[03:14] <charlie-tca> micahg: bit of help?
[03:14] <micahg> charlie-tca: sure
[03:14] <charlie-tca> Latest updates to natty removed firefox
[03:14] <charlie-tca> try to reinstall gives an error:
[03:15] <charlie-tca> the following packages have unmet dependencies: firefox: Depends: python-gtk2 but it is not going to be installed
[03:15] <charlie-tca> heh, bad?
[03:15] <micahg> sounds bad :)
[03:16] <charlie-tca> kind of without firefox now
[03:16] <charlie-tca> can't be just me?
[03:17] <micahg> charlie-tca: aptitude why-not firefox
[03:18] <charlie-tca> Unable to find a reason to remove firefox
[03:18] <charlie-tca> crap
[03:19] <ochosi> hey micahg 
[03:20] <micahg> hi ochosi
[03:20] <ochosi> you talked about gmusicbrowser or something?
[03:21] <charlie-tca> sure
[03:21] <ochosi> cause it seems i missed that piece :)
[03:21] <micahg> ochosi: yeah, I'm going to try to get it in Debian, 1.1.6, right?
[03:21] <ochosi> yeah cool
[03:21] <micahg> s/in/updated/
[03:21] <ochosi> how hard is it to update it once it's there?
[03:22] <ochosi> because currently i'm working hard on getting everything right for the natty release
[03:22] <ochosi> so right now might be a bit soon (even though everything is basically working)
[03:23] <micahg> ochosi: not hard once squeeze is released, as for Ubuntu updating, past feature freeze, anything more than bug fix releases need release team approval
[03:24] <charlie-tca> well, I guess this is an opportunity! I can test midori and epiphany 
[03:24] <ochosi> charlie-tca: i'm just installing the latest updates in natty, we'll see whether firefox stays here
[03:24] <charlie-tca> hm, this is 64bit, with the already lost nvidia-current, too
[03:25] <micahg> charlie-tca: trying to upgrade my chroot, seems to be happy, let's see what happens after install
[03:25] <charlie-tca> and that session menu bug found in testing bit me too
[03:26] <ochosi> micahg: right, about ubuntu's policy i kinda knew (that's why i really try to keep the deadline in focus), about debian i don't/didn't really know much
[03:26] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit is release team, isn't he?
[03:26] <micahg> ochosi: so, next week I should be able to get it uploaded, the multimedia team has plenty of sponsors
[03:27] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, he's probably a delegate like I am
[03:28] <charlie-tca> micahg: want a bug for the missing firefox?
[03:28] <micahg> chroot is busted :-/
[03:28] <charlie-tca> well, it would be an update-manager bug, missing guake too now
[03:28] <micahg> charlie-tca: ah, ok
[03:28] <charlie-tca> oh, and catfish went
[03:28] <ochosi> micahg: sounds really great! let me know if there's anything else you need!
[03:29] <micahg> ochosi: ok, thanks, you're an upstream dev for it, right?
[03:29] <charlie-tca> and I don't know what else
[03:29] <ochosi> charlie-tca: oh dear, i won't do this upgrade. it proposes thousands of kde-packages and removes ff, catfish etc
[03:29]  * charlie-tca did the upgrade and wishes he hadn't now
[03:30] <micahg> charlie-tca: does aptitude why-not python-gtk2 show anything?
[03:30] <ochosi> micahg: hm, well, i'm only a very small contributor. there's only one real dev (he kinda keeps this project to himself ;) )
[03:30] <micahg> ochosi: oh, ok, still good to have connections ;)
[03:30] <ochosi> micahg: i did some layout work, icons and a plugin
[03:30] <charlie-tca> Unable to find a reason to remove firefox
[03:30] <charlie-tca> no, instead of firefox, python-gtk2
[03:30] <ochosi> micahg: but i'm pretty much in daily or at least weekly touch with squentin (quentin sculo)
[03:31] <micahg> charlie-tca: hmm
[03:31] <charlie-tca> hm too. I am going to attempt to file this, I don't know if it will work with midori, though
[03:31] <micahg> charlie-tca: I forget how to get debug output from apt-get upgrade, but that would probably be helpful
[03:32] <ochosi> micahg: btw, you can also grab 1.1.6 from his git repo if you prefer pure upstream, in my version there's basically a different default layout and a few other small changes
[03:32] <charlie-tca> well, I can attach everything manually if I need to. I triage my share of these 
[03:33] <micahg> ochosi: yeah, I'll do that, are there not release tarballs?
