[00:00] Thank you all for attending today's sessions. I hope you find them as interesting and helpful as we enjoy doing them. === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Switching from Windows - Instructors: cprofitt [00:01] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [00:02] hello all [00:05] We are going to discuss - Switching to Ubuntu [00:05] There are really two 'ways' of doing this... [00:05] 1) Leave your former OS and use only Ubuntu [00:06] 2) gradually changing from your other OS to Ubuntu [00:07] I am going to make the assumption that most would want to take option 2 as the first one can be fairly frightening [00:07] in both cases the first step would be to back up your data... your data can not be re-installed like an OS can [00:07] so make sure you have that backed up. [00:08] if you are running Windows 7 you can actually backup your data and your OS (in case you want to go back) [00:10] in other cases you can simple copy your data files over to an external storage device; hard drive or usb memory stick [00:10] any question yet at this point? [00:11] ok... moving on [00:12] once you have your backup complete you will want to decide -- full Linux, dual environment or virtual environment [00:12] both of the later two allow you to use both operating systems [00:12] a virtual environment will allow you to use both at the same time [00:12] this is the method many of us choose when we have applications that can not be replaced that run only in Windows [00:13] I want to stress that such applications are rare for home users, but they do exist... or in some cases you may prefer a Windows application to its alternatives [00:14] the only applications that can not run in a virtual environment are most Windows games (they require 3d acceleration) and some multimedia applications that also make use of direct3D functionality like Movie Maker [00:15] good examples of software that can be used inside a virtual environment are Active Directory management tools, VMWare Management tools, tax software and numerous others [00:16] If you need applications that require hardware 3d acceleration you will want a dual boot solution and not a virtual solution [00:16] A one hour block is too small to go in to the complete details [00:16] but here is a link to a set of instructions for dual booting [00:16] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot [00:17] you can also ask for assistance in #ubuntu-beginners [00:17] here is another wiki page about dual booting [00:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DualBootMigration [00:18] the one recommendation I do have is that if you have Windows 7 or Vista that you should use the built-in partition editor (Windows) to resize your Windows partition [00:18] there is a lower chance of an issue [00:19] The best write up I have seen for using Windows to resize your partition is here [00:19] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/resize-a-partition-for-free-in-windows-vista/ [00:20] Another option is to use that does not require a repartion is using Wubi [00:20] instructions for this can be found here [00:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WubiGuide [00:21] Wubi actually loads inside of Windows and takes care of installing Ubuntu [00:21] for virtualization you have two options [00:22] run Ubuntu as a guest on Windows [00:22] or run Windows as a guest on Ubuntu [00:22] personally, as a Microsoft Systems Administrator by day, I prefer to run Windows as my guest [00:23] Ubuntu takes less memory and I feel much more secure being able to control my firewall with Linux than the other way around [00:23] in both cases I would recommend using VirtualBox [00:23] Mostly because VirtualBox is cross platform [00:23] http://www.virtualbox.org/ [00:24] regardless of how you choose to take that first step... your next step will be trying to be 'productive' in your new OS environment [00:24] one of the sites that helped me evaluate 'alternative' applications was Linux App Finder [00:25] http://linuxappfinder.com/alternatives [00:25] if you were using FOSS apps on Windows you will likely be able to just install the same applications on Ubuntu, but if you were in the jail cell with the proprietary apps you will find the site very useful [00:27] the site has multiple applications for each proprietary application and when you click on the app you are presented with a page that gives you a description, a rating (if it has been rated), a link to the app's website and if the application is in the repositories [00:27] repositories... [00:27] wondering what they are? [00:27] repositories are what inspired Apple to build the 'app store' [00:28] repositories contain multiple applications that are able to be installed on your computer without fear of getting a trojan or malware [00:28] In Ubuntu in is called the Ubuntu SOftware Center [00:28] which is also a great place to just browse for