[00:00] <charlie-tca> Thank you all for attending today's sessions. I hope you find them as interesting and helpful as we enjoy doing them.
[00:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[00:02] <cprofitt> hello all
[00:05] <cprofitt> We are going to discuss - Switching to Ubuntu
[00:05] <cprofitt> There are really two 'ways' of doing this...
[00:05] <cprofitt> 1)  Leave your former OS and use only Ubuntu
[00:06] <cprofitt> 2) gradually changing from your other OS to Ubuntu
[00:07] <cprofitt> I am going to make the assumption that most would want to take option 2 as the first one can be fairly frightening
[00:07] <cprofitt> in both cases the first step would be to back up your data... your data can not be re-installed like an OS can
[00:07] <cprofitt> so make sure you have that backed up.
[00:08] <cprofitt> if you are running Windows 7 you can actually backup your data and your OS (in case you want to go back)
[00:10] <cprofitt> in other cases you can simple copy your data files over to an external storage device; hard drive or usb memory stick
[00:10] <cprofitt> any question yet at this point?
[00:11] <cprofitt> ok... moving on
[00:12] <cprofitt> once you have your backup complete you will want to decide -- full Linux, dual environment or virtual environment
[00:12] <cprofitt> both of the later two allow you to use both operating systems
[00:12] <cprofitt> a virtual environment will allow you to use both at the same time
[00:12] <cprofitt> this is the method many of us choose when we have applications that can not be replaced that run only in Windows
[00:13] <cprofitt> I want to stress that such applications are rare for home users, but they do exist... or in some cases you may prefer a Windows application to its alternatives
[00:14] <cprofitt> the only applications that can not run in a virtual environment are most Windows games (they require 3d acceleration) and some multimedia applications that also make use of direct3D functionality like Movie Maker
[00:15] <cprofitt> good examples of software that can be used inside a virtual environment are Active Directory management tools, VMWare Management tools, tax software and numerous others
[00:16] <cprofitt> If you need applications that require hardware 3d acceleration you will want a dual boot solution and not a virtual solution
[00:16] <cprofitt> A one hour block is too small to go in to the complete details
[00:16] <cprofitt> but here is a link to a set of instructions for dual booting
[00:16] <cprofitt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot
[00:17] <cprofitt> you can also ask for assistance in #ubuntu-beginners
[00:17] <cprofitt> here is another wiki page about dual booting
[00:17] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DualBootMigration
[00:18] <cprofitt> the one recommendation I do have is that if you have Windows 7 or Vista that you should use the built-in partition editor (Windows) to resize your Windows partition
[00:18] <cprofitt> there is a lower chance of an issue
[00:19] <cprofitt> The best write up I have seen for using Windows to resize your partition is here
[00:19] <cprofitt> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/resize-a-partition-for-free-in-windows-vista/
[00:20] <cprofitt> Another option is to use that does not require a repartion is using Wubi
[00:20] <cprofitt> instructions for this can be found here
[00:20] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide
[00:21] <cprofitt> Wubi actually loads inside of Windows and takes care of installing Ubuntu
[00:21] <cprofitt> for virtualization you have two options
[00:22] <cprofitt> run Ubuntu as a guest on Windows
[00:22] <cprofitt> or run Windows as a guest on Ubuntu
[00:22] <cprofitt> personally, as a Microsoft Systems Administrator by day, I prefer to run Windows as my guest
[00:23] <cprofitt> Ubuntu takes less memory and I feel much more secure being able to control my firewall with Linux than the other way around
[00:23] <cprofitt> in both cases I would recommend using VirtualBox
[00:23] <cprofitt> Mostly because VirtualBox is cross platform
[00:23] <cprofitt> http://www.virtualbox.org/
[00:24] <cprofitt> regardless of how you choose to take that first step... your next step will be trying to be 'productive' in your new OS environment
[00:24] <cprofitt> one of the sites that helped me evaluate 'alternative' applications was Linux App Finder
[00:25] <cprofitt> http://linuxappfinder.com/alternatives
[00:25] <cprofitt> if you were using FOSS apps on Windows you will likely be able to just install the same applications on Ubuntu, but if you were in the jail cell with the proprietary apps you will find the site very useful
[00:27] <cprofitt> the site has multiple applications for each proprietary application and when you click on the app you are presented with a page that gives you a description, a rating (if it has been rated), a link to the app's website and if the application is in the repositories
[00:27] <cprofitt> repositories...
[00:27] <cprofitt> wondering what they are?
[00:27] <cprofitt> repositories are what inspired Apple to build the 'app store'
[00:28] <cprofitt> repositories contain multiple applications that are able to be installed on your computer without fear of getting a trojan or malware
[00:28] <cprofitt> In Ubuntu in is called the Ubuntu SOftware Center
[00:28] <cprofitt> which is also a great place to just browse for applications
[00:29] <cprofitt> maybe even find some great ones that you would not have known about
[00:29] <cprofitt> the best part... no expense to try them
[00:29] <cprofitt> palhmbs> QUESTION: Is it better to start with an older Ubuntu version if my machine is low spec?
[00:30] <cprofitt> palhmbs: I would say no. If you machine is too low spec to run the full Ubuntu I would try a up-to-date version of one of the low spec alternatives
[00:31] <cprofitt> lubuntu, xubuntu or even use the alternative installer and carefully choose the components you want
[00:31] <cprofitt> if your version is too far back it will not be official supported...
[00:31] <cprofitt> updates, etc...
[00:31] <cprofitt> LTS versions, on the desktop, are supported for two years
[00:32] <cprofitt> it will all depend on what you want to do and how 'low' your computer specs really are
[00:33] <cprofitt> if you have a low spec machine and want to learn a lot about Ubuntu I would recommend the alternate installer
[00:33] <cprofitt> once you have installed Ubuntu you will certainly run in to issues...
[00:34] <cprofitt> do not let those bumps get you down... all OSes have bumps
[00:34] <cprofitt> in fact problems with Ubuntu are what made me discover the best part about Ubuntu
[00:34] <cprofitt> the community... and the depth of support and the willingness of that community to help me
[00:35] <cprofitt> there was never any RTFM or insults about how foolish my questions were
[00:35] <cprofitt> the support also does not cost you $300 per incident like Microsoft suport does
[00:35] <cprofitt> with Ubuntu you have the following places for support
[00:35] <cprofitt> http://askubuntu.com/
[00:36] <cprofitt> http://ubuntuforums.org/
[00:36] <cprofitt> https://help.ubuntu.com/
[00:36] <cprofitt> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
[00:37] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
[00:38] <cprofitt> AskUbuntu is realtively new, but it has the great feature of having the 'best' answer (voted on by those using AskUbuntu) at the top right underneath the question
[00:38] <cprofitt> The forums have fantastic tutorials
[00:38] <cprofitt> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100
[00:39] <cprofitt> and a forum area just for beginners who are making the transition like you
[00:39] <cprofitt> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326
[00:39] <cprofitt> if you are a programmer there is an area for you as well
[00:39] <cprofitt> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39
[00:40] <cprofitt> I will not link the rest, but you have areas for Apple users, networking, multimedia, security, server platforms...
[00:40] <cprofitt> the forums are a truly excellent source of information
[00:40] <cprofitt> and getting to know your fellow Ubuntu users
[00:40] <cprofitt> if you want live support you can seek people out on IRC
[00:41] <cprofitt> just like you might be right now
[00:41] <cprofitt> You can also see if there is an active Local Community Team in your area
[00:41] <cprofitt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams
[00:42] <cprofitt> Local teams may even run 'install fests' in your area to assist with the installation of your Ubuntu system
[00:42] <cprofitt> a great place to find out about activities going on with your LoCo is the LoCo Team Directory
[00:42] <cprofitt> http://loco.ubuntu.com/
[00:43] <cprofitt> just select your continent and then your specific loco
[00:43] <cprofitt> you will then have a list of activities
[00:43] <cprofitt> you can take a look at my loco for an example
[00:43] <cprofitt> http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-newyork
[00:43] <cprofitt> If there is no active Loco you could also seek out a Linux User Group
[00:45] <cprofitt> I do want to ensure that you are aware that if you seek help on the forums or in IRC that you may not get instant answers
[00:45] <cprofitt> in IRC channels many people 'idle' so they can see questions even when they are away
[00:46] <cprofitt> if you can afford to stay in the channel and wait they will reply when they are 'back' and active in the channel
[00:46] <cprofitt> for the new Ubuntu user that is unfamiliar this can be a bit 'frustrating' at times...
[00:47] <cprofitt> but trust me it is much better than going through the automated attendant phone systems you fave with proprietary vendors
[00:47] <cprofitt> in general you need to plan on making a real committment to learning the new OS, the new apps and getting past some of the learning hurdles
[00:48] <cprofitt> I promise you it will be worth it in the end
[00:48] <cprofitt> I have been able to replace every application I used in Windows for personal use
[00:48] <cprofitt> and only use Windows in a VirtualBox session at work because I manage a 7200 user Microsoft environment
[00:49] <cprofitt> there have been some questions about system specs...
[00:50] <cprofitt> I would say that if you were able to run WindwsXP SP 3, Vista or 7
[00:50] <cprofitt> you will be able to run Ubuntu
[00:50] <cprofitt> if your machine struggled to run XP SP3 and was stuck on SP2 or prior you will have to look at some of the low sys requirement alternatives
[00:51] <cprofitt> any questions as we near the hour?
[00:51] <cprofitt> if not I want to just let you know about Ubuntu One....
[00:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:51] <cprofitt> Ubuntu one is built in to Ubuntu and it allows you to synchronize your files to the 'cloud'
[00:52] <cprofitt> and it can keep them in sync with multiple computers or allow them to be shared with others
[00:52] <cprofitt> http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features#one
[00:53] <cprofitt> I would like to welcome any potential new Ubuntu users to come and ask the Ubuntu Beginners Team questions as well
[00:53] <cprofitt> we are in #ubuntu-beginners (for questions) and #ubuntu-beginners-team (get to know us)
[00:54] <cprofitt> we can also help you when you are ready to 'give back' to the community when you are ready
[00:54] <cprofitt> oops... double the when you are ready part :-)
[00:54] <cprofitt> I also, to setup the next session, want to tell you that Ubuntu is not difficult
[00:54] <cprofitt> each of my children started using Ubuntu at the age of three...
[00:55] <cprofitt> and each never got frustrated except when our ISP was down and they could not get to the Internet
[00:55] <cprofitt> they LOVE Ubuntu
[00:55] <cprofitt> and I think you will as well!!
[00:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[00:57] <cprofitt> One last recommendation -- make sure you attend classroom sessions like this...
[00:57] <cprofitt> and learn how to use IRC... as it is a great communication tool for getting help and meeting fellow Ubuntu users
[00:58] <cprofitt> Thanks everyone...
[00:59] <cprofitt> I hope the session helped you as your progress with transitioning from Windows to Ubuntu.