[03:33] <ochosi> micahg: and i also don't wanna piss him off by superseeding his packages with mine...
[03:33] <micahg> oh, nm, there's a watch file
[03:33] <charlie-tca> yeah, update-manager is not a genuine package...
[03:33] <ochosi> charlie-tca: update-manager has the nasty habit of always killing my nm-applet during the update
[03:33] <micahg> charlie-tca: are you using a mirror or the main archive?
[03:34] <charlie-tca> main, I think
[03:34] <ochosi> same here
[03:36] <charlie-tca> hm, micahg lots of packages installed then removed by the update
[03:37] <charlie-tca> gimp, ibus-m17n, firefox, guake, gcompris, gnumeric, onboard, ibus- 
[03:38] <charlie-tca> 20 or more packages
[03:38] <micahg> sounds like the gtk stack is messed up
[03:38] <micahg> charlie-tca: maybe check in #ubuntu+1
[03:44] <charlie-tca> tried that.
[03:49] <ochosi> charlie-tca: oh dear, i really hope the resize-grip issue gets fixed soon in natty
[03:49] <ochosi> charlie-tca: it really looks pretty bad imo
[03:49] <ochosi> anyway, got to get some sleep now
[03:50] <ochosi> night everyone, see you!
[03:50] <micahg> ochosi: you should file bugs if you see some, I think most got fixed
[04:04] <charlie-tca> sorry, micahg. I guess firefox was the most visible one for me
[04:04] <micahg> charlie-tca: not a problem, wish I had a good answer, I'm going to blow away my chroot now since I broke it :)
[04:05] <charlie-tca> That's okay, you helped me find out how bad it really is.
[05:16] <charlie-tca> Okay, going to bed now.
[11:01] <ochosi> micahg: sure, sorry, i was just already pretty tired yesterday...
[11:12] <ochosi> hm, seems like the decision to move towards gmusicbrowser made the news already: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/gmusicbrowser-now-default-music-app-in-xubuntu-11-04/
[14:09] <charlie-tca> hm, is that a good thing or a bad thing to make it in OMG! Ubuntu now?
[14:10] <charlie-tca> those resize grips are not going away totally. they will be fixed if they interfere with buttons
[14:20] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[14:25] <mr_pouit> \o
[14:25] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: but who will fix them?
[14:26] <charlie-tca> What's his name, bratsche ?
[14:26] <charlie-tca> Some of the fixes are things like move the bottom scroll arrow up a tiny bit so the arrow is no longer hidden
[14:27] <charlie-tca> if it is an annoying button present, it won't happen
[14:27] <mr_pouit> well, I hope he has 96 hours/day, because he will have to try all gtk+ packages in the archive, and fix them if necessary
[14:27] <charlie-tca> They won't attempt to remove the buttons 
[14:28] <charlie-tca> They will fix the ones where the button covers things. firefox is an example, it is there. it will stay
[14:28] <mr_pouit> I guess they might fix packages when a bug is reported
[14:28] <mr_pouit> so packages from main mostly
[14:29] <charlie-tca> There is no reason to file a bug against every app, because it is not going to go away
[14:29] <mr_pouit> It is a good reason, because without the fix the app will look ugly
[14:29] <charlie-tca> Unless it actually interferes with something, it will be invalid
[14:30] <charlie-tca> ugly doesn't count. 
[14:31] <mr_pouit> how would you define the current look of xfdesktop then?