applications [00:29] maybe even find some great ones that you would not have known about [00:29] the best part... no expense to try them [00:29] palhmbs> QUESTION: Is it better to start with an older Ubuntu version if my machine is low spec? [00:30] palhmbs: I would say no. If you machine is too low spec to run the full Ubuntu I would try a up-to-date version of one of the low spec alternatives [00:31] lubuntu, xubuntu or even use the alternative installer and carefully choose the components you want [00:31] if your version is too far back it will not be official supported... [00:31] updates, etc... [00:31] LTS versions, on the desktop, are supported for two years [00:32] it will all depend on what you want to do and how 'low' your computer specs really are [00:33] if you have a low spec machine and want to learn a lot about Ubuntu I would recommend the alternate installer [00:33] once you have installed Ubuntu you will certainly run in to issues... [00:34] do not let those bumps get you down... all OSes have bumps [00:34] in fact problems with Ubuntu are what made me discover the best part about Ubuntu [00:34] the community... and the depth of support and the willingness of that community to help me [00:35] there was never any RTFM or insults about how foolish my questions were [00:35] the support also does not cost you $300 per incident like Microsoft suport does [00:35] with Ubuntu you have the following places for support [00:35] http://askubuntu.com/ [00:36] http://ubuntuforums.org/ [00:36] https://help.ubuntu.com/ [00:36] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ [00:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ [00:38] AskUbuntu is realtively new, but it has the great feature of having the 'best' answer (voted on by those using AskUbuntu) at the top right underneath the question [00:38] The forums have fantastic tutorials [00:38] http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100 [00:39] and a forum area just for beginners who are making the transition like you [00:39] http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=326 [00:39] if you are a programmer there is an area for you as well [00:39] http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=39 [00:40] I will not link the rest, but you have areas for Apple users, networking, multimedia, security, server platforms... [00:40] the forums are a truly excellent source of information [00:40] and getting to know your fellow Ubuntu users [00:40] if you want live support you can seek people out on IRC [00:41] just like you might be right now [00:41] You can also see if there is an active Local Community Team in your area [00:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams [00:42] Local teams may even run 'install fests' in your area to assist with the installation of your Ubuntu system [00:42] a great place to find out about activities going on with your LoCo is the LoCo Team Directory [00:42] http://loco.ubuntu.com/ [00:43] just select your continent and then your specific loco [00:43] you will then have a list of activities [00:43] you can take a look at my loco for an example [00:43] http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-newyork [00:43] If there is no active Loco you could also seek out a Linux User Group [00:45] I do want to ensure that you are aware that if you seek help on the forums or in IRC that you may not get instant answers [00:45] in IRC channels many people 'idle' so they can see questions even when they are away [00:46] if you can afford to stay in the channel and wait they will reply when they are 'back' and active in the channel [00:46] for the new Ubuntu user that is unfamiliar this can be a bit 'frustrating' at times... [00:47] but trust me it is much better than going through the automated attendant phone systems you fave with proprietary vendors [00:47] in general you need to plan on making a real committment to learning the new OS, the new apps and getting past some of the learning hurdles [00:48] I promise you it will be worth it in the end [00:48] I have been able to replace every application I used in Windows for personal use [00:48] and only use Windows in a VirtualBox session at work because I manage a 7200 user Microsoft environment [00:49] there have been some questions about system specs... [00:50] I would say that if you were able to run WindwsXP SP 3, Vista or 7 [00:50] you will be able to run Ubuntu [00:50] if your machine struggled to run XP SP3 and was stuck on SP2 or prior you will have to look at some of the low sys requirement alternatives [00:51] any questions as we near the hour? [00:51] if not I want to just let you know about Ubuntu One.... [00:51] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [00:51] Ubuntu one is built in to Ubuntu and it allows you to synchronize your files to the 'cloud' [00:52] and it can keep them in sync with multiple computers or allow them to be shared with others [00:52] http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features#one [00:53] I would like to welcome any potential new Ubuntu users to come and ask the Ubuntu Beginners Team questions as well [00:53] we are in #ubuntu-beginners (for questions) and #ubuntu-beginners-team (get to know us) [00:54] we can also help you when you are ready to 'give back' to the community when you are ready [00:54] oops... double the when you are ready part :-) [00:54] I also, to setup the next session, want to tell you that Ubuntu is not difficult [00:54] each of my children started using Ubuntu at the age of three... [00:55] and each never got frustrated except when our ISP was down and they could not get to the Internet [00:55] they LOVE Ubuntu [00:55] and I think you will as well!! [00:56] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [00:57] One last recommendation -- make sure you attend classroom sessions like this... [00:57] and learn how to use IRC... as it is a great communication tool for getting help and meeting fellow Ubuntu users [00:58] Thanks everyone... [00:59] I hope the session helped you as your progress with transitioning from Windows to Ubuntu. === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Entertaining and educating kids using Ubuntu - Instructors: MichelleQ [01:01] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [01:02] * MichelleQ steps to mic [01:02] Hi y'all [01:02] hello [01:03] I'm MichelleQ, and mhall119 happens to be my husband and star assistant. We're the founders of Qimo, the desktop for kids. :-) [01:03] And I'd like to take a few to talk about entertaining kids using linux, and perhaps educating them while we're doing so. [01:05] There are multiple distributions available for kids, ranging from Edubuntu - which focuses more on classrooms, and Qimo - for young kids, to things like the Miley Cyrus distro, to Fluffy, which is lovely shades of pink. [01:05] There are lots of options for kids. [01:05] Let me address the first issue of safety, before we talk about *how* to entertain kids. [01:06] Safety is the first and foremost requirement of a distro for kids. Qimo is made to be stand-alone, without internet access, but there are all sorts of options for filtering. [01:06] Dan's Guardian is perhaps the most well known. It is a good content filter, but does require a significant amount of tinkering to set it up. [01:07] http://dansguardian.org/ [01:07] SquidGuard is similar to Dan's Guardian. [01:07] http://www.squidguard.org/ [01:07] OpenDNS filters DNS servers, to keep kids from visiting a website they shouldn't. [01:07] both squidguard and dansguardian use an HTTP proxy that filters websites [01:08] And then we've found KidZui, which, though it is a subscription service, is an exceptionally good internet-browser for children. [01:08] OpenDNS has special DNS servers that will block blacklisted pages [01:08] We have installed KidZui for both of our children. [01:08] http://www.kidzui.com/ [01:09] KidZui has worked with us in the past, as well, giving subscriptions to kids who receive Qimo computers from our charity. [01:10] Edubuntu has a feature called GnomeNanny, which does things like set time limits on the computer. [01:10] Any questions on the nitty-gritty before I move onto exploding pink ponies? [01:10] http://projects.gnome.org/nanny/ [01:11] OK, so, how the heck do we actually entertain kids on Linux? [01:11] There are, of course, a whole swath of games that are well known, but there are others that deserve recognition. [01:12] I'm going to start at the top, and work my way down, just to give an overview and age range of games. [01:12] I'd like to start with gCompris, which I am overly fond of. [01:12] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/gcompris [01:13] It's a suite of games, targeting kids 3 to about 12, and while on the surface looks like it may be very elementary, it scales up with kids quite well. [01:13] Games range in difficulty from basic, gross-motor, mouse skill games, to the intricacies of electrical engineering. [01:14] There are multiple layers of games within the gCompris navigation system, and then, there are multiple layers of difficulty in on top of those. [01:14] The electrical engineering game, for instance, teaches kids about circutry, switches, etc. [01:15] It's quite astounding to come into a room to find your four year old figuring out how to wire switches, batteries, and light bulbs together to turn the bulbs on. [01:15] it's actually built on top of GnuCAP, a circuit analysis library [01:15] so all the voltages and everything are correct [01:16] The second suite, of which I am quite fond, is Child's Play. It has multiple memory-building games, but it also has a nifty pac-man style game that encourages beginning spellers. [01:16] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/childsplay [01:16] The games are all positive-reinforcement games, meaning that a child can't