[04:37] <cpatrick08> i am running the kubuntu natty daily 2011021.1 and when i update with kpackagekit i get the following error message E: Error http://ppa.launchpad.net natty/main Sources
[04:37] <cpatrick08> 404 Not Found
[04:38] <cpatrick08> i have checked all the sources in the kubuntu software and other software
[05:00] <edgy> cpatrick08: it seems you added your own source becuase there is no ppa in natty file
[05:00] <cpatrick08> ok
[05:05] <Wanderer> Anyone else's X explode after latest updates to Natty?
[05:13] <bazhang> Wanderer, I think the topic addresses that; you may also want to get the rss feed of Natty changes to keep apprised of such
[05:14] <bazhang> http://feeds.ubuntu-nl.org/NattyChanges
[05:14] <Wanderer> was reading the topic,  thats about a week old,  think it's still valid?
[05:15] <bazhang> seems to be tons of X issues, so perhaps *that* particular one is fixed, but I'd be wary
[05:16] <slyrus> Ok, now that I've borked my X server completely... What package(s) _should_ I install to try and get things back to working again? xorg? xserver-xorg?
[05:16] <Wanderer> slyrus: X segfaulting?
[05:16] <slyrus> dies on startup, it seems
[05:17] <Wanderer> same here
[05:17] <slyrus> any ideas in which log files I might look to see evidence of it dying?
[05:18] <Wanderer>  /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
[05:19] <slyrus> no, hasn't been touched since 1/31/11...
[05:20] <slyrus> I probably left my system in a hosed state dist-upgrading in the middle of the partial upgrade cycle
[05:20] <Wanderer> try and just execute "X
[05:20] <Wanderer> "X" even
[05:21] <edgy> what? I have updated but not rebooted. I am frightened now :(
[05:21] <Wanderer> looks like glew-utils is in a funky state
[05:21] <Wanderer> edgy: don't reboot
[05:21] <Wanderer> x is borked
[05:21] <edgy> Wanderer: so what can I do now?
[05:22] <slyrus> tells me xserver-xorg isn't installed and that I need to install it -- which leads me back to my original question about which package
[05:22] <slyrus> I'll try reinstall xserver-xorg and see what that does
[05:22] <Wanderer> edgy: just wait until the X release is done I guess
[05:23] <edgy> Wanderer: any bug filed for this?
[05:24] <Wanderer> I'm sure there are, check the topic
[05:25] <slyrus> OK, that worked. yea.
[05:26] <edgy> Wanderer: but I upgraded to the latest and it's working I mean version 1.9.99
[05:26] <Wanderer> mine worked fine until reboot
[05:27] <Wanderer> then X wouldn't restart
[05:27] <edgy> Wanderer: what's the error you get in the log file?
[05:27] <Wanderer> X segfaults
[05:27] <slyrus> so I get X, but I'm still back to things like unity not working (and X (?) continuing to try to launch it, pegging the CPU)
[05:27] <edgy> Wanderer: what's the version of xserver-xorg-input-evdev you are using?
[05:28] <Wanderer> it's the 2.6.0  ubuntu6
[05:28] <Wanderer> but I tried dropping that one package to ubuntu 4-5 and the previous 1.X version
[05:28] <Wanderer> no change
[05:30] <edgy> Wanderer: what's your vga card?
[05:31] <Wanderer> Nvidia 585
[05:33] <edgy> Wanderer: then I don't know. I am using ati and it's working but i didn't recheck after the the updates of today
[05:34] <slyrus> ugh. yeah, nautilus is segfaulting like crazy...
[05:49] <slyrus> look at that...
[05:49] <slyrus> the google to the rescue. removing groundcontrol (which removes python-nautilus) seems to fix the problem.
[05:49] <slyrus> hth did that get installed in the first place?
[07:29] <sagaci> hi, having trouble booting the +1 daily onto bare metal
[07:29] <sagaci> always spits out radeon, evergreen errors. Any way to disable this?
[09:18] <vega-_> any notable difference in natty boot speed comparing to maverick?
[10:13] <coz_> hey all
[11:19] <coz_> updates still breaking nvidia
[12:49] <Zuhaitz> Hi
[12:49] <Zuhaitz> I am having problems for 11.04 usb install, with loop filesystem.
[12:50] <Zuhaitz> cannot mount /dev/loop0
[12:50] <Zuhaitz> Any help?
[13:07] <yofel> hm... did nouveau get offical 3D support o.O?
[13:07] <yofel> (or why do I have working compositing without nvidia-current and libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental?)
