[15:50] <nodie> hi
[15:51] <nodie> is there some upstart command for executing actions with a specific user ?
[15:55] <nodie> sudo -u ?
[21:04] <djszapi> hi KeyBuk :)
[21:57] <Keybuk> hi
[22:04] <djszapi> sup ?
[22:05] <Keybuk> not much...\
[22:09] <SpamapS> Keybuk: forgive me for assigning some new upstart (Ubuntu) bugs to upstart. I'm on a triaging mission. :-P
[22:10] <Keybuk> SpamapS: that's ok
[22:10] <Keybuk> you'll want to subscribe James to them, obviously
[22:10] <Keybuk> though he may be automatically
[22:11] <SpamapS> Yes indeed. I'm trying to whittle it down to actual bugs.. there's a lot of cruft.
[22:14] <Keybuk> I'll read them in a "will this be a problem in upstart2" kindof way
[22:15] <SpamapS> You know, Coit Tower isn't actually made of ivory... 
[22:15] <SpamapS> ;)
[22:15] <Keybuk> huh?
[22:16] <SpamapS> lame attempt to poke fun at your enviable position of being in charge of the rewrite
[22:16] <Keybuk> heh :)\
[22:17] <Keybuk> it's more that there's enough deep bugs in the design with good known fixes in 2 at this point that I find it hard to shift gears back to the existing design
[22:17] <Keybuk> and since I'm not being paid to develop Upstart to Ubuntu's timescales anymore, I have the luxury of focussing on 2 rather than bolting fixes onto 1 ;-)
[22:18] <SpamapS> Threw in a San Fran reference, just to make it that much more confusing. Thats what makes a good joke.. when you have to explain it to the smartest people you know. ;)
[22:18] <Keybuk> ah, but I live in San Jose technically ;-)
[22:19] <SpamapS> Where they do have ivory towers?
[22:19] <Keybuk> dunno, I've not been into San Jose since 1999
[22:19] <Keybuk> visiting Dustin at the Doubletree by the Airport on Monday doesn't count
[22:19] <SpamapS> No but seriously.. we're all excited to see it and I like that you can tell people to go stuff it until its done.
[22:19] <Keybuk> nor does visiting the Mercado Center
[22:20] <SpamapS> I like the ultra-slow light rail that goes between San Jose and Mountain View.. very fun to run along side it and wave to the passengers.
[22:20] <Keybuk> haha, yeah
[22:20] <Keybuk> my apartment is right by that
[22:20] <SpamapS> BTW have you run into Mathiaz? he's in DT SFO now
[22:21] <Keybuk> I take the Google Shuttle into Mountain View ;-)
[22:21] <Keybuk> no, I haven't
[22:23] <Keybuk> bug #707479 -> by design
[22:24] <SpamapS> oh?
[22:25] <Keybuk> likewise the fact that restart errors if it's not running
[22:25] <SpamapS> right, I think the restart command is broadly misunderstood
[22:25] <SpamapS> and I include myself in the group that misunderstands it
[22:25] <Keybuk> restart is exactly what it says
[22:25] <Keybuk> it restarts a running service
[22:25] <Keybuk> using the same configuration it is currently running with
[22:26] <SpamapS> I expect it to work like init.d scripts' restart .. which calls $0 stop ; $0 start  .. but its just a little bit different.
[22:26] <Keybuk> init.d scripts are massively variable on how they restart
[22:26] <Keybuk> some send signals
[22:26] <Keybuk> and others do call into themselves for stop and start
[22:26] <Keybuk> so for Upstart, I had to pick one behaviour
[22:27] <Keybuk> since you can just run "stop job ; start job" I decided having the other behaviour was more useful for restart
[22:27] <SpamapS> Would it make sense to add a note about it in man 5 init?
[22:28] <SpamapS> I think people will still misunderstand, but at least we can close the bug reports with RTFM.
[22:30] <Keybuk> sure, feel free to add a patch to document that ;-)
[22:31] <Keybuk> a good way of putting it
[22:31] <Keybuk> restart is a special command to restart a running service without changing its configuration
[22:31] <Keybuk> its intended for use when you're unsure whether or not someone may have altered the configuration file under you
[22:31] <Keybuk> and you want the existing job restarted (e.g. to enact a config change of its own) and not have it replaced by another
[22:32] <Keybuk> SpamapS: also can you do a bit of de-dupping if you're adding upstream tasks
[22:32] <Keybuk> e.g. 703800 and 568288 might be the same?
[22:34] <SpamapS> Keybuk: of course. Reading it, to me its not clear that they're duplicate, but I will most definitely take your word for it that they might be.
[22:34] <Keybuk> no, I haven't read them thoroughly
[22:34] <Keybuk> but since you're triaging, maybe worth a pass through
[22:34] <Keybuk> and at least a comment to say why you don't think they are, etc. :p
[22:34] <Keybuk> (hey, I get to pretend Ubuntu is terrible to upstreams :p)
[22:35] <SpamapS> No no, we care about you, Mr. Upstream... are you done fixing it? did you fix it yet? Fix it now.
[22:35] <Keybuk> patches welcome <g>
[22:36] <Keybuk> but first, sign my copyright assignment agreement please
[22:36] <Keybuk> it says you have to give me both copyright and ONE MILLION DOLLARS *pinky*
[22:37] <SpamapS> only a million? but this patch is priceless!
[22:37] <SpamapS> Oh wait, I'm giving you a million.. crap. This is almost as bad as trying to get patches into FreeBSD
[22:40]  * Keybuk gets bored of pressing ^D to boot
[22:48] <ion> keybuk: You might find this video about testing software with QuickCheck interesting. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4655369445141008672
[22:50] <Keybuk> QuickCheck?
[22:50] <Keybuk> does that involve Haskell?
[22:51] <ion> In that video, the Erlang implementation is used. There are implementations of it in multiple languages.
[22:55] <ion> In particular, the examples of real world bugs uncovered by QuickCheck that weren’t found with manually written unit tests are interesting.