[12:00] <ochosi> charlie-tca: hiya. just read the release notes. they're a bit brief (no experience as to how long they should be), if you want me to add/propose some stuff let me know
[12:00] <ochosi> charlie-tca: also about the known issues: the logout and reboot really doesn't work? i thought that was patched already by mr_pouit (at least for me it worked/works)
[12:07] <mr_pouit> ochosi: it's a new issues that came up yesterday or the day before (very recently). With the "session menu" plugin, it doesn't shutdown the livecd but returns to gdm. With the usual logout dialog, it works fine though.
[12:07] <mr_pouit> *issue
[12:07] <ochosi> oh i see
[12:08] <ochosi> haven't booted natty since two days ago or something
[12:08] <mr_pouit> I can only reproduce it on livecds with vbox
[12:09] <ochosi> hm, i can check again tonight when i'm @home
[12:09] <mr_pouit> "There is a bug in the "session-menu" plugin in Xfce4. To reboot or shutdown from VirtualBox, you must logout, then reboot or shutdown from GDM. (711571) "
[12:09] <mr_pouit> maybe you can suggest instead to use the application menu, I think it still works
[12:09] <ochosi> right :) i maybe overread the Vbox part a bit
[12:09] <mr_pouit> (I haven't rechcked anyway)
[12:10] <ochosi> sure, i'm rather open to what plugins we use in the top panel
[12:10] <ochosi> something we agreed upon was the orage plugin, i think all of us wanted that
[12:10] <ochosi> for the rest i kinda followed my intuition
[13:19] <mr_pouit> ah yeah, I need to check if a tz change is reflected on the panel
[13:19] <mr_pouit> (orage and clock plugins)
[13:20] <ochosi> right
[13:20] <ochosi> i considered showing the tz in the panel
[13:20] <ochosi> but it seemed over the top
[13:21] <ochosi> iirc it's shown in the tooltip
[13:23] <mr_pouit> and a tz change isn't reflected in orage, yay <3
[13:24] <ochosi> hmm
[13:25] <ochosi> considering it's the only calendar app for xfce it's really a bit suck-ish
[13:38] <mr_pouit> sigh, I'll file a bug later then
[13:38] <ochosi> :/
[13:46] <ochosi> mr_pouit: who's the maintainer/dev of orage again?
[13:50] <charlie-tca> ochosi: we have to keep the notes as short and to the point as possible until , I think, the rc, when we publish our own release notes.
[13:51] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, makes sense. in that case i think it's well done
[13:52] <mr_pouit> ochosi: mmh, Juha Kotto (not sure of the spelling, check the about dialog)
[13:52] <charlie-tca> I was long winded for alpha1, got two sentences longer than the most of the others
[13:52] <ochosi> mr_pouit: right, but what's his (or her?) nick on irc
[13:54] <mr_pouit> he's not onirc afaik
[13:54] <charlie-tca> I tried to get the main things in, and not miss any
[14:31] <ochosi> charlie-tca: just read the release notes again, they really seem ok to me, well done
[14:31] <ochosi> not too verbose but all the important facts are there
[14:31] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[18:29] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
[18:30] <ochosi> charlie-tca: arr, i fear i'll have to leave shortly before that...
[18:30] <charlie-tca> ah
[18:30] <ochosi> charlie-tca: could you quickly link me to the agenda?
[18:30] <charlie-tca> any updates?
[18:31] <ochosi> then i can have a look whether there's anything i need/want to comment
[18:31] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings.
[18:31] <ochosi> hm, not much from my side
[18:31] <charlie-tca> okay, thanks
[18:31] <charlie-tca> big news: natty alpha2 will release,probably within an hour or so
[18:32] <ochosi> nice :)
[18:32] <charlie-tca> and I hear good things about the panels and colors, too!
[18:32] <ochosi> even better :)
[18:32] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, a quick summary for the meeting:
[18:33] <ochosi> i proposed (earlier already) to set some generic icons for default apps in xubuntu, here is a list, but it's not that *all* of the suggestions have to be accepted or denied, we can also select one or more we like
[18:33] <ochosi> http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:generic_app_icons
[18:33] <ochosi> it's just to start a discussion
[18:34] <charlie-tca> will do. thanks
[18:34] <ochosi> the app-finder really is problematic, because atm it looks the same as catfish (which does something completely different)
[18:34] <ochosi> the xfburn icon might go upstream
[18:34] <pleia2> charlie-tca: I am swamped at work today, no updates from me anyway
[18:34] <ochosi> but maybe not in time for natty
[18:34] <pleia2> re: meeting
[18:34] <charlie-tca> thanks, pleia2 
[18:35] <charlie-tca> ochosi: tango gives catfish an orange cat head
[18:35] <ochosi> we have set a todo-list for gmusicbrowser, you can also make that public: http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:natty_gmb
[18:35] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yes, that's catfish's original icon, tango doesn't include an icon for catfish, so it falls back to the original (which is shipped with the app)
[18:36] <charlie-tca> I think that is what it is, anyway. Not sure though
[18:36] <ochosi> charlie-tca: so removing catfish from the elementary icon theme is another option
[18:36] <ochosi> but i'd rather replace the icon
[18:36] <ochosi> i don't like the cat a lot ;)
[18:36] <charlie-tca> that or give one of them a new icon :-)
[18:36] <ochosi> but we can discuss it
[18:36] <ochosi> yeo
[18:37] <ochosi> i also want to propose to work on a new default color palette for the terminal
[18:37] <charlie-tca> got both lists. Will put them out
[18:37] <charlie-tca> something blue?