[13:08] <brot> yofel: depending on what card you have, nouveau provides some 3d, yes
[13:09] <yofel> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GT218 [NVS 3100M] (rev a2)
[13:09] <yofel> well, let's see how well it works for a while ^^
[13:09] <yofel> that I'm getting low-res plymouth on boot feels odd though
[13:09]  * yofel goes looking for reports
[13:15] <alex_mayorga> video corruption on .38 kernel with nvidia cards anyone?
[13:17] <yofel> not yet..
[13:25] <alex_mayorga> yofel: can you point me to troubleshooting procedures?
[13:28] <yofel> better ask that in #ubuntu-x, I'm clueless there
[15:34] <cdbs> I thought the X server was fully uploaded
[15:34] <cdbs> and I did a dist-upgrade
[15:34] <cdbs> now I get this error:
[15:35] <cdbs> http://paste.ubuntu.com/561450/
[15:36] <Amaranth> cdbs: I'm fully up-to-date and just passed an apt-get upgrade --fix-policy run even (with ubuntu-desktop installed)
[15:36] <Zoiah> If I do a dist-upgrade, it wants to:
[15:36] <Zoiah> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[15:36] <Zoiah>   cryptsetup xserver-xorg-video-all xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[15:36] <Zoiah> Removing cryptsetup will probably break my encrypted rootfs initramfs?
[15:37] <Amaranth> Sounds like you guys are on outdated mirrors
[15:37] <Amaranth> Although I dunno about the cryptsetup stuff
[15:37] <yofel> here it upgraded X fine..
[15:37] <Wanderer> erf,  xserver is still horked
[15:37] <cdbs> Is there some problem with the deps?
[15:37] <Amaranth> But I have -nouveau and such and everything is upgraded
[15:37] <Amaranth> cdbs: Yeah, your mirror doesn't have the driver rebuilds
[15:37] <Volkodav> yofel: did it ask to remove any packages on it ?
[15:38] <cdbs> Amaranth: FYI I am on archive.ubuntu.com :)
[15:38] <Volkodav> mine still wants to remove googleearth and nvidia-current
[15:38] <Amaranth> cdbs: apt-get update then :)
[15:38] <Zoiah> I'm using http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com
[15:38] <Amaranth> Volkodav: Yep, nvidia has to go
[15:38] <cdbs> Amaranth: did one a few moments ago
[15:38] <Amaranth> Volkodav: xserver DDX ABI changed, nvidia needs to build a new driver against it
[15:38] <yofel> well, I don't have googleearth installed
[15:38] <Volkodav> Amaranth: is the new nvidia package ready though ?
[15:39] <Wanderer> is there a way to make sure the mirrors are up to date?  I'm using mirrors.kernel.org
[15:39] <yofel> and even nvidia 270 with ignoreABI doesn't work with new X
[15:39] <yofel> so no point in having it installed
[15:39]  * yofel is on VESA currently
[15:39] <Volkodav> Wanderer: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[15:39] <Amaranth> Right, because for some reason nvidia hooks in to the input and video interfaces and the ABI changed on both
[15:39] <Wanderer> Vol: reading, thanks
[15:39] <Amaranth> afaik ignoreABI only applies to video
[15:40] <Volkodav> so I understand there is no nvidia package yet ?
[15:40] <Volkodav> compiled against new X I mean
[15:41] <Amaranth> Volkodav: There may be a beta
[15:42] <cdbs> so this is the scenario:
[15:42] <coz_> unless you use  xorg-edgers  maybe
[15:42] <Amaranth> It wouldn't be in edgers
[15:42] <coz_> ah ok
[15:42] <Amaranth> And using edgers right now breaks things
[15:42] <cdbs> the installed drivers provide xserver-xorg-video-8
[15:42] <cdbs> and the new core package breaks -8 and needs -9
[15:42] <Amaranth> cdbs: But only on your system :)
[15:42] <cdbs> though apt has packages that provide -9, it is failing
[15:43] <cdbs> it should forcefully install them all
[15:43] <yofel> current nvidia beta is 270.18, and that didn't work here, so we'll have to wait
[15:44] <coz_> I think I'll put of updating for a w hile :)
[15:44] <coz_> put off  rather
[15:44] <yofel> anyone with nvidia shouldn't update ;)
[15:44] <Amaranth> oh, I think 270.18 had support for xserver 1.10 rc1 but the ABI changed again before final
[15:44] <coz_> maybe a big  "NVIDIA  BROKEN"  in topic :)
[15:44] <cdbs> everytime I am running apt-get -f install, its installing 1 package and then failing
[15:44] <cdbs> so this seems to be the only solution
[15:45] <Volkodav> well we'll wait then
[15:45] <Amaranth> coz_: It's well known that running a development version will break nvidia and fglrx
[15:45] <Amaranth> It does every cycle
[15:45] <coz_> yep
[15:45] <yofel> coz_: well, you can use nouveau, but that freezes all the time here
[15:45] <Volkodav> no urgent need
[15:46] <coz_> yofel,   it really no big deal at this point... I didnt update so things are working well... i will just wait :)
[15:46] <yofel> yep, better choice
[15:47] <bjsnider> yofel, it didn't work?
[15:47] <cdbs> Yay! Worked!
[15:47] <cdbs> I had to run apt-get -f install 13 times
[15:47] <yofel> bjsnider: I got an X segfault with ignoreABI, but I can try it again later
[15:50] <Wanderer> ok, anl.gov is up to date, and ipv6, but my X is still horked
[15:50] <Wanderer> bad timing, the one week I needed it stable I upgrade
[15:50] <Wanderer> crap
[15:52] <coz_> alpha 2 tomorrow?
[15:54] <yofel> planned for tomorrow, yep
[15:54] <coz_> yofel,   ok cool.. I suppose :)
[15:54] <Wanderer> so I'm hosed til then atleast?
[15:55] <coz_> Wanderer,  if the nvidia stuff is fixed by tomorrow... I doubt it
[15:55] <yofel> in what way is X hosed for you?
[15:57] <Wanderer> yofel: X segfaults when it tries to start
[15:57] <Wanderer> I tried backing down the evdev,  no change
[15:57] <yofel> got the backtrace?
[15:58] <yofel> (I mean, is it really evdev that crashes it?)
[15:58] <Wanderer> I get 9 lines when it segs, I dont see anything related to evdev, but that's the highest hit from googling and worth a shot
[15:58] <Wanderer> I don't do much coding so I'm in somewhat familiar waters here
[15:59] <yofel> can you pastebin the crash if you have it?
[15:59] <Wanderer> hmm, let me see if I can get it
[15:59] <yofel> the trace I mean
[15:59] <Wanderer> right
[15:59] <yofel> and I still only have 256 colors with intel on my eeePC o.O (945GME)
[16:00] <Wanderer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/561462/
[16:01] <yofel> yep, that looks like about what I got when I tried it
[16:01] <yofel> nvidias fault
[16:02] <yofel> remove nvidia-current and delete /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[16:02] <yofel> that'll give you nouveau
[16:03] <bjsnider> you can also deactivate the driver in jockey
[16:04] <Wanderer> ok, I'm not using nvidia-current, I downloaded the latest
[16:04] <Wanderer> do I need to install xserver-xorg-nvidia ?
[16:05] <bjsnider> you downloaded the latest what?
[16:05] <yofel> no, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau should already be installed
[16:05] <yofel> er, wait
[16:05] <Wanderer> latest nvidia drivers from nvidia.com
[16:05] <yofel> (what bjsnider said)
[16:05] <bjsnider> ugh, why do i bother
[16:06] <yofel> ..
[16:06] <Wanderer> been using those for 6 months,  had problems with performance in wine
[16:06] <yofel> Wanderer: run the .run with... --uninstall I think, reinstall all X packages and hope for the best
[16:07] <coz_> Wanderer,   a    sudo /usr/bin/nvidia-installer --uninstall  should uninstall the downloaded driver
[16:07] <Wanderer> k
[16:07] <bjsnider> i'm trying to get the .run files disabled. it's a small packaging change to jcokey-common but it would work
[16:07] <yofel> bjsnider: how?
[16:08] <bjsnider> so if you have jockey-common, which everybody does, you wouldn't be able to use the nvidia-installer
[16:08] <bjsnider> they're already disabled for everybody that has nvidia-common, but not enough systems have that package
[16:09] <bjsnider> yofel, a year ago code was added to the nvidia-installer at canonical's request to facilitate this feature
[16:09] <yofel> ah
[16:09] <bjsnider> nvidia already explicitly tells people not to use their installer, but people do anyway
[16:10] <yofel> hehe
[16:10] <Wanderer> I have 2 nouveu packages, libdrm,  no xorg
[16:11] <Wanderer> installing xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[16:12] <Wanderer> ok, if I'm not supposed to use .run,  how do I install it?
[16:12] <Wanderer> I've been doing it from command line with a "sh Nv......"
[16:14] <Wanderer> ok, package installed,  starting "X" says no devices
[16:22] <yofel> you need to reboot for nouveau to work
[16:24] <Wanderer> k
[16:24] <Wanderer> question as I've not used nouveau that I know of
[16:25] <Wanderer> I use wine to play warcraft on weekends,  the reason I went to the nvidia packages was due to performance issues.  will I have that with nouveau or is it better than the "nv" driver?