[01:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[01:02]  * MichelleQ steps to mic
[01:02] <MichelleQ> Hi y'all
[01:02] <mhall119> hello
[01:03] <MichelleQ> I'm MichelleQ, and mhall119 happens to be my husband and star assistant.  We're the founders of Qimo, the desktop for kids.  :-)
[01:03] <MichelleQ> And I'd like to take a few to talk about entertaining kids using linux, and perhaps educating them while we're doing so.
[01:05] <MichelleQ> There are multiple distributions available for kids, ranging from Edubuntu - which focuses more on classrooms, and Qimo - for young kids, to things like the Miley Cyrus distro, to Fluffy, which is lovely shades of pink.
[01:05] <MichelleQ> There are lots of options for kids.
[01:05] <MichelleQ> Let me address the first issue of safety, before we talk about *how* to entertain kids.
[01:06] <MichelleQ> Safety is the first and foremost requirement of a distro for kids.   Qimo is made to be stand-alone, without internet access, but there are all sorts of options for filtering.
[01:06] <MichelleQ> Dan's Guardian is perhaps the most well known.   It is a good content filter, but does require a significant amount of tinkering to set it up.
[01:07] <mhall119> http://dansguardian.org/
[01:07] <MichelleQ> SquidGuard is similar to Dan's Guardian.
[01:07] <mhall119> http://www.squidguard.org/
[01:07] <MichelleQ> OpenDNS filters DNS servers, to keep kids from visiting a website they shouldn't.
[01:07] <mhall119> both squidguard and dansguardian use an HTTP proxy that filters websites
[01:08] <MichelleQ> And then we've found KidZui, which, though it is a subscription service, is an exceptionally good internet-browser for children.
[01:08] <mhall119> OpenDNS has special DNS servers that will block blacklisted pages
[01:08] <MichelleQ> We have installed KidZui for both of our children.
[01:08] <mhall119> http://www.kidzui.com/
[01:09] <MichelleQ> KidZui has worked with us in the past, as well, giving subscriptions to kids who receive Qimo computers from our charity.
[01:10] <MichelleQ> Edubuntu has a feature called GnomeNanny, which does things like set time limits on the computer.
[01:10] <MichelleQ> Any questions on the nitty-gritty before I move onto exploding pink ponies?
[01:10] <mhall119> http://projects.gnome.org/nanny/
[01:11] <MichelleQ> OK, so, how the heck do we actually entertain kids on Linux?
[01:11] <MichelleQ> There are, of course, a whole swath of games that are well known, but there are others that deserve recognition.
[01:12] <MichelleQ> I'm going to start at the top, and work my way down, just to give an overview and age range of games.
[01:12] <MichelleQ> I'd like to start with gCompris, which I am overly fond of.
[01:12] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/gcompris
[01:13] <MichelleQ> It's a suite of games, targeting kids 3 to about 12, and while on the surface looks like it may be very elementary, it scales up with kids quite well.
[01:13] <MichelleQ> Games range in difficulty from basic, gross-motor, mouse skill games, to the intricacies of electrical engineering.
[01:14] <MichelleQ> There are multiple layers of games within the gCompris navigation system, and then, there are multiple layers of difficulty in on top of those.
[01:14] <MichelleQ> The electrical engineering game, for instance, teaches kids about circutry, switches, etc.
[01:15] <MichelleQ> It's quite astounding to come into a room to find your four year old figuring out how to wire switches, batteries, and light bulbs together to turn the bulbs on.
[01:15] <mhall119> it's actually built on top of GnuCAP, a circuit analysis library
[01:15] <mhall119> so all the voltages and everything are correct
[01:16] <MichelleQ> The second suite, of which I am quite fond, is Child's Play.  It has multiple memory-building games, but it also has a nifty pac-man style game that encourages beginning spellers.
[01:16] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/childsplay
[01:16] <MichelleQ> The games are all positive-reinforcement games, meaning that a child can't lose, per se.  It's exceptionally good for the younger set.
[01:17] <MichelleQ> Tux Paint, I'm sure, we're all familiar with, but did you know that you can add both stamps, and coloring pages, into the program?
[01:17] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxpaint
[01:17] <MichelleQ> We've added stamps of our kids' heads, which they find rather amusing.
[01:18] <MichelleQ> Qimo also comes with Qimo and Ila coloring pages.
[01:18] <MichelleQ> Tux Type and Tux Math are asteroids-style games.
[01:18] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxtype and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxmath
[01:19] <MichelleQ> Type encourages emerging keyboarding skills, and Math helps build up math skills, from addition and number recognition, to division.
[01:19] <MichelleQ> There are three very excellent space/exploration applications.
[01:20] <MichelleQ> Stellarium is a star-observation tool - kids can explore the night sky.
[01:20] <mhall119> http://www.stellarium.org/
[01:20] <MichelleQ> they can learn about the planets in the solar system, etc.
[01:21] <MichelleQ> Stellarium will be replacing KStars in Edubuntu in 11.04
[01:21] <MichelleQ> Celestia allows children to explore a simulated universe.
[01:21] <mhall119> BTW, all the games we've talked about so far are in the Ubuntu repositories
[01:21] <mhall119> http://www.shatters.net/celestia/
[01:21] <MichelleQ> And Marble is a 3-D geography application.  Allows children to explore Earth, learn about its geography
[01:22] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/marble
[01:22] <MichelleQ> Ri-li is a wooden train game, for those of you with kids obsessed, like mine, with all things train.
[01:22] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ri-li
[01:23] <MichelleQ> The purpose of the game is to clear the track for the train to run on, but it is interspersed with quizzes about things like human rights.
[01:23] <MichelleQ> Laby and KTurtle are both basic programming games.  Laby allows kids to learn rudimentary python, C, or Java, and Kturtle has a self-defined programming language.
[01:24] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/laby
[01:24] <MichelleQ> The goal of both is to code a series of instructions for a little character on screen.
[01:24] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/kturtle
[01:24] <MichelleQ> Laby has little mazes from which you have to rescue an ant.  KTurtle just allows a child to expore making a character move through programming instructions.
[01:25] <mhall119> we got our son started on Laby when he was 5, after about 20 minutes explaining the python commands, he finished the first 2 mazes by himself
[01:26] <MichelleQ> There is also Alice, which is a 3D game designed for girls.  Like Laby, and KTurtle, the purpose is to program in a series of instructions, but in Alice, the goal is to make the figure skater dance.  the intention is to get little girls interested in programming by giving them a character they can relate to.
[01:26] <MichelleQ> Additionally, there is Scratch, also a rudimentary programming game.  Quite expansive.
[01:27] <mhall119> http://scratch.mit.edu/
[01:27] <MichelleQ> Pink Ponies is a tron-esque racing game
[01:27] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What games would you recommend for a 9 year old, for example?
[01:27] <MichelleQ> Definitely any of the programming games, Tux Math or Type, and things like Tux Racer, which we'll cover in a few minutes.
[01:28] <mhall119> also gcompris, which still has enough challenging and entertaining games for a 9 year old
[01:28] <MichelleQ> Pink Ponies is quite mindless fun, the goal is to keep your pony from crossing the path of another pony.  If you don't, your pony explodes into a ball of glitter.
[01:28] <MichelleQ> very, very young-girl appealing.
[01:29] <MichelleQ> KTuberling is a delight.  Think Mr. Potato Head meets the computer.
[01:29] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ktuberling
[01:29] <MichelleQ> You can configure your potato into all sorts of fashions, place him in different environments, etc.  Little ones love it, because they love to make the potato's face look silly.
[01:30] <MichelleQ> TuxRacer is really quite fun.  The goal is to race your penguin through a course, and go as fast as you can, collecting as many fish as you can, without flinging your penguin into a ravine.
[01:30] <mhall119> it can be quite difficult too, and addictive
[01:30] <MichelleQ> then there is Bouncy The Hungry Rabbit
[01:31] <MichelleQ> it's a little game that requires problem-solving skills.  The goal is to keep your rabbit happy and fed, by stealing the farmer's crops, without getting caught by the farmer.
[01:31] <MichelleQ> It's Beatrix Potter meets Linux.
[01:31] <ClassBot> himuraken asked: Is there a way to time restrict each game?
[01:31] <mhall119> not each game, no
[01:32] <mhall119> but there are some session timers out there that will boot the user back to the login screen after a set time
[01:32] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Ever played Hannah's Horse?  Like Pacman for those that don't know and in the repos :) and aimed at kids.
[01:32] <MichelleQ> I haven't ever seen Hannah's Horse, but it is definitely one I will look into - sounds right up my daughter's alley
[01:33] <MichelleQ> Finally, I wanted to mention both SuperTux, and SuperTuxRacer.
[01:33] <MichelleQ> Think Mario, with penguins.
[01:33] <mhall119> Mario Kart that is
[01:33] <mhall119> for SuperTuxRacer
[01:33] <mhall119> 20:34 < hajour> i would say something about the games .it would be nice if there could be  choose from language you want it.my youngest have trouble with english wile  Netherlands is here native language.
[01:34] <mhall119> hajour: many of the games are translated, some will use the system's language settings, while others ignore than and provide their own way of switching
[01:34] <mhall119> some are translated upstream, others use Launchpad
[01:35] <mhall119> if you find one without support for a language you want, the best thing to do is file a bug against it in Launchpad, and the game's maintainers will forward it on to where it can be fixed
[01:35] <MichelleQ> I'm runnign way short tonight, so if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask
[01:36] <MichelleQ> There are tons of other entertainment options out there - but these handful are things that we use regularly with our children.
[01:36] <mhall119> There's a pretty complete list of the games in both Edubuntu and Qimo here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide
[01:36] <MichelleQ> And let's be honest, here, we've found ourselves spending a little too much time playing Pink Ponies.
[01:36] <mhall119> each page has a section for user feedback too, so if you use any of them please leave a little message
[01:37] <ClassBot> himuraken asked: Qimo is built on Ubuntu. What version of Ubuntu is it currently based on?
[01:37] <mhall119> Qimo 2.0 is based off Ubuntu 10.04
[01:38] <mhall119> you can also apt-get install qimo-session in 10.04 or 10.10
[01:38] <mhall119> we're planning a 3rd release to coincide with Ubuntu 11.04
[01:38] <MichelleQ> Both Qimo and Edubuntu can be added ontop of an already existing Ubuntu install
[01:38] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What do you think of Tuxpaint? I love that app especially with the extra stamps.
[01:38] <MichelleQ> Tuxpaint is brilliant, on so many different levels.
[01:39] <MichelleQ> It's very, very intuitive for kids to follow, particularly little ones without reading skills.
[01:39] <mhall119> sebsebseb: while making the installer slideshow for Qimo 2, I asked out son what he liked best about tuxpaint, he said "Everything is fun in tuxpaint"
[01:39] <mhall119> and that's pretty much the truth
[01:39] <MichelleQ> We love being able to add in our own coloring pages, too.  The kids love being able to color Qimo into bright red clothing.
