[04:46] <superfly> morning everyone ;-)
[05:37] <superfly> cocooncrash: this sounds a little FUDy to me... http://codahale.com/how-to-safely-store-a-password/
[06:15] <sakhi> morning superfly 
[06:36] <superfly> morning sakhi!
[06:46] <superfly> inetpro: that blog post is more FUD than fact... sure it takes longer, but that doesn't make it any safer
[06:46] <superfly> just longer to crach
[06:46] <superfly> *crack
[06:47]  * inetpro that were my thoughts as well
[06:48] <inetpro> superfly: its interesting nevertheless
[07:16] <cocooncrash> superfly: It's true
[07:16] <cocooncrash> Password hashing should be slow.
[07:17] <cocooncrash> (Nimbula uses bcrypt ;-) )
[07:20] <cocooncrash> Maaz: 62**8
[07:20] <Maaz> cocooncrash: 218340105584896
[07:20] <cocooncrash> Maaz: 218340105584896/700000000/3600
[07:20] <Maaz> cocooncrash: 86.6428990416
[07:22] <cocooncrash> Just over 3 days to bruteforce an 8 character alphunumeric password hashed with MD5 using 4 GPUs.
[07:42] <cocooncrash> s/MD5/SHA1/
[07:43] <cocooncrash> (See also scrypt, which is designed to protect against hardware attacks by forcing more memory to be used.)
[07:43] <cocooncrash> http://www.tarsnap.com/scrypt.html
[07:46] <superfly> cocooncrash: but it doesn't make it more difficult to hack, just slower
[07:46] <cocooncrash> http://chargen.matasano.com/chargen/2007/9/7/enough-with-the-rainbow-tables-what-you-need-to-know-about-s.html
[07:46] <cocooncrash> superfly: Which is the whole point
[07:46] <cocooncrash> Days is feasible, centuries is not.
[07:50] <cocooncrash> Maaz: 86.6428990416 * 1000 / 24
[07:50] <Maaz> cocooncrash: 3610.1207934
[07:50] <cocooncrash> If you use a hash function 1000 times slower than SHA1, then it'll take abotu 10 years to bruteforce an 8 character password.
[07:52] <superfly> cocooncrash: like I said, slower doesn't mean safer... it's a side effect that the person will probably give up, but I wouldn't call that "safe"
[07:53] <cocooncrash> But if you change your password once a year, it becomes highly unlikely that it'll be bruteforce if the expected time is 5 years
[07:54] <cocooncrash> If the expected time is a day or two it becomes very possible
[07:55] <cocooncrash> superfly: All cryptography is based on the premise that it is not feasible to bruteforce
[07:56] <tumbleweed> it's also pretty safe to say anything you encrypt today can be trivially decrypted in the future
[07:56] <cocooncrash> If you use bcrypt with a 100ms hashing time, the expected time becomes centuries.
[07:57] <cocooncrash> Maaz: 218340105584896 / 10 / 50000 / 4 / 3600 / 24
[07:57] <Maaz> cocooncrash: 1263.54227769
[07:59] <cocooncrash> 3 years to bruteforce an 8 character password with 100ms bcrypt hashing using the whole of EC2.
[07:59] <Tonberry> damn
[07:59] <cocooncrash> Maaz: 62**10 / 10 / 50000 / 4 / 3600 / 24 / 365
[07:59] <Maaz> cocooncrash: 13307.0041519
[08:00] <cocooncrash> 13 centuries for a 10 character passsword.
[08:32]  * drubin likes this conversation
[08:33] <drubin> superfly: Where did that link just randomly come from?
[08:57] <superfly> drubin: you mean where did I find it?
[08:58] <drubin> superfly: Well you kinda popped out of the blue and pasted that link to cocooncrash 
[08:58] <drubin> jut wanted to know context (although it was interesting0
[08:59] <superfly> drubin: just that I tihnk cocooncrash has recommended bcrypt to be before
[08:59] <tumbleweed> marcog: your xdg-open bug got accepted into maverick-proposed. Care to test it?
