[07:43] <dpm> good morning all
[07:44] <happyaron> dpm: morning!
[07:46] <happyaron> dpm: could you have a look at bug 659280?
[07:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 659280 in poppler-data (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "subject: Remove the string tags include Bitstream Vera、DejaVu inside in the setting file /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-xy.conf where xy represents cn, hk, mo, sg and tw individually. (affects: 2) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659280
[07:48] <dpm> hi happyaron, good morning. Just a few minutes, I need to reboot. brb...
[07:50] <happyaron> :)
[07:58] <dpm> good morning again :)
[07:58] <happyaron> :)
[07:59] <happyaron> the bug I mentioned just now is bug 659280
[07:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 659280 in poppler-data (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "subject: Remove the string tags include Bitstream Vera、DejaVu inside in the setting file /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-xy.conf where xy represents cn, hk, mo, sg and tw individually. (affects: 2) (heat: 38)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659280
[08:00] <dpm> reading...
[08:02] <dpm> happyaron, so as far as I understand, there is no agreement in how to fix this?
[08:02] <happyaron> no
[08:03] <happyaron> there are two opinions: fix it by changing fontconfig configuration so PDFs can work, but typefaces would be uglier; wait to fix it in poppler-data and all other applications that does not work as expected.
[08:05] <dpm> happyaron, the thing is that we don't have a font expert anymore, and I'm not knowledgeable enough to propose a solution in this case. Right now, it is a bit difficult to follow with all the opinions. Do you think you could add a comment with a summary of the two alternatives, with pros and cons of each one?
[08:06] <happyaron> dpm: I've tried to do that, but in fact the bug reporters are also arguing about which to choose on their forum.
[08:07] <happyaron> you can only see few people write on that bug report because he's just a translator who summarize things on their forum.
[08:08] <happyaron> I tried to read their forum posts, and they do not have an agreement either. personally I prefer to fix the problem in poppler-data, but unfortunately I cannot reproduce the bug in Debian so not sure whether I can forward it to Debian.
[08:10] <dpm> happyaron, still, I think you have a good overview on this. If someone who either does not speak Chinese or doesn't follow those forums would definitely get confused with all the current comments. I'm not saying it's the solution, but I think such a comment with a summary would help
[08:12] <happyaron> dpm: okay, I'll make the summary. But I think it's really an issue to be fixed. As far as I know most research papers in Chinese cannot be rendered correctly due to this issue, either zh_CN or zh_TW. I don't know the situation about Japanese and Korean.
[08:13] <dpm> happyaron, is freeflying aware of this bug?
[08:13] <happyaron> the special case in those research papers is they don't embed Chinese fonts to the PDF file, and our current settings cannot handle it at all.
[08:13] <happyaron> dpm: not sure
[08:14] <dpm> I'll point it to him, but as I say, right now all the comments make it a bit confusing (and the title of the bug, especially). The clearer it is, the easier it will be for someone to fix
[08:16] <dpm> You've got a good understanding of the bug, do you think you could come up with a better title, e.g. "Cannot render PDFs without embedded fonts in Chinese and other languages" or something along the lines?
[08:17] <happyaron> I'll try to make it clear for people who don't speak Chinese, but I failed to figure out why Debian works but Ubuntu does not (with same appearance on users experience, but not the same configuration files)
[08:17] <happyaron> OK, let me try
[08:19] <dpm> thanks happyaron
[09:28] <happyaron> dpm: done
[09:28] <happyaron> We'd move one to seek an expert to solve the problem.
[09:29] <dpm> thanks happyaron, it looks much better now
[09:29] <dpm> I'll point freeflying to it too
[09:29] <happyaron> :)
[10:57] <dpm> hi TLE, how are you doing? I sent you an e-mail about the language packs spec, have you had the chance to look at it?
[11:32] <happyaron> dpm: personally I think we'd find someone knows about poppler and poppler-data
[11:46] <dpm> happyaron, I'll look into it, but I cannot promise anything. I'm not familiar with it and I don't know anyone who is
[11:47] <dpm> you might want to ask around in #ubuntu-devel or in #ubuntu-desktop
[11:53] <happyaron> thanks
[11:56] <TLE> dpm: hallo
[11:57] <dpm> hey :)
[11:57] <TLE> yes I saw your email
[11:57] <TLE> I agree with you and it should just be done
[11:58] <TLE> I can handle it myself and I think I should have time to do it tomorrow
[11:58] <dpm> that sounds excellent, thanks
[11:58] <TLE> np
[12:00] <dpm> I'm looking forward to announcing this, it will address an important issue that hadn't been handled properly for a looong time.
[12:00] <dpm> great work
[12:01] <andrejz> @dpm: what is this about?
[12:06] <dpm> andrejz, the language pack updates policy spec Kenneth has been working on -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-training-sessions
[12:12] <andrejz> cool
[12:15] <dpm> :)
[14:49] <dpm> hi everyone, Translations training session starting in ~10 minutes, feel free to join in!
[15:01] <dpm_> Hi everyone!
[15:01] <dpm_> Welcome to the first ever Translations Training Session :)
[15:01] <dpm_> we'll wait a couple of minutes to see if there are any late-comers
[15:05] <dpm_> ok, let's get started
[15:05] <dpm_> Let's see who's here, any new translators around?
[15:07] <dpm_> ok, first of all, a few words about these sessions.
[15:07] <dpm_> Here's how they will work:
[15:07] <dpm_> We'll be running IRC sessions every two weeks, covering different topics on each one, all related to different aspects of translating Ubuntu.
[15:08] <dpm_> The main goal is to help new translators giving them a quickstart on how to start contributing,
[15:08] <dpm_> but we will also cover topics that can be of interest to more experienced translators or to people starting to create a new translation team.
[15:09] <dpm_> As such, the range of topics will be broad. We've got a bunch of suggestions here:
[15:09] <dpm_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Training/Suggestions
[15:09] <dpm_> and I encourage you to add your own suggestions on that page,
[15:09] <dpm_> so we can make this more personal and tailor the sessions to what you think it is important to know as a translator.
[15:10] <dpm_> When we run out of topics, we can repeat them again, as there are always new translators willing to learn :)
[15:10] <dpm_> Eventually, I'd like the resources created during these sessions (translations training projects in Launchpad, session logs, session outlines) to be useful for each local translation team
[15:11] <dpm_> to reuse them to run sessions in their language
[15:11] <dpm_> But enough introductory talk. Let's get started.
[15:12] <dpm_> * What we'll learn today: we'll focus on describing and using the Launchpad Translations web interface, which is what you'll be using to translate Ubuntu
[15:12] <dpm_>  
[15:12] <dpm_> The Translations Web UI
[15:12] <dpm_> -----------------------
[15:12] <dpm_> Generally, you'd be going to http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu to translate your favourite distro
[15:13] <dpm_> But today we'll be using a kind of a playground project in Launchpad,
[15:13] <dpm_> so you can start playing around with translations and submitting data without the worry of sending or overwriting real translation data.
[15:14] <dpm_> Here it is:
[15:14] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this
[15:14] <dpm_> The Translations Training project
[15:14] <dpm_> So if you all go there, we'll first start looking at all of the elements of the UI.
[15:15] <dpm_> Go and click on the name of your language in that page, which should take you to the translatable messages.
[15:15] <dpm_> For example in my case (Catalan), it takes me to:
[15:15] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/+translate
[15:16] <dpm_> Once you are there, click at the little magnifier icon on the far left of the first translatable message.
[15:16] <dpm_> It's the icon with a plus sign (+) on it.
[15:17] <dpm_> If you cannot find it, don't worry, you can just go to the Catalan version here:
[15:17] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/1/+translate
[15:17] <dpm_> Ok, so we're all set now, and we can start having a look at all the UI elements.
[15:18] <dpm_> Here are the most important:
[15:18] <dpm_> 1. The original English message.