[01:40] <mhall119> tuxpaint probably has the broadest appeal in terms of age, we've seen 2 year olds up to 16 year olds playing with it
[01:40] <MichelleQ> Heck, we've spent more than a little time playing with it ourselves.
[01:40] <mhall119> 20:41 < hajour> are there spoken guidings in the games?3 of my 4 children got dyslectic
[01:41] <mhall119> hajour: I don't think so
[01:41] <MichelleQ> hajour: not that I'm aware of.
[01:41] <mhall119> I've been trying to get Orca working so I can test it against some of our games
[01:41] <mhall119> but alas, I've had no luck with Orca
[01:41] <MichelleQ> gpc: definitely booth the children out of the house and off the computer.  We stress that it's not a babysitting service.
[01:41] <mhall119> a lot of what is in gCompris and childsplay doesn't require reading though, ours started using them before they could read
[01:42] <ClassBot> himuraken asked: One of my children just turned 3, is it likely too advanced for him?
[01:42] <MichelleQ> himuraken: definitely not.  mhall119's looking for something, can't remember the name of it.  It was a simple mouse-movement game.
[01:43] <MichelleQ> Gamine.
[01:43] <MichelleQ> that's it.
[01:43] <MichelleQ> It responds positively to *any* input.
[01:43] <mhall119> it's nothing but direct feedback from using the mouse
[01:43] <MichelleQ> there are very basic games in gCompris, too, that work well for a 3yo.
[01:44] <mhall119> himuraken: gcompris has a section of games specifically for that age range
[01:44] <mhall119> it'll teach them how to use the mouse and keyboard properly
[01:44] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: There's a artwork gallery on the Tuxpaint site of  users submitted art work, is any of your kids in there? Probably not.
[01:44] <MichelleQ> No, not our kids personally.
[01:44] <MichelleQ> We've actually discussed setting up an artwork gallery for Qimo on the website, though.
[01:45] <mhall119> sebsebseb: I just found http://www.tuxpaint.org/gallery/
[01:45] <ClassBot> himuraken asked: Can you give a brief history of the project?
[01:46] <MichelleQ> A brief history of Qimo?  Sure.  It started off as a simple adjustment to a desktop for my autistic son.
[01:46] <MichelleQ> And we realized that our daughter loved it, too, and so we shared the adjustment with some friends, and the mhall119 suggested we actually do it right, and make it it's own distribution.
[01:47] <mhall119> mind you, I had no idea how to make it it's own distro when I suggested that
[01:47] <MichelleQ> My brother-in-law is a graphics artist who kindly donated his talents for the art.
[01:47] <MichelleQ> and away we went.
[01:47] <ClassBot> gpc asked: How old is Qimo?
[01:47] <MichelleQ> two and a half years now
[01:48] <mhall119> Qimo 1 was released in February of 2009
[01:48] <mhall119> and based on Ubuntu 8.10
[01:48] <MichelleQ> Our son, Quinn, is almost 7.  He was four when we started on this
[01:48] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Do you know of maybe some older people who are using Tuxmath to learn Maths? I know it can be rather useful and fun for anyone who wants to learn maths.
[01:49] <MichelleQ> sebsebseb: we've actually been asked similar questions quite often, and we've been discussing formulating something strictly for older adults.
[01:50] <MichelleQ> When we have gross amounts of freetime, hopefully we'll be able to get around to turning Qimo into a distribution for elderly or dementia patients, to work on cognative skills.
[01:50] <mhall119> sebsebseb: you may also be interested in Cognitionplay, it's a variant of Childsplay designed for use with the elderly and adults with mental diseases: http://www.schoolsplay.org/
[01:50] <ClassBot> habeous asked: How far does Tuxmath go in the curriculum? Does it go to algebra?
[01:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:51] <MichelleQ> dang it, wrong room
[01:51] <mhall119>  hajour tuxmath only goes up to multiplication and division
[01:52] <mhall119> for algebra, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/kalgebra
[01:52] <MichelleQ> gpc: the easiest thing to do is email me.
[01:52] <ClassBot> hajour asked: can the games also run on light weight programs like lubuntu
[01:52] <MichelleQ> hajour: for the most part, yes
[01:52] <mhall119> yes, the games will run on any desktop environment
[01:52] <mhall119> we use Xfce for Qimo because it's a good balance between weight and features
[01:53] <ClassBot> gpc asked: is there a Qimo foundation or some way we can donate funds/hardware ?
[01:53] <MichelleQ> the easiest thing to do is email me.  since the website is down at the moment, that's the best bet.
[01:53] <MichelleQ> Once the website is back up, there's a donations page, you're welcome to visit there.
[01:54] <MichelleQ> The server apparently needs a technical tap.  :-/
[01:54] <mhall119> but if you have a computer, the best thing you can do is install Qimo or Edubuntu on it yourself and give it to a family or daycare facility that could benefit from it
[01:54] <MichelleQ> Any other questions before we go?
[01:54] <MichelleQ> Anyone, anyone?
[01:55] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Are either of school teachers for example or something like that?  A bit of a different question I know.
[01:55] <MichelleQ> Are either of us school teachers?
[01:55] <MichelleQ> No, we're not.  Mike's a programmer by trade.  I'm an at-home mom, though if I were working, I'd be teaching.
[01:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[01:56] <MichelleQ> I've spent most of the past five years concentrating strictly on teaching my own children.
[01:56] <MichelleQ> Someday I'll be back in a classroom, though.  :-)
[01:57] <MichelleQ> Any other questions, before classbot boots me?
[01:57] <mhall119> I know MichelleQ mentioned it earlier, but it's worth repeating: all of this technology is a wonderful tool to help teaching children, but it still requires parental involvement and other activities
[01:57] <MichelleQ> Absolutely.  Supervision is vitally important, and so is remembering to hit the off button.
[01:58] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What touch typing software would you recommend?
[01:58] <mhall119> sebsebseb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ktouch is the only one I'm aware of
[01:58] <mhall119> we haven't gotten to the touch typing stage yet with our kids
[01:59] <MichelleQ> Thank you so much, folks.  :-)
[01:59] <MichelleQ> Feel free to track Mike or I down, should you have any further questions.
[01:59] <mhall119> remember, you can always go to #edubuntu and #qimo channels to learn more
[02:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[02:06] <nigelb> Folks, maco will be here in a few minutes :)
[02:09] <maco> Hi!
[02:09] <maco> Sorry, I'm at a LinuxChix meetup at a teahouse and lost track of time, but now I'm online, yay
[02:10] <maco> Anyway, I'm Mackenzie, and I did a thing earlier on GNOME & KDE with pleia2 doing the Xfce side of things.  I'm a MOTU and work for a security company now
[02:10] <maco> So catching up.... I have slides from when I gave this presentation at Southeast LinuxFest and Ohio LinuxFest which you can follow along with here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maco.m/presentations/security/view/head:/OLF2010_security_myth.pdf
[02:11] <maco> So, the idea for this presentation happened after one of those conversations with my brother where I realise he thinks all bad things on the internet are covered by "virus" and with a friend who didn't know how to tell phishing by looking at a URL
[02:13] <maco> Some folks hear that "there are no viruses for linux" and assume it's a magic bullet and nothing bad can ever happen.  The first chunk of slides dispells that. There are lots of bad things that can happen!
[02:14] <maco> So, the actual word for all the bad software that hurts you is malware.
[02:15] <maco> You can flip through the vocab at your leisure. I'm going to get into the explaining
[02:15] <maco> So, first off:  there have been viruses for Linux. Wikipedia has a list of about thirty
[02:16] <maco> These were the ones that made it into the wild that are known.  They won't hurt you if you are using a current system.
[02:17] <maco> Several hundred more have existed as proof of concept (ie, "we need to patch this, and here's why") but those were not in the wild.
[02:17] <maco> However existence of past ones should be taken as a hint that more could happen in the future.
[02:18] <maco> The most recent virus I remember that affected Linux systems was a macro virus for OpenOffice.org and worked cross-platform.  That was maybe 3 years ago
[02:18] <maco> So, other than viruses, there are trojans.  I think these are what affects people in general more often and what have the best chance of getting you as a Linux user
[02:19] <maco> The  name trojan comes from trojan horse. "Hi! I'm an awesome game and you should install me!"
[02:19] <maco> ...and then you're pwned
[02:20] <maco> A little while back someone posted a "screensaver" in deb form on gnome-look.org
[02:20] <maco> Some folks installed it.  One got suspicious when no new screensavers were listed in the configuration tool.
[02:21] <maco> Turns out, it started a script which checked for a script online, downloaded, and ran it.  The person running the webserver could change that script to do whatever they want whenever they want.
[02:21] <maco> When someone controls a bunch of computers and uses them to do their bidding, that's a botnet.  This deb made a botnet.
[02:21] <maco> Thankfully it was found quickly and removed from gnome-look.org
[02:22] <maco> Now, this isn't a "omg gnome-look is evil" -- It's full of user-uploaded stuff.  The important thing to take from this is:  do not use what you do not have reason to trust
[02:22] <ClassBot> taves asked: whats linuxchix?
[02:23] <maco> This is off-topic but just in case someone sees the logs and wants to join in: see http://linuxchix.org
[02:23] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Many people think that Linux distros won't get targeted by a lot of malware unless they gain the kind of market share Mac OS X or Windows have. What do you think about that?
[02:23] <maco> I'm sure that as it becomes a more lucrative target attempts will increase.  And I also suspect that as we get complacent and gain a false sense of security, our hubris will bite us in the rear
[02:24] <maco> So, how do you know who to trust?
[02:25] <maco> (I know this is out of order of slides, oh well. This bit would be around slide 27)
[02:27] <maco> Packages uploaded to the Ubuntu archives are made by Ubuntu or Debian developers. They sign them cryptographically to prove it's coming from them. Before getting permission to upload packages, trust is established by a long while of sending patches to the other developers to demonstrate knowledge and lack of evil intent. Their application is voted on. So, there is a vetting process
[02:28] <maco> The packages you download are built on Ubuntu build servers which then sign them. Your package manager on your system checks the signature. If it doesn't match there are a couple reasons
[02:28] <maco> 1. You need to run "sudo apt-get update" because a new version has been uploaded since you last checked for updates
[02:29] <maco> 2. The package has been altered or is being pulled from an alternative not-right server (man in the middle attack)
[02:29] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: Can you secure your data any better other than using the encrypt personal folder option at install?
[02:29] <maco> That's fine protection if you just don't want anyone knowing what's there but are ok with them knowing that *something* is there
[02:30] <maco> There's a field related to encryption called stegonagraphy that's about making it so you can't tell something's there.  Truecrypt lets you have hidden *and* encrypted partitions
[02:30] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: If known bugs in the kernel can be fixed then regressed / rolled back and allow expliots with root privileges - do the ubuntu team track these bad and patch the kernel to fix these for just us ubuntu users?
[02:31] <maco> Yes, the Ubuntu Security Team keeps track of CVEs (I forget what it stands for. V = Vulnerability) and prepares fixes for such regressions. Which are fixed first depends on how bad they are.  A local exploit isn't nearly as worrisome as a remote one, for example
[02:32] <maco> If you are aware of a security bug, you can report it in Launchpad and mark it to be a security issue. This will make the bug private and viewable only by the security team so that not-nice people can't learn how to break things by poking around there
[02:32] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: Is it much safer not to install devel PPAs?
[02:33] <maco> I'd say it depends who is running the PPA. Is it upstream developers? Well, you trust the code anyway...   Is it an Ubuntu developer?  Well you trust the rest of their packages anyway... Is it a random person on the internet?  Uhhhh.....
[02:33] <maco> You can find this out by clicking on their name and looking at all the little icons listed on their page.  If they're in ~ubuntu-dev, they're an Ubuntu developer.  If the project is hosted on Launchpad, you can see from their Code page whether they're actually working directly on it
 CVE = Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures     <--- thank you
[02:34] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What would your description be of a secure password?
[02:35] <maco> Long and complicated!  Personally, I take sentences, titles, lines of poetry or lyrics.... things with lots of words.. and either mash the words together (if it's like 3-4 words) or take the first letter of each and throw in some punctuation and ch4ng3 l3tt3r5 ... ok too hard to type that way... change letters to numbers
[02:35] <maco> It makes them easier to remember
[02:36] <maco> You can write them down if you want. I know, "but what if someone reads it?"  Look, if someone has already broken into your house and so able to snoop around post-its under your keyboard...you've got bigger problems
[02:36] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: Is Tor the best method for securing network & your anonymity online?
[02:37] <maco> It was really interesting to learn that there are governments using Tor as their sole source of internet protection.  That is, without encryption.  I learned this from someone who ran a Tor node and snooped
[02:38] <maco> For anonymity, yes, go for it. But still use basic protections like https.  SSL may be somewhat broken, but it's better than nothing and at least makes them have to put in effort
[02:38] <ClassBot> LeGambitteur asked: What about hacking passwords using cloud ?
[02:39] <maco> Spinning up many many cloud instances to crack passwords in parallel in a few hours makes things a lot cheaper than buying massive amounts of hardware.  This does change the playing field a bit. IMO, it makes it more important that you don't use 123456 as your password
[02:41] <maco> Oh, so something new that happened in the DEs a little bit ago (a year or so) is that now you can't run .desktop launchers from inside /home unless they are marked as executable
[02:41] <maco> This is because it is conceivable that you get a "hot pix!!!!1!!" email with a .desktop file that runs "rm -rf *"  (DO NOT RUN. YOU WILL LOSE ALL DATA) and that would be BAD
[02:42] <maco> So this way you have to take another step other than "click the thingy in my email that gives me hot pix"
[02:42] <maco> I really like that in KDE it shows you the command that will be run so you can make an informed decision
[02:42] <maco> (see slides 30-31)
[02:42] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Maybe not so much on topic, but how do you think educational establishments can teach computer security better? Since most say about antivirus if anything and that's about it.
[02:43] <maco> Oh they could do a lot better. I was very disappointed to find that my computer security professor was learning things for the first time as he read the slides (which he got from the previous professor) to the class.
[02:43] <maco> Like this:  *reading* "huh!"
[02:44] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: Does Ubuntu have built in exploits for government dept use - NSA / CIA whatever?
[02:44] <maco> I work for neither of those agencies, and if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to answer that
[02:44] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: Is security excellent on a distro that is only read-only live-cd / dvd based?
[02:45] <maco> While nothing can persist beyond reboot (unless you get a BIOS virus...), you could still end up with something affecting you just for that run.  But if you intend to attend DEFCON or Black Hat, running from a live cd and not typing in your valuable passwords would be a good plan
[02:46] <maco> Oh here's something important since everything lives in the web browser now
[02:46] <maco> Browsers like Firefox are cross platform.  They are a big target.
[02:46] <maco> Cross-site scripting tends to work regardless of the OS or browser. It's a matter of bad coding on the website. You are still vulnerable.
[02:47] <maco> If you want to be paranoid, install No Script to at least limit what Javascript can run.  I don't expect you to know what domains to trust. The important thing is that it alerts on cross site scripting attacks
[02:47] <maco> Cross site scripting is when one site steals data from another, basically
[02:47] <maco> The other valuable thing NoScript does is alert on click jacking
[02:47] <maco> That's when there's an invisible button covering a chunk of the page so when you go to click on something good, you click on something bad
[02:48] <ClassBot> txomon asked: what about firesheep and those?
[02:48] <maco> Oh good a segue for HTTPS/SSL!
[02:48] <maco> You've probably hear to look for the lock and everything is good
[02:49] <maco> The lock means your connection to the site is encrypted.  Firesheep lets anyone on the network manipulate the sites you are on and eavesdrop if you do not use SSL
[02:49] <maco> Please set your GMail to force SSL in the settings
[02:49] <maco> Please pester websites which default to insecure. Facebook finally took the hint and is adding SSL
[02:49] <maco> (Note to self: pester dreamwidth)
[02:50] <maco> The lock is NOT a magic bullet either though!
[02:50] <maco> You can have an SSL connection to the wrong site
[02:50] <maco> If you see http://mybank.com.iamnotevil.hax.info
[02:50] <maco> You should read all the way to the end
[02:50] <maco> Maybe that's   http://mybank.com.iamnotevil.hax.info/blahblah.asp
[02:50] <maco> You should read to the slash before blahblah
[02:51] <maco> These are not the same as mybank.com  I was surprised to learn a friend did not know this
[02:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[02:51] <maco> If you are at such a site, you could become a phishing victim
[02:51] <maco> Banks in the US at least now use Extended Validation certificates (EV)
[02:52] <maco> These validate not just that the domain name & its encryption key go together, but that the domain name and who you think it is go together
[02:52] <maco> Take a look at http://paypal.com in Firefox
[02:52] <maco> There's a green bar.  You click, and it tells you what the legal entity is that owns this website and who verified it.  Financial institutions should tend to have these.
[02:53] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: In your opinion / experience, which browser do you feel is safest / the most secure?
[02:53] <maco> One with Javascript turned off? lynx?  I don't know.  On the one hand, Firefox has lots of eyeballs looking at it. On the other, it's a huge target.
[02:53] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: When do you think security updates should be installed into Ubuntu or other distros?  I mean a few weeks not up to date at the moment, and probably still going to be ok right?
[02:54] <maco> I'd at least check in update manager to see what it says the thing is fixing
[02:54] <maco> And check Ubuntu's security page
[02:54] <maco> http://security.ubuntu.com I think
[02:54] <maco> If it's a remote exploit, I'd install pretty quickly. If not, then a few weeks...if you're not in a financial or governmental institution...meh sure
[02:54] <ClassBot> taves asked: i have a router do i need a firewall?
[02:55] <maco> Most consumer routers have firewalls built in.  In the enterprise these are normally separate pieces of hardware.
[02:55] <maco> Keep in mind you don't really need to configure your firewall (using iptables or ufw) unless you have services running
[02:55] <maco> Ubuntu has none by default
 There's also a mailing list for security update announcements: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-security-announce
[02:56] <ClassBot> palhmbs asked: What things can we learn from Sourceforge getting hit and are we likely to see a huge increase in cyber-warfare attacks in the future?
[02:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[02:56] <maco> That you shouldn't use the same password everywhere. Same lesson we learned from Gawker.
[02:56] <maco> Password managers are your friend
[02:57] <ClassBot> txomon asked: about linux passwords security... the password is just generated from the passphrase or it is a combination of passphrase and system variables? and how can we protect a system from phisical accesS?
[02:57] <maco> Your password is your password, period.
[02:57] <maco> Or do you mean your home dir encryption from ecryptfs? If that, then it's that the key is encrypted using your password
[02:57] <maco> (Also the case with your ssh & encryption keys)
[02:57] <ClassBot> taves asked: what is this keyring popping up in ubuntu?
[02:58] <maco> Keyring stores passwords for you. It is encrypted with a password. By default this is the same as your login password so it is automatically unlocked by you logging in
[02:58] <maco> If you use autologin, it can't unlock automatically and you have to type it in
[02:58] <maco> You could change it to empty password and it would not ask, but the passwords would be stored on disk in the clear
[02:59] <maco> Ok, time's up I think
[02:59] <jcastro> \o/
[02:59] <jcastro> Nice job maco!
[03:00] <maco> Thanks jcastro. Good luck with yours :)
[03:00] <jcastro> Ok, I'm going to give it another minute or so, since DBO isn't around yet.
[03:00] <jcastro> In the meantime feel free to familiarize yourself with Unity:
[03:00] <jcastro> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
[03:01] <jcastro> and you can see other Unity questions people have been asking us over the past 4 months: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/unity?sort=votes&pagesize=50
[03:01] <jcastro> I'll give it another minute and then I'll start to take questions, so smoke if you got em!
[03:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[03:02] <jcastro> Hi DBO!
[03:02] <DBO> howdy
[03:02] <jcastro> we're just going to give it another minute before we begin
[03:02] <DBO> awesome
[03:02] <jcastro> I gave people some links to familiarize themselves with Unity
[03:02] <jcastro> and a link to the Unity tag
[03:03] <jcastro> So for this hour we're going to do questions about Unity, and we have Jason Smith (DBO) here to answer your technical questions
[03:03] <jcastro> then the last hour you can ask me about anything coming up in 11.04 in general
[03:03] <jcastro> DBO: Ok let's start, introduce yourself!
[03:04] <DBO> my name is Jason Smith, I am a developer on the Unity project
[03:04] <DBO> I have worked largely on BAMF and the launcher aspects of unity
[03:04] <DBO> however I have a good high level view of all parts of the project
[03:04] <jcastro> What other projects have you worked on?
[03:05] <DBO> panel, nux (the toolkit behind unity), compiz, mutter when we were using that, and quicklists
[03:05] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: can we still use the 2-panel Gnome layout?  I've heard that the global menu changes have broken it
[03:06] <jcastro> I can field that one
[03:06] <jcastro> yes, the GNOME 2.x desktop is actually our 2D fallback for 11.04
[03:06] <jcastro> in GDM there's a "Classic GNOME" session that you can select to get the same desktop you have today
[03:07] <DBO> to answer the other half of the question
[03:07] <jcastro> DBO: and I believe we're doing something with detecting wether the driver can support unity or not and making a smart choice about that?
[03:07] <DBO> I am not aware of any conception break in the global menu for gnome 2.0
[03:07] <DBO> however if there is one, we will fix it before release
[03:08] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: What is Canonical doing to help other distro's include Unity in their repo's? if anything?
[03:08] <DBO> i got this one :)
[03:08] <DBO> we are getting interest from several packagers involved with other distros
[03:09] <DBO> I know fedora and suse have shown interest recently
[03:09] <DBO> we communicate with them and help answer packaging questions
[03:09] <DBO> in a couple cases we have helped them either build unity without upstream patches or helped remove patches altogether
[03:10] <DBO> next :)
[03:10] <ClassBot> habeous asked: Is Unity going to completely replace GNOME? OR will they be shipped together?
[03:10] <DBO> got it
[03:11] <DBO> Unity is not a replacement of GNOME at all
[03:11] <DBO> GNOME is collection of applications and frameworks
[03:11] <DBO> among those things is a window manager and a "shell" (panel)
[03:11] <DBO> in Ubuntu we have not been defaulting to the GNOME window manager for some time, opting for Compiz instead
[03:12] <DBO> The only real change here is we will now also be replacing the GNOME Panel
[03:12] <DBO> everything else remains the same, GTK, EDS, menu framework
[03:12] <DBO> its all still GNOME :) just a new shell
[03:12] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Why exactly was it decided to go with Unity for 11.04 desktop as well as netbook, instead of going with Gnome Shell by default?
[03:13] <jcastro> This one is best answered by this article:
[03:14] <jcastro> in which Mark is interviewed and explains on why we chose to go with Unity for 11.04: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/10/shuttleworth-unity-shell-will-be-default-desktop-in-ubuntu-1104.ars
[03:14] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: Is there any sharing going on with the GNOME Shell developers in terms of usability testing?
[03:15] <DBO> none that I know of but I know both the design team and the DX team look at what GNOME Shell does, both good and bad. We also publish our findings, so I figure they must do the same.
[03:16] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: What are the plans in regards to Unity post Natty Narwhal?
[03:16] <jcastro> ooh, good question
[03:16] <jcastro> tell us something cool DBO
[03:17] <DBO> Well from a developer standpoint this question is a bit tricky because its hard to tell sometimes when a feature will land, however!
[03:17] <DBO> Post natty we will see better web integration inside of unity
[03:18] <DBO> as well as standard design iterations and maintenance tasks
[03:18] <jcastro> UDS is coming up in May, we'll have a better idea then -- we're not quiet about things we plan at UDS, so I guess stay tuned.
[03:18] <ClassBot> jmarsden asked: Are there perceived performance issues with Unity compared to "Classic GNOME" -- put another way, is there a minimum hardware recommendation (CPU? RAM? video card?) for using Unity without being annoyed by it seeming slow?
[03:19] <DBO> the Dell Mini 9 is our target bottom end machine for an optimal performance
[03:19] <DBO> currently we feel we are hitting that
[03:20]  * jcastro pops in with a subquestion: Does unity add any hardware requirements on top of normal compiz?
[03:20] <jcastro> If I was running compiz fine before will I have problems I mean
[03:20] <DBO> Frame buffer objects are the only additional requirement
[03:20] <DBO> most video cards made after 1998 or so support this
[03:21] <DBO> so yeah, if you can run compiz, you should be able to run Unity
[03:21] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: I want to get involved with Unity development, but I'm not a C/C++ developer, what are my options?
[03:21] <DBO> well we have some projects that are in Vala, which might be even more obscure for you
[03:21] <jcastro> well, we could always use help triaging  bugs
[03:21] <DBO> oh yeah, that too!
[03:22] <jcastro> also, by merely building and testing unity you can help report bugs
[03:22] <jcastro> either by running natty or running a daily build on top of natty
[03:22] <DBO> some of the best contributors to the project are guys who build trunk, report bugs and get us awesome stack traces
[03:22] <jcastro> and since now Unity can run in Virtualbox 4.0 that's an easy way to get started
[03:23] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/InstallationGuideFromSource
[03:23] <DBO> those who test our patches... we cant help but love that :)
[03:23] <jcastro> ^ here are the instructions on how to build unity from source
[03:23] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/~unity/+archive/daily
[03:23] <jcastro> or you can fire up some of those daily builds if you are crazy
[03:24] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: Will the full screen dash and application menu make an appearance on netbooks again? Will there be any distinguishing between Desktop and Netbook in Unity?
[03:24] <DBO> the only difference between netbook and desktop unity is the default options
[03:24] <DBO> otherwise they are the exact same code
[03:25] <DBO> the full screen dash will be back however (as an option in some form)
[03:25] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: follow-up, anything for a Python developer to do?
[03:26] <DBO> you can make plugins as places using python
[03:26] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.org/Unity/Places
[03:26] <jcastro> places aren't ready yet, expect me to make a bunch of noise about places after Alpha 2
[03:26] <jcastro> you'll be able to make your own Dash things we call Places
[03:26] <DBO> it is worth noting the API for places wont change between maverick and natty
[03:27] <jcastro> there will be tons of places you could make, they'll be similar to things like Firefox search extension things, except system wide and they'll be able to talk to zeitgeist
[03:27] <jcastro> so you can do "super key" + "batman" and the imdb place would return movies into the dash, etc.
[03:28] <jcastro> but we'll need people like you to make them!
[03:28] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: Have any of the developers of other distros contributed any Unity code yet? Or is it still mainly Canonical and the Ubuntu Community making it?
[03:28] <DBO> I dont know if we have had code contributions yet from other distro developers
[03:29] <jcastro> I don't think so, but I could be wrong
[03:29] <ClassBot> Omega asked: Are there any plans for a merge between Unity-2D and Unity-3D? What is the relationship between the two?
[03:29] <DBO> I know a fedora guy found some missing header licenses for us
[03:29] <DBO> No :) The 2D version is simply a 2D realization of the 3D version
[03:30] <DBO> its simply designed to be identical to the 3D version minus 3D :)
[03:30] <jcastro> (You can find the 2d version here: https://launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/+archive/unity-2d-daily)
[03:30] <jcastro> it's pretty nice for older laptops, I have this old junky laptop with a crap graphics card and 2d unity runs great on it
[03:31] <ClassBot> charlie-tca asked: Is there a list of keyboard shortcuts used in Unity?
[03:31] <DBO> evil answer: currently no
[03:32] <DBO> less-evil answer: you can look in ccsm
[03:32] <DBO> better answer: we need to make a wiki page :)
[03:32] <jcastro> right now the super key invokes the launcher
[03:32] <jcastro> and you guys are bringing back the super-1, super-2, etc shortcuts right?
[03:32] <DBO> yes
[03:33] <jcastro> mhall119: making a wiki page of the shortcut keys would be a good place for a non-C++ programmer to start ... :)
[03:33] <jcastro> I'll start on a page on Monday I think, this would be quite useful
[03:33] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: What's happening with the proposed unity people's place?
[03:34] <DBO> I think Seif Lofty has written the code for this already
[03:34] <jcastro> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/unity-ppl.png
[03:34] <DBO> ideally this will be packaged and placed in Universe repositories
[03:34] <jcastro> yep, he's been working on that
[03:35] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: What's the status of accessibility in Unity?
[03:35] <jcastro> Pendulum: want to field that one? I am totally in the dark on a11y
[03:35] <Pendulum> The current status is "it's being worked on"
[03:36] <Pendulum> They're hoping to get the initial bits of the framework into alpha2, but I'm not sure if it'll happen or not
[03:36] <jcastro> ok, thanks
[03:36] <Pendulum> I do believe, however, (and charlie-tca can correct me in chat if I'm wrong about this) that the accessible installer works, but that's about it
[03:36] <Pendulum> otherwise we need the documentation on keyboard control ;)
[03:36] <jcastro> DBO: while we wait for more questions can you fill us in on what we can expect in the launcher over the next coming weeks?
[03:37] <jcastro> Pendulum: I'll get on a wiki page on monday, that shouldn't been too hard to set up
[03:37] <DBO> Drag and Drop support is the biggest work item coming soom
[03:37] <DBO> we are also getting some edge scrolling effects, and quite a few stability fixes
[03:37] <jcastro> drag and drop like applications and stuff into the launcher?
[03:37] <DBO> correct
[03:38] <jcastro> how about folders and whatnot? or things like my favorite document I am working on or something?
[03:38] <DBO> so you could say drag a file onto the launcher and launch an application with that file as an argument
[03:38] <jcastro> finally. :)
[03:38] <DBO> Im not sure if we are going to allow storing files on the launcher itself yet
[03:38] <DBO> I hope so... but I have my doubts :P
[03:38] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: What's multimonitor support like in unity? Does the top panel extend across both monitors? Is it one virtual desktop per monitor?
[03:39] <jcastro> I can field this one as I use unity in twinview
[03:39] <jcastro> right now there are 2 annoying issues, first is the top panel still isn't multimonitor aware, so it streches across
[03:39] <jcastro> though neil tells me he's working on that
[03:40] <jcastro> and the second is if one monitor is larger than the other the launcher gets confused, but alex launi (our QA/testing dude for Unity) has a grasp on that one
[03:40] <jcastro> the multiple workspaces are just like how they used to be pre-unity
[03:40] <jcastro> that is when I move around both panels switch to a new workspace
[03:40] <jcastro> maybe someday we'll get independant workspaces per panel (that would be sweet)
[03:41] <DBO> dream big
[03:41] <DBO> :P
[03:41] <jcastro> so what else are you guys going to put in the dash?
[03:42] <jcastro> I see the search field there but it's not working right now
[03:42] <jcastro> can you explain a bit how search will work?
[03:42] <DBO> search is a "live search"
[03:42] <DBO> so as you type, the results will update
[03:42] <DBO> there is a really cool cross fade blur animation planed for that, I dont envy the GL programmers job for that...
[03:43] <jcastro> how many GL programmers on the team?
[03:43] <DBO> results will be organized in much the same way they are in the maverick version
[03:43] <DBO> 3 GL gurus, 2 more GL competent
[03:43] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: Are you going to reduce the Icon to tile ratio to make it like Maverick Unity? ( I think it looks cleaner with more spacing)
[03:44] <DBO> Nope :)
[03:44] <jcastro> can you explain what he means?
[03:44] <DBO> yeah
[03:44] <jcastro> he means the size of the icons inside the little tile things right?
[03:44] <DBO> so there are two parts of the tile
[03:44] <DBO> there is a "tile" and an "icon" part
[03:45] <DBO> the tile part in maverick is 48x48 and the icon is 32x32
[03:45] <DBO> in natty the tile is 52x52 and the icon is 48x48
[03:46] <ClassBot> Omega asked: Will Ubuntu Light still be powered by Unity? Can you tell us a little more about that?
[03:46] <DBO> Ubuntu Light isn't really part of my pervu, but as far as I know it will remain unity based
[03:46] <DBO> thats all I really know :/
[03:47] <jcastro> me either, but  basically Ubuntu Light = Unity + Normal Ubuntu customized for specific hardware
[03:47] <jcastro> DBO: I hear we support icon sets in the launcher now
[03:47] <DBO> yeah we more or less follow whatever the selection icon set is
[03:47] <jcastro> so people can make all sorts of crazy icon sets for the thing right?
[03:48] <DBO> yeah I guess they could
[03:48]  * DBO fears the results
[03:48] <jcastro> (about 10 minutes left for questions folks, keep them coming)
[03:49] <ClassBot> Omega asked: Some people have been making Unity mockups, have you guys taken a look at those? link: http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/01/4-beautiful-ubuntu-unity-ui.html
[03:49] <DBO> I can say with 100% certainty the whole team looks at them, sometimes we oggle, sometimes we giggle
[03:49] <DBO> I love that the community is making mockups
[03:49] <DBO> you guys come up with some great ideas
[03:50] <jcastro> those mockups remind me of a question
[03:50] <jcastro> for 11.04 will we be able to switch to a light theme like Radiance?
[03:50] <DBO> probably not
[03:51] <DBO> if not in 11.04, for sure in 11.10
[03:51] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: Why is the menubar hidden without mouseover?
[03:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[03:51] <jcastro> DBO: your favorite question!
[03:51] <DBO> I wont lie to you
[03:52] <DBO> I have absolutely no idea, I dont like it myself
[03:52] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/q/22486/235
[03:52] <DBO> im not really a designer however
[03:52] <jcastro> Mark answers that specific question himself ^
[03:52] <DBO> awesome
[03:52] <jcastro> now you don't have to. :)
[03:52] <DBO> whew, close call
[03:53] <jcastro> We have time for  like 2-3 more questions
[03:53] <DBO> is there a session with Otto or John Lea?
[03:53] <jcastro> nope
[03:53] <DBO> sweet
[03:53] <ClassBot> Sashin asked: What significant changes will come to the unity interface by final release?
[03:54] <DBO> The dash will undergo major visual changes (as well as become functional)
[03:54] <DBO> it currently does not reflect our design goals
[03:54] <jcastro> And we'll have places
[03:54] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.org/Unity/Places/Ideas
[03:54] <jcastro> here are some ideas for places we have ^
[03:55] <DBO> the BFB will also have some design changes
[03:55] <jcastro> what's the bfb?
[03:55] <DBO> the Big Friendly Button
[03:56] <jcastro> the button with the ubuntu logo you mean?
[03:56] <jcastro> what kind of changes?
[03:56] <DBO> yeah that one :)
[03:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[03:56] <DBO> when the dash is open it will have a visual appearance similar to it being integrated with the launcher
[03:56] <DBO> its cool looking
[03:56] <jcastro> i don't suppose you have a teaser screenshot?
[03:56] <DBO> I do not :)
[03:56] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Places/Ideas  <-- correct URL from before, sorry
[03:57] <jcastro> ok welll, thanks Jason for joining us
[03:57] <jcastro> we'll take a short break
[03:57] <DBO> sure :)
[03:57] <jcastro> and then you guys can Q+A me on the rest of 11.04 for another hour
[03:57] <jcastro> cheers!
[03:57] <jcastro>  Bitesize Bugs you can help with: http://goo.gl/i1WA1 and http://goo.gl/tiheb
[03:57] <jcastro> ^^ For those of you who want to dive in and help with Unity!
[04:01] <jcastro> ok, taking a quick break to go to the bathroom, chill out for a few, mingle amonst yourselves, and then we'll begin!
[04:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[04:05] <jcastro> ok
[04:05] <jcastro> we'll run this one unmoderated and less formal
[04:05] <jcastro> so we can go deeper into discussions and Q+A without worrying about the bot
[04:05] <jcastro> I'm Jorge Castro and I'll be your host!
[04:05] <jcastro> So for this session basically I'd like to answer your questions about what's going on around Ubuntu for 11.04
[04:06] <jcastro> so we can really have this session be whatever you guys want to ask questions about
[04:06] <jcastro> wether it's new features coming in 11.04
[04:06] <jcastro> or specific questions about the distro in general
[04:07] <Sashin> So, what are the plans in regard to the software centre changes, have we seen them all (ratings and reviews) or is there more to come? (interface changes, new icon, features etc)
[04:07] <mhall119> is there any chance of the server-side of Ubuntu One being opened?
[04:07] <jcastro> ok so let's start off with the software center
[04:07] <jcastro> In case you didn't know, they uploaded a new USC this week that let's people rate and review software
[04:08] <jcastro> you can rate things from 1-5 stars, and leave comments
[04:08] <jcastro> I asked mvo (one of the developers) if this was going to be backported to 10.10
[04:08] <jcastro> and he tells me that they're still looking at doing that, depending on how complicated it is to backport what they need
[04:09] <jcastro> as far as the look and feel and icon and all that, 24 March is the userinterface and beta freeze
[04:09] <jcastro> so I expect any changes would have to land by then. I am not sure what the design team is cooking up for USC though
[04:09] <jcastro> (I wonder if the yellow color for the comments is on purpose for example)
[04:10] <jcastro> mhall119: No change in that policy as far as I know
[04:10] <mhall119> is there an Ubuntu One webservice API?
[04:10] <jcastro> you're in luck
[04:10] <mhall119> or any way to integrate webapps with a user's U1 data
[04:10] <jcastro> "soon" is what they tell me
[04:11] <mhall119> yay!
[04:11]  * jcastro searches for a sec
[04:12] <jcastro> can't find anything
[04:12] <jcastro> but last I heard there will be a full API and SDK and all that jazz
[04:12] <mhall119> it's okay, I know where to find you for updates
[04:12] <mhall119> I also know where to find U1 devs
[04:13] <jcastro> so another thing coming for 11.04 will be the 2.6.38 kernel
[04:13] <jcastro> which is starting to land in natty itself right now
[04:13] <jcastro> this does include the "200 line magic patch" thing everyone was talking about
[04:14] <Habeouscorpus> wow, that alone makes it worth the upgrade
[04:14] <jcastro> there are also 2 new programs in the default install
[04:14] <jcastro> the first one is the switch from openoffice.org to LibreOffice
[04:14] <jcastro> which has already been uploaded this past week
[04:14] <jcastro> and the second is that Banshee is now the default music player
[04:15] <jcastro> (feel free to jump in with any questions at any time)
[04:15] <Habeouscorpus> does libre office still support all that open office does?
[04:15] <jcastro> yep
[04:15] <jcastro> and more
[04:15] <Sashin> Anything else apart from unity planned as a part of the Ayatana initiative landing in Natty?
[04:16] <jcastro> in fact libreoffice derives from "go-ooo", which was a patchset of improvements to openoffice
[04:16] <gpc> What does the future hold for the "classic desktop" in Ubuntu?
[04:16] <jcastro> so for ubuntu users it's just a continuation of improvements from the past
[04:16] <jcastro> Sashin: good question
[04:16] <jcastro> suport for the global menu in Firefox and Thunderbird will land
[04:17] <jcastro> as far as the classic desktop
[04:17] <jcastro> I suspect it won't be going anywhere for a while
[04:18] <sebsebseb> Why is Banshee default?
[04:18] <Pendulum> so it should still be an option when Unity 2D starts to really be pushed (which I'm under the impression will happen in O-cycle)
[04:18] <jcastro> Sashin: as far as the rest of ayatana, this cycle is mostly maintenance, so instead of improvements to them we'll see more work being done on apps, etc.
[04:18] <Sashin> Any planned changed to the installer ubiquity?
[04:18] <gpc> jcastro: I would hope until at least 12.04
[04:18] <Sashin> ah I see
[04:19] <jcastro> Banshee by default mostly because of it's healthy improvement upstream
[04:19] <sebsebseb> yeah Unity 2D probably the default fallback option for 11.10?
[04:19] <jcastro> I have more detail on why Banshee here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10911/why-is-banshee-becoming-the-default/10963#10963
[04:20] <jcastro> Sashin: on the installer front mostly all bug fixing
[04:20] <jcastro> 10.10 was the big one featurewise for the installer
[04:20] <jcastro> in 10.10 they made it so it installed in the background while you answered the questions
[04:20] <jcastro> which really makes for a fast install
[04:21] <jcastro> I suspect our decision to use Unity 2D in the future as a fallback will depend on how long GNOME 2.x is maintained upstream
[04:21] <jcastro> but as with anything, we make those decisions at UDS, and it's much to early to determine something like that
[04:21] <jcastro> especially when Unity 2D isn't finished yet, and GNOME 2.x is very mature code that's been rocking for us for going on 6 years.
[04:21] <Sashin> Isn't unity going to be a shell over gnome 3?
[04:22] <jcastro> yes
[04:22] <sebsebseb> Maybe the encrypted home should be in an advanced option or something?  I remember people in #ubuntu with issues after re installs or whatever it was, because they had used encryption
[04:22] <jcastro> yeah, that'd be a nice wishlist bug
[04:22] <sebsebseb> was that at me?
[04:22] <jcastro> yes
[04:22] <sebsebseb> ok :)
[04:22] <jcastro> on the server side there are some cool improvements
[04:22] <jcastro> this release will mark the debut of cobbler in ubuntu
[04:22] <sebsebseb> What's cobbler?
[04:23] <jcastro> cobbler is a deployment server from the guys at Red Hat
[04:23] <jcastro> basically you have a server
[04:23] <jcastro> and you tell it "I want ubuntu desktop 10.10, server 10.04, and these other isos"
[04:23] <jcastro> it then imports them
[04:23] <jcastro> and then you just start net booting machines and installing it
[04:24] <jcastro> it's like an out of the box PXE installer with management features
[04:24] <jcastro> http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/Blogs/Amber-Graner-You-in-Ubuntu/Chuck-Short-Discusses-Cobbler-On-Ubuntu
[04:24] <jcastro> http://zulcss.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/using-cobbler-on-ubuntu/
[04:24] <gpc> ohh, that sounds nice
[04:24] <sebsebseb> oh ok so cobbler for more than one distro?  So they can be installed eaiser on a server?
[04:24] <jcastro> https://fedorahosted.org/cobbler/
[04:24] <jcastro> basically, most sysadmins set up their own kickstart server anyway
[04:25] <jcastro> this one just comes out of the box
[04:25] <jcastro> something else in the tasksel, like we do for LAMP, DNS, etc.
[04:25] <jcastro> you just check the box and voila!
[04:26] <jcastro> hmm, let's see what else
[04:26] <LeGambitteur> what about the web browser ? will Minefield be ready ?
[04:26] <jcastro> yep, it'll be firefox 4
[04:26] <jcastro> which is already in natty
[04:26] <jcastro> (with the global menu as I said earlier)
[04:26] <jcastro> oh, here's one
[04:26] <jcastro> we finally fixed the resizing of windows
[04:27] <jcastro> so instead of that stupid 1 pixel target, you'll be able to basically grab any part of the "shadow" around a window to resize it
[04:27] <jcastro> and on top of that there will be a little grippie on the bottom right corner of every window
[04:27] <jcastro> (it's about time we fixed that bug, it was horrible)
[04:27] <sebsebseb> Unity 2D probably by default for well versions of Ubuntu after 11.04 right?  Gnome 2 is on the verge of dieing after all.  Also I think I read that for Ubuntu to do Gnome 3,  would need to do the whole thing so no Gnome 2 fall back option. Which is planned for 11.10?
[04:28] <jcastro> like I said before it's much to early to tell
[04:28] <jcastro> at this point in the cycle all we're thinking about is 11.04
[04:28] <jcastro> it's not until UDS where we start to think about 11.10
[04:28] <jcastro> so, ask me in May. :)
[04:29] <Pendulum> sebsebseb: if you have a strong opinion either way, you might want to consider attending UDS either in person or remotely :)
[04:29] <Sashin> Gnome shell will still be in the repos?
[04:29] <jcastro> we had to move gnome shell to a PPA
[04:29] <jcastro> for a number of reasons
[04:29] <sebsebseb> Pendulum: I did attend some sessions for not the last UDS, but the one before, remotely
[04:29] <jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-January/002740.html
[04:30] <jcastro> here's the full summary
[04:30] <jcastro> but basically, since we're using GNOME 2.x as the fallback
[04:30] <jcastro> we can't ship parts of GNOME 3 on the disc
[04:30] <jcastro> so we're moving -shell and other parts onto a PPA
[04:30] <sebsebseb> jcastro: yeah bingo, that's the one I read
[04:31] <jcastro> that will let anyone work on -shell for ubuntu, since they don't have to have permissions to do that in the archive
[04:31] <sebsebseb> yep and the PPA can be updated after the 11.04 release as well and all that
[04:31] <jcastro> and this way too they don't have to worry about freezes, etc. in the distro
[04:31] <jcastro> so they'll be able to keep putting in fresh snapshots in the PPA while the rest of the distro freezes
[04:31] <Sashin> makes sense
[04:31] <jcastro> if we kept it in the archive by the time we released it would be old
[04:31] <jcastro> anyone is more than welcome to join that team
[04:32] <jcastro> it has ricotz and some of the other people who have been running gnome 3 ppa's
[04:32] <jcastro> https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team
[04:32] <sebsebseb> yes it will be interesting to see how distros deal with Gnome 3 :)
[04:32] <Sashin> ohh, I have that installed but it doesn't have the new interface...
[04:32] <jcastro> it's just the way that the archive is organized it makes more sense to kick fast moving projects out of the distro and then bring it back in
[04:32] <Sashin> still has the old gnome 3.
[04:32] <jcastro> right
[04:33] <sebsebseb> I think the way Ubuntu are doing it for 11.04 makes sense though,  even though I wasn't that sure when I first read it was going to a ppa
[04:33] <jcastro> we have feature freeze coming up in about a month
[04:33] <jcastro> if -shell was in the archive then effectively whatever -shell was in the archive at that time would be what we would release
[04:33] <jcastro> this way you can just run natty + the ppa and run the freshest shell
[04:34] <jcastro> hmm, lets see, what else
[04:34] <Sashin> Is there any more desktop integration with internet planned?
[04:34] <sebsebseb> jcastro: yeah and maybe a bit easier then doing it the current Gnome 3 site way, but at the moment, I haven't tried either,  for the later Gnome Shell's
[04:34] <jcastro> oh, dunno if you guys saw but network manager is now a proper indicator
[04:34] <Sashin> (like gwibber ubuntu one, etc)
[04:34] <jcastro> so no more old icons in the "tray"
[04:35] <Sashin> that'll make things alot smoother.
[04:35] <jcastro> oh, let me see if ken's around for gwibber
[04:35] <gpc> cyphermox has been working hard on n-m
[04:36] <stefano-palazzo_> This may be a bit technical. Will this 200-line kernel patch business be disabled by default on the server?
[04:36] <days_of_ruin> Must you change your name constantly?
[04:36] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo_: we don't ship the patch, we ship what's in 2.6.38, which iirc has whatever linus approved
[04:36] <jcastro> I don't expect it will suck on servers
[04:36] <gpc> !nickspam > akash
[04:36] <ubot2> akash, please see my private message
[04:37] <Sashin> it would be cool if we could right click a picture and upload it to flickr or tinypic or something...
[04:37] <jcastro> ken tells me that the improvements for gwibber this cycle are error handling and stability, and not much else.
[04:37] <ikt> a lot of people think the changes to the desktop are massive, and that a lot of people will have to re-learn how to use the desktop, are there any plans for tutorials or guides or something similar built into ubuntu?
[04:37] <Omega> This was from a while ago, but is still important, Ubuntu used to ship go-ooo, so the switch to Libreoffice is not that radical.
[04:37] <jcastro> sure
[04:37] <gpc> abhijain: please stop that
[04:38] <sebsebseb> ikt: I guess the offical support pages for Ubuntu will get re done for 11.04 or parts of them
[04:38] <jcastro> that's part of the reason we have things like feature and UI freeze, to give teams a chance to update documentation
[04:39] <sebsebseb> Lubuntu still won't be an offical  one in 11.04?
[04:39] <jcastro> I'm not sure what the lubuntu progress is lately
[04:39] <jcastro> maybe asking on their project mailing list
[04:40] <ikt> but I mean going further than standard documentation, like the possibility of having video guides or at worst maybe a youtube channel showing some of the newer features etc (can you tell I'm not a fan of reading :X)
[04:40] <sebsebseb> Why isn't it offical already? I have tried it a few times, its quite good really as an Ubuntu based distro.
[04:40] <jcastro> I don't know why it's not official
[04:40] <jcastro> yeah, I'm sure people will make plenty of videos, etc.
[04:41] <jcastro> I'll be making some myself
[04:41] <ikt> :>
[04:41] <ikt> on youtube or ?
[04:42] <sebsebseb> ikt: yeah reading can be quite time consuming, but reading is a good way to find out things :)
[04:42] <jcastro> yeah, we always post videos on the ubuntu developer channel
[04:42] <jcastro> http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers
[04:42] <sebsebseb> videos and audiocasts may be more fun though
[04:42] <ikt> yeah :D
[04:42] <Omega> If videos are made, do not forget to transcribe them.
[04:43] <sebsebseb> Yeah and Jono has his ustream for people who want to ask questions about Ubuntu and such
[04:43] <Pendulum> Omega: +1
[04:43] <jcastro> right
[04:43] <ikt> sebsebseb, yeah I read a lot, but honestly I just prefer watching videos and seeing how things are done
[04:44] <sebsebseb> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon
[04:44] <jcastro> 15 minutes left, what other questions?
[04:44] <sebsebseb> ikt: he likes showing Unity at the moment it seems, for example
[04:44] <gpc> What is your favorite food?
[04:45] <Sashin> Any work being done on empathy or evolution?
[04:45] <gpc> :-P
[04:45] <jcastro> tacos
[04:45] <gpc> haha
[04:45] <stefano-palazzo_> How do you see Unity being used in large scale deployments, big companies and that?
[04:45] <jcastro> evo and empathy we depend on upstream to do that work
[04:45] <jcastro> we just ship it, though we keep in contact with the guys @ collabora for improvements to empathy, etc.
[04:46] <jcastro> stefano-palazzo_: I don't suspect most large companies would deploy a non-LTS release
[04:46] <jcastro> however when the next LTS is ready for them then Unity will have gone through a bunch of iteration
[04:46] <jcastro> by then it will be pretty metal
[04:48] <jcastro> anything else?
[04:48] <jcastro> no one's asked about btrfs yet!
[04:48] <sebsebseb> uhmm sure
[04:48] <sebsebseb> ,but
[04:48] <sebsebseb> that won't be 11.04 by default I guess
[04:48] <Sashin> What are its advantages over ext4?
[04:48] <sebsebseb> maybe 11.10 though or at least as an option?
[04:49] <sebsebseb> Sashin: snapshots
[04:49] <sebsebseb> so can restore the system to an earlier state or something, if a problem, but I don't know much about btrfs right now at all
[04:49] <jcastro> it's in 11.04 now as an option
[04:49] <stefano-palazzo_> What are the limitations of an install on btrfs going to be on release day?
[04:49] <gpc> how stable is it?
[04:49] <jcastro> but it'll take some time for things like being able to snapshot back after an apt-get install, etc.
[04:49] <sebsebseb> jcastro: oh yeah it was in 10.10 as an option as well if I remember correctly
[04:49] <jcastro> gpc: I won't be using it. :)
[04:50] <jcastro> sebsebseb: yeah but you couldn't boot into it
[04:50] <jcastro> you had to make /boot ext2/3/4
[04:50] <gpc> jcastro: neither will I in that case :)
[04:50] <sebsebseb> unless a seperate boot partition or whatever
[04:50] <jcastro> now the support is there in grub2 and the installer
[04:50] <jcastro> so you'll be able to install it with just pure btrfs if you want
[04:50] <jcastro> but to me it won't really be useful until it's integrated with dpkg and all that
[04:51] <sebsebseb> Ext4 will be good enough for many of us, for quite a while yet I guess
[04:51] <jcastro> imagine being able to say "you know what, I liked 12.04 better than 12.10"
[04:51] <jcastro> and then just roll back
[04:51] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[04:51] <gpc> I like the idea of rollback
[04:51] <sebsebseb> jcastro: well yeah, but the snapshots will take up quite a lot of space or?
[04:51] <jcastro> but it'll be there if people want to play with it
[04:51] <gpc> but it has to be absolutely stable and not wipe all my data
[04:51] <jcastro> not really, that's the best part
[04:51] <jcastro> snapshots are very cheap
[04:51] <sebsebseb> gpc: you and others may get more lonely in #ubuntu when btrfs becomes default :D
[04:52] <jcastro> actually, I found a good video on btrfs, one sec
[04:52] <sebsebseb> gpc: since most problems, can be fixed by a rollback I guess
[04:52] <gpc> sebsebseb: I long for the day we can close #ubuntu or maybe just keep it open as a chat channel and not a support channel .
[04:52] <sebsebseb> that there will be then I mean
[04:53] <jcastro> gpc: I've wanted that closed since 2004. :)
[04:53] <jcastro> http://video.linux.com/video/1608
[04:53] <gpc> haha
[04:53] <jcastro> here you go, this is a good video for btrfs
[04:53] <sebsebseb> jcastro: yeah heh heh I guess
[04:53] <jcastro> from the main upstream guy. :)
[04:54] <sebsebseb> what about ZFS?  maybe that will come properly later on as well? :D
[04:54] <jcastro> that'll catch you up on btrfs in like 45 minutes
[04:54] <Omega> support for ZFS already landed in grub
[04:54] <sebsebseb> Omega: well yeah I read something about that
[04:54] <sebsebseb> ,but I did say more properly above :D
[04:54] <ikt> is there an ubuntu dev website coming along? a la this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT5fUcMUfYg <- ~6:45 in
[04:54] <jcastro> I'm keeping ext4 for a while.
[04:54] <jcastro> http://developer.ubuntu.com/
[04:55] <Omega> I've always been fond of reiserfs myself.
[04:55] <jcastro> this is coming together
[04:55] <ikt> ^_^
[04:55] <jcastro> it'll be following the same release as the distro, so the website will be ready for 11.04
[04:55] <sebsebseb> Omega: Why?
[04:55] <ikt> that's awesome :D
[04:55] <Omega> sebsebseb: I've never had problems with it, except yesterday :(
[04:56] <sebsebseb> oh, and what problem yesterday?
[04:56] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[04:56] <Omega> We can talk about it later, it's kind of off-topic for here
[04:56] <jcastro> ok awesome, well it's midnight here, and we're about out of time
[04:56] <sebsebseb> Omega: true
[04:56] <jcastro> thanks so much everyone for joining in
[04:56] <Omega> Thank you jcastro.
[04:56] <jcastro> you can always keep abreast of changes going in 11.04 by following this list
[04:56] <stefano-palazzo_> jcastro, this has been awesome, thanks a lot
[04:56] <LeGambitteur> thanks to you all guys
[04:56] <jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/natty-changes/
[04:57] <Omega> Thank you for everyone who gave sessions.
[04:57] <gpc> thank you jcastro
[04:57] <Omega> to*
[04:57] <jcastro> and this forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=394
[04:57] <sebsebseb> Longer user days, the better in a way, I guess
[04:57] <pleia2> thanks jcastro :)
[04:57] <ikt> ty jcastro and to all the teachers :>
[04:57] <LeGambitteur> till the end sebsebseb
[04:57] <gpc> thank you pleia2 nhandler Pendulum nigelb and everybody else :)
[04:57] <jcastro> and if you have any questions about ubuntu in general feel free to ask us on http://askubuntu.com/
[04:57] <gpc> thank you ClassBot
[04:57] <jcastro> (though we stick to stable releases on ask ubuntu)
[04:57] <gpc> :)
[04:58] <jcastro> cheers, and goodnight everyone!
[04:58] <Sashin> 'night!
[04:58] <LeGambitteur> nn
[04:58] <pleia2> and if you have a chance, please fill out http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11
[04:58] <pleia2> helps us make the next User days better :)
[04:58] <sebsebseb> pleia2: and in some ways  that may make Open Week better as well I guess
[05:00] <sebsebseb> Ok thanks good user days
[05:01] <LeGambitteur> good night all
[05:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[05:01] <pleia2> thanks everyone!
[05:02] <jcastro> thanks for hosting!
[05:02] <Pendulum> Thanks y'all!
[05:06] <Kljaver> good morning all, hehe
[06:54] <skymonrie> test
[14:11] <goosfancito> hola a todos
[14:13] <goosfancito> soy nuevo en el classroom. como es la tematica?
[15:16] <mpounta> Hello :)
[15:16]  * coolbhavi peers about
[15:17] <coolbhavi> who is around for the packaging intro?
[15:18] <JackyAlcine> :D
[15:19] <MrChrisDruif> I am...well head start for dev, but packaging is also good :P
[15:19] <MrChrisDruif> P.S.: This chatter must be kept in -chat when the classroom starts
[15:20] <coolbhavi> So its time now I guess to get started
[15:20] <MrChrisDruif> In 10 minutes :)
[15:20] <nigelb> Hang on, classbot should voice you and change topic in a few.
[15:20] <coolbhavi> yes
[15:20] <coolbhavi> :)
[15:29] <^mNotIntelligent> hi all
[15:31] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[15:31] <coolbhavi> hello all
[15:32] <coolbhavi> and welcome to an intro into ubuntu development processes
[15:32] <coolbhavi> by me i.e Bhavani Shankar
[15:32] <coolbhavi> so lets get started
[15:33] <coolbhavi> Ok, first things first: for those who are new please join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:34] <coolbhavi> and please just speak in there
[15:34] <coolbhavi> if you ask a question about anything specific to the session, please write something like this in the channel:
[15:35] <coolbhavi> QUESTION: Who is Bhavani's girlfriend?
[15:35] <coolbhavi> and it comes in here
[15:35] <coolbhavi> so that I can answer
[15:36] <coolbhavi> so I hope no questions as of now and lets get started
[15:38] <coolbhavi> I ll make it a short session as possible but before that please do me a favour and bookmark https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted because it links to all the important pages you'll need in your life especially https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases
[15:39] <coolbhavi> if you work on ubuntu development the essential thing for you is to have latest development release running or even a updated pbuilder
[15:39] <coolbhavi> which i ll be covering at a later stage
[15:40] <coolbhavi> So assuming there are no doubts as of now lets move on
[15:42] <coolbhavi> Ubuntu development sphere in short is a sphere consisting of various processes to get in your packages into the official archive or fix existing bugs in a ubuntu package present
[15:44] <coolbhavi> so what I will be going through today in detail is explanation about the various processes in ubuntu development and how to setup your ubuntu devel environment
[15:47] <coolbhavi> We have basically various types of processes like getting in a new package through revu, upgrading various existing packages to the latest version to match upstream merging/syncing a package from debian as ubuntu is based on debian, Stable release updates, Fixing packages failing to build from source
[15:47] <coolbhavi> and so on
[15:48] <coolbhavi> and we have different types of people working in different teams in ubuntu but basically there are these types of people involved
[15:49] <coolbhavi> Contributor: who submits patches to fix bugs and goes through the sponsorship process to get his fix uploaded
[15:51] <coolbhavi> to help contributors who dont have a upload access to the archive we do what is called as sponsoring a package in the ubuntu/debian world which essentially means getting the help of an existing developer to get your patch reviewed and upload it to the official archive
[15:53] <coolbhavi> second group is called as MOTU which stands for Masters of the Universe who have upload access to universe and multiverse components of ubuntu
[15:54] <coolbhavi> Third group is called as a core dev who can upload to main and restricted components of the ubuntu archive in addition to universe and multiverse components
[15:55] <coolbhavi> So any doubts anyone till this stage about the brief overview of ubuntu developer classification?
[15:56] <coolbhavi> so lets move on
[15:56] <coolbhavi> ok, so first of all as a head start please enable "Source code" and "universe" in System → Software Sources → Ubuntu Software
[15:57] <coolbhavi> ok here is a question QUESTION: coolbhavi, when and how does one become MOTU from a contributor ?
[16:01] <coolbhavi> ^mNotIntelligent, once you sustain yourselves in the above mentioned processes of ubuntu development and once your sponsors feel that you are good enough to handle these processes on your own then you ll be given testimonials and asked to face an interview with Developer Membership Board who ll grant you MOTU status upon favorable voting on you in short
[16:01] <coolbhavi> I hope this answers your question
[16:01] <coolbhavi> lets move on
[16:02] <coolbhavi> Now I am going to show you how to setup your ubuntu box as a development environment
[16:03] <coolbhavi> I hope everyone has universe repository or component enabled as said above
[16:03] <coolbhavi> so lets move on
[16:04] <coolbhavi> type this in a terminal:  sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends bzr-builddeb ubuntu-dev-tools fakeroot build-essential gnupg pbuilder debhelper
[16:04] <coolbhavi> It ll take some time depending upon the internet connection
[16:06] <coolbhavi> bzr-builddeb pulls in bzr which we'll use to get the source code for distributed development as an example which will be covered in the coming classes
[16:07] <coolbhavi> ubuntu-dev-tools pulls in devscripts which both are helpful at making repeating packaging tasks easy
[16:07] <coolbhavi> fakeroot is needed by debuild (in devscripts) to mimic root privileges when installing files into a package
[16:08] <coolbhavi> build-essential pulls in lots of useful very basic build tools like make gcc and so on
[16:08] <coolbhavi> gnupg is used to sign files for uploads in future
[16:09] <coolbhavi> pbuilder is a build tool that builds source in a sane, clean and minimal environment and it automatically sets up itself
[16:10] <coolbhavi> debhelper contains scripts that automate lot of the build process in a package
[16:11] <coolbhavi> So I assume download has completed and lets move on to creating a gpg key
[16:11] <coolbhavi> please run gpg --gen-key now
[16:12] <coolbhavi>  sticking to the defaults should be fine
[16:13] <coolbhavi> so while generating a gpg key you ll need to have something called as entropy
[16:14] <coolbhavi> to help the system generate the key
[16:14] <coolbhavi> if you need more info on gpg keys, head to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto which talks about everything in detail
[16:15] <coolbhavi> as I said enter your name, email address and just stick to the default values for now
[16:16] <coolbhavi> while the system gathers enough random data to generate gpg key open up another terminal and we ll continue
[16:16] <coolbhavi> which should be fime
[16:17] <coolbhavi> if you have a gpg key already its best to skip this step
[16:17] <coolbhavi> :)
[16:18] <coolbhavi> in the meantime we ll setup pbuilder
[16:18] <coolbhavi> please open an editor and edit the file ~/.pbuilderrc (create one if you don't have it yet)
[16:18] <coolbhavi> please add the following content to the file
[16:19] <coolbhavi> COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted"
[16:19] <coolbhavi> and save it
[16:19] <coolbhavi> and then run
[16:19] <coolbhavi> sudo pbuilder create
[16:20] <coolbhavi> this will take a lot of time and in between some more info on pbuilder
[16:21] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:21] <coolbhavi> what does pbuilder do? it builds packages in a clean and minimal environment, it keeps your system "clean" (so you don't install millions of  dependencies on your own system)
[16:21] <coolbhavi>  it makes sure the package builds in a minimal, unmodified environment
[16:22] <coolbhavi> so you ensure that the package does not just build because you made lots of changes on your system, but the build is reproducible
[16:22] <coolbhavi> you can update package lists (later on) with: sudo pbuilder update
[16:22] <coolbhavi> and to build packages you run: sudo pbuilder build package_version.dsc
[16:23] <coolbhavi> So there are some 10 minutes in the session
[16:24] <coolbhavi> one more important thing is if you use the bash shell, which is the default, please edit ~/.bashrc
[16:24] <coolbhavi> and at the end of it, please add something like
[16:24] <coolbhavi> DEBFULLNAME="Bhavani Shankar"
[16:25] <coolbhavi> DEBEMAIL="bhavi@ubuntu.com"
[16:25] <coolbhavi> Please use your own name
[16:25] <coolbhavi> and save the file
[16:25] <coolbhavi> :)
[16:25] <coolbhavi> and type source ~/.bashrc
[16:25] <coolbhavi> to update
[16:26] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:27] <coolbhavi> so 5 minutes remain and that should get you setup your ubuntu box as a dev environment
[16:27] <coolbhavi> If there are no questions thats it for now
[16:28] <coolbhavi> and I ll take you through different processes in the coming days
[16:28] <coolbhavi> so assuming its all fine now
[16:29] <coolbhavi> thanks guys for  those who have turned up
[16:29] <coolbhavi> to this session
[16:30] <coolbhavi> I hope to continue this and explain various processes involved in ubuntu development in the coming days
[16:30] <coolbhavi> thanks again
[16:30] <coolbhavi> QUESTION: You say something about the coming days, but I don't see anything about that in the Learning Events Calender. Where and when will you be going to handling it?
[16:31] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[16:32] <coolbhavi> MrChrisDruif, I intend to have these sessions here only every fortnight
[16:32] <coolbhavi> so the session ended
[16:32] <coolbhavi> :)
[16:36] <abhijain> coolbhavi, ? error in installation :Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[16:37] <coolbhavi> abhijain, can you please run sudo apt-get install -f and have output in a pastebin?
[16:39] <abhijain> coolbhavi, ok