[08:59] <marcog> tumbleweed: i've starred it, will test
[10:33] <queery> Ubuntu hour Sunday 12pm Gino's, Stellenbosch
[10:46] <queery> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/666/detail/
[11:19] <inetpro> drubin: I tweeted it but seriously, don't ask me where I got it, I can't remember
[11:29] <drubin> inetpro: tweeted what?
[11:29] <inetpro> 02/02 10:33:06 <drubin> superfly: Where did that link just randomly come from?
[11:31] <drubin> inetpro: Ah hehe
[11:58] <tumbleweed> marcog: nice, someone else dealt with it
[11:59] <marcog> tumbleweed: i assume that means i don't have to do anything?
[11:59] <tumbleweed> indeed
[12:00] <marcog> obviously it was quite the me too bug
[12:00] <tumbleweed> marcog: I suffered that bug for ages :)
[12:01] <marcog> with chrome?
[12:01] <tumbleweed> chromium
[12:01] <marcog> same thing :P
[12:01] <tumbleweed> not at all
[12:01] <marcog> same thing
[12:01] <tumbleweed> nobody even knows what's in chrome
[12:03] <froztbyte> Maaz: reverse karmaladder
[12:03] <Maaz> froztbyte: 0: ubuntuforums (-3), 1: tomtom (-2), 2: empathy (-2), 3: hal (-1), 4: virtualbox (-1), 5: KnightRider (-1), 6: car services (-1), 7: kde (-1), 8: ucf (-1), 9: virtualenv (-1), 10: drl (-1), 11: wordpress (-1), 12: Nokia (-1), 13: opendns (-1), 14: digests (-1), 15: kspread (-1), 16: --. --- --- -..   -- --- .-. -. .. -. (-1), 17: Nepomuk (-1), 18: Virtuoso (-1), 19: Strigi (-1), 20: KDE's Desktop Search (-1), 21: sars (0), 22: w
[12:03] <tumbleweed> seems like we are rather positive around here
[12:03] <froztbyte> Maaz: karmaladder
[12:03] <Maaz> froztbyte: 0: superfly (20), 1: cocooncrash (18), 2: maiatoday (11), 3: drubin (10), 4: tumbleweed (10), 5: Vhata (8), 6: morgs (7), 7: confluency (6), 8: highvoltage (6), 9: Kilos (6), 10: ubuntu-za (2), 11: nuvolari (2), 12: russell (2), 13: Symmetria (2), 14: |3o|3 (2), 15: yusuf (2), 16: youtube-dl (1), 17: ScorpKing (1), 18: Web Africa (1), 19: Lenovo (1), 20: fnb (1), 21: ibid devs (1), 22: Hodgestar (1), 23: Android (1), 24: doghouse
[12:04] <linuxboy> Maaz: morsecode --. --- --- -..   -- --- .-. -. .. -.
[12:04] <Maaz> linuxboy: Encodes as -.-. --- -.. .   -....- -....- .-.-.-   -....- -....- -....-   -....- -....- -....-   -....- .-.-.- .-.-.-       -....- -....-   -....- -....- -....-   .-.-.- -....- .-.-.-   -....- .-.-.-   .-.-.- .-.-.-   -....- .-.-.-
[12:04] <tumbleweed> Maaz: morse --. --- --- -..   -- --- .-. -. .. -.
[12:04] <Maaz> tumbleweed: Decodes as GOOD  MORNIN
[12:06] <superfly> how did I get up there?
[12:07] <tumbleweed> Maaz: superfly ftw [[ clearly ]]
[15:07] <queery>      bye
[15:54] <superfly> cocooncrash: that grub error i'm getting is actually "out of disk"
[15:54] <cocooncrash> superfly: Hrm
[15:55] <cocooncrash> return grub_error (GRUB_ERR_OUT_OF_RANGE, "%s out of disk", disk->name);
[15:56] <cocooncrash> superfly: Looks like a geometry issue actually
[15:56] <superfly> nope, no disk name, just "error: out of disk."
[15:56] <cocooncrash> Oh
[15:57] <cocooncrash> So that seems to happen if it's got a sector number that lies outside the disk
[15:57] <superfly> I booted into a live cd and did a grub-install, so now I get "GRUB loading." and then "error: out of disk.", and then the grub rescue prompt
[15:57] <cocooncrash> Only thing I can think of is that the partition table has a partition extending past the last sector
[16:00] <nuvolari> ooh :> I have karma :D
[16:00] <nuvolari> ok, home time
[16:00] <cocooncrash> gtg
[16:04] <Kilos> evening superfly and every   one else
[16:04] <Kilos> we got data again yoohoo
[16:05] <Kilos> used gumtree for the first time
[16:06] <Kilos> lo bmg505  how do you do
[16:06] <superfly> Kilos: I got ADSL, uncapped, no more data worries for me
[16:06] <Kilos> hehe that so lekker superfly 
[16:06] <Kilos> is it darem faster
[16:07] <superfly> I already downloaded like 9 or 10 gigs last night
[16:07] <superfly> Kilos: no, it's about the same speed as my HSDPA
[16:07] <Kilos> aw
[16:07] <Kilos> mind you with ians modem here on hsdpa it was fast at times
[16:08] <Kilos> much better than a cell
[16:08] <superfly> Kilos: ja, I had the super fast modem
[16:09] <Kilos> oh well, at least you rid of the data cap hassle
[16:09] <Kilos> and the costs of course
[16:09] <superfly> when I get that sorted out, yes
[16:09] <superfly> for this month (and probably next) I'm paying double :-(
[16:10] <Kilos> eish
[16:11] <Kilos> at least now I can do a clean install here and get rid of that bug
[16:12] <superfly> ah, cocooncrash... "19457 cylinders" ... "19267 - 19458"
[16:12] <superfly> that doesn't look quite right
[16:22] <cocooncrash> That looks a bit dubious
[16:22] <cocooncrash> Try to work in sectors though, fdisk should set CHS sensibly
[16:23] <cocooncrash> fdisk -u
[16:43] <superfly> yeah, i've done that - still getting that error
[16:44] <neil__> hey all nlsthzn here *waves*... how to upgrade from Kubuntu 10.10 to 11.04... ubuntu is easy, I am finding Kubuntu a bitt less so 
[16:45] <superfly> neil__: how are you doing it? via alternate CD or via apt-get and friends?
[16:46] <neil__> want to use apt-get or what ever means to do it via the net... ubuntu I would just run update-manager -d -c but in Kubuntu I am stumped :/
[16:48] <bmg505> 10 months and 23 days to xmas :)
[16:48] <bmg505> hello south africa
[16:49] <neil__> so long to wait for x-mas QQ
[16:52] <neil__>  just run do-release-upgrade and added a -d and something is happening... cheers
[16:52] <Kilos> hi neil__  bmg505 
[16:52] <Kilos> bmg505, where are you
[16:53] <neil__> Kilos: hey uncle :)
[16:53] <Kilos> hehe
[16:55] <neil__> thanks... IRC server going down for maintenance... catch u guys later
[16:55] <Kilos> cheers neil__ 
[17:31] <superfly> cocooncrash: I just did a complete reinstall, and I still get that stupid error
[17:31] <superfly> recreated the partitions, everything
[17:46] <Morganvd> hey folks
[17:50] <superfly> ohi
[17:50]  * superfly restarts to experience KDE 4.6
[18:00] <Morganvd> lol
[18:01] <Morganvd> superfly: you having issues
[18:02]  * Symmetria contemplates doing remote medical procedures over south african internet
[18:02]  * Symmetria is scared at the very thought
[18:03] <Symmetria> "Sorry about the 3 dead people, the internet went down"
[18:03] <Kilos> hehe
[18:03] <Symmetria> "Please do nawt be fishing the med today, if you cut SEMEWE people gonna dieeeee"
[19:22] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:34] <cocooncrash> superfly: Oh bleh
[19:34] <superfly> indeed
[19:36] <cocooncrash> Try using grub-legacy?
[22:00] <cocooncrash> fp