[16:26] <yofel> Wanderer: nouveau is better than nv, but not really stable here
[16:27] <yofel> at least not as stable as nvidia
[16:27] <Wanderer> ok, I'm still getting the No devices after reboot
[16:27] <Wanderer> lets give it a try then and see if I can use nouv or if I have to back down to mav for a couple weeks
[16:28] <Wanderer> how do I regen the xorg.conf to use the nouv drivers?
[16:33] <yofel> Wanderer: you delete it
[16:33] <Wanderer> I did
[16:33] <yofel> nouveau doesn't need a xorg.conf
[16:34] <Wanderer> then ran "X" and it says it can't find any devices
[16:34] <yofel> oh
[16:34] <yofel> did you un-blacklist the nouveau module?
[16:35] <Wanderer> ah, that may be it
[16:36] <Wanderer> rebooting
[16:37] <Wanderer> ok, got X
[16:38] <Wanderer> hmm, not logging in
[16:39] <Wanderer> looks like kde
[16:39] <Wanderer> fluxbox works
[16:39] <coz_> fluxbox is nice :)
[16:41] <Wanderer> yeah, just used to kde, havne't used flux or black in a decade
[16:42] <Wanderer> probably since enlightenment e15 was dev
[17:09] <MTecknology> Is it a known bug that upgrading plymouth 0.8.2-2ubuntu9->0.8.2-2ubuntu13 breaks because of the dependency change with libdrm-nouveau1->libdrmnouveau1a ?
[17:14] <Wanderer> hmm, progress but no libGL
[17:41] <yofel> MTecknology: you need to remove libdrm-nouveau1, that's old
[17:42] <MTecknology> yofel: ya, but shouldn't the package manager be able to handle that?
[17:42] <yofel> it should, if nothing else is depending on the old lib
[17:44] <MTecknology> yofel: aptitude upgrade won't make the change; I pop open aptitude, press U, and then it tries to resolve the issue, it does so fine but having to go through that is probably a bug..
[17:45] <yofel> aptitude upgrade
[17:45] <yofel> is aptitude safe-upgrade, it won't remove *any* deps in that state
[17:45] <yofel> you need to use aptitude full-upgrade for that
[17:45] <MTecknology> oh...
[17:45] <yofel> that will do the same as apt-get dist-upgrade
[17:45] <MTecknology> I feel kinda dumb now..
[17:46] <MTecknology> thanks :)
[17:46] <yofel> aptitude safe-upgrade will only remove things that apt-get autoremove would remove too after an apt-get upgrade
[17:47] <MTecknology> I forgot that upgrade was safe-upgrade
[18:03] <setuid> I need to backrev my kernel down to allow me to run vmware workstation, the kernels in Natty removed some critical kernel options that vmware needs
[18:04] <setuid> How do back down to a 2.6.32-2.6.36 kernel?
[18:04] <Volkodav> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[18:04] <Volkodav> they all here
[18:05] <setuid> Is there a sources.list entry I can use to pull those?
[18:05] <setuid> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[18:05] <setuid> Cannot resolve hostname
[18:07] <Volkodav> it resolves here allright
[18:07] <setuid> wget likes it, epiphany does not
[18:07] <setuid> pulling them now
[18:15] <setuid> ugh
[18:16] <setuid> Could not find /boot/grub/menu.lst file. Would you like /boot/grub/menu.lst generated for you? (y/N)
[18:16] <setuid> Natty doesn't support that
[18:16] <setuid> but these kernels reuqire it
[18:16] <setuid> shit, it's using a generic on e
[19:01] <setuid> ugh, so with grub-pc, I now have to update the grub params in 4 places
[19:02] <yofel> huh?
[19:02] <yofel> usually you only edit /etc/default/grub
[19:02] <setuid> Sorry, 3: /etc/default/grub, /etc/initramfs-tools/modules, /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[19:02] <yofel> you *never* edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[19:02] <setuid> and now there's no way to tell it to boot a non-0 kernel
[19:02] <yofel> update-grub generates and overwrites that file
[19:03] <yofel> what do you mean by non-0? you mean other than the one at the top of the list?
[19:03] <setuid> Starting from menuentry 0 in /boot/grub/grub.cfg, my target kernel is 6 in the list, so I put GRUB_DEFAULT=6 in /etc/default/grub, and it boots 0 anyway
[19:04] <yofel> did you run update-grub after changing that?
