[02:28] <rww> ubottu: tell Cyd about enter
[02:43] <gpc> ubottu: tell Cyd about codeofconduct
[02:43] <rww> Cyd is a really fast reader.
[02:44] <gpc> I think he is reading it now
[02:44] <gpc> maybe not
[02:44] <rww> that's not what 'before' means, gpc >.>
[02:44] <gpc> I know what before means, rww 0.>
[02:45] <gpc> hehe
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> It's too bad COPPA doesn't require an apparent-age maturity test too :(
[02:51] <rww> I think we need #ubuntu-offtopic-unregged. Not because of bots, but because I think the questions would screen out some of our users.
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> I'd be fine with that.  The unregistered ones have a much higher incidence of annoyingness lately.
[02:52]  * rww files in the "bad ideas for #ubuntu-offtopic" folder
[03:14] <Flannel> rww: Should require a Myers-Briggs test in -unregged too
[03:15] <Flannel> Can't get in unless you pass
[03:15] <rww> or sort people into different rooms depending on type compatibility!
[03:31] <Flannel> That'd be fun.  Just think of how quiet #ubuntu-offtopic-ISTP would be!
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> hey, Howard Stern.  Just failed the maturity test right there.
[04:36] <gpc> ubottu: tell abhijain about nickspam
[04:36] <gpc> ha
[04:36] <gpc> thanks
[04:36] <rww> ubottu just reinforced your point ;)
[05:55] <bazhang> want me to PM?
[05:55] <tonyyarusso> sure
[05:59] <bazhang> no response so far
[05:59] <bazhang> well not in PM..
[06:02]  * tonyyarusso sigh
[06:03] <bazhang> he seemed to be deliberately provocative
[06:04] <tonyyarusso> Of course, such is the pattern lately.
[11:10] <ikonia> didn't think that screen shot was coming....the ident "snot" was familier from a few days ago
 i need to complain with some official ubuntu people
[12:29] <ikonia> lets see
[12:47] <bazhang> support questions via PM from jungli
[12:48] <ikonia> from where/what nick ?
[12:48] <ikonia> just report it to freenode as he's known and been told to stop it
[12:49] <ikonia> ahh spicemaster
[14:17] <bazhang> * [DrummerBoy38] (~bearblack@pool-72-91-149-20.tampfl.fios.verizon.net): Burt durt smurt
[14:18] <bazhang> judging by the commentary that's hoober et al
[15:19] <ikonia> looking
[15:19] <bazhang> he's abusing all and sundry
[15:20] <ikonia> sorry, didn't have it all on screen
[15:20] <bazhang> thanks. tried to PM him but he just kept escalating abuse
[15:20] <gpc> thank you
[15:26] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: the "bearblack" ident confirms your suspicions.
[15:27] <bazhang> tonyyarusso, I'd thought 'Hoober' was banned in #ubuntu , perhaps a ban evasion
[15:32] <tonyyarusso> yup
[15:43] <gpc> now he is cursing in -il
[15:43] <gpc> eternal that is
[15:43] <bazhang> I'd tried to ping an op from there
[15:44] <gpc> bazhang: <eternal> אם אין כאן כוסיות אני הולך
[15:45] <bazhang> thats not good
[15:45] <gpc> ok we need a ban on this troll
[15:45] <bazhang> topyli, you around? he's really going overboard
[15:52] <gpc> bazhang: maybe we should give him the chan list, he can dig himself deeper and get banned from all of them
[15:53] <bazhang> gpc, nah. mistake on the first one, did not know the extensive issues -il had with him
[15:53] <bazhang> uh jussi
[15:53] <bazhang> he just wants to disrupt them
[15:53] <gpc> jussi: has a plan I sense
[16:01] <bazhang> plan to let him continue abusing people in -ot?
[16:01] <bazhang> may as well contact freenode if the -ot ops can't step in
[16:02] <ikonia> ?
[16:02] <ikonia> what's up
[16:02] <bazhang> eternal continually abusing ljl and others.
[16:03] <ikonia> I thought the kick was enough of a warning
[16:03] <bazhang> longtime issue in -il apparently
[16:03] <ikonia> can't do anything with that
[18:46] <DrummerBoy38> what is the cheatcode to show my kernel? i received update through manager. i am expecting a .35 or so from a .34
[18:46] <DrummerBoy38> this was regular updates afaik.