[15:18] <dpm_> That is the message on top, which says "My first ever translation".
[15:19] <dpm_> This is the message you'll have to translate into your language.
[15:19] <dpm_> We'll be calling this the original message or string (as in a string of characters),
[15:19] <dpm_> and it will be always in English.
[15:19] <dpm_> So you will in principle only need knowledge of English and the language you are trying to translate into
[15:20] <dpm_> 2. The translators comment.
[15:20] <dpm_> You'll see this text right below the original English message, next to a small info {i} icon.
[15:20] <dpm_> These are messages that are written by developers to give additional information to translators as to the context of the message.
[15:21] <dpm_> These are really useful to provide accurate translations, especially when the original text can be ambiguous
[15:21] <dpm_> 3. Current translation.
[15:21] <dpm_> Shown below the translators comment, this shows the current translation, if any, into the local language.
[15:21] <dpm_> If there isn't any translation, it will show the text "(no translation yet)".
[15:22] <dpm_> You'll see it's got a radio button, so that you can select the appropriate translation in case there are already translation suggestions (more on this below).
[15:22] <dpm_> 4. Translation suggestions.
[15:23] <dpm_> Right below the current translation, there is a space with radio buttons where translation suggestions (if any) are shown.
[15:24] <dpm_> You will not see this if there haven't been any suggestions yet.
[15:24] <dpm_> Translation suggestions are either translations that contributors have provided directly, or that have been found in other projects in Launchpad.
[15:24] <dpm_> Launchpad is quite clever on this, and if it finds the same original message in any of the hosted projects, it will show it as a suggestion automatically for you.
[15:25] <dpm_> meaning it will show the translations for the original message as a suggestion
[15:26] <dpm_> Suggestions are quite a cool feature: they allow you to basically do "point and click" translation and save you a lot of work.
[15:26] <dpm_> They will also allow you to ensure the quality of translations through review (more on this below).
[15:27] <dpm_> You can also dismiss suggestions by ticking the "Dismiss all suggestions above" checkbox and committing the change by pressing the "Save & Continue" button.
[15:27] <dpm_> 5. New translation.
[15:27] <dpm_> This is the interesting part.
[15:28] <dpm_> On this textbox you'll be able to submit your translations, which can be direct ones or suggestions - depending on the permissions of the translatable project and on your team membership.
[15:28] <dpm_> It might show an expander at the end of it, which you can click in case you need to expand the text box to provide a longer translation
[15:28] <dpm_> 6. Needs Review checkbox.
[15:29] <dpm_> Right below the "New translation" text field, you'll see the "Someone should review this translation" checkbox.
[15:29] <dpm_> You can use this to let reviewers look at your translations before they are accepted.
[15:29] <dpm_> This is generally recommended for translation quality, as the reviewers will spot mistakes, typos and inconsistencies, and will help you getting translations right before they are released to users.
[15:30] <dpm_> You will learn a lot from reviews, so I encourage you to get your translations reviewed by contacting the team responsible for your language
[15:30] <dpm_> or to do reviews yourself
[15:31] <dpm_> Ticking this checkbox and pressing the "Save & Continue" button will make your translations be submitted as suggestions, and applies only if you are already a member of a translation team.
[15:31] <dpm_> If you are not yet, your translations will be submitted as suggestions always, without the need to tick that box.
[15:32] <dpm_> As an example, you can see several suggestions, not yet reviewed and accepted, here:
[15:32] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/1/+translate
[15:33] <dpm_> And here you can see a suggestion which has been reviewed and accepted:
[15:33] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training/trunk/+pots/translate-this/ca/2/+translate
[15:33] <dpm_> Notice how Launchpad properly credits both the translator and the reviewer.
[15:34] <dpm_> 7. Source code reference.
[15:34] <dpm_> Below the Needs Review checkbox you'll see a smaller text telling you where in the code for the program the string appears.