[19:04] <setuid> There's no other way to see what the kernel list order is... why-o-why people add exponential levels of complexity for no logical reason, is beyond me
[19:04] <setuid> Yes, I did
[19:05] <yofel> hm... this did work last time I tried it (a long time ago)
[19:05] <setuid> I have no grub boot menu, so I have no idea what kernel it's booting (that too, was removed)
[19:05] <setuid> Is everything moving to a "ONLY my grandmother can use it" model?
[19:05] <setuid> It seems like all the features, power, flexibility and ease of use is being ripped out of Ubuntu (and likewise KDE and GNOME are doing the same thing too)
[19:06] <gpc> if your grand mother can use it that means someone more experienced should have no issues
[19:06] <yofel> you get to the grub menu by holding left shift pressed before grub comes up, or by changing
[19:06] <yofel> GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0
[19:06] <yofel> GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=true
[19:06] <setuid> gpc, My grandmother would use it unconfigured, I like to customize my installs.. can't do that anymore
[19:06] <gpc> setuid: yes you can, you just need to look a little deeper now.
[19:07] <yofel> I commented #GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=0 out here, works fine
[19:07] <setuid> gpc, No, not true... look at gdm for example, the whole customization bit was ripped out
[19:07] <setuid> Look at fontconfig, ripped out the ability to render bitmap fonts
[19:07] <setuid> so no 6pt or smaller fonts
[19:07] <gpc> cosmetics...
[19:10] <setuid> Sure, if you consider removing leather seats from a sports car and replacing them with a park bench "cosmetics" :)
[19:11] <gpc> setuid: you were talking about customizing grub, I doubt your grand mother would ever do that. Now your complaining about font sizes.
[19:12] <setuid> yofel: Ugh, I see why it doesn't work... the 6th kernel is behind a grub menu opton called "Previous Linux versions", which I have to interactively enter to change
[19:12] <setuid> Well, the 4th through nth kernels are, that is
[19:12] <yofel> oh... I would count *that* as a bug
[19:13] <yofel> yeah, that was added recently
[19:15] <setuid> So no way to set a previous kernel as the default?
[19:16] <setuid> or... how do I "flatten" that menu system so it shows all the available kernels from the top-level grub menu?
[19:18] <yofel> I don't know that, but file a bug about the default setting being ignored in the menu, that shouldn't happen
[19:18] <yofel> ubuntu-bug grub-pc
[19:51] <setuid> Doesn't seem to be a way to point it to the kernel I want, so I'll remove everything except memtest, leaving only the kernel I want
[19:54] <setuid> Lovely, an update to current, removes the nvidia drivers and all dkms modules
[19:54] <setuid> (Reading database ... 285781 files and directories currently installed.)
[19:54] <setuid> Removing nvidia-173 ...
[19:54] <setuid> Removing all DKMS Modules
[20:19] <popey> setuid: yeah, wondering when nvidia-current will be rebuilt for natty :S
[20:20] <rmcbride_nb> indeed
[20:21]  * popey builds it locally to test
[20:23] <bjsnider> we could rebuilt it in the x-updates ppa if you think it would help
[20:26] <genii-around> The nouveau driver drives me nuts
[20:27]  * yofel escaped to vesa
[20:27] <genii-around> Every time I move the cursor it disappears
[20:27] <rmcbride> it doesn't seem to recognise my external monitor
[20:28] <rmcbride> or the native resolution/aspect ratio of the laptop's display. I'm not sure if that's an issue with my configuration though
[20:28] <yofel> hm, that didn't happen here, I just got an X freeze every ~20min
[20:28] <rmcbride> filing a bug about the resolution issue anyhow
[20:31] <rmcbride> oops. apport hook for xserver-xorg-video-nouveau got an assert error.
[20:31] <genii-around> rmcbride: I had same resolution prob. wouldn't do 1680x945, just 1024x768
[20:40] <coz_> good day all
[20:42] <setuid> Installing nvidia-173 remove xorg?!
[20:43] <setuid> s/remove/removes/
[20:43] <setuid> That's kind of ... unintuitive. Let's intsall the nvidia drivers, and then remove everything that depends on them
[20:46] <yofel> well, the current nvidia drivers aren't compatible with current x server
[20:46] <yofel> so they won't install together with it
[20:47] <genii-around> Specifically to me it wails about unsupported ABI version...
[20:49] <Daekdroom> It's so much better than installing it and breaking you system, per say.