[18:49] <DrummerBoy38> is there an autocomplete feature? intellisense or w/e
[18:49] <DrummerBoy38> i can barely recall how to list ubuntu version which lists kernel alongside
[18:57] <popey> DrummerBoy38: you probably meant to ask that in #ubuntu, not here in #ubuntu-ops
[18:57] <popey> @btlogin
[18:57] <DrummerBoy38> ubuntu-ops or at bt logic
[18:58] <DrummerBoy38> wait so ubuntu
[18:58] <DrummerBoy38> i asked there
[18:58] <popey> this is not a support channel
[18:58] <DrummerBoy38> not even kernel changes?
[18:58] <popey> it looks like ikonia banned you from #ubuntu
[18:58] <DrummerBoy38> let me check
[18:58] <DrummerBoy38> no i don't think i was
[18:59] <DrummerBoy38> last ikonia experience was through this ip address
[18:59] <DrummerBoy38> if ikonia did, then she unbanned already. i only recall being kicked as a warning of some sort
[19:00] <DrummerBoy38> today's updates included a kernel versions ending in 35 rather than 34 i see in bootloader. i didn't checked the boot loader, again but is there a command to show the kernel through the console
[19:00] <popey> again, this is not a support channel, you're better off asking elsewhere
[19:01] <DrummerBoy38> ok
[19:33] <tonyyarusso> bazhang: One -ot op is back from church now if you still need me.
[20:44]  * tonyyarusso sighs
[20:44] <tonyyarusso> Apparently putting /boot on RAID is a bad idea.
[20:46] <ikonia> depends on the type of raid
[20:47] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: md, level 1
[20:47] <ikonia> that's fine
[20:47] <ikonia> I do it all the time
[20:47] <tonyyarusso> It *sometimes* works.
[20:47] <ikonia> /dev/md0              243M   27M  205M  12% /boot
[20:47] <ikonia> never had an issue with it
[20:48] <tonyyarusso> But it will randomly decide to not boot, and I have to use an install disk to reinstall grub, and then it works again.  No idea why.
[20:48] <ikonia> /dev/md0              485M   46M  414M  10% /boot
[20:48] <tonyyarusso> I can get to "Grub loading...", but it just hangs forever.
[20:48] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: ahhh you've not learnt the lessons......
[20:48] <tonyyarusso> which lessons are those?
[20:48] <tonyyarusso> My current theory is that it does this after kernel upgrades, but I haven't looked into it much yet.
[20:49] <ikonia> grub, no matter the raid level needs to be applied to the boot sector if each disk pointing at /boot on the raw, non raid disk
[20:49] <tonyyarusso> I did that.  In fact, the Ubuntu installer installs grub to all of them by default when you use RAID for /boot.
[20:49] <ikonia> eg: the installer installs grub to sda pointing at hd0,0 you need to apply grub to sdb pointing at sdb hd1,0
[20:50] <ikonia> yes, it installs to both, but it still points to one
[20:50] <tonyyarusso> If by "it" you mean the BIOS, yes.
[20:50] <ikonia> eg sda sdb both look at hd0
[20:51] <tonyyarusso> Yes, they do that.
[20:51] <ikonia> this only works if there is a total disk failure and removal
[20:52] <tonyyarusso> Again, I *did* install grub to the boot sector of all 4 drives.  And it still periodically fails to boot, from any of the drives.  (changing the boot order in the BIOS does not fix the problem)
[20:54] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: Any other bright ideas?
[20:55] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: but when you installed it to your drives did you make it point at /boot on it's own disk, or on the master disk
[20:55] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: What do you mean by "it" and "point at"?
[20:56] <ikonia> sorry, when you install grub did you point grub at /boot on it's own disk, or at the primary boot disk
[20:57] <tonyyarusso> I still don't know what you mean.
[20:57] <ikonia> actually it's a little different with grub2 thinking about it
[20:58] <ikonia> when you install grub it needs to know where grub.conf is
[20:58] <ikonia> so grub gets pointed at the partition that contains it
[21:00] <tonyyarusso> That would be /dev/md0
[21:01] <ikonia> ok, so change that to point at the local disk
[21:01] <ikonia> (local to the disk that grub is installed on)
[21:01] <tonyyarusso> What the heck do you mean by "point at"?
[21:01] <tonyyarusso> Not to mention "that".
[21:01] <ikonia> point at -> tell grub where grub.conf is or menu.lst
[21:04] <tonyyarusso> Dude, what step / file are you talking about?  It's not remotely clear.
[21:04] <ikonia> how do you normally install grub ?
[21:08] <tonyyarusso> Well, first off from the installer.
[21:08] <tonyyarusso> Alternate CD.
[21:08] <ikonia> ok,
[21:08] <ikonia> how about if I said to you do it manually ?
[21:08] <tonyyarusso> grub-install /dev/sdb; grub-install /dev/sdc; grub-install /dev/sdd; grub-install /dev/sde
[21:09] <ikonia> ok, so you'll have to cut me a little slack on grub2 as I've not got my head fully around it's internals
[21:10] <ikonia> but with grub when you dropped to a grub shell, you had two core commands "setup" and "root", root told the grub binary that was going to be written to the MBR where to find menu.lst (and a few other files) and then setup told it which mbr to write the binary to
[21:10] <ikonia> so in that situation grub on /dev/sda would look at /dev/sda1 (/boot) for the stage files and menu.lst
[21:11] <tonyyarusso> If it helps, my entries in /boot/grub/grub.cfg include lines like " set root='(md0)' "
[21:12] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: that's fine as that's "post grub boot" references
[21:12] <ikonia> it's the bit that happens before it tries to boot anything that's key
[21:12] <tonyyarusso> And I just successfully booted after restoring with the install CD, so like I said it sometimes works, but at some point in the future it will cease working.
[21:13] <tonyyarusso> and I don't see anything in /etc/default/grub defining where /boot should be, which I assume is what I would need to change.
[21:14] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: it's not in a config file (for grub 1) it's set in the data written to the mbr
[21:14] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: No, I mean what sets what gets written to the MBR when a new kernel is installed?
[21:15] <ikonia> nothing, as that's in grub.conf, that's dynamic
[21:15] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: Because, again, it's working right now, but will stop later, without me manually touching anything grub-related.
[21:16] <ikonia> /dev/md0              485M   46M  414M  10% /boot
[21:16] <tonyyarusso> /dev/md0              457M   33M  400M   8% /boot
[21:16] <tonyyarusso> What's your point?
[21:16] <ikonia> oops, didn't mean to paste that, sorry
[21:17] <ikonia> mouse button stuck
[21:17] <tonyyarusso> ah :)
[21:19] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: So if it works right now, what could possibly change the MBR to not work later?
[21:21] <ikonia> I guess it depends on what was breaking it, the situation you referenced earlier is often caused with grub not being able to see the menu.lst/grub.conf (disk slow to spin up, missing, corrupted etc) hence why I was saying make sure grub looks at it's own disk for that info
[21:23] <tonyyarusso> ikonia: One thing I've heard is that maybe the RAID array isn't available yet when grub goes looking for it - does that sound plausible?
[21:25] <tonyyarusso> Wait, are you saying the grub on /dev/sdb should be looking for /dev/sdb1/grub/grub.cnf rather that /dev/md0/grub/grub.cnf, just ignoring the RAID entirely?
[21:25] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: yes and no, yes, you're right, it's not available as Linux hasn't booted to start it, however it won't look at md0 for the data it needs at that point, it looks at the local physical disk, hence why I'm saying grub at sda should look at sda1 for the info, and sdb look at sdb1
[21:25] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: it will never look at md0
[21:25] <tonyyarusso> oh, hrm
[21:25] <tonyyarusso> How would I know whether it's doing that or not?
[21:25] <ikonia> that's why /boot could never go on a raid0 partition
[21:26] <ikonia> as /boot wouldn't exist until boot, so menu.lst would never be available
[21:26] <ikonia> tonyyarusso: not sure how to check with grub2, not fully got my head around the internals
[21:27] <ikonia> (did I explain it ok this time, it's hard to get across on irc)
[21:27] <tonyyarusso> I think I understand what you're getting at now at least, but not how to implement it.
[21:28] <ikonia> grub1....I'm all over, grub2, not fully understood more so with the odd layout ubuntu uses it with
[21:30] <tonyyarusso> Well, I'll leave that to muddle over for a while and go deal with concrete hardware things for a while :P
[21:30] <ikonia> I'll look into it, it's time I picked it up
[21:35] <rww> ubottu: tell eXistZ|Away about away
[21:57] <DrummerBoy38> happy pro bowl night!
[22:02] <DrummerBoy38> have nice day
[23:59] <bazhang> seems to be tag teaming. identical nonsense