lose, per se. It's exceptionally good for the younger set. [01:17] Tux Paint, I'm sure, we're all familiar with, but did you know that you can add both stamps, and coloring pages, into the program? [01:17] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxpaint [01:17] We've added stamps of our kids' heads, which they find rather amusing. [01:18] Qimo also comes with Qimo and Ila coloring pages. [01:18] Tux Type and Tux Math are asteroids-style games. [01:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxtype and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/tuxmath [01:19] Type encourages emerging keyboarding skills, and Math helps build up math skills, from addition and number recognition, to division. [01:19] There are three very excellent space/exploration applications. [01:20] Stellarium is a star-observation tool - kids can explore the night sky. [01:20] http://www.stellarium.org/ [01:20] they can learn about the planets in the solar system, etc. [01:21] Stellarium will be replacing KStars in Edubuntu in 11.04 [01:21] Celestia allows children to explore a simulated universe. [01:21] BTW, all the games we've talked about so far are in the Ubuntu repositories [01:21] http://www.shatters.net/celestia/ [01:21] And Marble is a 3-D geography application. Allows children to explore Earth, learn about its geography [01:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/marble [01:22] Ri-li is a wooden train game, for those of you with kids obsessed, like mine, with all things train. [01:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ri-li [01:23] The purpose of the game is to clear the track for the train to run on, but it is interspersed with quizzes about things like human rights. [01:23] Laby and KTurtle are both basic programming games. Laby allows kids to learn rudimentary python, C, or Java, and Kturtle has a self-defined programming language. [01:24] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/laby [01:24] The goal of both is to code a series of instructions for a little character on screen. [01:24] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/kturtle [01:24] Laby has little mazes from which you have to rescue an ant. KTurtle just allows a child to expore making a character move through programming instructions. [01:25] we got our son started on Laby when he was 5, after about 20 minutes explaining the python commands, he finished the first 2 mazes by himself [01:26] There is also Alice, which is a 3D game designed for girls. Like Laby, and KTurtle, the purpose is to program in a series of instructions, but in Alice, the goal is to make the figure skater dance. the intention is to get little girls interested in programming by giving them a character they can relate to. [01:26] Additionally, there is Scratch, also a rudimentary programming game. Quite expansive. [01:27] http://scratch.mit.edu/ [01:27] Pink Ponies is a tron-esque racing game [01:27] sebsebseb asked: What games would you recommend for a 9 year old, for example? [01:27] Definitely any of the programming games, Tux Math or Type, and things like Tux Racer, which we'll cover in a few minutes. [01:28] also gcompris, which still has enough challenging and entertaining games for a 9 year old [01:28] Pink Ponies is quite mindless fun, the goal is to keep your pony from crossing the path of another pony. If you don't, your pony explodes into a ball of glitter. [01:28] very, very young-girl appealing. [01:29] KTuberling is a delight. Think Mr. Potato Head meets the computer. [01:29] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ktuberling [01:29] You can configure your potato into all sorts of fashions, place him in different environments, etc. Little ones love it, because they love to make the potato's face look silly. [01:30] TuxRacer is really quite fun. The goal is to race your penguin through a course, and go as fast as you can, collecting as many fish as you can, without flinging your penguin into a ravine. [01:30] it can be quite difficult too, and addictive [01:30] then there is Bouncy The Hungry Rabbit [01:31] it's a little game that requires problem-solving skills. The goal is to keep your rabbit happy and fed, by stealing the farmer's crops, without getting caught by the farmer. [01:31] It's Beatrix Potter meets Linux. [01:31] himuraken asked: Is there a way to time restrict each game? [01:31] not each game, no [01:32] but there are some session timers out there that will boot the user back to the login screen after a set time [01:32] sebsebseb asked: Ever played Hannah's Horse? Like Pacman for those that don't know and in the repos :) and aimed at kids. [01:32] I haven't ever seen Hannah's Horse, but it is definitely one I will look into - sounds right up my daughter's alley [01:33] Finally, I wanted to mention both SuperTux, and SuperTuxRacer. [01:33] Think Mario, with penguins. [01:33] Mario Kart that is [01:33] for SuperTuxRacer [01:33] 20:34 < hajour> i would say something about the games .it would be nice if there could be choose from language you want it.my youngest have trouble with english wile Netherlands is here native language. [01:34] hajour: many of the games are translated, some will use the system's language settings, while others ignore than and provide their own way of switching [01:34] some are translated upstream, others use Launchpad [01:35] if you find one without support for a language you want, the best thing to do is file a bug against it in Launchpad, and the game's maintainers will forward it on to where it can be fixed [01:35] I'm runnign way short tonight, so if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask [01:36] There are tons of other entertainment options out there - but these handful are things that we use regularly with our children. [01:36] There's a pretty complete list of the games in both Edubuntu and Qimo here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide [01:36] And let's be honest, here, we've found ourselves spending a little too much time playing Pink Ponies. [01:36] each page has a section for user feedback too, so if you use any of them please leave a little message [01:37] himuraken asked: Qimo is built on Ubuntu. What version of Ubuntu is it currently based on? [01:37] Qimo 2.0 is based off Ubuntu 10.04 [01:38] you can also apt-get install qimo-session in 10.04 or 10.10 [01:38] we're planning a 3rd release to coincide with Ubuntu 11.04 [01:38] Both Qimo and Edubuntu can be added ontop of an already existing Ubuntu install [01:38] sebsebseb asked: What do you think of Tuxpaint? I love that app especially with the extra stamps. [01:38] Tuxpaint is brilliant, on so many different levels. [01:39] It's very, very intuitive for kids to follow, particularly little ones without reading skills. [01:39] sebsebseb: while making the installer slideshow for Qimo 2, I asked out son what he liked best about tuxpaint, he said "Everything is fun in tuxpaint" [01:39] and that's pretty much the truth [01:39] We love being able to add in our own coloring pages, too. The kids love being able to color Qimo into bright red clothing. [01:40] tuxpaint probably has the broadest appeal in terms of age, we've seen 2 year olds up to 16 year olds playing with it [01:40] Heck, we've spent more than a little time playing with it ourselves. [01:40] 20:41 < hajour> are there spoken guidings in the games?3 of my 4 children got dyslectic [01:41] hajour: I don't think so [01:41] hajour: not that I'm aware of. [01:41] I've been trying to get Orca working so I can test it against some of our games [01:41] but alas, I've had no luck with Orca [01:41] gpc: definitely booth the children out of the house and off the computer. We stress that it's not a babysitting service. [01:41] a lot of what is in gCompris and childsplay doesn't require reading though, ours started using them before they could read [01:42] himuraken asked: One of my children just turned 3, is it likely too advanced for him? [01:42] himuraken: definitely not. mhall119's looking for something, can't remember the name of it. It was a simple mouse-movement game. [01:43] Gamine. [01:43] that's it. [01:43] It responds positively to *any* input. [01:43] it's nothing but direct feedback from using the mouse [01:43] there are very basic games in gCompris, too, that work well for a 3yo. [01:44] himuraken: gcompris has a section of games specifically for that age range [01:44] it'll teach them how to use the mouse and keyboard properly [01:44] sebsebseb asked: There's a artwork gallery on the Tuxpaint site of users submitted art work, is any of your kids in there? Probably not. [01:44] No, not our kids personally. [01:44] We've actually discussed setting up an artwork gallery for Qimo on the website, though. [01:45] sebsebseb: I just found http://www.tuxpaint.org/gallery/ [01:45] himuraken asked: Can you give a brief history of the project? [01:46] A brief history of Qimo? Sure. It started off as a simple adjustment to a desktop for my autistic son. [01:46] And we realized that our daughter loved it, too, and so we shared the adjustment with some friends, and the mhall119 suggested we actually do it right, and make it it's own distribution. [01:47] mind you, I had no idea how to make it it's own distro when I suggested that [01:47] My brother-in-law is a graphics artist who kindly donated his talents for the art. [01:47] and away we went. [01:47] gpc asked: How old is Qimo? [01:47] two and a half years now [01:48] Qimo 1 was released in February of 2009 [01:48] and based on Ubuntu 8.10 [01:48] Our son, Quinn, is almost 7. He was four when we started on this [01:48] sebsebseb asked: Do you know of maybe some older people who are using Tuxmath to learn Maths? I know it can be rather useful and fun for anyone who wants to learn maths. [01:49] sebsebseb: we've actually been asked similar questions quite often, and we've been