[20:51] <yofel> yeah, nvidia-current doesn't have that package check yet (I think)
[20:54] <charlie-tca> correct
[20:54] <charlie-tca> Xserver 1.10 does not support nvidia-current at this time
[21:01] <bjsnider> the 270 blob is supported at least partially. if someone wants to test it by rebuilding it in pbuilder i can rebuilt it in x-updates (assuming it works)
[21:03] <multiplatinum> hey guys
[21:03] <multiplatinum> the appmenu needs some serious work
[21:03] <multiplatinum> cuz the way it is now...
[21:04] <multiplatinum> who uses the appmenu?
[21:05] <Daekdroom> I use the gnome panel version so I can get used to it while I'm not into Unity
[21:07] <bjsnider> ok guys, we won't be rebuilding nvidia-current until a new blob is released because it would be futile
[21:07] <BUGabundo> o/
[21:07] <multiplatinum> it makes pidgin crash
[21:07] <multiplatinum> it flashes when opening a new app
[21:07] <multiplatinum> it crashes too
[21:08] <coz_> bjsnider,  ok ,, I dont intend to update so all is fine on t his end :)
[21:10] <rmcbride> bjsnider: so you're saying I should not go looking for the 270 blob and try building it in my pbuilder?
[21:11] <bjsnider> rmcbride, it wouldn't work with this xserver
[21:11] <rmcbride> bjsnider: OK
[21:11] <bjsnider> as soon as a new 270 blob is released, the same day, we will have it in the x-updates ppa
[21:28] <graingert> heya, is there a good upgrade path for nvidia users?
[21:28] <graingert> as upgrade-manager wants to remove nvidia drivers
[21:29] <graingert> should I back of to nouveau first?
[21:37] <coz_> graingert,    dont update
[21:37] <coz_> graingert,   <bjsnider> as soon as a new 270 blob is released, the same day, we will have it in the x-updates ppa
[21:38] <graingert> so I need to add that ppa?
[21:38] <coz_> graingert,  <bjsnider>  we won't be rebuilding nvidia-current until a new blob is released because it would be futile
[21:38] <coz_> graingert,  no  no nvidia driver at the moment
[21:38] <graingert> okay can I change to nouveau?
[21:38] <graingert> coz_,
[21:39] <coz_> graingert,  I believe if you remove the installed driver   it s hould revert to nouveau
[21:39] <graingert> and remove the nvidia xorg.conf?
[21:39] <graingert> jocky-gtk seems to have borked :(
[21:39] <yofel> no, you should disable it first (not sure what'll happen to xorg.conf otherwise)
[21:39] <yofel> try jockey-cli
[21:39] <yofel> er
[21:39] <yofel> jockey-text
[21:40] <graingert> doesn't give any options
[21:40] <graingert> ooh dbus has gone mental
[21:40] <graingert> yaaaay
[21:40] <graingert> hokay I'll do it from the root terminal
[21:40] <setuid> Any updates on why xorg* is being pulled?
[21:41] <graingert> you just missed it
[21:41] <setuid> nv, nouveau, nvidia rips out all of X
[21:41] <graingert> are you sure?
[21:41] <graingert> that sounds bad
[21:41] <yofel> nouveau should work..
[21:41] <setuid> Yes, absolutely sure
[21:41] <setuid> one sec, pastebot'ing
[21:41] <charlie-tca> nouveau does work
[21:41] <graingert> aaalso
[21:42] <yofel> nvidia-96 and 173 won't install
[21:42] <yofel> -current will break X when you install it
[21:42] <graingert> yes that's becuase of the new x-stack
[21:42] <setuid> yofel, Right, installing them rips out most of xorg
[21:42] <yofel> yes, intentionally
[21:42] <graingert> can't you just make nvidia-current an empty package?
[21:42] <charlie-tca> installing nouveau does not rip out X, though. It is used when the hardware drivers are pulled out
[21:43] <graingert> so it will not rip out x
[21:43] <setuid> http://pastebin.com/MUwLZU8p
[21:43] <graingert> then fill it in when everything is fine
[21:43] <yofel> -current won't rip out X, it will break it
[21:43] <yofel> graingert: why bother?
[21:43] <setuid> No, it removes xorg-*
[21:43] <setuid> See the above pastebot
[21:43] <setuid> er, pastebin
[21:43] <graingert> _if_ it does as setuid claims, to everyone
[21:44] <graingert> dropping out to neuveau should be the behaivour
[21:44] <yofel> ah, so it does
[21:44] <yofel> yep, you'll have to use nouveau
[21:44] <setuid> Nouveau still restricts us to 2D only, no 3D, right?