[15:35] <dpm_> You shouldn't worry much about that, but in some cases,
[15:35] <dpm_> this can be really useful to find out which file the string belongs to, or it might give you a hint to what kind of translation that is, depending on the type of file
[15:35] <dpm_> 8. Zoom.
[15:35] <dpm_> You've used this already, and it's the magnifier icon with the plus (+) or minus (-)
[15:36] <dpm_> on the far left of the translatable message
[15:36] <dpm_> If you click on it, it will let you switch between the single message view or all translatable messages view.
[15:36] <dpm_> Useful to concentrate on a difficult translation or to get the URL to a particular message you want to point out to (i.e. for review or to show someone a particular translation).
[15:37] <dpm_> 9. Copy text.
[15:37] <dpm_> That's the arrow icon right to the left of the translatable message.
[15:37] <dpm_> It provides a shortcut to be able to just copying the original text into the translation field
[15:37] <dpm_> without having to retype the message
[15:38] <dpm_> This comes in quite handy when the translation is actually the same as the original
[15:39] <dpm_> i.e. it is actually not translated. This happens in the names of programs, acronyms, names of programming languages, etc.
[15:39] <dpm_> 10. "Save & Continue" button.
[15:39] <dpm_> That is a key part of the UI.
[15:39] <dpm_> The moment you press it, your translations or suggestions are saved in the Launchpad database.
[15:39] <dpm_> This allows you coming back at a later time to review them and they will be right there where you left them last time.
[15:40] <dpm_> You don't have to complete all translations in a page
[15:40] <dpm_> you can press it at any time and it will save only the ones you've made.
[15:41] <dpm_> Ok, so that has covered the most important UI elements of the Launchpad Translations interface.
[15:41] <dpm_> I tried to detail each one of them, but you'll see that they are quite intuitive and it will just take you a couple of minutes to get used to them.
[15:41] <dpm_> -> Any questions so far?
[15:42] <dpm_> ok, let's move on
[15:42] <dpm_> Doing Your First Translations
[15:42] <dpm_> -----------------------------
[15:42] <dpm_> So now for the fun part.
[15:42] <dpm_> The translations-training project is thought for you to experiment with translations and with all the UI elements.
[15:43] <dpm_> It's thought of as a hands-on tutorial, as the translator comments will tell you more about the particular translation
[15:43] <dpm_> and help you learn more about elements of translation.
[15:43] <dpm_> It has just a few translatable messages now, but we'll be adding more in future sessions.
[15:44] <dpm_> If you are not there yet, you can go to
[15:44] <dpm_> https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training
[15:44] <dpm_> Then click on your language and start submitting your translation suggestions.
[15:44] <dpm_> Right now the project is set up with Restricted permissions, in the same way Ubuntu is.
[15:45] <dpm_> This means that you can only submit direct translations if you are a member of an approved translation team,
[15:45] <dpm_> but you'll always be able to submit translation suggestions.
[15:45] <dpm_> If, after you've tried submitting suggestions you want to see what it's like submitting direct translations, do let me know and I can change the permissions temporarily to Open, so that anyone can do it.
[15:46] <dpm_> So go and play with this project, and do come back if you've got any questions
[15:46] <dpm_> Everything clear so far?
[15:48] <dpm_> So if there aren't any questions, we'll wrap up and leave it here for today, and we'll continue in two weeks time in the next session
[15:48] <dpm_>  
[15:48] <dpm_> Summary
[15:48] <dpm_> -------
[15:48] <dpm_> So today we learnt about:
[15:48] <dpm_> * The Launchpad Translations UI elements and how to use them
[15:49] <dpm_> * Submitting translations and suggestions through the Translations Training project in Launchpad: https://translations.launchpad.net/translations-training
[15:50] <dpm_> Next session we can look at the rest of UI elements and to more advanced topics, for example translations workflow: how translation teams work
[15:50] <dpm_> If you've got any questions, feel free to ping me any time on #ubuntu-translators
[15:51] <dpm_> And thanks for reading! :-)