-tca | You do not need to look to see if your question is already asked, since one of the great features in Launchpad is that it will look for your question. | 23:10 |
| charlie-tca | You will also see on the right side, a link called "My questions". After you have asked a question, you can click this link to see the questions you have asked, and any comments or answers. | 23:12 |
| charlie-tca | This makes it easier to find your own questions later, instead of trying to remember what the question was, or the link to it that you forgot to write down. | 23:13 |
| charlie-tca | You only need the one link to find it later, the same link you used and bookmarked to ask the question - https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu | 23:13 |
| charlie-tca | You will also see a list called "Answer contacts for Ubuntu". These are some of the people who have volunteered to answer questions. | 23:14 |
| charlie-tca | They are notified by automatic email of questions asked, and will do their best to answer questions they know the answer to. | 23:15 |
| charlie-tca | Now, click on the "Ask a Question" link in the right top of the page. Next, type good summary to your question, making sure that the question is entered clearly. | 23:15 |
| charlie-tca | "Please help me!" or "I need help" is not a good question. A good summary tells what your problem is, in as few words as you can use. | 23:15 |
| charlie-tca | A good summary would be "How to replace a hard drive without losing the boot loader" or "How do I back-up my data on my hard drive to my cd drive?" | 23:16 |
| charlie-tca | Of course, a summary that is more than one or two lines is much too long to be useful. Put that extra information in the description instead. | 23:16 |
| charlie-tca | Click on next, and Launchpad will now search for existing questions that look similar. Don't you just hate those places that ask you to search before you ask? | 23:16 |
| charlie-tca | Launchpad Answers took care of that for you. If it finds anything that loos like your question, it will show you them. | 23:16 |
| charlie-tca | If Launchpad doesn't find any similar questions, or those it finds are unhelpful to you, you can write a more detailed description of your problem and submit your question. | 23:17 |
| charlie-tca | Once you've added your question, Launchpad emails anyone who's volunteered to be an answer contact for your language. | 23:17 |
| charlie-tca | They can then ask you for more information or offer an answer. Launchpad will then email you whenever your question changes, such as when someone suggests an answer. | 23:17 |
| charlie-tca | If someone does ask for more information, please be polite in answering. Not everyone is as well versed in your language as you, and may not understand the way the question was worded. | 23:18 |
| charlie-tca | When adding information, it is usually good to add it as a comment, rather than expand the original description. Many of us do not realize the description was modified, and miss the added material. | 23:18 |
| charlie-tca | When adding information, it is usually good to add it as a comment, rather than expand the original description. Many of us do not realize the description was modified, and miss the added material. | 23:18 |
| charlie-tca | <txomon> QUESTION: Is there any type of connection between the forum and the IRC channel? a question might be answered in the chat, and no one would be able to see it later-- | 23:19 |
| charlie-tca | No, to the best of my knowledge, there is no connection. The log files would have to be transcribed to the format used in the forums | 23:20 |
| charlie-tca | and, yes, we do answer the answer quite often sometimes on IRC. | 23:20 |
| charlie-tca | the good news is... Most of us realize that there is no "search" for the question and will answer it each time. | 23:21 |
| charlie-tca | Thats about it for LP answers. Are there any other questions? | 23:21 |
| charlie-tca | Okay, so lets move on to bug reporting now. Ubuntu, as you may already know, uses Launchpad for reporting bugs. | 23:22 |
| charlie-tca | Launchpad is a very good bug tracker. We'll be covering how to make your bug report more complete and therefore more likely to get fixed! | 23:22 |
| charlie-tca | Very often we see bug reports with incomplete information, which means more time is spent getting the actual information. If you give proper information, its easy for us triagers to confirm the bug so the developers can look into it. | 23:23 |
| ClassBot | txomon asked: Years ago, I submited a bug and I had no response (wifi hw problem), I tried with the latest driver months ago, and replyed the 1st bug I created... Is there any way to make it be reviewed? | 23:23 |
| charlie-tca | That is a great question! and right on time, too. Thanks, txomon | 23:24 |