[21:44] <coz_> I think it depends on the card
[21:45] <coz_> some minimal 3d available for some cards
[21:45] <yofel> well it has 3D for some cards, and with libgl1-mesa-dri-experimental for some more
[21:45] <setuid> Well, on any nvidia card in notebooks, it does
[21:45] <graingert> I believe it works with metacities compositor
[21:45] <yofel> it did have 3D on my quadro nvs 3100M
[21:45] <coz_> it should
[21:45] <setuid> I don't use metacity or compiz or any of that dreck, but it has a HUGE impact on 2D speed in X
[21:45] <yofel> worked with kwin here
[21:46] <graingert> setuid, but what about wobbly windows :(?
[21:46] <graingert> setuid, to many people that's what linux is
[21:46] <yofel> huh? I found nouveau 2D to be very fast, with or without 3D
[21:46] <setuid> graingert, pick up your laptop and wobble it
[21:46] <yofel> heh
[21:46] <setuid> yofel, driver is still 'nv', right?
[21:46] <yofel> no
[21:46] <yofel> nouveau
[21:46] <graingert> setuid, but that means I have to put effort into being anoying and reducing my workrate
[21:46] <yofel> and nouveau doesn't need a xorg.conf
[21:47] <setuid> yofel, My laptop requires xorg.conf
[21:47] <yofel> why o.O?
[21:48] <setuid> yofel, Because the default xorg.conf, or the default X witout xorg.conf is nowhere near optimized for actual real usage
[21:48] <setuid> IOW, proper gamma, proper refresh rate, etc.
[21:48] <graingert> setuid, you set that in the monitor prefs in the gui
[21:48] <yofel> well, I do need to set something for nvidia, but nouveau works ok without one
[21:48] <setuid> http://pastebin.com/JN3rW00E
[21:49] <graingert> after disabling nvidia-glx-*
[21:49] <graingert> can I kill x and start it again?
[21:49] <graingert> or should I reboot?
[21:49] <yofel> nvidia-glx-* is deprecated
[21:50] <yofel> the packages are called nvidia-96 nvidia-173 and nvidia-current
[21:50] <yofel> for nouveau you'll have to reboot
[21:50] <graingert> after disabling nvidia-[0-9]*
[21:50] <graingert> shall I try it and see what happens?
[21:50] <graingert> and then reboot?
[21:52] <yofel> sure
[21:53] <bjsnider> his computer is going to explode
[21:54] <yofel> it's always fun to blow things up
[21:56] <Daekdroom> Did anyone talk about blowing up?
[21:56] <Daekdroom> Oh. A computer. No biggie.
[22:07] <setuid> hrm, so that didn't work
[22:08] <setuid> So I installed the nouveau bits, configured X to use it, and it has no X
[22:11] <yofel> does it work without xorg.conf?
[22:13] <setuid> just a sec, removing those newer kernels so it boots the older one I need by default
[22:14] <graingert> okay, that's broken it
[22:15] <setuid> graingert, monitor prefs in the gui does not affect X -prior to login-
[22:15] <setuid> Those prefs don't seem to "stick" either, have to change them every time you log in, kind of a pain... same with font subpixel rendering
[22:15] <graingert> I am getting conflicting fb hw usage nouveaufb vs VESA VGA
[22:15] <graingert> and then I get a blank screen with some graphical artifacts
[22:15] <graingert> that change when I move the mouse
[22:16] <setuid> HWCursor
[22:16] <graingert> okay
[22:16] <yofel> ouch, did you change something in the framebuffer settings?
[22:16] <graingert> nope
[22:16] <graingert> just removed nvidia drivers in jocky
[22:17] <yofel> then it's probably grub settings that don't work
[22:17] <graingert> which removes nvidia-173 and the xorg.conf
[22:17] <graingert> does nvidia mess with grub
[22:17] <graingert> it's default grub
[22:17] <graingert> I have tried recovery mode
[22:17] <graingert> and it still does this
[22:17] <yofel> try to put GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD_LINUX=text in /etc/default/grub, run update-grub and see if it helps
[22:17]  * setuid uses: 
[22:17] <setuid> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash elevator=noop noinotify noonotify noatime norelatime maxcpus=2 nomodeset video=uvesafb:mode_option=1920x1200-24,mtrr=3"
[22:18] <setuid> and: uvesafb mode_option=1920x1200-24 mtrr=3
[22:18] <setuid> in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
[22:18] <graingert> yeah can't do that becuase it won't boot
[22:18] <yofel> well, nomodeset will break nouveau
[22:18] <graingert> but I can set gfx playload = test
[22:18] <yofel> text, not test
[22:18] <graingert> text*
[22:19] <graingert> I need to be able to set this from GRUB
[22:19] <graingert> as I can't boot
[22:19]  * setuid rips everything out that has to do with colored pixels... and starts from scratch 
[22:19] <yofel> yeah, then just set gfx_payload in the grub editor
[22:19] <graingert> okay I'll try recovery mode with that then
[22:19] <graingert> brrb
[22:21] <setuid> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 450 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[22:22] <yofel> o.O
[22:22] <yofel> that doesn't seem right
[22:22] <setuid> Going back down to basics, < 100 packages, just enough to boot and log in and give me a shell and an editor
[22:22] <yofel> ah
[22:22] <setuid> then I'll start from scratch, installing everything one by one
[22:22] <setuid> Too much broken in Natty right now
[22:23]  * setuid ponders going back to Lucid, things worked there
[22:27] <NixGeek> Since natty narwal is going to use unity, instead of gnome, will there be a new ubuntu called gubuntu, with gnome as the desktop enviroment, like we have xubuntu for xfce and kubuntu for KDE?