[14:31] <mr_pouit> if doesn't interfere with anything, there is only an ugly black area at the bottom of the wallpaper
[14:31] <charlie-tca> That one will get fixed, since it is a fixed size. But firefox has one, and it won't get touched
[14:32] <mr_pouit> fine if he fixes it
[14:32] <mr_pouit> I won't touch that anyway
[14:32] <charlie-tca> If they show up where they are useless, or interfere with a button, they fix it
[14:32] <mr_pouit> this is going to add a completely unneeded delta with upstream and debian
[14:32] <mr_pouit> and I won't be able to forward it
[14:33] <charlie-tca> the panel, the desktop, the covered scroll button
[14:33] <charlie-tca> I know. Ubuntu devs are supposed to be doing them
[14:35] <charlie-tca> we made webupd8 with gmusicbrowser too
[14:36] <charlie-tca> looks good, too. Publicity for Xubuntu, publicity for Shimmer! 
[16:24] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, the publicity machinery is working pretty well for us this release
[16:25] <ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, have you had contact with bratsche?
[16:25] <ochosi> charlie-tca: because if so, it would be great if you could ask him how we can theme those beasts (the resize-grips) if they're gonna be all over the place
[16:26] <ochosi> charlie-tca: and since the gtk2 approach doesn't work with gtk3 i really don't have a clue how it should work (gtk3 docu is not very helpful yet)
[16:28] <charlie-tca> I can ask him, yes.
[16:28] <ochosi> thanks, that would be great
[16:28] <charlie-tca> I will see what I can get out of him
[16:29] <ochosi> i worked a bit more on the theme lately, doing some improvements on xfwm4 and xfce4-notifyd
[16:29] <ochosi> i'll do a new release soon and let you know so you can test it
[16:29] <charlie-tca> great! just be sure to push me on it, so I don't forget
[16:29] <ochosi> okeydokey :)
[16:58] <ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, i pushed most of the changes i did to the theme now. feel free to grab/test it: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors/archive/tip.tar.gz
[16:58] <ochosi> charlie-tca: stuff that is still todo for xfwm is the "stick" button, apart from that it's final
[16:59] <ochosi> charlie-tca: it also picks up gtk colors now, so you can also use it with other themes and it'll integrate well
[17:00] <ochosi> k, have a nice weekend everyone!
[17:00] <ochosi> o/
[17:00] <charlie-tca> thanks
[17:14] <charlie-tca> installed latest greybird
[17:15] <charlie-tca> ochosi: can't change the background colors for orage, but that may not be your theme. I can't do it in raleigh either
[17:42] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, orage is still pretty buggy unfortunately. discussed that recently with mr_pouit, maybe we can make the clock-plugin provide the same functionality without the problems of orage
[17:43] <ochosi> yet another (really positive!) review from the german community (unfortunately in german though): http://blog.elektronik-projekt.de/
[17:43] <ochosi> oh, corrected link: http://blog.elektronik-projekt.de/2011/02/xubuntu-11-04-natty-narwhal-ein-einblick/
[17:45] <charlie-tca> okeydokey,
[17:45] <charlie-tca> Great! positive reviews are a good thing
[17:46] <charlie-tca> I think if orage is not going to work right, the clock plugin does tell time... 
[17:47] <ochosi> yeah, mr_pouit said that with a hidden option the clock plugin can start orage, so the functionality of opening the calendar would stay the same
[17:47] <ochosi> (and that's the main gain from that plugin imo)
[17:47] <ochosi> so we'll test it and then could discuss a switch to the clock-plugin in the next meeting
[17:48] <ochosi> TheSheep: sorry i didn't have time for you yet, the weekend is rather busy here, so maybe early next week?
[17:53] <TheSheep> ochosi: sure, no hurry, I'm rather busy too, thank you for your care
[17:54] <ochosi> TheSheep: no problem, i'm really happy to hear your feedback or discuss things
[17:54] <ochosi> k, now finally gotta go ;)
[17:54] <TheSheep> I wish I had answers instead of questions
[17:55] <ochosi> guess there are no "answers" (as in "final answers"), only process...
[22:00] <charlie-tca> Is this still true in Natty? Can we fix it? 
[22:00] <charlie-tca> You probably need to unmute pulseaudio
[22:00] <charlie-tca> It helpfully starts muted by default