[18:37] <ochosi> i know white on black is traditional, but black on white is easier to read (imo) and integrates the scrollbars really nicely
[18:38] <ochosi> and i hope mr_pouit and me will manage to reset the grub bg-color to black
[18:38] <charlie-tca> I agree strongly. 
[18:38] <ochosi> instead of ubuntu-aubergine
[18:38] <ochosi> at least that would be one thing i'd prefer
[18:38] <charlie-tca> I can't use the black terminals, either
[18:39] <ochosi> ok, then that would be a good argument to change the palette to make the terminal more accessible
[18:39] <TheSheep> xubuntu: the only project that changes color palette every release
[18:39] <charlie-tca> we're young yet?
[18:39] <TheSheep> not anymore
[18:40] <charlie-tca> TheSheep: Ubuntu hasn't done bad changing colors on a continuous basis
[18:40] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: don't compare to the worst
[18:40] <charlie-tca> Now, depending on what install you do, you get aubergine or white in the terminals there
[18:40] <charlie-tca> lol
[18:41] <charlie-tca> hm, maybe we just have to try until we get colors everyone likes a lot?
[18:41] <TheSheep> that is not possible
[18:41] <ochosi> TheSheep: well, we're trying to improve the colors, feel free to vote against the change ;)
[18:42] <TheSheep> ochosi: sure, what is the goal of the improvement? what effect do you want to achieve and how do you measure it?
[18:42] <TheSheep> ochosi: I vote against changes for the change's sake
[18:42] <charlie-tca> lightweight, as in resources. Works easy for the user, as in intermediate
[18:42] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: I mean, what is wrong now that you want to change
[18:43] <TheSheep> charlie-tca: maybe just a few highlights
[18:43] <charlie-tca> I can not use dark panels, myself, due to visual disability
[18:43] <ochosi> TheSheep: are you specifically talking about terminal colors or the color change in general?
[18:43] <TheSheep> ochosi: in general
[18:44] <TheSheep> ochosi: like it is we are flailing blindly in the dark
[18:44] <TheSheep> personally I use a black terminal myself and think that any other color doesn't make any sense for a terminal
[18:44] <charlie-tca> I have not used the defaults for many releases, because I can not see the text/icons on dark anything
[18:44] <ochosi> TheSheep: i worked with the colors (too blue) from the last release for a while and noticed that they're not so well suited for everyday work, the comments ranged from "great" to "really bad"
[18:45] <TheSheep> I hve not used the defaults for many releases because I can't stand them changing all the time
[18:45] <ochosi> TheSheep: it was a very short span of time to work on the theme last time, this time i started early in the release
[18:45] <TheSheep> ochosi: what is bad in particular?
[18:45] <ochosi> TheSheep: the extreme blue (in bluebird)
[18:45] <TheSheep> ochosi: why is it bad?
[18:45] <ochosi> TheSheep: i'm sorry, i have to go pretty much now, can we continue tomorrow/another time?
[18:46] <TheSheep> ochosi: any time you want
[18:46] <ochosi> TheSheep: k, i'll ping you when i'm back and have time
[18:46] <TheSheep> ochosi: I just want to ask some questions that could hopefully let us focus, I don't know the answers myself
[18:46] <charlie-tca> We need those questions, too.
[18:46] <ochosi> TheSheep: sure, i'm happy to discuss all this, just one thing: why did you wait so long with this?
[18:47] <TheSheep> it's ok to say "I don't know" too!
[18:47]  * charlie-tca doesn't have the answers, either, as far as he knows
[18:47] <TheSheep> ochosi: I didn't wait
[18:47] <TheSheep> ochosi: I'm always open to discussion
[18:47] <TheSheep> ochosi: I just don't like to butt in
[18:47] <TheSheep> ochosi: I'm perfectly happy with waiting with it for the next release
[18:47] <ochosi> TheSheep: no, i thought since the theme and the color-switch was talked about already quite a while ago
[18:48] <TheSheep> ochosi: I didn't see that, or maybe I was busy at the time
[18:48] <TheSheep> ochosi: probably both
[18:48] <ochosi> ok, np, thanks for your input/questions anyway, let's continue when i'm back
[19:00] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting. Everyone is invited to attend.
[19:15] <mr_pouit> sorry, I just came back home
[19:15] <charlie-tca> it's okay. Any updates that I should back up for?
[19:16] <mr_pouit> no, 4.8.1 packages were the only important things
[19:19] <charlie-tca> Thanks!
[20:06] <micahg> mr_pouit: I'm a member of the Debian pkg-multimedia team, so I can get it updated there
[20:06] <mr_pouit> ah yes, so definitely better if it's you :P
[20:07]  * micahg can take another shot at using git :)
[20:07] <mr_pouit> micahg: but please get in touch with ochosi, he knows exactly which version is needed :)
[20:07] <mr_pouit> (in its ppa it's a native package though…)
[20:07] <micahg> mr_pouit: I see 1.1.6 in the PPA and that's what the watch file shows as well
[20:09] <micahg> ochosi: feel free to ping me when you're avaialble
[20:19] <charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : thanks 
[20:19] <micahg> charlie-tca: do you want me to keep bringing up Mozilla updates in the meeting?  It's Xubuntu only so far as they're the default apps
[20:19] <charlie-tca> sure, it keeps me and the rest up to date, even if we don't always get properly excited.
[20:20] <charlie-tca> It's really great when someone says "what is the latest on ..." and we have an answer!
[22:30] <charlie-tca> Natty Alpha2 officially released - Please see the notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview