[07:47] <TLE> good morning eveybody
[07:47] <TLE> love the new wiki theme, hadn't seen it before now
[08:01] <dpm> good morning all
[08:06] <TLE> good morning
[08:10] <dpm> good morning TLE :)
[08:27] <TLE> dpm: quick question
[08:28] <TLE> Back when we were making the first schedule I had a chat with pitti about timings, and back then he told that when the lang packs are built, they are supposed to be automatically uploaded to the PPA, but that it was broken at the time. Do you know if it has been fixed?
[08:29] <TLE> My reason for asking is that Lucid packages start build on Fridays, and therefore should be done and be automatically uploaded on saturdays. But if the automatic part does not work, and if pitti have as little desire to work on weekends as I have ;) then what
[08:30] <dpm> TLE, it has been fixed, afaik
[08:31] <TLE> great
[08:34] <TLE> ok, that would mean that 2 weeks testing for the final Lucid lang pack should start tomorrow, that may be to short notice, push it back a week?
[08:35] <dpm> yeah, perhaps. Let me remind myself of the schedule and check the status of the Lucid PPA...
[08:36] <dpm> TLE, and re: the day of upload, I'm not sure if we should worry too much when they are built, and simply use the same day to announce testing. The reason being the simplification of the schedule, and that at the beginning of each cycle we might have to change the days of the PPA builds, as the older releases get dropped from https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule and we make new way for the new release there. It would be great
[08:36] <dpm>  if we could find a way not to have to change the langpack release schedule everytime we change the day on https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[08:39] <TLE> dpm: ok, the "standard" scedule is, testing starts thurs, testing deadline on wed (+1 or 2 weeks) and released thurs (+1 or 2 weeks)
[08:39] <TLE> so then we will announce testing start this coming thursday and release 2 weeks after that
[08:42] <dpm> sounds good. Let me have a chat with pitti in a few minutes and then check out what it looks like timewise for the release team. I'll need to request the generation of a full language pack as well (for point releases we always need full langpacks, no deltas)
[08:42] <dpm> let me come back to you in a few minutes
[08:43] <TLE> ok
[08:57] <TLE> dpm: meeting for the next 1.5 hours, will check in later
[08:57] <dpm> TLE, ok, thanks for letting me know, I'll post the outcome of the chat with pitti here for you to read later
[08:57] <TLE> thanks
[09:13] <TLE> well skipping the first hour meeting, I'll get started on the natty schedule as well and work with the same weekdays, let me know as soon as you know something
[09:18] <dpm> TLE, ok, well if you join us on #ubuntu-desktop, pitti is just answering
[09:18] <TLE> will do
[09:23] <dpm> TLE, just to give you some context: I looked at the dates and saw that it was way too tight if we started next week. We always have to cater for the possibility that langpacks need to be regenerated if there is any breakage or if there is negative feedback on the testing. Thus here was my proposal:
 heya pitti, seeing that the 10.04.2 release is on the 17th Feb, we need to generate new Lucid language packs. Here's a proposal:
[09:23] <dpm>  As there isn't much time left if we want to have time to regenerate them if there is any problem,
[09:23] <dpm>  I think I should request a full export today.
[09:23] <dpm>  That would mean the PPA is built on Saturday and on Monday we can upload to -proposed and announce the testing period to translators
[09:23] <dpm>  Does that sound ok? If we want to give people ~a week to test them, what would be the latest day we could upload them to -updates?
[09:23] <dpm> --> cking (~king@cpc7-craw6-2-0-cust128.croy.cable.virginmedia.com) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
[09:23] <dpm>  virtuald (~vld@unaffiliated/virtuald) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
[09:23] <dpm>  seb128 (~seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <dpm> <-- jmarsden s'ha desconnectat (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
[09:24] <dpm>  dbarth__ s'ha desconnectat ()
[09:24] <dpm> --> dbarth__ (~dbarth@81-65-157-127.rev.numericable.fr) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <dpm>  sabdfl (~sabdfl@ubuntu/member/sabdfl) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
[09:24] <dpm>  jmarsden (~jmarsden@unaffiliated/jmarsden) ha entrat a #ubuntu-desktop
 hi dpm (sorry, talking to other folks ATM)
[09:24] <dpm>  dpm: that sounds good indeed, yes
[09:24] <TLE> thanks
[09:24] <dpm> That gives short notice for translators if they want to finish off any Lucid translation
[09:24] <dpm> as I'll be requesting the export today
[09:24] <dpm> but I prefer to be on the safe side
[09:25] <dpm> in any case, if I announce this early today, that would give people still some hours until 22:00 UTC to fix or finish any critical translations
[09:26] <TLE> yes
[09:36] <TLE> dpm: couldn't you just annouce last chance to correct and testings beginds monday today and the follow up with testing deadline later
[09:36] <dpm> TLE, yeah, that's what I was thinking
[09:36] <dpm> I'll do that now
[09:37] <dpm> so I'll send an e-mail explaining the situation and I'll send another one with an update after the release meeting
[09:38] <TLE> yes
[09:56] <TLE> dpm: now I really have to go to meeting, would you have a look at the draft for natty schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule and see if you can spot any problems, then I'll check in with you shortly before lunch of after
[09:57] <dpm> TLE, sounds good, just finishing off the announcement mail to translators and then I'll have a look. Thanks
[09:57] <TLE> great :: np
[09:57] <andrejz> hello dpm! I have a quesion for you :)
[09:58] <andrejz>  it's about a string in ubitquity debconf
[09:58] <andrejz> You can try ${RELEASE} without making any changes to your computer, directly from this ${MEDIUM}.
[09:58] <andrejz> Do you happen to know where i could change the $medium variable?
[09:59] <dpm> hi andrejz :)
[09:59] <dpm> what do you mean by "change the variable"?
[09:59] <andrejz> because in slovenian we add stuff to words. so with the current value of $medium this sentence can not be gramaticylly correct
[09:59] <andrejz> well it works like this
[09:59] <andrejz> i tried 11.04 today
[09:59] <andrejz> and the string in slovenian ends with "usb disk"
[10:00] <andrejz> but correct would be "usb diska"
[10:00] <dpm> oh, I see
[10:00] <andrejz> note the "a" in the end
[10:00] <dpm> yeah, I understand
[10:00] <andrejz> the problem is i cannot change the sentence in a way to sound correct with "usb disk"
[10:01] <andrejz> usually this is possible but in this case it's not
[10:01] <andrejz> in addition this is the first sentence a user sees when installing/trying ubuntu
[10:01] <dpm> unfortunately, there is no way to change the variable. What I would recommend you to do is to file a bug against ubiquity and explain the case, and why a variable canot be used in this case
[10:01] <andrejz> and first impression is very important
[10:02] <dpm> I'm sure it affects other languages as well
[10:03] <andrejz> ok
[10:03] <dpm> so yeah, that'd be my suggestion ^ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+filebug
[10:04] <dpm> you can add a task for the 'ubuntu-translations' project as well when you've done it
[10:13] <andrejz> dpm how can i add ubuntu translators to the bug? I don't see the link?
[10:14] <dpm> andrejz, can you give me the link to the bug? Then I can show you how to do it
[10:14] <andrejz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/712974
[10:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 712974 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Impossible to properly translate ubiquity due to usage of $medium variable (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[10:16] <dpm> andrejz, ok, to do this: first click on the "Also affects project" link on the bug page. Then, on the next screen:
[10:17] <dpm> click on the "Choose another project" link
[10:17] <dpm> Finally, on the "Project:" text field,
[10:17] <dpm> replace "ubiquity" by "ubuntu-translations"
[10:18] <dpm> Then press the "Continue" button and you're all set :)
[10:18] <andrejz> ok done thanks!
[10:18] <dpm> cool, thank you :)
[12:09] <dpm> TLE, ok, the Natty schedule looks great, I've got two pieces of feedback:
[12:10] <dpm> 1/ I'd make all the testing cycles 1 week, as we did in Maverick. For two reasons:
[12:11] <dpm> * Consistence. And it's easier to remember that language pack testing lasts a week, rather than having to consult if it's a 2 week or 1 week cycle
[12:12] <dpm> * The QA team have 1 week testing period for their milestones. It would be good to align with their QA practices
[12:14] <dpm> 2/ I realise that's something that should probably be changed in the template, but I think, rather than having the "1 week cycle" text in the first column it would be more helpful to have the week number, similarly to what's done in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucidReleaseSchedule (i.e. +2, +6, etc.)
[12:17] <dpm> 3/ Ok, that's more than two pieces of feedback, but it just dawned on me :) Perhaps we should rework the template to align more with the general w.u.c/${CODENAME}ReleaseSchedule layout. People are already familiar with it, and it would be easier to migrate the language pack schedule pages to the main schedule page if in the future we decide to move the langpack info to the main calendar. We can do this later, I think we should now concentrate on g
[12:17] <dpm> etting the Lucid and Natty schedules done
[13:07] <dpm> TLE, on 3/, I've gone ahead and done the changes, as a proposal of the alternative layout to match the main release schedule page. This way it's easier to see the effect. Let me know what you think (we can revert to a previous wiki revision if you like): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule
[13:07] <dpm> ah, too slow typing, he's gone :/
[13:20] <TLE> dpm: hey
[13:21] <TLE> I has to reboot, for some wierd reason my mouse sometimes behaves very strange
[13:21] <dpm> hi TLE, no worries, I just sent the feedback per e-mail, just in case
[13:22] <TLE> thanks for e-mailing it to me, I will have a look at in a little while, untill when are you here today
[13:22] <dpm> either 19:00 or 20:00, I think
[13:22] <TLE> ok great
[13:23] <dpm> :)
[13:31]  * dpm lunch
[14:15] <kamusin> Hola!
[14:17] <dpm> hola kamusin, como te va?
[14:29] <TLE> dpm: hey
[14:29] <dpm> hey TLE
[14:29] <TLE> i am looking at your comments now
[14:30] <TLE> changing to one week sound fine for me
[14:30] <TLE> and counting week in the first column ditto
[14:30] <TLE> same for the style
[14:31] <TLE> of the page
[14:31] <TLE> I can see that you have already made some of the corrections
[14:31] <dpm> great
[14:31] <TLE> I'm afraid however that you moved the wrong end of the interval, if it is still supposed to follow the schedule we made ;)
[14:32] <TLE> but thats a minor detail
[14:32] <dpm> It was probably my mistake, as I wasn't intending to change the original schedule
[14:33] <TLE> the week number + 2, 6, 12, 22, 35 and 43 refer to the week they should be released, not where the testing starts
[14:34] <dpm> oh, I see what you mean
[14:34] <dpm> then no, it wasn't my intention to change that
[14:34] <dpm> sorry
[14:35] <TLE> np, I'll change the dates and then hopefully we are done with the wiki version
[14:35] <dpm> ok, cool
[14:38] <TLE> actually for the first ones the dates were right but the week numbers off, at least the way I count it
[14:45] <TLE> dpm: I think for the one that arrives right after x-mas it makes sense to keep the 2 week schedule, upload for testing right before x-mas and release right after new years
[14:45] <dpm> TLE, yeah, I was actually looking at it now :)
[14:45] <dpm> I agree
[14:46] <dpm> yeah, feel free to correct what's necessary. I didn't check carefully the week numbers to match the dates, I just added the week numbers you had in the page with the previous layout to the first row/date
[14:53] <TLE> dpm: there we go, the week numbers seem to be differently aligned when they span several rows and when they don't, you wouldn't happen to know the syntax to fix it by heart?
[14:55] <dpm> TLE, vv
[14:55] <dpm> ||<|2> row cell 1 || row cell 2 ||
[14:55] <dpm> || row cell 2 ||
[14:55] <dpm> For a table with two rows
[14:56] <dpm> the first column spanning 2 rows
[14:57] <TLE> yes that's the markup to make it span, but how do I fix the alignment (row cell 1 is centered) but non spanning cells are left aligned
[14:57] <dpm> oh, alignment, sorry
[14:58] <dpm> no, I don't know then. Perhaps a bug in moin or in the Ubuntu wiki theme?
[14:58] <dpm> is the different alignment very obvious on the rendered page?
[14:59] <TLE> it is in my browser, have a look for your self, it is saved now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/NattyLanguagePackReleaseSchedule
[14:59] <TLE> anyway, I can search for it my self, I just thought maybe you knew the magic words
[15:00] <dpm> no, sorry :(
[15:01] <kamusin> bien gracias dpm y tu? :)
[15:01] <dpm> it looks fine (or non-obvious for me in FF, though) looking at it with chromium now
[15:01] <TLE> I'm using chrome
[15:02] <dpm> kamusin, bien, bien, tambien :)
[15:09] <TLE> dpm I figured it out: replace <|2> with <style="text-align: left;" |2> then it's all good
[15:10] <dpm> ah, so explicitly setting the alignment
[15:10] <TLE> dpm: yes, I don't know why i changes it when you merge cells, but this will work
[15:11] <TLE> other than that do we then agree that it is as it should be at this point?
[15:12] <dpm> Yeah, but let me have a final look to confirm
[15:15] <dpm> TLE, looks great. I think the +1 date might be a bit tight, but let's leave it as it is and refine it when we reach that point.
[15:17] <TLE> dpm: maybe, I actually I think it would be great if we could give a try, I think it is good to have it for those rare very ugly errors, but we'll see
[15:19] <TLE> ok then, it's about time to wrap it up, I'm getting thirsty and I can hear the friday bar calling me, so status is:
[15:20] <TLE> natty wiki version complete (for now), you e-mail me about the decision about the dates (all 3 of them) for the final lucid release and then I update the wiki page accordingly and then it is done
[15:20] <TLE> and after that I add both of them to the google calendar this weekend
[15:23] <dpm> TLE, oh yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm just saying that in that week we've got other things to do which require different people to be available, such as setting up the schedule for exports in LP, setting up the Natty PPA, etc., so this might get in the way of meeting the +1 deadline and push it to +2
[15:24] <dpm> TLE, great. Before you go, do you think you could update https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-community-n-translations-language-pack-updates-schedule with the actions that are done?
[15:25] <TLE> yes I agree :: yes I will update it
[15:25] <TLE> btw, about the lucid lang pack
[15:26] <TLE> I think it makes a lot of sense to make the lang pack update even if it does not get to go on the cd, and then just send it out as a regular update
[15:28] <TLE> just to make sure that all the final work that people have done on lucid will get sent out there, being a LTS and all
[15:29] <dpm> yes, I'll make sure we address that, even if it's just released slightly after .2 in -updates
[15:30] <TLE> yes :: you have a nice weekend
[15:31]  * TLE is off for a beer
[15:50] <dpm> TLE, you too! thanks!
[18:41] <kamusin> hello again, please could somebody tell me the name of package that have all description for an application (description for your language)? by the way,  is not debian/control file