| charlie-tca | As bug triagers, we do attempt to get the bugs reported ready for the developers to step up and work them. We use the status of the bug to let us know what is happening | 23:25 |
| charlie-tca | when we ask questions. | 23:25 |
| charlie-tca | The triager asked you for more information. You supplied some of it, but never responded to his second request for trying the mainline kernel. | 23:26 |
| charlie-tca | Since he did not have all the information, he never completed getting the bug ready. | 23:27 |
| charlie-tca | Also, I see you moved status to confirmed. Let's examine the bug status down the road a bit. | 23:27 |
| charlie-tca | Even though you can report bugs directly to Launchpad, we suggest that you don't you do that. | 23:28 |
| charlie-tca | In fact, most of the time, the appropriate information is never really attached or given when you report directly. | 23:28 |
| charlie-tca | When you are ready to file a bug report, and need some help with it, please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs | 23:29 |
| charlie-tca | If an application crashes, and you're using a version of Ubuntu which is actively under development, Apport will start automatically, raising an appropriate bug report for you to complete in Launchpad. This provides developers with rich debugging information that will make it easier to fix the problem. | 23:29 |
| charlie-tca | For more information about apport, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport | 23:29 |
| charlie-tca | Most of the time, to file your bug report that is not a crash, you will use a small command line program called "ubuntu-bug". Don't let the words "command line" scare you, please. It is not going to be all typing without the graphics. | 23:30 |
| charlie-tca | Let's say that nautilus is giving you trouble. To report a bug about nautilus, you simply hit Alt+F2, and type "ubuntu-bug nautilus" without those quotes, and click on "Run". | 23:30 |
| charlie-tca | The format is "ubuntu-bug <package-name>", making it important that you try to have the package correct. | 23:30 |
| charlie-tca | Many times, the package will be the application that just gave you the problems. You can click on Help -> About to get the name. | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | To know more about finding the right package, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | To file a bug against a program that is currently running, go to System > Administration > System Monitor, and find the ID of the process. | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | Then type the process ID instead of the <package-name> into the Alt+F2 window. | 23:31 |
| charlie-tca | Having done that, wait. It is gathering the information about the application that is needed for your bug report. You should get a window titled "Apport". | 23:32 |
| charlie-tca | When all the information is gathered, you will see a question "Send problem report to the developers?" Please click on "Send Report". | 23:32 |
| charlie-tca | This opens a window in your web browser or firefox. You will be asked questions now. You may have to type in a summary. Please make this as short but descriptive as possible. | 23:33 |
| charlie-tca | This is the bug report title, so "crashed" is not a good summary. "Crashed when I opened 1000 files" is good. "Frozen for 10 minutes when I opened 1000 files at once" is better. | 23:33 |
| charlie-tca | You will also be given a list of similar bugs to compare your bug to. If it doesn't match any, or is a bug report about the audio, linux, or graphics, please check "file a new report". | 23:34 |
| charlie-tca | You are also give a large window called description or "Further Information". | 23:34 |
| charlie-tca | "I don't know, I was away when this crash happens" is an accurate description, but not helpful. | 23:34 |
| charlie-tca | When you submit a bug report, it's important to specify three things: | 23:34 |
| charlie-tca | (1) What you expected to happen | 23:34 |
| charlie-tca | (2) What actually happened | 23:35 |
| charlie-tca | (3) The minimal series of steps necessary to make it happen, where step 1 is "I clicked on ???". | 23:35 |
| charlie-tca | I personally look at over 1000 bugs a month. I don't know all the programs, and I don't use most of them. | 23:36 |
| charlie-tca | I like to add when asking a reporter to do this, "please tell me how to do this if I have never used this program or application". | 23:36 |
| charlie-tca | If I have a good step by step procedure, I will do everything I can to reproduce the issue, so we can tell the developer what they need to fix the issue. | 23:37 |
| charlie-tca | Fill in the description field with as much information as you can, including the release of Ubuntu you are using. | 23:37 |
| charlie-tca | It is better to have too much information in the description than not enough. | 23:38 |
| charlie-tca | <txomon> QUESTION: the url you previously submited the HowTo report a bug, Is good for reporting a bug from the packages, but it doesn't say anything about kernel (just to submit a new one) Is there any other that refers to this specific? | 23:39 |
| charlie-tca | Thanks for asking! | 23:39 |
| charlie-tca | we try to confuse the reporter with the kernel bugs. There is no package labeled "kernel". | 23:40 |
| charlie-tca | In Ubuntu, the kernel, which is what everything else requires to work, is called "linux" | 23:40 |
| charlie-tca | Therefore, any bug against the kernel, gets the package linux asigned to it. | 23:41 |
| charlie-tca | txomon: Does that answer the question? | 23:42 |
| charlie-tca | <UndiFineD> QUESTION: I get APPORT maximum errors reported | 23:43 |
| charlie-tca | Another very good question! | 23:43 |
| charlie-tca | This is harder to answer. It usually happens when you get too many crashes without reporting the bugs. | 23:43 |
| charlie-tca | sometimes, it means whatever is crashing is crashing over and over. | 23:45 |
| charlie-tca | There are two ways to fix this one. The quick and easy one is to remove the .crash reports from /var/crash | 23:46 |
| charlie-tca | Unfortunately, that doesn't help us get anything fixed. | 23:46 |
| charlie-tca | instead, open your terminal, go to /var/crash, and use | 23:48 |
| charlie-tca | ubuntu-bug -c <location of apport file> to file the bug | 23:49 |
| charlie-tca | In Nautilus, you can also double-click the file to file the report. | 23:49 |
| charlie-tca | and that happens to be the same command you can use to file a bug if your system is offline when it crashes | 23:50 |
| ClassBot | There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. | 23:51 |
| charlie-tca | Only describe a single problem per bug report so that each can be followed up on in detail. If you experience several issues file separate reports. | 23:51 |
| charlie-tca | Add supporting attachments to explain or help others reproduce your bug. This might include a screenshot or video capture of the problem or a sample document that triggers the fault. | 23:52 |
| charlie-tca | To add an attachment to the bug use the "Include an attachment" section of the bug form. | 23:52 |
| charlie-tca | Additional attachments, if necessary, can be added after the bug is reported via "Add a comment/attachment" at the bottom of the page, after the report is filed. | 23:52 |
| charlie-tca | If for some reason you cannot file a bug through the Apport tool you can file one via Launchpad. When doing so please ensure that you have determined which package it should be filed against. | 23:53 |
| charlie-tca | Please read the "Finding the right package" link, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage. | 23:53 |
| charlie-tca | To report a bug when you don't know the package name https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect - please use this as the last instance. If you need help with filing a bug, do drop by at #ubuntu-bugs. We'd be happy to help. | 23:53 |
| charlie-tca | You should be aware, if you do file the bug directly, we are going to ask you a lot of questions, and have you attach several files to the bug report in most cases. | 23:54 |
| charlie-tca | Please subscribe to the bug you file. Any changes or added comments will then be sent to you by email. This keeps you informed of the need for more information or even when the bug gets fixed. | 23:55 |
| charlie-tca | If a request for more information goes without a response for 60 days, most of the time, the bug will expire, and the developers will not look at it again. | 23:55 |
| charlie-tca | Okay, let's hit status quickly | 23:56 |
| ClassBot | There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. | 23:56 |
| charlie-tca | Most bugs will start out in "New" status. It remains there until the triager gets to it, or someone else experiences the bug. | 23:56 |
| charlie-tca | The triager will change the status to confirmed if all the information is complete. | 23:57 |
| charlie-tca | Please do not set your own bugs to confirmed. It tends to confuse us and we don't come back to them. | 23:57 |
| charlie-tca | If you added information to the bug, please set it back to New. That triggers us to look more | 23:57 |
| charlie-tca | We will move the bug to triaged to tell the developer we think it is complete. | 23:58 |
| charlie-tca | If you need further help with filing a bug, or have questions about the bug you filed, please ask in #ubuntu-bugs, and we will do our best to help you. | 23:58 |
| charlie-tca | Any other questions? | 23:59 |
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