[22:28] <graingert> nope still dead
[22:32] <coz_> NixGeek,   actually   you can use gnome with natty   you just have to change sessions to   either  classic gnome desktop or  classic gnome desktop ( no effect)
[22:33] <coz_> NixGeek,   I dont use Unity only gnome desktop  ( no effect)
[22:33] <setuid> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 234 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[22:33] <setuid> whee... more comes out
[22:33] <Daekdroom> That is some serious breakage.
[22:33] <setuid> ayep
[22:34] <setuid> All of X, gnome, kde, and supporting libs
[23:23] <graingert> heya
[23:24] <graingert> just to let you know I am back on nvidia_173
[23:24] <graingert> and it works, but I won't be able to upgrade
[23:24] <graingert> *cry*
[23:24] <graingert> how can I get notified when it is safe to upgrade?
[23:33] <setuid> graingert, how did you get it back?
[23:33]  * setuid is gutting his natty
[23:33] <graingert> well I still have the old xorg stackl
[23:33] <graingert> I user nouveau.modeset=0
[23:33] <graingert> and then I used jockey-test --enable="nvidia_173"
[23:33] <setuid> graingert, what does this report: dpkg --get-selections | wc -l
[23:33] <graingert> and then I used jockey-test --enable="xorg:nvidia_173"
[23:34] <graingert> 2022
[23:35] <setuid> wow
[23:35] <setuid> I got 1,206
[23:36] <graingert> I have some stuff installed
[23:36] <graingert> :p
[23:36] <graingert> eclipse media tomb etc
[23:37] <setuid> I ripped out everything, still ripping out more... down to 1,201 now
[23:37] <setuid> I'm going back to kernel + shell + init tools, and not much else
[23:38] <carbonunit> hi
[23:39] <carbonunit> I have alpha 1 and get a blinking cursor on the top left when I try to run the CD
[23:39] <carbonunit> was wondering why this would be?
[23:40] <setuid> carbonunit, burned the cd wrong?
[23:40] <carbonunit> LOL
[23:40] <carbonunit> no
[23:41] <carbonunit> thanks though
[23:41] <carbonunit> next?
[23:41] <graingert> not even boot options?
[23:41] <carbonunit> Nope
[23:41] <graingert> does the iso even fit on a cd?
[23:41] <carbonunit> i have burned a CD
[23:41] <graingert> ISO > CD
[23:41] <carbonunit> and made a bootable usb stick too
[23:42] <graingert> hmm
[23:42] <graingert> anyone know if you can get ubuntu live cd to be more verbose
[23:42] <carbonunit> are they still having issues with nvidia systems?
[23:42] <carbonunit> that
[23:42] <setuid> graingert, opton F6
[23:42] <graingert> nvidia hasn't even started
[23:42] <genii-around> Is anyone else getting firefox freezing with the test pilot script? eg: Script: resource://testpilot/modules/experiment_data_store.js:153
[23:42] <graingert> at that point
[23:42] <graingert> genii-around, ah, yes me to
[23:43] <graingert> too*
[23:43] <graingert> uninstalling that addon now
[23:43] <genii-around> graingert: OK, thanks
[23:43] <carbonunit> I get the boot with the purple background and the keyboard on the bottom
[23:43] <carbonunit> and then a black screen with a blinking cursor
[23:44] <graingert> I think you need to press stuff to get things to happen
[23:44] <graingert> ie press kbd and you get the boot mgr
[23:45] <carbonunit> i take it you mean the keys kbd
[23:46] <graingert> carbonunit, turning the kbd over and pressing the kbd would work also
[23:46] <setuid> heheh
[23:47] <carbonunit> be nice to me :0)
[23:47]  * setuid is down to 1,190 packages