discussing formulating something strictly for older adults. [01:50] When we have gross amounts of freetime, hopefully we'll be able to get around to turning Qimo into a distribution for elderly or dementia patients, to work on cognative skills. [01:50] sebsebseb: you may also be interested in Cognitionplay, it's a variant of Childsplay designed for use with the elderly and adults with mental diseases: http://www.schoolsplay.org/ [01:50] habeous asked: How far does Tuxmath go in the curriculum? Does it go to algebra? [01:51] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [01:51] dang it, wrong room [01:51] hajour tuxmath only goes up to multiplication and division [01:52] for algebra, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/kalgebra [01:52] gpc: the easiest thing to do is email me. [01:52] hajour asked: can the games also run on light weight programs like lubuntu [01:52] hajour: for the most part, yes [01:52] yes, the games will run on any desktop environment [01:52] we use Xfce for Qimo because it's a good balance between weight and features [01:53] gpc asked: is there a Qimo foundation or some way we can donate funds/hardware ? [01:53] the easiest thing to do is email me. since the website is down at the moment, that's the best bet. [01:53] Once the website is back up, there's a donations page, you're welcome to visit there. [01:54] The server apparently needs a technical tap. :-/ [01:54] but if you have a computer, the best thing you can do is install Qimo or Edubuntu on it yourself and give it to a family or daycare facility that could benefit from it [01:54] Any other questions before we go? [01:54] Anyone, anyone? [01:55] sebsebseb asked: Are either of school teachers for example or something like that? A bit of a different question I know. [01:55] Are either of us school teachers? [01:55] No, we're not. Mike's a programmer by trade. I'm an at-home mom, though if I were working, I'd be teaching. [01:56] There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session. [01:56] I've spent most of the past five years concentrating strictly on teaching my own children. [01:56] Someday I'll be back in a classroom, though. :-) [01:57] Any other questions, before classbot boots me? === xindz is now known as xindz`off [01:57] I know MichelleQ mentioned it earlier, but it's worth repeating: all of this technology is a wonderful tool to help teaching children, but it still requires parental involvement and other activities [01:57] Absolutely. Supervision is vitally important, and so is remembering to hit the off button. [01:58] sebsebseb asked: What touch typing software would you recommend? [01:58] sebsebseb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuides/ktouch is the only one I'm aware of [01:58] we haven't gotten to the touch typing stage yet with our kids [01:59] Thank you so much, folks. :-) [01:59] Feel free to track Mike or I down, should you have any further questions. [01:59] remember, you can always go to #edubuntu and #qimo channels to learn more === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Survey: http://tinyurl.com/UUDSurveyJan11 || Event: Ubuntu User Day - Current Session: Linux Security Myth - Instructors: maco [02:01] Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/30/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session. [02:06] Folks, maco will be here in a few minutes :) [02:09] Hi! [02:09] Sorry, I'm at a LinuxChix meetup at a teahouse and lost track of time, but now I'm online, yay [02:10] Anyway, I'm Mackenzie, and I did a thing earlier on GNOME & KDE with pleia2 doing the Xfce side of things. I'm a MOTU and work for a security company now [02:10] So catching up.... I have slides from when I gave this presentation at Southeast LinuxFest and Ohio LinuxFest which you can follow along with here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maco.m/presentations/security/view/head:/OLF2010_security_myth.pdf [02:11] So, the idea for this presentation happened after one of those conversations with my brother where I realise he thinks all bad things on the internet are covered by "virus" and with a friend who didn't know how to tell phishing by looking at a URL [02:13] Some folks hear that "there are no viruses for linux" and assume it's a magic bullet and nothing bad can ever happen. The first chunk of slides dispells that. There are lots of bad things that can happen! [02:14] So, the actual word for all the bad software that hurts you is malware. [02:15] You can flip through the vocab at your leisure. I'm going to get into the explaining [02:15] So, first off: there have been viruses for Linux. Wikipedia has a list of about thirty [02:16] These were the ones that made it into the wild that are known. They won't hurt you if you are using a current system. [02:17] Several hundred more have existed as proof of concept (ie, "we need to patch this, and here's why") but those were not in the wild. [02:17] However existence of past ones should be taken as a hint that more could happen in the future. [02:18] The most recent virus I remember that affected Linux systems was a macro virus for OpenOffice.org and worked cross-platform. That was maybe 3 years ago [02:18] So, other than viruses, there are trojans. I think these are what affects people in general more often and what have the best chance of getting you as a Linux user [02:19] The name trojan comes from trojan horse. "Hi! I'm an awesome game and you should install me!" [02:19] ...and then you're pwned [02:20] A little while back someone posted a "screensaver" in deb form on gnome-look.org [02:20] Some folks installed it. One got suspicious when no new screensavers were listed in the configuration tool. [02:21] Turns out, it started a script which checked for a script online, downloaded, and ran it. The person running the webserver could change that script to do whatever they want whenever they want. [02:21] When someone controls a bunch of computers and uses them to do their bidding, that's a botnet. This deb made a botnet. [02:21] Thankfully it was found quickly and removed from gnome-look.org [02:22] Now, this isn't a "omg gnome-look is evil" -- It's full of user-uploaded stuff. The important thing to take from this is: do not use what you do not have reason to trust [02:22] taves asked: whats linuxchix? [02:23] This is off-topic but just in case someone sees the logs and wants to join in: see http://linuxchix.org [02:23] sebsebseb asked: Many people think that Linux distros won't get targeted by a lot of malware unless they gain the kind of market share Mac OS X or Windows have. What do you think about that? [02:23] I'm sure that as it becomes a more lucrative target attempts will increase. And I also suspect that as we get complacent and gain a false sense of security, our hubris will bite us in the rear [02:24] So, how do you know who to trust? [02:25] (I know this is out of order of slides, oh well. This bit would be around slide 27) [02:27] Packages uploaded to the Ubuntu archives are made by Ubuntu or Debian developers. They sign them cryptographically to prove it's coming from them. Before getting permission to upload packages, trust is established by a long while of sending patches to the other developers to demonstrate knowledge and lack of evil intent. Their application is voted on. So, there is a vetting process [02:28] The packages you download are built on Ubuntu build servers which then sign them. Your package manager on your system checks the signature. If it doesn't match there are a couple reasons [02:28] 1. You need to run "sudo apt-get update" because a new version has been uploaded since you last checked for updates [02:29] 2. The package has been altered or is being pulled from an alternative not-right server (man in the middle attack) [02:29] palhmbs asked: Can you secure your data any better other than using the encrypt personal folder option at install? [02:29] That's fine protection if you just don't want anyone knowing what's there but are ok with them knowing that *something* is there [02:30] There's a field related to encryption called stegonagraphy that's about making it so you can't tell something's there. Truecrypt lets you have hidden *and* encrypted partitions [02:30] palhmbs asked: If known bugs in the kernel can be fixed then regressed / rolled back and allow expliots with root privileges - do the ubuntu team track these bad and patch the kernel to fix these for just us ubuntu users? [02:31] Yes, the Ubuntu Security Team keeps track of CVEs (I forget what it stands for. V = Vulnerability) and prepares fixes for such regressions. Which are fixed first depends on how bad they are. A local exploit isn't nearly as worrisome as a remote one, for example [02:32] If you are aware of a security bug, you can report it in Launchpad and mark it to be a security issue. This will make the bug private and viewable only by the security team so that not-nice people can't learn how to break things by poking around there [02:32] palhmbs asked: Is it much safer not to install devel PPAs? [02:33] I'd say it depends who is running the PPA. Is it upstream developers? Well, you trust the code anyway... Is it an Ubuntu developer? Well you trust the rest of their packages anyway... Is it a random person on the internet? Uhhhh..... [02:33] You can find this out by clicking on their name and looking at all the little icons listed on their page. If they're in ~ubuntu-dev, they're an Ubuntu developer. If the project is hosted on Launchpad, you can see from their Code page whether they're actually working directly on it [02:34] CVE = Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures <--- thank you [02:34] sebsebseb asked: What would your description be of a secure password? [02:35] Long and complicated! Personally, I take sentences, titles, lines of poetry or lyrics.... things with lots of words.. and either mash the words together (if it's like 3-4 words) or take the first letter of each and throw in some punctuation and ch4ng3 l3tt3r5 ... ok too hard to type that way... change letters to numbers [02:35] It makes them easier to remember [02:36] You can write them down if you want. I know, "but what if someone reads it?" Look, if someone has already broken into your house and so able to snoop around post-its under your keyboard...you've got bigger problems [02:36] palhmbs asked: Is Tor the best method for securing network & your anonymity online? [02:37] It was really interesting to learn that there are governments using Tor as their sole source of internet protection. That is, without encryption. I learned this from someone who ran a Tor node and snooped [02:38] For anonymity, yes, go for it. But still use basic protections like https. SSL may be somewhat broken, but it's better than nothing and at least makes them have to put in effort [02:38] LeGambitteur asked: What about hacking passwords using cloud ? [02:39] Spinning up many many cloud instances to crack passwords in parallel in a few hours makes things a lot cheaper than buying massive amounts of hardware. This does change the playing field a bit. IMO, it makes it more important that you don't use 123456 as your password [02:41] Oh, so something new that happened in the DEs a little bit ago (a year or so) is that now you can't run .desktop launchers from inside /home unless they are marked as executable [02:41] This is because it is conceivable that you get a "hot pix!!!!1!!" email with a .desktop file that runs "rm -rf *" (DO NOT RUN. YOU WILL LOSE ALL DATA) and that would be BAD [02:42] So this way you have to take another step other than "click the thingy in my email that gives me hot pix" [02:42] I really like that in KDE it shows you the command that will be run so you can make an informed decision [02:42] (see slides 30-31) [02:42] sebsebseb asked: Maybe not so much on topic, but how do you think educational establishments can teach computer security better? Since most say about antivirus if anything and that's about it. [02:43] Oh they could do a lot better. I was very disappointed to find that my computer security professor was learning things for the first time as he read the slides (which he got from the previous professor) to the class. [02:43] Like this: *reading* "huh!" [02:44] palhmbs asked: Does Ubuntu have built in exploits for government dept use - NSA / CIA whatever? [02:44] I work for neither of those agencies, and if I did, I wouldn't be allowed to answer that [02:44] palhmbs asked: Is security excellent on a distro that is only read-only live-cd / dvd based? [02:45] While nothing can persist beyond reboot (unless you get a BIOS virus...), you could still end up with something affecting you just for that run. But if you intend to attend DEFCON or Black Hat, running from a live cd and not typing in your valuable passwords would be a good plan [02:46] Oh here's something important since everything lives in the web browser now [02:46] Browsers like Firefox are cross platform. They are a big target. [02:46] Cross-site scripting tends to work regardless of the OS or browser. It's a matter of bad coding on the website. You are still vulnerable. [02:47] If you want to be paranoid, install No Script to at least limit what Javascript can run. I don't expect you to know what domains to trust. The important thing is that it alerts on cross site scripting attacks [02:47] Cross site scripting is when one site steals data from another, basically [02:47] The other valuable thing NoScript does is alert on click jacking [02:47] That's when there's an invisible button covering a chunk of the page so when you go to click on something good, you click on something bad [02:48] txomon asked: what about firesheep and those? [02:48] Oh good a segue for HTTPS/SSL! [02:48] You've probably hear to look for the lock and everything is good [02:49] The lock means your connection to the site is encrypted. Firesheep lets anyone on the network manipulate the sites you are on and eavesdrop if you do not use SSL [02:49] Please set your GMail to force SSL in the settings [02:49] Please pester websites which default to insecure. Facebook finally took the hint and is adding SSL [02:49] (Note to self: pester dreamwidth) [02:50] The lock is NOT a magic bullet either though! [02:50] You can have an SSL connection to the wrong site [02:50] If you see http://mybank.com.iamnotevil.hax.info [02:50] You should read all the way to the end [02:50] Maybe that's http://mybank.com.iamnotevil.hax.info/blahblah.asp [02:50] You should read to the slash before blahblah [02:51] These are not the same as mybank.com I was surprised to learn a friend did not know this [02:51] There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session. [02:51] If you are at such a site, you could become a phishing victim [02:51]